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Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire?

If Yes!, then Christian God have no mercy on Innocent Human Beings, since Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc,

If No!, then you did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise (as Christians claim)

In a more clear way, Christians claim that every human being needs Jesus Christ in order to enter Paradise, so, the question is; What of those that exist before Jesus Christ was born by Mary? Since they do not know Jesus at that time, and as well they do not know any Trinity or something like that, are they going to the Hell Fire? Or did Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joseph, etc preach Trinity at their time, or did they Preach that Son of God (as Christians claim) will come to Earth, so worship him,

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38 answers

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_2.html

very interesting article.

Pilgrim would like you to read it.

And logicallly discuss it.

no deciet intended ,just wanted to clarify some things.

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@Pilgrim.1: I answered your questions above. Yet still repeat it. maybe you want auwal87 toanswer it? If i were to advice him, I just say copy what i wrote and call it a day.

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@ajadrage

This quoted post above caught my attention hence my liftng it out. Are you saying that there would be no punishment for evil doers?

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John the baptist died before Jesus Christ, does that mean that he is in hell fire? There is no physical place of a burning fire where man would go after death. There never has been and I doubt if there ever would be that place of torment that people are so wont to use in scaring unsuspecting believers and none believers alike. After we die, our physical bodies decay and metamorphoses to compost manure. Our breadth belongs to the giver and it is to him that it returns just the way it was before it animated us.

No afterlife, no consciousness, no reasoning nor discernment after death. After the death of an individual, the very next thing that occurs is the promised resurrection and both those that lived and died before Jesus, during the time of Jesus and the over 2000 years after the time of Jesus would hear a voice call and would all come out from their resting places into a new system. Following that is what has been called the judgement and everyone that has ever been in existence on this earth right up from the days of Adam would be a witness to that day. No one would come and face judgement from a hell or a purgatory or whatever anyone might decide to invent, we would all individually be called from our prior state of total oblivion and inexistence.

This is not an impossibility as it has been made manifest already by the death and resurrection of the young man of Nain, Lazarus, Jairius daughter among other records as found in the bible. Even Jesus Christ showed the ultimate resurrection promise when after his resurrection he assumed his godlike being which the entirety of predestined, called, sanctified and glorified mankind should expect to become after this system of things. . .

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@Pilgrim.1: Princess, how are you? Someday, I will be sending you Id greetings! I have a pretty good feeling that you will come back! NOw to your post.

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*Fake Pilgrim

That was exactly the answer I was looking from you,

If Abraham, Moses, and Jesus saw God, then indeed Prophet Muhammad also saw God,

Though I am not sure which God the Bible claims they saw, because I saw in Exodus 24 9-11 they even eat and drink with Him, are you sure He is God (HE EAT AND DRINK), I do not think God will Eat and Drink just like we do, he is far above such things,  And in John 6:46 you said Jesus said No Man has seen God, but Moses and Abraham were Men and you said they saw God, who is mistaken here? All those that said they saw God may be lying because even you can wake up tomorrow and say you saw God (as in the case of some of my christian friends, they all saw God, and he talked to them),  So I don't know which God you people are seeing, our God is non-comparable to all, and He does not EAT or DRINK, you cannot compare him to any.

In the Holy Qur'an, Prophet Moses demanded to see God, but he fainted when He was tried, so he only communicated with God in voice only.

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@auwal87,

Relax - there are answers as to the Biblical fact that the Son of God had seen the FATHER in a way that no other person had seen Him! That is what He (Jesus) meant when He stated:

John 6:46

'Not that any man hath seen the Father,

save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father'

It is clear that Jesus was apparently stating that He Himself had seen the Father, even though no man had seen Him. This is why a lot of people who are unable to distinguish the 'Logos' from the Father in John 1:1 have tended to read their own inconsistencies therein and thought of it as a 'contradiction'. On the contrary, there are no contradictions - for Jesus again had earlier declared to the Jews as concerning the FATHER: "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape" (John 5:37).

As the 'Logos' (that is the express appellation that is accorded Jesus Himself - see Revelation 19:13), He is the express image and Revealer of the Father. All that may be known of the true manifestation of the Father is found in the Son - and He expressly made the point that no man knows who the Son is except the Father; nor does any man know who the Father is except the Son, and he to whom the Son reveals the Father (see Luke 10:22). If the Son of God does not reveal the Father to anyone, such a person will definitely not know Him - as surely as nobody will know who the Son is, unless the father reveals Him to that person's heart!

The bottomline to your question is as outlined from John 6:46 - yes, Jesus made clear that He had seen the Father.

Let's go back to the Torah and see for ourselves:

Genesis 17:1

'And when Abram was ninety years old and nine,

the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him,

I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect'

Genesis 18:1

'And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre:

and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day'

Exodus 6:3

'And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob,

by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH

was I not known to them.'

Are these not clear pointers to the fact that Abraham indeed saw God when He appeared to him?

Not only so, but again the two criteria that I offered you from Numbers 12:6 are also applicable in Abraham's case; for (a) God indeed revealed Himself to Abraham when He appeared to him; and also (b) God spoke directly to Abraham, as we find in Genesis 17:3 - "God talked with him". And just to satisfy your curiosity, the Bible refers to Abraham as a prophet as well: "for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live" (Genesis 20:7).

I've already given you the references and direct quotes above - go check them out yourself. I would pray God that the answers help you see the condition of your own heart and realize that the Islamic deception you're parading has not really been helping you in the least. If it were only a matter of teasing your time away on the net, there would be no need to oblige you any responses - especially because you're no better than your folks who play the Islamic convenience game of never answering questions offered you even though your worries have been severally answered!

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@auwal87,

You're beginning to be predictable like the rest of your folks. Even when you were blessed with two eyes, you still act like someone with a huge cataract and pretend you can't see issues with your eyes wide open! The answers are not "pending" - they have been proffered (refer back to the links).

The typical attitude of illiterate Muslims is to chase their shoelaces on the same spot and hide behind their tawdry excuses of not having read answers to their plight! Even so, not in one instance have you attempted the few questions offered you! WHERE have you responded?

I'm used to your boohoos, and you don't need to let the public know that your nanny hasn't changed your diaper.

Lol. . . it should have been: "When and Where did Moses see God" - but there's room for improvement in your grammatical spanner-works. However, here's the answer you seek:

~ Did Moses see God?

(1) Exodus 24:9-11

9[/b]Then went up [b]Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy

of the elders of Israel: 10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet

as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body

of heaven in his clearness. 11[/b]And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also [b]they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Please note: the verses above specifically mentioned the names of those in that event and clearly said that "THEY saw the God of Israel!!"

Further, there is ample and conclusive evidence as regards the two Biblical facts of authenticating genuine prophets raised and sent by God:

(a) Moses indeed saw God; and

(b) God spoke directly with Him as He did with all the Biblical prophets.

Consider the following:

Deuteronomy 34:10

'And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses,

whom the LORD knew face to face'

Exodus 33:11

'And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh

unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant

Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

God even confirms that Moses saw Him in clear terms:

Numbers 12:7

My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not

in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold:

wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

In the verse just above, the two principles are together combined as applicable to Moses in a more pronounced form - that God both revealed Himself and also spoke to Moses face to face in very lucid terms - no ambuguities about the fact!!

Now, that's just about Moses. Let's move on to the others that you mentioned.

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Re: Christians: Are all those that died before Jesus Going to Hell? Answer Pending

*Fake Pilgrim

1. When and Where did Moses saw God?

2. When and Where did Jesus saw God?

3. When and Where did Abraham saw God?

If you cannot give the time and venue, at least give us the story,

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Isn't your excuse becoming even more ridiculous? Even after it was recorded long ago that Moses and the prophets saw God revealed to them, no one thought of drawing pictures of God and worshipping Him as you suggested!

The end of the matter is that Muhammad never saw Him. Period! What purpose does your excuse serve to assume that Muhammad would have seen 'Allah' and yet refuse to say that he did? Why did the Biblical prophets not hide the fact that they had seen God as He revealed Himself to them?

Just take it - a prophet who pretended to have seen 'Allah' and yet deceived people to suppose that he had not seen him - is a false prophet! On the other hand, if he did not see him and Muslims are trying to excuse it into faking that Muhammad saw 'Allah', there again they are confirming that he was a false prophet!

Either way, God did not reveal Himself to Muhammad - and the facts are obvious from three points:

(a) Muhammad taught the direct opposite of what those prophets taught!

(b) Muhammad did not know who the Holy Spirit was, as did the Biblical prophets!

(c) God did not speak to Muhammad directly as He did to the Biblical prophets!

If these issues are as stated, the point is made that they establish Muhammad for the false prophet he was. QED.

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@MP007: I like the way you retracted your earlier statement which I challenged you on!

Now about the 10 commandments, please give us how you can fit Jesus as God, Son of God, etc,

into the first few? Say 1 through 3 for a starter? Please write out for us each commandment with its

appropriate number and fit Jesus into it, with full explanation!

Thanks.

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this is not a debate ok, Jesus serves as our advocate , i was reffering to his death on the cross, offers u the grace to apologise for your wrong doings.WOW!, BEFORE the christ came,God spoke to his children but they were not reffered to as christians, I stated that all that believed in the coming of christ as the MESSAIH and the son of God i BELIEVE MADE IT TO HEAVEN, Muslims have never believed that christ is the son of God or that he was the messaih sent , so what are u talking abt?, Being rapturable or heaven worthy before christ required people to keep Gods laws, da 10 commandments,

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there is no point in arguing, u cant understand the word of God without being firm in the word, Its like giving an organic chemistry journal to an accountant, You just dont get it,

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The question u used is incomplete, u should have asked like this "did christians who served and believe God and the coming of christ go to heaven"? Christians before christ believed in the coming of christ and they killed animals and used to blood for washing them clean of their sins that was what they believed.God's judgment on his people was more severe and harsh compared to now (Jesus became our advocate after he died), remember rafira's and co?

I can't help it but to copy the entry of MP007, directly above! If it is true that serving and believing in God, and the coming of Christ qualify any one to go to heaven, then as I have said in my entry in some thread about 3 weeks ago, the Muslims are already part of the people of Paradise! (Olowo Tee, Nwando, Davidylan, please chalk this one up for the Muslims and yourselves!

My man MP007, kinda surprised me, when he said that, 'Christians before Christ believed in the coming of Christ, ' You guys already know what am going to do with you? Put all the Christians on defense, get ye back! at least get MP007 to defend his stand, one way or the other! My question is this: Was there any Christian before Christ Jesus son of Mary? I wanna know. I demand an answer from al ya people! lol. Nwando, Davidylan, where is the answer? Help your brother MP007, please!

MP007 was sincere enough to tell us that Jesus became the advocate of the Christians. Advocate is like the Lawyer or like the middle man? Either way the same position we found Moses with the general population of Children of Israel, even up till this very moment. Yet the children of Israel never called Moses son of, 1/3 of or God! Yet Moses miracles and influence were greater than that of Jesus. Moses was the law giver! He had control over who lived and died amongst them. Jesus did not have either, but the exaggerators would not but win hearts and minds, indeed souls of the GENTILES with their rope a drugs! (Thats Muhammad Ali's gimmick against young George Foreman in the '74 Rumble in the Jungle fight in Kenya!) Or is this advocate position like what the idol worshippers place their idols? If it is, then the Jews are correct to say that the Christians are Idol worshippers! Davidylan, I told you so. Have a great day at whatever you will do today. Olorun Olodumare a je ko di Imale, to ni igbagbo ninu Olorun kon. Iam sure Nwando knows more Yoruba than me. So stop fronting. Biko, Omo girl!

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The question u used is incomplete, u should have asked like this "did christians who served and believe God and the coming of christ go to heaven"? Christians before christ believed in the coming of christ and they killed animals and used to blood for washing them clean of their sins that was what they believed.God's judgment on his people was more severe and harsh compared to now (Jesus became our advocate after he died), remember rafira's and co.

The coming of Jesus made it easier to confess one's sin without having to go for confession and kill rams and cows in other to use their blood for confession and repentance. Thank God that Jesus christ came, and of course , those that confessed their sins and believed in God and the coming of the messiah I believe made heaven,

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Nice response

Maa Salam

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*Fake Pilgrim

Aisha was not lying, you need to consider three things, the moment Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) told us or Aisha in this case that he saw the Almighty, the first question that will be raised is; How did He look like? What is His colour? His Size, and all sots of questions, Being the Supreme Being above all, it is unwise to describe Him, that was why she kept on saying that "If anyone told you that Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) has seen God, tell him he is a liar" Why? Because he have never said so, to be logically out of the error, she never said; "Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) said He has never seen God" But she use the phrase "Anyone that says Prophet Muhammad has seen God is lying"

So to be out of the above Question "How did God looks like?" The answer as to which Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) has seen God as positive will eventually raise the question, How God looks like, Imagine if Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) has describe the physical look of the Almighty, he could have been drawn everywhere, and some might even construct that physical look and start worshipping him, some might even draw him in the places of Worship or their homes, etc, So it is a Mercy that Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) did not say He saw Almighty God in the Isra'i and Mi'iraji that took him to Jerusalem and eventually the Heaven in one night Journey,

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Since Muhammad failed the test of a genuine prophet (God never revealed Himself or speak directly to him), it is obvious that the Quraish prophet was spouting deceptions and hoodwinking gullible minds. Therefore: (So little you know about Islam. Infact zero is your knowledge about it. Have you heard of Isra wa Miraj? Thats the event in which Muhammad took leadership from the hands of the bani Israel Prophets, Jesus, Moses to name a few, and others who were before the bani Israel, eg Ibrahim, Noah, to name just a few. All of these are just the Isra part of this event.

The Miraj part is when he ascended to heavens and received directly from Allah the God Almighty, the commandment of Salah and the last 4 verses of Suratul Baqarah.

Read about the Isra in Surah Isra, in the first ayat

Read about the Miraj in Surah Najm.

The explanation for better under standing, go to tafsir ibn kathir. But I will not be surprised that you will not investigate it. Truth is very strange to you anyway.

(a) what would happen to those who died in the deception that Muhammad fabricated, especially after demonstrating that he was DENYING God's revelations to the OT prophets? (A man of intelligence from the Muslim responded to an Egyptian king in the presence of the leaders of Jews and Christians, when each one of them claimed that it is their individual prophet that will lead people of paradise. The Jew said it is Moses alone, and the Christian said it is Jesus alone. But the Muslim said, if either is the leader, we the Muslim will go with that leader. But if neither is the leader and it is Muhammad, both the Christians and the Jews will lose out on a greater option. Allah calls Muhammad His Messenger. Jibril the Archangel (Ruuh Qudus) calls Muhammad the Messenger of Allah. 1/4 of todays world population are calling him Allah's Messenger. What more is there?

Your Egyptian Christian leader when responding to the King of Egypt, in the above story accepted and declared that Jesus was meant to enter paradise! Paradise to God Allah the Almighty is a means of rewarding His good and faithful creations. He Himself is not one of them. In the same fashion He creates Hellfire as a means of punishing the evils among His creation. Neither is He from them. If Jesus is from Paradise, then he is a creation. God is separate and different from His creation.

Who among us is confused and flipflop every which way till sunday? The Christians, thats who.

(b) how do you reconcile the fact that Muhammad taught the direct opposite of what the OT prophets had received from God? (The old testament never speaks about God becoming a fetus in the womb of a virgin girl, then becoming a baby, who needed to be suckled, crawled, learn how to walk, and all that toddlers do, then being a little boy, and go through developmental stages. OT never said that God will be punished and died as inslaughter or hanged. How do you Pilgrim.1 reconcile this in the NT? Yet you can ask a Question about Qur'an, which generously and clearly corrected, the OT and NT as appropriate?

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@auwal87,

How does the Redeemer therefore connect with the question of the Blood?

Certainly, redemption is closely connected to the efficacy of the Blood; for without the Blood, there is no redemption: "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us" (Hebrews 9:12). Certainly, we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins (Col. 1:14 and Eph. 1:7).

But notice that it was only possible for the Blood of Jesus Christ to avail on our behalf through His being born as a Man - which is what the prophets have foretold in so many passages:

Isaiah 7:14

'Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;

Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,

and shall call his name Immanuel.'

The name "Immanuel" is simply 'God with Us' (cf. Matthew 1:23). God Himself would come to earth, being born as a Man, that through His Blood we might all be redeemed! This was not something that Christians made up - for the OT prophecies were not written by Christians! In many other verses of the OT, the prophets have spoken about the birth, ministry, death and resurrection of the Messiah - the last two (death and ressurection) which Muhammad categorically denied yet again!

To be honest with you, the very thought of the Incarnation was a huge struggle for me as a former Muslim. Even if Muhammad might have struggled with the deity of Jesus Christ and denied it, he certainly had no basis to also deny the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus which the OT prophets have clearly declared! You may think Muhammad's ideas about God were superlative - but wait to read some of the things he said about 'Allah', and then hopefully you will begin to understand why no one with the faintest intelligence should take Muhammad seriously!

Yes, indeed - the Blood of Jesus Christ is efficacious in all agaes - past, present, and future. The people who died before Jesus were born would still benefit from the power of His Blood:

Rom. 3:23-26

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption

that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a

propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare

his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,

through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time

his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him

which believeth in Jesus.

There is the answer to your query, and it reveals clearly the two issues involved here: the Blood of Jesus demonstrates:

(a) God's righteousness for the "remission of sins that are past"

[center]and[/center]

(b) God's righteousness at "this present time" also.

So, whether it has to do with past or present, God's mercy extends to everyone who had hope in His redemptive purposes. You can just imagine what will happen to Muhammad and all those whom he deceived into denying the revelation of God's redemption in the prophecies of the Biblical prophets!

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@auwal87,

Perhaps, in addition to what I've presented let me make a few observations and then leave you some queries.

When you asked about the fate of all those who died before the Lord Jesus Christ, you made some preconceived conclusions such that whether the answer was "YES" or "NO", you wanted to deliberately misrepresent the Biblical revelation of God. Reminder:

If you were seeking answers from a Biblical point of reference, there are enough. However, Jesus has always existed - and none of the persons you mentioned (Abraham, Moses, Noah) predated Him. Yet, to suppose that one did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise is to miss the value of redemption altogether. I'm not going to lay much blame on you thereto; because we know that, after having denied the revelation of God as given to the Biblical prophets, Muhammad also denied the core teaching of redemption in the Bible under his pretentious "revelations" from 'Allah'.

What about the Blood of Jesus Christ as applying to every believer even before He was born?

Certainly, the Blood has its efficacy across all divisions of history: past, present, furture. The OT reveals that the prophets believed in the coming of the Messiah - the LORD - He who brings "everlasting salvation" (Isaiah 45:17). You will find in the Bible, for example, that far back in the days of Job, there was a deep conviction that the Redeemer was to come to the earth!

Job 19:25-27

"25[/b]For I know that my [b]Redeemer liveth, and that

He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26[/b]And though after my skin worms destroy this body,

[b]yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold,

and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."

When Job said that "I know that my Redeemer liveth", he was clearly saying that the Redeemer existed before even the NT was written! So, your inference that "Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc[/i]" is utterly false. Even when Jesus spoke to the Jews, He clearly asserted: "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58).

As I have said several times, the one huge issue here that Muhammad missed in his "revelations" was redemption! Have you ever wondered why the Biblical prophets all spoke about redemption and the Redeemer, but Muhammad failed in every instance to discuss the subject? The OT prophets knew God as 'the Redeemer' who was to come to earth to redeem man; but Muhammad had no clue, even though he declared that Jesus is THE Messiah (Qur'an 3:45)!!

The Redeemer Himself is 'God' (and the saints will see Him - Job19:25-27); and upon this basic conviction, redemption would be offered to the entire world. Does that include even those who lived before Christ was born? Certainly so! HOW?

You remember that Job lived before Jesus was born. Yet, he said: "I know that my Redeemer liveth, . . after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God"! Let me explicate the three issues encapsulated in that statement:

(a) he recognized that the Redeemer is God (vs. 25)

(b) he testified of the resurrection when he would see God (vs. 26)

(c) he prophesied that his eyes shall see God (vs. 26b-27)

Using this reference as an example among others, let me share with you why the Incarnation (Jesus becoming Man, John 1:14) is the one thing that made the Blood possible for our redemption.

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I am not asking if anyone that died now, I am asking of those that died before Jesus came, What are their stands? They do not believe Trinity,

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To prove biblically that ALL will be judged

"Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades [the grave] delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works" (Revelation 20:11-13).

Note that there are many detailed teachings on this.

There is a period of 1000 years where the saints will reign in Christ and the dead without Christ are given an opportunity to hear the gospel and accept him.

God is a merciful God.

This is beyond the scope of this thread.

So @ the poster,the dead without Christ or without the law will be judged fairly.

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Is the answer to this simple question there please? All those that died before Jesus came were going to hell fire, True or False?

All the above verses has nothing to do with my simple Question "Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire?"

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@Kobojunkie,

Thank you dear bros. I know the verses that you referred to - and I do my best to avoid "profane and vain babblings" (1 Tim. 6:20). The wise thing to do, however, is not simply to become mute in the face of Islamic duplicity. First, we are responsible to offer answers to sincere enquirers (1 Pet. 3:15).

On the other hand, there is a balance because the Bible gives us wisdom to know how to proffer answers, so that while many people argue foolishly with dubious intents, it should not discourage Christians from continuing to share Biblical truths:

Eccl. 12:9

And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught

the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out,

and set in order many proverbs.

As the wise apostle said, let us not be weary in well doing, for in due season we shall reap if we faint not (Gal. 6:9).

Many blessings.

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@babs787,

How many have you "attempted"? After scooting off from your famed "lost" Torah and Injil, you never seize to amaze your folks on the Forum.

You who advise others to read the Bible obviously have not read it. What is the fate of David after all the things you mentioned there?

We are really "surprised", no be small. As if we no longer know about Muhammad's escapades with the women whose husbands he had murdered!

Lol. . . your appeal will only work when he is ready to be fooled.

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@dafidixone

Hope you know that you have not attempted the question at hand.

But your folks have been giving bible passages in which the fornicator, adulterer, murderer, liar would be doomed for hell. Go through your bible and read about what David did and come back to tell me his fate.

Brother, please try to grab the Quran and read about prophets, you would be surprised at the position they occupy in Islam unlike the bible where prophets are accused of adultery, fornication, sleeping with harlot, committing Inbreeding etc.

Brother accept Islam before its tool late.

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before Abraham was i am. abeg where was he? you guys have beautifully evaded the question. Just answer the damn question,

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what u see here my friends is called beautull evasion of question. You have all evaded the questions, answer the damn question,

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Why continue to FEED people who obviously do not care for what you have to say?? @Pilgrim1. What do you gain from telling those who could not care if you say A or B all this that you tell them?? There are verses in the same Bible that says you should avoid VAIN BABBLING and silly arguing @Pilgrim1 . Please do the wise thing!!!

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@fake pilgrim

Psalm 2:7, 11-12, and Proverbs 30:4, does not preach anything about Christianity there, people like you are using some sensual verses/phrases in the bible to refer to an unrelevant topic on discussion, Post it yourself, wat does the previous verse contain and wat d next verse also contain,

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Dear alhaji olabowale,

Please pick any version or translation of the Bible that best suits you and see if they do not contain the verses I quoted there.

You never cease to amaze me with your hypocrisy. If my statements were incorrect because I was quoting from a version or translation that did not have those verses, perhaps you could have a point. But you sit down and lazily assume that they are not correct because you're scared to your gutters to discover the simple truth.

Again, what version of the Torah and Injil did Muhammad pretend were "revealed" by his 'Allah'? Did those other Scriptures say any different from those that are in the Bible today? Where did Muhammad get his Arabian tales from that not a single Muslim has been able to coherently explicate for us to see? Rather than open your eyes and read issues, you sit back and assume that Muhammad's denials would cover up the huge fallacies pretended in the Qur'an.

The chap auwal87 asked some questions he supposed were the death knell of his worries - and I simply offered him answers from the Bible. If you're not satisfied, please produce the Biblical documents that Muhammad was pretending 'Allah' revealed, and let's see if they are different in the verses posted in my rejoinders.

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@Pilgrim.1: Which version, revision, editions, etc in all of the centuaries and up to the several hundreds that we have today, should I read? Will you show me the real Bible? Since there is none, I guess your statement is incorrect!

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@Kobojunkie

If God will answer my question, surely I will do ask him, but I dunno, maybe if you are more closer to God than I, then PLEASE, Ask Him, if He Answers you then let me know on Nairaland, PLEASE!

My Question Still remains unanswered, or are the Christians afraid of the question, or maybe the Pastors have never attemp to cite it in their church,

Are all those that died before Jesus going to Hell Fire?

If Yes!, then Christian God have no mercy on Innocent Human Beings, since Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc,

If No!, then you did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise (as Christians claim)

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@Dafidixone: To help you out of your Ostrich head in the sand syndrome: Before Abraham was born, by Allah, Who is Holder of my soul, I too, Olabowale was! My soul and all the souls of the children of Adam were already created, removed from the body of Adam (as).

Jesus, son of Mary, came very late, compared to when Abraham came. However, neither Jesus nor any man was before Adam. Read from Chapter 7 of the Qur'an (Suratul Ar'af), verse 172, with related verses from other chapters, on the subject of creation of the children of Adam. Our souls, Jesus and every person that will ever be created, were removed from the back of Adam, at the same time! Thats power, in itself. My beloved christain clergies, davidylan, being the chairman, your answers can not address this complex question. You do not have an answer of any tangible quality in the Bible about this subject. You are only providing us ambiguity at best.

Qur'an, in the explanation below, provides the answer to the question, the poster asked; Those who lived before Jesus, if they followed their respective prophet from God, in belief and worship and do as much good as possible, without associating partner(s) with God, yes, they will be admitted to Paradise. If they associated anything with God, being from the other camp, they will definately go to Hellfire! Jesus did not have any role to play here. His role is completely restricted to his time and the people he was charged which is to lead them the right path. His responsibility ended when Muhammad came on the stage of prophethood. Muhammad is the prophet of this current time, which starting from the time he received the first revelation, all the way to the end of time!

The Covenant taken from the Descendants of Adam.

Allah stated that He brought the descendants of Adam out of their fathers' loins, and they testified against themselves that Allah is their Lord and King and that there is no deity worthy of worship except Him. Allah created them on this Fitrah, or way, just as He said,

(So set you (O Muhammad) your face truly towards the religion, Hanifan. Allah's Fitrah with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalqillah.) [30:30] And it is recorded in the Two Sahihs from Abu Hurayrah who said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(Every child is born upon the Fitrah, it is only his parents who turn him into a Jew, a Christian or a Zoroastrian. Just as animals are born having full bodies, do you see any of them having a cutoff nose (when they are born)) . Muslim recorded that `Iyad bin `Himar said that the Messenger of Allah said

(Allah said, `I created My servants Hunafa' (monotheists), but the devils came to them and deviated them from their religion, prohibiting what I allowed.) There are Hadiths that mention that Allah took Adam's offspring from his loins and divided them into those on the right and those on the left. Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas bin Malik said that the Prophet said

(It will be said to a man from the people of the Fire on the Day of Resurrection, `If you owned all that is on the earth, would you pay it as ransom' He will reply, `Yes.' Allah will say, `I ordered you with what is less than that, when you were still in Adam's loins, that is, associate none with Me (in worship). You insisted that you associate with Me (in worship).') This was recorded in the Two Sahihs Commenting on this Ayah (7:172), At-Tirmidhi recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(When Allah created Adam, He wiped Adam's back and every person that He will create from him until the Day of Resurrection fell out from his back. Allah placed a glimmering light between the eyes of each one of them. Allah showed them to Adam and Adam asked, `O Lord! Who are they' Allah said, `These are your offspring.' Adam saw a man from among them whose light he liked. He asked, `O Lord! Who is this man' Allah said, `This is a man from the latter generations of your offspring. His name is Dawud.' Adam said, `O Lord! How many years would he live' Allah said, `Sixty years.' Adam said, `O Lord! I have forfeited forty years from my life for him.' When Adam's life came to an end, the angel of death came to him (to take his soul). Adam said, `I still have forty years from my life term, don't I' He said, `Have you not given it to your son Dawud' So Adam denied that and his offspring followed suit (denying Allah's covenant), Adam forgot and his offspring forgot, Adam made a mistake and his offspring made mistakes.) At-Tirmidhi said, "This Hadith is Hasan Sahih, and it was reported from various chains of narration through Abu Hurayrah from the Prophet ''. Al-Hakim also recorded it in his Mustadrak, and said; "Sahih according to the criteria of Muslim, and they did not record it.'' These and similar Hadiths testify that Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored, brought forth Adam's offspring from his loins and separated between the inhabitants of Paradise and those of the Fire. Allah then said,

(and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord'' They said: "Yes!'') Therefore, Allah made them testify with themselves by circumstance and words. Testimony is sometimes given in words, such as,

(They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves.'') [6:130] At other times, testimony is given by the people themselves, such as Allah's statement,

(It is not for the Mushrikin, (polytheists) to maintain the mosques of Allah, while they testify against their own selves of disbelief.) [9:17] This Ayah means that their disbelief testifies against them, not that they actually testify against themselves here. Another Ayah of this type is Allah's statement,

(And to that he bears witness (by his deeds). ) [100:7] The same is the case with asking, sometimes takes the form of words and sometimes a situation or circumstance. For instance, Allah said,

(And He gave you of all that you asked for.) [14:34] Allah said here,

(lest you should say), on the Day of Resurrection

(we were of this) of Tawhid

(unaware. Or lest you should say: "It was only our fathers aforetime who took others as partners in worship along with Allah,'') [7:172-173]

(175. And recite to them the story of him to whom We gave Our Ayat, but he threw them away; so Shaytan followed him up, and he became of those who went astray.) (176. And had We willed, We would surely have elevated him therewith, but he clung to the earth and followed his own vain desires. So his parable is the parable of a dog: if you drive him away, he pants, or if you leave him alone, he (still) pants. Such is the parable of the people who reject Our Ayat. So relate the stories, perhaps they may reflect.) (177. Evil is the parable of the people who rejected Our Ayat, and used to wrong themselves.)

(By the way my name is Olabowale, and not Adebowale!)

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alhaji, you're just stumbling from place to place leaving nothing but confusion and shame in your wake. You leave questions unanswered on other threads only to pop up somewhere else pretending to be seeking the truth.

Isnt it funny that someone you allege did not go willingly to the slaughter waited until He was hanging on the cross to cry out about being forsaken? Why didnt Christ and His disciples fight back or at least put up a better legal defence BEFORE the crucifiction if He was unwilling to die on the cross?

Christ knew He was going to be betrayed by Judas Iscariot during the last supper, why didnt He escape before then if indeed He was not willing to die on the cross?

Alhaji i know the death and resurrection is a hurdle islam can never cross . . .

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@Davidylan and all: And the lamb, did not go willingly to the slaughter! Contrary to what is being projected. He cried out, 'My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me!' Then, he gave up the ghost! If this is a willing and wholesale blanket of forgiveness, then its very strange, indeed. God could have easily forgiven everyone, without this grusome event!

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John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

They had the blood of bulls and goats every year. After Christ came, He made the sacrifice of the shedding of His blood ONCE FOR ALL.

Yes they didnt have the blood of Jesus, but they had the blood of animals as provided under the dispensation of the law.

I get frustrated by muslims who jump around trying to explain the bible when they dont even understand the quran. Go read and understand surah 17:91 first before bothering with whether the biblical prophets are in paradise or not.

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