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Copenhagen: Un Climate Conference-what To Expect?

What exactly is at stake and what should we expect from the conference?

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49 answers

Lets join hands and prevent this potentially catastrophic global warming. . . Even the racist crazy-heads are welcome to join too!

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Make of the following picture what you will . . .

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/

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More exposure to the Global Warming Scam . . . geez you have to know that something is very rotten if the notoriously biased Faux News and sometimes false news peddling news station known as Fox News now becomes the one trying to defend science and present the truth. . . things are really bad for Global Warming if Fox News starts taking a higher moral ground on that issue . . .

I also wish it was some other station that tries to present the Global Warming Scam . . . Fox News has a bad reputation hence most people would not realise that they are telling the truth on this occassion simply becuase of their own bad reputation.

Please be warned in advance that Fox News is also inserting their own propganda here and there in the videos shown below. . . so please do not believe everything you hear in these videos.

The main thing to take from this video is that: Science shows that Global Warming is a Fraud.

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/lqi7fxERiqk&feature=player_embedded[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/xnCLQIYNYgo&feature=player_embedded[/flash]

#

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/UisVhZHouq4&feature=player_embedded#[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/u1Pj6uWTgXM&feature=player_embedded[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/GWYuZs6Idb8&feature=related[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/9BTS3K9DFy0&feature=player_embedded[/flash]

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Piers Corbyn (a scientist)  ridicules Global Warming Scam supporters on television . . .

Listen, Watch and Learn and continue to see for yourself that Global Warming is a Fraud and Scam

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ZW5OjuB-o9Y&feature=channel[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/zM1VzC3d9ic&feature=channel[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/rd8C-do4LTA&feature=channel[/flash]

Global Warming is a Scam . . . do not be deceived.

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Oh Come on ! Global warming is obviously a scam.

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Global Warming Scam and its connection to the coming One World Government.

Watch and learn and understand and prevent yourself from perishing as a result of lack of knowledge.

KJV - Hosea Chapter 4

1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.

2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.a

3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.

5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.b

6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/pMxJG-Mu9dc

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/cJUZ-2QkkXg&feature=channel[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/fV-343c4Dnk&feature=channel[/flash]

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/MqfItSiG--E&feature=channel[/flash]

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You should be embarrassed to have FOX news as one of your sources.

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another summary of what is really going on . . . and why its an act of betrayal for an African to even consider being a part of it.

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/uP1Q-0fdkWI&feature=related[/flash]

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Don't start picking on us Goats.

We have long been convinced that the man made globel warming scam is nothing more than a way for rich men to make even more money at the expence of the rest of the world. Follow the money,

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Noathesim?? To the goats??

The goats will consider it an insult to their intelligence not least their hospitality.

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^^

Its not by force to be classified with crazy people like you, is it?

I want to save the planet and i can pitch my tent with whoever i want especially with those who share my concerns.

Take your rantings to the goats abeg.

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Afdrica fails to speak with one voice with Ato Malez Zenawi of Ethiopia considered a traitor for putting forth a position thought to havebeen crafted by France,

[url][/url]

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^^

Tell your deluded self anything so you can sleep well at night.

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Oh shut up!

Two days to go and we're still yet to agree on a deal. I wonder where crazy fools get their 'leaked' treaty from.

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And the song continues . . .

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@Topic

I hope legally binding deals on emission cut targets are reached at this summit but thats just wishful thinking.

The developed countries should lead the way because they contributed most to the present situation.

Under no circumstance should development of africa and other developing economies be compromised though.

To individuals out there, do your bit, get energy saving lightbulbs, unplug your chargers when not in use, avoid leaving your TV's, computers and other appliances on standby, plant a tree wherever possible, use high pressure showers, place a ball in your cistern of your toilet it helps reduce the water needed for a flush,, if you can afford it get solar panels. . . . . If everyone can do little things as this, it'll go a long way in saving the planet.

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more details of the scandal . .  . from the russian end . . .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235395/SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-Climate-change-emails-row-deepens--Russians-admit-DID-send-them.html

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more evidence . . .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235395/SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-Climate-change-emails-row-deepens--Russians-admit-DID-send-them.html

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Even scientists have come out to speak out against the whole Global Warming Scam . . .

http://www.petitionproject.org/

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You don't have time!! Jesus!!

There are two things about your evidence. It is all there and what one has to do is fish them out and paste them as you do. But really, this evidence is from data supplied by individuals and institutions that have interests in the debate if only to further their ideological considerations.

If you are sure of the data that you post, I want you to follow it up with sound arguments that because of one or two trend lines in the cycle of warmth and coldness of climes as presented, the following conclusions can be gleaned  and inference made.

What I have done is to pick one of the data you pasted giving a historical trajectory of the clime cycles the earth has gone through. Based on that alone, I wished to  first point out that there may be some truth with the cartographic presentation. Secondly and this is what I want us to pick up upon and address. for each warming cycle, what was the causation? For each successive clime did the causal factors remain the same or were there newer elements?

In other words can we say, with putative certainty that each cycle of global warming is uniformly similar to the antecedent ones or is it possible (probable is the right research word here) that each emergent cycle as a result of a newer element? In other words there is a repetition yes but with a singularity that may, as is the current phase, be contingent upon human factors?

If I were to wean your argument of the ideological ring you have laced it with, I will agree that the cycle may just be proof of a naturally occurring phenomenon? But what certainty is there based on your data that the global industrial craze is not unleashing upon us a period of warming a moment too soon.

So you can choose to ignore my question for all sorts of reasons but it still stands,

What causal percentage of the current warming is dues to carbon emissions as a variable and what portion is due to the naturally occurring cycle.

Don't post more data that you cannot digest. let us begin with this single question and use any info from the myriad links you have (in a fit of defensive irritation) marshaled to you defense. Okay

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enjoy more interesting Global Warming music . . . .

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/dpQXY4tWaoI&feature=player_embedded#[/flash]

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091212/ap_on_sc/climate_e_mails/print

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Now you are becoming hysterical. You are posting evidence to buttress your choice of which side to support on this account by using info matshalled by the same Euro-centric and Western sources you accuse proponents of global warming of having fallen captive to. Where is the logic. And how African are your sources if the Eurocetric-ness is for you the bane of the opposing views.

I asked a simple question by beginning with the issue of carbon emissions. rather than go on an overkill tirade you would first respond to that then we move on to the next item forming the building blocks of the global warming reality or lack thereof.

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Edit:

The information I have referenced earlier is enough to convince even the most fanatical global warming scam advocate. . . nevertheless I just came across this new video showing something similar to the other things i had earlier reference on this thread.

You would notice from the Video that the so called Global Warming is complete nonsense when compared to historical data as shown in the video . . .

LET HE WHO HAS AN EAR HEAR . . . ENOUGH OF ALL THIS EUROCENTRIC NEO-COLONIALISTIC ATTEMPT AT PUTTING EVERYONE INTO ECONOMIC SLAVERY VIA THE SCAM VEHICLE KNOWN AS GLOBAL WARMING.

[flash=400,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/DFbUVBYIPlI&feature=player_embedded[/flash]

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I have visited those sites and glanced and none even remotely answers the specific question I asked you about data on the history or lack thereof of carbon emissions circa the days of Abraham for instance.

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Here are a few sites where you can read what others think of Globel Warming.  My opinion is that it's a scam by the rich to get even richer. 

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2008/03/31/warming-island-another-global-warming-myth-exposed/

http://wattsupwiththat.com/

http://www.blog.speculist.com/archives/001668.html

http://www.free-eco.org/articleDisplay.php?id=294

http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/bellamy-one-must-ignore-200-years-of-observations-to-believe-in-agw-pjm-exclusive/

http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=128&Itemid=1

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090910_summerstats.html

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2009/01/blowing_holes_i.html

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-440049/Greenhouse-effect-myth-say-scientists.html

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=8172

http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+Basic+Greenhouse+Equations+Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8299079.stm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GB25Aa02.html

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Halllo

Do enlighten me on the data on carbon emissions into the atmosphere in 1100 BC compared to AD 2006. We could begin at that point.

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@NoAtheism.

people engaged in a debate don't shout like ill-mannered untethered children. Posting links does not constitute proof because in the current discourse on climate warming either side has a point to put across. For every link "of proof you put out there about the emails, I could more than equalize with contrary info so do not play righteous. On the Russian connection, you can be skeptical as you should when neutral issues such as climate are taken captive by ideological interest. That is the true mark of intelligence.

I asked you a simple question how the incremental emissions of carbon into the atmosphere in the wake of expanding global industrialization factors in the anti-global warming theory. You chose to be mute on that one.

So listen, stop being gratuitous as playing petulance and read some more: here is a much more recent link on the story and there are many more.

Were Russian security services behind the leak of 'Climategate' emails?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233562/Emails-rocked-climate-change-campaign-leaked-Siberian-closed-city-university-built-KGB.html#

By Will Stewart and Martin Delgado

Last updated at 1:29 PM on 06th December 2009

Suspicions were growing last night that Russian security services were behind the leaking of the notorious British ‘Climategate’ emails which threaten to undermine tomorrow’s Copenhagen global warming summit.

An investigation by The Mail on Sunday has discovered that the explosive hacked emails from the University of East Anglia were leaked via a small web server in the formerly closed city of Tomsk in Siberia.

The leaks scandal has left the scientific community in disarray after claims that key climate change data was manipulated in the run-up to the climate change summit of world leaders.

Sergei Kirpotin

Sergei Kirpotin of Tomsk University warned that the melting of the peat bogs in Siberia is 'an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climactic warming'

The row erupted when hundreds of messages between scientists at the university’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and their colleagues around the world were placed on the internet along with other documents.

The CRU is internationally recognised as one of the most important sources of information on the rise in global temperatures.

Its data is relied on by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the UN body which co-ordinates the world response to climate change.

But now the CRU’s findings are under suspicion.

The leaked emails appear to show that CRU director Professor Phil Jones and colleagues attempted to manipulate the figures and hide their raw data from researchers with opposing views.

Prof Jones has stepped aside from his post while claims are investigated that he wanted certain papers excluded from the United Nations’ next major assessment of climate science.

Russia – one of the world’s largest producers and users of oil and gas – has a vested interest in opposing sweeping new agreements to cut emissions, which will be discussed by world leaders in Copenhagen tomorrow.

Russia believes current rules are stacked against it, and has threatened to pull the plug on Copenhagen without concessions to Kremlin concerns.

The Mail on Sunday understands that the hundreds of hacked emails were released to the world via a tiny internet server in a red brick building in a snow-clad street in Tomsk.

v

The Tomsk office from which emails may have been leaked

The original internet link was quickly removed after the information spread from it like wildfire on to international websites.

A message written in English accompanied the leaked package of emails. It read: ‘We feel that climate science is too important to be kept under wraps.

'We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code and documents. Hopefully it will give some insight into the science and the people behind it.’

Climate-change sceptics in the West seized on the emails as evidence that the books were being cooked by the global-warming lobby.

Stories highlighting the ‘scandal’ began to appear from November 21, three or four days after the information was first released on to the server. Some of the leaked emails date back to March, 1996.

Tomcity – the server – and Tomline, its parent company, were unavailable for comment yesterday.

The firm offers an internet security business to prevent hacking and bugs and the ‘compromising of confidential information’.

Other divisions of the firm are involved in laying the cable which provides high-speed internet access to companies in the Siberian city.

The server is believed to be used mainly by Tomsk State University, one of the leading academic institutions in Russia, and other scientific institutes.

Computer hackers in Tomsk have been used in the past by the Russian secret service (FSB) to shut websites which promote views disliked by Moscow.

Such arrangements provide the Russian government with plausible deniability while using so-called ‘hacker patriots’ to shut down websites.

In 2002, Tomsk students were said to have launched a ‘denial of service’ attack at the Kavkaz-Tsentr portal, a site whose reports about Chechnya angered Russian officials.

The FSB office in Tomsk put out a special Press release saying that what the students had done was a legitimate ‘expression of their position as citizens, one worthy of respect’.

A Russian hacking specialist said last night: ‘There is no hard evidence that the hacking was done from Tomsk, though it might have been.

'There has been speculation the hackers were Russian. It appears to have been a sophisticated and well-run operation, that had a political motive given the timing in relation to Copenhagen.’

And gazeta.ru news website, having received information about the Tomsk server connection, said: ‘Presumably it was Russian hackers who broke into the servers of the university.’

The university said that there was strict security on its server, heightening the theory that an extremely sophisticated hacking operation was carried out to obtain it.

East Anglia University has gone out of its way to promote itself to students from the former Soviet Union. Its website says that 33 Russian students currently study there.

It is not known if they have fallen under suspicion as part of the police investigation.

Tomsk – 2,190 miles east of Moscow – was closed to foreigners during the Soviet era.

Its population of 630,000 includes the secret satellite city of Seversk, formerly known as Tomsk-7 and seven miles to the north, which houses strategic uranium and plutonium plants and remains shut to Westerners.

It was built in the Fifties by 20,000 prisoners from nearby Siberian labour camps.

Today, the city, and especially Seversk, remains closely monitored by the FSB, the successor security service to the Soviet-era KGB.

The city’s academic quarter – some of which uses the server that revealed the climate-change scandal – includes a leading world expert on the subject, Professor Sergei Kirpotin, a botanist of Tomsk University.

He was unavailable yesterday and has not commented on the email controversy.

Previously, in research with academic Judith Marquand from Oxford University, he warned of the risk of the release of billions of tons of methane gas because of the melting of the Siberian peat bogs, seen as being due to global warming.

Kirpotin described the situation as ‘an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming’.

Russia is the world’s third-largest emitter of greenhouse gases, and lags behind many Western countries in greening its industry.

However, its emissions plunged in the Nineties as its economy collapsed and it now sits on a treasure trove of unused carbon emission permits that could be sold to other countries.

These are due to expire in 2012 with the Kyoto Treaty. The Kremlin wants these to be rolled forward and last week signalled they would not sign a new deal without this, threatening the whole Copenhagen summit.

The crisis caused by the Climategate email row has resulted in the UK’s Met Office being forced to re-examine 160 years’ of climate data after admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made warming had been undermined by the leaks.

A new three-year analysis of the data will mean the Met Office – which works closely with Prof Jones’s unit – will not be able to declare with complete confidence the extent of global warming trends until the end of 2012.

The Norwich-based university has called in Sir Muir Russell, a former senior civil servant, to investigate the row, which is also the subject of a separate probe by the Information Commissioner’s Office.

Last night, news of the Kremlin connection coincided with Norfolk Police confirming to The Mail on Sunday that it was now ‘investigating criminal offences’ in relation to the data breach.

Norfolk police sources said they were working with ‘other agencies’ on the inquiry. But they were unable to say if these included the British security services MI5 and MI6.

This newspaper has established, however, that Scotland Yard computer experts from its Central e-Crime unit are helping Norfolk officers track down the hacker responsible for the leaks.

A Norfolk Police spokeswoman said last night: ‘Norfolk Constabulary can confirm that it is investigating criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia (UEA).’

The Mail on Sunday tracked down Professor Ross McKitrick, a world-renowned expert on the economic effects of climate change, who said Prof Jones had tried to stop his findings being published in an influential UN report.

Prof McKitrick concluded that Jones and his colleagues at the CRU had overstated the effects of greenhouse gas emissions on global temperatures by failing to take account of external factors linked to population growth and urbanisation.

The attempt to silence McKitrick was revealed in an email from Jones to a US colleague in 2004, when the UN was preparing for a major report by the IPCC.

After describing McKitrick’s findings as ‘garbage’ and dismissing another researcher’s work as inaccurate, Prof Jones wrote: ‘I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is! Cheers, Phil.’

‘Kevin’ is understood to refer to Dr Kevin Trenberth, a Jones ally and climate analyst at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado.

A spokesman for the University of East Anglia said last night: ‘A police inquiry is under way.’

Explore more:

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@NoAtheism.

people engaged in a debate don't shout like ill-mannered untethered children. Posting links does not constitute proof because in the current discourse on climate warming either side has a point to put across. For every link "of proof you put out there about the emails, I could more than equalize with contrary info so do not play righteous. On the Russian connection, you can be skeptical as you should when neutral issues such as climate are taken captive by ideological interest. That is the true mark of intelligence.

I asked you a simple question how the incremental emissions of carbon into the atmosphere in the wake of expanding global industrialization factors in the anti-global warming theory. You chose to be mute on that one.

So listen, stop being gratuitous as playing petulance and read some more: here is a much more recent link on the story and there are many more.

Were Russian security services behind the leak of 'Climategate' emails?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233562/Emails-rocked-climate-change-campaign-leaked-Siberian-closed-city-university-built-KGB.html#

By Will Stewart and Martin Delgado

Last updated at 1:29 PM on 06th December 2009

Suspicions were growing last night that Russian security services were behind the leaking of the notorious British ‘Climategate’ emails which threaten to undermine tomorrow’s Copenhagen global warming summit.

An investigation by The Mail on Sunday has discovered that the explosive hacked emails from the University of East Anglia were leaked via a small web server in the formerly closed city of Tomsk in Siberia.

The leaks scandal has left the scientific community in disarray after claims that key climate change data was manipulated in the run-up to the climate change summit of world leaders.

Sergei Kirpotin

Sergei Kirpotin of Tomsk University warned that the melting of the peat bogs in Siberia is 'an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climactic warming'

The row erupted when hundreds of messages between scientists at the university’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and their colleagues around the world were placed on the internet along with other documents.

The CRU is internationally recognised as one of the most important sources of information on the rise in global temperatures.

Its data is relied on by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the UN body which co-ordinates the world response to climate change.

But now the CRU’s findings are under suspicion.

The leaked emails appear to show that CRU director Professor Phil Jones and colleagues attempted to manipulate the figures and hide their raw data from researchers with opposing views.

Prof Jones has stepped aside from his post while claims are investigated that he wanted certain papers excluded from the United Nations’ next major assessment of climate science.

Russia – one of the world’s largest producers and users of oil and gas – has a vested interest in opposing sweeping new agreements to cut emissions, which will be discussed by world leaders in Copenhagen tomorrow.

Russia believes current rules are stacked against it, and has threatened to pull the plug on Copenhagen without concessions to Kremlin concerns.

The Mail on Sunday understands that the hundreds of hacked emails were released to the world via a tiny internet server in a red brick building in a snow-clad street in Tomsk.

v

The Tomsk office from which emails may have been leaked

The original internet link was quickly removed after the information spread from it like wildfire on to international websites.

A message written in English accompanied the leaked package of emails. It read: ‘We feel that climate science is too important to be kept under wraps.

'We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code and documents. Hopefully it will give some insight into the science and the people behind it.’

Climate-change sceptics in the West seized on the emails as evidence that the books were being cooked by the global-warming lobby.

Stories highlighting the ‘scandal’ began to appear from November 21, three or four days after the information was first released on to the server. Some of the leaked emails date back to March, 1996.

Tomcity – the server – and Tomline, its parent company, were unavailable for comment yesterday.

The firm offers an internet security business to prevent hacking and bugs and the ‘compromising of confidential information’.

Other divisions of the firm are involved in laying the cable which provides high-speed internet access to companies in the Siberian city.

The server is believed to be used mainly by Tomsk State University, one of the leading academic institutions in Russia, and other scientific institutes.

Computer hackers in Tomsk have been used in the past by the Russian secret service (FSB) to shut websites which promote views disliked by Moscow.

Such arrangements provide the Russian government with plausible deniability while using so-called ‘hacker patriots’ to shut down websites.

In 2002, Tomsk students were said to have launched a ‘denial of service’ attack at the Kavkaz-Tsentr portal, a site whose reports about Chechnya angered Russian officials.

The FSB office in Tomsk put out a special Press release saying that what the students had done was a legitimate ‘expression of their position as citizens, one worthy of respect’.

A Russian hacking specialist said last night: ‘There is no hard evidence that the hacking was done from Tomsk, though it might have been.

'There has been speculation the hackers were Russian. It appears to have been a sophisticated and well-run operation, that had a political motive given the timing in relation to Copenhagen.’

And gazeta.ru news website, having received information about the Tomsk server connection, said: ‘Presumably it was Russian hackers who broke into the servers of the university.’

The university said that there was strict security on its server, heightening the theory that an extremely sophisticated hacking operation was carried out to obtain it.

East Anglia University has gone out of its way to promote itself to students from the former Soviet Union. Its website says that 33 Russian students currently study there.

It is not known if they have fallen under suspicion as part of the police investigation.

Tomsk – 2,190 miles east of Moscow – was closed to foreigners during the Soviet era.

Its population of 630,000 includes the secret satellite city of Seversk, formerly known as Tomsk-7 and seven miles to the north, which houses strategic uranium and plutonium plants and remains shut to Westerners.

It was built in the Fifties by 20,000 prisoners from nearby Siberian labour camps.

Today, the city, and especially Seversk, remains closely monitored by the FSB, the successor security service to the Soviet-era KGB.

The city’s academic quarter – some of which uses the server that revealed the climate-change scandal – includes a leading world expert on the subject, Professor Sergei Kirpotin, a botanist of Tomsk University.

He was unavailable yesterday and has not commented on the email controversy.

Previously, in research with academic Judith Marquand from Oxford University, he warned of the risk of the release of billions of tons of methane gas because of the melting of the Siberian peat bogs, seen as being due to global warming.

Kirpotin described the situation as ‘an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming’.

Russia is the world’s third-largest emitter of greenhouse gases, and lags behind many Western countries in greening its industry.

However, its emissions plunged in the Nineties as its economy collapsed and it now sits on a treasure trove of unused carbon emission permits that could be sold to other countries.

These are due to expire in 2012 with the Kyoto Treaty. The Kremlin wants these to be rolled forward and last week signalled they would not sign a new deal without this, threatening the whole Copenhagen summit.

The crisis caused by the Climategate email row has resulted in the UK’s Met Office being forced to re-examine 160 years’ of climate data after admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made warming had been undermined by the leaks.

A new three-year analysis of the data will mean the Met Office – which works closely with Prof Jones’s unit – will not be able to declare with complete confidence the extent of global warming trends until the end of 2012.

The Norwich-based university has called in Sir Muir Russell, a former senior civil servant, to investigate the row, which is also the subject of a separate probe by the Information Commissioner’s Office.

Last night, news of the Kremlin connection coincided with Norfolk Police confirming to The Mail on Sunday that it was now ‘investigating criminal offences’ in relation to the data breach.

Norfolk police sources said they were working with ‘other agencies’ on the inquiry. But they were unable to say if these included the British security services MI5 and MI6.

This newspaper has established, however, that Scotland Yard computer experts from its Central e-Crime unit are helping Norfolk officers track down the hacker responsible for the leaks.

A Norfolk Police spokeswoman said last night: ‘Norfolk Constabulary can confirm that it is investigating criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia (UEA).’

The Mail on Sunday tracked down Professor Ross McKitrick, a world-renowned expert on the economic effects of climate change, who said Prof Jones had tried to stop his findings being published in an influential UN report.

Prof McKitrick concluded that Jones and his colleagues at the CRU had overstated the effects of greenhouse gas emissions on global temperatures by failing to take account of external factors linked to population growth and urbanisation.

The attempt to silence McKitrick was revealed in an email from Jones to a US colleague in 2004, when the UN was preparing for a major report by the IPCC.

After describing McKitrick’s findings as ‘garbage’ and dismissing another researcher’s work as inaccurate, Prof Jones wrote: ‘I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is! Cheers, Phil.’

‘Kevin’ is understood to refer to Dr Kevin Trenberth, a Jones ally and climate analyst at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado.

A spokesman for the University of East Anglia said last night: ‘A police inquiry is under way.’

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@NoAtheism.

People engaged in a debate don't shout like ill-mannered untethered children. Posting links does not constitute proof because in the current discourse on climate warming either side has a point to put across. For every link "of proof you put out there about the emails, I could more than equalize with contrary info so do not play righteous. On the Russian connection, you can be skeptical as you should when neutral issues such as climate are taken captive by ideological interest. That is the true mark of intelligence.

I asked you a simple question how the incremental emissions of carbon into the atmosphere in the wake of expanding global industrialization factors in the anti-global warming theory. You chose to be mute on that one.

So listen, stop being gratuitous as playing petulance and read some more: here is a much more recent link on the story and there are many more.

Were Russian security services behind the leak of 'Climategate' emails?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233562/Emails-rocked-climate-change-campaign-leaked-Siberian-closed-city-university-built-KGB.html#

By Will Stewart and Martin Delgado

Last updated at 1:29 PM on 06th December 2009

Suspicions were growing last night that Russian security services were behind the leaking of the notorious British ‘Climategate’ emails which threaten to undermine tomorrow’s Copenhagen global warming summit.

An investigation by The Mail on Sunday has discovered that the explosive hacked emails from the University of East Anglia were leaked via a small web server in the formerly closed city of Tomsk in Siberia.

The leaks scandal has left the scientific community in disarray after claims that key climate change data was manipulated in the run-up to the climate change summit of world leaders.

Sergei Kirpotin

Sergei Kirpotin of Tomsk University warned that the melting of the peat bogs in Siberia is 'an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climactic warming'

The row erupted when hundreds of messages between scientists at the university’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and their colleagues around the world were placed on the internet along with other documents.

The CRU is internationally recognised as one of the most important sources of information on the rise in global temperatures.

Its data is relied on by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the UN body which co-ordinates the world response to climate change.

But now the CRU’s findings are under suspicion.

The leaked emails appear to show that CRU director Professor Phil Jones and colleagues attempted to manipulate the figures and hide their raw data from researchers with opposing views.

Prof Jones has stepped aside from his post while claims are investigated that he wanted certain papers excluded from the United Nations’ next major assessment of climate science.

Russia – one of the world’s largest producers and users of oil and gas – has a vested interest in opposing sweeping new agreements to cut emissions, which will be discussed by world leaders in Copenhagen tomorrow.

Russia believes current rules are stacked against it, and has threatened to pull the plug on Copenhagen without concessions to Kremlin concerns.

The Mail on Sunday understands that the hundreds of hacked emails were released to the world via a tiny internet server in a red brick building in a snow-clad street in Tomsk.

v

The Tomsk office from which emails may have been leaked

The original internet link was quickly removed after the information spread from it like wildfire on to international websites.

A message written in English accompanied the leaked package of emails. It read: ‘We feel that climate science is too important to be kept under wraps.

'We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code and documents. Hopefully it will give some insight into the science and the people behind it.’

Climate-change sceptics in the West seized on the emails as evidence that the books were being cooked by the global-warming lobby.

Stories highlighting the ‘scandal’ began to appear from November 21, three or four days after the information was first released on to the server. Some of the leaked emails date back to March, 1996.

Tomcity – the server – and Tomline, its parent company, were unavailable for comment yesterday.

The firm offers an internet security business to prevent hacking and bugs and the ‘compromising of confidential information’.

Other divisions of the firm are involved in laying the cable which provides high-speed internet access to companies in the Siberian city.

The server is believed to be used mainly by Tomsk State University, one of the leading academic institutions in Russia, and other scientific institutes.

Computer hackers in Tomsk have been used in the past by the Russian secret service (FSB) to shut websites which promote views disliked by Moscow.

Such arrangements provide the Russian government with plausible deniability while using so-called ‘hacker patriots’ to shut down websites.

In 2002, Tomsk students were said to have launched a ‘denial of service’ attack at the Kavkaz-Tsentr portal, a site whose reports about Chechnya angered Russian officials.

The FSB office in Tomsk put out a special Press release saying that what the students had done was a legitimate ‘expression of their position as citizens, one worthy of respect’.

A Russian hacking specialist said last night: ‘There is no hard evidence that the hacking was done from Tomsk, though it might have been.

'There has been speculation the hackers were Russian. It appears to have been a sophisticated and well-run operation, that had a political motive given the timing in relation to Copenhagen.’

And gazeta.ru news website, having received information about the Tomsk server connection, said: ‘Presumably it was Russian hackers who broke into the servers of the university.’

The university said that there was strict security on its server, heightening the theory that an extremely sophisticated hacking operation was carried out to obtain it.

East Anglia University has gone out of its way to promote itself to students from the former Soviet Union. Its website says that 33 Russian students currently study there.

It is not known if they have fallen under suspicion as part of the police investigation.

Tomsk – 2,190 miles east of Moscow – was closed to foreigners during the Soviet era.

Its population of 630,000 includes the secret satellite city of Seversk, formerly known as Tomsk-7 and seven miles to the north, which houses strategic uranium and plutonium plants and remains shut to Westerners.

It was built in the Fifties by 20,000 prisoners from nearby Siberian labour camps.

Today, the city, and especially Seversk, remains closely monitored by the FSB, the successor security service to the Soviet-era KGB.

The city’s academic quarter – some of which uses the server that revealed the climate-change scandal – includes a leading world expert on the subject, Professor Sergei Kirpotin, a botanist of Tomsk University.

He was unavailable yesterday and has not commented on the email controversy.

Previously, in research with academic Judith Marquand from Oxford University, he warned of the risk of the release of billions of tons of methane gas because of the melting of the Siberian peat bogs, seen as being due to global warming.

Kirpotin described the situation as ‘an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming’.

Russia is the world’s third-largest emitter of greenhouse gases, and lags behind many Western countries in greening its industry.

However, its emissions plunged in the Nineties as its economy collapsed and it now sits on a treasure trove of unused carbon emission permits that could be sold to other countries.

These are due to expire in 2012 with the Kyoto Treaty. The Kremlin wants these to be rolled forward and last week signalled they would not sign a new deal without this, threatening the whole Copenhagen summit.

The crisis caused by the Climategate email row has resulted in the UK’s Met Office being forced to re-examine 160 years’ of climate data after admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made warming had been undermined by the leaks.

A new three-year analysis of the data will mean the Met Office – which works closely with Prof Jones’s unit – will not be able to declare with complete confidence the extent of global warming trends until the end of 2012.

The Norwich-based university has called in Sir Muir Russell, a former senior civil servant, to investigate the row, which is also the subject of a separate probe by the Information Commissioner’s Office.

Last night, news of the Kremlin connection coincided with Norfolk Police confirming to The Mail on Sunday that it was now ‘investigating criminal offences’ in relation to the data breach.

Norfolk police sources said they were working with ‘other agencies’ on the inquiry. But they were unable to say if these included the British security services MI5 and MI6.

This newspaper has established, however, that Scotland Yard computer experts from its Central e-Crime unit are helping Norfolk officers track down the hacker responsible for the leaks.

A Norfolk Police spokeswoman said last night: ‘Norfolk Constabulary can confirm that it is investigating criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia (UEA).’

The Mail on Sunday tracked down Professor Ross McKitrick, a world-renowned expert on the economic effects of climate change, who said Prof Jones had tried to stop his findings being published in an influential UN report.

Prof McKitrick concluded that Jones and his colleagues at the CRU had overstated the effects of greenhouse gas emissions on global temperatures by failing to take account of external factors linked to population growth and urbanisation.

The attempt to silence McKitrick was revealed in an email from Jones to a US colleague in 2004, when the UN was preparing for a major report by the IPCC.

After describing McKitrick’s findings as ‘garbage’ and dismissing another researcher’s work as inaccurate, Prof Jones wrote: ‘I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is! Cheers, Phil.’

‘Kevin’ is understood to refer to Dr Kevin Trenberth, a Jones ally and climate analyst at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado.

A spokesman for the University of East Anglia said last night: ‘A police inquiry is under way.’

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I have carefully written and posted a rejoinder twice to your misplaced righteousness two postings above. For some reason each time I press to post I get a statement that the thread is locked. When I raise a simple statement such as this, it goes through. Until such a time that I am able to get my rejoinder through, I will assume non existence of you two last postings okay? A dialogue has to be a dialogue-twain and twain.

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So i beg you in the name of the Creator of Heaven and Earth . . . do not come at me with the "Russian" thingy . . .

- Its your choice and decision to believe in Global Warming . . . however what i would please like you to stop is to please not even attempt to discredit something that was confirmed to be true (yes I am talking about the hacked emails which you tried to discredit with your statement).

This would most probably be my last response to your post on this thread . . . cus I am really sick and tired of seeing people dogmatically following the Global Warming nonsense . . .even though raw scientific data contradicts goes against it.

HAVE A GOOD DAY.

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On another note . . . please check the following diagrams to see how criminally intended data manipulation was done just to justify the Global Warming Scam . . .

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Why is the moderator locking out my rejoinder in this topic

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No Atheism.

[people engaged in a debate don't shout like ill-mannered untethered children. Posting links does not constitute proof because in the current discourse on climate warming either side has a point to put across. For every link "of proof you put out there about the emails, I could more than equalize with contrary info so do not play righteous. On the Russian connection, you can be skeptical as you should when neutral issues such as climate are taken captive by ideological interest. That is the true mark of intelligence.

I asked you a simple question how the incremental emissions of carbon into the atmosphere in the wake of expanding global industrialization factors in the anti-global warming theory. You chose to be mute on that one.

So listen, stop being gratuitous as playing petulance and read some more: here is a much more recent link on the story and there are many more.

Were Russian security services behind the leak of 'Climategate' emails?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233562/Emails-rocked-climate-change-campaign-leaked-Siberian-closed-city-university-built-KGB.html#

By Will Stewart and Martin Delgado

Last updated at 1:29 PM on 06th December 2009

Suspicions were growing last night that Russian security services were behind the leaking of the notorious British ‘Climategate’ emails which threaten to undermine tomorrow’s Copenhagen global warming summit.

An investigation by The Mail on Sunday has discovered that the explosive hacked emails from the University of East Anglia were leaked via a small web server in the formerly closed city of Tomsk in Siberia.

The leaks scandal has left the scientific community in disarray after claims that key climate change data was manipulated in the run-up to the climate change summit of world leaders.

Sergei Kirpotin

Sergei Kirpotin of Tomsk University warned that the melting of the peat bogs in Siberia is 'an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climactic warming'

The row erupted when hundreds of messages between scientists at the university’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and their colleagues around the world were placed on the internet along with other documents.

The CRU is internationally recognised as one of the most important sources of information on the rise in global temperatures.

Its data is relied on by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the UN body which co-ordinates the world response to climate change.

But now the CRU’s findings are under suspicion.

The leaked emails appear to show that CRU director Professor Phil Jones and colleagues attempted to manipulate the figures and hide their raw data from researchers with opposing views.

Prof Jones has stepped aside from his post while claims are investigated that he wanted certain papers excluded from the United Nations’ next major assessment of climate science.

Russia – one of the world’s largest producers and users of oil and gas – has a vested interest in opposing sweeping new agreements to cut emissions, which will be discussed by world leaders in Copenhagen tomorrow.

Russia believes current rules are stacked against it, and has threatened to pull the plug on Copenhagen without concessions to Kremlin concerns.

The Mail on Sunday understands that the hundreds of hacked emails were released to the world via a tiny internet server in a red brick building in a snow-clad street in Tomsk.

v

The Tomsk office from which emails may have been leaked

The original internet link was quickly removed after the information spread from it like wildfire on to international websites.

A message written in English accompanied the leaked package of emails. It read: ‘We feel that climate science is too important to be kept under wraps.

'We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code and documents. Hopefully it will give some insight into the science and the people behind it.’

Climate-change sceptics in the West seized on the emails as evidence that the books were being cooked by the global-warming lobby.

Stories highlighting the ‘scandal’ began to appear from November 21, three or four days after the information was first released on to the server. Some of the leaked emails date back to March, 1996.

Tomcity – the server – and Tomline, its parent company, were unavailable for comment yesterday.

The firm offers an internet security business to prevent hacking and bugs and the ‘compromising of confidential information’.

Other divisions of the firm are involved in laying the cable which provides high-speed internet access to companies in the Siberian city.

The server is believed to be used mainly by Tomsk State University, one of the leading academic institutions in Russia, and other scientific institutes.

Computer hackers in Tomsk have been used in the past by the Russian secret service (FSB) to shut websites which promote views disliked by Moscow.

Such arrangements provide the Russian government with plausible deniability while using so-called ‘hacker patriots’ to shut down websites.

In 2002, Tomsk students were said to have launched a ‘denial of service’ attack at the Kavkaz-Tsentr portal, a site whose reports about Chechnya angered Russian officials.

The FSB office in Tomsk put out a special Press release saying that what the students had done was a legitimate ‘expression of their position as citizens, one worthy of respect’.

A Russian hacking specialist said last night: ‘There is no hard evidence that the hacking was done from Tomsk, though it might have been.

'There has been speculation the hackers were Russian. It appears to have been a sophisticated and well-run operation, that had a political motive given the timing in relation to Copenhagen.’

And gazeta.ru news website, having received information about the Tomsk server connection, said: ‘Presumably it was Russian hackers who broke into the servers of the university.’

The university said that there was strict security on its server, heightening the theory that an extremely sophisticated hacking operation was carried out to obtain it.

East Anglia University has gone out of its way to promote itself to students from the former Soviet Union. Its website says that 33 Russian students currently study there.

It is not known if they have fallen under suspicion as part of the police investigation.

Tomsk – 2,190 miles east of Moscow – was closed to foreigners during the Soviet era.

Its population of 630,000 includes the secret satellite city of Seversk, formerly known as Tomsk-7 and seven miles to the north, which houses strategic uranium and plutonium plants and remains shut to Westerners.

It was built in the Fifties by 20,000 prisoners from nearby Siberian labour camps.

Today, the city, and especially Seversk, remains closely monitored by the FSB, the successor security service to the Soviet-era KGB.

The city’s academic quarter – some of which uses the server that revealed the climate-change scandal – includes a leading world expert on the subject, Professor Sergei Kirpotin, a botanist of Tomsk University.

He was unavailable yesterday and has not commented on the email controversy.

Previously, in research with academic Judith Marquand from Oxford University, he warned of the risk of the release of billions of tons of methane gas because of the melting of the Siberian peat bogs, seen as being due to global warming.

Kirpotin described the situation as ‘an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming’.

Russia is the world’s third-largest emitter of greenhouse gases, and lags behind many Western countries in greening its industry.

However, its emissions plunged in the Nineties as its economy collapsed and it now sits on a treasure trove of unused carbon emission permits that could be sold to other countries.

These are due to expire in 2012 with the Kyoto Treaty. The Kremlin wants these to be rolled forward and last week signalled they would not sign a new deal without this, threatening the whole Copenhagen summit.

The crisis caused by the Climategate email row has resulted in the UK’s Met Office being forced to re-examine 160 years’ of climate data after admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made warming had been undermined by the leaks.

A new three-year analysis of the data will mean the Met Office – which works closely with Prof Jones’s unit – will not be able to declare with complete confidence the extent of global warming trends until the end of 2012.

The Norwich-based university has called in Sir Muir Russell, a former senior civil servant, to investigate the row, which is also the subject of a separate probe by the Information Commissioner’s Office.

Last night, news of the Kremlin connection coincided with Norfolk Police confirming to The Mail on Sunday that it was now ‘investigating criminal offences’ in relation to the data breach.

Norfolk police sources said they were working with ‘other agencies’ on the inquiry. But they were unable to say if these included the British security services MI5 and MI6.

This newspaper has established, however, that Scotland Yard computer experts from its Central e-Crime unit are helping Norfolk officers track down the hacker responsible for the leaks.

A Norfolk Police spokeswoman said last night: ‘Norfolk Constabulary can confirm that it is investigating criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia (UEA).’

The Mail on Sunday tracked down Professor Ross McKitrick, a world-renowned expert on the economic effects of climate change, who said Prof Jones had tried to stop his findings being published in an influential UN report.

Prof McKitrick concluded that Jones and his colleagues at the CRU had overstated the effects of greenhouse gas emissions on global temperatures by failing to take account of external factors linked to population growth and urbanisation.

The attempt to silence McKitrick was revealed in an email from Jones to a US colleague in 2004, when the UN was preparing for a major report by the IPCC.

After describing McKitrick’s findings as ‘garbage’ and dismissing another researcher’s work as inaccurate, Prof Jones wrote: ‘I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is! Cheers, Phil.’

‘Kevin’ is understood to refer to Dr Kevin Trenberth, a Jones ally and climate analyst at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado.

A spokesman for the University of East Anglia said last night: ‘A police inquiry is under way.’

Explore more:

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233562/Emails-rocked-climate-change-campaign-leaked-Siberian-closed-city-university-built-KGB.html##ixzz0ZEtMQMMq

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Newbie

http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/?p=1557

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No Atheism

The leaked emails are a Russian design to counter any changes that might cap emission rates. They only tell part of the story.

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Well the name comes from the children's tale, "Billy Goat Gruff."  As I can sometimes be counted on to be a Gruff old man.  I think the problem is that there are way more politician than there are smart people to fill the positions available.  Therefore, we elect and chose people who appeal physically to us rather than people who are the most suited for the job.  We tend to want our leader to be Handsome and dashing rather than deep thinkers who are well read but perhaps a bit ugly.

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Billy Goat

What a name

At some point, one has to seriously consider the array of covert ways through which the West, doubling up as the North tries to maintain power asymmetries into perpetuity. Recalling Friedman's The World is Flat, it is expected that the equalizing processes of the global community as carried out through the UN and other unilateral agencies, is not what the industrialized North wishes for and so such a conspiracy is to be expected.

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The chart and supportive arguments are a strong testament to the so called natural climatic cycles in recorded human history. On that score, I lack the confidence for an equally informed rebuttal-at least for now. What I wish to know from you is whether or not the cycles you graphically present above were, at any one time, interrupted by the injection into the atmosphere of such vast quantities of carbon emissions as obtains in the current dispensation. Is it possible that the sense of immediacy of global warming is contingent upon a new element injected into Earth's atmosphere in unprecedented proportion. If so , does it render the substance of the data you present null?

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Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after 'Danish text' leak

Developing countries react furiously to leaked draft agreement that would hand more power to rich nations, sideline the UN's negotiating role and abandon the Kyoto protocol

The UN Copenhagen climate talks are in disarray today after developing countries reacted furiously to leaked documents that show world leaders will next week be asked to sign an agreement that hands more power to rich countries and sidelines the UN's role in all future climate change negotiations.

The document is also being interpreted by developing countries as setting unequal limits on per capita carbon emissions for developed and developing countries in 2050; meaning that people in rich countries would be permitted to emit nearly twice as much under the proposals.

The so-called Danish text, a secret draft agreement worked on by a group of individuals known as "the circle of commitment" – but understood to include the UK, US and Denmark [where's Russia?] – has only been shown to a handful of countries since it was finalised this week.

The agreement, leaked to the Guardian, is a departure from the Kyoto protocol's principle that rich nations, which have emitted the bulk of the CO2, should take on firm and binding commitments to reduce greenhouse gases, while poorer nations were not compelled to act. The draft hands effective control of climate change finance to the World Bank; would abandon the Kyoto protocol – the only legally binding treaty that the world has on emissions reductions; and would make any money to help poor countries adapt to climate change dependent on them taking a range of actions.

The document was described last night by one senior diplomat as "a very dangerous document for developing countries. It is a fundamental reworking of the UN balance of obligations. It is to be superimposed without discussion on the talks".

A confidential analysis of the text by developing countries also seen by the Guardian shows deep unease over details of the text. In particular, it is understood to:

• Force developing countries to agree to specific emission cuts and measures that were not part of the original UN agreement;

• Divide poor countries further by creating a new category of developing countries called "the most vulnerable";

• Weaken the UN's role in handling climate finance;

• Not allow poor countries to emit more than 1.44 tonnes of carbon per person by 2050, while allowing rich countries to emit 2.67 tonnes.

Developing countries that have seen the text are understood to be furious that it is being promoted by rich countries without their knowledge and without discussion in the negotiations.

"It is being done in secret. Clearly the intention is to get [Barack] Obama and the leaders of other rich countries to muscle it through when they arrive next week. It effectively is the end of the UN process," said one diplomat, who asked to remain nameless.

Antonio Hill, climate policy adviser for Oxfam International, said: "This is only a draft but it highlights the risk that when the big countries come together, the small ones get hurting. On every count the emission cuts need to be scaled up. It allows too many loopholes and does not suggest anything like the 40% cuts that science is saying is needed."

Hill continued: "It proposes a green fund to be run by a board but the big risk is that it will run by the World Bank and the Global Environment Facility [a partnership of 10 agencies including the World Bank and the UN Environment Programme] and not the UN. That would be a step backwards, and it tries to put constraints on developing countries when none were negotiated in earlier UN climate talks."

The text was intended by Denmark and rich countries to be a working framework, which would be adapted by countries over the next week. It is particularly inflammatory because it sidelines the UN negotiating process and suggests that rich countries are desperate for world leaders to have a text to work from when they arrive next week.

Few numbers or figures are included in the text because these would be filled in later by world leaders. However, it seeks to hold temperature rises to 2C and mentions the sum of $10bn a year to help poor countries adapt to climate change from 2012-15.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text

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Why are they scared of the debate? the whole global warming project has been religionised to the extend opposer s are treated as extremist, I remember when 30 thousand scientists (9,000 PHD inclusive) sued for an open debate and they were turned down. Hm this is indeed another conspiracy theory,

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Is Global Warming a Fraud - YES

Is Earth's Climate changing - YES

Why is it changing - NATURAL CYCLE THAT HAS SIGNIFICANTLY LITTLE OR NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMANS

Do you mean it also changed even when we did not have the kind of technologies we have today - YES

Is Sea level possibly rising - YES

Who is causing it - NO

Is it Humans - NO

What is causing it - THE SUN

What is the evidence for this - CLIMATE CHANGE IS ALSO OCCURING ON A FEW OTHER PLANETS IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM AND THERE ARE SCIENTIFIC DATA COLLECTED AS REGARDS THE EFFECT OF THE SUN

Is there evironmental pollution - YES

Is pollution the same thing as Global Warming - NO 

So why is there Global Warming Conference - CAUSE ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY I.E. CARBON TAX AND ITS ALSO A MEANS TO STIFFLE THE DEVELOPMENT OF MOST NON-EUROPEAN DOMINATED COUNTRIES.

Is Global Temperatures increasing - NO IT IS NOT INCREASING

Is the email scandal about Global Warming true - YES IT IS

So what is the big deal about the email scandal - ITS A BIG DEAL CUS THE LOCATION OF THE EMAIL SCANDAL IS ALSO THE SAME LOCATION PROVIDING A SIGNIFICANT SOURCE OF THE DATA USED TO SUPPORT GLOBAL WARMING.

Are there simple ideas about Global Temperature variation - YES

http://www.longrangeweather.com/

http://www.longrangeweather.com/global_temperatures.htm

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Newbie

Didn't you hear of the leaked email document that proves the so-called scientist actually knew earth is getting cooler? This is just another scientific myth. I will get back to you tomorrow

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Newbie

Hey ! forget about that Copenhagen summit global warming is all fraud.

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@NoAtheism.

people engaged in a debate don't shout like ill-mannered untethered children. Posting links does not constitute proof because in the current discourse on climate warming either side has a point to put across. For every link "of proof you put out there about the emails, I could more than equalize with contrary info so do not play righteous. On the Russian connection, you can be skeptical as you should when neutral issues such as climate are taken captive by ideological interest. That is the true mark of intelligence.

I asked you a simple question how the incremental emissions of carbon into the atmosphere in the wake of expanding global industrialization factors in the anti-global warming theory. You chose to be mute on that one.

So listen, stop being gratuitous as playing petulance and read some more: here is a much more recent link on the story and there are many more.

Were Russian security services behind the leak of 'Climategate' emails?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233562/Emails-rocked-climate-change-campaign-leaked-Siberian-closed-city-university-built-KGB.html#

By Will Stewart and Martin Delgado

Last updated at 1:29 PM on 06th December 2009

Suspicions were growing last night that Russian security services were behind the leaking of the notorious British ‘Climategate’ emails which threaten to undermine tomorrow’s Copenhagen global warming summit.

An investigation by The Mail on Sunday has discovered that the explosive hacked emails from the University of East Anglia were leaked via a small web server in the formerly closed city of Tomsk in Siberia.

The leaks scandal has left the scientific community in disarray after claims that key climate change data was manipulated in the run-up to the climate change summit of world leaders.

Sergei Kirpotin

Sergei Kirpotin of Tomsk University warned that the melting of the peat bogs in Siberia is 'an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climactic warming'

The row erupted when hundreds of messages between scientists at the university’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and their colleagues around the world were placed on the internet along with other documents.

The CRU is internationally recognised as one of the most important sources of information on the rise in global temperatures.

Its data is relied on by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the UN body which co-ordinates the world response to climate change.

But now the CRU’s findings are under suspicion.

The leaked emails appear to show that CRU director Professor Phil Jones and colleagues attempted to manipulate the figures and hide their raw data from researchers with opposing views.

Prof Jones has stepped aside from his post while claims are investigated that he wanted certain papers excluded from the United Nations’ next major assessment of climate science.

Russia – one of the world’s largest producers and users of oil and gas – has a vested interest in opposing sweeping new agreements to cut emissions, which will be discussed by world leaders in Copenhagen tomorrow.

Russia believes current rules are stacked against it, and has threatened to pull the plug on Copenhagen without concessions to Kremlin concerns.

The Mail on Sunday understands that the hundreds of hacked emails were released to the world via a tiny internet server in a red brick building in a snow-clad street in Tomsk.

v

The Tomsk office from which emails may have been leaked

The original internet link was quickly removed after the information spread from it like wildfire on to international websites.

A message written in English accompanied the leaked package of emails. It read: ‘We feel that climate science is too important to be kept under wraps.

'We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code and documents. Hopefully it will give some insight into the science and the people behind it.’

Climate-change sceptics in the West seized on the emails as evidence that the books were being cooked by the global-warming lobby.

Stories highlighting the ‘scandal’ began to appear from November 21, three or four days after the information was first released on to the server. Some of the leaked emails date back to March, 1996.

Tomcity – the server – and Tomline, its parent company, were unavailable for comment yesterday.

The firm offers an internet security business to prevent hacking and bugs and the ‘compromising of confidential information’.

Other divisions of the firm are involved in laying the cable which provides high-speed internet access to companies in the Siberian city.

The server is believed to be used mainly by Tomsk State University, one of the leading academic institutions in Russia, and other scientific institutes.

Computer hackers in Tomsk have been used in the past by the Russian secret service (FSB) to shut websites which promote views disliked by Moscow.

Such arrangements provide the Russian government with plausible deniability while using so-called ‘hacker patriots’ to shut down websites.

In 2002, Tomsk students were said to have launched a ‘denial of service’ attack at the Kavkaz-Tsentr portal, a site whose reports about Chechnya angered Russian officials.

The FSB office in Tomsk put out a special Press release saying that what the students had done was a legitimate ‘expression of their position as citizens, one worthy of respect’.

A Russian hacking specialist said last night: ‘There is no hard evidence that the hacking was done from Tomsk, though it might have been.

'There has been speculation the hackers were Russian. It appears to have been a sophisticated and well-run operation, that had a political motive given the timing in relation to Copenhagen.’

And gazeta.ru news website, having received information about the Tomsk server connection, said: ‘Presumably it was Russian hackers who broke into the servers of the university.’

The university said that there was strict security on its server, heightening the theory that an extremely sophisticated hacking operation was carried out to obtain it.

East Anglia University has gone out of its way to promote itself to students from the former Soviet Union. Its website says that 33 Russian students currently study there.

It is not known if they have fallen under suspicion as part of the police investigation.

Tomsk – 2,190 miles east of Moscow – was closed to foreigners during the Soviet era.

Its population of 630,000 includes the secret satellite city of Seversk, formerly known as Tomsk-7 and seven miles to the north, which houses strategic uranium and plutonium plants and remains shut to Westerners.

It was built in the Fifties by 20,000 prisoners from nearby Siberian labour camps.

Today, the city, and especially Seversk, remains closely monitored by the FSB, the successor security service to the Soviet-era KGB.

The city’s academic quarter – some of which uses the server that revealed the climate-change scandal – includes a leading world expert on the subject, Professor Sergei Kirpotin, a botanist of Tomsk University.

He was unavailable yesterday and has not commented on the email controversy.

Previously, in research with academic Judith Marquand from Oxford University, he warned of the risk of the release of billions of tons of methane gas because of the melting of the Siberian peat bogs, seen as being due to global warming.

Kirpotin described the situation as ‘an ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming’.

Russia is the world’s third-largest emitter of greenhouse gases, and lags behind many Western countries in greening its industry.

However, its emissions plunged in the Nineties as its economy collapsed and it now sits on a treasure trove of unused carbon emission permits that could be sold to other countries.

These are due to expire in 2012 with the Kyoto Treaty. The Kremlin wants these to be rolled forward and last week signalled they would not sign a new deal without this, threatening the whole Copenhagen summit.

The crisis caused by the Climategate email row has resulted in the UK’s Met Office being forced to re-examine 160 years’ of climate data after admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made warming had been undermined by the leaks.

A new three-year analysis of the data will mean the Met Office – which works closely with Prof Jones’s unit – will not be able to declare with complete confidence the extent of global warming trends until the end of 2012.

The Norwich-based university has called in Sir Muir Russell, a former senior civil servant, to investigate the row, which is also the subject of a separate probe by the Information Commissioner’s Office.

Last night, news of the Kremlin connection coincided with Norfolk Police confirming to The Mail on Sunday that it was now ‘investigating criminal offences’ in relation to the data breach.

Norfolk police sources said they were working with ‘other agencies’ on the inquiry. But they were unable to say if these included the British security services MI5 and MI6.

This newspaper has established, however, that Scotland Yard computer experts from its Central e-Crime unit are helping Norfolk officers track down the hacker responsible for the leaks.

A Norfolk Police spokeswoman said last night: ‘Norfolk Constabulary can confirm that it is investigating criminal offences in relation to a data breach at the University of East Anglia (UEA).’

The Mail on Sunday tracked down Professor Ross McKitrick, a world-renowned expert on the economic effects of climate change, who said Prof Jones had tried to stop his findings being published in an influential UN report.

Prof McKitrick concluded that Jones and his colleagues at the CRU had overstated the effects of greenhouse gas emissions on global temperatures by failing to take account of external factors linked to population growth and urbanisation.

The attempt to silence McKitrick was revealed in an email from Jones to a US colleague in 2004, when the UN was preparing for a major report by the IPCC.

After describing McKitrick’s findings as ‘garbage’ and dismissing another researcher’s work as inaccurate, Prof Jones wrote: ‘I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is! Cheers, Phil.’

‘Kevin’ is understood to refer to Dr Kevin Trenberth, a Jones ally and climate analyst at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado.

A spokesman for the University of East Anglia said last night: ‘A police inquiry is under way.’

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