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Do You Think Prayer/praying Is Overated?

I believe in God but that's as far as it goes, I mean people just expect God to clean up their Poo I've heard people pray for promotions but are unwilling to work for it. They pray to see a revival in their marriage but are unwilling to compromise and the list goes on. I just don't get it, are people really that silly?

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Hehe. It's not as cute as it sounds. It's very serious

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Oh Vesc,sweetie, you're in love? That is so wonderful! She must be tremendous.I'm so happy, sweetie. Yes, I'll email you. Awwwwwww.

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Arghh. silly unreliable MTN network signals interrupted my monologue. Now I've lost my mojo. I think it's without logic to think that God exists. But it's without even more logic to disbelieve in God.

Anyways I've decided that u're too cool to remain a figment of my imagination, Mad_Max.

talktoluigi@gmail.com. Indulge me. Pretty please with sugar on top. This's clandestine enough. I'm waiting. I have so much to ask you! About love & stuff.

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prayer as i said is just asking for help for things that are beyond your control mostly, if there is a doctor that will perform treat your mum and make her recover from her illness immediately i know you will take her to him and let him treat her. . . .if you read the bible or the koran there are places where the biblegod and Allah specifically said that they will heal does who call on their names when they are sick. but is that what you see happening? if you mum gets better you will give your god the credit but what if she doesn't (i am just giving an example here, i hope she gets better) you will still explain it away and provide an excuse for your god for not healing her, either way prayer answers nothing and your god gets all the credit in all cases whether you get what you want or not. . . . . it is all in the mind. . . this apply to all religions. . . .

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Miracles happen. Prayers get answered. But regular everyday stuff happen too. I mean, hell, you don't break down and cry at God's awesomeness when you put on a TV and the thing actually comes on. Strange poo is statistically bound to happen. That doesn't make it a miracle. In conclusion, it's so cool to be an atheist. It saves you some trouble, but only if you can be a true atheist. Atheist that argue are actually seeking out for answers.

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Or take for example Mazaje's rain scenario. A 'godly' bloke prays for rain. At the same nanosecond a shaman is handling business in the bush somewhere invoking some rain god. A plethora of different faithfuls praying for the same thing. Then when rain falls, as it inevitably will, each & everyone takes credit that his god & his prayers to said god was responsible. What bollocks. Prayers get answered & miracles happen but not all the freaking time

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Or take for example Mazaje's rain scenario. A 'godly' bloke prays for rain. At the same nanosecond a shaman is handling business in the bush somewhere invoking some rain god. A plethora of different faithfuls praying for the same thing. Then when rain falls, as it inevitably will, each & everyone takes credit that his god & his prayers to said god was responsible. What bollocks. Prayers get answered & miracles happen but not all the freaking time

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Miracles happened times past both to validate the prophets and to serve specific purposes, God's existence not being the least of them. What I can't stand is bullshit. Believe it or not it's possible to be God's sychophant. How do explain some hypothetical dude who prays before an interview and upon subsequently getting the job proceeds to do a thanksgiving. Is it really so far fetched that he was most qualified or he fit a profile.

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I realise I'm digressing. I'm so in love it must creep in

Ahem. Lemme stop talking as a muslim & start as a believer in God. First I don't believe God has the ability to change. He doesn't change. His rules may, but He doesn't. There's no way He'll condone & encourage something & ban it outright a few millenia after. God wants to be recognised & acknowledged. He is not without drama for He could simply reveal himself but what's the fun in that?

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I'm posting from a phone. Forgive a dude.

CONTINUED.

I'm in love with a christian woman 5yrs older. Religion is a problem for her. A little for me, but mostly it's shrouded in culture. People just blame it on religion. Muhammad fell in love with a woman 15 yrs older. But who does that nowadays? People brand conflicts as religious warfare where they are really political. Arabs can't stand Israelis & vice versa. It's so obvious it hurts.

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It's been forever since I've read a thread from beginning to end. I've studied both major religions. I'm a muslim cuz I find the connection more direct and simpler. Also cuz I've sought out knowledge instead of allowing myself to be fed it. Before I go on, Max and Mazaje, y'all make interesting presumptions. Culture has too much an influence on religion. Where there's no out and out tampering, there'll be misinterpretations. To be continued

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I like your sincererity. . . . people's beliefs are all a part their culture and environment. . . . most of the christains i know here in finland believe in evolution because of the level of education and the culture with which they grow up with, but most of the christians in nigeria do not believe in evolution because of the culture, tradition and level of awareness that exist in nigeria. the christians here do not believe in miracles like the christians in nigeria do, if a pastor tells people in his church that he travelled for more 300km in his car on an empty thank or had the ability to make an adult person grow taller because he needed to see him speak no body will ever go to his church again, but we have millions in nigeria that attend RCCG despite pastor adeboye saying that he travelled over 300km on an empty tank. and made a person grow taller just because he wanted to see him speak because nigrerians have been brought up with the belief of not asking questions and beling in things even if they do not make sense, most especially if they are being told by any constituted authority. the christians in here in finland and the christians in nigeria all believe in jesus but all of them relate to jesus the way that that is acceptable to their culture, traditions and evironment. . .you don't get to hear about demons, witches and wizards here in finland amongst the christians here, people don't blame witches and wizards for their misfortunes here at all, in fact most of the christians here do not believe in witches, demons, gloom and doom, but in nigeria because of the backwardness, sheer ignorance, high level of illiteracy and total decay of the system most people have to believe in witches, wizards, demons and blame their misfortunes on them. i once attended church here to meet up with a friend and the message is nothing compared to what is obtainable in nigeria, just some simple words of advice from the bible and some simple references to the way of life that is acceptable in finaland and that was it, but in nigeria all you hear is money, prosperity, demons, witches, moslems(depending on which part of nigeria you live in), end of the world, money, more money, more more money, gloom and doom. . . . the culture and ethics of every society is what makes their beliefs and religion. the islam that is practiced in pakistan is not the same with the one that is practiced in norway or france. . . .

human's wrote the bible, the koran, the hindu text and all the books refelcts their minds, cultures and level of thought in all their sayings. if you look at the old testament you will see a VERY great evolution has taken place with the new testament. the old testament god grew with humanity, changed his ethics and behaviour completely. in the old testament we have god sewing cloths for people, eating or tasting their scarifice, living with people inside a box, advocating sagregation, slaverly, molest, wars, accepting human scarifice, giving out very tribal laws and commandements etc. . . .the old testament god told people to share and enjoy the booty of war, that is because that is how the people do their things back then, when you fight war you take away booty, loot and steal the properies of your enemies that is why we have the old testament good avocating the same thing, the present day israeli defence forces can not go into gaza or lebanon when fighting a war with them and loot their properties because our moral standard now is above that of the time of moses, slavery was advocated by the bible god because it was acceptable by the people so their god has to reflect their way of life. . . .if you read the old testament  thunderstorms, earthquakes, plagues, eclipses and floods were all attributed to the anger or punishment of god because the people knew nothin about them. . . . we now know that all things things have very natural explanations hence very little people in the civilized world believe that natural disasters are a punishment from any god. . . .every god represents the hearts and minds of the people that created him/her, the new testament writers created a god that was supposed to be universally acceptable out of the old tstament god, hence the continious revision and editing of the bible to accomodate most cultures and ways of life of the people lving in the world. 

the old testament god is the god of the jews alone, he punishes people for marrying outside the jewish tribe. . . . the jews created their god hence you have him advocating their way of life and traditions. . . . zeus was created by the greeks and i believe that if you follow his teachings you will see that it reflects the culture and traditions of the greeks. . . . .all the ancient eygptian gods reflected the culture and traditions of the ancient egyptians in all their comamandements. . . . . The god of the old testament was the god of the jews only he even lived with them in a wooden box according to the bible. . . . .Allah started of as the god of the arabs before he was later transformed into a universal god, arabic is still the only language he understands. . . . . .

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Ah. Now I understand you a little better. Okay.

Well, you can't take the spirit to the lab for empirical testing. Personal experience is all there is,all there can be. You want some sort of 'communal experience' where we relate to God as a group or tribe or country? You'll find that more convincing? I can't answer for muslims that cry on reading the Koran! Though I might be able to relate if I knew which part of the koran made them  cry.How is my own experience 'better' than theirs? I'm not sure there's a basis for comparison or 'rating' of spiritual experiences on some Good, Better,Best scale. I think what you're saying is, which is the genuine experience, since we hold different beliefs?How can I possibly know that? 

As for the Bible you have to remember human beings wrote it. And it was revised and edited many times,all sorts of stuff were added to it.Unintended translation errors also abound. The teaching about hell I find a bit confusing.'Gehenna' or hell is a place where the wicked are punished in fires that burn day and night and never ends. But Gehenna also happens to be an actual place on the outskirts of Israel at the time, a huge refuse dump where fires were kept burning day and night, where refuse and the bodies of animals and dead criminals were thrown,where the 'worm quencheth not'. Until one actually gets something close to the original,untainted material I see no point in arguing scripture I didn't write, and verses that might be the true work of the original author, or something a translator or editor added because it conformed to his ideas of right and wrong and justice and punishment.

They say God is a God of the Jews only?Jews wrote most of the bible, and their ideas'll naturally be influenced by their environment and history and culture, and the prevalent attitudes of their day. I don't think God focused on the Jews and ignored the rest of humanity. Perhaps if one were to compare the religious histories of most tribes some picture might emerge.  I find the story of Akhnenaten fascinating. I first came across him in a book on Moses by Freud and read up on him . He was an Egyptian pharaoh in antiquity who encountered a 'being of great brightness', so bright he named him 'Aten' So profound was their encounter that he changed his own name to reflect this god's. He built a new capital, and named the city after the 'Bright Being'. He was consumed with zeal for this being and wrote verse upon verse about him, which read exactly like old testament psalms and hymms. At first he tried to reconcile Aten with the other Egyptian gods, but he soon earned the enmity of the priests of other Egyptian gods by declaring Aten the 'supreme being' and 'only true god', and insisting other gods in Egypt must go. Sound familiar?

Perhaps he was partial to them but I don't think God was a 'God of the Jews only'.

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i thought jesus said that all you need is to believe and once you have faith anything you ask for will be answered through prayers? faith is the only thing required. . . .

except that your own interpretation sounds contrary to what the bible is saying. . . .the biblegod clearly does not love everybody. . . .moslems will feel offended if you tell them that jesus is the one that answers their prayers. . . . .but they still have personal experinces and testimonies of answered prayers. . . . . .

when you tell christians that you do not believe in their god the disparage, ridicule and treat you badly, i have had so many experiences so why not ridicule and show them how inconsistent their arguments and beliefs are. . . . .

personal experience again. there are million of muslims out there that read the koran and cry bitterly because when the read the koran what they see is who they really are, to them there is no truth and reality that does not exist in the koran every thing the see happening in the world and life in general they see it in the koran. . . i have seen many people read the koran and cry some publicly. . . . because of the "truth" and "reality" they see in it. . .how is your own experience better than theirs?

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Perhaps.

Perhaps an illusory 'God' takes the credit for answered prayer, and we fabricate excuses when there's no response.

Maybe it's all in the mind.

And maybe there's a real God who does answer prayer.

That everyone's prayer cannot be answered isn't surprising; there are millions of people on the planet with their own agendas. And one man's answered prayer might translate into another's request-refusal. Couple that with the fact that most of us are self-centred, with most of our praying focusing on ourselves and our needs virtually ALL the time. We might quickly mumble some insincere prayer for others, to feel more Christian. But within moments we're happy to be back on familiar ground,praying for ourselves.If God chooses to not take part in our self-adulation, who's to blame him? I don't know how prayer works but I have experienced some things in the past few months and know for a fact that God exists. Two incidents I still find incredible,but won't mention them.Men may have added to the Bible but they didn't add everything. And the Bible does say God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. If you seek him, you will find.

I don't care about who answers the prayers of muslims and Hindis. I think God loves ALL his creation and has abandoned none.That's not for me to worry about. He will save many,not just some narrow, self-righteous fraction of humanity. He is more than able to save, and he's not bound to act according to our standards of justice and our interpretations of the Bible. Who he saves, how he saves, who he judges, how he judges are, who he answers,how he answers are entirely up to him. Go and ask him yourself if you have questions about those.

I'm surprised at how presumptious many atheists are. You don't believe in God but have somehow come to believe Christians owe you explanations for everything. They owe you no such thing. I find it interesting that, on a Christian forum, there are few threads where they can unite and fellowship in peace. Naw, their energies are taken up fighting and debating and explaining and defending and apologising for their beliefs.

Interesting.

You know something? I read a passage in John and was moved to tears at how compassionate Christ is. The guy is too cool for this world. After a while I read the same passage,as if I were an atheist. The same passage I'd cried over seemed unconvincing,because I was looking for a lie. I spent a long time wondering about that, and had to conclude that, when you read the Bible, what you see is who you are.

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prayer can be used to account for literally anything in exactly the same way. . . .for example, a farmer who prays to the biblegod for rain to help his drought-stricken crops. suppose it then rains our happy farmer explains this as the act of god in response to a prayer. but suppose it doesn’t rain. the same farmer will explains this as god's having had other reasons for withholding rain. . . . . either way, the god hypothesis of answering prayers seems to do no real explanatory work. it can be used to account for literally anything in exactly the same way.

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prayer, for the most part, is basically asking for help. plain and simple in some cases it basically showing appreciation for things you have acquired. the reason people pray (ask for help) in times of duress is the same reason why people ask for help any time they need it. whether it be a little duress, or a lot of duress, our instinct is to ask for help. we are social people. our brains learn early that when you ask for help, you generally get help, and when you don't ask for help, you generally don't get it. when your computer goes out, do you pray for it to be fixed or call the computer guy to fix it for you? when your car won't start, do you pray for it to start or call a mechanic to help you? if you did nothing but pray for your computer to work or your car to be fixed, they would never get fixed. when faced with a situation where you need help, but no other person on the planet can likely help you, you still have the instinct to ask for help, because you have learned throughout your life, that this is the appropriate thing to do when you need help. that instinct does not change simply because the situation is more pressing. your instinct to ask for help is still there. so what options does the brain have? none. your instinct is STILL to say, "help me, please." even though you KNOW there is nothing out there to help you. over the millenia, different cultures have named (personified) the invisible helpers. some used to say, "help me, zeus." some used to say, "help me, sango." while others will say "help me Allah" the list goes on and on. you just say, "help me, god or jesus." and he helps you out just as much as sango, Allah or zeus would. its all in the mind. . . . . .

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whats the point of praying when it is written in the bible that the biblegod has predestined everything according to his will?

Praying is like a rocking chair - it will give you something to do, but it won't get you anywhere.

-Gypsy Rose Lee

Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way. So I stole one and asked him to forgive me.

-Emo Philips

Prayer, among sane people, has never superseded practical efforts to secure the desired end.

-George Santayana

The inventor of the plow did more good than the maker of the first rosary, because, say what you will, plowing is better than praying.

-Robert Ingersoll

The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray.

-Robert Ingersoll

Labor is the only prayer that nature answers; it is the only prayer that deserves an answer; good, honest, noble work.

-Robert Ingersoll

It may be that ministers really think that their prayers do good, and it may be that frogs imagine that their croaking brings spring.

-Robert Ingersoll

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This is God`s divine purpose for man, broken down to His plan for every individual which He states in Jer 29:11 to be a good plan.

When u become a born-again Christian, it is pertinent u dont attempt to drag God along with ur plans and ambitions, but to allow Him to lead the way.

Ask Him of what the future holds, He is faithful enough to show you. that way u dont spend endless time praying over nothing, cos u know where the Father is taking u. I m speaking out of experience.

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What is the will of God?

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our pastors today have actually forgotten that there is something called the will of GOD.

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Who knows?

But you can see it's grossly abused. You come across books and teachings that issue formulas for 'manipulating' God into giving what you want. Like God doesn't want to give you these stuff and you have to work hard to overcome his resistance.

Prayer seems to work, though. There was something I badly wanted for five years. I can't overstate how much I wanted this 'thing'. One morning in February I was overcome with profound despair and cried. Well, you know how only God is supposed to be able to read your thoughts? I thought a prayer. I don't even know if it qualifies as one. I just thought:

You know how badly I want this. Don't make wait. Don't draw this out. If you're really there and you really care, let me have this TODAY.

That was all. I went about my day, terribly unhappy .

By 3 PM  that afternoon I HAD THAT VERY THING.

I was devastated, of course. Why, of the two thousand days I'd been longing for this, did I get get it on the day I asked? Why not the next day, or the next month or the next year?

Prayer seems to work, as long as we're not being silly about it. I get what you mean about people sitting pretty and waiting for what they want to be handed to them, though. You're supposed to work and strive for what you want.

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If God went to sleep on the seventh day and Christ is worshipped on Sunday then who are they (Sunday churchgoers) praying to? Because God is sleeping, unless you are trying to wake him up and serve him on his day of sleeping . . . God worked a whole six days and now on Sunday morning he’s laying in his bed. This is how he makes this sound. . . . God is sitting in his chair, or laying in his bed he goes to sleep on Sunday morning, and you go to church on Sunday morning and go, “oh God, oh God, oh God.” Then you’re wondering why your prayers are not being answered. The reason why your prayers are not being answered is quite simple; because God sleeps on Sunday. You have to change the day ; try Wednesday when God is up working. Have you ever tried to disturb your mother and father when they were working (or sleeping)?.You don’t thank God for health and the gifts that you have. You’re in church on Sunday begging for more stuff.

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Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.

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The bible is very clear about how prayer is supposed to work in mark 11:24 Jesus promises:"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (big lie)

in john chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, jesus tells just how easy prayer can be

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it" (another big lie)

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No it is not and can never be overrated but it can be misused

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