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Divorce And The Northerners:what Is Missing ?

Salamu alaikun Bros, The Northerners call something SHEKE HUKU, Meanning the act of pronouncing I DIVORCE U 3 time concurently by the husband and that is the end of there marriage, even with a very little misunderstanding they pronounce this and that is the end of there marriage, bro, in lieu of this we have thousand of single mother in our mist, huuunnn, what is the actual meanning of the ayat that talk about this , abi is it not from Q2 vs 282 downward,

While waitinq 4 your opinion abt this, i remaing most sincerely yours.

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my dear bros and sisters.

I will be obliged to say that osisis posts of copy and paste is actually right and within the confines of islam. Olabs analysis is also right acoording to some scholars and this is one of the issues we have ikhtilaf (differences of opinion) in islam and it has to be respected.

Imam Malik, Abu hanifa all accepted the triple talaq and this is well known in fiqh without any iota of doubt. Imam ibn Tayminiya Shaikhul islam may Allah be merciful to him was the first scholar to disregard this ruling and legislated that 3 talaqs in a go is still one. This was among many other issues the imam oppossed in his time and his fellow scholars rejected some and accepted some, the imam was an hambalite but was kicked out of the hamabli school when he questioned some of the rulings of the school.

I personally hold on to the opinion of the imam ibn taymiyyah my beloved Sheikh on this matter and although i am more of Maliki i feel his position on this matter is strongest and most valid.

However @ Olabowale

Egbon i will advise we respect the rulings of the 3 schools on triple talaq and not oppose it or condemn it as that was their understnding and understanding of the muslims up until 600 odd years imam ibn taymiyyah came with his opinion on the matter. We cannot condemn the great scholars who accepted the rulings like an nawawi and co.  Their ruling is also based on the understanding of  that verse of the quran. The northerners that practise it is not out of culture or tradfition but out of well grounded ruling in islamic fiqh. I am a student of fiqh and have studied other fiqhs apart from Maliki which i am and the more you studdy the more you appreciate and respect the works of the early scholars. In hanafi and maliki fiqh till date triple talaq although discouraged and frowned at when said it equates to 3 talaqs.

Wallahu a'lam

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@Muhsin: Te post that started this thread specified Islamic procedure of divorce. He forgot that not all Norherners are Muslims. Should we expand this to cover the northerners, without regard to Islam? If this is yes, then please tell us about the animist and the christian Northerners divorces. I am not a northerner.

Am not a historian, either. I only speak about Islam, and northern Muslims do not have their own Islam. No one have an Islam that is different from what is in Quran, or hadith and sunnah different from that of Muhammad (AS). When Islam is maligned or misinterpreted, it is the duty of all muslims to come to defend it.

I have chosen the best path, since we are all trying to learn about the truth.

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@$Osisi: In my sleep, last night, Allah blessed me with knowledge to remember something that Jacob/Israel (AS) did abut food for himself. Let me relate the story: Jacob had a contact, an angelic visit, at night (dark, no light, no one can see the face of the angel. it was darker than the murky (not so clear look of what you see of body of water as the night is about to begin) look that you see of water when the sun is setting on the surface.

So after the nightly contact, the Angel was leaving just before dawn (the start of the end of night darkness and the beginning of light to start the new day), and Jacob wanted to see his face. So he resorted to wrestling as a tactics to keep the Angel from leaving until there is enough light so that the his face can be seen clearly. The angel was not given permission to allow to permit this desire of Jacob. The angel by permission of Allah pressed the place of ball and socket joint (the thigh area) of Jacob. Jacob experience some pain, so he let go of the Angel, who revealed the new name, Israel that Allah wished to call Jacob from there onward. Jacob marked this event by personally imposing on himself a law not to eat a hind quarter of animal. This was what he forbade himself. And unfortunately, his bloodlines after him like drones adopted it, even though it was not made obligatory on them. Read the below verse from Quran that points to this fact:

From Surah Imran (Chapter 3)

[93] All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel made unlawful for himself, before the Law (of Musa) was revealed. Say: "Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth."

[94] If any, after this, invent a lie and attribute it to Allah, they are indeed unjust wrong-doers.

[95] Say: "Allah speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Ibrahim, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans."

From the above, you see that Allah did not rebuke His prophet Jacob (AS). But Allah wished that no one will ever impose any law on himself because others might think it is from Allah, just because of the piety of the person. In a way, what I think about Jacob, now Israel about this personal imposition, is that Allah allows it for him, because Allah does not allow a thing said by a prophet to be found untrue, unfulfilled. (If it was an ordinary person who set such a restriction on himself, and Allah accepts it for him, I will be pressed to say that it was a way of punishing him for being such a zealot,or overzealotness. You will see what I mean if you read my previous posts, above about the 3 talaqs in one session to end a marriage).

Now, I will go to Surah Maida to clear things up for you when you consider the imposition that Jacob/Israel set for himself.

The Holy Qur'an > Surah  Al-Maidah> Verse  5

This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are Believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time, when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues. If any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).  

The Holy Qur'an > Surah  Al-Maidah> Verse  87

O ye who believe! make not unlawful the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, but commit no excess; for Allah loveth not those given to excess.  

From Verse 5 of Almaidah, we see the injuctions of lawfulness, and obedience cover marriage and not only limited to food. And from Verse 87, we see that Allah as a favor to the final nation of believers, the Muslims under the prophethood of Muhammad (AS) warns and forbids the making of laws on ourselves, even though we may like and think we can cope with the self restrictions and deem them as sign of piety. But all laws is from Allah, and those He permitted though His Messenger (AS).  So from the above; Surah Imran and Surah Maida, we see that Allah restricts us from all kinds of zealotness or overzealotness. No wonder we the Muslims do not follow the food restrict that Jacob (AS) set for himself, which are blindly followed by (Jews). Although we follow the fasting of David, Jesus, and fast on Ashura because Moses started it as hisown tradition to show gratitude of his victory over Pharaoh.

In my earlier post, you will see therein that Muhammad (AS), in his mild manneredness, as a prophet, instead of saying to the man that 3 pronouncements is equal to 3 divorces, and you can't marry her again, unless she is married to somebody first, and divorced from him, he said to the man that it stands for just one talaq. In other word; it could have been said a number of times, regardless of how many time more, it will just count as one and not two and not three, etc! And the prophet (AS) mercifully suggested to the man that he can take his wife back, for the next round of marriage, say marriage number 2, for example, I will assume since he did not know if 1 talaq is valid or it is 3 talaqs. For if he had been divorced before, since the laws of divorce had been revealed, he would not be seeking knowledge about it, this time around. He wouldhave repeated what he did before!. No one knew, or he did not believe that the community or persons he had informed knew the correct answer. This was the reason he came to the seat of knowledge, Prophet Muhammad (AS) to find out before he lost his wife, out of share ignorance. The man thought he had rushed 3 marriages into 1 single marriage. Come to thing of it, this is the same misgiving of the Christians about having to say that 3 gods is equal to One God!

If 3 talaqs to announce the end of the very first round of marriage is equal to the end of 3rd marriage, which is at least final in the successive sequence of marriages between two people without another man marrying the woman, then the prophet would not have allowed the man to marry his wife, again based on his statement of "it stands for 1 talaq, and take your wife back." This proves regardless of how many talaqs pronounced, it can only be as effective as the pronouncement of just one talaq! The over doing it is just an overzealotness. The effect is zero.

However, after the death of the prophet(AS), and even after Abu Bakr (RA), during the Kalifah of Umar Khattab, we see that Muslims are going out of the boundary set in Quran and ahadith of Muhammad (AS). And by the way, again, Umar's actions or saying, if it did not come from Muhammad or allowed during his time, it can not be Sunnah or ahadith. We realise that some muslims were fought against because of their refusal to pay Zakat to Abu Bakr. They did not say that they were not muslims, anymore. They aid that the death of the prophet ended up the collection and payments of zakat! Yet they did not say the same about Salah, or Saum or Hajj or the two Shahadas!

Umar adopted the 3 talaqs as a means of punishment for those who hasten to get rid of their wives. For you see, after divorce, it is natural that men (including me) reflect and miss the woman, the companion. At least both husband and wife are legal means of sexual comfort, relieves, release, etc. The yoruba says that a young man slept with the sexual organ of his wife, he abused the part. Does he not know that before long, he will be sexually excited, again?

When you consider that Umar takes the 3 talaqs as a way to punish the ignorant man who made it, it is at the same time setting up a warming for those people in the community to not take such a rash, harsh action/position, against themselves, in the immediate run, all the while think because of the anger and lack of knowledge that it is the woman who feels the consequent, more or only.

Anger is a "mother", ok, "son" (Islam has restricted me, curbs my behavior, and ties my tongue). It makes people act terrible. No wonder Allah's Messenger advised a man who came to him seeking a great advice not to get angry. He repeated the same adviced to the man, as the man asked him to give him another, in 3 seccessive requests.

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Although very educative and erudite, and informative. But you good poeple have deviated from the actual thread's topic. It says Divorce and the Northerners, right? Thanks.

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@$Osisi: When you wake up, woman, read the four segments, above, starting from the 3 divorces at the same time. You will see that your premise is very wrong, and the correct position can be found in Quran, and ahadith. I am correct and you are not. By te way ahadith is only limited to the lifetime of the prophet (AS).

Umar bin Khattab's saying (RA) can never be deemed as an ahadith. He can relate the saying of Prophet Muhammmad (AS). That is an ahadith. His own statement can never be one.

Become muslim, woman and you and oga will study Islam together. Two heads are better than one.

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This ruling, as I have mentioned earlier, is one adopted by a number of renowned scholars, including Imam Ibn Taimiyah and Imam Ibn Al Qayyum. Earlier in this century, when the family law in several countries was enacted, scholars who were entrusted with the task of formulating the Islamic teachings in a well coded family law chose this ruling as the correct one and incorporated in that family law. It was then endorsed by the ruler. As such, it takes a much stronger effect.

From a totally different point of view, it is well known that in Islam, when a person says to his wife that she is divorced, intending a termination of his marriage to her, she begins the procedure of divorce [and her waiting period] immediately. She is, technically speaking, a divorcee, but she is observing a waiting period.

When he says the same thing to her a second time, whether immediately or a short while afterwards, his statement is no more than an idle talk because she is no longer his wife. How is it possible to divorce a woman who is not one's wife? That is certainly impossible and, therefore, the second and any subsequent utterances of the word of divorce have no significance whatsoever.

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The second point is that when there is more than one verdict in relation to a particular question, a person in my position, having to answer people's queries and explain what people should do in order to earn Allah's pleasure, should not leave his readers in a position of confusion. He must tell them the view that he believes to be the correct one, as supported by the weightier evidence. If any reader decides that he wants to take the other view, he is free to do so, but he should make his decision based on a proper understanding of the evidence relevant to the question on hand.

Thirdly, if the leader of a Muslim community chooses a verdict which is supported by good and weighty evidence and decides that this is the one to be implemented by the courts of law, he must be obeyed provided that he is only acting in the best interests of the community.

Those who consider that a divorce pronounced three times in succession, or in one session, or written down on the same piece of paper counts as three divorces rely on a ruling by Umar ibn Al-Khattab who, as a ruler of the Islamic state, enforced that piece of regulation. He justified it by saying: "People have precipitated something in which they have been given relief, it may be appropriate to enforce what they have precipitated."

So he enforced it. It is clear from this statement that Umar meant this as a punishment befitting the misbehavior of people who precipitate the irrevocability of divorce by divorcing their wives three times in succession. In other words, he was saying that "People want that irrevocability to take place immediately, then let them have it."

The companions of the Prophet who were alive at that time accepted Umar's view, because they felt that the punishment was appropriate. Later scholars have taken this as a unanimous verdict by the companions of the Prophet and include it in their books as the appropriate ruling. The fact that it was merely a punishment is the acknowledgment implied in Umar's own statement that people have already been granted a relief, but they still precipitate the ultimate result.

It is only appropriate to ask what that relief is. The answer is contained in the authentic Hadith included in this report by Abdullah ibn Abbas: Rukanah ibn Abdyazid divorced his wife three times in the same place, and then he was full of grief of having done so. Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) asked him: "How did you divorce her?" Rukanah said: "I have divorced her thrice." The Prophet asked him: "In one session?" He answered: "Yes." The Prophet said: "That is one divorce, and you may return to her if you wish." He revoked the divorce and remarried her."

This Hadith tells us that the Prophet himself gave the ruling that a divorce pronounced three times in a succession, or in one place counts only as one divorce. It is well known that a remarriage between a divorced couple can take place if the divorce is taking effect for the first or second time. Indeed, this was the ruling enforced by the Prophet throughout his life, and also enforced throughout the reign of Abu-Bakr and the early period of the reign of Umar. All companions of the Prophet who were alive in that period were unanimous in their acceptance of such a divorce as a single divorce

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In addition, if we are good believers and know that following the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) brings us the greatest reward of all, namely, that Allah is pleased with us, we should work hard to implement the Prophet's teachings in our lives. The Prophet has repeatedly emphasized that we must take good care of our women. To take good care of one's wife cannot be accomplished by abusing the law of divorce in order to get rid of her, or "cast her away" as you say.

In order to understand the difference, you should know that there are two types of divorce in Islam, one is called sunni, which means it is done according to what has been stipulated in the Sunnah; the other kind is called bid'i, which means it has been done in a different way contrary to the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). A sunni divorce means that a husband divorces his wife once at a time she is not menstruating or in a period of purity that no sexual intercourse were held. A bid'i divorce means the husband divorces his wife in a situation opposite to what has been stated in the sunni divorce, such as during menstruation.

Divorcing a wife thrice in one sitting is considered a bid'i divorce. That is why Muslim scholars have held different views on whether such divorce counts or not, and if it does count, does it count as revocable or irrevocable divorce. The majority of scholars said that a triple divorce counts as once, because it is reported that a man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and told him that he had divorced his wife three times. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told him that one of them had been considered and the rest been disregarded.

May I now turn to the other point of divorcing one's wife three times in the same session. I have explained several times that this is forbidden. When the Prophet heard that one of his companions did this, he expressed extreme anger and addressed the Muslim community, saying: "Will Allah's book be trifled with when I am still alive among you?" He described a divorce pronounced three times in the same session as "trifling with Allah's Book." There can be no greater emphasis that such an action is absolutely forbidden. Yet people do it all the time.

I am afraid that many are under the false impression that unless they pronounce the word of divorce three times together, the divorce does not take effect. Therefore, this comes as a result of ignorance. The question is whether what people do, pronouncing the word of divorce three times in quick succession, or in one session, or on the same day, counts three divorces as the four schools of thought say, or counts as one divorce, as I have explained on more than one occasion.

Before answering this question let me point out three very important facts:

First, a verdict may be accepted by a large number of highly prominent scholars, including, the founders of the four schools of thought, yet it may be supported by less weighty evidence than an opposite verdict which may be advocated by a smaller number of scholars. If we find that evidence supporting the view of the minority weightier, then we do not hesitate to accept that opinion, because no one, a scholar or others, of even the highest eminence, is immune from making a mistake or giving a judgment which relies on a misunderstanding, etc.

All our scholars agree that no opinion of any person is to be taken in preference to an authentic Hadith. Even the founders of the four schools of thought have expressed this view very clearly. Imam Al-Shaf'ie says: "If I say something and you find an authentic Hadith saying something different, then take the Hadith and leave my opinion aside."

The second point is that when

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5. Divorce: When a three-time divorce is binding

Question :

Many of us felt a great relief when we read your reply, explaining that a divorce pronounced three or more times in one session is counted as one revocable divorce.

1. The relief comes from the fact that it is common practice in our part of the world to pronounce divorce three times together, which has resulted in many a broken homes. However, it is mentioned by scholars that all four schools of thought are unanimous in considering a divorce pronounced three times as three divorces, which renders the break of the marriage irreparable. Please comment in detail.

2. It is common practice that a man casts his wife by pronouncing the word of divorce three times. It is often true that this irrevocable break up of the marriage has no reason other than the husband's desire for another woman or some such silly thing. In this way, he uses the law of divorce to satisfy his whims. Could you please explain what sort of protection is given to the woman to guard against such abuse of the law?

Answer :

Any law or regulation can be subject to abuse. Unless you appoint someone to watch over every person to ensure that he abides by the letter and spirit of the law, you cannot achieve a proper adherence to the law. But Islamic laws and regulations are given the support of the very real feeling which Islam implants in the mind of every one of its followers that Allah watches over him or her. When we realize that Allah knows our intentions and the real reasons behind our actions, we feel that we must always watch out. We must never abuse Allah's law or be guilty of any wrongdoing. As people who believe in the Oneness of Allah and in the message of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) we know that we have to face a detailed reckoning on the Day of Judgment, when we have to answer for every action that we may make in this life. It is the total sum of what we have done in life and the net result of our good actions set against our bad ones that determines our destiny in the life to come.

As believers we know that heaven and hell are a reality and that we must do our best to ensure our admission into heaven. Therefore, we must always guard against doing injustice to anyone, particularly those whom we are required to look after and to whom we are supposed to bring happiness, i.e. our wives and close relatives. The other safeguard is the fact that in a Muslim community, women are properly looked after either by their husbands or by male members of their families, such as their fathers, brothers or uncles.

In addition, if we are good believers

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1. Divorce, ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE

Question :

What are the reasons that a man can justify to divorce? Is it ok for him to divorce a woman identifying her mistakes?

Does the wife have the right to try to reconcile even if the husband does not want to, is there anything in Islam that requires that the husband must try to reconcile, or is everything completely up to him?

Answer :

Divorce is the most hated permissible thing in the sight of Allah. It dissolves families and deprives children the family atmosphere. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The most hateful permissible thing (al-Halal) in the sight of Allah is divorce." (Abu Dawud, Hadith 1863, Ibn Majah, Hadith 2008).

The spouses should avoid divorce as much as possible. If they have difficulties and problems, they should be patient and forbearing. They have to try to work out their differences and seek help from their relatives, friends or professional counselors.

Due to the sacredness of the marriage contract, Islam asks both the husband and the wife to keep and respect this bond. Thus, each partner in this sacred relationship must treat the other kindly and properly. A man must not divorce his wife to bring harm upon her, as this constitutes an act that demolishes this noble establishment, breaks the woman’s heart, and possibly separates the woman from her children without any reason. Thus, the separation between a man and his wife (without just reasons) was considered one of the major and grave sins, and one of the most beloved actions of Satan, as was narrated in a number of hadiths. This is, of course, a form of oppression which is totally forbidden in Islam.

In this regard, we recall the Prophet’s hadith that reads: "Iblis (Satan) places his throne upon water, then sends his groups. The closest to him are those who (tempt people to) commit the most grievous of sins (fitnah). One of them would approach him and say: I did such-and-such. Iblis would reply: You have done nothing. Another would approach and say: I did not leave him (a man) until I caused him to leave his wife and for them to be separated. Iblis would bring him close to his throne and would say: How good you are!”

And since the husband must never divorce his wife in order to bring harm upon her without reason, it is also forbidden for a woman to ask for a divorce without a sensible reason. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Any woman who asks her husband to divorce her without an acceptable reason will never smell the scent of Paradise.”

Given the above, it becomes crystal clear that neither the husband nor the wife has the right to resort to divorce without justification. Divorce should be the last resort after all attempts of reconciliation fail. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Let a believing man not dislike a believing woman. If something in her is displeasing to him, another trait may be pleasing.”

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@$Osisi: I wonder if I should divorce you, since a man man is divorced from his wife, with the very first pronouncement of "I divorce you/talaq", even before he made the second and the third pronouncement? Since the woman is no more is wife and has entered the period of waiting/iddah, even before he made the second and third pronouncements. Such a person can not sleep with that woman, even before he said talaq, the second and the third times? The first talaq has taking the opportunity to have sex between the two of them, except that they engage in Zina, even before the 2nd and 3rd pronouncements of talaq.

My dear, the second and third talaqs are just idle talks, and that is why I can divorce you, since you are not my wife. My talaq pronouncement on you now, will have the same exact effect as the second and third talaq of the man who had just pronounced the #1 talaq on his wife! Anyway, enjoy.

I wish Zainab is as wrong as you, in matters of religion. My wager with her would have been the thing I enjoyed so much. The lawyer girl is smart, because she does not lose argument with this lion. lol. Read the below entries, please.

1. Divorce, ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE

Question :

What are the reasons that a man can justify to divorce? Is it ok for him to divorce a woman identifying her mistakes?

Does the wife have the right to try to reconcile even if the husband does not want to, is there anything in Islam that requires that the husband must try to reconcile, or is everything completely up to him?

Answer :

Divorce is the most hated permissible thing in the sight of Allah. It dissolves families and deprives children the family atmosphere. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The most hateful permissible thing (al-Halal) in the sight of Allah is divorce." (Abu Dawud, Hadith 1863, Ibn Majah, Hadith 2008).

The spouses should avoid divorce as much as possible. If they have difficulties and problems, they should be patient and forbearing. They have to try to work out their differences and seek help from their relatives, friends or professional counselors.

Due to the sacredness of the marriage contract, Islam asks both the husband and the wife to keep and respect this bond. Thus, each partner in this sacred relationship must treat the other kindly and properly. A man must not divorce his wife to bring harm upon her, as this constitutes an act that demolishes this noble establishment, breaks the woman’s heart, and possibly separates the woman from her children without any reason. Thus, the separation between a man and his wife (without just reasons) was considered one of the major and grave sins, and one of the most beloved actions of Satan, as was narrated in a number of hadiths. This is, of course, a form of oppression which is totally forbidden in Islam.

In this regard, we recall the Prophet’s hadith that reads: "Iblis (Satan) places his throne upon water, then sends his groups. The closest to him are those who (tempt people to) commit the most grievous of sins (fitnah). One of them would approach him and say: I did such-and-such. Iblis would reply: You have done nothing. Another would approach and say: I did not leave him (a man) until I caused him to leave his wife and for them to be separated. Iblis would bring him close to his throne and would say: How good you are!”

And since the husband must never divorce his wife in order to bring harm upon her without reason, it is also forbidden for a woman to ask for a divorce without a sensible reason. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Any woman who asks her husband to divorce her without an acceptable reason will never smell the scent of Paradise.”

Given the above, it becomes crystal clear that neither the husband nor the wife has the right to resort to divorce without justification. Divorce should be the last resort after all attempts of reconciliation fail. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Let a believing man not dislike a believing woman. If something in her is displeasing to him, another trait may be pleasing.”

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@$Osisi: Allah says divorce one time about the wives of the prophet. Not three times. And by the way, because he was a prophet (AS), his case is a special circumstances: He can only marry a woman, once. If the woman is divorced from him, the woman can not be married by him, again. Read;

Surah Ahzah; 33:28

Muhsin Khan: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Say to your wives: If you desire the life of this world, and its glitter, Then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free in a handsome manner (divorce).

No more remarrying and no 3 talaqs either!

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$Osisi: Allah's Mesenger (AS) is the most knowledgeable about the Laws of Allah, among mankind. The proofs are overwhelming and I do not have to go back to it.

The four imams, each stated in the openingsof his methodology; If I give an opinion, and (you my reader) later on finds a statement given by the the noble Messenger (AS) about the subject matter. If the statement of the prophet is different from my opinion, which you have already accepted as a fact, then discard my opinion, and take the statement of the prophet. For if I have had that knowledge of what the prophet have said about the subject matter, it would have been exactly by statement, the basis of any explanation I would ever give on the subject matter.

$Osisi, unfortunately you fail to read the clear statement of the Website gotten material you posted. Just for a good logical exercise, is it possible to divorce a person Three times, without marrying that person three times, also? Is it not true that marriage must take place so that a possible divorce can occur?

Allah say to believers; Oh believers, come to My Prophet when he calls you, to what gives you life. But the believers are alive. The life that Allah talks about is spiritual life, since physical life is for everyone who is still alive. While spiritual life is for those who are true believers.

Allah also states that Muhammad does not say anything out of his own desire. All that he says at least in the matter of worship is what he has been commanded to tell mankind. As we know marriage is part of worship. It is reported that marriage is half of the deen. Reason is that it allows the natural fulfillment of procreation. It foster good community and its unity. It allows the legal sexual pleasure, which every one naturally crave. It bars anyone with good heart from participating in illegal sexual relationship. Inshort it helps and improves the general wellness of the one in wholesome marriage relationship.

If you therefore look at the above, you will have to come to the conclusion that the prophet asked the man who told him about his pronouncement of talaq, thrice to his wife, that he should consider it as a lonely One (1) talaq!

The man could have said that he said it a hundred times, it would have been just one. Or baby, are you saying that the 100 talaqs should be divided by 3, and we come up with 33 and 1/3 divorces? You make me laugh, woman.

Finally, and am not downing the arabs. But the Quran is revealed in Arabic land. And most of the problems approached by the Quran, the arabs served as the base(s) for them. So when alcoholic consumption was being forbidden, it was that an arab carried out a bad act which Allah used to bring about His plan to enact the abolition.

If anyone knows about Arab people, they are stubborn, hard hearted for the most part. They are typical semitic people. Take a look at the Jew for further testimony of what I mean. Allah says in Surah Toubah that the Arabs are for the most part are clearly disbelievers and evildoers. All did b not say all of them. The nature of mankind is not different in a general sense. today 3/4 of mankind are disbelievers because they are not muslims.

In Madina, during the time of Muhammad, a bedouin came to see him. There was no amount of gift (adiyah) that was given to this countryside/village/uncouth man that was enough. Such a person, if he was talking in anger could have pronounced 30 talaq on his wife. He will still not be satisfied and may still want to emphasis his anger by some more talaq. Most of the people who accepted Islam were the poor and unsoffistiacted. They had to be cultured, improved, made better, elevated in stature by Islam. These are the people who got divorced. And it is not surprising that that they made three Talaqs, instead of one. Allah's Messenger telling that they should consider it as just one knows better that you or me, or Abu Hanifah or anyone for that matter. Who is it that I follow? The prophet who received the Quran, of course.

By the way, we did not hear that the likes of Abu Bakr divorced his wife or wives. And the Prophet never divorced any of his wives. And from Surah Ahzab where Allah told his wives that if they want to be divorced, they will be given a divorce by Allah and His Messenger. Divorce as said once, not that you will be divorced, divorced and divorced! Duuh. (Am laughing).

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abuzola read this from an Islamic website.

http://theonlinemuslim.blogspot.com/2008/01/triple-talaq.html

so my dear,the argument is not if a divorce shoukd take place but if it is one divorce or regarded as 3 divorces

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U go kill me with lafta, go get a google and read it again,

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You need a hadith to back up the Islamic schools of thought.

why don't you ask your Imam

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Your wikipaedia did not back it with ayah or hadith and u just bebeto come post mere words without any proof, u try oo

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U posted a fiction and not a fact, ur eyes were closed when a hadith did justice to it earlier on abi ?

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Don't mind him, maybe his own Islam is different.

He needs to read this

Olabs tell your Islamic schools of thought that they are wrong abi you don change to Shia sect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_talaq

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you've moved away from the topic we were discussing

I'm smart you know

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@$Osisi: You will see that I am not lying. And Lailah can say what she wants. I pray that she comes back to Islam. Right now, she has no authority to give Islamic opinions. Islam is neither an arab religion nor any one from any region can claim exclusivity of it! Her former husband was not practicing Islam as muslims should either. I am quoting her expressed opinions. Just because she is an arab does not qualify her in the least. And being in Islam for a longer period of time does not make a person knowledgeable. Allah impact knowledge, a gift, a mercy, a means of elevation from Him.

2:230

Muhsin Khan: And if he has divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she has married another husband. Then, if the other husband divorces her, it is no sin on both of them that they reunite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. These are the limits of Allah, which He makes plain for the people who have knowledge.

2:231

Muhsin Khan: And when you have divorced women and they have fulfilled the term of their prescribed period, either take them back on reasonable basis or set them free on reasonable basis. But do not take them back to hurt them, and whoever does that, then he has wronged himself. And treat not the Verses (Laws) of Allah as a jest, but remember Allah's Favours on you (i.e. Islam), and that which He has sent down to you of the Book (i.e. the Quran) and Al-Hikmah (the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways - Islamic jurisprudence, etc.) whereby He instructs you. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything.

2:232

Muhsin Khan: And when you have divorced women and they have fulfilled the term of their prescribed period, do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands, if they mutually agree on reasonable basis. This (instruction) is an admonition for him among you who believes in Allah and the Last Day. That is more virtuous and purer for you. Allah knows and you know not.

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@$Osisi: Woman, please speak the truth. You can read english very well. A casual read of 2;229 tells me that the "a divorce is permissable twice", followed by "and after that" tell me that one can divorce his wife, two times, before the "and after that" part becomes a thing that one should pay a particular attention to.

What follows should also tell you, since what i got from it is that "the husbands and wife should either struggle to hold on to their marriage, until death occurs to one or both of them," or they realise that it is no use being together, since they have not learnt, in both successive marriages to one another, since they are now in the second round of divorce!"

Man is warned to refrain from asking to take back any part or portion of the "Dowry!"

In this verse the third and final divorce is not even mentioned. That you will find expressed in verse 2;230, which is next to what you quoted. A simple tilt of your face downward would have helped you to be as thorough in your research and inference(s), as i had hoped.

Before I wrote my last entry, I called a Muslim lawyer to simply ask him the legislations/jurispudence on Islamic divorce and the pronouncement of "Talaq; I divorce you". Mind you I have lived my life as a muslim. And I have in the past 15 years or so, spent and continue to spend time, on Islamic materials, lectures, dialogues, etc. All of these are really channelled to "my better understanding of my religious duties."

Verse 2;230 lead us a very direct statement that after the third divorce, there is no involvement of the man in her life, as regarding her next marriage, except that she observe the waiting period, of what may be called the first trimester.

What is it that you don't get in it?

My dear $Osisi, if a man is angry and enraged (in the same degree that some people will have to go hit a punching bag just to let off team) and the Muslim man says to his wife " I divorce you 50 times,"could you inform me how many divorce(s) that will amount to? Please tell me from the best of your knowledge, oh woman!

In response to the adith, you will see that the answer was that if they say it thrice, or even less or more, to end a divorce, the first divorce or the second divorce, it does not matter, the moment the first pronouncement is made, it is done. Saying it the second, the third time, etc is not going to make it any final than what it is already. When he makes this statement to end the third marriage, meaning the final divorce, so that somebody else can now marry this woman, without a chance (according to Sharia that the husband that has just divorced her can marry her for the fourth time) for the divorcing man to keep her any longer, how many times should he have to say it before it becomes effective?

Lets just look at your premise for a moment and see how weak it is; if a divorce pronouncement is only effective by the third I divorce you, what happens to a man who says it let us say one time or almost on the edge, two times and do not reach out to the third time saying it? Is he still married or not? What if this man is hot like "bird seed pepper: and by so doing is always divorcing this woman, his wife by saying I divorce you say once? How many times can he say it before their marriage actually be officially over the very first time, still allowing them to have a two time possible remarrying?

If he says I divorce you like a clock, every six month, whats your timeline for their actual first divorce? Fortunately, Islam has rules and it is not a joke and it is not a way people can come up with their own idea, like say in Christianity or others. Below I will post the verse 2;230 of baqarah for your enjoyment.

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just leave olabs to his usual denial and lying. Even a day old baby knows the inhuman norms prevalent in islam.

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while the Koran says you can only say it twice and then a waiting period before pronouncing it a third time to make the divorce final.

002.229

YUSUFALI: A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (Men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by Allah; so do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (Themselves as well as others).

PICKTHAL: Divorce must be pronounced twice and then (a woman) must be retained in honour or released in kindness. And it is not lawful for you that ye take from women aught of that which ye have given them; except (in the case) when both fear that they may not be able to keep within the limits (imposed by) Allah. And if ye fear that they may not be able to keep the limits of Allah, in that case it is no sin for either of them if the woman ransom herself. These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Transgress them not. For whoso transgresseth Allah's limits: such are wrong-doers.

SHAKIR: Divorce may be (pronounced) twice, then keep (them) in good fellowship or let (them) go with kindness; and it is not lawful for you to take any part of what you have given them, unless both fear that they cannot keep within the limits of Allah; then if you fear that they cannot keep within the limits of Allah, there is no blame on them for what she gives up to become free thereby. These are the limits of Allah, so do not exceed them and whoever exceeds the limits of Allah these it is that are the unjust.

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This is an authentic hadith to that effect

Book 009, Number 3493:

Abu al-Sahba' said to Ibn 'Abbas: Enlighten us with your information whether the three divorces (pronounced at one and the same time) were not treated as one during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr. He said: It was in fact so, but when during the caliphate of 'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) people began to pronounce divorce frequently, he allowed them to do so (to treat pronouncements of three divorces in a single breath as one).

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olabs ,stop lying.

Even Leilah on this forum said her husband divorced her with a triple talaq

why are you being deceptive

A Muslim man can divorce his wife by saying

I divorce you

I divorce you

I divorce you

and you know it's true

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@Noetic2: There is no 3 times divorce pronouncement. Only ignorant muslims and people like you, the antimuslim/antiIslamic believe this unsubstantiative assumption.

And by the way, the wife can initiate the divorce for sound variety of reasons. Have you heard about "Kulah?"

A man can not divorce a woman for flimsy excuse(s), either. Allah says in Surah Nisaa (from verse 20 to about 30, or so speak about women and men and divorce(s)). By the way Allah says about men; will you divorce your wife because of some (unsound reason(s))? Maybe Allah wishes to bless you through that wife, you are intending to divorce for (lousy and unfounded and unmerciful reason.

Tell me in your Bible where divorce is frowned upon, with proper reasoning. I am not talking about the dont do it and we already see a ton of it happening, daily. It reminds me of done do boyfriend/girlfriend and unmarried sexual thing, and just a a few people listen!

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This is one islamic anti-women postulation I really detest. It has no place in the 21st century. . . . .divorcing a woman by mouth, by simply stating it three times. . . , very antediluvian. . . . it has no place amongst humans.

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Allah says in the Quran that believers shoud enter Islam, fully. This means all the nuance and cultural and tribal opinions, traditional deeds and fetishes that are incompartable to Quran and Sunna/Hadith should be discarded. A true believer will adopt Islamic "culture." The culture of islam, is neither arabic, or any other group's culture. It is a blend of all that is good in mankind and there is no direct or indirect opposition with Islam, and it totally agrees with all aspects of goodliness, which is in truth Islam.

Since this religion is focus singly to the worship of Allah in the way of Muhammad (AS), using Quran as our only guide, with explanation and example through hadith and sunna, it is foundamentally wrong for a 3 pronouncements of "I divorce you" in a single occasion to mean that you have divorced your spouse 3 times. What happens f you say it, 10 times in this single occasion? Would you have divorced her 10 times, too?

To be able to divorce your wife at all, you have to be married to her in the first place. Marriage most definitely comes before divorce. To divorce her three times in one single occasion, is impossible. What is possible however is a single divorce, in any single occasin. You could have said it 1 time, or 2 or the 3 times in question, or even more times, say 4 or 5 or 6 and even more. If it is said in one occasion or a day or period, before remarrying her again, it is still one single divorce.

If their marriage to each other had never experienced a previous divorce, the pronouncement of devorce by the husband, regardless of how many times it is said, before they remarry again, it all stand for the first time divorce between them. The husband and wife should not sleep with each other, until they reconcile. The time of waiting between marriages is known as Iddah (Iddat). The period of iddah is (90 days or 3 moon cycles). If they reconcile within the period of iddah, the husband does not have to pay dowry, since he is the only man who is permitted to have her in marriage, still.

There coming back together in reconciliation is the beginning of a new marriage, say the second marriage to each other. If something else brings up a situation where the condition calls for a new pronouncement round of "I divorce you," even if it is said a trillion times before they come back and reconcile again as husband and wife, it will be a single divorce, but a second time that they are divorcing each other. It is not possible that a man and a woman marries and divorces a trillion times and for the woman still remain in the age of "marriage."

Finally, if they come back again within the period of iddah and become husband and wife, it will be the third time that they are marrying each other. It is also the last time that they can marry each other without the woman marrying another man. Now if the man after divorcing the woman twice and remarrying her twice, making the third time going on the marrying cycle, he should know by then that that wa his last chance alone with her without having somebody to challengehim on her.

He had dock paying dowry again and the third time by seeking reconciliation with the two consecutive periods of iddah. The woman had accepted him and returned to him in marriage. If this knuckle head of a husband have not learnt that there is no use in divorcing her, since he always wanted her back, anyways, then it is no wonder that Allah has put a limit to how many times a man can hold exclusivity of seeking the hand of a woman in marriage to 3, before the equation allows another man to have a chance to seek her in marriage, without the foolish husband who is now former husband" having no chance to stop the intention of this man.

The third divorce means there had been ends to 3 consecutives marriages without any other man marrying her in the cycles of relationship between them as husband and wife. If the period of iddah was over in any of the endings of marriages after the pronouncements of the "I divorce you", statements the husband will have to start all over again to marry the woman, including giving her dowry, and of course the nika ceremony.

Now after the end of the third marriage by the pronouncement of the divorce statement, the wife will only wait for the period of iddah before she entertains and hopefully accepts marriage from a new husband altogether. The old husband is not allowed to marry her consecutively for the fourth time without any man becoming her husband. The legality of such marriage to a new husband, is that the old husband can not arrange for a man to marry her, only to fulfill the ruling on marriage and divorce, and hoping that he will divorce her without consumating the marriage and as soon as he wishes. Any such arrangement is going against the rule sets by Allah. It is a sinful thing, a sign of weak iman, a disobedience.

Marriage to a new husband must be the mutual willingness of the ex-wife and the new suitor. Such a marriage must follow all the laws and rules that marriage must follow. That includes sex, possibility of divorce and remarrying within the period of iddah, to the same full 3 times in a row, as long as the remarrying is within the period of Iddah. If the period is over before the husband asked his wife to come back, then the first husband can approach her. So do other men. But when you see a muslim approach a woman, and you approach her and she says she is talking to the first man, it is your duty in islam to leave her alone, until you are informed that she is not being intended.

Unfortunately, sound knowledge is very expensive and time consuming. Those people who make up things that are mostly cultural and try to marry it into Islam, are wrong, if Islam's jurispudence on such a matter in question is clear and known. If it is not known because of lack of complete knowledge of the issue/topic, please know that a good understanding of three times divorced means three times married prior to the third time divorce. What agrees with a pure heart, in means, process and in ending is Islamic. There is no way something shaddy can occur in a pure Islamic protocol. Read your Quran and Hadith, again and observe the Sunnah.

Will a man spend 3 times the amount of time he normally uses in the shower and announces that the particular shower is three showers just because of the amount of time? I have a Fulani from Mauritania who divorced his wife. He was telling me what his "sheik" in the home country told him, since he said something in Pular meaning "I give you back your neck."

The sheik told him that the saying amounts to three divorces. My frined is a Ph D. candidate in New York City. I was shocked at the statement, how a statement said to end a first marriage will have the gravity of ending other two marriages that have not happened, yet?How could this so called sheik make such an unsubstantiate statement, and the Ph. D. candidate accepting it as a fact?

This is the same with what you said the hausas have. Knowledge is with Allah alone. And those Who He loves see and understand. If a man were to say I divoced you 500 times because of his anger with his wife, will it mean that he had been married 500 times and then divoced 500 times?

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