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Is South Africa Fit To Host The 2010 Football World Cup?

Has South Africa forgotten its history?

Mozambique's government says about 20,000 of its citizens have fled South Africa because of the wave of attacks on foreigners in the past two weeks.

In South Africa, at least 50 people- from Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Somalia and Pakistan- have died and a further 25,000 have sought shelter because of the attacks. President Thabo Mbeki has urged the mobs to remember that for years South Africans were given refuge in the countries of those now being attacked.

Did your country support the ANC during the struggle against apartheid? Would you think twice about visiting South Africa now given the recent attacks on foreigners? Is South Africa fit to host the 2010 football World Cup? Send us your views.

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Is south Africa fit ? The answer is squarely NO.

Imagine you go there as a tourist and these criminals see you as someone who is out to steal their jobs. You can get killed or wounded. Who are you going to sue?

They say people are stealing their jobs, what about those who have worked years in Europe, USA or elswehere in Africa then went there to invest money in small businesses such as opening a store?

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I really think we are talking about the same thing only that you seem only to support the view that to advocate uniting or unity in cultures has absolutely nothing to do with Africa's development plan. I agree that tribalism exists and still exists in cultures you state have good governance and are developing. However to miss the correlation of the levels of unification in that society prior to they being developed to the efforts of "unification" of is to really overlook an important factor.

Botswana's economic status does have a lot to do with its united culture because it creates the atmosphere for cohesiveness. We are not talking about a cumbaya, everyone holding hands saying they love one another, singing and dancing the night away unification of Africa, far from it. The unity that is advocated here is the one which spells out the similarities the continent shares both in terms of history and culture and furthermore emphasising on those similarities by educating its population about itself. If many Nigerians truly understood the history of S.Africans in an in depth fashion many would not be making blockhead statements on this forum and vice versa for the S. Africans who are grossly ignorant to the people who are their neighbours. Same argument can be used for Nigerians within Nigeria. I don't suppose you think its relevant to know the peoples that live within your own country. Even if the government were to be fiscally responsible and Nigeria has some sort of rapid development with sustainable infrastructure the underlying differences would undermined that progress. I can argue on that point all day with examples.

China experienced a cultural revolution before experiencing its economic revolution. The Chinese have always had great leadership and leadership structures dating back through time. That was never the problem in trying to catch up or be on par with the developed world. Implementing rules and regulations to govern the people was not the defining factor which influenced their sudden growth and the borrowing on capitalist ideas to open their markets was not the solution that brought them progress but the identity of the people itself in relation to the outside world. China had to come together under a communist regime in a way almost no culture or people has emphasised, isolating themselves from the west to create an identity/culture that would be respected the world over. The great cultural implosion preceded again preceded any true development. Europe is no different from this example and the middle east who by the way unified under religious grounds.

I agree that leadership and good governance is and important ingredient that would generate the well being of any peoples but if you think unifying tribes or peoples is an irrelevant component to your equation of success, as I have stated earlier its is a recipe for disaster based on historical evidence.

I am not trying to change your view point only that to stop advocating the unification of any country or continent both in terms of creating dynamic cultures and facilitating brotherhood is weakening the society at large rather than strengthening it.

I think you gave gave an example earlier what relevance was it to a society to emphasis unity rather than providing your children adequate schools in which to prepare them for the future, well let me put this to you, how would your child learn anything in school if everyday she was being fought by other students in the school who didn't like the fact that she was from one ethnic group in the country and then before you know it the parents started fighting and not long after the state then the country. I know you will say good governance would legislate laws to protect your child now but you and I know that has been done before in many other nations and that really doesn't solve the problem just sugarcoats it.

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Here is another problem for you to consider. Botswana's economic status has absolutely little to do with united culture but more of people who are under good government. If you have good leadership, you can bring together the most divided, tribalistic people to come together and focus on a cause aside from their issues. Botswana, Saudi arabia, most of europe is that way.

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Though what happened in SA s a very bad thing but then. . . FIFA has already made their decision.

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I'll get back to you on the china issue and South Africa as well cause those were the very countries I was going to use to support my points. Have to log off now though.

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I will pick an example from within Africa. South Africa for one. Has remained polarized for decades. Forget what is happening now but that country has never really had a united white force nor has it had a united black force and that is the case even to this day. Ghana remains divided on issues but the people have realized that a focus on progress instead of the divisions is the way to go. They are not necessarily united in their ideologies or cultures but in the fact that individually people have come to realize that for their own good, in order to have a progressive society, each person has to play his or her own part. Another example is Kenya.

We could go on and on with this but I am sorry, I simply do not buy the idea that we must all come together in a hug before we can all understand that we must all play our part to build a nation. We have in advanced countries today people from different cultures and regions of the world working side by side, not cause they agree but cause they understand that doing their part is the only way they can build a better life for themselves and for their families, at the end of the day. Even bitter neighbours live side by side for years cause they understand it is what they must do to progress. We do not have to get to a point where we claim we have extinguished the flames of tribalism ( which I do not see as the problem), before we can say we are ready to make progress in that country. We can do that despite of our differences.

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Africa's history is quite unique compared to other civilizations which is why its case study should be approached in a very different manner. I know we might go off topic now but for my edification I'd like an example of such societies that you are referencing to that points to the evidence of your view. I beg to differ when you say "they do not understand the cultures they are moving into let alone agree with the idealogies. The "hardwork" is the culture, even then economics/development, though a major driving factor for people moving to the US/Europe, is not the only reason.

The reason I mentioned Botswana as a case study to bolster my point is, if one studies the society you will realize that the unifying factor that brought about increased stability and ecomony is not soley as a result of their wanting or realizing the fact that they needed to develop but what necessitated the desire to develop which are the factors that contributed to the outcome. There is pratically "one tribe" that exists in Botswana, their "culture" of peaceful coexistence fostered by their cohesiveness in government because of lack of divisions and the willingness to tackle a "unifying problem" i.e lack of real resources forced the government to lay down the tracks for implementation of policies which gave them the opportunity to send their young out to recieve world class education and incentive to return back to "DEVELOP" their country.

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The very fact that even within tribes and cultures, there continues to exist serious divisions, ought to clue us all in to the fact that maybe Unity is not necessarily the solution to our problem. Change starts from the bottom up,that I agree with. If Africans can go abroad and immediately learn to act right and work hard, even in a society where they practically do not understand the culture let alone agree with most of the ideaologies, I believe that we do not need to unite Africans FIRST before we get progress in Africa.

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You say we should build Africa towards progress. I say the underlying problem that hounds this statement is the lack of Unity and understanding amongst it people, whether within a country or the overall continent. If some how excused or left unchecked will result in an escalating probability of regression even if that society somehow achieves economic progress. Compare the societies of South African and Botswana today.  

You cannot expect Nigerians to begin to progress when there is the underlying problem of tribalism, misunderstanding and stereotyping of cultures. If you just begin to progress in terms of infrastructure, politics and economics, where is the evidence that such societies have been able to sustain this progression without encouraging somesort of unity. Look at South Africa now, is their biggest problem their infrastructure or their political stability or how to sustain these achievements at this point in time, the country is in the beginning stages of suspicion of one another and likely divisions, if they refuse to address this problem and reeducate their populous they are in for it. There is unity is likeminded thinkers but no unity is just having the best infrastructure or top of the line economy, not sustainable in the long run.

Change starts from the bottom up not the other way round and if they are not careful S. Africa is about to become and example of such a tragedy.

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If you are a pessimist that is fine for you but I do not know why you feel to let me know of it. I call them dreamers cause I know they are mostly dreamers and more talk and little action. From the 1970's to date I have watched them come and go and not much substance do they leave for us. I am sorry but accept that I do not see the world through the same lens as you do. I know what I mean and I stand by it regardless of what you think. I can not help you but I believe AFRICA UNITE and ONE AFRICA is not what we need. We instead need DEVELOPMENT despite our differences as we will never all see things the same way and we will always have the borders we have today. Trying to continue to make a mountain out of it has yet to heal or help in anyway.

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Can I suggest you get over not seeing the unification of African peoples in terms of economics, political stability and brotherhood.

"Africa has NEVER been united" does not mean African can never unite. I don't know the definition to you of "Unity" means we are somehow advocating the whole of Africa to become one people with one language and one President(which is not that bad of an ideas seeing that it would foster coexistence between the peoples).

How do you build a continent without somesort of cohesion or strife for Unity in some form. There is no progress without unity.

maybe you should ask the right questions of what people mean by African Unity and a united Africa before calling anyone delusional in their thought process.

A pessimist is one whose attitude and perception is void of hope, for hope is the achievement of the impossible even in the face of impossibility. Some people call such individuals who advocate these views as dreamers and delusional but if one sifts through history the greatest changes have begun are with people that many declared dreamers or delusional.

Something to marinate on.

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Allow me to concur with you RSA on the very accurate points you have made above, unfortunately many hear fall victim to the same rantings that the same south Africans who committed these heinous crimes subscribe to.

I do believe the reason Nigerians are venting so much on this forum surpasses the events that took place. They do experience xenophobia and a skewed perception of Nigerians as a whole in South Africa, not to exclude what some dubious Nigerians are doing in SA is untrue but one cannot view a people by the bad examples that a few portray which is the point you were trying to make.

Continue to educate your people on who the majority of Nigerians really are and Likewise we will do the same. Every nations have faults but as long as the majority do not share the views of the naive, illiterate few, there is hope for brighter future.

As far as the World Cup is concerned. I will not attend in protest and will continue to advocate it not being held in South Africa to join in the forces that will put pressure on your relaxed government to step up its efforts. It took too long for them to respond to last week's crisis, not a good sign, what if something like this repeats itself when the world is watching. if things change maybe I'll change my mind too

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No way ! Very hostile set of humans .

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I have to agree that South Africa is probably the most qualified to host the competition. Apologies to North Africans (I dont know much about the state of things in North Africa).

I never thought SA should be hosting the world cup in the first place because of security reasons. I have actually refused to visit SA in the past because of security fears. I have a few friends there but I am unable to convince myself that it's safe to go there.

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Forasmuch as i love Nelson Mandela's South Africa, i was not pleased that South Africans will soo soon chase Africans off their Country.

Hosting the world in 2010 is a big global event, and i trust that South Africa will be a better host.But the evnts of the past weeks have cast doubts in mind.

So i will only be assured if the "Special One" Nelson Mandela gives an assuring address to Africans and the World that South Africa is safe.

Till i hear from Mandela, South Africa is not a good host.

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Compared to the rest of Africa, I believe SA is the most qualified. The decision has already been made and even with recent incidents, it still remains the best place in Africa for the games considering available infrastructure and the fact that the country has shown over the years to be more qualified to take on that feat.

As for the "AFRICA UNITE" and the "ONE AFRICA" rants, can I suggest that we get over that ( IMHO) DELUSION already?? Africa has NEVER been united and the changes of that happening are next none. So why continue with such a delusion instead of focusing on building the continent even with the division that remains. I believe most of it is based on people's perception of how united africans are. A united Africa will not necessarily fix the problems we have in Africa today. Hugs and kisses are not the solution but dedication to progress no matter how different we see things, is more likely to help change things.

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No they're not.

Before the slaughter innocent "Mozambican looking "spectators

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Were are the jobs in SA that they accused immigrants of taking?

SA will end up like Zimbabwe in less than 30yrs, wait until the whites have trickled back to Europe.

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@RSA

You shout 'One Africa', yet you attempt to bolster your apology with the claim that Nigerians were not really the targets of these attacks. Arent people from Mozambique and Zimbabwe your fellow africans too?

Thsi was not restricted to hostels as you say. The street violence in Jo'Burg was widespread. Large swathes of the town was engulfed in violence.

there's no excuse for this kind of thing. Violence on account of loss of jobs to foreigners is inexcusable. Afterall, it's one of the root causes of racism in the US, with KKK extremists alleging that blacks were taking jobs from whites in the 50s.

It's a well-known fact that South Africans in general loathe nigerians. It's a fact i've heard from many reputable Nigerians that have been there and come back. Even careless remarks thrown about in both editions of Big Borther Africa point ot this fact. The brutal exploitation of Nigerians by SA companies is a testament to that fact.

So now we've gotten smart. Enough of that african brotherhood bullshit. We hate you fuckers too.

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Allow me to first apologise to millions of african in the continet and abroad for the situation in my country,I dont know if it is neccesary to explain and correct some of the misleading reporting in this forum and some media.

The attacks happen in the poorest area inthe country,residents say the attacks are carried out by hostel dwellers,who are believed to be paid by a third force.Hostel dwellers are people who come mostly from Kwazulu natal to look for jobs and they end up staying in the hostels mostly men.this people are mostly zulu's(if you've been following our history you will remember that we almost went into civil war,zulu's(inkata freedom party) and the African Nation Party(the current gorvement).

Who ever payed this people knew that the was a feeling amongst poor people that immigrants mostly from Zimbabwe and Mozambique are taking their jobs because they take any money and that they are responsible for the crime wave in the country where 20000 people are murdered every year.They(third force) knew that they need something to trigger the feeling of this poor and desparate people.Majority of us where looking in despair,shame and disbelief.I think this took us all by suprise.Nigeria didn't suffer as much as it was pointed out,most Nigeria dont live in the squater camps as this places are known.

Hosting the world cup is a challenge because it take out every little dirty laundry and put it in public,there will be lot of issues that will come out before we host and I hope that our goverment will be able to deal with it.

South African preparation is well on track,road,airports,stadia,hotels ,rail and transport will be an asset to south africa for many years to come,world cup will leave a lasting legacy on and off the pitch.

Thousand and thousand of us march accross our cities to show that we South African loves our brothers,we apologise and we will continue appologising until Africa feel that we decerve pardon.

Africa Unite,and One Africa!

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