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Christians Would You Repent?

If this world comes to an end and the entity to judge says he is Allah, and you are told you have a minute to apologise for not listening to prophet muhammad would you apologise as a christian?

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Jesoul

I must commend you so far, I like your tone and the way you see christianity and I am sure the world would be a better place with more of you.

From my tiny little scenario even man would know that the man spoke from his limited knowledge, granted his intention is not to deceive but what I am trying to get across is that his conscience is not a substitute for a perfect knowledge. That is where his being in a position that says his beliefs are only beliefs and may not really be a perfect knowledge becomes really useful, I believe I have mentioned this earlier.

I plead you to give me verses in the bible that says we will be judged according to what we know, about prayer I know that mountains statement was not literal, I was not being literal too that's why I followed up with a practical example too.

New testament and old testament has shown that God really lacks the moral compass we seem to carry as humans and if you read your bible carefully you will see that he usually assumes the nature and temperamen t of the prophet in charge, and this brings me to the last part of your post which is about you all believing in God, I think you should ask yourself if it is the same God you all believe in, personally I'd say you all believe in "a" God.

Great discussion anyways cheers.

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Jesoul,

Let me tackle this another way, and hopefully it will encompass the complains you laid.

First if you remember I already told you what I would do if it happens that I am wrong, so I and christians really do not see it the same way, while I am willing to entertain the idea that I am wrong christians are not.

Now about honesty, I think it would be easier if you looked at it this way, being honest boils down to how certain you are that something is right. You see my dear certainty can be defined as a belief beyond doubt to an individual and it means a perfect knowledge.

Within the tenets of Christianity it assumes the form of the first definition which is your position right now and that is why I said you were honest, but when you stretch it to include the second which coincidentally is the only basis where all belief systems can be judged to be a perfect knowledge.

Let me elaborate a bit further, someone living in a rural area may believe for instance that the earth is flat from all he has seen and he is certain of this, he would not be dishonest if he says it, you see this assumes the first definition, but he cannot use it as a basis to judge a man who lives on mountains and thinks the earth is slopy in nature! Why? because it violates the second definition, it is not a perfect knowledge, he is now being dishonest.

At this point you might ask what is a perfect knowledge, I like to call it a belief that is general and holds true for everyone regardless of race or religion.

Good examples are the various physical laws we have today and even as established and as universal as these laws are, if they are found wanting they scrapped.

So my dear your faith falls within the first category, if there is a shred of evidence that it includes the second please point it out, you faith cannot hold for a muslim or a even some christians at that, the bible says if you have faith and you say mountains should move they would move, that is not obtainable in the real world, if you really had faith like you were telling mazaje you would sit at home and pray when you are sick, is that what we find majority of christians doing today? No! You look for drugs, you turn to things you have real confidence in and not pseudo confidence, and confidence comes from evidence, evidence comes from proof of a PERFECT KNOWLEDGE that is what reigns supreme.

Here is a little brian teaser, there are 30000 sects in christianity and if someone belongs to one what is the probablity that the person is doing what is right as regards serving God,

(1/30000) = 0.0000333

Multiply by 100 and that gives you 0.0033%, do it the other way round and there is a 99% chance what you are doing even as a christian is wrong :-)

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Mazaje,

  I look at your above post and I understand you. Your reasoning is reasonable, your questions - they are valid, your concerns are not unfounded, your thinking is logical . . .

  you're missing just one thing in all your searching and reasearching - Faith.

I had remarked to you once that no christian can prove God to you because it is a matter of faith, not one of showing tangible evidence. It is by Faith we believe God to be true - not just a belief now - it is an unshakable confidence, because once you come to God, He reveals Himself to you in a real and personal way, and confirms His sovereignty over all.

   Now does Jesoul have all the answers? no. But I don't need to. why? because by faith I know God to be just and righteous and will deal with each one of us fairly. Whether I grew up Hindu or Atheist. Whether I died without ever hearing the name Jesus, God is still just and will deal with each person justly.

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Jesoul,

Your rock solid faith shows that you are honest with yourself, but that honesty applies only to how christians view the world and perceive it, not how it really is.

Your position becomes dishonest when you apply it outside christianity, because using the bible to judge a muslim is being dishonest too. I hope you can see what I am saying but lets not derail.

If you read the first lines I said your rock solid "faith" which is the operating word there, so I ask you Jesoul, what is faith?

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Jesoul,

Your rock solid faith shows that you are honest with yourself, but that honesty applies only to how christians view the world and perceive it, not how it really is.

Your position becomes dishonest when you apply it outside christianity, because using the bible to judge a muslim is being dishonest too. I hope you can see what I am saying but lets not derail.

If you read the first lines I said your rock solid "faith" which is the operating word there, so I ask you Jesoul, what is faith?

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Chris,

    I can say with every fibre of my being that I have never ever doubted the existence of God. Even as a child, it just made sense to me, in my heart.

    I can also honestly say that there are many things within the bible that I have struggled to understand and comprehend, but do I doubt that the bible is still the word of God? and that every word is still true? no sir I don't.

   And if you define my rock solid faith as being "dishonest with myself" then that'll be too bad. I just showed you that as a christian you're not afforded the false luxury of doubt, it just doesn't exist to us. The same bible teaches that a man who doubts, "a double minded man is unstable in all his ways, and he will not receive anything from God."

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@jesoul

This is why I always say christians are rarely honest with themselves, can you say with every fibre of your being that you have never ever doubted anything about christianity?

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Hebrews 13:8 - 'Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.'

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@Jesoul

How body?

Yes I am asking hypothetically, and I hope your saying it is impossible is just within the tenets of christian belief.

Let me be a bit more serious, my purpose of opening this thread is to show that we all lie to ourselves, beliefs are nothing but beliefs, that have no substantial or concrete evidence in reality. I believe for instance that christianity and organised religion are all warped and confused. But I asked myself if it happens that I am given the chance by God himself on rapture day I would most definitely apologise for being obstinate then proceed to ask my questions.

So I put it to you now, what will you do?

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Jesoul na wa for you oh, take am easy I did not say it will happen that's where you are getting it a wee bit twisted, what will you do if you find yourself on the moon? Nothing to be serious about.

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@mazaje

My brother I dey oh, na simple thing if Allah or if baba God show give chance me I go vex small first sha ask am why e keep us dey wait since then just ask for my 7 virgins sharp sharp. Lol

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Why are some christians getting worked up, if it happens what will you do?

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Suppose we wanted to test the power of God and prayer in order to verify or debunk related Christian claims. To begin the study, we gather a group of fifty atheists and a group of fifty Christians who volunteer to have an extremely lethal dose of bacteria injected intravenously. Following the injection, we provide the fifty atheists with a regimen of broad-spectrum antibiotics to counteract the infection. We then isolate the atheists in a secret location and tell no one that they are involved in the experiment. Essentially, they don’t exist to the rest of the world. Likewise, we isolate the Christians in a secret location but refuse them the antibiotic regimen.

News of the fifty Christians injected with the lethal bacteria will then be broadcast over the entire Christian world. The report will ask everyone to pray to God for their facilitated recovery from the infection so that deductive reasoning will force the world to acknowledge the one true religion because of the unquestionable and verifiable power of God and prayer. Because no one knows about the atheists in isolation, no one is specifically praying for them. All they have are antibiotics, while the Christians have the power of prayer from hundreds of millions of certain volunteers and the omnipotence of God. After two months, we will end the experiment and see which group has the most survivors.

Whether or not the public is willing to admit it, I think everyone knows which group would fare better in this study. No semi-rational Christian would ever sign up for this deadly experiment even with the added promise of a great monetary compensation for the survivors. They know that God isn’t really going to answer the divinely directed requests of hundreds of millions of Christians because God only seems to answer prayers in some mystical and unobservable fashion. Deep down, these Christians may even realize that they can’t consider prayer dependable. Thus, the failure to acquire volunteers who won’t receive antibiotics creates friction with what the typical Christian believes is absolute truth. The uneasy feeling felt throughout the body creates a drive within the mind to explain and/or separate from the logical contradiction.

As a way of irrationally explaining the lack of activity from God, a Christian would quickly assert that the almighty doesn’t like us putting him to a test. In addition, we would also hear that God wants us to believe in him based on faith, not what we determine from our own limited human understanding. As I mentioned previously, because of this proposed choice, God performs his miracles in superstitious ages or in scenarios disallowing falsifiable tests or independent observation. In other words, the power of God is there even though there’s no logical way to draw such a conclusion. This irrational explanation is a little too convenient for me. An enlightened person will realize that Christians receive answers for prayers just as often as atheists receive answers for problems. Sometimes prayers are “answered,” and sometimes they’re not; sometimes problems will have solutions, and sometimes they won’t.

It’s because of this suppressed “futileness-of-prayer” realization that I feel there is a subconscious mechanism trying to protect individuals from illogical thinking. In such a case, this hypothetical defense mechanism has simply been repressed from years of conditioning. Naturally, I don’t have the means to prove this hypothesis and wouldn’t expect any believer to accept it without the necessary support, but it makes perfect sense when you’ve been on both sides of the fence.

Matthew 21:22 and a few other biblical verses tell us that we will receive whatever we ask for in prayer. This statement is not taken out of context, and we can easily disprove a literal interpretation of Jesus’ proposal through objective testing. 2 Chronicles 16:12 condemns Asa for consulting physicians with his health problem rather than seeking God’s help. As you can see, the Bible is unambiguous on its demand for prayer over medicine, yet common sense and observation tell us how deadly a combination of prayer and medical rejection can be. . . . . .

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Suppose the world witnesses the descent of a great entity from the sky. This being proclaims that its name is God the creator of the earth and the time for the world to end has finally arrived. Needless to say, most people are going to want to see proof of its claims. Whatever miracles one requests of the decended God, he is happy to oblige. He has the power to make mountains rise and fall at will. He can set the oceans ablaze at the snap of a finger. He can even return life to those who died thousands of years ago. God can do anything asked of him by anybody. Then, someone from the gathered crowd makes an inquiry as to which religion holds the absolute truth. God replies, “The religion of truth is Islam. The Qur’an is my one and only holy word. All other religious texts, including the Bible, are entirely blasphemous. All those who don’t acknowledge the koran as my word will undergo a lengthy punishment for not following my teachings. Now is your chance to repent or else you will suffer eternaly in hell for ever.”

What choice do the Christian community make in this situation? This deity has already demonstrated that it possesses the omnipotence and omniscience of a supreme being. Do Christians readily switch over to the side of observable and testable evidence, or do they declare that this being is the Devil tempting their faith in God? Think about it for a minute because it’s an interesting predicament. I believe we all know that a good portion of Christians would denounce this new being in order to please “the one true God, Heavenly Father of Jesus.” As a result of their collective decision, the supernatural entity forces them to undergo unimaginable torment for a few weeks before offering them a final chance to repent. Do the Christians embrace the teachings of this creature after experiencing its capabilities firsthand, or do they still consider it the final test and refuse to denounce their faith in the Bible?

What exactly is the meaning of this example? No matter what level of sophisticated evidence contrary to their beliefs might be provided, some Christians will always find a way to set aside reasoned thought in favor of what they have always been thoroughly conditioned to believe. If Christians won’t accept the answers of such a powerful creature, how would they ever have the capacity to make informed and impartial choices based on evidence presented by their peers?

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Okija,

     you want God to make an extraodinarily grand entrance and leave undeniable proof of His existence? . . . well He already did that.

He appeared to the Isrealites and they were so astounded and terrified they begged Him to speak through Moses next time. And what did the Isrealites do after they saw this 'undeniable' proof of God's existence? . . . they went right back into sinning.

  The problem has never been that man needs 'proof' of God, it is that man in spite of proof still refuses to accept God - because of our sinful nature. You're asking amiss if you expect God to bend to YOUR request like He was some weakling that needed human approval. God does not work like that! He does not think or reason like we puny humans do.

  and the sad thing is even if God did an undeniable miracle for all to witness today, 'scientists' will still find a way to question it, doubt it, spin it, come up with theories attempting to explain it and then when they cannot find an explanation for it, they simply call it a 'mystery' and shove it under the folder of "unexplained/to-be explained events". . . the futility of our human thinking.

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JeSoul

How does it make sense that God is not in the business of proving himself yet he has set up a business that he expects me to invest in. If only God would come out of hiding and simply walk through the earth or do something extraodinarily exceptional then we would not be going through all this religious maze.

Your christian God will not prove himself yet he wants you to beleive in him, The Muslim God wouldnt either yet people have strapped on vests and blown up people and building based on the words attributed to him in the Quoran.

If he cant answer a simple prayer, or talk in an audible voice or even appear and do a magic trick, then how do you expect me to beleive?? Its crazy thats what I call it.

Lets look at it objectively. Jesus apparently was supposed to have come from heaven, yet he was born like a simple man. Okay, I know the whole he was made man speech, but wouldnt it have been easier if he had come out of the clouds and floated down to earth for everyone to see?? Even when he ascended, he did it codedly and there is no other recorded account of any such sightings by anyone other than his disciples. That sounds like propaganda to me. He had no problems walking on water, changing water to wine, flying back to heaven, e.t.c, so why cant he just appear to everyone and get this whole darn mistery over with.

Except we are reading two different versions of the bible then I am yet to see how he has proven anything. Infact the bible has only succeeded in leaving more doubts than proofs of his existence.

His answer will be that they are sinners.

Lets go back to the church as it is today. I am yet to see an amputee grow new limbs, or a hungry christian fed by Ravens.

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God has answered the prayers of millions. Tell that to the millions starving in Darfur

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Its impossible for God to answer the insincere prayer of a sinner whose heart is full of unbelief in the first place.

Genuine repentance, a heart that is receptive to Christ and a willingness to surrender your will and choices to him in sincerity is what is required of you. It takes 2 to tango bro.

God has answered the prayers of millions . . . perhaps you need to check urself. The fact that your neighbour refuses to pay your school fees because he is rightly not your father does not mean he doesnt exist no?

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YOUR definition of 'how' God can prove Himself to you and that is a common misconception among many people - "that since God doesn't answer MY prayers then He must not exist" - God is not in the business of 'proving' Himself to anyone.

 

 The gospel was never meant to be "proven" but to be simply believed. Pick up the bible and look around the world and see how God has already chosen to 'prove' Himself to man.

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Chris there is hardly any true christian that thinks they are accountable to Muhammed/Allah, same thing with muslims.

So these kinds of threads are rather pointless, IMO.

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