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Did God Know That Adam And Eve Would Sin Before Creating Them?

Its popular believe that God knows everything and he foresees the future. Still, would it be wise to think he foresaw Adam and Eve's future and allowed it knowing it would affect you and I today?

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All this post has once again proven xtianity as a religion with unknowlegable gods, man worshippers and ignorant folowers

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@ nopuqeater - I think the Bible refrences sited by Tonye-T has helped you a lot. You can read it again here.

- Col 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

I think you have to meditate also on this verse so as to have a better understand as regards the plan of God Almighty.

- 2 Cor 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

@ Tonye-t . God bless you , thanks for not arguing but teaching, For Real "WISDOM IS THE PRINCIPAL THING"

Weather you believe it or not JESUS IS COMING SOON.

God Bless Us All.

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Friens, I guess I am shot of words. Its likely we are accusing God of what we is not and what he doesnt do. I still wish to know if anyone had ever read any part of the scriptures where God indicated he loves Sins. I wish to see where God declares that he made Satan to tempt people to perfection.

We we are saying here looks like God employed the devil for the outworking of his purposes. Is it really right? Then the devil should have a compensation. If it is also true that God did not originate Sin, how would his masterplan come to work out if there was no way Adam and Eve would sin. I cease to believe that all these bad match God's masterplan.

God's Original Plan is that everything He made having been declared Fine and Good, would stay in a United family of God's creation in Paradise. God's masterplan for the earth include that having been originally made a paradise, would return a paradise and would remain a paradise. For the out working of that plan, Sin would be removed on earth as the wicked would also. The heaven remains for the spiritual sons of God. Know that the Angels including Jesus Christ are servants and messangers. Nevertheless, Jesus was made to be above others as the Chief of the angels. Well, we are not going to that one here because I like the way this thread is going.

Please I want anyone who can to prove that God's masterplan includes playing with sins and righting the wrongs already created.

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What you just stated makes no sense whatsoever. God is not an author of sin, yet, he engineers everything with foreknowledge of the effects of his engineering? You are tying yourself in knots, as usual.

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“God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established”

(http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/index.html?body=/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ch_III.html)

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I know what you're trying to get at - incessant argument but i pray it should be constructive such as others could learn ok!?

Deducible from your question would mean:

- You dont believe Jesus was God in the flesh, else He wont have call upon another God.

My tool for validation is John.1:1-2 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

The above verses made it very clear of the existence of a God who dwelt with God, yet was God himself. Now for God's original plan of salvation to be fulfilled it will mean He comes down and identify himself as Man and this He did in Humility even though He had the power to take up the fashion of a God

Phil 2:6-8

6 Who, being in the very nature God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

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There were times in his 3 yrs sojourn He would want to have exhibited His God-image but the low-knowledge and blindfoldness of the people as well as his humility would restrain him to ( Matt.3:17). When Jesus cried to a God on the cross for forsaking Him, he did that because He had submitted his celestial glory for a servant's and thus was nothing but powerless and became obedient(def.submissive of another's will) unto death.

Now when he resurrected, He could have his glory and honour back as it was before his coming

- John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him(God) known.

- Rom 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

- 2 Cor 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

- Col 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

There is a big difference between the Jesus in the flesh and the glory of the ressurrected Christ (one personality - two forms). cheers

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@Tonye-t: « #27 on: Today at 03:21:06 PM »

Choose which Jesus that pleases you. What you will find is a one that is not God. Read your own post. Was he omnipotent, etc?

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@Jenwitemi: « #2 on: June 06, 2010, 05:11 AM »  

 

@ePAYSYSTEM (m): « #3 on: June 06, 2010, 10:39 PM »  

www.quran.com, is one website you can go. There are many more do your research and see that God is different from gods. The gods lack knowledge. God knows everything, that is Allah the Almighty.

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@ nopuqeater,

Which of my Jesus exactly, is it the Jesus in the flesh or the Christ after ressurection? pls explain

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@ePAYSYSTEM: « on: June 05, 2010, 12:50 PM »

Or the Bible writers are liars against God, for making Him so weak and incomplete in knowledge, probably the reason they kinda make Him look in His OT knowledge of the hindsight thing after the action of man, leaving His knowledge the same as that of Jesus in NT who declared that he cant do everything, and lacking the knowledge of the future in the end of time issue. Is either of the Gods worthy of worship, one regretting the other not knowing the future and unable to do all things? If you combine them together, you will still have a combined Gods that regret, unable to do all things and lacking knowledge of the future. Both are lacking future knowledge[s].

I cant worship anything ike that. There is One that has ability to do all things, know all things and not deficient in anything. That One is Worthy of Worship because He is the Creator.

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@Tonye-t: Your post above negates Jesus to be God, since he lacked some knowledge of the future and unable to do all things. So why worship what is unable to do all things and lacks some knowledge of the future?

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I'll liken God's foreknowledge in this matter to that of a doctor of a pregnant woman. I'm not declaring it as absolute truth please.

It's like the doctor can see the womb of the pregnant woman, and he says you'll have twins, male and female, and even he can give the date of delivery. This doctor has foreknowledge alright, but couldn't have until the woman got pregnant. And what He's seen and declared can be adjusted by the woman to an extent. Like she could have a miscarriage, or go into early labour, or die. Just a thought sha, hope it helps.

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isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, ,

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NL now discusses God?

na wao!

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It sounds some how to call God unquestionable.

The Bible at least has records of people who questioned God and got answers

David, Hezekiah, HABAKKUK, Job, Moses, etc. God even envited the people of isreal for reasoning together.

God is not like man to weilds authority without allowing for discussions.

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Is UNQUESTIONABLE GOD,

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With due respect to all who have made comments, I wish to know why God will allow a scenario like this

For man to get saved, Jesus had to die. It pained God that His only begothen son would die yet he allowed it because God so love the world. You can imagine what it took God to deliver mankind.

But in another vein, Judas Iscariot was condemned for being a gateway through which God fulfills his will.

So may we know whether God created Judas for that purpose if so why would Jesus call him the son of distruction and say he comes from the devil?

Is it not proper to believe that Judas only used his free moral agency wrongly just as most of us today do? should we hold God responsible for allowing us not to be robots that are controlled by certain written codes?

God has given us the power of choice just as he did the people of isreal by telling them to choose life in order that they may live or death by doing the good or the bad respectively. That is also our case today. If any Isrealite like Achan chose to do wrong he died. So his death was not pre-destined by God

Same way, Adam and Eves sins were never predestined by God who spent the life of his precious son to redeem what was lost. What would God gain making something bad and at the same time losing to make it right? Remember, nothing was at stake if God had not allowed Adam and Eve the choice to live or die. So it was their choice that they sin and not God's

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Ps 115:16The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, But the earth He has given to the sons of men.

Ps 8:

4What is man that You take thought of him,

And the son of man that You care for him?

5Yet You have made him a little lower than God,

And You crown him with glory and majesty!

6You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;

You have put all things under his feet,

7All sheep and oxen,

And also the beasts of the field,

8The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea,

Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

Genesis1:27So God created man in his own image,

in the image of God he created him;

male and female he created them.

28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Eph 4:1Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,

IThe 1:11To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power,

Romans 11:29[b]for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable[/b]. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

33Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

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I expected you to have spoken with more reverence, afterall, He,   ,  ''doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? '' (Daniel 4:35 ).

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God is righteous . even Jesus asked to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness. God respects ordinances that he ordained. God does not break his rules. what will be the value of delegating authority and holding someone accountable for his action when u are always interfering and disrupting and taking over things. God will not take over the running of the earth. he will only assist Man cos he has given him sovereignty over earth matters but man is accountable to him cos man cannot be greater than God.  if u want God to intervene directly then u has to set aside and dissolve the authority structure he set up. God hasn't done that yet. and i must say that in God's eyes he didn't make a mistake by delegating authority everything he did was Good . their is nothing wrong with it . the thing that is wrong is man. so fellow theist have no fear. or should i ask instead what are u afraid of. u don't need to bend rules or break then to have the upper hand. God in his wisdom knows how to do his thing so stop trying to teach him what to do. he can defend himself he is not in danger of non-theist

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As a fellow theist, I say, ''mind your language''.

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joagbaje

for the first time you gave a clear cut bible reply to a post. Not the twisted version Oyakhilome brain washes you with. God bless you. And let me add that we cannot know everything about God. Thats another reason why people should live for Christ and make heaven. Some of this questions we seem not to have a clear answer to here on earth, we will ask Jesus when we get to heaven and He will give us a perfect answer. A song writer said- "we will understand it better by and by" when we all get to heaven. I LOVE JESUS.

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some of you people have such convoluted views one wonders if it would take 40+ years before you got any understanding, if at all.

eg

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God respects delegated authority. God has no right to intervene in something he has delegated to man. when there was trouble in heaven God did not wait for man or seek man's permission to intervene. The problem of this world is man's responsibility. not God. it is this responsibility God has given to his creatures that they will stand trial for/giver account of their stewardship on the last day. God naturally wouldn't have wanted his son to suffer like that put he has already given the power of Choice/responsibility in man's hand(Christ's hands) God has no problem with that cos man has no power to cause damages that is irredeemable by God himself. man suffers the consequence of his own actions. if u feel that the sin of Adam should be prevented first prove to God that if you were in adam's shoes you would have done better and not worse. how are you going to do that. by living a holy life in this already corrupt world. if u can do that, then u certainly can live a holy life in an uncorrupted/innocent world.

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while you guys at it, especially nuclearboy, if Jesus was God, did he know that he was going to die? What then did he prepare for the earth, in order that things remain normal in his death? How did he control the the earth from death? Show us in the statement of Jesus. verses and chapter and books.

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I agree with you, but not completely. The foreknowledge of God is one of the revealed things and if it is questioned, as in the original post, we should not fail to uphold it, whatever deductions men choose to make from it.

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^^^ First time (to me): BRILLIANT ANSWER. You don start to read Bible O

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Questions like these should be avoided. If God chose to relate to us wearing agbada, we should not be asking if he wears pant or how he looks if the agbada is off.So if God relates to us as though he didn't have fore knowledge of their fall , we should not be probing into such.

Deuteronomy 29:29

29 The secret[ things belong] unto the our God: but those[ things which are] revealed[ belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that[ we] may do all the words of this law.

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To be candid I wonder why God in the Bible would say he regreted to have made man. The Bible also said that it pained God so much that the calamity of man became too much. If God Foreknows what will happen that way, why would he create man (Sodom and Gomorah) only to destroy them after a short period of time? Why would he create some to be thieves and some to appear innocent? why would the same mother born the good, the bad and the urgly and still read the Bible to all of them for a change? Why would there be a need for Jesus to die in the first place?

I feel God would be very wicked for deliberately making Nigeria to be a rubish heap. The meaning is that we ought not do nothing because they are all God's will to be so.

I think the doctrine of God knowing just everything should really be reconsidered.

My position is that God know anything he wishes to know. Most times, he forgoes certain knowledge at a point in time. I guess God hates wickedness, so why should he have created it? Why should he have made the devil in the first place.

There are a million and one questions not God but we need to consider before we conclude that knows or at least cares to knwo everything or not.

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If he had the foreknowledge of what will happen, why then did he flip his lid and cursed everything in existence? What was the drama all about, then? From my own limited earthly knowledge, if a person has a foreknowledge of something and that something comes to pass as expected, that person undergoes very little to no emotional reactions because of the foreknowledge. Most of us are quite familiar with such instances.

If the bible god was really omniscient, then he is not supposed to react emotionally, positively or negatively, to anything that happens since he already knows the outcome. Lack of foreknowledge, surprise and shock caused by ignorance of what is to happen causes emotional reactions. So as you all can see,the garden of Eden drama tory get K-leg to say the least, unless the story is meant to be an allegory of a spiritual message that is not yet incorporated into the christian/islamic religious doctrines.

Or perhaps the bible god was just playacting and was just having himself some roaring fun pretending to be upset. Divine boredom?

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God knew they would sin before creating them. It would not be wise to think or teach otherwise for the simple reason that :

1. we would be teaching falsehood-doctrinally stripping God of His foreknowledge,

2.greater and real inconsistencies would arise that would be nothing compared to the seeming inconsistency we would be trying to avoid.

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