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Did Jesus For Our Sin? Which Sin? (no, Bring Your Proof If You R Truthful)

DID JESUS DIE FOR OUR SIN?

WAS MAN BORN A SINNER?

Salam to my muslim brothers and sisters . May Almighty Allah continue to guide us in Islam as we spread the true message and the truth which is Islam and may HE never put any burden that will be too much for our faith.

While islam preach and propagate the sinlessness of man from birth, and attributing sin to whoever has done it alone, the religion of Christianity condemn all mankind as sinners-a perpetual sinners indeed who must inherit the original sin.

The muslim’s Holy Quran records only the doing of sin to the doer of sin in:

Quran 74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed

Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.

Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

On the other hand, the bible came with the notion of original sin that “Jesus has redeemed the world by sacrificing his life to cancel the sin of mankind” that, that original sin was the sin inherited from Adam and Eve through birth!

The bible says concerning the inherited sinfulness of man as follows:

Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

The sinfulness of man is thus made manifested in these verses and some unmentioned one. This doctrine is not accidental. The sinfulness of man, according to the bible, is that man is a perpetual sinner, born into sin, reared and nurtured as a sinner because in

Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

It therefore implies that, as long as man continue to be someone born of a woman, he cannot be clean! Even if he does all kind of righteous deeds until his death, he will remain unclean. This will also be applicable even if he accepted Jesus as his saviour! Why? Cos he would remain someone born of a woman and even though he became born again! The reason is not far-fetched, the bible says in:

Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This inherited sinfulness of man was nurtured from the idea that Adam’s sin was later inherited by all men in:

Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.

The doctrine of man’s inherited sinfulness can be said, without slightest doubt, a doctrine never preached by the earlier biblical prophet but an idea of some later biblical characters (eg Paul). They at the same time, contradicted themselves on what they have raised somewhere else in the same bible. The two following quotations will easily disprove that, men are sinners or that man inherited sin from his parent.

Ezekiel 18v20: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteous shall be upon himself. OR

Romans 14v12: so then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

It therefore implies that the idea “none is righteous no, not one (Roman 3v9-12) is a fabrication, a Unclad fantastic lies, that is propagated with ignorance and fantasy. The following passages shows that some people are righteous and never born with any inheritable sin.

Mark 6v20: herod feared John knowing that he was a righteous and holy man.

Daniel 6v4: Daniel was faithful, no error or fault was found on him.

Luke 1v16: Zechariah and his wife were both righteous.

1st Samuel 12v3-5: Samuel never oppressed…he is free from all faults.

Mathew 1v19: Joseph was a just man

Luke 2v25: simeon was devout and righteous one etc

If we hold the word “how then can men be righteous before God? How can one who is born of a woman be clean (job 25v4) etc, to be true, then the passage will create more problem, cos one Jesus is born from a woman, then Jesus could not be clean either judging from that assertion.

Two, if Jesus is born by a woman, then he would be said to have inherited the original sin from his mother.

Three, if the word “ all have sinned” be taken to its full length, Jesus would be included among the “all” cos he is born of a woman.

However, in all manner of consideration, if the original sin is inherited and children are born into sin, Jesus would not have awarded “innocence” and “pure” state to them, neither would he have said in,

Mathew 18v3: and said, verily I say unto you, except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdon of heaven. OR

Mark 10v15: verily I say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter heaven.

If all of us are born sinner because of Adam’s sin, then it portrayed God as one inflicting the punishment of a criminal to one who is not. This is equal to injustice. But our God is not unjust as in

Deuteronomy 24v16: the father shall not be put to death for the children, neither the children be put to death for the father’s, every man shall be put to death for his own sin. OR

1st Corinthians 3v8: how he that planted and he that watered are one, and every man shall receive his own reward according to his labour.

However, this doctrine of Blood Atonement created by the church, three to four centuries after Jesus left the earth contradicts the bible as in the above passages.

NOW CHRISTIANS ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. Can a man allow himself to face firing squad for a sin he has never committed?

3. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action

psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.

4. By raising the notion that men are born sinners, Christianity as a religion has made mockery of God’s love, forgiving capacity, forbearance in accepting our repentance and all out-let for the redemption of mankind through his mercy.

5. If men are born sinners, the coming of Jesus at the end of the world to die for the sins of men is equally stupefying.

6. If we could think over this statement very well, one could ask the protagonist of this doctrine, which kind of God is that who, cos of a sin of two people, decided to condemn the entire humanity for the sin they never participated in nor knowing anything about?

7. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?

It is either we accept this original sin as truth and agreed that bible is telling lie or agree with us that none inherited any sins so that bible would be free from fault.

PROOF OF THIS ASSERTION

Some of those that wrote the bible made us conclude on the notion that Christ actually died for the sin of mankind. The few quotation that they base their arguments and proof on are listed below:

1st John 4v10, 1st john 1v7, john 1v29, roman 5v8, 1st peter 3v18 etc.

all the chapters and verses above came from the bible writers and we cannot conclude on wht the writer wrote alone cos jesus said in

Mathew 10v24: the disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

The Christian protagonist says “ jesus died for our sins” but we ask, which sin? He replied , “Adam and Eve committed a mortal sin, and God’s anger was kindled agains them. And unless, Jesus should die for that sin by his own blood sacrifice on the cross, the sin cannot be forgiven!

Now consider the word carefully< somebody who is just is made to die for the unjust. What kind of injustice is that? One would start to ask. Supposing it is true that jesus die for the sin of mankind,

1. Why did God not send him immediately after the sin of Adam was committed?

2. for what purpose did he intend to delay the crucifixion till some thousand years after the event?

3. however, if jesus actually came to die for our sins and that salvation only lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preach repentance in Mathew 4v17: repent for the kingdom of God is at hand?

4. if all person are under the stain of original sin as the Christian protagonist asserts, children are exempted by jesus because they are pure and inherited nothing as in Mathew 18v3-6; verily I say unto you, except ye be converted as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of God……, also in mark 10v14-15: ………. Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God

if any one born of a woman cannot be clean (job 15v4) and that “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (roman 3v27) or that “none is righteous” (roman 3v10), but if jesus was born by mary and if Adam was not deceived but the woman was deceived and became transgressor (1st timothy 2v14) then mary would be said to be unclean, unrighteous and have inherited the original sin from his predecessor and at last it would have been said that she would have be said to have transmitted the sin to jesus! So it is either there is no inherited sin or that jesus also inherited sin since he was born of a woman.

1. To put the argument further, is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.

2. the Christian also proof that jesus is Gid, we will ask, does God punish himself before he can forgive a sin done against him?

3. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they were severely put under curse, the bible when quoting the judgment of God passed on Adam and Eve respectively goes as follows:

Genesis 3v14-19: and the lord said unto the serpent, because thou had done this, thou art cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field, upon thy belly shall thou go and dust shall thou eat all the days of thy life………and unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your pain in child bearing, in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you, and to Adam he said, because you listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, you shall not eat of it, cursed is the ground cuz of you, in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life, thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you and you shall the plant of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground………

Now from the judgment passed, it is observed that women are still labouring in pain during child bearing and men is still finding it tough to get their daily sustenance, but jesus died for the sin. How come the cursed has not been lifted since he came to die for the sin and cursed was placed. If he actually died for the sin, then there should have been any problem in those areas above. Explain pls.

4. if Jesus himself had the notion of dying for the sin of man, why did he plead this way to God as in Mathew 26v38-39:…, my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death……….father, if it be possible, let this cup (death pass from me)?

5. if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death as in john 11v53-54: then from that day forth, they took counsel together for to put him (jesus0 to death. Jesus thereafter walked no more openly among the jews…….

6. if he had prepared to die for the sins of man, why was Judas Iscariot named traitor?

7. why do we accuse pilate as the announcer of his sentence?

8. why do we accuse jews for handling him to do what he has come to do(death)?

Here is an elucidation, Adam and Eve committed sin, their grandson who is not aware of the sin was castigated despite the scripture advise in Deut 24v16: the father shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the sin of their fathers……, also in 2nd Chronicles 25v4: the father shall not be put to death for the children, or the children for the father……… also in Jeremiah 31v29-30: …………….everyone shall die for his own sin . see also Ezekiel 18v20-22: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not die for the iniquity of the father nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son……………,

The above goes with illustration that:

9. if somebody has malaria and some treatment was prescribed, can the father take the treatment on behalf of the sick child?

10. or can a pastor be allowed to face a firing squad or be executed instead of a gangster of notorious armed robbers who actually committed the crime?

WAY OUT (watch out for the origin of sin, son of God, crucifixion, contradictions, who wrote old testament, who is paul, who wrote the four books, Mathew, mark, Luke and john etc)

Based on the above, God does not need any blood sacrifice before he can forgive sins of man as in

Hosea 6v6:for I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice…,

Isaiah 55v7: let the wicked forsake his way…,

2nd chronicles 7v14: if my people which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face ad turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and I will forgive their sins.

Here there is no place where there is mentioned of blood sacrifice , God desired mercy but was input by Pauline Christianity (read gospel of barnabas, he saw jesus during his lifetime), unlike paul that didn’t see jesus but act contrary to his teaching. (coming soon). Jesus did not even mention any blood anywhere but also this paul who lied that he saw Jesus! Jesus during his lifetime preached oneness of God and how merciful and forgiven God is if only u can do away with your sin and not blood anywhere.Also see the Quran

Quran 39v53-54: say o my servants who have sinned against their souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah, surely Allah forgives all sins, verily, He is most forgiving, most merciful and turn to your Lord and submit yourselves to him before there comes unto you the punishment, for then you shall not be helped and follow the best teaching that has been revealed to you from your Lord, before the punishment comes upon you suddenly when you perceive not.

Note; he forgives all sins except polytheists like Christians, three in one God 1+1+1=3

Please answer all the questions correctly and no use of vulgar language please. Know the truth and it shall set you free. Islam is the only religion that will be accepted. All other religions are named after their founders meaning its manmade, but islam stands out. Be wise today, accept islam. Even Jesus was a muslim and so also his disciples. So also Adam, Noah, Abraham, jesus and the zeal of them all Mohammed (SAW). Christians pls have a look at it, is it possible for God to send prophets with different religions? And he is not of confusion as in the book of Isaiah

Quran 2v136: say (o muslims) we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Yaqub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Yaqub (Jacob) and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and Isa (Jesus) and that which has been given to the prophets frm their Lord, we make no distinction between any of them and to Him we have submitted (in Islam).

Quran 2v140; or you say that Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Yaqub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Yaqub (Jacob) were jews or Christians? Say, ‘Do you know better or Allah does (know better … that they all were muslims) and who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony (to believe in prophet Muhammad (saw) when he comes as t is written in their books (the scriptures), he has from Allah? And He is not unaware of what you do.

Quran 3v19: truly the religion with Allah is islam. Those who were given the scripture (jews and Christians) did not differ except ought of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations etc) of Allah, then surely, Allah is swift in calling to account.

Quran 3v70: o people of the scripture (jews and Christians), why do you disbelieve in the Ayat of Allah (the verses about Muhammad (saw), present in the Taurat (taorah) and the Injeel (Gospel) while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)

Quran 3v71: o people of the scripture, why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know.

Quran 2v23: and if you (arab pagans, jews, Christians) are in doubt concerning that whch we have sent down (the Holy Quran) to our slave Muhammad (saw), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witness (supporters and helpers) besides Allah if you are truthful.

Quran 2v109: many of the people of the scripture (jews and Christians) wish that they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even after the truth (that Muhammad saw is Alah’s messenger) has become manifest uto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allah brings His command. Verily Allah is able to do all things.

Also which church did jesus belong to during his time, is it the catholic that worship Mary and also have fathers and mothers. Is there any place that God says you should not marry but this was laid by paul when they went to meet him in the book of Corinthians (2nd) an he advised that it will be better for them to remain like him. Now how will it looks like if everybody becomes father and mother. Or does he belongs to the white garments, one C & S that wears shoes and the other Celestials that doesn’t. or the deeper life that their pastor compels them to be using King james vesion cos he contains some things not in other bibles like the raptures. Or the Oyakhilomes and Synoagogue blinding people with so called miracles. Hey see a scenario, I attended Christ embassy (oyakhilome) church when I haven’t seen the light. When it was time for miracle, he brought two men, one blind from birth, the other deaf and dumb from birth. He then healed the two, the first (blind) was afterwards shown different colours and funny enough, he knew red colour from white, black from green. Now how did a blind knew what red, green, white, brown etc clour. How was he able to differentiate? Also the second deaf and dumb was shown fingers and at the raising of each fingers for counting, he counted one , two, three up to five. Now can any sincere Christian tell me, who teached him the alphabets or was it the holy spirit! (God forbid).

Also have u notice that at the same Christ embassy, nearly all of them speak in tongue, even the robbers, fonicators, etc.

Also why do we have many versions of bible in which for more than 1400 years, its still the same.

I remembered when God used me to touch the live of a man and he reverted back to islam, having explained everything to him, there was a particular verse from the Holy Quran that Allah used for him and I believe if you read it and you are sincere with yourself, you will surely learn from it except those destined to be in hell or if u don’t now the religion to go for. The verse is

Quran 30v30: so set your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic monotheism) with which he has created mankind. No change, that is the straight religion. But most men do not know.

The above verse means that if you are in doubt of the true religion, seek for the religion that it has never seen changes and is in line with the creation of living things. For example, the dog we have in Africa has four legs like the one in Europe or Asia, the donkey has the same feautures all over the world. Also human have the same creation irrespective of the colour height skin etc. so any religion that is like that in which they have everything in common is the religion of God. The reason for being the right religion and religion of nature is that despite your colour, race, tribe, muslim is a muslim, we are being binded by the articles of faith (5), we recited the same surahs and pray the same number of rakats for the same time of prayer. We face the same direction, we fast the same month, etc. now does this applies to Christianity and what is that. (jesus’ blood sacrifice huh? Lol)

Now take this again, in Islam, we have five times compulsory daily prayers in which if you miss like the 2pm prayer, u wont be able to pray the one for 4pm, but u will first pray the one of 2pm before the 4pm, does this applies to Christians too?

Or service starts by 10pm and you came to church by 1pm, will you pay-back all the clappings, dancings you have missed? Will you ask those there that pls how many is the clap I missed and how many dance they have danced?

Truth stands clear from falsehood and no compulsion in religion. Also call people to the way of the lord with wisdom, knowledge and good preaching.

And it is not until you put the whole convincing things at the front of someone before he can accept the truth, it depends on those that God wants to cos the day he created hell, he vouched that he will put people there and also when he created heaven he vouched he will put people there. It will be wise for you today to join the religion of the wise and be at safe hands. Hell and heaven are real. Now let me ask you Christians, what does you have in common as in

1. Can a c & s worship with foursquare with his garment on/ buy in islam you can worship anywhere regardless of your society.

2. Why do some wear shoes to church as opposed to cherubim and seraphim (they have their proof as in the book of moses) where God commanded Moses to take off his shoes cos he’s on holy ground.

3. Why do we have king james version, holy bible, revised standard version, English version, the good news, etc and each contradicting each other.

WATCH OUT FOR THE ORIGIN OF SIN, SON OF GOD, CRUCIFIXION, CONTRADICTIONS, WHO WROTE OLD TESTAMENT, WHO IS PAUL, WHO WROTE THE FOUR BOOKS, MATHEW, MARK, LUKE AND JOHN, IS JESUS GOD ETC)

So answer those questions one after the other which are copied here

NOW CHRISTIANS ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. Can a man allow himself to face firing squad for a sin he has never committed?

3. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action

psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.

4. By raising the notion that men are born sinners, Christianity as a religion has made mockery of God’s love, forgiving capacity, forbearance in accepting our repentance and all out-let for the redemption of mankind through his mercy.

5. If men are born sinners, the coming of Jesus at the end of the world to die for the sins of men is equally stupefying.

6. If we could think over this statement very well, one could ask the protagonist of this doctrine, which kind of God is that who, cos of a sin of two people, decided to condemn the entire humanity for the sin they never participated in nor knowing anything about?

8. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?

Now consider the word carefully< somebody who is just is made to die for the unjust. What kind of injustice is that? One would start to ask. Supposing it is true that jesus die for the sin of mankind,

5. Why did God not send him immediately after the sin of Adam was committed?

6. for what purpose did he intend to delay the crucifixion till some thousand years after the event?

7. however, if jesus actually came to die for our sins and that salvation only lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preach repentance in Mathew 4v17: repent for the kingdom of God is at hand?

8. if all person are under the stain of original sin as the Christian protagonist asserts, children are exempted by jesus because they are pure and inherited nothing as in Mathew 18v3-6; verily I say unto you, except ye be converted as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of God……, also in mark 10v14-15: ………. Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God

if any one born of a woman cannot be clean (job 15v4) and that “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (roman 3v27) or that “none is righteous” (roman 3v10), but if jesus was born by mary and if Adam was not deceived but the woman was deceived and became transgressor (1st timothy 2v14) then mary would be said to be unclean, unrighteous and have inherited the original sin from his predecessor and at last it would have been said that she would have be said to have transmitted the sin to jesus! So it is either there is no inherited sin or that jesus also inherited sin since he was born of a woman.

11. To put the argument further, is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.

12. the Christian also proof that jesus is Gid, we will ask, does God punish himself before he can forgive a sin done against him?

13. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they were severely put under curse, the bible when quoting the judgment of God passed on Adam and Eve respectively goes as follows:

Genesis 3v14-19: and the lord said unto the serpent, because thou had done this, thou art cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field, upon thy belly shall thou go and dust shall thou eat all the days of thy life………and unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your pain in child bearing, in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you, and to Adam he said, because you listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, you shall not eat of it, cursed is the ground cuz of you, in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life, thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you and you shall the plant of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground………

Now from the judgment passed, it is observed that women are still labouring in pain during child bearing and men is still finding it tough to get their daily sustenance, but jesus died for the sin. How come the cursed has not been lifted since he came to die for the sin and cursed was placed. If he actually died for the sin, then there should have been any problem in those areas above. Explain pls.

14. if Jesus himself had the notion of dying for the sin of man, why did he plead this way to God as in Mathew 26v38-39:…, my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death……….father, if it be possible, let this cup (death pass from me)?

15. if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death as in john 11v53-54: then from that day forth, they took counsel together for to put him (jesus0 to death. Jesus thereafter walked no more openly among the jews…….

16. if he had prepared to die for the sins of man, why was Judas Iscariot named traitor?

17. why do we accuse pilate as the announcer of his sentence?

18. why do we accuse jews for handling him to do what he has come to do(death)?

Here is an elucidation, Adam and Eve committed sin, their grandson who is not aware of the sin was castigated despite the scripture advise in Deut 24v16: the father shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the sin of their fathers……, also in 2nd Chronicles 25v4: the father shall not be put to death for the children, or the children for the father……… also in Jeremiah 31v29-30: …………….everyone shall die for his own sin . see also Ezekiel 18v20-22: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not die for the iniquity of the father nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son……………,

The above goes with illustration that:

19. if somebody has malaria and some treatment was prescribed, can the father take the treatment on behalf of the sick child?

20. or can a pastor be allowed to face a firing squad or be executed instead of a gangster of notorious armed robbers who actually committed the crime?

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110 answers

Khai!!

Am short of words

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if a xtian post a similar thread, he ends up bein ban.

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Newbie

You tried but you still need to move on beyond Islam

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He is not. I don't mean to be offensive here; but please understand that a real seeker asks questions of his own heart and not trying to perfect the art of plagiarism!

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Long post there. I see that babs787 is indeed a seeker. The questions you have asked may never be completely answered by posting on this thread. However, I suggest you read 'Summa Theologia' by Thomas Aquinas. He was a brilliant 13th century scholastic philosopher and theologian.

You can see an online version here - > http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/aquinas/summa/index.htm. You should read the section titled 'TREATISE ON THE INCARNATION' . He answered most of your questions a long time ago.

It is a voluminous book. But remember that your post is also long.

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Damn, Are we expected to read all this?

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This poster is just pathetic

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@OP, you ommitted the word die

DID JESUS DIE FOR OUR SIN

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some people should be hanged

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We just saw a 20th century with Athiest Empires and countries like the USSR and China and Vietnam, etc.

Kill off more people than most of the other centuries put together.

Maybe Athiesm is the evil in this world and the sooner we dispense with it, the better?

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judgement day go dey very interesting .keep posting ur sh*t ok, kepp fronting , anu re o se mi ti mo fi ba e da moran

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Blessed are the cheesemakers as they shall inherit the earth.

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I'm really sorry that your dad, Rev. Flecther was also a trickster giving out his own version of a dangerous delusion before he retired.

I'm also sorry to note that you and your crew used the name 'Jesus' to lure gullible Africans to pose Unclad for your kinky Unclad baptism rites on your website.

I'm quite concerned that after all your public pretences, you haven't taken down the same delusion that your crew is running as the kinkyclub (now changed to a humanist church or something like that) to continue the delusion of gullible souls.

Scream all you want. There's nothing in your rants that you don't practice back home with your crew.

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I will start by saying that muslims should start up threads with muslim topics and Christians should start threads with christian topics.

Ehen, now back to the topic, I don't know why Jesus died. Maybe he too doesn't know why because the devil was ruling the earth and people were sinning everywhere till Jesus came and died on the cross. Today, the devil has a stronger grip on the earth and people are sinning times 10 of what the people of those days sinned.

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@ the Revvin' Rev:

aren't you supposed to start your night-shift at that part-time Northerner job up in Buckingham?

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PROVE THAT HE LOVES D WORLD[/b]he [b]SACRIFICED HIS ONLY SON,which i know if u av MILLIONS OF CHILDREN u will never give out any of dem neither will u [b]DO SUCH A BIG THING[/b]will u?i don,t thnk so.

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If God so loved the world, why didn't he come himself instead of sending his only begotten son? (John 3:16)

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Jesus is LORD?

Lord of the Rings?

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bab787, nOTHINg annoys MP007 than human stupidity .First of all, Jesus died for our sins(including urs), Its true that man was not born with sin but we(humans) fell from grace, (when satan did his thing with eve) , it was a result of that event that human generation became sinners, In the early years , animals where used as sacrifices anything one sinned or commited a crime but the coming of christ made it possibe to confess and be forgiven.Keep in mind that forgiveness of sin doesnt mean that u will stil not be punished.

And if u wanna know the sin that he(Jesus) came and died for, let him come into ur life .Ask Jesus and u will be surprised, God bless you, JESUS IS LORD,

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GUD ONE!! hey Reverend u r a good example of a Person who has his a brain but just never use it in d right way!!

one advice 4 u: " u should sew ur self 4 being so silly!!

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Look Reverend, whenever you want to patronise people with your infantile banters, just turn home to your dad and the kinky group. If your dad is the head of a pure fiction club, what's my bother with that? Your hypocrisy isn't worth the waste of time.

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@shahan,

We hear you, bros

So, how about coming closer home to the real deal, since you call us "brethren"?

coming home? explain

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Can every Christian just agree to ignore, ABSOLUTELY IGNORE this kinky reverend? he hasn't made any shred of sense since his first post.

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Bop, I have read, and believe me, my head and eyes are aching badly. I don't think there would be an end to this. Until Jesus comes and put all things in their right perspective.

I hope Muslims believe in the second coming of Jesus.

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lol, funny set of people.

so cele is not part of christianity, na wa oo.

besides i wasnt a celestial member.

u don hear brethren?

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@ Gbade,

Guy i dey oh,

The Revving Rev has been busy growing beards in the light of the scientific postulation that growing beards enhances sexual prowess, saw it on his kinky website.

Guess so much for the frustrated cow, must be somewhere sulking now.

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@ shahan:

nice write up bro. Keep serving it to 'em hot.

@ mrpataki:

ogbeni pataki, how u dey? hope say the Revving Rev no too dey give u wahala. . .

@ babs787:

ok, you asked for an answer to your question, now you've gotten one. So don't come up with some silly bullshit about how your questions were not answered.

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^ if he answers you, then don't come typing some silly bullshit that TayoD didn't answer your questions as you have done in other threads.

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tayod,

stop wasting time and go straight to your answer. an answer for a question.

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babysis,

sorry for the typographical error up, but still refer to the questions up.

thank you

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babs787,

Are you prepared to receive answers or you are just here to waste people's time. Your antecedents show that you never acccept a fact if it contradicts your preconceived notions.

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professor babysis,

no wonder u dont know the difference between recite and interprete. so how and why are same.

how did sin all sin:

Rom 5:12   Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Rom 5:17   For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5:18   Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Rom 5:19   For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Rom 5:20   Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Rom 5:21   so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

why did all sin:

cos adam eat the forbidden tree, abi no be so.

in order not to waste time babysin,

let me refresh your memory, cos Adam and Eve sinned, God cursed Adam and Eve in Genesis, if jesus came to die for that sin.

1. why is the curse still there and hangs on every generation of Adam.gen 3v14-19. he came to die for the sin, why do we still have the curse not removed for the fact that he came to die for it?

2. why did jesus not come immediately after Adam committed the sin and had to wait till many generations had passed away?

3.  for what purpose did he intend to delay the cru7cifiction till some thousand years after the event.

4.  if jesus actually came to die for your sin , and that salvation lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preached repentance in mathew 4v17

5. if all person are under the stain of original sin, why are children exempted (they r also born of a woman as in job 25 v4) as in  mathew 18v3-6.

6. where did he say he came to die for sin in the bible?

7. u claimed jesus is God, must he punish himself before he can forgive sin?

8. the motive for any punishmewnt is to check evil and reform the sinner, without doubt, to punish someone for his past sins even after somone had died for that sin is a sign of vengeance and not justice!!

9.  if jesus can die for the sin of man, why did he plead to God in mathew 26v38-39.

10. if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death in john 11v53: then from that day forth, they took counsel togetherr to put him to death. esus therefore walked no more in openly among the jews but wenjt unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called ephraim and there continued with his disciples.

11. if he had prepared to die for the sin of man, why was judas named traitor.

12. why do we accuse jew of handling him for what he came to do?

these and many more when u finish with those above.

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professor babysis,

no wonder u dont the difference between recite and interprete. so how and why are same.

how did sin all sin:

Rom 5:12   Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Rom 5:17   For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5:18   Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Rom 5:19   For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Rom 5:20   Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Rom 5:21   so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

why did all sin:

cos adam eat the forbidden tree, abi no be so.

in order not to waste time babysin,

let me refresh your memory, cos Adam and Eve sinned, God cursed Adam and Eve in Genesis, if jesus came to die for that sin.

1. why is the curse still there and hangs on every generation of Adam.gen 3v14-19. he came to die for the sin, why do we still have the curse not removed for the fact that he came to die for it?

2. why did jesus not come immediately after Adam committed the sin and had to wait till many generations had passed away?

3.  for what purpose did he intend to delay the cru7cifiction till some thousand years after the event.

4.  if jesus actually came to die for your sin , and that salvation lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preached repentance in mathew 4v17

5. if all person are under the stain of original sin, why are children exempted (they r also born of a woman as in job 25 v4) as in  mathew 18v3-6.

6. where did he say he came to die for sin in the bible?

7. u claimed jesus is God, must he punish himself before he can forgive sin?

8. the motive for any punishmewnt is to check evil and reform the sinner, without doubt, to punish someone for his past sins even after somone had died for that sin is a sign of vengeance and not justice!!

9.  if jesus can die for the sin of man, why did he plead to God in mathew 26v38-39.

10. if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death in john 11v53: then from that day forth, they took counsel togetherr to put him to death. esus therefore walked no more in openly among the jews but wenjt unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called ephraim and there continued with his disciples.

11. if he had prepared to die for the sin of man, why was judas named traitor.

12. why do we accuse jew of handling him for what he came to do?

these and many more when u finish with those above.

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Rom 5:12   Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Rom 5:17   For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5:18   Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Rom 5:19   For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Rom 5:20   Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Rom 5:21   so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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How did all humans sin?

Read Romans Chapter 5 for any one sincerely seeking the truth.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Rom&chapter=5&version=nkjv

The bible makes it clear how.

That's the reason a Child is not taught to lie or deceive.

Children have been known to kill also.

They learn it by the Adamic sinful nature inherent in man.

just as sin entered in by one mans disobedience,Grace and redemption came in by Christ.

Sin could only be atoned for by blood,in the old testament the blood of bulls and rams were used,it only covered sins.

A final sacrifice was made by one who knew no sin as prophecied hundreds of years prior.

To all who received him,He gave power to become Gods sons(not just slaves).

He calls us sons and daughters and fellow heirs with him.

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Chei,God help the teachers that attempted educating this one.

They must be in therapy as we speak.

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@soksam,

it means all humans have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

1. why did all humans have to sin.

2. how did all humans sin

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The "ALL" that had sinned were HUMANS IN GENERAL, then I am waiting for your answer.

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@malik,

u talked as if u dont understand the issue. am concerned about this verse cos thats the verse they used in deceiving you and you did same trying to deceive me as uve been. am very sure they must have used this verse and others to convert you.

u quoted a verse for me and i asked you the meaning, u diverted to the issue of sinlesslessness of muhammed.

u claimed that jesus came to die for christians sin u quoted the above verse and i asked you who the verse was referring to as ALL HAVE SINNED.

i wasnt referring to jesus but asking you who is this 'all'.

and why did 'all sin'

soksam,,

i never said the verse was referring to jesus. all i asked of you are simple questions that,

1. who is this ALL in the romans all have sinned.

2. why did all sin?

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It's not a surprise to me that our Muslim brothers fails to understand what was said in the book of Romans, concerning the "ALL" that had sinned by putting Jesus in the same shoe with the "ALL", but a clear understanding of the Bible will show us that this verse does not include Jesus at all, it even help to show that Jesus is sinless rather than being a sinner.

I will like to bring out some bible verses that will serve as an evidence to what I have just said, this verses show categorically that Jesus was never a sinner. I Quote:

2 Corinthians 5:21: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

Hebrews 4:15: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

1 Peter 2:21-22: ", because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."

bullet 1John 3:5: "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

Now let us listen to what Jesus himself said about this Issue:

John 8 :46: Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

That is Jesus' own word, so I wonder where our Muslims brothers get their theory from?, I hope they will go and do a lot more research from their Imam and Alfas.

Now evidence of Jesus's sinlessness in the Qur'an:

In three different translation of the Qur'an, notice words like Pure, Holy and Fautless in the following verses.

[Shakir 19:19] He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.

[Yusufali 19:19] He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

[Pickthal 19:19] He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

In the Hadith,

Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab:

Abu Huraira said, "I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, "There is none born among the off-spring of Adam, but Satan touches it. A child therefore, cries loudly at the time of birth because of the touch of Satan, EXCEPT MARY AND HER CHILD." Then Abu Huraira recited: "And I seek refuge with You for her and for her offspring from the outcast Satan" (3.36) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 641; see also Volume 4, Book 54, Number 506)

A word is enough for the wise, these I suppose should make our Muslim brother think and seek for how their sins can be forgiven, instead of rejecting and mocking the one that can save them from their sins.

May God bless you my Muslim friends.

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You have always "waited".

Just to understand your bearing: are you trying so hard to understand issues, or you just want to see if the answers proferred square with your personal, limited view of Islam?

Let's start by asking you this: why does Romans 3:10, 23 bother you?

If you're trying to exonerate Muhammad of sins, then I'll be back to rub minds with you. if not, please be my guest and let's discuss this interesting subject.

Sallam.

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malik & SOKSAM,

lets start from here, it will be one after the other in order not to muddle up things.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:10,23)

WHO IS THIS ALL?

AND WHY DID ALL SIN?

am waiting

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malik & SOKSAM,

lets start from here

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:10,23)

WHO IS THIS ALL?

AND WHY DID ALL SINNED?

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Again, I'm impressed. Thank you, sokislam.

However, I wonder what our friends have up their sleeves in asking:

It sounds as though you chaps do not believe in the forgiveness of sins. Of course, I'm not speaking broadly of the mindset of many muslims, that's why I'm careful to narrow my enquiries to you for now and try to see where you're both coming from.

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@sokism,

with reference to your post, i will be very appreciative if you can shed more light on how sins can be forgiven.

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sokislam,

But because the Muslims do not have assurance of salvation and they are feeling very uncomfortable about it, that's why they have to attack the Christians who claims to have such wonderful opportunity. What they could have done is to ask the Christians how their sins can be forgiven, instead they begin to jealous and wonder at such privilege given to Christians and trying to equate the their uncertainty about their sins been forgiven.

can u tell me how sins can be forgiven? lets start from there

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Muslims do not believe that their sins are paid for, and that is the simple reason why they find it very difficult to accept that Jesus came to die for the sins of mankind. Well, it's not really surprising that they believe that because their sin according to the Quran will be weight and be accesde on the judgement day ( Quran 7 vs. 8:9).

But because the Muslims do not have assurance of salvation and they are feeling very uncomfortable about it, that's why they have to attack the Christians who claims to have such wonderful opportunity. What they could have done is to ask the Christians how their sins can be forgiven, instead they begin to jealous and wonder at such privilege given to Christians and trying to equate the their uncertainty about their sins been forgiven.

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@4get_me,

I coulldn't have debated our Muslim friends better. Thank you, and a blessed Happy New Year.

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