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Did God Need Faith To Create The World?

I came across this entry of March 4, 2010 in Rhapsody of Realities.

My questions are:

1. Do these scriptures support the view that God operates by faith?

2. Is faith then a force that we can tap into for results, just as God does?

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25 answers

I like this short piece: Faith of God?

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@noetic: hmm! Its a mirage.

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@Image123

You are still not answering my question. Why is it so difficult? Again:

Mark 2:5 And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."

Did Jesus forgive the paralytic by his (Jesus') faith?

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Aletheia

What's with Mark 2:5? Are you implying that Jesus only healed/worked when He saw others' faith? What's your point?

Also have you read the 2Peter text you quoted? He says when we were with him on the holy mount. I think/believe/maintain that he's refering to the Matthew17v5 incidence.

Prior to Matthew 3v17, I see that Jesus had fulfilled righteousness which is by faith, for whatever is not of faith is sin(matthew 3v15).

Hebrew 11v6 is the Word of God. It can't be subject to our manmade boundaries. It say without faith it is IMPOSSIble to please Him. The whole Bible is God's Word, not man or woman centred. On your premise, one can further say without faith it is impossible for man to please God, not woman. There's no she in the verse, no? 'For he that cometh to God must believe', not she right?

The scripture cannot be broken, stop trying to break it.

Sorry I don't know anakin skywalker. What do you know to be the meaning of trust btw?

@enigma

Take it up and then down, that God uses faith and man uses faith doesn't equate God and man.

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@Aletheia: Please don't mind Deep Sight, he just wants to get you talking. I took out a lot of time some months ago to explain Psalm 22 with respect to the crucifixion to him, and he confessed that he was satisfied since he had never seen it that way before. I think JeSoul may remember, she was on the thread or so, I cant recall.

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Mark 2:5  And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."

Did Jesus forgive the paralytic by his (Jesus') faith?

You are being disingenuous. Who are those referred to in Hebrews 11? Is it not men and women like you and I, sons and daughters of Adam as to their physical descent? In Matt 3:17, what had Jesus done that you would regard as an act of faith that brought forth approbation from heaven? Was that not prior to the onset of his ministry? As to Matt 3:17, what is Peter's commentary on that incident:

Where does Genesis 18:19 and Numbers 12:7 say that God trusted Abraham and Moses?

Faith is reliance, belief, conviction of truth. The whole point of the Christian faith is that of reliance on Jesus Christ, belief that He is Who He is: to wit the Son of God, being convinced of that truth. That is the faith that can move mountains, not some sort of force like Anakin Skywalker uses.[quote][/quote]

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@OP

I think u are mixing the message with the messenger. True CE are used to heresy. . . . .but there is an element of TRUTH in their argument.

1. There is something called the "faith of God". Paul describes it as the faith that speaks the things which be not as though they were.

The faith of God is uniquely uncommon that it only speaks things that have no precedence.

a. When God said let the sun rule by day and the moon rule by night. . . .these event had no precedent. nothing had ever ruled by day or night. but for thousands of years after that statement was made . . . the sun and moon still rule.

b. God told two Unclad adults in a garden to "be fruitful and multiply" . . . , billions of people are today the descendants of these two adults.

c. God told an aged Abraham and Sarah that they would have a son. . . .defying the tradition of old age, they did have a son.

2. while Faith is defined as the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. It is as such important that our faith must have a subject. If God has faith. . . .who does He have faith in?

Isaiah 55:11

so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it

Isaiah 48:3

3 I foretold the former things long ago,

my mouth announced them and I made them known;

then suddenly I acted, and they came to pass

God's faith is expressed and established in Himself. God prophecies on to the things He would do in the future . . .and also brings them to pass. God has a unique faith . . . .God does not necessarily hope but He foretells the things He would do (faith) and brings them to pass (by power).

3. Jesus said that if we have the faith of a mustard seed we would ask that a mountain moves and it will. This is however not a license to ask for anything. And also that statement connotes that the mustard seed faith is perhaps the least measure of faith.

My submission is that while Christians are to grow to live by faith as Abraham and the faith-fathers did . . . . .submitting to the will of God like Jesus did is a far better deal, . . . .but u first need to learn how to trust God.

4. There is a huge difference btw faith and trust. Jesus IMO taught us how to trust God and not how to have faith.

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What's the matter with you? I made a general post based on the OP without even reading your post, man! I suppose my point affects you because you subscribe to the same nonsense as Oyakhilome/Copeland/Hagin. Well, that is not my problem.

Going back to Oyaks - he says:

Is that not equating man with the WoF god?

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@aletheia

On this same page/thread, I said that I think, someone replied that I shouldn't think. Now I said that I believe, and then you call it an assertion. very well then.

Still I'll maintain that Jesus used faith. I didn't quote Mark 2:5 why bring that up?

Hebrews 11v6 says without faith it is impossible to please God. Aletheia revised version says without faith it is impossible for men and women to please God. I salute o! Are you of the wou(Word of Unbelief) movement?

Matthew 3v17 says This is my beloved Son, in whom I am WELL PLEASED.

Hebrews 11v6 says WITHOUT FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him. It takes more unbelief than faith to contradict those scriptures. Have you not read that the scriptures cannot be broken? Jesus cannot please God without faith.

Now I said God trusts/has faith in His children, I didn't say God trusts the sons of Adam. Is some mischievous demon changing my posts on your computer screens? God trusted Abraham e.g Genesis 18v19. God trusted Moses e.g Numbers 12v7. Faith is reliance, belief, conviction of truth. You just quoted that from Strong and Thayer. What more can I say.

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@Nuclearboy

Settle down and look before you leap. I don't get what you're on about, affirming things I never thought not to speak of type about. Jesus was holy and NEVER sinned. Breaking news. I never disputed that.

Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Faith IS NOT 'things not yet seen'. Get a grip. I believe have read more composed posts from you. I'm aware the wof movement have not being kind to you, but don't take it out on the innocent please.

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If you followed my talk with JeSoul, you'll have noticed that we're saying somethings about Hebrews 11v3 of which I told her that I'll not say much on that verse, then I 're.told' her to spare/permit me from making further comments on the said verse. That's what I meant by spare me the commentaries, not some assumed phobia for strong's dictionary and co.

@Enigma

On equating man with God, I'm yet to do that. Look before you leap. Saying God has faith and man has faith doesn't on compulsion equate man with God. There are attributes which God has which man should have, it's called godliness. e.g God has love, His children should have love. This doesn't make them equal.

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^^^ The man, Jesus from Nazareth, born circa 2010 years ago in Bethlehem, occupation Carpentry and Spiritual Teacher -

- - - - never sinned? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Kai, it will take a long time - perhaps many lifetimes for some of you folks to recognise the extent to which you have been deceived.

What's amazing is that you buy the whole gist.

Amazing!

What makes you guys different from ancestor-worshippers? ? ?

How are you better than the WoF guys since you too equate a man with God? ? ?

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You do not commit an equal heresy when you equate a carpenter from Nazareth with God?

Double-speak.

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@Image123

There are several loopholes in your post. Let's see. . .

Did Jesus forgive the paralytic by his (Jesus') faith?

Perhaps if Jesus was solely a man like you and I but looking at the scripture in context:

So as you will see from chapter 11 of Hebrews, it talks about men and women pleasing God. See also:

Lets break down your syllogism into its component propositions.

1. Jesus walked by faith.

2. Jesus is God.

3. Therefore God has faith.

Since you and I agree that Jesus is God, your argument stands or falls on the premise that Jesus walked by faith. You have not proven that from the bible yet!

God has faith in the sons of Adam? Really, how about this here:

Now you are playing the game of redefining the meaning of words. What is the meaning of the word translated faith?

Strong's

Thayer's

No wonder you were so quick to declaim that you be spared commentaries: what a cop out.

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"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

- Does not sound like a statement of faith.

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Wow, where do I start, i didn't ask for a barrage of attacks. Well, lets see how much I can reply, I'm on a phone. But I believe Jesus used faith. The fact that God was well pleased with Him suggests that, because without faith it is impossible to please God. And if Jesus walked by faith, He is God. God has faith. I didn't say God hoped in Hebrews 11. Faith is the substance of hope, not hope. I'll rather relate faith with trust than with hope. Most definitely, God trusts. He trusts His children.in other words He has faith in them. Jesus had faith in to commit His spirit to God at calvary.

Hebrews 11v3 could apply both ways,but like I said, pls spare me the commentaries at least for now.

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I am sorry sir, but i cannot see how this is different from you equating your Jewish Rabbi to Almighty God.

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Lol!A creator needs to have faith in HIM/HER/ITSELF and the possessed creative abilities to be able to create anything, and that includes GOD.This one is not rocket science.

Coming to the level of us humans, any individual that possesses high creative capabilities but lacks any faith in himself or herself and is always looking for some external figure to do the creational acts for him or her is not going to do much creating of anything.

Since GOD is the alpha and the omega - meaning that it is the only thing in existence,meaning that it is all alone - it is forced to have faith in itself to carry out the creational acts.

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Faith is a high-power jet pack used to leap over spiritual obstacles and their physical manifestations, subject to God's pre-approval. God does not need faith to overcome obstacles, neither is He limited by any pre-requisite approval.

@Aletheia: I beg to disagree. I believe "in hope that" in that verse can be effectively rendered "to the end that". i.e. "so that".

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I can think of a verse that on face value seems to suggest that.

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Image, thanks for your reponse.

us, human beings - not God.

Insinuating that He has ever had the need to have faith is to suggest that He is deficient and lacking in absolute authority to carry out any action at any time as He wishes  - that He[b] depends [/b] on faith (in who or what is another question) to accomplish His purpose?

  God puts His faith in what Image? in who? on what does God depend on? or is He simply God?

  And if there is no one greater, how can He have faith in Himself? that's an oxymoron. Why would He need to have faith in Himself? Don't you see the gross contradiction?

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JeSoul

I'll not go into that verse, but at least we'll agree that faith is the evidence of things not seen, substance of things hoped for. I believe God demonstrates and demonstrated this things. The evidence of things not seen, He manifested it calling those things that are not as though they are. I think that is faith. Jesus demonstrated faith and expects us to do same. Well?

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Sometimes, i wonder where the people get all these ideas from.

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Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

  It is saying, we have no proof God created the universe, but by Faith we understand and believe that it was created by God. Furthermore, it says "created at God's[b] command[/b]" - not created "by God's faith".

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I don't think there's anything wrong with the scriptures quoted. Hebrews 11v3 says God created the world through faith. The passages quoted above also imply the same. I don't think we should say it is wrong simply because so and so is the one saying it.

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