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Where Is Oduduwa Really From?

Have read Alot of stories about this Man,but they are very Confusing,one says he is from Mecca while an other say he is from Edo.But main looking at it i don't think he is from Mecca,because i wonder how many mile he will would have walk from mecca to get here and how he survived all the Ocean and swim through them to get to Nigeria without any big fish hurting him.i could remember when i was primary school i was thought he is from Mecca,does it mean that the writers of the so called Yoruba story book deceived us or Wat,any Yoruba in the house can tell me which story was really true?

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There is no sure way to determine where Oduduwa came from. Some scientists believed his ancestors might have come from the East, while there is more reason to think he has come from Ekiti. That place is noted for the Yoruba language to separate and deviate from other tribes. Presently, Oduduwa is considered to be the founder of the Yoruba people and by some he is perceived as some sort of divinity, sent down here to create the Earth and enable people to change physical reality by their will power.

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Hmm. So are you saying Oduduwa was igala man or he just stayed in igala territory and married there?

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The. Word oduduwa is an igala word meaning he comes from God but the truth is that the yorubas inherit fear from Oduduwa when he came to Idah he was running away from his brother so out of fear he refuse to talk so the igalas called him oduduwa. He later married one of them if u look at yoruba nupe igala and benin there is a connection am not an Igala nor Yoruba but these is the truth ask any Igala to explain the meaning of Oduduwa

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I'm fairly sure I've written about this interesting issue before on here so I don't want to repeat myself. Suffice to say that Oduduwa is almost certainly a mythological figure--sometimes regarded as male in the most recent references, but very often considered a female Goddess in the older 19th century literature. Claims to knowing the "true" story of Oduduwa in the royal lineages of modern Ife, Benin etc are coloured by modern political agendas and considerations about hierarchy, ethnic prestige and promotion, since they ignore much of the evidence in historical literature and base their claims on family myths or partially discredited local histories. These issues are similar to the roots of Hausa speculation about origins in Mecca or Igbo speculations about origins in Israel--examples of ethnic/religious prestige-seeking, since their verified West African histories are not well-known or taught to the masses.

Also--"ara" is the Yoruba word for thunder and is totally distinct from "ara", the word for "body"/"family"/"assembly" etc. 'Ora' is a dialectical variation, as suggested earlier. 'Aramfe' should probably be interpreted as 'Ara Ni Ife'--'Ara in/of Ife', a precursor to Sango as a deity of thunder. Sango was introduced from Oyo with well-known Nupe roots there.

Rev. Ajayi Crowther's 'A Vocabulary of the Yoruba Language' is useful reference material on these things for anyone interested.

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Interesting and captivating thread spanning over two years...

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A lots of story on oduduwa' emergency I think the fact remain that he met people in ife when he came and later became their ruler and defeated their oppressors, but where he come from, this has become confusing debating even in the past. Thank u ppl for those points raised I learned new ones

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This is true story of Oduduwa,take it or leave it.Your opinion cant change it $ is therefore irrelevant.

Once upon a time, there lived a community of people(yorubas) who lived under an iroko tree... They were so much at peace until a certain day wen an individual(Izoduwa) wandered from the bush(after being banished from benin kingdom).. On getting to the community, he realised these pple were fast asleep and there was not space for him under the big iroko tree to sleep... So he decided to climb to d top of the tree to pass the night(superman tins).. On waking up the following morning, he realised this community of people were awake already and didn't even notice him up there... So he decided to climb down wt a rope(Tarzan tins)... This community of people were so amazed as they neva saw a tin like dis before and so they chose him as a king... 3000 years later, the descendants of both parties are on nairaland fighting for supremacy... Now tell me, who is to be blamed?... The gods, Izoduwa, the community of pple or the iroko tree?....

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I patiently but expectantly await the outcome of your research. Perhaps Hausa language would be useful in this regard.

Here's Prof Lange's hypothesis

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Amor4ce,

I know you once did a post on the significance of the name Dawud or Daud or David in traditional Yoruba customs. Dawud is also spelt Wadud or Awdud. If the ending WA is a place holder for descendency, then Odud is more likely the name. The second U will be added to make the connection in Yoruba as Odudu, but Odud will more likely be the correct name following that logic.

Awdud is a match with Odud and the concept of David, Dawud in the custom is appropriate for a male first born. Oduduwa would have been a Dawud.

I have to do some more reading on this.

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I recently read some portions of Johnson's book and noted that:

Asara (Terah) was a priest of Lamurudu (Nimrod) and had three sons. One of the three sons is known today to the Yoruba as Oduduwa (Abraham), and the other two, the kings of Gogobiri and Kukawa, are Nahor and Haran. Oduduwa, whose royal title was Ọlọfin, travelled to the land of Canaan where he met Agbọ-niregun (one of the appellations by which Ọrunmila is known to Ifa devotees) who taught Ifa to the former. It is believed that Ẹla’s (transliterated as El) first incarnation was as Ọrunmila.

Oduduwa had children but the heir was Ajaka (I suspect that Ọkanbi is an appellation pointing to such) who encountered lots of animosity as recorded in Genesis 26:12-13. Ajaka fathered a set of male twins, Ọranmiyan (Jacob) who became Ọlọyọ (king) of Ọyọ, and Ado (Edo/Edom) who became Alado (king) of Ado. Ọranmiyan, though the younger, inherited the land while the Ado/Edo was sent away (Genesis 36:6-7). Isẹdalẹ, the other name for Ado/Edo, is a compound name with the main part Isẹ corresponding to Esau.

The translations (insane?delusional?) by many that Edo(m) means red and Esau means hairy is only scratching the surface since irun is Yoruba for hair and pupa is red, hence the a closer look at the various ways the do and sẹ tones should prove useful in verifying the translations. There is no ‘m’ sound in Ado/Edo, which points to an error in using the root d-m to compare the names Adam and Edom.

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The interpretations of the inscription and Trident symbol could be considered quite speculative since we don't have detailed pictures of the staff - I wonder why - and a part was broken off during a storm. We also need the versions of Oranmiyan/Yoruba history from Ile-Ife and other Yoruba domains instead of Oyo as I suspect the latter might have distorted/spun tales for political reasons.

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/spirituality-connect-your-center/8910-oranminyan-brotherhood.html

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Amor4ce,

This brings up inquiries into the person of Oranyan. The only documented record we have in Yorubaland about him is what is left in the Oranyan staff. I am of the opinion that the markings on the staff are symbolic and a dedication to either Oduduwa. If so, then Oduduwa as the earthly persona of the heavenly Aramfe is on mark.

The punch marks on the staff depict the zodiacal symbol of Neptune - The Trident.

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Since Ondo itself grew into prominence from resulting contact with Orangun to the North and Bini to the East, it will be nice to see what these places say about Oramfe, if anything.

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Asar Imhotep has offered a translation of Oduduwa as Spirit of Black Character.

Oduduwa (Olofin) had a son named Ajaka (cognate with Isaac) and 2 grandsons, one of whom is Oloyo also known as Oranyan and the other became the Alado or eponymous ancestor of the Edo people. The Alado, even though the elder, did not inherit the land. Rather, Oranyan did as he was loved more. Oduduwa met Agboniregun at Ile-Ife who taught the former Ifa. Agboniregun is Orunmila and Orunmila is Ela whose name is written/pronounced by many today as El. This is what I came up with after reading some portions of Johnson's book - The history of the Yorubas.

In the book 'Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible' Jacob is mentioned as having the epithet Orion attached to him. Orion is the Greek way of pronouncing/saying Oranyan which is short for Oranmiyan. I want to believe that Oduduwa is an epithet for Abraham, and that both Oranmiyan and Oduduwa appeared twice on the scene (I don't see why atunwa is not possible here, especially since each of us have specific tasks).

As for the chain, I have wondered if an individual with a special assignment from Olodumare descends from orun to aiye by holding on to the chain.

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Although I don't know if there is definitive evidence that those seven states existed before others, your statement that Ondo would be much later than the era when Oduduwa or Obatala was around does seem to be correct from available information. It's unfortunate that I'm unable to find out from those articles everything that is stated about the relationship between Oramfe and Ondo beyond the little that I've read because he does seem to have been an important figure.

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Thank you very much dear friend

A perfect and profound explanation.

I beg you not to stop posting.

Your comments are really splendid!

Kind regards!

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Ptolomeus,

I am not offended, I don't see your questions as criticism at all.

Yes, a word in Yoruba can have many meanings if it is written in "free-flow" style; that is without diacritics - the marks on top and bottom of the vowels and consonants. These markings guide the intonation and hence the specific word and meaning.

Ara - body, is the one I spoke in reference to ARAmfe. This ara carries the idea of moisture content. The body indeed has a high ratio of water and fluid and so the meaning and the idea, as well its point of reference in the context of that narrative of creation of man are all consistent.

The aduras in use in the Americas are influenced by the various foreign tongues that came in contact with them, so in their old usage would have ranged from the Egba, Ijebu and Oyo Yoruba tongues. The old Yoruba itself, the one spoken in Ife and its direct seven states was very close to ancient Hebrew tongue. Even in today usage, when you track rites and customs of the Yorubas with the rites and creeds in the Old testament, there is no dispute that there is a direct intimacy between the two.

If you follow the trail of certain Odus of Ifa, and then you go to Genesis and read about Noah, you will come to the conclusion that Noah was a babalawo. There are many instances of the closeness, even right into Exodus.

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Physics,

From what you shared, yes, there is no doubt that Aramfe/Oramfe are same individual. On the direct connection with Ondo, I will find the author's assertion questionable. It is great that many Yorubas are documenting the history of the land but it seems to me that in absence of a regulating authority to spot-check or review and authenticate what is written, writers are taking liberties to embellish the history of their lands, giving an account that is at cross-purpose with the authentic source in Ife.

The Yoruba states were derived subsequent to Oduduwa's reign and the seven were - Orangun, Popo, Sabe, Owu, Bini, Oyo and Ketu.

Ondo would be a much later founding as a result of settled influences from Orangun and Bini. There is no way Oduduwa or Obatala, whether in their physical presence or by mythical narrations could have had direct parts in Ondo history. So I don't know how or where "Kingdom of Ondo" came about. These two authors - Olupona and Lawuyi cannot be taken to be authorities on the origins of Yoruba, they very well could be experts on Ondo history.

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I do not speak Yoruba, and I understand that sometimes the same word can mean different things ....

But the word "ARA" actually does not mean "BODY"? (in the sense of material body, physical body).

It is a question that I have been generated with the last comment.

And as always I beg you not understand I'm doing criticism, quite the contrary ... his comments shed much light to my humble knowledge.

Regarding your comment on the modern Yoruba language and the former, I have in my possession aduras to Orisa, which come from the days of slavery. It would be of interest to me that you (and why not, and other partners) give me your opinion on the dialect used in these aduras. What do you think possible?

From already thank you for your wisdom and spirit of collaboration.

I remain at your service

Very friendly

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Of course if you, dear friend.

Unfortunately you are right, talk about Africa is to associate it with chains and slavery. Slavery, unfortunately, I do not know if he finished in the XXI century.

I do not associate the chain of Oduduwa with slavery.

I associate African slavery, with the Arab and European chains.

Not that of Oduduwa.

That's what I pretended to express.

But perhaps you and I are talking about the same.

My respects.

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@ Negro Ntns

Well Oramfe does really seem to be an alternate spelling of Aramfe mentioned in the text you linked to, so the accounts of Aramfe given there would also be part of the stories about Oramfe. It seems certain that they are the same, but whether the name is really Aramfe or really Oramfe isn't obvious and one of the two slightly different names may just be a dialect variation on the other original.

I can't tell you any more than the little that I've read about Oramfe, so if you want more in-depth information, perhaps speaking with someone besides yourself with a deep knowledge of Yoruba religion or history would be a good idea.

I've read that Oramfe was originally an actual person, who settled a dispute between Oduduwa and his rival Obatala or Orisa-nla (Oramfe acted as a mediator), was later invited to Ondo where he played some role in assisting the kingdom of Ondo, and then was later deified as the god of thunder. It's not clear (to me at least) whether he was a ruler of Ife that preceded both Obatala and Oduduwa to Ife or someone who came later than both, but he seems to have been a very important figure to be deified and to be held in high esteem in Ife. He is apparently known as the god of thunder in Ife, Ilesa, and Ondo, but not known outside of that area. That's a very brief summary of what I've pieced together from various sources, but there are more detailed studies of Oramfe that I have come across but haven't been able to access.

These are three studies of Oramfe:

"Oramfe: Salvation and Tradition among the Ondo-Yoruba" by Jacob Olupona

"Oramfe: myths, rituals of cosmization" by Jacob Olupona

"Mythical images, historical thought, and Ondo religion: the Oramfe myth as clue to Ondo-Yoruba identity" by Olatunde Lawuyi

If I could access these I would post the contents of these articles or detailed summaries but I can't. Sorry I don't have more information. As I said before, I just know who he is (a god of thunder and a mediator), but don't know what deeper significance he had originally or has today.

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Y'all beta nt be suprised that we Igalas also have him in our origin legends too.

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Didn't really have tym 2read pgs 1&2.... Buh lemme add the Igala version of oduduwa origin... In Igala 'Ondu' means God or Almighty, then 'Duwa' means To bring... Hence the Igala believes Oduduwa is a corrupted form of Onduduwa... Meanin God brought him.

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I wanna use dis time to contribute a little here. As a student of history, i hav been puzzled by dis oduduwa of a thing buh in my final year, a professor explained it all: FACTS: dia re two Oduduwas, d 1st one is associated wit d Origin of mankind and d creation of d world while d 2nd one is d arab guy dat came to settle on our land after conquerin d rulin dynasty and chose to adopt d highest title of our Yoruba history&dynasty which is Oduduwa d progenitor of Yoruba race &oda races. Most people easily confuse dis two accounts of d two oduduwas as one buh dey re quite different! Its however important to note dat most conquerin invaders are always of d habit of imbibin d title of d kingdom dey've jst overthrown e.g. Pharaohs of egypt, dis is done to evade d history and prevent uprisin in d later years as generations unborn will not note any difference in d rulin lineage to dia real lineage and d invasion history will be lost tru dis and dis is exactly wat d arab oduduwa did to erode our history & portray himself & his lineage as Yorubas which they're actually not! Meanwhile, dey dnt stop at dis alone, dey even go to d extent of erasin d people's history and destroy d evidence of dia invasion to finally assimilate demselves into d people dey invaded, d arab oduduwa did dis by stemmin down d history of d real Yoruba ruler he met at Ile-Ife who wz Agbonmiregun! Do you kno wat happened to him? Its simple, d fake oduduwa killed him & inheritted his throne and threw d history into d mud....

I tink dis is a bit helpful

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I think you and I might just be kindred spirits, I have a serious e-crush on you right now, lol. Oh, which cap fold are you talking about?

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: kay_pumpin on June 27, 2009, 01:20 AM

Oduduwa in Yoruba is translated as Odu- to- da- iwa meaning the oracle that created(or bequathed) good behaviour.

Odutodaiwa is different from Oduduwa.

Yoruba language is very specific.

Even though difficult to believe,Oduduwa might have been from Igbo area.The name Oduduwa or odua is still born till this day in Igboland.I have an old relative that bears the name.

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Topic

From my village. . .

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this one is quite plausible- Nigerians are good at tracking themselves down. People from the region obviously saw him or heard he was in Ife and proceeded from there.

This kind of thing happens all the time.

@ the rest: I'm also curious.

And did the two kingdoms start at the same time? ie Ife and Bini.

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I still find the two Oduduwa accounts to be full of holes to be frank . . . the yoruba version is also full of holes . . .

They bini version sounds plausible but then breaks down at the time and name jump . . .

Who are the Ogiso's is there an earlier history about them . . . that can be used . . . and studied. . .

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The Bini account sounds good to the extent that it starts to breakdown at the point of saying:

1. How did they know he was in Ife

2. Ogiso Owodo never migrated to yorubaland

3. There is no one known as Lamurudu in this equation.

4. Lamurudu is supposed to be the father of Oduduwa.

5. No one still has shown how and when the Bini version of Oduduwa got to Ife.

6. All I am seeing here is that Bini version just performed an historical time jump . . . from a Bini man one minute and Oduduwa the next minute.

Finally, is there an historical record of the interaction of the Bini version of Oduduwa has he was going from Bini to Ile-Ife . . . how the heck did he even know Ile-Ife to begin with in the first place. . .

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The Ogiso, or Ogie-Iso, were sky kings. According to the Bini account, Oduduwa is the son of Ogiso Owodo, thus it makes sense for Oduduwa to tell those he met at Ile-Ife that he "descended (or fell or came) from the sky".

On the chickens, I think you are right that it stands for someone preparing grounds for Oduduwa. In fact, the Bini account identifies a certain Iha (Ifa) priest, or babalawo, who moved from Edo land to Ekiti and eventually to Ife. According to their account, he played a significant role which led to the acceptance of Oduduwa's (by the Yoruba aborigines) and his installation as the the Ooni of Ile-Ife.

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i meant he is egyptian with arab origins, and like i said it is my theory

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Apologies if i sounded as if i am attacking you. just trying to correct an error which you can also notice from your statement which i quote below.

your statement quoted above is implying that Oduduwa's family was an arab i.e. among the arabs, hence part of the people that invaded Egypt.

I guess you meant something else, but unfortunately what you said is not wat u meant.

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As far as integrating science and maths into Yoruba. . .you probably mean the other way around, extracting Yoruba into science and maths.

Did any of you followed my discussion on Ifa with Pastor AIO? This was in religion section. Yoruba Nation is at crossroads and we need to act quick to decide on which way forward. We have one endowment that no other civilization presently in human history have. . .and thats IFA.

Growing up we were taught that IFA is sacred and that we were not to associate with IFA worshippers and acolytes because they are agents of darkness and have super natural powers that in an instant can unleash unimaginable and irreparable damage to lives and properties. So normal instincts and childhood curiosities that naturally ought to be steered in that direction was instead scared away from the adventure. No risks,no gains. So here we are adults, ignorant of our own roots energy and philosophy and equally ignoran of the foreign ones we professed and vowed to follow.

. . .its too high to get over

. . .its too low to get under

and we are stuck in the middle.

That song is admonition for someone that "wanna be starting something". We cant start anything even if we try. Yoruba wake up!

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Gator, this one go do more than Mecca.  After Medina we take trip to Iraq.  We go to Fallujah to visit the shrine of the Grand Sheik Ali.  If she is not in hurry we can take a tour of the historic Euphrates River.

TOH is no longer Ekiti woman.  She is now the ERELU OF ISALE-EKO.

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--sighs-- i never said ancient egyptians were arabs but rather that arabs invaded the ancient egyptians

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since you believe this why are you still a Muslim? After all its the Arabs that enforced this on Africans

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thats because Arabs were the ones documenting African history before the arrival of the Europeans.

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no2,

May God Bless and enrich you.

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this is my theory about Oduduwa and the yoruba history. the claims that Oduduwa has roots in mecca can be true at the same time he probably came down from egypt. there is a tribe in egypt that has great similarities with the yoruba language, so my theory is Oduduwa's family was among the arabs that invaded the original egyptians and they got mixed with this egyptian tribe and later in life He and probably a few other warriors headed west and came to west of nigeria where there was an unknown local tribe and he probably conquered their villages and became their king. he spoke the egyptian language and learned the local language too but being king, his version of the original language integrated with the local dialects he met became the yoruba language and the beginning of a new ppl. as for the sky diving part, that is plain arrant nonsense

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Sorry o, Ekiti women dnt do Mecca

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is he?

I thought he was an atheist and traditionalist. ie ATR.

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No2,

To be honest with you I learnt most of these things in my travels around the country. I have many blessings but I will mention one that is directly related with what you are trying to achieve here. This is not a brag, I call God to witness on what you are about to read. I cannot recommend a book for you, I did not acquire my knowledge from books.

I am from Lagos and I am blessed to have people in my family who are direct custodians of the culture and heritage in Lagos. So at a very young age we were already indoctrinated into the history of Lagos, going back before, during and after colonialism. Later and at an older age the instruction and lessons continued with the history of Yoruba Nation and its seven states. We also learnt about the wars and who the opponents were. Tucked into lessons on the opponents we learnt about their states and political structure. I was very fascinated with the Fulani war. So when I had opportunity to go to North I jumped at it and buried myself deep in their city to learn all I can. I was in Kano. I went to school with direct royal blood of the Kano Emirate. . .both Bayero and his predecessor, Sanusi. It was a large family and I became very acquainted with them and through these chanels I learnt a lot about the Fulani and Hausa history and their political ideologies. Then I went to school in Zaria and met there with other affluent chanels from Katsina, Sokoto, Bornu. So my knowledge of history was a fortunate one that occurred through direct contact with the custodians of the respective cultures and exceptionally out of any formal academic classroom but it is by far more genuine than any textbook could ever teah me. I thank God for the blessings and the fortunes. I have gone to libraries and tried to read books on the history of Lagos and had to abort the attempt because a lot is left out that is very improtant to value and ideology of the people.

This oral tradition has left me even in my adulthood to be very suspicious of second hand and third hand information source. I can make tons of money writing historical accounts today but I will not. I have a plan. Iintend to instruct and teach my own children these things and let them write it and I will proof read it for accuracy. There are accounts of Lagos alone that could be turned into a big movie project and will find international audience because of the subject matter.

Anyway, sorry, I will not recommend books but I can continue to share what I can here in limited coverage. Remember, I am bequeathing the knowledge and so it is now considered a proprietary asset.

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i mean that it would take like 500yrs for it permeat the whole yoruba society to the point whereby people would think and write fluent mathematic and physical issues in yoruba.

Off course the earlier people start the better.

1. Yoruba has to be distilled, to a simpler and less congested written form.

2. This form should then be used to teach student in school.

3. translation of mathematics and physica books should then be done.

4. teaching of mathematics and physics in yoruba should then be done.

achieving all this is the reason why i projected that it would take at least 5 generations to achieve fluency and efficiency in science with the language.

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Lol is N2A aware that Negro is an Alhaji

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Arabic and European brainwashing.

1. That is why you see grown men and women defending Islam with their lives even though a simple open mindedness would help them see that Mohammed is the greatest liar known to man.

2. I am likewise amazed by Black Africans who refuse to study and believe history because they are afraid that it would expose the fact that the Messiah was not White.

3. Some people who claim to be atheists and still believe in a white messiah are the ones that suprise me the most, cus it seems they are just trading one dogma for another dogma.

History shows that Arabs are more or less an uneducated bunch of people. It was the Africans that they conquered and other races that they conquered that more or less contibuted to the knowledge base that they are now trying to claim as theirs e.g. the Black Moors.

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I have also thought of that but i must confess, i would be glad if some people can at least do it so that 500 years from now. Yorubas can easily be doing mathematics and science in their language, just as Japanese and Chinese also do a lot of mathematics and science in their own language.

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