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Did Jesus Really Know That Judas Will Betray Him?

The bible says that Jesus alread knew that Judas Iscariot was going to betray him, but here is the problem.

All 12 disciples are to sit on thrones in heaven judging the twelve tribes of Israel? Including Judas Iscariot, who Jesus already knows will later betray him for 30 pieces of silver and then hang himself? there are two very contradictory account of his(Judas Iscariot) death in the bible Acts 1:18 gives a very different account of the death of Judas than what is written in Matthew 27:3-10. In Acts, it says he fell headlong into the field he bought with the silver he had been paid for betraying Jesus, and his body exploded, guts flying everywhere. In Matthew we read that he tried to return the silver to the chief priests, then threw the silver down when they refused it, then went and hanged himself, and after all this the chief priests decided to use the silver to buy the field.

Is Judas Iscariot still going to be amongst the 12 disciples that sit on the throne when Jesus is judging the 12 tribes of Israel in heaven after betraying Jesus?

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37 answers

Posted by: m_nwankwo

MN: This is wrong interpretation.

The Bible says the death and crucifixtion of Jesus was planned and prophesied in eternity and this fulfilled scriptures, which means this was the way it was meant to be. Even casting a lot for his clothes was prophesied hundreds of years before.

23When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom.

24"Let's not tear it," they said to one another. "Let's decide by lot who will get it."

This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said,

"They divided my garments among them

and cast lots for my clothing." So this is what the soldiers did. John 19:23-24

Again the Bible says this was to fulfil the scriptures which was foretold many hundreds of years ago.

36These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken," 37and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced." John 19:36-37

Blessings,

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Posted by: m_nwankwo

MN: your statement is not true.

The Bible tells that Jesus resurrected int he same body he was killed. In the passage below the disciples saw only the strips of linen lying there, no body:

So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. 8Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9(They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead. John 20:3-9

To Thomas he asked to feel the places where he was nailed and bruised on the cross to prove it was the same body and same Jesus who died on the cross.

Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Salvation through Christ is the very basis of Christianity, otherwise there is no redemption for man.

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MN:

I appreciate your respect towards others, I reciprocate the same towards you. It was necessary to clarify some of your posts which divorced from the Bible on the subject of hell, the sacrifice of Christ and salvation.

It is also necessary for me to clarify that what I posted was the word of God, the Bible, and not just my belief and opinion. What you have stated but is your own opinion or belief and no word to support it.

Blessings,

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You are entiltled to your own opinion or belief and I respect that. I have stated my position on the murder of the son of God in previous posts and there is nothing to add or remove from what I have said. It is not my intention to dispute or argue with believers. I simply offer my experiencing of the will of God when discussants pose serious questions about God and his Will. Let each discussants decide for himself or herself what to make of my submissions. I am indifferent to what readers make of my submissions. Thus, it is the choice of readers to accept, reject, dispute, or ignore my submissions. Stay blessed.

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MN:

Your interpretation is incorrect. The Bible says Hell is eternal and the punishment eternal forever. 

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. ,  The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20:10-15

If heaven is for man what is devil doing in it? What was the punishment for devil's rebellion? Heaven was created for devil, man has been an addition.

MN: you are in error as you dont know the scriptures. Listen to what the Bible has to say about hell. This portion refers to torment, heat, agony, fire. There is also repentance, but its too late to repent in hell, repentance after death means nothing. It has to be now and here.

In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' Luke 16:23-26

On the actual thread: Yes, Jesus did know Judas will betray him. He said this to the disciples even at the last supper that one of you will betray me. There are other references to show he knew this and he knew all things about men.

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mn: this is your interpretation, not what the Bible says. Crucifixtion of Jesus is not a crime against God. This was planned by God and nothing planned by God is evil. The heavens acknowledge that the blood of the Son of God, Jesus, was required for the redemption of man. Heavens acknowledge that Jesus brought about the salvation of those who believe through his blood.

And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth." Rev 5

Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. Rev 13:8

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 1Pet 1:18-20

Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins, and without the sacrifice of Christ, there was no way a sinful man could ever go to heaven and stand before the God who lives in unapproachable light.

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. , For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Heb 9:22-29

Blessings

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@Mad_Max

I address the issues you raised and that of UFO below

How I come to know what I post is not important in my opinion since the words should be examined and readers should use their spirits to arrive at a judgement of what is stated. However since you have specifically asked for my sources. I will give you that as I have said many times when discussants ask about it. I draw from the work "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message". Living according to the Grail Message has opened the faculties of spirits allowing me to experience the laws of God and its manifestations in various planes of existence in real time. My answer to people who always ask "How are you sure that what you experienced is the Truth" is that they should try to live according to the commandments of God which Jesus has summed up when he said "Love God with all your heart and Love your neighbour as yourself" If any person strives to live according to this commandment, the faculties of his or her spirits will open and such a person will have the same experience that I have. In summary, obedience to this supreme commandment is the key to unlocking the spiritual faculties and an awakened spiritual faculties can easily grasp the truth or otherwise in any event or circumstanstance.

Biological evolution came into existence by the power of God and is maintained by the power of God. Yes, I believe that evolution is a manifestation of the will of God but that manifestation is quite different in several respects from what science has been able to piece together. But for the moment I will not go into details of these things since the time for it has not come. The spirit as a living specie was and is created by God. Thus the spirit is a living specie and cannot change into another specie. However the human or physical body is not a living specie but coverings or envelopes for living species created by God. Living species, that is, species that have inherent life and are self animating are subject to development but the coverings or evelopes of these species have no life in itself, and are subject to evolution. Thus the spirit is subject to development but cannot evolve into another species. Thus the human spirit cannot evolve into an archangel, an angel, a created spirit, a divine being etc.

Sometime in future, science will be able to go beyound matter. Their will be a new science and  Holy Spirit will be the leader of this new science. Thus science as is practiced today will cease to exist. God and his sons Jesus and the Holy Spirit will let all creatures into the mysteries of all creations. Thus my reference to science refers to this new science. I can not speak for other scientists but for me, years of research on genes and how the work have deepened my conviction in the omniscience and omnipotence of God.

Yes the Grail Message is the source that I draw from. No, the author of the Grail Message did not ask readers to take his word for it. The author demands that readers should examine his words with their spirit and arrive at their own judjement. The Grail Message is the proof of identity of the author.  Those interested should examine it and arrive at their own judjement. I have examined the Grail Message for over two decades and I am absolutely certain that it is a revelation of the the eternal Truth.  This conviction is personal to me and I have no intention to convince others about it.

Spiritual experiences are independent of the brain. The brain is only needed to condence the spiritual experiences to forms that are understandable within the material concepts of time and space and also take material experiences and transform it into forms that can be relayed back to the spirit  The Grail Message reveals that the human brain as it is today is distorted and this distortion is the root of of all the evils and incapacities in man of today and that include diseases of all kinds, short life span, propensity for evil, unreliability of dreams, inability to understand the will of God etc Grail Message refers to this distortion of the human brain as the hereditary sin. Details of how Lucifer (satan) initiated this distortion of the brain, what parts of the brain were distorted, how the distortion came to be inherited and how the brain distortion can be cured and the hereditary sin atoned for can be found in the Grail Message.

These are my views and I must state that they are my views based on my intutive sensing and in some cases personal experience. Thus I have no scientific evidence for what I will state their in.

Their are genuine cases of UFO. What I will say concern those genuine cases where falsehood, natural or pschological explanations have been eliminated. In these genuine cases, there are two explanations, one is that those who experienced it are experiencing non- material events with non material faculties and second is that they are experencing a materialization of a non-material event with their material faculties of perception.

In a plane of medium matter often refered as astral plane lies the abode of unidentified flying objects. The astral plane cannot be seen by physical organs of perception but by astral facuties of perception which all human beings carry in addition to their physical bodies. The space ships are made of astral substance by human beings who have departed this earth and are entrapped in the astral plane (often unknown to them). Such aliens are quite similar to science fiction writers on earth and indeed were former science fiction writers or ethusiasists while on earth except that they have no physical body but are capable of creating an astral envelope just by an act of will.  In laboratories in the astral plane, these astral science fiction ethusiasiasts taste out their theories and develop models that are in some cases millions of light years more advanced than what we have on earth. The reason is simply because the astral substance is at a higher level of vibration and it is easier to mould them into forms of any kind. Even though they have advanced technologies, they lack the material substance and thus they look for opportunity where they can use human beings still in physical bodies to taste their technologies and science, hence the so called UFO encounter and alien abduction.

Thus in many cases, the astral faculties of men and women on earth are temporarily opened by these departed human spirits (UFO) and they have an experience in the astral plane. However since the astral body in an earthly human being experiences through the physical body, it appears to them that such experience is physical. The clue to the non-physical of these experiences lies in the observation that their is no physical evidence left. Thus in abductess who claims that they were operated by aliens, no evidence of physical surgery is found because the surgery was done in his or her astral body which only people with genuine claivoyant abilities can also see.

In some very few cases, the astral shell and the space ships that the aliens use can undergo densification such that an astral substance has consistency similar to physical matter albeit temporarily and in this case people can experience the UFO and the aliens on this earth without an opening of the astral faculties. Such densification can leave some physical trails like body marks on those that encounter it, physical fire etc. However it is not possible to get the aliens or their space ship because the densification allows only a temporal perception of UFO by people but not a permanent materialization. A permanent materialization of an atral substance is impossible and I do not think it is necessary at this point to explain why.  The figure of the human being as we know it today is the coarset reproduction of what the human spirit looks like. In other words the human spirit is in the likeness of the image of God and this likeness is reflected also in the human body. That means that the human body as we know it is the same no matter which part of creation the human being resides. Thus those fanciful pictures people have of aliens are wrong but it is also possible that the human beings that manifest as UFOs can envelop themselves in grotesque astral shell.

The earth is not the only place where their are human beings in flesh and blood. I believe that their are seven universes (I have no scientific evidence for this) and what science know of today is just one universe. In our galaxy and several other galaxies in our universe and other six universes, their are earthlike planets where human beings like us live. Some of these planets housing humans in flesh and blood are at a higher or lower cycle of development compared to our earth. Some has already undergone the last judjement and have ceased to exist, while some are so new that fresh human spirit seed germs from paradise are still being incarnated in them. My perception is that it is not possible for human beings in these earthlike planets to have contact while still in physical bodies because their cycle of development is so varied and the laws of God does not permit a contact where their is unbridgeable gap between the development of earthlike planets and its inhabitants including humans. Equally, it is my view that interstellar, inter-galactic and inter-universe travel is an impossiblity while still in flesh. However when one has departed this life and have returned to heaven he or she can be permitted by God to be a helper  to human beings who are still developing in new and old earth like planents in our universe and other universes.

Their are uncountable number of creatures of God and man is just one of them and  among the smallest even though he imagines himself great. Some creatures of God that are higher than man are so big that they can hold our earth in the palm of their hands and in some cases even our entire universe. It is only ignorance that makes man think that he is great and with a little effort can become a son of God or God. I got to stop here for now. Stay blessed.

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Specifics would be nice. Still,you know all this how? What are your sources, if you don't mind my asking?The power of God controls evolution.Hmmm.The thought that a species might have evolved mechanisms to deal with and adapt to its environment disturbs me not at all. But that's as far as I go with evolution. I don't believe human beings evolved from some industrious single-celled organism. Did we evolve a spirit as well? You believe God created man by evolution, don't you?

All the unsolved mysteries of science will be solved if science goes beyond studying the manifestation of Nature but also studies the power that is the manifestation and makes the manifestation possible in the first place. How on earth can science study the power that makes the manifestation possible in the first place? Physics studies the interactions of energy with matter,biology studies the minute processes of life and death, and chemistry studies the chemical properties of substances. Most scientist don't even believe in the existence of a 'power'.

The Grail Message's sort of your holy book, isn't it? I mean, in the sense of a publication that outlines one's religious beliefs. I mentioned I read it in my teens. Some parts were very intriguing, others were patently unconvincing.I only have dim recall. But I vaguely recollect the author lectures you but cites few sources and authorities himself. He teaches but appears to expect one to take his word for it,on a number of issues. I'm not sure any man has the right to demand so much of others.

I read someplace we only use 10% or so of our brain.I amuse myself imagining what the other whopping 90% is capable of. Superhuman feats that are superhuman only because they'd be new, but if we'd been using a 100% per cent all along, would be pedestrian? Sometimes I think there are aspects of the unaccesed 90% that would enable us to plainly see and interact with the spirit world. Perhaps synapses misfired and some 'insane' people were merely pushed into unknown brain territory. After all, 'sanity' and 'insanity' are slippery concepts. Carl Jung, who knew first hand there's a spirit world because he experimented so much with it, wrote Psychology and the Occult. He made a remarkable statement: That some of his personal, very real and solid experiences of the spirit world is dark matter found only in the insane, the stuff of psychosis.

I'm digressing. What are your thoughts on aliens and UFOs? Do you think were the only form of 'life' in the universe?Perhaps there's life out there that isn't carbon based. You know, life forms stranger than anything we can imagine. The Bible didn't say humans were the only beings he made,and the universe is certainly large enough. We only know the tiniest fraction of the Milky Way,our galaxy. There are untold billions of galaxies in the universe. Is there some unfallen race out there? Are there fallen races that float like balloons and exist on, oh I don't know, wooficus biscuits? Would they need salvation too? Of course you can't say for sure. Or can you? But your thoughts would be nice.

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@Mad_Max

Hi. How are you? Find below my views to the issues you raised.

Yes, all creations of which the physical universes are the last provide evidence that God exists. The creations of God are simply various conformations of the power of God. Thus by studying Gods creations, one will come to an understanding of the will of God, and by understanding the will of God, one will come to the recognition of God. Just like a work defines the talent of the author, creations are living testament to the existence of the creator. Thus in a grain of corn, a human being, a forest, in a solar system, galaxies, universes etc are various reflections of the images or likeness of the images of God. It is not difficult to fathom this. All that one needs is to ask the fundamental question; How did all these creations originate and who created the creations? Simple thinking will lead one to see that the universe and its creatures did not create itself and neither did they arise from nothing. Take human beings that have consciousness and awareness. A particle or collition of particles that has no awareness or consciousness would not have created  the diversity of life such that awareness, consciousness are present in human beings. Simply put, intelligent and selfcounscious life as we can observe in humans could not have arisen from a process or event or singularity which lacks iintelligence and awareness. The faculties of intelligence,consciousness self-consciousness in human beings are very clear evidence that an omnipotent, and omniscience Being is responsible for the creation of humans and indeed all creations. Science speaks of the laws of Nature but it is not enough to concern oneself with only the laws of Nature. One should concern himself with the origin or rather the author of the laws of Nature or the power that created nature and created the laws that maintains and develops nature. All the unsolved mysteries of science will be solved if science goes beyond studying the manifestation of Nature but also studies the power that is the manifestation and makes the manifestation possible in the first place. That invincible power which is every where but which neither science or creatures can measure even though they use it every second is the power of God. I am confident that as science delves deeper into the nature of what constitutes subatomic particles, it will get closer to the fundamental building blocks of the physical and non-physical universes. The fundamental building block of the universe is a gradation of the power of God  called spirit and this spirit is further sub-graded in billions of ways. When these spirits envelope themselves in material substances, they do manifest as atoms, and subatomic particles or what science generally refer to as energy. So far science has been studying the material envelopes covering the spirit core and hopefully one day, scientists that are not bound to space and time will penetrate the spirit core and I predict that many theories as we know it today will be upturned. The missing gaps in all scientific theories including that of biological evolution are simply because the creator of the universe and his power is not factored into these scientific theories. For instance it should be clear to an unbiased observer that natural selection alone cannot account for the significant changes in pre-existing gene pool that leads to new speciation. It is the power of God that determine speciation. But going into this will divert from your question and since evolution is such an emotive subject, I will for the time being avoid explaining how the power of God created and controls biological evolution. Thus one who looks beyond the material manifestations of all creations and its creatures will see beyond the envelopes or shadows and see the core which is spirit that was and is  created by God. Thus the path to the recognition of God lies in uncovering or removing the envelopes that masks the power of God. When the spirit is recognised, then the path to recognising the almighty God is open and that recognition of God is the highest grace that can be bestowed on a creature.

I got to stop here as I have something to attend to. I will give you my views on UFO and alien abduction later on. Stay blessed.

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Seems we have some Atheists in the room. well, everyone is entitled to his belief.

I belief that Jesus Christ knew everything about Judas. If there was no one to betray Our Lord Jesus, He wouldnt have been killed on the cross.

Christ came to die> That was the reason for His coming. To redeem us with the Precious Blood.

Judas was an instrument to our salvation.

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You mentioned that the universe is proof that God exists. Would you elaborate on that? As an aside,what do you think of the UFO sighting/alien abduction phenomena?

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I have to thank you for your time,you know? You've been terribly patient.

I have a few more questions, mostly about the cosmos and stuff,but for now I think I'll give you a breather. Have a pleasant weekend.

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You are welcome.

I think I have given enough reasons why sacrifice of animal, human or even the blood of the physical body of the son of God is evil. I have also given reasons why the crucifixtion of Jesus is a crime commited against God and why the death of Jesus did not bring redemption. But then people are free to believe whatever the wish to. Stay blessed.

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No surprise, I enjoyed your answer to the thought-action manifestation thingie.Thank you.

Oh. I just found there is a relationship between sin,blood,death and sacrifice. The book of Leviticus is full of it. As is Hebrews.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."[e] 21In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people,

Christ was sacrificed, his death was on purpose, and it was a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. It did purchase mankind's redemption.

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Hi again Mad_Max

I have finished replying to your last post before I saw you added the question of hell.

I have posted submissions on hell in this forum. Do a search using my user name and you will find my detailed view on hell. Thus there is no point repeating them. No, I do not think that hell is a state of mind. Hell is real and tangible. It holds many  departed human spirits and they are experiencing the very evils the served their fellow human beings a million fold.  However hell is not eternal for it is the work of man and not a divine institution. Hell came into existence as a result of the misapplication of the neutral power of God by man. The evil volitions of men took on form and became hell. A description of the horrors in these dark regions will be regarded as flight of fancy or fiction. Thus there is no point in reproducing real life description of what happens in hell. Souls remain in hell as long as they are still following their evil passions. It is however possible to still repent in hell although it is very much more difficult than on earth. Some few souls manage to repent in hell. Thus their is unbelievable torment in hell but the torment of the souls are not eternal except the souls refuse to repent. In this later case they remain trapped in hell until t hell comes into the judjement of God and is disintegrated and human souls trapped in hell will also be dinintegrated, that is they cease to exist, that is effacement from the book of life.

Their are billions of variations in these things and that is why a general explanation will not suffice. However since you have not given me any specific example, let me give some general comments. The radiations or energies which our brain under the uncounscious promptings of the spirit use to form words, thoughts and imagination come from these so called unseen worlds. As tangible as the earth is, the worlds of words, thoughts, imagination  are also tangible. The energies in these unseen worlds are without form. The activities of our brain mould these formeless energies into forms which we call words, thoughts and imagination. Thus if two people are absorbing from  from these unseen worlds, it is possible that they are tuned to each other because they are absorbing/and transmitting from these worlds at the same energy frequencies. Thus such people are like satellite decoders in different countries tunes to CNN frequency. They will all recieve CNN irrespective of distance, race, sex etc for they are tapping from the same broadcast. Thus thay can sense each others thoughts, words and imagination without prior knowlege. Watch two people who are truely in love and you will soon notice that before the husband utters an idea, the wife give voice to what he is thinking. This is a very common occurnce that people can observe in their families. The reception and transmission of these energies also follows the law of attraction of similar species. That means that what you sent out to the unseen worl comes back to you a million times more than it was when it originally came from you. If it is pure, it can become so powerful that it draws energies from higher spheres of the unseen world and you recieve an inspiration, an idea to an unsolved problem, a scientific breakthrough, or in some cases a spiritaul experience. Imagination are mental pictures induced by thoughts. The pictures of the spirit is however not imagination and it is much more powerful. I may speak about it someday.

If biblical quotation is interpreted literally to mean the death of the physical body, then it is wrong. You can find the evidence with the people Jesus raised from the dead. Lazurus for instance was raised by Jesus and their is no evidence that Lazurus is still alive on earth today. Thus he must have died again, that is a second time. Beides their are many incidence of people who have been pronounced clinically dead and they come back to life , live for some more years and died again. Reincarnation however means the incarnation of the human spirit into a new human body after the death of the previous earthly body. A calling back of a person that is dead into his body and subsequent reanimation of the same body is not reincarnation but raising from the dead. Thus what happened with Lazurus is not reincarnation but raising of the dead. It is within the laws of God for a dead person to be raised provided that the body has not decayed and the silver chord which connects the soul to the body has not snapped.

I do not believe that everything in the bible is the word of God.  That means that some of the things in it are an accurate reproduction of the word of God while others are the words of men. It is left for each human being to pick out the grains of rice  from a bag continining both rice and sand. Not just the bible, it is a similar story with other sacred texts of other religions. However a genuine seeker can very easily separate what is the word of God from the opinions of men in these sacred texts.

Every human being has atleast in one of his earthlives  listened directly from a messenger of God like Moses, Budhha, Krishna, Mohammed, Laotse, Lorber, etc and in some cases directly from the mouth of the son of God Jesus. The knowlege slumbers in the spirit and all that is needed to bring such knowlege to life is to awaken the spirit. Reincarnation is a grace of the love and justice of God. Without reincarnation, it is impossible to come to a full recognition of the laws of God and how it operates in both the visible and invisible worlds. And you cannot obey the entire laws of God when you have not recognised them. Many on earth today were in one of their incarnation 2000 years ago listened directly from Jesus. Thus every human being has atleast once had the oppurtunity to hear directly the undiluted expanantion ablout the will of God or the word of God. Thus there is no excuse for any human being not to recognise the will of God. I got to stop here for now. Stay blessed

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Hi again Mad_Max

I am pleased that you are aware that taking another persons life is murder. Why then will an exception be made with the murder of Jesus? Sacrificing of animals to what people claim to be god is present in all cultures, not just among the jewish people. Animal and human sacrifice is sign of lack of recognition of the almighty God. God neither desires the blood of animals nor humans. Obedience to Gods laws is the path to the recognition of God. At some point I may explain the mystery of blood and why it is evil to sacrifice humans or animals to God.

God created us to know him and the ways of God are very clear. I do not accept that the will of God is a mystery. It is clear and it is meant to be recognised.   Prophets and finally the son of God has taught us the will or the ways of God. Besides, hardwired in the spirit of each human being is a faculty for the recognition of God. It does not take much for a normal person to sense attributes of God which include justice, love, perfection, omniscience, holiness etc. From my own experience I am certain that satan knew who Jesus is. Yes, John is correct in saying that Light shineth in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not.

I wonder where you got the idea expressed above. It is certainly not from my submissions. How can God be killed? Satan tempted Judas and the priests to conspire and murder the physical body of Jesus and Judas and the priests succumbed to the temptation out of their free will. Thus what was murdered is the physical body of Jesus and not God that animated the physical body. Christ gave men the message of God which he summed up in "Love God with all your heart and soul and love your neighbour as yourselves. If men choose to obey this commandment, they will recieve the power from Jesus that will enable them to overcome sin and come to the recognition of the knowledge of the entire laws of God in creation. Thus salvation is simple, follow the supreme commandment that Jesus gave and your genuine desire to live according to this commandment will link you to Jesus. The connection with Jesus will open your spirit to the power of the holyspirit and reception of the power of the holy spirit will renew ones spirit and give it the knowlege, the power and the recognitions required to live only according to the will of God. Such a person becomes a new creature, he is born again. At the fullness of time such a purified spirit will find his or her way back to the kingdom of God. Thus salvation lies in recognising the words of Jesus and living accordinly.

I said that what people call predestination is actually consequences of their decisions, their free choices. The choice is free but the consequences of our choices are irrevocable. Thus you are free to put or not put your hands on fire but once you decide to put it on fire you cannot prevent being burnt. Man makes the choices and the choices are not predetermined by God. Man is free to go into any direction he wants, but he is bound to what lies on the path he has choosen. God did not decide for us any way. He gave us free will and how we exerise our free will will either result in the torment of hell or the bliss of heaven. Even your parents, the nature of your genes, the country you will be born and all the circumstances of once life is a consequence of ones decisions. Every decision you have made, is making and will make form your fate. You can change your fate by changing the nature of your decisions. That is why their can be no forgiveness without repentence. The genuine desire to repent is an indispensible condition for the forgiveness of sins. The problem is that most people can not look back into their entire existence and judge simply by their present life on earth. Thus God has not determined those who will be saved or condmened. Those who live according to the will of God will be saved and those who oppose it will die (spiritual death).

Yes I believe in reincarnation. Not just a believe for I have had thousands of experiences of my former earth lives. It is one of the reasons that made me question organised religion from my teenage years. You are correct that it is the spirit that reincarnates but you are also correct that most people cannot recall their former earthlives. However it is impossible for the spirit to lose memory of its experiences, rather it is that the spirit for several reasons cannot transmit these memories to the human brain. All their experiences are stored in their spirit but the path to tap into such a knowlege is blocked in most people. The reason is that the bridges through which the spirit exerts its volition on the human brain is destroyed or ineffective in most people. Thus since these spirtual information can not filter to the human brain, many are not conscious of it in day counsciousness. In some people a spiritual bandage is placed before the faculties of the spirit until such a time that the knowlege from past life will be of spiritual benefit to them. However even if they have no recall of such existence, they should look clearly at their personality traits and they will gradually become aware that some of them cannot be accounted for by their present existence. Stay blessed.

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@Mad_Max,

Thanks for your well reasoned submission. It is always a pleasure reading your inputs. I address the  issues you raised as follows

No man, angel, archangel indeed any creature of God can do what Jesus the son of God did. Jesus is not a prophet but a "part" of God, the father. Prophets and messengers of God like Moses, Isiah, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Laotse etc can bring to men the recognitions, that is what God reveals to them but they cannot bring the living word of God since only God can bring his living word. The power of the various prophets and recognitions were not enogh to disperse the "spiritual" darkness which resulted from the disobedience to the will of God. The darkness resulted in humankind succumbing to the promptings of the tempter, Lucifer. Literally speaking, the path for humanity back to God was blocked. Lucifer taught himself victorious until God intervened to bring salvation and redemption to the very few who long for it. Here and there and amid the darkness few human beings cried for God for help. The prophets or messengers of God are creatures and even with the highest guidance from God cannot penatrate the darkness. Humankind was in danger of spiritual death. Out of Love for the very few who are still struggling to find God, God sent his inborn son, the living love of God and incarnated him on earth in male sex. It is a process of radiation which is beyound the scope of what we are discussing. Therefore literally speaking a "part" of God was on earth and he is Jesus Christ. Being a part of God, Jesus brought the power and the living word of God into creation including the earth. He can transmit this divine power and word as he is God the son. It is this divine word clothed in earthly language that shatters the evil and darkness surronding men who wish to seve God and his divine power dispersed the darkness enveloping the various spheres in which human souls live like a hot knife through butter, thus the way to God for humanity was open once more. God is Light and it is only Light that can bring Light amist the darkness. Prophets or messengers of God are not the Light or came directly from the Light but a precipitation out of the radiations of the Light, that is preciptation out of the power of God. Hence no man on creature no matter how blessed can do what Jesus did and continue to do. That is why the name Jesus Christ (because it is a part of God the Father) carries such magnetic radiance and power that wherever such name is uttered in purity and out of deep conviction, what men call miracle occure. If God wishes to enter creation, and the earth, God has to incarnate in a physical body. The physical body is just a cloack or an istrument used to experience earthly matter. Thus there is no difference between the body of Jesus and that of men. The difference lies in what gives life to the physical body, in case of men it is the spirit, a creature of God and incase of Jesus, its is God-the creator.

No, free will and predestination does not contradict each other if understood correcly. Predestination is the manifestation of reciprocal actions as a result of previous decisions of the spirit. It is simply harvest of seeds previously sown. The only problem is that many believe that they have been on earth only once. My own experince is that each one of us has been on earth as human beings severa times. Many penticostals trying to discredict the catholic church today were once catholic monks and helped in extablishing the catholic faith. If the veil into once existence is lifted, one can only smile at the present disputes among religions. The same goes for a lot of things which people fight over. Some of what we experience in this life and called predestination are reciprocal actions coming from our previous existence on earth and our experiences in unseen non earthly enviroment. People call it predestination because they cannot trace the origin of what they are experiencing. If however they genuinely asks God for help, a veil will be lifted permiting the eyes of the soul or spirit to look at once entire existence. Then it will be clear that we reap what we sowed or accepted to reap what others sowed in other to mature in a particular way or accomplish a particular mission, that is what ever happens to us is a consequence of our free decision.

No, it is not every creature that have free will. Beings like archangels who are closer to the proximity of God have no free will of their own, they swing absolutely in the will of God and that is one of the reasons why their spiritual or divine bodies have pinions or wings. Lucifer originally has no will of his own for he came into existence close to the proximity of God. It was when he was sent into material creation to help in the development of young human spirts that he developed a will of his own and became a spirit. The world of matter is very far from God and thus its possible for ego-consciousness to arise.

I have given expalanation to that above. The mission of Jesus is to open a path to God the Father and Jesus accomplished that mission. Without the incarnation of Jesus (and this may sound bizzare and fiction to some people) the earth and its unseen enviroment would have suffered premature disintegration and the human beings trapped in these planes would have suffered spiritual death. Had Jesus not come, we would have ceased to exist. True, many rejected his words but the life belt which is his words is there for men to cling and katapult themselves back to the kingdom of God.the father. Thus Jesus offered the life belt through his words and to take or reject the lifebelt is dependent on the free decision of men. Besides Jesus was not sent to take the sins of humanity but to offer men a life belt, a spiritual detergent with which men can wash their sins away. The life belt or detergent is the words of Jesus Christ

Satan knew fully well that Jesus is the son of God even before Jesus was incarnated on earth. Satan has been plotting even before the birth of Jesus to derail the mission. The temptation in the wilderness is one  the efforts satan made to undermine Jesus mission even before it started. Lucifer knew the laws of God and he suggested to Jesus to do things which are impossible according to the laws of God. Thus by suggesting to Jesus to turn stones into bread, satan is trying to induce Jesus to do the impossible and if Jesus has succumbed to the temptation he will emerge from the wilderness and try to convert stones into bread. That will not happen and that will severly undermine the assertion that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus however carries all the living laws of God and he knew that satan was trying to tempt him and undermine his work of slavation. Jesus rejected the temptation. Actually, Lucifer got the name anti-christ because of his desparate mission to thwart the work of redemption brought by Christ. The unclean sprits stuff will require a more detailed explanation on possession and how possed people can be cured. Let me for the moment leave it out of my expalanations.

Your argument seems to suggest that a good fruit can arise from an evil tree. You accept that what Judas did was evil and yet you argue that a consequence of this evil, that is the death of Jesus is salvation. Evil cannot produce good nor will God use evil or the origin of evil principle (satan) to fufill his will. What an irony that the enemy of God is unknownly helping God to fufill his will. I hope God and satan are not playing a chess game. Following your train of reasoning, God sent his son to be murderd by men so that his blood should be used to purchase their salvationand yet the same God condemmed those who killed his son. Is it not an irony that God will be condeming people who helped in fufilling his will. Not even any of the present believers will name their child Judas and yet the glorify the consequence of the actions of Judas and his acomplices. Besides is God a blood sucking vampire that requires the blood of his own son? It is only evil that requires blood sacrifice, not God and to associate God with using blood and murder of his son as a way to redeem mankind is a debasement of the Godhead. Murder and shedding of human blood resulting from it is a heinious sin under any circumstance. Why will there be exception in the case of the blood of Jesus?

Do you really believe that bloodshed is a "sort of valid spiritual currency"? Murder is murder and those who engage in those activities are sining against the laws of God. The assertion that Christ came to shed his blood is a lame excuse by mankind to try to justify a heinious crime. How can blood shed by murder bring redemption? The death of Christ atoned for non of our sins but burdened us with a grevious murder. Sadly the emphasis on murder and shedding of blood obscure the real redemtion which is obeidence to the words of Jesus. If God can demand the blood of his son for the salvation of his creatures, then that is not the God who is the father of Jesus. Then why do the same God condem murderers and ritualists that sheds human blood?  It is evil entities, evil human beings, demons, evil spirits that deal with blood acrifice and murder, not God-the almighty creator.

Their is no human being in Jesus Christ. The physical body is not what makes people human but the spirit and christ is not spirit but God. Yes his body felt the agony like any physical body will do but that was not why he prayed. He prayed because he knew that the consipiracy, the betrayal, the murder are a consequence of the free will of men. Jesus is one with God the Father and their is never a second in which that connection was severed. Thus Jesus for all times knew the will of God the Father, Jesus will is one with his  Fathers will and cannot be separated from it. The coming death weighed heavily on the physical body of Jesus. Jesus went into prayer, to recieve strength from God the father so that his physical body will pass through this macabre drama unperturbed. Although Jesus is one with God the Father, God the father is greater than Jesus. One can say that Jesus Christ is a "small part" of God the Father that became personal.

Give specific examples from your experience or that of other people  and I will offer an explanation behind the incidence. Once again stay blessed

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Mr Nwankwo, I think I get what you're saying here. That Christ came to preach to men, but knew he might die,since men have free will, with which God does not interfere. But why would God send Christ on a mission men can fulfil, and have been fulfilling for ages? Israel listens to its prophets and takes their words very seriously.In old testament times, a prophet had to be right: he gets it wrong, he pays with his life. The Jews were more than willing to accept Christ as a mighty  prophet. God sending a man and equipping him to spread his word would've accomplished[i] that [/i] purpose better and faster, wouldn't it? Why would he send Christ, an eternal spirit who enjoys a unique relationship with him, who was there when God said 'Let us make man,' to the world merely to preach God's word? And he sends him as a man too, with nothing that distinguishes from other men so that they would immediately know He is Christ?To all intents and purposes, he is a man, nothing more? Why would He send Christ,unless it was to accomplish something only he can?

You know, your arguments are very interesting. Free will and predestination: they contradict each other, don't they?Every entity in existence has free will. Even spirits are individuals, they can reason and make choices,they have personalities and varying degrees of power and influence, just like people on earth.

So Satan, the artist formerly known as Lucifer,made Judas betray Jesus, and Christ is killed at an appointed time.

But that seemed to be the point.

How do you send your son to take the sin of humanity upon himself,fully realising that men have free will, and that Satan rules amongst men and may use them to thwart that purpose?

Have you noticed how Satan doesn't appear to know for sure that Christ is the Son of God while he was a man? See Luke 4 and Mattew 4. Notice how there is absolutely nothing in Christ's physical appearance that gives him away?Christ merely says he is the son of God, not to Satan but to other men? Have you noticed how every single unclean spirit Christ attacks immediately know who he is the moment he engages them,as if, when they encounter his power, they recognise it?  But notice that in no way does Christ engage Satan?Christ did not once use his power against Satan himself, or engage him in any way,but allowed him to say what he liked, he merely responding? Perhaps because if he did something directly to Satan, the same power-signature those unclean spirits recognised when they personally encountered it would immediately become apparent? There is a place where unclean spirits were proclaiming his identity and he tells them to be silent,because they'd recognised him.  

It seems the real identity of Christ and his purpose on earth was hidden from Satan.

He was never sure, and when he asks Christ to confirm his identity,Christ doesn't,but sidetracks him. Satan knows the Son of God, the eternal spirit entity. Christ was there when Lucifer served God, and witnessed his rebellion. They knew each other. But Satan was looking at a man now, and had no way of knowing if it was the same spirit entity,in the flesh.Notice how Satan shows him all the glories of this world if Christ, whom he saw as a man who may influence many for God,his enemy, would serve him? Would the glories of the world tempt the son of God,who knew far greater glories? He had no idea who Christ really was, much less what he was on earth to do. But he'd heard he was the son of God,sought confirmation and gotten none.(Luke 4:2-13)

What did Satan do? Satan's purpose is to take as many men as he could down with him. He wasn't sure if Christ was actually the Son of God but whatever he was there to do would not be to his advantage. This servant of God was so powerful Satan himself came to tempt him. Since he could not be bribed with the world's goods, he used Judas and had him killed. But by that Satan himself helped God to fulfil what Christ had come to do: purchasing redemption and a direct route to God for every man who would take it. That he die was the endgame. Satan was outplayed there.

Death (bloodshed) seems to be some sort of valid spiritual currency,and so weighty and priceless is his death (blood) that it bought access to God and the right to be with God after death,for every man who would take it.Because of free will,it has to be a choice.

You know, Roman soldiers were the fiercest,the best,the most intensely trained and most disciplined soldiers in the world. They had mock battles every single day. 365 mock battles in a year. When Roman soldiers scourged a man,it was a truly horrific spectacle. I think the human being in Christ quaked at the prospect of the agony to come, and asked that that cup and that hour pass from him. But he says not his will but God's be done.

Oh yes. I'm interested to know more about how mental activity interacts with the unseen and is made manifest. I'm really fascinated by that.

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Why do we keep arguing about things that do not matter?

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No, Jesus did not ressurrect in the same body he was killed. The further explanation is not for you. I clearly stated that if Mad_Max want further explanation on the issue of ressurection, I will oblige. If she does not want it, I will not give further expanantion. The choice is left to Mad_Max. There is nothing self deafeating in my assertion that Jesus resurrected in another body. I could well expalin what is meant by your biblical citation but their is no point in doing so. Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to many for one reason, to give them tangible evidence that the spirit continues to live after the death of the physical body. Thus phsical death is not the ceasation of life but a transition to life. Stay blessed.

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Jesus Christ Resurrected in the same body that he was killed in. Please dont even attempt to explain further. It would have (in my opinion) been self defeating, if he had risen in another body. Remember what He said, "Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again." (John 10:17)

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Thats what the Bible said

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Matthias replaced Judas Iscariot . . . that is boldly proclaimed in the book of acts.

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This caught my attension. can you post you post the chapter in jeremiah and lets look at it? the chapter has nothing to do with judas at all. put it up if you can and lets look at it together.

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@Mad_Max

Thanks for your input. I address the issues you raised as follows:

Yes I believe that Jesus resurrected after his death and appeared to many including the doubting Thomas. However the resurrection was not in a physical body but a transformed non-physical body. I may expalin that in details if you are interested in examing the process of resurrection.

Jesus knew of the probabilty that he might be murdered by the people he came to save once God the father made the decison to send his son to save mankind from there sins. Thus Jesus knew of this probablity that he will die even before he was incarnated on earth and that probabilty was also revealed to various messengers or prophets of God, hence the prophecies about his coming and death. As Jesus became conscious that he is the son of God, he could consciously survey the entire will of God and based on his living knowlege he came to the sad realization that men will continue to disobey the will of God, and that even his disciples can still be willing tools in the hand of darkness and such disobedidence will untimately lead to his death and hence his death on the cross became a certaintity to him instead of a high probability. Jesus cannot prevent Judas from betraying him because God does not interfer with the free will of man, the perfection of the laws of God allows man to use his free will but also to taste the consequences of his free will. Judas has several oppurtunites to change his course but he refused since he has given his soul to Lucifer, the enemy of God. Jesus did not avoid death because the main accusation is that he is the Truth, the son of God. To flee or avoid death is equiivalent to denying that he is indeed the son of God. Jesus is the son of God and he cannot deny what he is even at the risk of his own death. It is like you have a son and people are accusing you that you are making a false claim by claiming to be the mother. If you are certain that you are the mother of the child, you can face anything even death to prove that you mean what you say. Jesus stood by his conviction that he is the son of God, the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Yes I do know how thoughts, words, imagination etc interact with unseen enviroments. I have had experiences of seing what people think and picking the thoughts and words of others is also a common occurence. Sure some people can condense their mental images to become materially visible. It is a question of radiations and transformation of radiations to matter and vice versa. I will be willing to offer a detailed expalanation of these processes if you want and you present specific examples since the subject is so vast to discuss in general terms. However these abilities should and must come naturally and should not be acquired through an occult or mystical training. Occult or mystical training is a dangerous to the spiritual development of man. Stay blessed.

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@tonye-t

Thanks for your input. Let me address the issues you raised.

I do not believe that Judas or Pharoh or indeed any other person is predestined. What people often refer as predestination is a reciprocal effect arising from their former actions, thoughts, words, intuitions, motives etc. In otherwords predestination arise as a result of the use of free will. However since men cannot counciously follow the origin of the action that gave rise to what they call predestination, they attribute to either God or Satan. If a human being or entire mankind indulges in a particular activity so strongly, it will genereate the reciprocal currents that will influence future activities. Just an earthly analogy. If a person has the urge to smoke and indulges in this sinful appetite for a time, it will reach a point where it becomes an addiction, that is he has lost his free will to quit smoking even if he wants. He who knows the spiritual process as well as the biological process governing addiction can predict that such a man will continue to smoke even when he has decided to quit smoking, that explains why addiction to basal intincts like smoking, gluttony, sexual immorality are difficult to cure.

Prophecies are simply predictions of the consequences of the free will of MAN or revealation of the coming will of God or its manifestation. Even before Jesus came to earth, it was forseen that since humanity has followed the way of sin, that is disobeyed the will of God, they will oppose God. Thus it was forseen that their is a probabilty that Jesus will be murdered since he is like a sheep in the midst of wolves. As Jesus came, men never changed their ways but became even more antagonistic to God and what was a probability that Jesus may be killed  became a certaintity that he will be murdered.

By your argument you seem to suggest that God destined Jesus to die.  That is, that the crucifixtion and death of Jesus is acording to the will of God. If you follow that train of reasoning, then all those who betrayed Jesus and crucified him helped in fufilling the will of God. If they are doing the will of God, then kindly expalin why Jesus asked that they should be forgiven for the know not what they do. Do God forgive people for doing the will of God? It is indded an irony that most believers accept that Judas, the high priests etc commited sin by betraying and crucifying Jesus, yet they accept that blood shed by the sinful activities of Judas, the high priest will bring salvation. Sin or the product of sin is still sin and cannot bring redemption and salvation.

Sure, you may consider what I said to be herectical. If it is the will of God that Jesus came to die, why then did Jesus pray that the cup will pass away? Jesus is God the son and he knows exactly the will of his Father and yet he is praying for that will to pass away. I hope you will see the absurdity in that train of thought. Jesus prayed that the cup will pass away because he knew that his death is not the will of God but a consequence of the free will of men. Again an earthly analogy may suffice. If your loved ones are entrapped in a buliding engulfed by fire and you really loved them, you will try to save them even at the cost of your own death. Bystanders who knew how you loved your family predicted that you will enter the fire to save your family inspite of the intensity of the flame. True to their prediction, you came, entered the burning house and rescued your family. In the process you got burnt to death by fire. It is correct to report that your love made you to enter the burning house. It is also correct to report that in saving your family you got fatally burnt by fire but it is wrong to say that you entered the fire to die and that being fatally burnt by fire saved your family.

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According to the book of Judas, he knew. Infact he (Jesus) planned it from the start.

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Brother i stand to correct you on that, He was predestined like Pharoah was (Rom.9:17) remember a prophesy went before him (Acts.1:18)

Very Big Heresy there my brother,

what did he mean by saying "Father never the less not my will but your will be done"  and "my hour has come" "this temple will be destroyed and in 3days it will be rebuilt"? i dont want to start quoting all this scriptures, answer me. be careful what you say, it could be idle

i dont want to waste time quoting scripture, pls quote yours to back your claim

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@m_nwankwo

I've never heard that version of events before. Do you believe he was ressurected after his death?

You say Christ knew Judas was going to betray him, the son of God. At what point would you say he knew? Before he came to the world at all, or when he met Judas? Since he foreknew Judas's intent,and he had a mandate as important as salvation through his words to fulfil,why didn't he avoid Judas's betrayal and his own death? Foreknowledge makes that easy,no?

I've been meaning to ask you: Do you have any ideas on how our thoughts and words and imagination interact with the unseen? You've had the experience of singing in your mind, only to have someone echo the words out loud, haven't you? I've heard of people visualising stuff, only to have the mental images in their minds materialise? What's happening there?

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I dont think he knew.

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Jesus knew that Judas will betray him. However Judas was not predestined to betray Jesus. Judas out of his free will succumbed to the temptations of the darkness and became a tool for Lucifer or what many know as satan. Had Judas not succumbed to the darkness, had the entire mankind listed to Jesus and obeyed his words, then Jesus would not have been betrayed or murdered. The murder of Jesus is a consequence of the misuse of the free will by men, a consequence of sin, a consequence of the fall of man. Jesus did not come to die as is often assumed by many but to bring the Truth, to explain to men the will of God, his father. Jesus brought salvation to mankind through his words for Jesus is the word of God made flesh. The knowlege of the will of God which Jesus brought and the accompanying miracles shoke men from their slumber and awaken many to the recognition of God. Lucifer, rebelled against the mission of salvation brought by Jesus and attempted to derail it. He cannot get hold on Jesus himself as the divine purity of Jesus makes a personal attack from darkness impossible. The devil made use of willing tools, among them are the religious leaders of that time and Judas. They succumbed to the temptations of the darkness and set in motion events that culminated in the murder of the son of God. The murder of Jesus is the most heineious crime ever commited by man, since it is a crime directed personally against the son of God. Thus the murder of Jesus is a sin against God personally, it did not atone for any of mankinds sin but burdened mankind with a sacrilegious crime. Judas and all the people who participated in the murder of Jesus either in thought or deed paid and some are still paying for laying their hands on the son of God. Atonement lies in living according to the words of Jesus and not his blood or death.

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@Bindex,

brother u are one man i truely respect here for your grace of reasoning, but u c the Bible spans beyond the powers of human reasoning thats y even great philosophers before you and like you will continually have problems trying to fathom what men possessed of God's spirit wrote. (1Tim.3:6)

I have read through your post here and i will pick you word for word and correct you where necessary in the spirit of humility

No.1 : Brother u must realise  that the way God thinks, behaves and acts are not the same of man,

again,

Brother in my little years of experience in the Holy scriptures i can boldly say that Judas' fate is left known only to God, i just hope you aint trying to ask about heaven or hell, if only you understand the real meaning of heaven (its referred to as the "Real and original intent of God's life for man" ) because to me he was simply an instrument used by God to bring about God's purpose for mankind, afterall have you ever asked why Moses who was banned from entering the promise land for disobedience still got his way to heaven?, to me that is God in play, he choses to do whatever he likes and when he likes

no need questioning Him, because its just futile trying to do so

check this out again,

have you ever asked why Moses who was banned from entering the promise land still got his way to heaven?, to me that is God in play, he choses to do whatever he likes and when he likes

i will be pleased to let you know that first of all, Jesus wasnt a fool when he chose Judas Iscariot, remember this guys have been predestined to serve the visitation of God in the flesh to mankind ( i mean Jesus)

so to me he has a place in the new life to come, although may be not in the throne as you are trying to assume, because the problem is that you only pick texts randomly and form a base for argument from it, reading to the end of the text in that Acts you quoted you'll discover that "another person was chosen to fill in Judas's place in person of Matthias (Acts.1:21-26)

so when Jesus spoke of the 12 thrones, he still knew that 1 will be replaced for another following prophesies (psalm.69:25,Psalm.109:8)

My dear brother, pls try and realise that we are not in the position to judge who will be condemned or commended (Rom.9:17-23)

No.2 : you see why i say u jump into immature conclusions?, first, a prophesy was said about this man's death (Judas) by Jeremiah that a field will be bought by the money used in buying the Christ and there the seller will die and the field will be called "place of blood" so go back and search again there was never a place that said Judas bought a field, but that this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity. At least you can agree with me that supposing i send you to pay my school fees, it will still reflect that i have paid my school fees regardless of who paid for me.

i want to sound this to you Bro.Bindex

One thing mysterious about the Holy scriptures is that if you want to find errors the whole scriptures will present itself as a pack of errors, but if you chose to believe in its simplicity and accept God that way, to you it will be that way,

THE BIBLE IS ONE BOOK THAT MAKES FOOLISH MEN WISE AND WISE MEN FOOLISH

THE BIBLE IS ONE BOOK THAT DESTROYS SOME AND RAISES OTHERS

its all a matter of choice, choose where you want to belong

Refer:

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Matthias took his place.(Acts 1:25-26). I don't see why this is important anyway.

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I am not sure whether he's replaced.

But I know one thing, when I ask for Forgiveness of my sins, I use the blood shed by Jesus for me on the cross.

Jesus even stated that those that nailed him were forgiving, the essence of christ coming to this world I believe is forgiveness.

So, the way I see it, for the sins committed either by paul or anyone like damola, my father will forgive me, so he can be on the throne,

The throne is to be seated by twelve men, all of which have committed sin at once time or the other, And remember no sin is greater than the other.

We all live on the grace of my father in heaven.

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Well, you are looking for contradictions,aren't you?

Judas was replaced by someone else. I don't think it's Paul, though. Christianity was already established and Paul was a very religious and highly educated fellow zealously bent on crushing it, before his conversion.

Acts and Paul's letters were written before Mattew, Mark,Luke and John wrote their accounts. The disciples followed Christ as young men, and wrote the gospels as old men, from memory. So they can be forgiven a few minor discrepancies. For instance someone related an incident took place as Christ was leaving a place, another related the same incident,saying Christ was on his way to that same place. But these are very very few. In nothing even remotely important do they disagree. I would have been suspicious if all their accounts,written at different times in different places, tallied in EVERY SINGLE MINOR DETAIL. It would have smacked of collusion. As it is, it's even more convincing.

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Christianity is based on faith.

So the more contradictions that you find in the bible, the more faith is required to believe in it.

Thus making one a more faithful Christian.

If not i'm sure someone will come up with a more logical explanation,

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god has replaced him with apostle paul.this is done in fulfilment of the scripture as clearly slated in psalms.i can't really get the verse now but will do that later

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