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Is George Bush Destroying What America Stands For?

George Bush is making a mockery of what the USA represents. Every day, as I'm browsing the net, I read about his attempts to do various things in the USA that even Nigerians will recognize as absolutely ridiculous and evil. And yet Americans re-elected this guy. I don't get it! Thanks to him, we can't really look up to America anymore.

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I have to agree with almost everyone here.Bush happens to be one of- if not the- most incompetent president in the history of the United states.Thanks to him and his fellow neo-cons, iraq and the middle-east as a whole is in a big mess,the US has far more enemies than friends, and the world is far less safe because he's the very best reason Al-qaeda's having a recruitment boom.The funny thing is that although the US currently owes China trillions of dollars in debt, he still goes on to borrow more.And to do what?That's right;he pours in more many into defence and the wars in afghanistan and iraq,while the health service, education, and other infrastructures are rotting away.

I still can't believe that the population voted TWICE for him .But hey,it's their country going down the drain, not mine.

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very interesting topic

Guess Bush got his administrative skills from Aso Rock

maybe if America gets another 8 years from another guy like Bush they go turn Nigeria

hahahaha

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Let me propose an alternative topic:

Is Isreal responsible for Zimbabwe's collapse?

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Did Israel Lead the US into the War on Iraq?

By Mitchell Plitnick, Director of Education and Policy, Jewish Voice for Peace; Joel Beinin, Professor of Middle East Studies at Stanford University; and Cecilie Surasky, Director of Communications, Jewish Voice for Peace

As the war on Iraq rages on with no end in sight, the scandals around its beginnings continue to proliferate. Because of these scandals, one question now being revisited is the role the state of Israel may have played in initiating the invasion of Iraq.

Israel's role is debated whenever American policy in the Middle East is discussed. This is inevitable, because Israel is America’s key ally in the region and because the Israel-Palestine conflict is the focal point of attention for virtually anyone who cares about the Mideast. Some critics of the war on Iraq maintain that the decision to go to war was made largely to advance Israeli interests. Others maintain that Israel had nothing to do with it. The evidence suggests, however, that neither of these views is accurate.

The neocons and Israeli support for the war

We know that the Iraq invasion was pushed forcefully by the neo-conservatives in the Bush Administration. Many of the neocons are Jewish, though not all of them. But when it comes to US Mideast policy, there is virtually no disagreement among them in relying on a powerful Israel as a key component. This, in and of itself, would fly in the face of the notion that Israel and Israeli interests were completely removed from the decision to invade Iraq.

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A number of key figures among the neocon wing of the Bush Administration were involved in writing an advisory paper for the Netanyahu government in 1996 entitled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm”. This paper listed removing Saddam Hussein from power as an “an important Israeli strategic objective.” It defies logic to believe that the same people, in their push toward war on Iraq, simply didn’t think about this. Writers involved in the “Clean Break” paper included Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, David and Meyrav Wurmser and James Colbert. All of them were powerful proponents, in and out of government, for the war on Iraq.

Israeli support for the invasion was never a secret. Both the Sharon government and a clear majority of the Israeli populace favored attacking Iraq. A Guardian (UK) report on the undermining of US intelligence agencies in order to provide “evidence” to support the invasion describes how Americans working outside the CIA worked with Israelis operating outside of the Mossad to help produce that “evidence.”Reports before the war indicated that Israel was playing a key role in preparing for the invasion, and other reports indicate that Israeli operatives have been working among Iraqi Kurds.

Against the idea of a war for Israel

But all of this is a far cry from proving that this was a “war for Israel.” While the results of the war don’t necessarily shed light on the intentions of the planners, the fact is that Israel’s position in the region is less secure as a result of the Iraq war, as many of us predicted. Some believed before the war that Israel would use the cover of the war to expel Palestinians from the West Bank en masse, but this never materialized. But the war has only increased mistrust in the United States’ ability to honestly broker the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the fact that the US allowed Sharon to count the unilateral disengagement from Gaza as being part of the “Roadmap” is perceived as an American agreement that Israel may impose facts and call it a “peace process.” The increase in both the number and the organization of terrorist groups like al Qaeda also increases the risk to Israel. Whatever gains Israel has made in advancing its policies in the Occupied Territories and the larger Middle East in the past three years have not come as a result of the war on Iraq, but despite it. (For views on this across the spectrum, see http://www.amconmag.com/2005/2005_11_07/article.html

http://www.juancole.com/2004/06/situation-in-iraq-acutely-threatens.html

The “Clean Break” paper, which is the cornerstone of the “war for Israel” theory, focuses on the idea of Israel as an independent actor. Where toppling Saddam is one point among many, promoting an independently-acting Israel is a major theme of the paper. Although constant lobbying to maintain and even increase aid to Israel is a permanent face of Middle East politics in America, the Israeli right, for whom the “Clean Break” paper was written, has always sought to move away from American aid so that Israel could act on its own, without having to worry about Washington’s reaction. Having America intervene so powerfully on Israel’s behalf flies in the face of one of the “Clean Break” paper’s central tenets, strongly implying that the decision to invade Iraq, though contemplated by these very same people, was not a primary way of advancing the goals set forth in the paper. Israel’s position was certainly not ignored by the neocon planners of the Iraq war; but the war does not advance the vision promoted in the paper.

Further, while many may see George W. Bush as a figurehead whose advisers are really determining policy, few see Dick Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld that way, and they were the clear ringleaders beating the drums for war on Iraq. They may define America’s “interests” differently from most of us, but do we really believe that they have put the interests of Israel before what they see as American interests? And, if protection of Israel was not the prime motivation for the war, then what American interests were thought of as being served by it?

What matters are US interests

Oil is both the obvious and correct answer; specifically, American control over the region’s oil resources, which also motivates many policymakers’ support for Israel. It also motivates other policymakers’ urging greater American distance from Israel. The neocons, on the other hand, are ideologically supportive of Israel, as well as strategically, but this does not dictate all of their politics.

In a February 14, 2003 article in Foreign Policy in Focus, Michael Renner describes in detail just how huge the oil stakes were in Iraq and how big a difference for the US a client government replacing Saddam Hussein would make. The impact would be enormous, both for big oil companies and for many individuals connected to them in the Bush Administration. This is a much more obvious and clear reason for the war than Israeli interests. Berkeley political scientist Peter Dale Scott runs down a list of the geo-political and financial potential of US control over Iraq, as well as some of the challenges the US faced from nationalized oil and competition from the euro that framed the decision to go to war. These are just two of many sources that document a case, based on hard evidence, for why America went to war.

One major problem with the oil analysis is that it doesn’t bother to consider the question of Israel. The same problem is mirrored on the other side—those advancing the “war for Israel” theory either ignore or dismiss other arguments. That’s the sort of environment in which conspiracy theories flourish. Israel has always been a special concern of the United States, for strategic reasons, and so has oil. Any explanation for why we went to war in Iraq has to address the consideration of these two most important factors in American Middle East policy.

Perhaps Michael Kinsley, writing for slate.com, put it best: “The president's advisors, Jewish and non-Jewish, are patriotic Americans who sincerely believe that the interests of America and Israel coincide. What's more, they are right about that, though they may be wrong about where that shared interest lies. Among Jewish Americans, including me, there are people who hold every conceivable opinion about war with Iraq with every variation of intensity, including passionate opposition and complete indifference.”

Or there is Juan Cole’s summation: “Most of the members of Cheney's inner circle were neoconservative ideologues, who combined hawkish American triumphalism with an obsession with Israel. This does not mean that the war was fought for Israel, although it is undeniable that Israeli concerns played an important role. The actual motivation behind the war was complex, and Cheney's team was not the only one in the game. The Bush administration is a coalition of disparate forces -- country club Republicans, realists, representatives of oil and other corporate interests, evangelicals, hardball political strategists, right-wing Catholics, and neoconservative Jews allied with Israel's right-wing Likud party. Each group had its own rationale for going to war with Iraq.”

As usual, neither extreme is correct. Nothing involving the US and the Middle East happens without consideration, if not the actual involvement, of Israel. Israel is always a factor in American strategy in the region, both as a tool and ally and as a friend whose interests are a concern. For some in policymaking positions, Israel’s interests are America’s interests—not because they favor Israel, but because they believe (quite incorrectly, we would contend) that America’s interests are best served by having their staunchest ally as the dominant force in the region.

The decision to invade Iraq was motivated by many factors. These included the fact that the relationship with Saudi Arabia was shaken by 9/11, a desire for more direct control over Iraqi oil (and the untapped reserves, which are thought by some to be the largest in the world), concern over the direction Latin American oil producers were going (particularly Venezuela), the feeling that the first Gulf War left “unfinished business” and the propaganda uses in terms of the “war on terror”, among others. Israeli desires were certainly a factor, as was the perception that the invasion of Iraq would advance Israeli interests. Israel’s lobbyists here in the US were understated in their support for the war, possibly because they knew it would go through without much effort on their part, but certainly were supportive of it. On a number of levels, Israel was a factor in the disastrous decision to invade Iraq. But to say it was the major or decisive factor is enormously out of line with the evidence. Iraq was a war for American interests as perceived by those who have the power to make those decisions. It was not a “war for Israel".

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_237.shtml

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I'm ready to bet at least 1 million naira that Giuliani (or any Republican) will not win the presidential ticket come 2008.

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After all said and done,

Exit: President Bush administration

Enter: President Giuliani administration

This debate will blur into the past; and déjà vu will turn into reality

Only a few identify the workings right now.

The rest (majority) will understand in November 2008.

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Perharps the low rating of the democratic led congress is brought on by the fact they can not achieve anything without a 2/3rd majority for which they need some republicans to overide our less than averagely intelligent president George W Bush.

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http://rawstory.com/news/2007/General_claims_Bush_gave_marching_orders_1022.html

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King George Bush is good world leader. He kill only 600,000 iraq people, but bring good democracy. He destroy Electricity, but will build back. He destroy plenty bridge, but will build back and he bomb water water company but will build back.

King George Bush have great love for Iraq people. Allahu Akbar!

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@Easyy,

Tell them make dem hear.

Meanwhile, no let the likes of Davidylan, I-man/4Play (na the same person, e dey use multiple IDs) and TayoD read this thing wey you write because na trouble dem go carry come.

Bush has made the US more vulnerable and hated because of his lies and olodeness.

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The antics of George Bush are the reasons I have lost respect for Americans as a people. If such a man is able to manipulate their minds so much and blind them with fear, then they are not smart.

George Bush uses scare tactics to hold the American people in his grip. In the process, he has led several thousands of people to untimely deaths and rendered several other thousand lives hopeless.

He is a man on a vendetta that I can only describe as one designed to destroy the world. If there is no conflict, he creates one from his dangerous mind and pitches it with the help of his media savvy aides.

I grew up loving America and everything America stood for but in recent years, I have lost all of that respect for American leadership. They are always quick to point to the eradication of Saddam as the pointer for success. They never refer to the several thousand lives that have been lost as a result of their invasion. They dont refer to the several families that have been decimated as a result of their greedy invasion. They never refer to how much more hatred they have helped to stoke up around the world as a result of their invasion.

George Bush is the worst human being I have ever had to see on earth.

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http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/American-Investment-Iraq-t8548.html

Some interesting figures coming out of the White House.

Since 2003 the US. has spent 20 billion dollars ( Yes Billion) on efforts to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure.

Medical: only eight of of 142 planned primary health-care centers are currently open.

And pricey equipment is misused or not used at all.

Oil and Gas: Oil output is down 25% from the last quarter of 2006 because of repairs to a key offshore terminal. Iraq has missed every production since 2004. By the end of 2006, it was still not enough fuel to heat its homes.

Water: projects are unfinished because of security problems.

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@Seun,

I want to thank you for bringing our attention to the issue of George Bush, the worst president the US has ever had.

Some may say this has little to do with Nigeria, however, in a world of global interconnectivity, one fool's action can cause serious harm to millions far away.

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Blessings of Allah be on King George Bush. He use his Jihad, bring us peace, bring us hope, bring us happiness. May Allah give him the courage to do in other country.

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thats why i gbadun dem roman empire, they would have destroyed the whole middle east, america is been restricted bt the silly UN AND those crazy geneva convention war law/

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abi o davidylan. yeah, they might have brought out that underground thing used on Hiro and Naga

or made latest one to rain on Middle East.

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They should thank their lucky stars america abides by conventions if not fire and brimstone would have been raining down on the middle east ever since.

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I love George Bush. He bring peace and democracy to Iraq. Allahu Akbar!

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america is now weak in the eye of the world, vulnerable like never before, if dem hit us again! ma guy i dey carry ma bag go canada

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Apparently,US journalists are more likely,nearly 9 in 10,to be left-leaning(Democrat sympathisers) than right-wing(Republican)-http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113485

The pattern of donations, with nearly nine out of 10 giving to Democratic candidates and causes, appears to confirm a leftward tilt in newsrooms — at least among the donors, who are a tiny fraction of the roughly 100,000 staffers in newsrooms across the nation.

Confidence in the Democrat controlled Congress has fallen to historic lows-http://blogs.usatoday.com/gallup/2007/06/what_do_hmos_an.html

Just 14% of Americans have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in Congress.

This 14% Congressional confidence rating is the all-time low for this measure, which Gallup initiated in 1973. The previous low point for Congress was 18% at several points in the period of time 1991 to 1994.

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Bush can't destroy what America Stands for. America's checks & balances system wouldn't allow him the necessary power(s) he needs to do so.

By the way, what does America stand for?

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Funny how many Benin city-based people are more worried about Bush's approval ratings than Americans. Wonder what Obasanjo's approval ratings were before he quit.

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@mamajam,

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/05/11/bushs-approval-ratings/

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Our favorite topic is back again! Abeg, I can't do it anymore. Just 2 weeks on Nairaland and I don slim down. Please, whether Bush is good or Bush is bad, thank God he's not president of Nigeria.

What worries me though is this new friendship America is extending to Nigeria. A lot of people haven't noticed yet, but US has removed Nigerias name from the list of countries with Piracy issues (ie piracy has significantly reduced), US does not include Nigeria and India on its human trafficking list. But this is not the crazy part yet. CNN resumes reporting Nigerian weather they even report fair weather at the Lagos Airport! Then go to the CIA page on Nigeria, it's been updated; they have a very subtle views of Nigeria right now.

Where is all this love coming from? Or should I say WHY?!

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impressive with the gradual decline in his approval ratings. The democratic debate last night proof that Republican won't win come 2008. democrates are united and strong in criticizing Bush with all his cowbow policies

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Proof that September 9/11 is only reason why George Bush is still President:

http://www.madanddangerous.co.uk/goto/151/2

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What about The U.S.A P.A.T.R.I.O.T Act (Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism)

The name sounds sweet shey? Go and read what is inside it. And guess who signed it into law? In fact guess who forwarded it in the first place?

By the way, the PATRIOT Act makes provision for domestic terrorism. Shebi DOMESTIC TERRORISM sounds horrifying. Well, it is simply defined by the act as terrorism carried out by us citizens. The act thereafter broadly defines domestic terrorism to include protests and lawful disobedience. So next time you see that your kind hearted, never-hurt-a-fly neighbour get arrested, be shocked all right but try to follow the case and maybe you'll find out that all she did was send a mail to somebody condemning George Bush, which the CIA now intercepted and read. Thanks to their CIA program and other right-snatching laws by George Bush.

At least in Nigeria, I can call my neighbour and say Nuclear Missile, Biological Weapon, Jihad, Airplane, Allah, Assassinate, Al Qaeda, Israel and have phone intimacy without anybody listening in or worst still getting arrested.

Patriot my bum. If supporting this kind of law make me a patriot, then I'd rather be rebel, nay, an Al Qaeda spy or even a full blown terrorist.

By the way, I don't think daviddylan got banned for just insulting people, the problem was accompanying it with statements like NO MORE TALIBAN! Don't you guys know that in Nigeria today people quote information from Nairaland in all spheres of life? And they don't take the information gotten here with a pinch of salt. Do you want people to go around saying they've confirmed that there is no more Taliban when the truth is that the Taliban is killing more innocent people right now than they ever needed to even when they were in power?

I would tell you that George Bush is not only destroying what America stands for, but GEORGE BUSH IS DESTROYING AMERICA. It is only because America had developed so much that he can come in and destroy and it is only slightly visible.

Give him a country like Nigeria that was already destroyed by 1999.

1) He would have attacked Cameroun over Bakassi not minding what the world court said.

2)He would have turned liberia upsidedown ie putting Liberia in worse situation than where it was during Charles Taylor.

3) Driven out all the investors from China.

And by the way, there are three major causes of the rise in fuel prices in America which I know. 2 of the causes are squarely on Bush and the 3rd is the Niger-Delta crises. George Bush caused the price of crude oil to rise due to this war on Iraq / threat on Iran / cutting down imports from Saudi. Then he went on messing up the economy with his tax rebates and other economic policies. Where were you when the dollar was depreciating and George Bush said it didn't really matter and that it might actually be good for the economy? He doesn't even know the difference between depreciation and devaluation of currency. The fact that China's yuan is devalued and their economy is leasing rapidly, That Bush man thought that if the dollar depreciates, there'll be an economic boom in the US.

This is a man that destroyed 4 profitable companies consecutively before entering Government and you expect him not to destroy. Anyway, I think this war on Afghanistan and Iraq is a good thing for America because if Bush had not found somewhere to destroy outside America, he would have destroyed inside.

By the way, on the issue of corruption, anybody who doesn't see anything wrong with what Paul Wolferwitz did must be doing the same.

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I-man accusing someone of being mendacious?

You will do well as a comedian. Lol

When I asked for Bush's achievement he came with unproven economic facts and figures.

Of the 20 achievements he gave, 13 were to do with the US economy. After reading it you would be forgiven for thinking this topic was about Bush's economic policy. How do you have an informed debate with people who constantly spins the thread away from the main topic?

Is George Bush Destroying What America Stands For?

77% Europeans think so

80% of the middle east think so

I don't have the figures for Asia and the rest of the world, I know this however.

Over 15 million people protested against George Bush on the same day. I doubt if any US president will ever be able to conjure so much hatred.

Is George Bush Destroying What America Stands For? Yes he is, the world says so.

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I got fed up with the abuse and the condescending attitude that was becoming the norm when America or Israel was a topic of debate.

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@I-man

Why all your attempts to place specific location on wrong doing? Why this whole obsession with geography?

When I stated that US is now detaining people without trial, you said no. They were not being held in the US. They are in Guantanamo. And you claim I don't understand simple geography. The secret CIA detention centres from which they are being transported to Guantanamo, where are they? Are they located in Heaven? And what difference does it make? The fact that George Bush ordered detentions on the Cuban bay area, does that mean that it's Castro that detained the inmates? What has location got to do with abuse of human rights?

Then people are being killed and Molested in Sudan with no change and you're telling me; No there's change. The killing and Molesting is no more in the south. They've now relocated to the west all thanks to the effort of the US president George Bush.

It's like telling me there are no more area boys in Ikeja, most of them have now moved to Ajah area killing, rioting and looting. Tinubu has achieved a lot.

Incidences of fraud and 419 on Nigerians has reduced. Fraudsters are now targeting Americans and Europeans through the internet, so lets clap for OBJ.

Does the relocation of a crime make it any less heinous?

Oh I was slapping you on your left cheek, now am slapping you on your right. So that calls for celebration? Please get real.

On the issue of Cheney shooting his hunting partner, my question is that if there was no wrong doing, why was there an attempt to hush the matter?

In fact why didn't the Vice President's partner shoot him, why is it the Vice President that had to shoot his hunting partner? Does he have a monopoly on making mistakes? The man donated $1000 to the Bush/Cheney, a paltry $1000 and he had the audacity to come and pressure Cheney for favours. The Vice President just couldn't hold his anger anymore and unleashed pellets into him.

And please don't be asking me for links. SEARCH! type: Cheney Whittington Ballistics

put it on the google search bar and click search. The various lies I've told in here, take some specific words from them and search on google. Click the links that appear from objective websites such as BBC. They are not proBUSH and they're not antiBUSH.

If you don't know something say you don't know don't just decide that any data outside the scope of your knowledge is false.

So have you now read the "Military Commissions Act of 2006"?

Have you researched the "CIA Program"

what about the John Warner Defence Authorization Act"?

Please, I know these are long tiring documents, but you have to read them to know what state these laws have placed the US.

Read these documents carefully as I have. Do not skip any parts. These are legal documents and the reason legal documents are always so long is so that ordinary people will not want to read them and that is how people sell off their rights without knowing. Just because of laziness to read and understand laws that are passed on them. The same method used by music and record labels to enslave artistes and by sports teams to buy over players' lives. Is what has been used to enslave people in the US.

1) The Military Commissions Act is to deal with foreigners. Mind you it makes provisions for the arrest and indefinite detention of "lawful foreign citizens" that means you! minding your business trying to make a decent living for yourself, George Bush has created an avenue for you to be arrested and detained indefinitely.

2) The Defence Authorization Act is to deal with US citizens that challenge or try to oppose the ill-treatment of the foreigners. It makes provisions for "Combatant Citizens" to be arrested and detained indefinitely. Mind you, a combatant citizen includes an unarmed protester.

These laws are not enacted for play. George Bush knows the effect that protesters had in ending the Vietnam war. So now there's the Defence Authorization Act allows for those protesters to be put away indefinitely without trial, without bail, indefinitely.

These two acts also determine that when trials are finally carried out, they should be in the form of court martials. The defendant only allowed to use a military lawyer, or a lawyer certified by the military. That is if and when they feel you should go for trial.

The word indefinitely keeps appearing in the Acts: "Detained Indefinitely" or "Habeas Corpus suspended Indefinitely".

Now indefinitely does not mean for the mean time. It mean up to 99 years and above. So it could be 2 hours, it could be 6 years, 87 years or till death do you out. By the way, if you're found to be innocent, the act takes away your right to sue!

How can you want to say rights have not been depleted? Is it till you see Hausa MOPOL men with koboko in the middle of New York flogging reporters and citizens before you know that human rights have depleted.

From the way George Bush ignores the Congress and waives the will of the people, you should know he has acquired some new powers that were not there before. Was this how previous presidents operated in the US? Even Bush senior wasn't this dictatorial and totalitarian.

By the way what's your idea of a dictator? Some of you have a mental picture of a dictator as a chubby african leader in military uniform.

A dictator is a leader who has personal ideas and makes sure they are realized despite the agreement or disagreement of the rest of the populace. Can we see an example of this in the recent plan to build up troops in Iraq? You be the judge.

Unemployment levels during the last year of Clinton's tenure in 1999 was 4.1% compared to George Bush's best which current figure is 4.5% this figure just came in from the Bureau of Labour Statistics on Friday June 1st but is Bush's 4.5% better than Clinton's 4.1%?

Type: True US unemployment statistics figures.

I am not happy with all this Bush laundering O! I'm not happy at all.

Lastly, how can you ask me to paste links for you. If I did that, I'll be trying to restrict your reading to only those websites that fully support my view. For God sake there is GOOGLE. Take some search words from my assertions and search the entire internet. You'll find different views and be the judge. I can't paste links that are bias. While browsing, I saw a website: www.bushlies.com I didn't even bother to click on it. So I will not try to put blinders on you. I'm not George Bush.

And stop trying to pass me off as a savage that just came at you with insults. After my initial posts, you called me an oaf, a lie and also ignorant. You even recall that after your first insult I tried to make peace with you. There is a reason why I don't take your quotes and glare them over and over again.

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Yes Denex,spoonfeed me with links.The burden of proof lies solely with the person making a claim.That concept might be alien to you but that is how civilised debates are conducted.Otherwise anyone can claim anything.If these claims you make can be verified by simply using google,why don't you put up links here.I have done that several times myself.

You still haven't produced links for the following lies:   

-that the latest US unemployment rate is not really 4.5%.

-that Bush is falsifying the numbers

- that Cheney shot his hunting partner deliberately

- that US growth rate is not 3.3% in real terms.

- that Bush ordered  the doctoring of satelitte photos

-That most of the US casualties in Iraq  are South American immigrants

-That some of the casualties have not reached the legal age of watching Indecency(18 years)

-

I just chose a few for you to prove.Your shameless mendacity is mind numbing.Prove us wrong by providing evidence of the claims you make

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By Jove! David Dylan, was theorising about saving $20,000 which he planned to come to Nigeria and take advantage of the N142 to $1 rate. Please.

If he can deny what he just said, then I don't see how difficult it'd be for him to deny what Bush said.

And he said I'm trying to hoodwink him into thinking what?

said North Korea had a deal with the Clinton government in 1994 to halt nuclear research.

I said George Bush's threat made them start pursuing Nuclear POWER. ie caused them to abandon the Clinton deal and he's accusing me of tricks. Which level?

Hailing George Bush for allowing women vote in the CHAMBER OF COMMERCE and I'm to acknowledge that as a monumental achievement of George Bush. know that a chamber of is a CLUB of companies in a sector of business?

Not the right to vote in a presidential election and bring an end to a neverending monarchy, not the right to vote in governorship election, not in a local government election, I'm supposed to acknowledge Saudi women voting in chambers of commerce as a groundbreaking achievement? No! I won't do it.

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By Jove! David Dylan, was theorising about saving $20,000 which he planned to come to Nigeria and take advantage of the N142 to $1 rate. Please.

If he can deny what he just said, then I don't see how difficult it'd be for him to deny what Bush said.

And he said I'm trying to hoodwink him into thinking what?

said North Korea had a deal with the Clinton government in 1994 to halt nuclear research.

I said George Bush's threat made them start pursuing Nuclear POWER. ie caused them to abandon the Clinton deal and he's accusing me of tricks. Which level?

Hailing George Bush for allowing women vote in the CHAMBER OF COMMERCE and I'm to acknowledge that as a monumental achievement of George Bush. know that a chamber of is a CLUB of companies in a sector of business?

Not the right to vote in a presidential election and bring an end to a neverending monarchy, not the right to vote in governorship election, not in a local government election, I'm supposed to acknowledge Saudi women voting in chambers of commerce as a groundbreaking achievement? No! I won't do it.

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It is sad that some people get very upset when America or Israel is being challenged in this forum. This has greatly diminished the quality of the debate on this thread that I stayed away for a few days.

I think Admin intervention is good now and again.

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visit www.google.com then fill in:skull and bones fraternity: there you will understand what is going on in the world.and Why BUSH is acting the way he is acting.

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davidylan banned for "turning yet another productive argument into a name-calling game".

Denex and other smart guys, let the debate proceed!

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Yes Denex,spoonfeed me with links.The burden of proof lies solely with the person making a claim.That concept might be alien to you but that is how civilised debates are conducted.Otherwise anyone can claim anything.If these claims you make can be verified by simply using google,why don't you put up links here.I have done that several times myself.

You still haven't produced links for the following lies:    

-that the latest US unemployment rate is not really 4.5%.

-that Bush is falsifying the numbers

- that Cheney shot his hunting partner deliberately

- that US growth rate is not 3.3% in real terms.

- that Bush ordered  the doctoring of satelitte photos

-That most of the US casualties in Iraq  are South American immigrants

-That some of the casualties have not reached the legal age of watching Indecency(18 years)

-

I just chose a few for you to prove.Your shameless mendacity is mind numbing.Prove us wrong by providing evidence of the claims you make

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Another one of denex's fallacies:

Just on the news today:

'Foreign fighters' die in Somalia

Foreign fighters from Britain, Sweden and Pakistan were among those killed by US missiles and Somali army operations, according to the Somali government.

A remote village in the Puntland region was bombarded on Friday, following the reported arrival of foreign militants.

As many as a dozen people were reported to have been killed, including at least six foreign Islamists, the government and army said.

What a "stable" country!

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@denex,

"study this, learn and take correction instead of blowing hot here."

You also mentioned in passing that gas prices have not really increased because it is just a sign of the inflation experienced in the U.S. How untrue. I intend to call some friends in London and Germany today and ask if they are still paying the same prices they paid for gas as before. In the mean time, here is an article on BBC with regards to the increase in gas price in the U.K. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4723648.stm

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@ denex,

Stop trying to dodge your obvious inaccuracies that have been pointed out to you.

Go back and read my last 4 posts, NO WHERE did i mention anything about foreign exchange you claim to have "schooled me" on.

I mentioned your errors on:

1. women winning voting rights in Saudi Arabia - you barely skirted around it without acknowledging your initial error!

2. you claimed north Korea armed themselves with nuclear weapons when Bush named them among the axis of evil despite signing an agreement to replace their nuclear reactors in 1994 when Clinton and NOT Bush was president - again you pretended not to see that.

3. You claim nothing has been done with the billions of dollars given in AID to Nigeria at the local government level forgetting that the role of the AID donor does not include helping implement programs at Ikeja local government - again you hypocritically avoided that:

Only to start "schooling me" on foreign exchange WHICH I NEVER MENTIONED IN ANY OF MY LAST 4 POSTS!

Be a man and start "schooling us" on your numerous errors pointed out first!

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@daviddylan

Aren't you just getting bolder and bolder? You used to always wait for I-man to post so you could back up. Now you've left the shadows only to post nothing. What new point or information regarding your stand have you just revealed? My friend wait for I-man to say something before you start mumbling in here.

Have you studied the simple arithmetic I just schooled you in? Rather than take your time to to study it, learn and take correction, you're blowing hot wind in here.

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You would do well to take your own advice. Another long post that is all noise and no substance , refusing to take responsibility for the many gaps in logic and "facts" inherent in your first post that your equally clueless friends hailed as "accurate and precise".

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@daviddylan

please restrict all arguments or discussions to fact based depositions.

How can you say 2 days to hand over, fuel price is increased by more than 100% in Nigeria?

Final price minus initial price, divided by initial price, multiplied by 100. That's percentage change in price.

75-65/ 65 x 100

= 10/65 x 100

=0.1538 x 100

= 15.38%

simple maths my brother.

So what exactly is the price of gasoline in the US compared to Nigeria?

A gallon is averagely $3.20 ( www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html ) that is a US government site so y'all don't think I'm trying to be bias.

So now,

1 gallon = $3.20

and since $1 = N127

then surely,

1 gallon will be = $3.20 x 127

1 gallon = N406

and since 1 gallon is 4.5 litres,

1litre would cost,

N406/4.5 litres

1litre = N90.31

that's the cost of fuel in the US. Simple arithmetic. In Nigeria, it's N75 and you guys are complaining.

Do you not know that IMF advised the government to deregulate fuel prices and remove subsidies allowing market forces of demand and supply stabilize prices to what obtains in the world market. The Nigerian government is not actually adding cost to the price of fuel. They are only gradually reducing the subsidy as prescribed by the IMF.

Check fuel prices from all around the world from a couple of months ago:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices

I-man, did you really think of it this way? Or you just thought to yourself "gasoline in US: 3.20, gasoline in Nigeria: 75" didn't you consider actual exchange rate?

@daviddylan

no let your village people lie to you say dollar na 142 Naira O! The dollar has been between N127 and N129 for more than a year now. And by the way, young Nigerians are making major money right now. Only the smart ones though that understand entrepreneurship and Innovation. Ask Seun.

Why are you guys always looking for jobs in Nigeria? Will the Nigerian government stop you from creating jobs? Or getting self employed?

I was just starting to type a very long document when I saw daviddylan's last post about the two women voted into a chamber of commerce in Saudi Arabia. The right to be voted into CHAMBER of COMMERCE? Not into a local government position, not voted as state governors. Well, I'd like George Bush to come to Nigeria and give girls the right to be voted as senior prefects in mixed schools cos to me, the schools tend to be imposing boys. People are dying in Iraq, dying in Afghanistan, homeless and helpless in New orleans, massive funds are being looted yet George Bush took time off to achieve the world saving feat of helping give TWO women the right to be voted into the chamber of commerce. Why doesn't he just grab a cape while he's at it and rescue cats stuck in trees.

Secondly, you knew that the Taliban was very much active and around and you claimed NO MORE TALIBAN simply because you thought no one knew better.

@I-man

No be me talk say no progress in Sudan. It was George Bush that said it 2 days ago. He didn't say progress in the south, no progress in the west. He didn't say stability in the east and instability in the north. The man said there was NO PROGRESS IN IRAQ.

And someone said I copied and pasted. I'd rather perform harakiri than copy and paste. Everything I post is done off the top of my head from accumulated information. And for the love of God, everyone knows NTA is the Nigerian governments mouth piece. Why in the hell should I wait for information from NTA when it's not as if the internet is classified? Abeg be real. If you want to diss NTA, there is a string for that in the entertainment boards.

And I-man, if you cannot use google to carry out a simple search, it stuns me just trying to think how you became so informed. So you want me to spoonfeed you with links?

If I tell you that George Bush is manipulating economic figures and you choose not to believe, that is now your own cup of pap.

The first document falsification I can recall that George Bush was engaged in was in 1977 when he registered a company just so he could write it in his election candidates applications that he was the chairman of a company. A company that didn't start functioning for the next 2 years.

Falsified documents regarding climate reports of more than 150 internationally acclaimed climatologists.

lied to the securities and exchange commission about insider trading at Harken Energy.

Awarded fake medals to soldiers that died in Iraq so he could draw sympathy. Using the death of soldiers that went to sacrifice their lives for manipulative politics and image laundering through lies.

Lied that Saddam had manufactured unmanned aircrafts and missiles that could carry a nuclear or biological weapon to the west coast of the US.

Lied about his conviction on drunk driving and lied about his cocaine use during 1972-74.

Ordered the doctoring of satellite photographs to prove his WMDs in Iraq theory.

Now you want me to go to Washington and gather proof that George is lying. Well, I think maybe he could be telling the truth this time. Maybe he got born again and changed his wayward ways. Yeah Right.

The simply question I asked was the physical manifestation of the countless billions of dollars of AID that has arrived in Nigeria. By the way, don't even bother carrying the story that the corrupt African leaders stole the money because the USAID carrier out it's own projects directly using their own personnel. Abeg make one person answer me this.

Anyway, I don commot mouth for this matter. Question was if George Bush makes a mockery of all that America stands for: justice, diplomacy, stability freedom and equity. Has he made a mockery of all this? Has America gone from world police to world militarian? And my answer is YES!!

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@denex,

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/sub-saharan_africa/countries/nigeria/. That you do not know does not mean it don't exist. Besides, all the aid provided to Africa is public knowledge, and no country has yet claimed the promises were never fulfilled.

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Are you suggesting we should have voted George Bush as the Ikeja local government chairman so the US AID to Nigeria could have been better utillised?

thanks to George Bush alqaeda is now well rooted in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, London e.t.c.

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I don't know whether you guys saw this one.

What can I say when someone implys that the US at the present time has lesser human rights protection than Nigeria

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Just one of the many "facts" from professor denex

Denex attempts to hoodwink us into believing that North Korea started her nuclear program in order to "arm" herself in retaliation to being listed as part of the axis of evil.

However, the true FACTS of the matter indicate US and North Korea actually signed an agreed framework on the 21st of October 1994, with the sole aim of ensuring a gradual phasing out of NK's graphite-moderated nuclear power plants, which could easily produce weapons grade plutonium, to be replaced with light water reactor (LWR) power plants by a target date of 2003.

Sir Denex, not even a 5yr old will agree with you that George Bush was president of the US in 1994!

Kudos to those who described denex's article as "precise" and "straight to the point". It's clear it was more noise than subtance.

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