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Gender Inequality: Was Feminism Just a Fad?

Was feminism a [just] fad (short-lived fashion: something that is very popular but only for a short time)? Has the battle for equal rights been won? Is that why women have gone from burning their bras to buying push up ones?

Some women argue women can still be a feminist and wear pink fluffy slippers - oh and have sex with men. just where is feminism today?

All views welcome.

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We need to first overstand the impact that colonialism, christianity/islam and capitalism has had on traditional Alkebulan(or so-called african) society.

In pre-colonial times women were treated far more equitably and honourably. Women had political and economic power that was more or less in par with that of males. Women were influential; they served as chiefs, warriors, empresses and held other important positions of authority. Women were part of the divine preisthood who served as intercessors between the people and the Gods/Goddesses/ancestors. Women had equal access to communal lands which conferred the possibility of social mobility and economic empowerment. Some societies in Alkebulan were matriarchal, tracing lineage and entitlements to inheritance through the mothers' family. Monuments, liberal arts, literature and all powerful deities were dedicated to the divine feminine principal(see ancient Kemet/egypt for some of the most elaborate forms of these expressions)

All this was destroyed when Colonialism introduced the masculine ideology of patriachy which drastically re-defined our traditional identities, values, high morals and norms, all of which elevated women to their rightful place in society. Patrimonial political systems were established where patrons whom personalized the state bureaucracy and privatized national resources bought clients over whom in turn organized support from the masses.

Capitalism imposed the commercialization of farm lands which were transformed from communal lands to private lands and ownership were transfered solely to men. This disadvantaged women and reduced their economic power markedly.The introduction of legal tender/money through taxable cash cropping systems further strenghtened the "male-bread-winner" family code system and, in the proces, female right to employment equity was relegated to the back seat.

Then christianity/islam introduced belief systems that indoctrinated the alkebulanite on the inherent inferiority of women. These religions acknowlegde God the father, God the Son but not God the mother. The supreme position of the divine female principle is denied. Women are banned from preisthood. Women are said to have been made from just one rib in the male despite her genetic superiority. Women in alkebulan identify with, and are devoted to, religions that teach male superiority over wombmen/women.

So my dear sistas, as you can see , the black male is not your enemy. Know your enemy. Your hatred for the oppressor must be externalized not internalized. Be mad at your religion and those white/arab devils who imposed them on your ancestors, Be furious at this universalized liberal market systems that is governed by neo-liberal policies which are anti-woman enpowerment in essence. The white/arab male's enmity toward the feminine principle is genetic and has a long savage history that goes way back to the caves and hills of the caucasus mountians where their females were brutalized in every way imaginable. That's also why white females have a pressing psychological need for liberation.

But as usual these devils have dragged our sistas into their madness and savagery.

My sistas, you must resist being manipulated and used as an instrument of confusion and destruction in our families, and by extension, our communities and nation. Wake up sista, love thy self and join in our collective uncompromising fight against these foreign ideologies and models.

It's all about our right to self-determination.

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some people ask me why i hate the bible so much and when I tell them that I don't support the way women are being treated and described, all they do is to give silly justifications like "that is the way the world was created"

what the hell does that mean? I just think that any sexist acts like that because of fear. Yes! men are afraid they might lose their credibility if women are allowed to show what they can. what do you do when you don't want someone to become more than you? you simply destroy the person's confidence by telling the person continuously that s/he is a failure. why is it that some women think that it's their duty to cook? simple because that's what they were told and taught right from their childhood. so the fact that there are women who aren't able to fight against this gender inequality is because they grew up in a patriarchal society, where men do some kind of brainwash on the women to make them believe is the best. some even use religion as a means of "mental slavery" for the women. What do Islam people say to justify FGM, they say they do it in the name of Islam and to reduce the promiscuity of women. And in the bible (if what is written is really the truth) why must all women be condemned just because of the sin of only one? didn't dam sin as well? didn't the bible say that in front of god all sins are the same so all sinners should be judged equally? so why is it that Adam didn't receive any severe punishment?

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Trust me, they do care. It's just that some of them have been brought up to believe that women don't have a plave in society and think that they are lucky they are breathing or alive.

Actually those women you mentioned are probably women that have been educated or been abroad. their eyes are open and they think "wait a minute, a woman can be a finance minister too". and they go for it. see some women don't think like that. that's why the men have to collaborate. send their girls to school and teach them to be leaders instead of the followers they are brought up to think of themselves as.

Also, in the past time, the pioneer feminists had been daughters of wealthy politicians and what not. they were educated unlike most girls and made good use of what they got by teaching other women to get education. they fought for the rights of women because they looked at themselves and saw the condition of other women.

Those people you mentioned i will call feminists. they have challenged the idea that women are physically and intellectually unfitted for any useful activity outside the home or in areas of politics e.t.c. Now the other women will look up to them and gain more confidence in themselves.

There are increasing numbers of females in the professions now. That's a good sign but it's just that the numbers aren't as significant in some countries as others.

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I wish women's rights would be fully recognized but unfortunately in the present world that we live in, i am tempted to believe what one man said on T.V .......... There can not be gender equality ever, but women empowerment up to the highest level. He was saying that women would never be equal to men but that women can be empowered to reach up to very high levels and in a way i feel he is right. Many men would simply not want women to express there rights and the other men who through one side of there mouth say that they support gender equality and that women should stop accepting whatever men dish out to them are the same men that use old age stereotypes 4 women. It is an unfortunate situation.

This meaning women can be giving opportunities in politics, etc even up o the highest level but on most social issues, they are given simple steroetypes by the very same men who claim they want gender equality.

Just maybe Men and women are not equal............? Let the guns begin exploding........................ comments welcome

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And when you become the finance minister, the other women will ask the male president kick you out of office because you 'need a make-over'.

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No, i think they just don't care. Our finance minister is a woman - the most coveted post in a corruption-ridden country. The education minister is a woman. The Vice-chancellor (Chief Executive) of the country's highest rated private university is a woman. And it doesn't stop there - in the NGO sector, women are at the forefront of efforts to make the society better. Maybe the other women are simply satisfied with their status in the society. if they are satisfied, why disturb them with ideas that they are not ready to fight for?

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u bet ur...they don't. not everybody wanna use their time on somefin like this when they know it's not gon yield notin. now i Know u gon get diz mixed up so i will explain. i'm not sayin d fight 4 equality is a waste of time though sometimes it looks like dat but trust me it's gon change newayz wat i'm sayin is not alot f people wanna use their time to argue with peeps who just don't get it!!!!!!

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Maybe the other women don't care.

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And ur point is?!!!!!

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What is Gender Equality:

"Gender equality means that women and men have equal conditions for realizing their full human rights and potential to contribute to national political, economic, social and cultural development and benefit equally from the results. Equality is essential for human development and peace."

Source: Setting the Stage for the Next Century: The Federal Plan for Gender Equality, Status of Women Canada 1995.

"Gender equality requires equal enjoyment by women and men of socially-valued goods, opportunities, resources and rewards. Gender equality does not mean that men and women become the same, but that their opportunities and life chances are equal."

Source: OECD - DAC (Development Assistance Committee) Guidelines for Gender Equality and Women's Empowerment in Development Co-Operation, Development Co-operation Guidelines Series, OECD, 1998.

In short, gender equality means that women and men enjoy the same status. Because of the current situation of inequality, it cannot be achieved without the empowerment of women. Both equality and empowerment are necessary to achieve political, social, economic, cultural and environmental security

Both men and women have a stake in building a more just society where all people are equally valued for their contributions. Yet, gender equality has often been seen as a 'women's issue' separate from men and 'gender' often been confused to mean women only. This is part of a tendency to consider men's characteristics as the norm and women's characteristics as different from the norm. Yet, both women and men are influenced by their gender and thus, ideas about the status of women are interrelated with ideas about the status of men. In short, change for women means change for men and vice versa.

The World Bank has estimated that for each additional year of schooling a woman's income increases by 10-20%, agricultural productivity increases by 10%, infant mortality drops by 10%, and the return on investment in deferred health care expenses is 25%. More education for girls means smaller, healthier families. In short, investing in education empowers girls and women to have greater control over their lives and is the single highest-yielding investment that a developing country can make. Yet, one out of five, or 130 million, children around the world ages 6 - 11 are not in school. Of these, 73 million are girls; this means that 2 out of every 3 children not in school are female. (UNICEF, 2000).

In short, reducing poverty and working for sustainable development requires partnerships between women and men in the pursuit of a more secure, equitable and prosperous world.

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Ka, i'm surprised you jumped into a long arguement with me without even understanding the term "gender equaltiy"..  . you don't know what it is and you're arguing against it.

you should have asked and i'll be more than glad to give you the definition.

"I'm not interested in ensuring that everyone is equal - I'm more interested in ensuring that everyone is happy."

you definitely wouldn't be making this statement if you were female. there's no way everyone can be happy when there's no equality.

as Nferyn pointed out earlier in one of his posts: "There is a very strong correlation between the level of gender equality and the human development index". the nations with higer levels of gender equality have higher human development index and african nations that lag behind in gender equality tend to have lower development index.

you've continuously attributed to me things I haven't said (like this latest statement about me being forced to watch matches).

i can make out from every single one of your posts including your last one ('im more interested in ensuring that all individuals are not forcibly prevented from doing things that they want to do, and are not forced to do things they don't want to do. )

instances where you make coments about me trying to force people to watch women's sports or making people do what they don't want to do!.. . .

i asked you "can you pin point to me exactly where i said the use of force is what gender equality is about?". you didn't answer the question insead you keep posting "force" like i'm threatning you with it.

you brought it into the arguement not me!

i used  sport as an anecdote to show a good example of "gender equality" and you completely elaboratred on it.

my point: the whole arguement between me and you have been centered around sport because you choose to argue about it when i stated is as just an example of gender equality.

You were actually arguing over a fact that is prooven true (i gave you a link to look at about gender inequality in Nigerian sports before arguing with me but you choose not to look at it so why blame me?). . . .

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WesleyanA: What you probably don't realize:

- If Ka was not on your side, he would not even bother to read the topic.

- There are only two female feminists on this forum - you and damygurl!

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You really do seem to favour the strawman style of argument. I haven't said anything about showing a girl's soccer match being the same as forcing viewers to watch, so I have no idea where you got that from.

However, there is the issue of how to get the match shown in the first place. Do you force the networks to show it? Or get the government to pay for the matches to be shown?

So not a lot, then.

<Sigh> I hope you don't always conduct your arguments like this, reading what you want to read instead of what I've written. I said:

How on earth does that equate to deciding (as you've written) that this should be someone's role model? Did you see the word 'might' in the phrase 'might be inspired'? That means even I don't know for sure that they would adopt that person as a role model. Or does pointing out someone mean that I am compelling my child to adopt the person as a role model?

Oh yes, I would tell my children about people who I think they might benefit from and be inspired by based on my understanding of their interests, in the same way I would give advice to someone whose interests I was certain of. If you think that's terrible counselling, then I guess we have a different understanding of the meaning of the word.

I've never argued that I'm not a discriminator - as I said, everyone discriminates on all sorts of basis. What you haven't shown me is where I said that men are superior to women in the same way that a racist would say that blacks are superior to whites. And I asked you to show me, because you were comparing my attitude to that of a racist.

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there is gender inequality in sports. take it or leave it. it's the fact!!!

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No one person did the work of removing legal barries to women getting involved in sports.

I'll have to say that's what women are fighting for. removing legal (illegal in some cases) barriers that are agaisnt them in society.

they did that and trust me they'll do more.

it takes time and effort though.

you keep emphasizing the word "force" like i'm threatning you with it!

no one's forcing anyone to do what they don't want to do.

if you take showing a girl's soccer match on tv as forcing the viewers to watch then you need help. some people don't like to watch soccer. are they being forced to watch it? NO. it's a free world. don't watch it if you hate it!

but trust me there are a few who actually hate girl's soccer (misogynists).

how much success have i had? same as you have had in convincing me that there's no gender inequality in sports!

it's tough being a feminist. and i commend those active feminists of the 1920's who worked to get the vote for women. it was a difficult job but they pulled it through!

still, i'll repeat you can't decide who someone's role model should be. you shouldn't be "advicing" kids who they should be inspired by. it doesn't matter if you know what their interests are. you can teach them about certain people and make them seem like heroes buts it's your kid who will decide for themselves if they want to be like the character or not!

you'll make a terrible councellor. seriously.

you don't have to agree to be superior to females to be a discriminator.

if you understand that there's gender discrimination and you argue for it. it makes you one indirectly.

if you have bias against one or favor one person over another because of gender, it's discrimination.

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I don't know enough about the history of soccer to comment on this. But anyone who has done work to remove the legal barriers to women playing soccer deserves to be commended.

Please note that I make a distinction between people being barred for no legitimate reason from doing something that they want to do and are able to do, and people not being able to do something because they do not have the co-operation of other people who do not wish to co-operate (for whatever reason). I'm strongly against any situation where any group that is forced - yes, forced - to do something that they don't want to do, or forced not to do something they want to do.

TV stations will show sports that they thing lots of people will watch and they will be able to make lots of money on from advertising (the more people watch an ad, the more the advertiser can charge). Presumably, TV stations don't feel that enough people watch women's soccer to justify charging companies lots of money to advertise... at least, not as much as they might charge for a men's soccer match.

There you go, attributing to me what I haven't said. Did you read this in my last post?

I thought that competitive soccer was a commercial concern. Certainly in the Europe, the government involvement is minimal and restricted to administration.

I don't have a problem lending my support against legal restrictions or arbitrary rules restricting women's freedoms to play soccer. Is there any other kind of support you feel that the individual should offer to women's soccer?

Well, I'm a gradualist. I don't believe that it is likely that I will get what I want on day one - in fact, sometimes it may not even be a good idea. Yes, I would work in a job I don't like - in fact, ten years ago I was working in a job I hated. But I used the experience, contacts, etc. that I got in that job to move on to something else, and today I'm doing something I enjoy and that pays well.

I didn't say there wasn't a difference in how easy it was to get positions. What I was questioning was whether in some cases this was necessarily a bad thing. Of course in the case of getting employment (that has a direct effect on someone's material well being), I cannot argue against opening up opportunities for employment.

Out of curiosity, how much success have you met in convincing men of this fact? Do you try to convince them with facts, or do you appeal to emotions?

Actually, you're right - I don't know enough about your life, so it was wrong for me to presume to advise you, and I apologise if you took offence. But if I see that my children have a particular interest, I don't see any harm in pointing out someone who has pursued that interest as someone they might be inspired by.

Well, I did say previously we all discriminate... but I don't hold with the view that one gender is superior to another gender (as a racist would hold to a view that one race is superior to another race). If you think I have expressed this view, I would appreciate it if you could show me where I have done so.

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"We have seen an increase in the number of females in the sporting arena recently. However, more could be done to ensure that females in the sports arena receive equal attention and opportunities as compared to the males.

A recent survey done showed that only 5.0% of the televised sports covered on women sports. In print media, a study on 4 major newspapers also found that less than 5.0% of sports stories are on women.

According to Donna Lopiano, PhD, male athletes received US$179 million more in athletic scholarships each year than their female counterparts. In our point of view, more funds could be channelled to develop potential sports women.

As Mariah Burton Nelson's book, The Stronger Women Get, the More Men Love Football suggests, women are being put down or seem are poorer counterparts in terms of sporting talents.

Because of all these, today the world perceives that women are not as capable or talented as men in terms of sporting ability. However, if we do not give them a chance, women are not able to prove their ability. Thus, more could be done to ensure gender equity in sports."

-- culled from a website.

ka, also take a look at this link. it's infested with pop ups but what can a woman do. it's a Nigerian site.

it discusses the issue of Nigerian women and sports.

http://www.onlinenigeria.com/links/adv.asp?blurb=625

besides sports is not the only area where gender inequality manifests itself. there are tons of other areas.

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Aight diz thread waz about is feminist just a fad so i'm gon say it's not!!!!! i'm a feminist in a sense and there r other feminist!!! Women may not be quite equal to men, but the principle of equality has been widely accepted and liberation is only a matter of waiting. We are allowed to vote, to drink in pubs and to work outside marriage. Our right to an equal education system and an equal workplace is enshrined in law. We have a women president.

we r not we used to be!! we've grown and we r still growing!!!!!!! we rock!!!!!!!4eva!!!!!!!!

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And whose fault is that? If your mother wanted to encourage you to be a doctor would your father had beaten her? I don't think so! And even if you're not encouraged to be a doctor, it is up to you to decide if your dream is worth pursuing no matter what. It is up to you to plan your life in such a way that your success will not lead to a lonely life. What the "society" says can only make it harder to achieve your goal; it usually does not make it impossible. It's not as if life is so rosy for men.

However, we are off-topic; I'll reorganize the thread son.

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how? remember she also didn't go to school because her dad said she belong in a kitchen. how is she going to help her daughter get into school? become a prostitute to make the money if the father uses all his money on the son's education?

you're grandmother didn't do the same for her daughter because he father probably didn't send her to school and she wasn't educated to know that girls can go to school too. she has probably been forced to accepet the fact that only boys belong in school though what she sees, experience and ignorance. if she had known that girls could be doctors too she probably would have sent her girl to school.

also, usually girls get discriminated against thereby making it tougher for girls to make it to the top than boys.

she was probably trying to protect her girl. who knows.

my mom for example when i said i wanted to be a doctor told me "it's a guy's job". and i should be a pharmacist instead

girls aren't encouraged to be what they want to be.

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girl's mother to do something about it. African women have a lot of tricks up their sleeves and if a mother is determined to send her children to school, she will:

My grandfather wanted his children to be peasant farmers like him but my grandmother did menial jobs to earn money to send her son (my dad) to school. She did not do the same for her daughter, however. So who is to blame for her daughter not going to school, like her son? Remember, she did not have the support of her husband to educate any of the children.

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yeah right. are you trying to say it's a white man's world because black men allow it to be a white man's world. the fact that white men are smarter, have all teh technology and can blow the world up with their weapons of mass destruction.. . . . . .

women are making efforts to help their situation. but without the men's help they really can't go far. men control everything and in the 1920's when women were fighting to be enfranchised (to be able to vote), they finally got it from the men. see that would never happen in Africa. Africa still has a long way to go.

now we have a couple of female presidents. who knows in the future, it wouldn't matter anyore if it was a male or a female who won elections.

in the past too only boys were allowed education but now, there are more women than men in higher institutions because men really don't care. they even tend to drop out than females. While women are trying hard to improve themselves by getting into school.

In Africa, it's the fathers that would discourage their daughters from going to school and say "you're going to end up in kitchen". what do you want the girl to do? beat her father up and steal his money to go to school?

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It is a man's world because women allow it to be a man's world. The fact that men are bigger is not much of an advantage in a civilized society because most jobs these days are brain jobs, and fighting someone physically can get you in jail.

But if the women refuse to stand up for their rights and support each other, then the exploitative men will continue to have their way. Women make up 50% of the society which means if "the society" is discriminating against women then women deserve at least 50% of the blame. In my opinion, women deserve more than 50% of the blame because they are the ones who know what they are suffering.

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i'm not gettin into anything i'm sayin wat i think about da matter. oh well i ain't saying things r alwayz gon go my way i'm saying plz i value my family and i don't want nobody talking about them like dat! u got a problem with me then u take it out with me!!!

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secondly are you trying to get into this coz i would fry you to hell. seriously , i would do it without mercy

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oh well!!! i'm not much of a fan of peeps talking about another person's family. dats too rude. u got a beef with da person then say it to them don't bring innocent peeps to it. and definately not family!!!!!! i don't get it people disagree. yall don't have to agree with eachother but now saying her mama is just wrong!! u can say wateva u want to her cuz she joined d site not her mom so talking about her mom like dat is just not right!!!

wanna use diz oppourtunity to tell evryone if u got a beef with me take it out with me plz do not at Anytime refer to my family members and definately not my MAMA. she's one special lady and i don't wan nobody talking bad about her.

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well welcome to the real world where you things dont always go your way.

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saying no one asked for my opinion, can i ask you a question , Did any member of your silly family start this forum, ? I think the answer is no , so you cant stop me lil Bottom hole. MF, You and Layi , could bring your ugly selfs on me, i gat you all mf , rooster sucker, ugly fools

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if you still have non-sensible comments don't even bother post it. no one's going to reply you! silly attention seeker.

just like your mama

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no one asked you for your opinion on this thread. and i make it clear to you: "if you don't have anything to say relating to the topic, don't post it"!.

if you badly need your medication that much then i guess you have to wait for Layi to come online for that. Go and start your fight with him not me.

if you still have non-sensible comments don't even bother post it. no one's going to reply you! silly attention seeker.

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@wesley , i don't understand you, are you sexually frustrated or frustrated in life. Please don't ever in your Damn life try to take your Frustration on Me. Go get a life and look for a guy, you lil slut

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no one's talking about american football. keep that to yourself. no one even asked for your silly opinions. you don't have anything to say, then va t'en!

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One thing i can say for a fact is support of a sport has to do with the history of that sport and its origin. American football is an American sport, played mainly in US, Europe as a whole dont care about American game. So you thinking about getting equal support from your school as the Football team, would never happen.

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@Damy, i understand you, but you have to understand for a fact, that we are different humans, some would and some wouldnt do it.

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I don't understand enough about your school's policy on sport to comment on this. Perhaps it chooses to allocate money to sporting teams on the basis of how popular the sport is with the wider educational community rather than on gender basis

hahahha what are you saying. My school's policy? it happens in almost every school!

how do the sports become popular! through money and support. if the girls sports get support adn financial aid, they will be popular too. and that's my poing exactly!!!!!

Well, what can anyone do about the attention that men's soccer gets? Are you suggesting that followers of soccer be forced to attend and cheer the women's soccer team even if they hate women's soccer? It's one thing to campaign for women to be given the freedom to pursue happiness... it's quite another thing to suggest that that happiness should come at the expense of others.

you hate women's soccer? just the same way i hate men's soccer! and it's the only one they play on tv. i hardly see women's soccer play!

soccer is the same thing. why should you classify it as different just because of gender! see my point?

happiness to come at the expense of others? what do you mean? men deserve to be happier than men? there are as many women as men in this world okay. and it doesn't hurt to give them equal attention. when does 50/50 become "at the expense of others"?

Sometimes, it's not just a matter of credentials... there are other things that come into play, l[b]ike whether the employee will get along with other employees... what his/her personal skills are, etc. But I believe that it is more important to arm women with these kinds of skills and abilities than to try and impose a quota or some other kind of inflexible criteria that robs the employer of the freedom to choose the most suitable person for his company.

would you be happy if a boss told you you aren't going to be hired because a white male counterpart who has the same credentials as you applied and for the sake of getting along with him (because blacks have this steriotype of being "criminals" you'll be loosing the spot.

if you were to be hired however, you'll have to get less money just because you're black!

how would you feel?

and i said same credentials meaning same skills and abilities

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@Damy , your illustration is also whack, if you dont know Blood is blood, i would love my biological child than any adopted child but i might not exzibit such in their presence

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OK, that's it for now - I really have to get some shut eye now! I'll reply to other posts tomorrow.

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listen how would you expect soccer or even male soccer to get more money, You illustratiion is just useless, American aint Europe or Africa and Hispanic countries where Soccer rules. That is just pratically lame. Dont use soccer and AM for your illustration. I undersatnd you talking about the male and the female factor but you gat to understand America's number passion is Football

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i said dat cuz  da message u waz trying to get out thru da illustration wasn't wat me was talking about. to me u view equal rights as d gurl wanting to be da guy. dats not it. equal rights is da gurl wantin to have da same rights and priviledges as da guy. she don wanna be discriminated  on just cuz she's a gurl!!!!! oppourtunity is a chance, especially one that offers some kind of advantagenity in it.

Right is an entitlement, freedom, or privilege to do something. i'm not saying they mean da same thing. da word i used was sorta. lets be realistic. we fight 4 equal rights but i don know maybe in da nxt 500yrs it gon be so but 4 now. women r still not given da same opportunities as men. take nigeria 4 example. how many women r in power? with da way d world is when a gurl gets into power it seen as a chance cuz dis will get people to vote 4 more women in da future. it's sorta like a blk person becoming president in America. lets say  a blk guy gets in to me dats an oppourtunity cuz it opens and gives more chances 4 more blk future presidents.

d stuff i already mention shouldn't have to be equal oppourtunity but rights. we should be entitled to it and not have to get it by chance!!

@nddy so if football is d ****** one sport in america does dat mean d other sport shouldn't be appreciated. since there r more dan one sport then both should be supported. it's just like saying cuz dis gurl is da biological daughter she should begiven wateva she wants and d adopted daughter should have to fend 4 herself!!!

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no one's comparing soccer with AM football. so read before making silly comments.

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please Your illustration about America  is just whack , you should be able to understand that America is not a Soccer nation, Football is number one not Soccer, how many Americans like soccer. A few

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OK, I hear you.

Really, I am quite tired now (it's late here) - but so that we can understand each other better, can you explain why you thought that my illustration to Nferyn using food wasn't relevant? What did you think I meant by using that illustration?

Also, you seem to feel that equal rights and equal opportunity mean the same. Why do you think this is the case?

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Damygurl,

Honestly, I do have stuff to say... but why should I say it if it ends up upsetting/offending you and I'm still not able to communicate? What positive thing would I then have achieved?

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LOL!when did crap become a cuss word? and who told ya i'm in a kinda of state. i believe strongly in equal rights and i'm gon defend it anyday but i don't gt worked up over i just get annoyed at peeps who be sayin stuff and it last about 2seconds. after dat post i've danced to lighters up had my alltime fav sht bread cookie so don't worry about me just say wateva u wanna say cuz i will say wats on my mind. u say somefin to me!! and ifi got a strong opinion about it i'm gon say wat i gotta say!!!!!and plz make me understand ur point cuz according to u i don't!!

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Damygurl,

I don't think you've understood what I've said at all. In fact, you seem to be talking about something completely different altogether.

Well, from the swear words you're using and the number of exclamation marks you've used, I'd say you're really wound up over the whole thing, and I don't think there's any point in debating anything with anyone in that kind of state. So I'll leave you and wish you good luck in your pursuit of equal 'rights' (whatever those may be).

Nferyn,

I won't prolong this debate, because I know you have an appointment to keep on this thread. But I'm still somewhat dubious about the notion of legal equality - what do you mean by this? Do you mean laws that apply equally to men and women, or that men and women should have the same laws applied to them, or what? Please explain.

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did i say she wanna go to college cuz her bro is going According to me i said dat  

Equal opportunity is a descriptive term for an approach intended to give equal access to an environment or benefits, such as education, employment, health care, or social welfare to all, often with emphasis on members of various social groups which might have at some time suffered from discrimination. This can involve the hiring of workers and other such practices. Social groupings generally emphasized in such a way are those delineated by aspects of gender, race, or religion. so oppourtunity and rights sorta r da same.

Do you want to be told to get back to work a couple of weeks after you've had your first child, as men are asked to do for example? why r u guyz mixing up havin equal rights with wanting to be a man. we don't wanna be a man that is we don't wanna change our gender. wat we want and wat we r saying is dat we want and yea i heard wat u said about d talking interms of wat i want. well i can tell u all women want equal rights.

When d people who protested against slavery wrere protesting did they say i want nope they said we want freedom!!!!!!!!

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@Ka

I understand what you're saying, but I'm surely not seeing the fight for equal opportunities as one defined by the boundaries that men face. Ultimately, we have an organisation of society that is catering to specific needs and wants of men. the fight for equal gender opportunities does not limit itself to women being able to do everything men can do, but rather to ensure that women have all opportunities to be their best.

At this stage, we're so far removed from that ultimate goal that some basic legal equality would already be a big step forward.

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i understand wat he is saying but how is dat gon be possible. u want us to do our own thing but da rights we want and r fightin 4 r d onez da guyz already have but we don't have. we want equal rights in dat we wanna be treated da same way and givinf da same rigts as men.!!!! wat u r talking about might apply to some other stuff but we talkin gender equality and it's btw 2 genders. take 4 example dis 2 twins. A boi and gurl!!!da parents favor da boi more dan d gurl so she goes protestin to da parents i want u guys to favor and luv me too. da parent already decided to send da boi to college but they want d gurl to stay at home. wat is she supposed to fight 4? da rightsto go to skool like her brotha right? so u c ur theory can't really apply when wetalking gender rights and gender quality. cuz dagurl can go and say cuz shewant to have her own thing her parents should open a shop 4 her when wat she really wants is to go to college too.

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Ka,

It just happens to be that women have to deal with a legacy of extreme oppression all over the globe. If you only fight for enlarging the cake without fighting for equal gender opportunities, women are still going to be left with the crumbs, and that only if they're allowed at the table at all.. Happiness is a relative phenomenon: you look at your immediate peers and if the equation is positive, you'll be happy, even if you have much less than the person you'll never be in contact with..

I don't really understand your second paragraph. Can you ellaborate the argument a little?

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Nferyn,

Why should feminists fight for only equal opportunities? Why not fight for total opportunity? What if the opportunities available to men in a particular society (which are the same opportunities that feminists want women to have) aren't enough to guarantee anyone's happiness?

It's better to think in terms of absolutes rather than relatives. This is one of the reasons I'm somewhat suspicious of feminists when they use the word 'equality'. Why not fight your own fight? Why define what you want in terms of what other groups have?

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