From here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/aug/09/religion-christianity
From here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/aug/09/religion-christianity
Sorry, aletheia. A little cranky today. Still, there are no limits to His love. You're free to put them on yours.
One applauds Ms Rice. Some of her books are impossibly good but she explores dark things. The Witching Hour made one think she dabbles in stuff. One of the last people I thought could embrace Christ. Go, Annie.
Loving someone does not mean you cannot tell him or her that she is doing wrong or in the wrong.
Therefore, it is possible to love people who are gay or whatever even as a Christian.
The only thing you should watch out for is their lifestyle influencing yours.
Love as a christian isn't restricted to just other christians/brethren; it goes beyond that to those who aren't.
We love the persons but do not love their wrong choices; which we should;whenever the opportunity presents itself,
let them know how we feel about them.
But whatever choice they make in such regard, we must respect.
Maybe Christ had a right to 'condemn' whatever He chose. You, er, don't. Unless you're planning to take the sins of the world on your shoulders and die for humanity sometime soon, I suggest you mind your own religious business. I recall Him condemning religious hypocrites, not sinners. In fact, He was condemned by the religious establishment because He was a friend of sinners. We are ALL sinners, and His love encompassed us all. Since He lived and died without ever seeing or stepping into a church, and never once designated a class or caste upon whom we exclusively lavish our 'love', I think you're talking out of your hat. I'm almost certain He had nothing to say about people who refuse to be anti-gay, anti-feminist or anti-secular humanism either. Or people who choose Him but drop the man-made trappings of Christianity. But I'm sure you and the bizarre, church-fence-hugging 'christ' you've invented have plenty to say about that.
I John 3:14. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
It is the way of the world to talk about a "love" without arbitrary distinctions, an all-encompassing "love" that fails to condemn sin as wrong, forgetting that Christ condemned sin and will come again to Judge it.
Did you notice the bolded? I do understand your point is why I posted that Caveat.
And madmax is right, true love is not selective and does not say "my friend is right just because he is my friend". Christian love is based on truth and regards all men, whether an Osama bin Laden or a David Oyedepo as a creature of God. Who does wrong will be the wrong party before God regardless of belief - How He deals with it is His business
Love is what characterises the disciples of Christ, not 'love of brethren'; whatever that means. The love of Christ has no such arbitrary distinctions, and certainly not one that begins and ends within church fences. Rice is free to be anti-whatever she wants. It's really nobody else's concern. Annie! Annie! Annie!
18:1 After these things, I saw another angel coming down out of the sky, having great authority. The earth was illuminated with his glory.
18:2 He cried with a mighty voice, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and she has become a habitation of demons, a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird!
18:3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of her impure passion, the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from the abundance of her luxury."
18:4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, that you have no participation in her sins, and that you don't receive of her plagues,
18:5 for her sins have reached to the sky, and God has remembered her iniquities.
18:6 Return to her just as she returned, and repay her double as she did, and according to her works. In the cup which she mixed, mix to her double.
18:7 However much she glorified herself, and grew wanton, so much give her of torment and mourning. For she says in her heart, 'I sit a queen, and am no widow, and will in no way see mourning.'
18:8 Therefore in one day her plagues will come: death, mourning, and famine; and she will be utterly burned with fire; for the Lord God who has judged her is strong.
18:9 The kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived wantonly with her, will weep and wail over her, when they look at the smoke of her burning,
18:10 standing far away for the fear of her torment, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For your judgment has come in one hour.'
18:11 The merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise any more;
18:12 merchandise of gold, silver, precious stones, pearls, fine linen, purple, silk, scarlet, all expensive wood, every vessel of ivory, every vessel made of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble;
18:13 and cinnamon, incense, perfume, frankincense, wine, olive oil, fine flour, wheat, sheep, horses, chariots, bodies, and people's souls.
18:14 The fruits which your soul lusted after have been lost to you, and all things that were dainty and sumptuous have perished from you, and you will find them no more at all.
18:15 The merchants of these things, who were made rich by her, will stand far away for the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning;
18:16 saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, she who was dressed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls!
18:17 For in an hour such great riches are made desolate.' Every shipmaster, and everyone who sails anywhere, and mariners, and as many as gain their living by sea, stood far away,
18:18 and cried out as they looked at the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What is like the great city?'
18:19 They cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and mourning, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had their ships in the sea were made rich by reason of her great wealth!' For in one hour is she made desolate.
18:20 Rejoice over her, O heaven, you saints, apostles, and prophets; for God has judged your judgment on her."
18:21 A mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down, and will be found no more at all.
18:22 The voice of harpists, minstrels, flute players, and trumpeters will be heard no more at all in you. No craftsman, of whatever craft, will be found any more at all in you. The sound of a mill will be heard no more at all in you.
18:23 The light of a lamp will shine no more at all in you. The voice of the bridegroom and of the bride will be heard no more at all in you; for your merchants were the princes of the earth; for with your sorcery all the nations were deceived.
18:24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on the earth."
Obviously Babylon is the false church which becomes the order of the day. Why does the Word ask that we come out of it, not "forgive others and move on"?
It doesn't make spiritual sense. An amazed at the applause some of you guys are giving to her in her backsliden state or about to. Any spiritual person should know this lady is suffering from discouragement, it is a sign of weakness. Her utterance and decision is unscriptural. "because the usher offended me , i will quit church"
A Christian has 2 ministry . 1. Ministry to the world . 2.ministry in the body of christ.
You are under obligation to fulfil the two. Christianity is not the sitting at home idea, and "talking to my God alone till I die" No! . We are vital part of a whole. We have a ministry to one another in the church. Fellowship is a vital part of Christianity.
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some[ is]; but exhorting[ one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
You can't love God and not love the brethren , even in their mistakes. Your love for God must be demonstrated first in the church. If not you don't love God at all.
1 John 5:1
and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1 John 4:20
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
So whatever her reason, that shouldn't make her do contrary to the word. You can't love christ and refrain from his people and from spiritual responsibility in the church. Jesus had said "offences shall come" but love does not take account of evil. We forgive others and move on. The church is not a place of perfect people but a place of perfecting people.
Anne Rice is walking away on the basis of perversion of terms. The church has mainly become the LovePeddler of Revelations, following the god of the world. Seeing as that LovePeddler is what has been renamed Christianity, leaving it is not tantamount to leaving Christ. Indeed, the true church are referred to as "Ecclesia" or the called-out ones and Jesus Himself said a time would come when true believers would worship in Spirit and in Truth. That presupposes there would also be worshipping in the "flesh and in error", does it not?
Anne Rice is then leaving fake organised worldly "churchism" which has been renamed to mean Christianity and saying, "Hey thats what I'm dropping NOT the teachings, mold and truth of Jesus". It is another matter whether she is sincere about it.
The difference between your allegory and what we have here is that yes, there are "illegals" in Nigeria but these are few relative to true Nigerians. In Christianity, it is the "real" ones that are few and are being choked by the majority "fakes". Since true believers are not bothered about titles, adulation or terminologies, its like saying "take the name whist we hold the truth"
The church never had christ in the first place, so they never had a christ to have abandoned. They merely used the image of Jesus(which they created themselves) to control and deceive the masses from day one. Jesus' teachings were twisted, turned upside down from the word go. Jesus had never ever supported organized religion, which was why he was a rebel who went against the establishment, or so the legend goes.
The truth is that "chritians" and the church have long abandoned Christ (They claim to know God but by there actions deny him titus 1:16) most churches and christians do not teach or practise the core teachings of christ, they only use his name to project their various church establishments, their worship is a farce cos they deny christ by their actions so yes you can stop being a "christian" and still belong to christ. I all ready wrote a thread titled "The church has rejected christianity" you can search for it, I can't provide the link now cos I am browsing with a mobile device.