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Born Again Christian Women Wearing Make-up, Is It Biblical?

In Nigeria, they were some women who were forbidden by their pastors from applying nail polish, or wearing makeup on their face. An arguement as such surfaced in high school when one of my mates in support of this ban, inquired why a woman, would deface her nails with nail polish. His view was that it was just plain wrong. So, when I came to America I broached this question to some baptist girls at my former job. They told me that there was nothing wrong with wearing make-up.

What do you think?

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Those whose confidence is in scientists rather than the word of God should read this:

Make-up 'Peril' For Teen Girls

By JANE HAMILTON

Consumer Affairs Editor

Published: 23 Dec 2009

TEENAGE girls wearing make-up risk serious health problems, shock research claims.

They can absorb a cocktail of dangerous chemicals linked to cancer, infertility and serious hormone problems, the study found.

The danger is greater the younger girls start using make-up as their brains and bodies are still developing - making them more susceptible to chemical damage.

British girls start using beauty products around age 11, but some salons are open to kids as young as six.

And lab tests on girls aged 14 to 19 found ALL of them were contaminated with chemicals including dangerous phthalates, triclosan, parabens and musks.

Depression

All are commonly used in cosmetics. Scientists have linked these chemicals to cancer and hormone disruption - and some fear they could be connected to depression and early puberty.

The Environmental Working Group study is the first looking at the effects of cosmetics on teenagers.

The team based in Washington DC, US, found youngsters typically use around 17 personal care products each day - such as nail polish and hair dye - while adult women use just 13.

Campaigner Stacy Malkan said: "By the time most girls become teenagers many have a daily make-up ritual.

"As the layers add up so does exposure to dangerous chemicals, and that's very bad news for a young girl's health."

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2782089/Make-up-peril-for-teenage-girls.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News#ixzz0an2T610q

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2782089/Make-up-peril-for-teenage-girls.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News

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in everything, you have the good and bad side of it. to me anything we do on earth God looks at the motive of why you are doing that particular thing.

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No, lol. I'm the first to say women have not lived up to 1Timothy 2, not you. I see/saw your point though. It's great to hear that you're seeing mine.

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^ that's okay. I wanted you to see the problem in your position and your refusal to respond indicates to me that you do see the problem with a layman literal interpretation of that verse yanked out of the context in which Paul said it. It is this same problem that causes some to insinuate Paul taught that women should not speak in church.

  If women cannot braid their hair (whatever kind of braid it was), then they cannot wear gold or pearls or any kind of expensive clothes whatsoever. And no right thinking christian would subscribe to such a position.

1 Tim 2 "I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." Lemme state in explicit terms that I submit, agree and believe 1,000,000% the above verse BUT we must look at the context in which Paul said this:

Firstly - Context is everything! Paul laid down these rules for "propriety in worship"  in other words these guidelines, first and foremost were for when women came to church! A woman athlete running the 100m dash surely will be very scantily clad, with the entire definition of her fit figure contoured and showing, but is her dressing inappropriate for the occasion? of course not. When I go to the gym and play bball, I wear shorts sometimes, and a tight fitting tanktop - is it appropriate dressing for the setting? of course but would I wear such to church? of course not. And would I wear a dress suit to the gym or the grocery store or for when I wash my car? that would be silly and inappropriate.

Secondly - Paul specifically mentioned "Braids" "Gold" "Pearls" and "Expensive clothes" for a specific reason. The problem in the church in that time was that these specific items were specifically worn by women ostentatiously, in an effort to outdo and outshow each other and hence Paul's[b] specific criticism[/b] of those items!

  If it were in modern times, Paul might scold women who wear 6 inch heels to church or those huge loophole earings or deep eyeshadow and plum red lipstick. The problem was NOT those items, but it was the women and the attitude with which they wore them, and the negative association those items carried. Scripture is more than black or white, we need to read in context and understand that certain directives to the early church were not meant at all to be stretched and projected and become rule and law for christians in subsequent generations.

 

That being said, I will be the first to say we women, including myself have not lived up to 1 Tim 2 by a long stretch. But we are all works in progress and will continually grow in obedience to scriptural directives.

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Sorry ma sister, I'm not giving a further response than I gave. Read through on my little talk with biina. I'll stop there, at least for now.

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I say we should present our bodies as a living sacrifice and RENEW our minds by the Word of God, not drawing back because of the misplaced focus of others.

I still believe we should be fair in our judgements and look at every part, not just one part. May God's Spirit glorify Christ.

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We have to go back to the topic of the thread, which I feel is an example of being focused on the literal interpretations of the words.

I doubt anybody would argue that a christian should be humble, modest, etc in not just appearance ,but in everything we do.

Most would also say that they are modest, while some would say anyone that wears gold or braids their hair etc are not modest. I say you should look at your/their deeds to find the truth, not the appearance.

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Now biina, why have I asked for the meanings of shamefacedness and sobriety. I do have a dico, I know the meaning. But my point is that our generation has lost the meaning. The verse itself v9 is lost. We think on other things.

Normally, people would adorn i.e decorate themselves with broided hair, gold, pearls and costly array. It's evident in the world, in society, even amongst us. But v9 clearly says christians should NOT decorate themselves with these things but decorate/adorn themselves with the EXACT opposite shamefacedness(EXTREMELY modest, shy, embarrassed, bashful) and sobriety(serious, plain, NOT bright). Sorry I rarely see this qualities 2day. I do not say 'hey you're going to hell wearing what'. I'm saying we're found wanting in these verses.

The boldness of costly array, gold and pearls has being embraced ahead of sobriety and shamefacedness that are expected to decorate us.

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To obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams

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I'll still maintain that I've seen some appearance more spiritual than some carnal praying. Visible obedience to God's Word doesn't necessarily translate to preoccupation of outside, or a growth from outside to inside. I've not suggested that. As important as it is that our hearts/inside be right with God, I still hold that our outside can also be right with God. It doesn't need be a preoccupation. It just takes simple obedience, a work perfected inside and demonstrated outside.

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Sobriety is defined as the quality or state of being sober. Does that mean a christian should never take morphine?

Shamefacedness means to be extremely modest or shy; bashful. So we are back with to the definition of modesty.

You make reference to Gold and pearls, and I asked if Silver and beads are acceptable?

You are also yet to answer at what price an item is deemed costly?

It does require 'rocket science' to see that the widow's two mites is more than the Rich man's abundance. If one followed your suggestion, the rich people, whose donations were physically more valuable, gave more.

Prayer is purely spiritual, as it is communication from your soul. It can be done without any physical action. How loudly you shout does not make your prayers any louder in God's ears. Depending on the individual, you might act physically (like closing your eyes) to help you concentrate, but closing your eyes is not the prayer and how you act physically doesn't make one prayer more acceptable than another.

The word of God acts on your soul and transforms you from the inside out, and not outside in. Being preoccupied with the physical actions was one of the shortcomings of the Pharisees, or do you not remember the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector? The pharisee did all the right physical actions but his heart was in the wrong place, while the tax collector had his in the right place.

You are modest to the extent that your heart is modest, and not if you dont wear jewelery. One can argue that one whose heart is in the right place will not be spending money on certain items when others around him/her are in need, but you cannot say that anyone that does not wear expensive items is definitely taking care of the needy. Focus should be on the output and not the input.

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I'm tempted to ask where are the others JeSoul and co. Its funny though. She'd earlier asked. I wouldn't want us going back and forth. I asked JeSoul similar questions. You look into your dictionary, some of these things are explained. i.e shamefacedness and sobriety as opposed to gold, pearls and costly array. The only place where I expect issues is in the area of modesty. Modesty might be argued to be relative, just as giving may be argued to be relative. The arguements are strong, but it should be relative to God's Word as well. It doesn't call for rocket science to know stingy and generous even though giving is relative. You'll know modesty when you see it however relative.

But gold, pearls, shamefacedness, sobriety aren't relative. People just disobey because they want to. Who says praying is spiritual while clothing is physical. The Word of God is spirit and life. I've seen some appearance more spiritual than some carnal praying. God considers the inside and outside.Who am I to fiddle with the outside?

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@Image123

The bible says we know the difference between right and wrong. What you are referring to is our attempts at justifying the wrong doing, but then that a whole different topic.

On topic, please then answer

- what is a modest apparel?

- what is decency and propriety?

- can I wear cheap jewelery?

- is silver acceptable? or platinum or stainless steel

- diamonds or fake stones?

- are traditional beads acceptable?

- can I perm my hair?

- what about wearing wigs?

- how much is expensive? NGN10, NGN100, NGN1000, NGN10,0000 ?

- and of course what is the standard for the men or are men free to dress as they please?

You talk about praying and going to church, praying  is different as it is spiritual whereas the topic at hand is regards to the physical.

If we make no assumptions about the 'church' , is in not possible to have a church that is inimical to spiritual development?

If yes, do you then continue to attend the church simply because it is a called a church?

Do you not evaluate a church by its works?

The definition of how to dress physically should be measured in the resultant works.

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Why come up with the excuse of what our obedience to God's Word doesn't guarantee. Does going to church, or even praying guarantee our living right or getting to heaven? Do we then say, since it doesn't guarantee, then no more prayer no more going to church. I think we obey God's Words because we love Him, not because it makes us look better before God.

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biina,

I beg to disagree that most often, we know where we stand deep in our hearts. No, I think most often. We're very poor judges. We might feel/think we're doing great OR we might feel we've not done well, proly due to circumstances we face. But until we look into the perfect law of liberty(the Word), that's what tells us where we stand by the Spirit of God. The Word is the standard and God stands by it. You can't be wrong if you follow the standard by faith.

Coming more closely to our discuss, the standard is not just to be clothed with good works from 1Timothy2, but also shamefacedness, sobriety, modest apparel NOT WITH braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array. We should consider the whole standard, not only verse10.

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Secondly, you can address the issue of if men should be concerned about their dressing?

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Even though the Holy Bible specifically advises women to adopt modest dressing

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Fine biina, so we agree on the literal meaning of the passage. What a relief. But what stops us from obeying, seeing that the doers of the Word are the Blessed from James 1v 25. I believe we can actually obey without making it a focus or sort of dedication.

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In this case the standard is to be clothed with good deeds, but you cannot say being plainly dressed guarantees that one is clothed with good deeds, nor being expensively dressed makes certain that the person is not; the problem being that plainly, expensively, rich, poor, tall, short, etc are relative measures. Thus if asked what is plain or expensive, each would likely come up with his own definition.

The focus should be on the good deeds and not the dressing. The instructions as regards the dressing is to guide one towards the good deeds. If your deeds are not as expected, you should move more towards the plain side. Please note that it is not only the physical appearance per se that dictates the good deeds, but wherein your heart lies i.e. who is in charge: your saved soul or your unsaved flesh. The physical clothing just serves as another way of influencing who is in charge. Another example being fasting, as hunger is a need of the flesh, but by fasting i.e. denying what the flesh wants (and needs), we are subjecting the body to the will of the soul.

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The Bible should be the standard, not each person judging for themselves. There's no point feeling you do well, when you can know in line with God's Word if you do well.

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Biina: Gbam! Bravo!! I like people who express opinions without too much verbosity like I often do! By the way, control systems was my favourite subject in school. Are you also an engineer?

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Its like a simple control system, you check the current output against the desired output, and if there is a difference/error, you make adjustments to the input that will reduce the error and thus bring the outputs in harmony. You do not check the input so see if there is error in the output, cos different systems (i.e. people) will give different output even though given the same input. If you are producing the right outputs, then you dont need to change the inputs, but if your output is unsatisfactory, you should check your inputs.

No matter how plain you present yourself, it is pointless if you are not producing the 'good deeds'. Each person has to judge for themselves if they are producing 'good deed' outputs

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@biina

So why are we not following this 'guide to good deeds'?

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1 Tim 2 expressed Paul's view and advice on issues.

I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

The do's and don'ts were to guide to the good deeds.

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Ok JeSoul,

My answer was and is that I'm taking 1Timothy 2v9 at its value, not face value. I totally agree with 1Timothy2v9. Now, go on the braids search. Is it the same thing with what we generally refer to as braids or plaits?

Leave the poster girl out of this, at least for now. Let's deal with 1Timothy first.

@all

Do words like meat, bread, flight, braid/broided/plait really mean exactly what they meant or were referred to in NT times? I'm not here to win an arguement, I'm just sincerely looking at 1Timothy2. Of course, I may be wrong, but you've got to prove that with points not sentiment, or what we've always being taught.

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Lol at Esther the poster girl. I wanna be a poster girl too! Me, me, me! Lol. Sigh. Too bad i would need makeup before the photography for the media poster. Sigh. And this court has not resolved the matter. Just kidding, but i gotta love this JeSoul girl.

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JeSoul my sista

Why look ye for the living among the dead?

I answered your question. We're not in a law court where we're looking for evidence5C, exhibit 42 to gold against me. Re-read me post. If yor sincerely see that I didn't answer yor, say it again. Then, I'll know your're either lying or sincere. I'll answer again.

Wetin consign me with Esther now? I'm talking 1Timothy 2v9. Later we fit talk Esther with 2mm pole.

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@Davidylan: « #82 on: December 15, 2009, 10:44 PM »

You can lose the the wife just as quickly as you get her, or when another davidylan with some kinda edgy attitude to him comes along.

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@Biina: Abi o! Shebi God killed an animal in Genesis 3 and used its fur to cover them? So are we not wearing just animal skin today?

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@ jesoul

Easther's beauty treatment was to meet-up with the standard of a heathen king.

That is the world standard.

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those making make-up a big deal, should watch it. . . . .it is mundane issues like this that makes people miss God.

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Do some churches encourage pre-marital sex??

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In all that you do, focus should be on the motive and effect of your actions, and less on the actions themselves. God is primarily concerned with your soul and not with your flesh (which cannot be saved). A christian should always strife for supremacy of the soul over the flesh.

Makeup and jewelery existed in most cultures, even if they were not  necessarily same as we know them today, thus to say people of old did not use makeup is misinformation. Your reasons for wearing makeup, and its effect on you (and others), will point out if the act was sinful or not. If you wear makeup to satisfy your vanity or to seduce another, then there is a problem with where your heart lies.

Do not get me wrong, as it is good to look presentable. Joseph cleaned up himself when appearing before Pharoah, likewise Esther did same before going to the King. Even the ark and temple of the lord were decorated and made beautiful.

Moderation is good as a cautionary flag, because rarely does good ever comes out of being excessive in any thing of the world. Yet I would advise to look beyond that and always ask the questions: why am I doing it, and what have I gained from it.

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^^ All Churches should encourage Absintence

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There are many reasons a Christian woman could have or give for wearing make-up. But it does have the effect of altering her appearance and hence of people's image of her.

Suppose in this instance it does cause others to sin. She can possibly claim ignorance of the effects. Is that an excuse, when the bible says

my people perish for lack of knowledge??

That is why some churches recommend abstinence.

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but isnt that the idea?

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@ Topic

In moderation it's not so bad, I agree with you plat

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@topic- as long as it is not distracting and not being used for the wrong reasons (making men lust)

Then its ok.

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What does this mean?

What of those who think wearing shoes is too extravagant?

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Well that could just about mean anything. It is an instruction in the bible that women should appear modestly. I am sure in the Nigerian context there should be no confusion as to what modest dressing entails.

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1 Tim 2: I also want women to dress modestly, with [b]decency [/b]and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.

'Modesty', 'decency', etc are constructed, subjective and culture-specific terms.

We should think about that before attempting to legislate what women everywhere can or cannot wear.

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  If He was okay with it then, why would He change His mind now?

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That was Old Testament, what does it say in NT?

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True . . . but the same bible has lots of examples of women with make up. Did they forget that verse?

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Ah JeSoul,

So it's first come first serve basis?ok. I'm not taking that scripture at face value. I am taking it at its value, without taking away from the Word or overspiritualising the text to favor anyone. It says and I agree 'women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with SHAMEFACEDNESS and Sobriety; NOT WITH broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array.

Now hope you do the assignment on what broided hair looked like in them days.

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 You beat me to it girl. I was just about to enter Queen Esther as Exhibit A.

-Queen Esther, a woman of incredible virtue, faith and grace, used mightily by God to save an entire nation.

-Queen Esther was also a seasoned, veteran beauty queen. Infact her beauty regime alone took years before she went before the king. Es 2:  Before a girl's turn came to go in to King Xerxes, she had to complete twelve months of beauty treatments prescribed for the women, six months with oil of myrrh and six with perfumes and cosmetics.

 My oh my! see the above. Esther consumed with such vanity, daring to participate in such when she's already fearfully and beautifully made, what a sinful woman she was.

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Why? Because of the adversary the devil who moves about seeking whom to destroy, That is why Christians are called upon to abstain from certain things.

At the end of the day it is up to the person involved to be obedient to the promptings of the inner voice.

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I think I made myself clear then.  Why is it expected of us to abstain from them if it's not sinful?

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@stllwater

You were one of the people to go on about moderation. What do you understand by it?

Some things may not be sinful in of themselves but Christians may be expected to simply abstain from them.

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Well they can exude an aura, which could make them enticing, intimidating, or even downright scary to a man. It all depends on the guy's perception and temperament.

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