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Are The Ten Commandments Really Necessary?

The ten commandments were handed over to the isrealites on mount Sinai by God himself, speaking directly to them. But God always allow for exceptions, because he also tells them to do things opposite to the commandments or refuses to punish his favourite persons if they break the commandments.

That is why I ask if the commandments were necessary at all.

The commandments;

I Thou shall have no other Gods before me.

Except you divide the Gods into three - the father, the son and the holy spirit, then you can worship the three God as one but you must worship the son more and equate him with almighty God. Also you can add Mother of God and saints as you deem it fit.

2. Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.

Except, the graven image is a Roman Cross with which God the son was crucified, or an Ark of the tabernacle made of wood according to Gods specifications, or of images of Jesus on the cross, or images of Mary and Nativity. And any other image God commands to be worshiped.

3. Thou shall not bow down thyself to them or serve them.

Except all the images in the second commandment.

4. Thou shall not take the name of the lord thy God in vain.

Except in a court or law, or by pastors claiming to see and talk to God daily and by Christians generally when faced with a difficult situation.

5. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Except, the Sabbath day is no more the original sabbath day ordained by God, but has been shifted to the day romans dedicate to the sun (sunday), and even then apart from going to church, nobody keeps the day holy.

6. Honour thy Father and Mother.

Except, they are of different religion from the religion of the Bible, then you can dishonour or even kill them.

7. Thy shall not kill.

Except they are unbelievers, then they are not worthy of living. Even if they are believers you can kill them as a sacrifice to god.

8. Thou shall not commit adultery.

Except, You are a man. A man can have multiple wives and concubines. It is a married woman that is forbidden from sleeping with another man.

9. Thou shall not steal.

Except God commands you to steal land from unbelievers.

Also you will notice that the first act of moses after coming down with the Tablets (commandments) was to command the Sons of levi to slaughter every other man in the camp, numbering about 3,000 men just because they disobeyed God.

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@davidylan

QUOTES FROM DAVIDYLAN

 Re: Are The Ten Commandments Really Necessary?

« #22 on: August 04, 2008, 03:19 PM »  

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Quote from: ayinba1 on August 02, 2008, 07:51 PM

@David,

Islamic glasses? shuo you don meet Fhemmmy before? Please explain how the sabbath day was done away with and how Sunday was arrived at?

What a hypocrite!   Here demanding "explanation" and yet failing to do so when pertinent questions were asked of her on previous threads. Responding to your likes is a waste of time.

Quote from: ~Lady~ on August 02, 2008, 08:19 PM

I agree, I want to see the scripture that says that the Sabath is done away with. David likes using scripture, I want him to use it here too.

*silly christians twisting the Bible to validate themselves.*

Another "christian" in name only, a modern day pharisee, blind, lost and in need of spiritual guidance.

Mark 2:23And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

  24And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

  25And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

  26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

  27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

  28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath

Madam "i know it all" ~Lady~,

- Was Christ WILFULLY DISOBEDIENT to the law of the sabbath?

- What was the real message in verse 27?

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

- If Christ had broken the sabbath, "a sin in the old testament", how did HE ascend the cross as the SINLESS ONE?

Colosians 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

  17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

~Lady~, was brother Paul also a "silly" christian simply twisting scripture to validate himself?

 

PLEASE, my brother, the bone of contention between JESUS and the pharisees was not wether it was lawful to keep the sabbath ,rather on what was lawful to do on the sabbath day.

From the places you quoted from the bible, Jesus healed on the sabbath,the pharisees

queried the healing because it was on the sabbath. In reply Jesus asked them why they go to the pit and bring out their sheep if it falls into the pit on the sabbath day. The pharisees were silent. Meaning if you can save the life of an animal on a sabbath day, it is not unlawful for me to save a human life on the same sabbath day. In matthew 12;12 Jesus said, How much thin is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath day.

Again the disciplesl ploughed corn and ate on the sabbath when they were very hungry after a long journey the pharisees accused them of breaking the sabbath. In defence Jesus asked them what David and his followers did the day they were very hungry after

a long journey. In reply they said that they went to the temple and ate the bread that was reserved for the priest alone. Meaning if it was not counted as sin for them because

they were very hungry, the disciples should be excused for their action.

Jesus went further to tell them that He is the lord of the sabbath. Please be sincere to your Christianity ,does any of these statements show that the sabbath has been done away with?

Again you quoted colossian 2;16- Let no one judge you in meat or in drink

or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or sabbath days.

I want you to make further research in the bible. You will find out that there are more than four types of Sabbathsi n the bible. among them, sabbath of passover, sabbath of atonement, see Leviticus3;27-32, for sabbath of atonement.These Sabbathsare called ceremonial Sabbaths.they are different from the seventh day sabbath, which God gave in the ten commandment as a memorial of creation.

So, Paul made the statement you quoted in colossi an because after the final sacrifice made by jesus on the cross, some people where still telling the early colossian christians

to celebrate these fulfilled sabbaths. For example Jesus was crucified on the day of atonement which was also called a sabbath, hence after his death the ceremonial sabbath of atonement came to an end since no more sacrifice was needed for the atonement of our sins. If you read further to colossians 2;17 paul called all these ceremonial observations a shadow of the things to come-meaning a temporary providence

made by God for the cleansing of sin waiting for the supreme  sacrifice made by Jesus.

So, the sabbath commanded by law is the seventh day sabbath that comes every seventh day of the week, that is every saturday. Please, for Christ sake it has not been

nullified Jesus, said in matthew 5;17-19 that he did not come to abolish the law, for until heaven and earth pass away no dot, that is fullstop or period will be removed from the law. Be sincere to yourself! has heaven and earth passed away? If no, how come

that the longest commandment in the bible has been done away with?

Please act, speak and reason like one who will be judged by the law of liberty. james 2;12.

Remain Blessed.

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The commandment is the commandment. Obeying it or disobeying it has nothing to do with the commandment, but the individuals  involved.

so what are u saying?

The bible says create no image for worship. I am asking u, are these images u listed being worshipped? do u know the meaning of worship?

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Your difference holds mo water. So because Buddhists and sango worshipers call the name pf God in vain should mean Christians and Jews should do the same. I have news for you, it is not a commandment for Buddhists and Hindus but for Jews and Christians. It is following the Laws of a religion that makes one a member of that religion.

I am glad you are not asked to translate the Bible into your language, you will mislead your people greatly. The commandment cannot possibly be more explicit, it says (once more) "Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth". It did not mention anything about worship, and neither did the commandment make room for any exceptions.

We are talking about holiness as regard to keeping the Sabbath holy, as contained in the commandments and not holy as in an individual.

I see you are not in support of following the commandments literally.

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@ Noetic,

What do you mean by asking the what calling the name of God in vain has to do with ten commandments, The forth commandment says "thou shall not take the name of thy God in Vain" if you have forgotten go back and read it.

It does not matter what the Cross and Crucifix signify, The second commandment clearly states "Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of [b]anything [/b]that is in heaven above, or that is in earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth". The commandment says any image and that includes Cross, Crucifix or image of the last supper.

Christians and Jews have killed Moslems and Jews in retaliation from time immemorial, it happened in the bible and it is is still happening today. Ask Jos Moslems during the last riots.

In both the new and old testement, holiness means a day you do not engage in any form of commercial activity, social or political activity.

Christians condones stealing and corruption, the modern name for it in the church is called prosperity or blessing. You find someone who is jobless, without a bicycle to his name suddenly buying a jeep. The pastor will make an example of that person as someone whom God has blessed. If the church does not condone stolen money, i am sure corruption will reduce, but then the churches need their share of the loot (tithes).

I do not get your reasoning how you relate the fact that the church condones fornication and adultery to emptiness and holes of atheism. My wife is a born again Christian and her church reeks of sexual immorality that she stopped going for a while.

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stealing and all forms of corruption is by choice and has nothing to do with religious affiliations.

adultery is by choice. And there are wages for sin.

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To help a person form good imaginative pictures in his heart pictures are very important. The pictures are not objects of worship, but familiarizes us with the source of our salvation. I can identify with a cross, cos Jesus died for me on a cross, and it was on that cross that HE declared that it is all over. I can identify with the image of the last supper cos the events of that supper are the only things he asked us to do in remembrance of Him.

I asked u for evidences of these events (Christians killing Muslims) that have happened in ur life time.

Holiness is the presence of the spirit in a person, that teaches him/her the truths about life, to avoid sin and spiritual death.

As for the sabath, I have a limited knowledge in that subject but believe that our service to the Father is what counts.

Good to know that ur wife has a good discerning spirit, which enabled her to abscond from a church where immorality is rampant. This spirit can only come from God.

I have met several unintelligent people postulating atheism, who cannot withstand a critical intellectual analysis of their disbelief. But that does not make me say all atheists are irrational or unintelligent. The same is ur case with Christianity.

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If the ten commandments are necessary, then;

Why do people call the name of GOD in vain numerous times every day?

Why do the bow at images of cross and revere the cross and crucifix?

Why are Christians and Jews alway eager to kill a Moslem or Arab in retaliation for thtem killing a christian?

Why is no Christian ready to Keep the sabbath day (no matter which day it is) holy?

Why is it children are to obey and honour pastors, priests and reverend fathers more than their parents?

Why are Christian encourage to steal, cheat and commit all other forms of corruption in the name of prosperity (as long as they pay tithes)?

Why is adultery condoned in the churches, you have many unmarried couples as members of a church, sometimes with numerous children or heavily pregnant?

And so on.

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Are The Ten Commandments Really Necessary? yes very very important more.

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which of the commandments? stoning of people to death because they pick sticks on the sabath or not boiling a baby goat in its mothers milk?

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Honestly it is just common sense really

Even if you are not a christian don't you think abiding by the ten commandments will keep you out of trouble?

Those commandments are there for your own good.

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I see some are for the sabbath and some are not for it. Interesting indeed.

What sayeth the scriptures? Can anyone show a passage nullifying the Creation seventh-day Sabbath? And if so, why did the followers of Jesus still keep it in accordance with the requirements of the 10 commandments?

Also can someone show a passage of scripture commanding, or indicating, that Sunday be kept as the Lord's day?

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I decided to post on this forum again in order to bring back the topic, as other threads are still asking the same question and i do not want us to keep repeated ourselves.

So the questions remain.

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@Davidylan.

Hey there.

@Weimar,

Thanks for the offer of a free bible study but I'm going to have to say, "Nay."

I have my own views on the Sabbath and you have yours, and there's absolutely no reason they should agree.That's a nice thing, isn't it? Yeah.

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@Noetic: Davidylan is like you ducking. Both of you are hiding behind your index fingers! You should take a stab at the question. Come on man, show some spunks.

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Hi Mad_Max

In the Jewish system, there are three kinds of law that God used to guide the people of Israel. The Moral law also known as the ten commandments, written by the figure of God, the ceremonial laws and the civil laws, written by Moses but dictated by God. It was not God's intention for these laws to be a burden to the people of God. The people of Israel failed to understand the purpose of these laws. In fact, they confusef matters by increasing or adding their traditions to these set of laws. No wonder Jesus categorically shun Jewish people and even used the word "woe" on the Israelites. When Christ died on the cross, the civil and ceremonial laws were abolish when Christ died. Some of the ceremonial laws required the people of God kill sacrifice and celebrate certain days. These days were also refered to Sabbaths. These Sabbaths were abolished but not the Sabbath in the Ten commandments. The Jewish people misunderstood Jesus when He healed lots of people on the Sabbath. The creator of the Sabbath comes and He showed them how to keep it but they just couldn't get it. According to Isaiah, 58, the Sabbath is a day to do good things a lot and not our own pleasures.

The same Jesus who died on the cross has a Jewish Heritage. Paul in Galathia 3:26, confirm that when we accept Christ, we belong to His family, for there is neither slave or bond, rich or poor, men and women, jew or gentile, for we are all family through the adoption of Christ via His blood. this means that we are now spiritual Israelites because we all believe in Christ. Only those who accepts Christ as their Savior and Lord have this privilege.

Now if you don't believe in Christ, then, it will be difficult for you to understand this truth. Only God can bring conviction to your heart. I can't do that for you. Mark 12:29 is only refering to the first ten commandments where Jesus is quoting from. I will be glad to give you a bible study so that you can understand the concept of trinity. This is not something we can just explain here. But I will give you a background:

Both Quran and the Bible explained the need for a sacrifice to be paid to ramsomed man from sin. Both believe that no man can died for man. That a messiah must come, who is both man and God at the same time. This is still mysteries to all. But it had to happend. The problem is not that Moslems do not believe in Messiah, it is just that it is not clear if Jesus who came some two thousand years ago is the messiah. Many passages in quran similar to the ones in the bible, especially the book of Isaiah definite about who charasteristics of Jesus. If you have time, read the book of Isaiah 53, 59 and 61 along with quran and also the books of Matt, Mark and John and see the relationship. If you have an open mind and willing use inductive and deductive methods of studying the Bible, God will show you mighty things. Arguing with people is not going to help you. You will need to study the Bible and Quran prayerfully to understand what God is telling you. I have the feeling that you are searching for truth. You will find it. But you can't find if you are desire to argue with people. God bless you.

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Where is davidylan? Are you gonna yellow belly yourself out of this matter? Please don' flip flop about this. I dislike flip flopper who flip flops more than the pool side rubber flip floppers.

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@Cayon: I surrendered by will to Allah, while I was still a spirit, a mere soul. I have continued to have that surrendering as a daily thing in my life. I accepted all the prophets, including Jesus, from Adam through Muhammad as my prophets.

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@ Lady

while u have attempted to offer biblibical reflections on ur opinion, I will however disagree with u but agree with david on this.

the reasons are obvious, which except for the jibes, david has explained.

a poser . . . .

God gave moses over 300 laws/ommandments in total, why do u attach so much importance to the 10 moses recieved on the mount and not the others?

while not attempting to restate what has been stated, refer back to davids post where Jesus said that the greatest commandment of all is Love. . . . . . . . . . love knows no sin and conquers all.

i bet u would have another opinion partainin to these commandments that also forbids women leaving their hair uncovered or wearing men clothing. . , . , . .

it is to avoid such misinterpretations and uninformed opinions that Jesus said that Love is d greatest commandment.

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@Cayon: I thought a person have to die before giving up the ghost? Yes or no? Give me an answer. david needs to answer the challenge, without trying to hide behind his own finger!

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And the greatest of all sins, in the sin of worship. Interestingly, it is what Iblis committed as a jinn/genie and it is the first sin immediately after Adam was created, prior to Eve's creation. I am giving you specifics. And Adam was created between Asr and magrib Salah timeon Friday! You have to match my information, otherwise you have produced nothing.

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@Davidylan: In worship; all worship is a sin, except what Allah permits. So when iblis refused prostration to Adam, that was a sin of Iblis. Whoever worships anything other than Allah is also a sinner. So your 3 godhead, trinity is obviously a sinful thing, since it is not a permissable thing. Those who refuse to acknowledge the presence and or the Lordship of God Almighty alone are also sinners. So the hindus, atheists, etc are just sinners like the Jews and Christians.

And in deeds and action; all deeds and actions are permissable, except what is forbidden. So unjust killing, sex outside prescribed marriage and in prescribed manners, severing ties of family relations, stealing and consumptions of goods in an illegal manner, etc, all are sins.

Now, David, its your turn. I am tired of your bruhaha. Ypu blow too much smoke, and no heat or fire.

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Define this by the quran first, you fraud.

Its easy to come here pretending to be asking questions you cannot answer.

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@Davidylan: And since you do not have any understanding of your religion, its better i teach you. What is the definition of sin? What constitute a sin? Are all sins equal? Is there a sin greater than all?

Finally, I gave my own opinion of hanging pictures on the walls, rather than keeping them somewhere else. It sometimes lead to personal ego, especially a striking desired person who comes out in the pictures, with great personality. The human mind loves showing off. A good heart have to shun things like that. That is Jihad all by itself.

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no thanks, i dont respond to clueless hypocrites. I invite an explanation from you on the muslim section . . . for instance go talk to them about hanging pictures on the wall.

I sincerely implore everyone else to ignore olabowale. Responding to his laughable "invitations for explanation" is to encourage a spammer.

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@Weimar:

In the light of your statement above, would you consider Mark 12 Verse 29 correct, or incorrect as it is written in plain and readable English, without a need for any INTERPRETATION?

@Mad_Max:

I am sensing that your god is human and Jewish? How do you therefore explain the statement made by Jesus about coming not to abolish the laws and the prophets, but to fulfill it, and, further his saying that whoever so unfulfill the littliest of the laws, and, encourages any to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven? Now tell me what station is the least in the Kingdom of heaven, except Hellfire or the Christian's fire of lake?

If Jesus, your human Jewish god hence from the above flouting of the sabbath has so much disregard sabbath, what reflection is it to the "I have not come to abolish the laws and the prophets, ?" Do you find agreement between the two or disagreement? Which is right? Who have told the truth, Jesus, you who assume that he is god and can do as he wills, including going against his own earlier statement, or the fiction writers of the Bible? Or is there a better opinion from you, an explanation that will satisfy an enquiring minds, like mine?

@Davidylan: I invite an explanation from you as I have of Mad_Max.

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this post is the only reason i have bothered to post in this section again. Excellent summation, those who prefer to remain lost wont see the import of your post.

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You keep forgetting that Christ was a JEW. The Lord of the Sabbath says nothing about Christians and whether the sabbath is binding on us, and the books to which you refer are in the old testament books, which describe jewish laws and customs and God's covenant with the Jews. The Lord of the Sabbath implies that he might be a Jew but he is also God, and is ABOVE the Sabbath and is not bound by it. He demonstrates this by flouting the Sabbath whenever he wills, much to the consternation of the religious leaders of the day. But following the sabbath or not doesn't affect one's salvation, so I guess it's a matter of choice.

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yes thay are, but , the letter kills

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~Lady~. That is very explicit. I believe the Sabbath day is still binding. Jesus' statement: "I am the Lord of the Sabbath," confirms that He instituted the law of the Sabbath in both Exodus 20 and 31. The statement indirectly alluded that Christ is the creator of the Sabbath. This will mean that He first initiated the keeping of the Sabbath at creation. This also mean that the Sabbath is one of the early, solid blessings He gave to man as a gift, after man was created. In fact, it would seem that mankind first had their first party with God on the Sabbath. No wonder the Bible says that after God has created everything on the Seventh day, He rested from all His work and blessed the Sabbath day. Gen. 2:2-3.

The questions now is: why is keeping Sabbath so important? The Sabbath commandment is the only commandment of the ten in the bible that reveals God's onwership to this earth. ""Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-11). Satan does not like the fact that God assume ownership of the earth. After Satan was driven away from heaven, he has always claim the earth as his. Why? because man fell for him. Christ death on the cross nulified that.

To the spiritual Isralite, who Christ purchased by His blood, ithe Sabbath is a sign between Him and them (Christians included) Ezekiel 20:20. There have been a controversy between good and evil. It all started in heaven where Satan had accused God that His leadership was unfair and the demand to keep the law was unjust. He also fought for the position of Christ. To prove his case, he deceived man and then showed God that he was right the while. It has been Satan's determined effort to ensure that no one sees the importance of Sabbath. The significance of the Sabbath commandment centers on the death of Jesus Christ. This command envission a restoration program- an atonement to restore man to God via Jesus Christ sacrifice. It teaches the lesson of faith-trusting God explicitly that He will provide for our needs. It is a day that speaks of freedom and miracle. Christ performed more good works on Sabbath days than any other days. Remember that Christ healing was either reliefing people from physical ailments or from spiritual bondage. Sabbath also set the occassion and describes a moment in our lives to receive from God a blessing that may not be easily obtained if our minds are clusters with the cares of this world. Like the tithe principle, God has given us six days to labor and do our works, but the Seventh day He wants to spend with us. Lastly, Sabbath is important because it was made for man and not man for Sabbth. In other words, it is sacret moment to enjoy with God. It is a moment of the week to enjoy with God's people together.

Jesus had to come to demonstrate to the world that Satan is a liar. According to John 3:16, we see God demonstrating His love through the death of His Son Jesus Christ on the Cross. In Daniel 7:25, the prophet reveals one of Satan's scheme to deceive the world. It states that Satan plans to change times and laws at a specific time in History. WE know that The Sabbath was changed by the pagan roman, an evil Satan ochestrated and history confirm this.

Today, Christianity claimed because Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday, it signifies the change. But there is no scriptural proof that Christ Himself stated that when I resurrect, go ahead and change the law.

If it is true that prophet Daniel unveil the scheme of satan some thousands of years past and even told us that the exact day and who will be doing this, should this be a common sense for the christian brethrens to avoid failing into the trap of Satan by worshipping on Sunday?

The amazing thing is that the book of revelation talked about the end of times in relation to Sabbath keeping. Revelation 14:17. "And the dragon was wroth with the woman (woman stands for God's church), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandment of God, and the testimony of Jesus." So you see, it is still important to keep God's commandment. The good news is that we obey it by the power of Jesus Christ. The Sabbath commandment is like every other laws contained in it. If we miss one of them we miss all. In essence, no one can keep the commandment of God except He is filled with the Holy Spirit of God. Without the Spirit, we will be fooling ourselves with Satan. God wants to give His spirit freely to those who come to HIM.

For more info, please visit these sites:

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_books_read.asp?ID=1167

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_changed.asp.

http://www.remnantofgod.org/sabhist.htm

Weimar

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I believe the Christians will say that Jesus has made everything unnecessary. Even the role of God, since they say that Judgement will be made by 12 apostles and of course, Jesus at the helm.

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I'm not sure, but I think this is what happened with the Ten Commandments. After existing as a society for a while, laws and rules of conduct emerge and a culture is formed. But the Jews were slaves for hundreds of years and probably adopted the rules of their masters for living. When they left Egypt, God cut to the chase and created a culture and a constitution for them. They would be lost if He hadn't done so. The Ten Commandments, the Sabbath, are meant for the Jews, and that, before Christ came and abolished the Law. Even now the Sabbath is part of the culture of the Jews. It's not a Christian custom. God is partial to Israel, and says so. Christ was a Jew, and that's the ultimate sign of favour to a race. A lot of practices described in the Bible are Jewish traditions and customs, not Yoruba or Ibo or Hausa. One accepts Christ, not the culture of the Jews. The Sabbath, the Feast of the Unleavened Bread. Yom Kippor,et.c. Christ says believe who I am and what I say, accept my death as payment for your sins and turn from them. The first five books of the old testament are a history of the Jews and their God-given laws. It's nothing to do with the New Testament laws by which we should live our lives. If it's in the New Testament, you are bound by it. If the Ten Commandments are in the New Testament, you are bound. I checked. Christ repeated all the commandments for us, except one: The Sabbath. Christianity is not for the Jews alone, hence the omission of their cultural practices from the Faith.Sorry I've been so long-winded. That's just an opinion.

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I have no enemies. Thanks. Oh good you got the point.

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@~Lady~:

lol. At least you and David, have a common enemy; me. I know you have to go on and on, before I begin to get the hint.

When I grow up, i want to be wise just like you.

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aww and here i am looking forward to the party.

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A word is enough for the wise. Unfortunately a word is not enough for you.

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@Davidylan: I am that lazy. So explain it, here and now. Alhamdulillah. I am grateful that I am a slave of Allah.

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Its been "explained" over 200 times now. Google one of the explanations, you cant be that lazy. Now leave us alone thou slave of Allah.

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@Davidylan:

After you explain Mark 12 verse 29 and Trinity in the light of the bible is plain and Jesus didd not lie. I will then keep quite and or move to Muslim Threads. I bet you can do it, except that your whole statement becomes like house of playing cards!

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Lol you know I actually missed this.

Um so if the sabbath was only meant for the Jews, doesn't that mean that the rest of the law was meant for the Jews?

You do know that the ultimate sacrifice was made in Jesus, so it's not like God abolished the law that a sacrifice was to be made, infact this time he provided us with the sacrifice.

Are you so sure that the JEWISH laws in leviticus, Numbers, Deutoronomy and all are not being obeyed? Because if they aren't, shouldn't we all be sleeping with our parents, brothers, sisters, or committing adultery, or stealing or coveting ur neighbours goods or wives or husbands.

Wait a minute though the law of the sabbath was not laid out in Leviticus or Deutoronomy or Numbers, it was laid out in Exodus, so I guess that too should be applied only to the Jews.

I really pity you if you really believe in what you wrote.

What are the commandments of God?

Because Christ is being offered up everyday for us.

ah wait you don't celebrate this? Christ celebrated this o.

You know I scrolled through the ten commandments I thought I was so blind all my life that I should have missed purim as a part of the ten commandments. But then I see purim is not a part of the ten commandments.

when did the creation of man become part of the ten commandments. my friend stick to the issue at and. you were trying to explain to us how we only have 9 commandments instead of 10.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I was really asking you not to insult God.

Now you're going to have to show me where I said that everyone is going to hell for not observing the sabbath.

Secondly well I already showed you how Paul handled the sabbath.

You must seriously lack basic english comprehension. The scribe did not ask how many commandments there were but[b] which of the commandments were the greatest[/b]. Do we really have to get into this again David?

Don't be so desperate as to turn this into another issue.

Now show how it is Christ abolished the sabbath law by saying that the greatest of all ten commandments were those two.

I guess by your reasoning, because Christ mentioned those two then the other ones were abolished too ehn.

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Good night.

Well I'm sorry, see I have this thing called life and I actuall enjoy living it. You see I go to school, I volunteer, I sing in the Choir so I went to choir practice tonight, and I go shopping I had to get new speakers for my comp and a new calculator for my cost accounting test on thursday, I lost my old one. and I like to chill with my friends which I am about to go do right now cause it's my friend's bday, I also like going to lunch and dinner and I like to talk to my friends and family on the phone, so I decided to go do those things today.

So forgive me for not sitting in front of the computer waiting for his highness david. You might want to find a life, you'll find it to be very refreshing.

Now good night. May the angels be at your side to watch and guard.

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Olabowale pls keep quiet and move to the islam only section. You're spamming the thread, thank you.

Lady i really am busy today . . . i would so have loved to take on your heresy filled hubris but very soon ma'am.

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@Davidylan:

I pay you no mind, sometimes. But I must confess that one thing or the other is the case if you compare Mark 12 Verse 29 to the none issue Trinity. If the Bible is plain, it means there is no need for interpretation. If the Bible is plain and if it does not exist on its pages, it means it does not exist. Come on mr. man.

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Read Matthew 22 from verse 35! Enough of half-baked christians diluting the true words of Christ with their own man-made doctrines.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

VALID! The question is WHAT IS THE LAW? The 10 commandments only?

Before you just post without thinking, the question here is WHO was Christ speaking to? The JEWS! Are gentiles also to observe the sabbath?

Before you, as usual, post without thinking . . . who were the apostles? JEWS!

who were they speaking to? JEWS!

the question remains . . . are Gentiles also obliged to keep the sabbath? If not then are we not in danger of only obeying 9 of 10 commandments?

Do YOU HYPOCRITE observe the sabbath?

Mark 2:23-28!

The Jews also levied a valid accusation against Him in John 5:18

As i always advocate, enough of pulling silly claims from your hat . . . give me clues from the bible!

Silly accusation to cloak your own spiritual ignorance. the jews had been practicing the sabbath for thousands of yrs before Christ came . . . all of a sudden they misunderstood it? The disciples walked through a field of corn and made themselves food on the sabbath . . .

The fact that the books were read IN THE SYNAGOGUES is enough clues to tell us this was strictly to the jews. Where the gentile believers also forced to observe the sabbath?

Do you truly understand this chapter at all? Its obvious you dont because you misinterprete the "rest" here to mean the "sabbath". Lets expose your ignorance -

Take a good look at verse 11, if, according to you, rest = sabbath . . . it would read as follows - 11 Therefore let us strive to enter into that sabbath, so that no one ma fall after the same example of disobedience.

How do you strive to enter into the sabbath? Is it not simply one day in the week?

Hebrews 3:7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Hebrews 4 is a continuation of Hebrews 3 so i have chosen to go back and look deeply at what you have missed in your own folly. Look closely at Heb 3: 7-11? Was it talking of a sabbath day in verse 11?

One other thing evident from your quotation . . . the term "sabbath rest" is absent from most other versions of the bible . . . rather it simply says "rest" . . . where did you get your heresy from?

What is plain and simple is your own ignorance, thank you.

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I noticed it took you so so many hours to post a rejoinder even though you still stayed around to respond to Olabowale's foolishness.

My disappointment with your first rejoinder remains the same - full of sarcasm, perhaps to hide your lack of knowledge while claiming to be asking for facts. The bible is plain, Christ does not lie.

You didnt fully digest verse 27 at all before jumping ignorantly into verse 28. Christ plainly said - Sabbath was made for man and NOT man for the sabbath . . . i asked WHAT DOES IT MEAN? You deliberately refused to answer it rather prefering to run rings around the truth.

I will ask a simple question - was the sabbath law made for the JEWS ONLY or for ALL THE GENTILES? If your argument is that the sabbath STILL APPLIES to GENTILES THEN my dear WHY are we not obeying all the other JEWISH laws in leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and all? Why have we refused to offer up our own burnt offerings and sacrifices? Where are our own feasts of the passover? why do we not also celebrate the feast of purim?

Its frustrating trying to debate those who read the bible with myopic lenses.

This is the argument of the drowning man clutching at straws. Let me digress a bit to address your glaring ignorance - when God created Adam, did He do so bearing in mind that Adam would disobey Him and end up outside the garden of Eden? Did God's word when He created change subject to the fall of Man?

Sarcasm shld not be a substitute for knowledge.

Go back and read Paul's words again, they seem to have skipped your comprehension. Paul was clear - LET NO MAN JUDGE YOU IN MEAT, DRINK OR IN OBSERVANCE OF THE SABBATH! He was refering to lost folks like you who think everyone is going to hell because they dont obey sabbath laws STRICTLY MEANT FOR THE JEWS!

When Christ was asked this same hypocritical question, guess what His answer was -

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I suppose the question YOU hypocrite shld put to Christ Himself is this - master are there now only 2 commandments rather than 10?

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@~Lady~

Woman, stop preaching and answer the questions! Unlike you I don't read minds. I ask you questions about what your religions is porported to be. All you do is beat around the bush.

I like you, but i am not shy to point out your apparent fault; your religion doctrine talks about three distinctive gods; separate but equal.

Separate but equal reminds me of school desegregations in the USA. The separate but equal school are never the same school by name, location of building, student roasters, etc. How then can you accept that concept in this case and deny it when it comes to Jesus, God and Holy ghost?

lol. I know somebody wrote the above in your Bible and claimed it was the statement of Jesus. I also know somebody wrote Mark 12 Verse 29 in your Bible and said it is from Jesus. If both are in your Bible and written by those you claimed are inspired by Christian God.

And if both ideas attached to Jesus are opposing each other. Now the question is this, could Jesus have been speaking with both sides of the mouth, or what? Did somebody wrote a false verse and the other wrote the truth? Which one is true? How then can you tell me which is the truth? Give me straight answer, please.

Can a full tenured Professor in the same department be subject to anothe fully tenured professor in the same department? Except that one is the Chairman and he/she swail the 100% authority over other Professors in the department?

But there is only one Chairman. You can't have more than 1 fully empowered chairman, with each having 100% authority. Is that possible? I dont wanna use the dean of each school, versus the lecturers of the same school, as my example.

That will be too obvious, but very appropriate. Then tell me how a god is subjected to another God? Is the subjected god a real god, or just its just for play, a statement that carries no weight?

And you never stop begging my question on Mark 12 Verse 29. Since i read English well, contrary to your baseless opinion, I wonder what Oh Israel, your God and my God is but One Lord, mean?

This does not need any interpretation, for a mind that can grsp direct and plain written words in English. I am sure you are reading the mind of the speaker, right now. soon you will give it your own twist! Now twist it and provide me with an answer, straight away. I need that answer, now.

Now i want you to tell everyone, here and now, one single lie i have told you about Christianity and or Islam. Out of fear; fearing what or who? I told you that or you read my mind or you are interpreting me, just the same way you interprete the Bible verse?

Thats not God. I never gave you any impression that I am fearful of any human. Please don't read any meaning where there is none. If I do not live out of fear, then it must be Love, the other quality that you mentioned.

You or your Bible is lying. Considering that you even pray to Mary, your claim that you believe in 1 God is laughable. No one prays to what they don't worship. Thats why Muslims don't pray to Muhammad. Even when he was alive, no one prayed to him.

Stop it, ~Lady~. I don't have to be educated before i know the different between 1 God, and three different gods of the christians. You need to apply your accounting education/ okay spread sheet to this: Receivable and expenditures do not enter in the same column! Am sure you know that 3 is not the same as 1.

If i didn't like you i will simply say bologna. But I am looking down my shows to see how much stain your funkied statement left on my shoes. Am gonna wash it afterward and send you the Bill.

I will deduct it from the money you wagered the fisrt time you wagered. And a taker of fishline is born every minutes. And we believe that the Bible is not authored by a confused mind(s)? Abeg woman, let me hear words.

Am seperate from my word, and I am no more than a creation of Almighty God! Often, you see lawyers recording memos for their secretaries. The lawyers, by this word recorded never get diministed and not the same as the word.

They never were joined at the hip. hey go home and the recording is left in the office for the secretary to deal with the following day.

I remember asking you just to open your eyes, that when this word died as you claimed, did the God who spoke the word also died? You have not been able to answer with some clarity. Can you just do it now, since you feel this bad about my action.

So will hindu, Buhhdist, Judaism, etc and yes, indeed Islam, too. Now tell me have you heard of a foolish american lawman who said that they should bomb Makka, since the "hijackers," were mostly Saudi citizens?

The muslims were so eager, gearing the lawman on to push the idea. You know why the muslims were gearing him on? We all want to have the case of the disaster of the people of the Elephant occur in our own time. The Living Qur'an is ever alive.

You should read the chapter titled "The Elephant." To issue about church does not impress me, since Jesus did not even as a prophet spoke about any and was not familiar with the concept of it. Remembered that he prayed in Temple and not Church?

You are very comfortable in being deceived. But I will tell you the truth. Perchance, your heart may open up to truth.

You are getting to a bridge to nowhere. Unlike all ancient languages, a word can mean many things depending on its usage. Yet a thing can have many words to describe it. You are not an Arab. Now are you a linguist of that language?

At best you get your incomplete knowledge of Islam from www or your church. When you settle your mind down from this upset condition you have expressed, I will give you some islamic education. I can tell you the veres where you will find the command, Be, which gives us the easy in which the coming to being of Jesus is to God, the Almighty Al Qaliq.

If you are defining human being, yes. But when you are defining God the Almighty Who creates all, then the definition is wrong. Go back again and see that God said that He breath His spirit into Adam. Now tell me how best you can explain how the spirit is breath into Adam? Tell me what breath the spirit therefore means?

If it is in the same light as in the way you went aboard with Jesus, then the spirit of God is also Adam! Or you can say Adam is the first ever spirit of God among mankind! Did that make you say that Adam is god? Think about it and see how stubbornly warped you idea is when it comes to Jesus, then.

Was God existing when Jesus experienced the aclaimed death, if he was really the spirit, which is the life of the being, God? Think about it. Someday, I will be collecting all the wagers you made. Now you owe me tons of bets. Dollar, Dollar!

You catholic denomination Christian is talking about peace? I think you conveniently forget about all the french speaking african nations under Catholic europe oppressive regimes.

Congo and co. And the word infidel occurs in the pages of the Bible. If i show you, what will you give me? I need to start collecting dividends from you, right about now. But I will wait until you finish that major degree. By then, you would have owe me plenty. And it is Qur'an, and it is you who is spreading falsehood about the places.

Am sure you miss me terribly.

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The ten commandments are very necessary and are still in effect and never nullified not even by Christ.

Christ himself is the law, he won't nullify himself.

Did Jesus have anything to say about the state of the sabbath after his death?

yes he did. he spoke of an even that would take place after his death

matthew 24:20

pray that your flight not be in winter or on the sabbath.

Obviously Jesus expected the sabbath to be still in place and honoured at that time. That would be strange if his apostles were to abandon it shortly after his death.

Did the apostles keep the sabbath after Jesus' death?

you bet they did.

Acts 13:14

but they passed on from Perga and came to Antioch of Pisid'ia. And on the sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down.

Acts 13:44

The next sabbath almost the whole city gathered together to hear the word of God.

Acts 16:13

and on the sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer; and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together

Acts 18:4

And he argued in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded Jews and Greeks.

Acts 17:2

Paul, as was his custom, went in to them, and for three Sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Christ never broke the sabbath, he wouldn't be the Son of God if he were to go against the law.

But some self professed pastors will claim that.

The Jews misunderstood the law of the sabbath, Jesus even went further to inform them that they perform circumcision on the sabbath so how can it be wrong that he makes a man whole on the sabbath. John 7:21-23

The apostles continued with the law, with the reading of the word on the sabbath

Acts 15:21

For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.

Now some people want to misinterpret Paul as saying that the sabbath is nullified. But he didn't.

Hebrews 4:1

1 Therefore, let us be on our guard while the promise of entering into his rest remains, that none of you sem to have failed.

2 For in fact we have received the god news just as he they did. But the word that they heard did not benefit them, for they were not united in faith with those who listened.

3 For we who have believed enter into that rest, just as he has said: "As I swore in my wrath, they shall not enter into my rest" and yet his works were accomplished at the foundation of the world.

4 For he has spoke about the seventh day in this manner, "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works";

5 and again, in the previously mentioned place, "They shall not enter into my rest."

6Therefore, since it remins that some will enter into it, and those who formerly eceived he good news did not enter because of disobedience,

7 he once more set a day, "today," when long afterwards he spoke through David, as he already quoted: "oh that today you would hear his voice: harden not your hearts."

8 Now if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoke anfterwards of another day,

9 Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God.

10 Ans whoever enters into God's est, rests from his own works as God did from his.

11 Therefore let us strive to enter into that rest, so that no one ma fall after the same example of disobedience.

Plain and simple the sabbath still stands, even in the new covenant.

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maybe you missed the part about him being Lord of the sabbath.

So I guess you should also be disobedient to the law

You know what david you are right. The sabath was nullified. Infact we don't have ten commandments, we only have nine.

Infact God's word changes abi? not so david? God is subject to time right david and dats why his word changes eh?

you know what i am the "another 'christian' who is in need of guidance" so please enlighten me yo holiness, the one not in need of guidance.

but please in you quest don't insult God and limit him by claiming that he nullifies his word and in so doing claiming that he lies.

Oya go ahead.

ahhh your know it allness, please enlighten me. I can't wait for you to do so. I am in need of guidance, guide me, pls.

nah he wasn't, he was speaking the truth, but you however twist it.

so pls your know it allness, enlighten me the lost one.

and while your at it. Pray tell what are the commandments of God? How many of them are there?

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If there is no need for it , God wouldn't have created it . Abi you you dey try question God's authority ?

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The question you asked was assuming a false belief of yours. I had to correct you on your false belief. Like I have always said, ask questions about Christianity and not what your beliefs of Christianity are.

You know very well that Christ spoke of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. You know very well that he called himself the Son. You have asked us to show you this in the Bible and we have done so. You have resorted to taking a verse out of context and you repeatedly quote it to prove your point, which it does not prove but you are so blind and are extrememly desperate to have us see things your way.

I have repeatedly told you that the Son, Christ is subject to the Father. You keep aking us why Christ said what he said in mark 12 vs. 29 and it disappoints me every time, because it only shows me that basic english you do not comprehend. Christ was not in anyway point that he is not God, and when I questioned you on it, you deliberately skipped my question and have led me to believe you are very deceitful. Every time I encounter in a discussion with you about Christianiy or Islam, you lie to me and it's led me to have less respect for you. As of this time the only reason why I respect you is because of your age and not because of your intellect, and also because you choose to live out of fear and not out of love.

Christians believe in One God. If that is not clear enough for you then try your best to get your money back on your education.

You will ask about how it is that Christ is God and that the Spirit is God.

I tell you that Christ is the Word of God made flesh and that the Spirit is the Spirit of God himself.

You won't comprehend this and then I ask you if you think it is impossible, then explain to me how it is that God is separated from his Word and his Spirit.

You will completely skip that part because you know that you cannot explain it and then you will move on to something else to discredit Christianity, and I will tell you that you can keep trying but God always protects his Church, it is best for you to quit because you won't win. The Church will stand to the end.

You will also bring in your own belief that Jesus was just a word "Be" that God said to Mary just as he said to Adam and it is only a command, and I will inform you that this only supports the belief in Christianity that Jesus is the New Adam, the sinless Adam. You won't be able to dismiss that because it is also the belief in Islam that Jesus is sinless and that he was created as Adam was.

I will also inform you that the word for command in rabic is amr, but the word used to describe Jesus as the word is Kelima and it cetainly does not mean command, I'm sure you understand where I am getting to.

You will also say that Jesus is nothing but a command and a spirit proceeding from God. Then I will ask you to explain how it is that God's Spirit can be anything or anyone other than God Himself. I will remind you that a spirit is the life of the being. How can a being exist without it's life or separate from his life.

This is why Christianity is always seen as the religion of peace and Islam is not. Peace in Islam does not reach to those who are ubelievers but only to the believers. So who is spreading falsehood here? Oh yeah there are verses in the koran that clearly tell that war should be waged againt all infidels.

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@Davidylan: You are so funny. I have to laugh on that one. Unfortunately, i am not that bright in the matters of religion. Don't worry. I am trying to learn, too. Pele. But truth stands out from falsehoods. Everytime there is light, darkness in all its forms have no leg to stand on.

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