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Where Are The Java Programmers?

I need a mentor as I started learning java newly.Although am beginning to grasp what it actually entails.I need an expert in the field to put me thru certain things.

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@ekt_bear, the python's syntax is smaller but the java code makes more sense to read.

-create an empty integer list x

-fill it with numbers

-create another int(float) list y

-fill it with sin of the numbers in list x

This also shows the amount of control or functionality a language like java can give you. Any language like java just has to be that complex to deliver.

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Here is a list comprehension in Python (python's version of the map operator).

import math

x = range(-9, 9)

y = [math.sin(t) for t in x]

Here is what the variables look like:

>>> x = range(-9, 9)

>>> y = [math.sin(t) for t in x]

>>> x

[-9, -8, -7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]

>>> y

[-0.4121184852417566, -0.9893582466233818, -0.6569865987187891, 0.27941549819892586, 0.9589242746631385, 0.7568024953079282, -0.1411200080598672, -0.9092974268256817, -0.8414709848078965, 0.0, 0.8414709848078965, 0.9092974268256817, 0.1411200080598672, -0.7568024953079282, -0.9589242746631385, -0.27941549819892586, 0.6569865987187891, 0.9893582466233818]

And here I guess is the Java equivalent:

ArrayList<int> x = new ArrayList();

for (int i=-9; i<=8; i++)}

x.add(i);

}

ArrayList<int> y = new ArrayList();

for (int t : x){

y.add(Math.sin(t))

}

Isn't the Python version so much more clear and concise than the Java version?

Python version say, "Take this list x, apply this function sin() to each element of the list and give me back a new list."

Java version says the same thing, but in a more clunky manner.

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yea that first class function does make a big difference

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Not really. Some languages really are just more concise than others. First class functions make a big difference. The map operator again makes a big difference in expressiveness.

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^^ Um why do you hate them ?

What language do you use instead?

I dont hate java, but Objective C i haaaate it, really such a crappy language

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i am a savvy java programmer, i dont mind helping.

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pls people help me i just got admission to study computer science in a university pls i need some one to tell me wat to expect in my first year thanks.

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See question o,

Guess everybody hates ant. I know it is not an Ide or compiler blah blah blah. Just used it for illustration. Get it

Okay in the ant build file you actually say make this directory (referring to the package) after all a package is simply a folder. I know for you this example will not make sense but ask a beginner using Netbeans to explain the concept of package.

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dude are u sure you know what you are saying here. IDE and Ant are two totally different things

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@gozzilla:  At the risk of deviating slight, I have 2 final questions:

- Excuse my ignorance but how exactly are java packages handled differently in an IDE (whether you use ant or not)?

- To the best of my knowledge, ant is a tool used to amongst other things compile source code and not build source code or am I missing something?

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back in the late nighties early 2000. IDE's were crap. so beginners tend to start with notepad

these days it will be insane not to use an ide . what are you trying to prove ??

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@gozzilla: So are you saying that a beginner must always learn java the hard way?

The official java tutorial from Sun recommends using an IDE to learn java and I would suggest that they in all probability have a little more experience with these things than your good self

http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/index.html

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you most be kidding me.

using an IDE ? overkill ?

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I guess Seun is not "really" a programmer. I say this with no disrespect at all - nairaland forum, tells me he is a great man . But to say there is no difference between learning on the command line and learning with an IDE is doing great injustice to any beginner.

You realise that using an IDE to learn java programming is a complete overkill. Imagine coding HelloWorld (a five line < 100word application) with Netbeans. Not only will you end up thinking Java is synonymous with Netbeans, your programming will be limited. You begin to believe any thing you need is out there when in reality you need to look in before looking out. How do you do the simple mistakes that ingrain a programming habit into you. Using an IDE knocks the fun off for a beginner programmer. Yes, if you have had experience with another programming language then absolutely you don't need to go through that path again.

But make no mistake the joy of programming is always the joy of programming. Getting it right after hours, to discover it was just a spelling error. I promise you you won't be forgetting in a hurry. You realise that is what every java programmer loves about the free Bruce Eckel book online. It just makes sense. Not the easiest Java tutorial available, but sure it makes sense.

So my advice go get notepad ++. It has got great highlighting and some useful pluggin. Forget JEdit. It is another steep learning curve.

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For a beginner or student learning Java for the first time, I think using an IDE like JCreator is really recommended. It's not like other IDEs that generate source codes automatically like Netbeans. Stick to Jcreator and you'd learn Java programming from the scratch.

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@Poster,

There're lots n lots to learn in programming especially, a heavily implemented Object-Oriented Language like Java. I hope you wouldn't be discouraged though. Everything in Java is OO unlike C++ which combines both procedural and OO. If you could get a good book in Java such as Head First Java then, you would grasp the fundamentals of the language in the shortest period.

Make sure that, as you learn, you're also writing short programs (with Netbeans 6.8 as advised earlier by some posters. You might also try JCreator.) in other to fully practice what you've learnt. This would ensure faster assimilation. Also, try and be familiar with programming from the CLI. Doing this will help you to be able to 'think' like the compiler. You'll understand what I mean when you try it.

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The thing to remember is that an IDE is just a tool and which will greatly assist a rookie developer in learning the fundamentals as quickly as possible.  In my view one of the key things about being a developer is the ability to produce quality solutions in as short a time as possible and the IDE helps you avoid time consuming errors such as simple spelling mistakes etc.  Using System.out.println() as an example, whether you type it in full in Notepad or select the methods and/or members from a list in an IDE the bottom line is you must still know the syntax and frankly I don't see how typing it out in full helps the learning process in this instance.

A good developer will always make good use of good tools

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please i really need someone to help me know the industrial application of java in nigeria. plzzzzzzzzzzzz

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So are you trying to tell me that because you use Javabeans to write an application means that your application will be better than an application written with notepad? Knowing how to use javabeans is not the same thing as knowing java. Chairman, don't get me wrong, nobody is saying not to learn IDE's, I'm saying learn without IDEs. IDEs help you with debugging, tracking the lines of your code in large applications and things like that and generally making your life easier as a coder but do you need that when you are a beginner, still trying to know the difference between int and Integer, and writing just a couple of lines of code?

Of course you can learn java by using javabeans but I recommend that when you know your beans, you can start using javabeans.

, and by the way, i didnt go through hell to learn java, stop exagerating, lets just say I learnt how to float before swimming. And also, seun and Donpuzo, you guys still haven't mentioned anything as to how javabeans or IDEs help beginners. Last time I checked, the greatest people didn't follow the easy way.

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@Seun. I wonder why people want the hard way when they can get things done with ease,

When i program web based applications with php, i use phpdesigner, it automatically write codes, when i start the initialization.

That does not mean that i don't know what i am coding, after all it is based on what intended i saw those codes. And it sure make one better after all

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The fact that you went through hell in order to learn Java doesn't mean it's the best way.  Current developers are lucky to have better tools at their disposal; making them suffer in the stone age for no reason isn't right.  The fact is, Java with an IDE is 100 times better than Java without an IDE.  If you don't know your iDE, you don't know Java.  That is all.  Do students that start out with Wordperfect for DOS know Ms Office 2007 better?

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thanks bossman for buttressing my point. IDEs make work too easy. Things like automatic completion of keywords is not helpful when you are a beginner. IDEs are recommended when the individual gets past the beginner level like you said.

@seun:its just an opinion, if you dont buy it, move to the next shop. Java certification also include java beans convention but it also includes simple traps like simple spelling which you cannot learn if javabeans does all the spelling for you automatically. You can rest now sha, you've made ur point, your opinion

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Just get Netbeans and stop wasting your time.  You can learn to drive without a car, but it's pointless. 

Whatever you can learn on the command line can also be learnt with the IDE, so there is no point.

Get the IDE, play with it for a while, and you can go back to the command line if you still want to.

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An IDE certainly makes you more productive, however for a complete beginner, it's actually better to learn Java without using an IDE. A basi c text editor such as textpad or Notepad++ is better. The IDE automates things and does some things for you that you may need to know how it works outside an IDE. path/classpath settings, etc. Having said that, it's better to use an IDE once one gets bas the beginner level.

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Yes, you can learn Java without an IDE. You can learn to eat without a plate.

You can learn to drive without a car. You can learn to program without a computer.

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If you don't use an IDE with Java, then there is something wrong with you. That's all I'm going to say. Nobody uses Java without an IDE; the IDE is part of Java. Netbeans is preferred, because that's what Sun officially supports, but Eclipse is not too bad either. The IDE is part of Java. Thanks.

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Hi guys, I also need a java mentor.

I have started learining the basics but i dont use any of the IDEs for my codes cos they do everything for you. I use notepad for my codes. By the time i am completely comfortable with this and i can debug without any software help, when i move on to IDEs, it will be a breeze. I recommend this approach to all beginners.

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Agreed. But you don't have to use IDE to learn java programming. You learn the basics then learn how to use the IDE. Thats my opinion

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what is in j2ee? pls i'm supposed to be doing a training on it. i would like to know if anyone has an idea what it entails and business/job spaces for j2ee fellas. tanks

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@Birniwa I intend to stick to your advice because if I know the nitty gritty,I will go places.Thanks.

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D guy mentioned that he just started learning to program with java, so I think it will be much more adviceable if he would use Java IDEs like JCreator to create his codes, reason is that it will help him to design his own codes by himself and not relying on auto-generated code IDEs like Netbeans.

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Yes. Check out this Java lib: http://code.google.com/p/stmlib/

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I should be able to help.  Count me in.  What's your first project?

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Bros Seun,I have downloaded the tutorials.I am reading.I have started to think in an object oriented programming way lately.The whole thing is vast.I really someone to put in the context of the real world programming;I find some aspects pretty easy,example awt and swing make more sense to me but having a mentor who will mentor me will do a great deal.Although am not yet thru with my study,i intend to go ahead to work on some simple softwares to see how much I have been assimilating and having someone to guide me will do a great deal.

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Everything you need to know is here: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/

But you can ask specific questions here. Advice: get Netbeans 6.8 and work with it.

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Bros Seun,I will consult you soon for guidance,let me do more reading like one week.Thanks for the support.

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