Are there any former muslims in here? or non practising ones?
PLEASE NOTE I AM REPEATING THE POSTING OF THIS MESSAGE IN MOST THREADS IN OTHER TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE PEOPLE MENTIONED GET THE MESSAGE I AM TRYING TO PASS ACROSS, I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVINIENCES IT MIGHT CAUSE OTHER THREAD USERS,
Pilgrim.1, Davidylan, How are you, sorry you didn't I didn't post , statements and comments at all, for a while.
They were due to the following reasons:
1. I didn't have anything to say
2. I realise it was useless trying to convince them (@bab787, @olabowale and co) about something , when Satan has already blinded them to the truth. They themselves have decided to look for loopholes (where there is none) within the bible and lies with which to continue living a lie, and choose not to believe
3. I realised that their (@babs787, et al) would not come by arguing with them , instead it would come via the HolySpirit, ministering to them.
Let us remember that is , He (God) is the one who saved us, , so He is the One who would save them, Our own job as true Christians is just to , "SOW THE SEED OF THE GOOD NEWS OF CHRIST".
Whether or not " They choose to be infertile ground or grounds filled with thorns " is not really our perogative.
4. Finally I have noticed that "they are living for the now , while we are living for the now and then", so just like Jesus instructed the disciples there comes a time when we are supposed to dust our feet and leave
By the way pilgrim.1 and Davidylan, please find attached, some video links that have helped me to understand certain lies , deceit and indoctrination of "Evolution", I hope it helps you to see the truth as it has helped me to see the truth.
Finally false doctrine contributes to doubts in ones life and faith in God : below is a link to something on false doctrine which can and might
have led many Christians astray:
To you @babs787, @olabowale , and co, the wise and intelligent thing to do (instead of being dogmatic about issues) is to try and find out why those Christians that were formerly "either so called Moderate Muslims" and "Fanatical Muslims" decided to turn away from their ways and decide to become Christians. At least the truth is that some of them were probably as confrontation and unyielding in their statements as you "seem" to be. It would help you to at least prove for yourself by asking them "WHY" they left islam for Christ.
Unless you take joy in trying to "windup everybody" just for the sake of it, it would help you to conduct truthful research and analysis into why former terrorist, moderate muslims, fanatical muslims, decided to risk everything (life, job and family) all for the purpose of becoming a TRUE CHRISTIAN.
Pilgrim.1 and Davidylan stay blessed and in the hope of salvation through CHRIST
Nobody asked you whether Aisha wrote down the Hadith by herself. Whoever wrote it certainly knew that Aisha could not have deliberately been misleading them. Even the qur'an was written by the pen and ink of men. Period.
The question is a straightforward, no-nonsense one:
WAS Aisha lying in testifying in her own words (as recorded in the hadiths) that she was only a girl when Muhammad married and took her to bed?
@Nwando: Welcome back.
You see, I know Muhammad and I also know Aisha. My dear Nwando, you have no knowledge of either. This is why that I gave you a few short quizzes, which I will put up for you now to quickly answer: When was Aisha born, before her father, Abu Bakr becoming a Muslim or after? How old was she when her father became a Muslim? How far along in the life of Islam, from the first revelations, which were just 5 verses from Surah Alaq (Note that these verses did not contain 'Qul,' say which was the word that is making you crazy), that Abu Bakr became Muslim? Who was the first grown male to become Muslim? Who was to become Muslim outside the bloodline and household of Muhammad? Who was the Kalifah of Islam when Aisha passed away? What was her age? How long did she live after the death of the prophet? When did she marry Muhammad, relative to the year of Hijra?
Now, just because somebody said said that Aisha said something and you Nwando tag it as her own word, does not mean that she said it and it is her own word. She is not available to deny or confirm it. The same condition with your claiming that Jesus, is one part, god, one part, son of god, one part prophet and 100% son of man! Let me ask you again, was he one part son of man,too? Then here is the one, two punch combination, how do you add all of these to be one whole Enchilada? Chei, I don't want your husband know that I take you through this rollercoaster! I feel guilty already, but I got to do it to you, like that!
Answer the questions.
I understand your persuasion, and can well sympathize with it.
The huge problem here is well encapsulated in my previous questions; and let me put it this way:
Should we rubbish Aisha's testimony on the basis of
the inconsistencies of those who contradict her with
no coherence in their arguments?
The hadiths known as "SAHIH" (sound, authentic, undisputable) clearly show that:
~ Aisha was a LITTLE GIRL
~ not quite attained the age of puberty
~ a "LADY" could NOT have been playing with dolls
All these are insurmountable and incontrovertible evidence that the argument to make her a "lady" mature enough for marriage is a farce. Besides those already cited, there are tons of evidence in the Hadiths that confirm that Aisha was a child-bride, rather than mature enough to fit the age-bracket cut out for her as a "lady".
@mdsocks: Salaamualaykum. Jazakallahu Khair. I am going to begin my Quiyam now. But we in Islam know the truth, and that was why I was giving Nwando all kind of cronological developments, to be able to find out truly about Aisha. But, true to her form, she went away or hiding probably when she found out the truth, she can't bear to tell it. That make her testimony worth even less. I do not think greatly of her statements towards Islam anyhow.
If anyone knew the relationship between Abu Bakr and Muhammad, before Islam, it would be surprising to know that Abu Bakr, was the first person, outside of Muhammad's household to accept Islam. This was the fisrt year of Islam and Aisha was Already 4 or 5 years old by the time of the first revelation. They spend 13 years in Makka on top of her 4 or 5 years. Then they spend 2 years before she and the prophet(as) consumated the marriage. She was atleast 19 or close to 21 at this time! We are talking about Arabia of over 1400 years back. The first thing was that no one in either Makka or Madina or inbetween or those who heard amongst the people; Jews and Christians includedalong with the to the core idol worshippers, none use this early spring and late fall relationship as a means to accuse him. Here you have freaks from Nigeria, who probably lost their virginities in the backroom somewhere, come to show us what morality. Considering that they do not even know how to adore their Creator and they set up an intermediary between themselves or worship whatever they set up along with Him!
I am tired of their lies and its better to let them wallow in Ignorance. God will excite them as He excited Pharaoh, and they will enter the fire of hell in lock steps with him. That is if they do not turn back and repent and enter Islam. I am very confidence without any doubt no One has the right to be worshipped, but the Almighty alone. And He is not three, but in Oneness. And Muhammad is His last Prophet and Messenger.
Pilgrim, finally i got the link
Some people believe that Ayesha (May Allah be pleased with her) was nine years old at the time of her marriage with Mohammad (peace be upon him) was consummated.
The age of Ayesha (ra) has been grossly mis-reported in the hadith. Not only that, I think -that the narratives reporting this event are not only highly unreliable but also that on the basis of other historical data, the event reported, is quite an unlikely happening. Let us look at the issue from an objective standpoint. My reservations in accepting the narratives, on the basis of which, Ayeshas age at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is held to be nine years are:
-----Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.
-----It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years.
------Tehzibu'l-tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq. (vol 11, pg 48 - 51)
----Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly. (vol 4, pg 301 - 302)
----According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.
-----According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.
-----According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
----Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah -- the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH -- the time she most likely got married.
------According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not have been born during the first year of Islam.
-----Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am -- with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged -- and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam, and subsequently his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.
----According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
----According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.
These are some of the major points that go against accepting the commonly known narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage.
Neither was it an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as nine or ten years, nor did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Ayesha (ra) at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage, because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated.
Please stop mentioning your husband already. If your husband is really confused, your continous mention of it almost makes him seem a silly man. If you are the one who is confused then I suggest you please stop acting and go see a person who ACTUALLY KNOWS of GOd to get some words of wisdom imparted on you. You make your husband seem a very silly person if you come in here to tell us he is a catholic but he is confused meaning he does not even know God enough to know that first thing to do is ask God for answers to his many questions. You on the other hand should try do the same for you and your man.
@Davidylan: Oh, and the mother of Protestants are the catholic. Afterall you copycatted their Bible? Remember, except that you changed up, by cancelling altogether 6 or 7 Books from it! And about the wives of Muhammad (as) being my mother, it is a far cry from the Catholic worshipping your god Jesus' mother, Virgin Mary! We in Islam do not worship Muhammad and definitely, we do not worship none of his wives; otherwise, we would not be having 1 God, but many. You know better davidylan. You are trying a smear campaign, because you worship Jesus and then the God of Jesus and then the Holy Spirit that came to Jesus. You have three gods by that alone. Then your Catholic brethren worships mother of Jesus. You guys still call her Virgin after you said that she produced the brothers of Jesus with Joseph the capenter. Tell me how can she remained a Virgin, by any definition after producing some men, specifically after having conjugal relationship with Joseph? Tell me, Dave!
Islam stand separate and apart from all of ya religions; Mother catholic, baby Protestant and Daddy Judaism! Then you have cousins Hindu, etc. David am waiting for your wimpy response. You know that you are losing out in this case.
we see once again how close catholicism and islam is. Both are based on the foundations of idolatry.
Even sango worshippers know that they can remarry if they lose their wives. People were remarrying long before mohammed's grandfather was born.
Abraham remarried Keturah after the death of Sarah so just what did mohammad show you?
Of course you are free to marry as many as you are given the sexual strength for. Bunch of sexual perverts.
Alhaji put on your thinking cap. Whether 5000yrs ago or in 50yrs time no 6yr old girl is physically and mentally capable of marriage!
Indeed there is no set age to reach puberty but SURELY no one reaches puberty at 6.
Ditto for all muslims. Period! Sura 19:71.
You hypocrites are forever waiting especially when there are questions begging for answers from you.
Alhamdulullah. Whatever the age of Seyida Aisha was when she became our mother, we are grateful for it. Through her, many hadith came to light. In this I have found great joy. Through Muhammad I have been able to know that I can remarry. To an older woman, a widow, a younger woman,etc and i do not have to marry just one, if I have all the acutremens to handle the situations.
Hadith when translated from its original Arabic form, we see that it has a mistranslations, sometimes. However, the soundness of any hadith depends on how many narrations and the people in the chain of each narrations. Finally there is no set of years that every human is to reach puberty. I remember those situations in the 60s and the early 70s, when supposedly young women get pregnant. We reckon with the birth age only, not considering the mental age or the fact that there may be a phenomenon in the equation of each of the person.
I asked Nwando to do a very simple task, she had since disappeared. Leaving immatured minds to go about in a blind rage. As if that will profit a disbeliever. All disbelievers will enter Hellfire, without any exception. Period!
I will be waiting for you Mrs. Nwando, to attempt to explain the conditions of Aisha. We know an authentic hadith, when we read it and put everything in their perspectives. We know the personality of Prophet Muhammad. This is why we have been asking the like of Nwando to step to the plate of truth. There could have been anybody in the chain of narrators who is considered to be a hypocrite or just plainly wrong in the statement made. But regardless, we are greatly educated by her youth relatively to the prophet maturity.
And Nwando, you can even task yourself to answer the issue of Aisha that put in front of you! Yet you are so engrossed with her condition with the Prophet of Allah. You would have found out the truth, if you simply yuk it up and try to be honest within yourself. Aisha bint Abi Bakr Siddiq, was born before Muhammad received revelation. She was either 4 or 5 years old. The was the last child of her father. Calculate from there. Do the math, Nwando, and stop all your lies. I am sick and tired of your sick and tired lies, about my leaders in faith. The truth will be staring you wholesomely without any doubt.
@Nwando: To tell you that you lie, when you speak about Islam. That you have no gut to at least speak the truth, if your soul cries for it. That your hatred of Islam, whatever the causation of it, which is more that the 911 event, since you are not really a true yank, has warped your natural sense of fairness when it comes to Islam. Want more, woman? You have a giant size problem. Start with your ADHD condition, first. lol.
For your question, I will wait so I can confirm that I have the First Edition RSV BIble online so that we can both look and see what your claim is and how it deals with reality. FOr the second part of your post about verses in different versions of the bible that to me reference the same, I will not even debate that with you cause that is not what I intend to spend my time on. I looked up the site of the organization that published the in 1952 and then republished the second edition in 1970 something and no where does it list on the site that anything was removed. I did however find a link that has the whole RSV bible online and as soon as I confirm which version it is. I will personally go out to walmart to get the other so you can see if those verses exist or not. In the meantime, please read through this site's page http://www.ncccusa.org/newbtu/aboutrsv.html . The link happens to be straight to the organization that holds the copyright to the RSV and there it is explained to you what the difference between the versions and editions are and where you can find additional information in the new texts ( footnotes and more) on what was modified. Read through it and you will learn a lot. @Babs.
@Nwando: Since you love the name Aisha so much, I bet that will be your name so that you can be spared of Hellfire as a destiny! Now relax: But tell me, was Aisha born preIslam of her father or her father had entered Islam before she was born? If she was born before her father entered Islam, how old was she? Do you really know who her father was? What was her father's relationship with Muhammad before Muhammad became a Prophet? What is the age difference between Aisha and Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad (as)?
I wanna nail you to the cross by your accurate answers! If you are in accurate, I will still have a crocked cross to nail you on, courtesy of your dubious websites. I know you are not making any researches, of the materials you enter you enter when it comes to Islam. You just enter materials from any website, as long as it is against Islam. Your hatred is making you act so terrible. You are very blind with rage and you have developed ADHD, because of it! This is my diagnosis of you. Giving the but am a Doctor excuse will not work here. In your Bible we see that it states Doctor heals thy self! You cannot heal yourself. You are not relaxed when you are seeking informations. Learn to relax and start from the get go, from true intention to find the truth, whereever it may lead you. You should seek it from proper Islamic webs. Kore so wun! lol.
Firstly, can you please check mark 16 v 19, luke 24 v 15 and john 8 v 1-10 from RSV of 1952 and tell if those verses exist?
Secondly, let us look at luke 22 v 70
KJV : Then they said 'are you the son of God/ He said unto them,. 'you said that I am'
NIV: They all asked, 'are you the son of God, e said, 'YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING I AM.
LBV: They all shouted, 'then you claim you are the son of God? and he said 'yes I am'
Thirdly, Can you help me check Mark 16 v 9 - 20 from RSV of 1952 edition? You will never find it there but inseretd in recent editions.
There are two different and contradictory copies of Today's English Version . One contains some addtional books which makes it 81 while the other copy does not contain these additional books, can you tell me the reason behind these?
Let me stop here and wait for your response
No Where in my posts have I ever said I do not understand Yoruba nor am I not a Yoruba so again, please try to stay off my personal information and focus on answering the question.
1) I have made it clear over and over now that I am not selling you my religion or anything. I simply would like for you to once support the claim you made about reading different things in the Bible ( again whichever bible) pre 1970 and post 1970. Am I asking you for too much here?? why do you find this hard to do??
2) Once again you go on and on about ibos and what they believe according to you. Look, if you have issues with ibos that is fine by me but keep it to the cultures thread and focus on the debate at hand.
3) I did not in anyway ask you of the quran as I already explained I know enough of it to know it is not for me. You however made a claim and I asked you to read and you came back with another claim that you have and you have evidence. I would like to see this so called evidence you have .simple!!!
@Davidylan: Dafidi! I wo omo yi o ni nkon se. If its Spring break time now, I probably will ask you to go chill out somewhere. Away from, the Unclothedness, anyhow, while you are there. It just does not befit a Bible thumper. Yet it is the Unclothedness that pack them in in some Churches.
Davidylan, you answered nothing. All you do is bellow/roar like the TIGRE you are. Nothing behind it. Are you Elijah, the Messiah or the Prophet? They asked John the Baptist and then they asked Jesus. Please put their answers, side by side for me. And the rest of the Muslims on Nairaland. We wanna compare. Who would be incorrect, any one of the two noble prophets or the writer of that piece in the Bible?
@Kokojunkie: Ol boy, go sedon. Am chatting with my boy David. We go a long way. Its cold in Ohio and your drive way is probably a mile high. Go do some snow blowing. I answer your Longman83 masterpiece of a question and since then you can sleep. Why don't you compare the Bible of the Mother catholic with Baby Protestant, and tell us the Muslims, if the are the same by Books alone, before we go into Chapters, Verses and words. You are talking about dictionary, so define Comforter for us and while you are at it define corrector as well. Giving full meaning of them, I will give you a full blown Characteristic of Muhammad so that you will know that Muhammad is the Comforter. If you dispute right now, i will ask you to tell us, the Muslims, if the Comforter ever surfaced in the Christian community since Jesus is claimed to have said it in the Bible?
I will also give you a clear Picture of the Qur'an being the Corrector of what you have in your hand. Afterall, you said the Tourat is not the Bible, yet you have it in the Bible? Whats going on explain if you can, please?
Alhamdulillah, somebody is answering your issues, already. Take him on, Kokojunkie.
Is this not a case of frying pan calling kettle black?? LMAO!!!!, I am still waiting for you to post the changed verses @Olabowale, I can believe you of all people would actually have the audacity to accuse anyone else of doing that when that happens to be your MO, LMAO!!!! I am waiting for you to show me those verses by the way. Show me even one that has changed and I already posted the dictionary sites we can use to help verify your claim. Before you start bull crapping me about how those sites are not legit, they happen to be linked to Webster, American Dictionary and even Oxford dictionary , again, I am waiting,
stuff and nonsense! We ask questions . . . rather than answer them you come up with your evasive laundry list of "questions" and start playing "answer me first". That kind of behaviour is reserved for deceitful weasels!
Were are the "answers" you claimed to have supplied? Can you please itemise them and stop playing smart by half?
As for fire going out . . . no it hasnt, i just no longer have the time wallowing in the mud with children of belial whose end is destruction.
@davidylan, you are really a classic Christian. Duckin, weavin, boppin and doing a rope-a-drugs . You refuse to answer any of my questions, yet you are quick to ask a barrage of question! when are you going to quit. I wear my pants to by a tad below my belly button. And with a belt, always. Its you who is searching for a fallout shelter, since you can even answer jack. You don't even try. You are married now, because the energy is gone out of you. I already answer your questions with my entry to longman83 or Kokojunkie. You should read it. I know you are not ready for any reality check, yet. Answer my questions and see my classic coming straight at you.
@Wordsmith: You are right. How about you taking a crack at my question: If Jesus is met by the Christians in the cloud, will Jesus touch back on the earth, or you all remain in the cloud or just go to Christian without any substantial delays? I will give you all night to prepare yourself for my entries. i am going to slam you harder than davidylan.
You really dont want to know anything as you yourself have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of how your own alleged Jesus/Issa would return to earth.
You claim that muslims are expecting Jesus as a "grown man" . . . before you ask us HOW the biblical Jesus Christ will return how about you tell us HOW your quranic Issa will appear . . .
will he jump down from heaven as a grown man?
How will muslims recognise him?
To your miserable attempt to answer my question as regards why we have an anti-christ and no anti-mohammed; once again you reveal the islamic penchant for dishonesty and al taqqiya! When you are caught with ur pants down you start crying "no one knows".
If indeed no one knows why there is an anti-christ then why does the very phrase exist in the first place? Why is that only Allah knows most of what passes as islam today?
@Davidylan: Baba agba, 1000 to the power 1000 gbosa for you. The Muslims are expecting Jesus as he had left the earth; a grown man. Not as a baby. The second question, it is only known by the Sender of Jesus son Mary, his Lord Allah the Almighty. You, me, Jesus, no one knows. Did you see my entry about Antichrist? My question to you are you going to try to answer it? Don't forget that you are a Tiger and you ain't backing down for no body, no how.
Again will Jesus be touching down on the ground since the Christians will meet him in the clouds. I guess you will just go home to Christian heaven. I wanna know this and again i have a classic for you.
@Davidylan: I wo omo yi, o ni pa mi. Jeje mi ni mo nlo o! I give you my Lagos excuse. Let me ask you this if Allah says in the Qur'an that every creation shall taste death. Then in another, states that Jesus was not killed and was not crucified. Yet in another, He says that He raised Jesus up. Still, in another He says Jesus is going to come back. And yet in another, He says that every face will perish (die), except His own Face. All these verses are to be fulfilled before the Judgement day. Then how do you think that Jesus will not die, as per all of the above from the Qur'an, when he returns? It is you who have this convoluted crazy idea (thinking), that you are going to meet him in the cloud and grow wings (my idea), and go with him to whereever. I guess the Christian heaven. lol. I always enjoy your style, Davidylan. So do not mind me. Pilgrim said am running low on antidepressant, anyhow. Yet am surrounded by many Doctors in my life. She sees my condition all the way from ilu oyinbo! Orishi rishi. Am using Mrpataki's favorite expression.
Now David, Jesus is coming down from the cloud, according to the Christians, you fly up or spring up to meet him in the cloud. He will be coming down to the ground and you will come with him? Or he will not come down to the ground, because you people, are already in the mid air, like airplanes or gliders, because you have taking up like space shuttle/rocket anyhow? When you give me an answer, I have a classic for ages as my response to you. If this will not turn you off from Christianity, I will go into BIG DADDY mode on you. But let me give you an inside track to my two part question, depending on if he touches the ground or not since you have rush precipitately to join him before he reaches the ground. Its about Antichrist and his duties. I will look at it from the Biblical points of view and then give you the KO punch! My famous jib jab!
Ten gbosa for you. No. thats too small. 10 raised to power 10 is more like it. Enjoy.
Again, stop deviating from the topic. I don't give a darn what ibos want to believe. If they want to be catholics, are you God to stop them?? if they choose to be protestants?? what has it to do with this discussion?? Seriously, you still come back with the same babblings instead of going straight to the point with me. Notice how I stick to what I am talking about in here?? Why is that hard for you to do ?? What verses did babs post to support your claim of pre and post 70's change?? Are you senile or what ?? You are beginning to irritate the heck out of me with this chicken game you keep playing. What the heck is wrong with you?? Can't you ever stay focused and actually deal with claims you make without trying to shoot off in another direction??sheeeeesh!!!
@Kokojunkie: My brother relax. InshaAllah, I will not be too busy to respond to you. But one thing is this, are the catholic not Christians? Is the protestant sects of Christianity not an offshoot from Catholicism? Is not the catholic Bible the mother of the protestant Bible? If you use the analogy of the Chicken and the egg, Catholic sect of Christianity has to be the Chicken that laid the first set of Christian protestant sects. It is the Chicken that incubated it and allows it to hatch to chicks. Yet, it is this chick that is trying to be the Hawk that is trying to eat its benefactor, mother hen for lunch! Pilgrim.1, my Princess knows what am talking about. she has a field day bashing them on some threads. I have seen her handwork and i have asked her to show her claimed similarity of Catholic to Islam, or vis versa. Am still waiting and she aint done it yet. This is my ebonics and am sticking to it. lol.
You have your answer from the two Bibles. I will come back for you, tonight. But Babs727 already answered your Bible misery about Verses missing or relegated to common footnotes in others. But you refuse to read and you are talking about snow in Ohio. You will be blowing all night! Your neighbors will be taking your pictures and sending them to National geographic to illustrate the conditions of indigenous Africans in America! Do not do it. Its best that you change religion! Islam is waiting for you. We need to have everybody in igbo to be in it. You got to be in it to be a winner with God.
Are the Igbo catholic not Christians? It will be interesting to hear your view on this one. I will have something to talk to Dr. Valentine Okeke about.
Dictionary sites for you to book mark while we take this roller coaster ride you want to take us on. No need to google for verses, show me actual verses you have read yourself that have changed. If you can not read and explain what you read, do realize I would rather go melt snow outside with a blow drier than spend my time on a drive-by muslim with Bible language issues??
Start with one , still waiting!!
1. Your long story is meaningless unless you can expressly show us in the quran or hadith where Allah ever said any of the above. Dont attempt to make up ur own tales.
2. Look at the two phrases in bold. . . If Jesus Christ NEVER DIED but ascended into heaven, why did Allah allow mohammed to see the grave?
3. Do you know which tribe or nation your Issa is coming to rule over? What is the sign of his coming?
@Davidylan: Instead of just asking the Muslims to answer questions, while you deflects every questions raised by the Muslims, please answer this for me: I love you regardless of your sure failure to do a good job of it. But I want you to try, as a Tiger, you got Guts, unlike the Yellow belly Jelly belly folks;
Deut. 18 verse 18; Please give me the answers of the two individual personalities: John the Baptist first and Jesus son of Mary second. Compare their answers to each other on the three persons/Prophets in the question: Elijah, Messiah and 'that Prophet?' This is my fisrt and I have already answered your man's question. Longman83, that is.
@Kokojunkie: I read Bible pre 1970. Post 1970, the freshmen were served different Bibles! I am not going to compare experiences here! However, you sound like an Igbo man, and if am wrong, since I do not know what I do not know, I apologise. But by and large, the Igbos are mainly Catholics. Whats your explanation to the difference of their catholic Bible versus your Bible if you are not a Catholic? Your answer will be interesting to know. Let me talk about another subject: the Anti-Christ versus why not Anti-Muhammad?
So I supplicated to my Lord and search the Qur'an and the tafsir of many ayah. I realised that in the Qur'an Musa and Muhammad individual status were very clear, and never were in dispute by their people. In the case of Isa, his mother had to be defended and honored, as appropriate against the lies of her people. Isa also had to be defended against the refusal of the Jews and then the over compensation of the Christians who set him up as a partner or lord beside his Creator.
We also see in the Qur'an that Moses defeated Pharaoh, who was a mighty civilization and Muhammad defeated the Idolators of Makka. These two prophets of God were believers while they defeated by God's permission the disbelieving powers of their time. They also were accepted as rulers over their peoples.
In the case of Jesus, he was never a success as a ruler over his people. Infact, they rejected him. He did not defeat any one. infact the Christians report in their Bible that the Jews, his people killed him, with help of the Roman ruling people.
Now that Jesus had failed in the two tests, Allah will use him amongs the signs of the end of time. He will be returned as stated in the Qur'an. He will practice Islam as already established by Muhammad. He will not lead it, but a member of it. He will be a just ruler and he does not have to be the Imam, while he is a just ruler. In this state the Anti-Christ, who will be the sign of disbelief of his time, will be raised up to challenge him! Jesus will defeat him and have his victory. He will be accepted by the believing people any way, but he will kill the pigs, break the cross and judge according to Sharia of his Lord. He will live out his life and dies, for the very first time.
And the Muslims never considered Jesus to be false prophet, anyway. We just say that he is no god or lord. He never said that anyone should worship him, while he was alive. If you have any proof, please bring it out. All the lord/god, worship mambo jambo, was after he had been raised up. I am waiting and I only have 30 minutes before I start preparing for Good Friday!
Where is the answer to Longman's straightforward and poignant question?
If indeed Jesus Christ was sent ONLY to the house of Isreal while Mohamed was sent to the whole world . . . why then is there an anti-christ? Why is there no anti-mohammed? I reproduce longman's question here:
You finally proved my point. You read one back in high school and now it is different?? Yet I still have the bible I got from my folks back in the 70's to this day and you want to tell me it has changed since then even though I read the same and have new ones today that read the same?? Thank you for confirming my point @Olabowale. I suggest again that you actually PICK UP A BOOK and READ IT. INstead of continuing this ramblings in here for no reason. You waste your own time when instead of actually reading the book, you come in to spout jargons. Again, I am not asking you to tell me what you have made your mind believe of the religion or the book, What I am asking you to do is simply pick up the book. Read a Chapter from beginning to end in PLAIN ENGLISH OR YORUBA, whichever of the two you are most fluent in and more able to understand.
Notice that I keep saying in my posts to you that I am not here to sell you Christianity but to get you to read a book as is instead of continually inserting your own words and meaning where it does not exist. I would rather spend my time outside melting snow in my yard with a mini hair dryer than spend it debating with someone who does not want to read up and make sure that what he has is even close to factual data but is instead quick to mouth off meaningless jargons over and over. I never asked you who switched from the one religion to the other. That has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS POST OR ANY. Infact, I have seen people move into a Life of crime after years of doing good in society. Does that then mean that we should all follow the path they followed cause they did??
READ THE BOOK AND READ IT AS IS and then come back to speak.
Ok no prb. I am not stressed and will never be even though an very busy now.
I dont think it is.
Do you have to apologise when you will still repeat the same thing again? To be honest with you, I like you as a person though of different religion but hate your approaches to debates. You keep using vulgar language, forcing people to reply in the same manner which I for one dont like doing. Why not try showing moral in your post rather than your way of responding to issues?