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Does Christianity Support Immorality And Pacifism?

Christianity supports Immorality and Injustice.

I have studied a lot of christian doctrines, and I can now confirm that while christians are told to avoid immorality in their holy scriptures, they also are taught to ignore restitution for such sins and instead believe in a most fraudulent doctrine of total atonement of sin by believing in the grace the blood of Jesus brings to them. Thus, according to christianity, just believing in Jesus redeems you, and you will enter heaven even if you commit the most heinous crimes.

I will like other people to confirm that my views about christianity are correct, and ask christians themselves to state the position of christianity on morality, and if retialation is a sin.

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@babyosis

I am not asking you to comment on any movie,just that doctrine of forgiving a witch that killed 70 innocent lives and to whom heaven beckons.

What a sicko doctrine!!

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lordimpaq,you are always so cool with a great composure,never allowing the utterances from these Muslims get to you.

That is a great virtue my brother.

I am also cool and calculated for the most part(hope I'm not blowing my own trumpet) but sometimes it's hard not to dish it right back with Koranic verses supporting when they start misquoting scriptures or twisting Christianity and it's teachings.

How can anyone who has neither read the scriptures nor tasted the peace and assurance we have from salvation attempt to analyze or criticize it.

It's almost like being in Lagos and telling me you're sure it must be snowing in New York by just looking at the skies.

Let's keep on trusting my brother, because He who has promised will surely do it.

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alright lordimpaq,I'll take adeep breathe and count to twenty.

one,two,three,zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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jagunlabi ,you expect us to comment on a film we did not watch?

Do you think we are that silly?

Read all the previous discuss and get a clue of the stock of people you're dealing with if not we are sending Gwaine,davidylan and 4malik your way not to talk of lioness who'll just devour you like a salah ram portion. aaaaarrrrrrhhhhhhhh.

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that is from a shallow point of view,

i'm sure you did not even watch the entire movie, is that wat u read at the back of the video case,

shame, before u start making insinuations i advise u check properly,

its obvious that u only want derogatory answers from the christians which further shows your aversion towards the christian faith,

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Perhaps sleeping all the while you thought you were on earth, shébi?

Precisely, because it's the yada-yada noise you've been making on the Forum.

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Is never my intention to wake any sleeping dog & if i'd done that it was never my intention.

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Let sleeping dogs lie, i believe she apologised in her last post. That was obviously said in the heat of the moment and not meant to be taken literarily

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bia yusuf,why are pouring petrol on a dying fire?

let us leave a sleeping lioness alone.

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Lioness, u mean if there are no law or resrtiction here u'll ve continue rolling ur tongue till infinity just b'cos ple ve diff believe from urs. Don't think u shd learn to react to ple's opinion even in an envaroment where there is no law or immediate penalty.I believe christ never did that.

Pls.how would u ve reacted or fell if such statement was directed to ur Dad?

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Lionessssssss!!!!!!!!

your language is chasing some of us away.

a beg e don do

you don't want me to send you to your room do you?

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@m4malik

There is no need to wellcome  me back on earth if i was here all the while. And to the rest of your comments blah blah blah,

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and that's if there are any left.

Do you think Mo would like to share?

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Click on the previous site I posted and use any of the numbers below to view the wonderful world of women in the Islamic world.Check out #817,female suicide bombers farewell.

Clips that match: 'Women'

#1163 - Al-Jazeera TV News Presenter and an Egyptian Women's Magazine Editor-in-Chief Debate the Veil

LBC (Lebanon) - 5/28/2006 - 00:05:00

#1154 - Mufti of Egypt Sheik Ali Gum'a: Wife-Beating Is Permitted by Islam in Muslim Countries, but Is Forbidden in the West

Al-Risala TV (Saudi Arabia/Kuwait) - 5/26/2006 - 00:01:30

#1155 - Saudi Author Zaynab Hifni Talks about Women, Sex, and Taboos in Saudi Society

Al-Arabiya TV (Dubai) - 5/19/2006 - 00:06:22

#1104 - Saudi Author Dr. Muhammad Al-'Arifi on Show Produced by Saudi Ministry of Religious Endowments: Women in the West Marry Dogs and Donkeys; 54% of Danish Women Do Not Know Who Fathered Their Babies

Al-Risala TV (Saudi Arabia/Kuwait) - 4/6/2006 - 00:01:39

#1090 - Egyptian Experts on Islamic Religious Law Debate Female Circumcision

Al-Rai TV (Kuwait) - 3/28/2006 - 00:06:08

#1074 - Sheik Yousuf Al-Qaradhawi's Conditions for Muslim Men Who Want to Marry Christian and Jewish Women in the West

Qatar TV - 3/12/2006 - 00:03:59

#1018 - Camelia Sadat, Daughter of Late Egyptian President, Tells of Marriage at the Age of 12 to an Abusive Husband

Dream2 TV (Egypt) - 1/8/2006 - 00:05:01

#978 - Bahraini Women's Rights Activist Ghada Jamshir Attacks Islamic Clerics for Fatwas Authorizing Sexual Abuse of Children

Al-Arabiya TV (Dubai) - 12/21/2005 - 00:05:01

#967 - Egyptian Intellectual Muhammad Ammara: Extremist Feminism Legitimizes Homosexuality

Nile Culture TV - 11/11/2005 - 00:02:05

#874 - Saudi Prince Talal bin Abd Al-'Aziz Aal Sa'ud: Jordan and Saudi Arabia Should Intervene to Rescue Iraqi Sunnis, Women's Rights according to the Shari'a Are "Enough", US Policy Responsible for Bad Arab-American Relations

Dubai TV - 9/16/2005 - 00:08:17

#817 - Al-Jazeera Special about Hanadi Jaradat, Other Female Palestinian Suicide Bombers, Their Families and the People Who Send Them to Die

Al-Jazeera TV (Qatar) - 8/16/2005 - 00:06:25

#796 - Polygamy in Egypt

MBC - 7/31/2005 - 00:03:19

#735 - Saudi Cleric Dr. Abd Al-'Aziz Al-Fawzan Explains Why Women Should Not Be Allowed to Drive

Al-Majd (Saudi Arabia/UAE) - 6/17/2005 - 00:02:07

#733 - Member of Saudi Shura Council Proposes to Allow Women to Drive

Al-Arabiya TV (Dubai) - 6/8/2005 - 00:01:00

#729 - Married to the Koran - The Rich in Pakistan Avoid the Bequeathing of Property outside the Family by "Marrying" Daughters to the Koran

Al-Arabiya TV (Dubai) - 5/19/2005 - 00:02:52

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Enjoy this clip from a strong muslim Arab woman.

There needs to be more like her speaking up.

enter 978 as the clip # and search

http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S2

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And that reason why the Koran teaches you to be violent is why we have a problem with you guys.

That reason is subject to interpretation by different groups.

Cartoon drawing,beauty contest and wars in other countries where the inhabitants see you as inferior to them,your religion not withstanding is yet another reason.

I said it earlier and I'll say it again,Mo was not a good example,dump him while you still got a chance and join the millions who have crossed over to the truth.

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Do you live in another planet or what? Ajia23 and OlaAjia have not misbehaved in this regard, or your own figment just missed a its function?

Good you noticed - it actually does worse than that, and I was only trying to be charitable by euphemizing the hate-instigations on the pages of the Qur'an.

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Malik and Babyosisi, nice posts by y'all. Definitely learnt a thing or two.

I could tell you where Gwaine is hiding, but I might have to kill y'all. So to avoid that, I'll say, he is doing fine and you will see him soon. Hopefully all of the other contributors have gone to sharpen their knowledge. Cos, it will even get more, hmmm, what's the word now?

Y'all should keep up the good work!

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"I'm a christain. But if you slap me on one cheek, i wont turn the other. Rather, i will turn and knock you over"   (Previous qoute from lioness)

Wow i thought the muslims were the violent ones. Please excuse my assumptions.

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I noticed even the guys who started this thread can't stand the heat.

Why crank up the oven when you're not ready to cook.

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Men, I am irritated to the point of vomitting. Islam: what a religion!!!!

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Christ is the only answer.He makes all things beautiful,he is able to deliver any man/woman that will call on him no matter where you have been.

He says you will find me when you seek me with ALL of your heart.

It's never too late.

Come to him today while you still have breath in you.

babyosisi

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And now I found it,the Ayatollah's teaching that would make your skin crawl,his word was law in the Islamic world,let's read what he had to say.

The very dark side of Islam they pray you never find out.

Islamic Teachings on sex with infants:

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister."

The complete Persian text of this saying can be found in "Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"

Islamic Teachings on sex with animals:

"The meat of horses, mules, or donkeys is not recommended. It is strictly forbidden if the animal was sodomized while alive by a man. In that case, the animal must be taken outside the city and sold."

Editor's notes: I wonder if it is OK to sodomize a dead animal? What happens if the buyer brings the poor animal back into the city?

"If one commits an act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned, and the price of it paid to its owner by him who sodomized it."

Editor's note: The poor animal first is sodomized and then killed and burned. What an Islamic justice towards animals? Where are the animal rights groups?

"It is forbidden to consume the excrement of animals or their nasal secretions. But if such are mixed in minute proportions into other foods their consumption is not forbidden."

"If a man (God protect him from it!) fornicates with an animal and ejaculates, ablution is necessary."

Editor's note: It does not say who should have ablution: the animal or the man?

From: Dr. Homa Darabi Foundation[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000]

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Some other Islamic laws by some Islamic countries.

You will never see a goat or sheep sold by a mallam the same way again.

Citizens of most Middle Eastern countries are forbidden to eat lamb under certain circumstances covered by Islamic law. The law reads, "After having sexual relations with a lamb, it is a mortal sin to eat its flesh." In Oman, if a man has sex with a camel, a cow, or a ewe, the law says that the animal's milk becomes impure and is no longer suitable for human consumption. Oman law requires that the animal must immediately be killed and then burned. The person who sodomized the beast is required to pay its owner the dead animal's full market value.

In Lebanon, only men are legally allowed to have sex with animals. But the gender of the animal is important—it must always be female. A man's having sexual relations with a male animal is considered a mortal sin and brings a death penalty for those who get caught.

According to Lebanese law, a woman must be executed for fornicating with any animal—wild or domesticated.

And to end this treatise on animals and sex, the law in Iran actually suggests that sex play by their male population "with wild animals is not recommended, especially with a lioness." What is recommended instead is Reproduction with domesticated animals such as dogs, cats, donkeys, lambs and, yes, of all things—pigeons.

Sodomy is also commonplace in parts of the Middle East. Again, special legislation can be found in Iran to cover this form of sexual activity. The law declares that if a man's joystick fully penetrates another man's anus, ablution is also a necessity, but this time for both parties to the sex act.

Kuwait covers all the bases when it comes to sexual feelings. It's illegal there for a married man to glance at another woman "in a sensual manner." Nor can any male, married or single, lustfully look at a statue of a female or at a female animal.

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There are lots of things Ayatollah Khomeini has taught, and while most Muslims in the western hemisphere would be appalled to read some of them, one would have to wonder why he in fact got his teachings from. At the end of the day, you'd have to conclude that whatever hideous names the Ayatollah could be called by moderate Muslims, he was only echoing the religion and teaching of Muhammad.

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Still looking for it,but see this.

Marriage

Under the Islamic Rules, the family protection law has been abrogated. The Islamic Republic resolutely supports the practice of polygamy.

Under the Islamic Republic, provisional marriage was sanctioned. Consequently, a man may marry "four Permanent" and as many "Provisional" wives as he desires.

The marriage age for girls was reduced to 13 and with the father's consent, a girl may marry at the age of nine. No restriction on the age of the man. In recent years the marriage age for women has been reduced to 9 years of age.

"The most suitable time for a girl to get married is the time when the girl can have her first menstrual period in her husband's house rather than her father's." Ayatollah Khomeini.[/color][color=#990000][color=#990000][/color]

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TayoD,these Muslims are animals,I hate to use harsh words like this but how can a court made of humans sentence a teenage girl (whom the Muslim judge declared as 22 despite her birth certificate) who obviously has had a hard childhood to die in public by hanging for adultery even though she was unmarried while her Molester,a man 3 times her age gets only 79 lashes of the cane,and belotti tells me Muslim women are the most priveledged on earth.

Why is there no outrage from them and yet they will quickly organise themselves after a cartoon.They created a monster and them alone can kill it.

Islam is the worst thing that happened to humanity and women and children are the worst for it.

Let me find something I read sometime ago by Ayatollah Khomeini the Iranian spritual leader(probably burning in hell)that will shock you all.

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Can you check out this BBC report about sharia in Iran: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/5217424.stm

I am more particular about the following statement made in the report. "However, the age of sexual consent for girls under Sharia law is nine, and furthermore, molest is very hard to prove in an Iranian court." Can any muslim plese confirm or refute this allegation. I am inclined to think Mohammed's immoral and carnal knowledge of Aisha is what kept the standard this low. Please prove me wrong.

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Awww, dearie! I was online for quite a while but didn't see you - and our ISP was frequently throwing me off the net for some inexplicable reason. If you saw me online but not getting responses from me - you know what was happening. How bodi?

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@babyosisi,

It is such a pity that this heinous sharia law and its crude and heartless enforcers are allowed to take root in what is supposed to be a secular Nigeria.  Life means nothing to them.  They can only destroy and have no power to create life.

I expect our moslem friends to cook up another conspiracy theory here.  And to top it all, they will keep telling us that Islam is a peaceful religion.  What a hog-wash.  There is absolutely nothing peaceful about that religion.  It was born and propagated in blood and it needs blood for its sustenance.  May God have mercy on their lost and dark souls. 

I feel for the life that has being lost.  But I have just one message for you Islamic murderers: "You may kill us, but you can never do us any real harm, for to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord."

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sharia law in action in Northern Nigeria.Shame of the 21st century.

http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newslongen.php?idelement=4283

http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newsen.php?idelement=4451

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awwww! Gwaine, i tot u were online now! nyways, l8erz then.

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Lol, I can't laugh enough, ajia23. Aiight, I'll just ignore all your requests on the Forum henceforth until you learn the meaning of "reform" and "respect" when discussing publicly affecting issues.

I tried severally to offer those previously, but you chaps simply went haywire and continued unabated in the opposite direction. . . until 'Gwaine' served you in just the same flavour, and you're now holding a white flag. Do the right thing, and you won't need to worry much about your complaints.

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Me, myself

Take it over from here because I promised to ignore gwaine until he reformed and learned to discuss with a little more respect.When he does that, then I will have an intellectual discusiion with him. However, I will follow you arguments closely.

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okay good, i'll let u know, when im ready n i know ur nl name is Gwaine, that was a mistake

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ok, believe it was a real relief knowin u arent gonna spank me *rolls eyes* lol

u know what, i'd like2approach this from a different direction, r u open2ideas?

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@ajia23,

Please don't take it that badly. For your sake, believe me, I would rather concentrate on a personal rubbing of minds with you and refrain from whatever expressions that may cause the discomfort of a pebble in the shoe of the general Muslim public. What I can't passively tolerate is the excuse of the notion that because Christians are asked to be "peaceful", it therefore gives Muslims the ticket to bash Christians and ridicule their faith in hope that they would do nothing. I'm not a very good exponent of the graces in the Bible - I know that quite well and my family (especially my dad who knows how stubborn I can be) have tried to help better my very 'gymnastic' outlook on life. You should be thankful I didn't enter the Forum in my former temperaments.

You'll be surprised that 4get_me has written several emails pleading with me to refrain from my tone in recent posts (for whatever personal reasons). I hear you all. But when especially in this thread, muslims like your twin OlaAjia are at liberty to call Christians liars and rebellious, and you followed through gleefully consenting to that display of infantile exuberance, you seem to be inviting some very unsympathetic proposal. Further, the same OlaAjia was only too glad to bad-mouth the Bible as a pornographic material - in such a situation, what would you have expected me to do than help turn his gaze closer home to his Qur'an where indeed more graphic pornographic stuff litter the pages of Muhammad's "holy" book? Believe me, there are far more lurid material in that book than most muslims are wont to acknowledge, that's why I take the time to look at the original arabic words and post them for all to see. Yusuf Ali, Picthal, Shakir and several others are just deceiving the world with their political English translations of the Qur'an, because they know only too well that Muhammad's "holy" book is fraught with stuff too much out of taste with the senses of an unbiased reader.

As soon as you Muslims - here and beyond - start respecting the Christian faith, this chap called "Gwaine" will not be so obliged to serve you the same unsympathetic proposal that you call for in your missives. OlaAjia thought Solomon was pornographic and thus he had a problem with the entire Bible; but has he taken a look at the Qur'an and Hadith about who Muhammad really was, and what he did in the sexual arena? If you can't stand the rocks you throw at other people's glass houses, then try not whining when they pelt pebbles at your huts. However, as far as the holy writs of Islam are concerned, Muhammad was precisely what we read of him - a craddle-robber, a womanizer and an Arab pornographer from the Quraish tribe. It's high time we call the bluff of that self-proclaimed "prophet" who was additionally addicted to his blood-thristy and murderous appetites.

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Me, myself

It really is curious that you do not approve of my methods but choose to be silent about the methods of others especially Gwaine who described the Prophet of Islam as follows.

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Very nice response lioness

Why don't you go and ask Muhammed(SAW) about your own misgivings?

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ajia23 some of your posts are quite interesting and nice to read

one thing you must understand is this:

people will use whatever they can (religion, morality, race, wealth, etc) to justify their actions, good or bad

so Bush using the bible, or Osama using the Koran are in this case the same thing when u break it down

the 2 Chronicles 15 quoted refers to israelites making a vow among themselves, that they would always serve the LORD their God, else they should be killed, a vountary vow

the issue of morality and punishment and sin should not be confused

God hates ALL sin, they are all the same in His eyes, we petty human beings may look at the individual consequences and what not, but God examines the heart

the truth is that salvation from Jesus is a mystery, we cannot comprehend it with our human reasoning, because it is far above us, we can only accept it by FAITH

I really don't want to get embroiled in the whole argument thing, just wanted to comment briefly

but Christians follow this: make your choice who u shall serve, not forcing/compelling people, you make your choice and then u enjoy/suffer the consequences

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I will try hard not to encourage bigotry in the future, it just happens that sometimes, in the heat of an exchange btween contending forces, it may not be out of place to slide into an 'us versus them'mood.

I understand what you stated about the American state, but going into details will expose my view point. The document which defined the Bush first term was drawn by one of his aides (I have forgotten his name now), in the name of fulfiling a biblical prophecy. That is why I stated that the secular machinery of the American state was hijacked by a conservative christian minority to achieve its own aims.

True talk about the deafening silence of the African Muslims on some terrorist acts. But you must realise that those who are opinionated do not have channels to publicise their views so that it may reach the widest audience possible.

I submit to the Sharia law willingly not as a consequence of any intimidation or fear, but out of conviction that it will help me live a fulfilled life. There are many like me.

Again you are right about the double standards thing. That is human and muslims see it and actually protest. I for one, speak out against such double standards, but it does not detract from the fact that Islam is against all such things, and if that prince were caught in an Islamic state perpetrating such acts, he will be made to face the Sharia. You just reiterated my point that those people find safe heavens in Western societies as a result of the decadence in such societies.

I want you to reply to the issues Odache raised so that I may have a very clear understanding of the seemingly glaring contradictions. You may quote the bible, but I want a summary of the lessons in the verses you quote as I am not good at interpreting the often grandiose language employed. But try and make it simple so that as a sceptic, I will have a shift in opinion at the very least. Thank you for calming down.

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Debowsky I like the way you replied, but you see, if I am to make a choice, I must be able to base my choice on some reasons. If you say some of those things are incomprehensible, it may actually be difficult for me to make the choice. Please try and explain as much as possible some of the concerns rised by ajia23. Even though I do not approve of some of his methods, he sure voices my confusion about trinity and some of the reported actions of Jesus leading to his crucifiction. Why would Jesus want to evade the task he obviously came to earth to do? Why would the devil try to tempt Jesus knowing he was God? Why would Jesus pray to himself on the cross when he is Hod as enunciated by davidylan and TayoD? Please give me the responses to these questions.

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Gwaine,

I do not deny being gleeful, however that does not detract from the intention of the message . I concede to you that indeed some chrisitans in the Western world actually oppose the American government poicies against Muslims and the middle eastern countries. But it is rather curious that African christians seem to be mute and I can say that christians simply are not doing enough to impress it upon the war-mongering christian sect that Bush and his fellow neo-cons belong to, that they are errant and have gone against the word of God in the bible.

You think the Sharia law is oppressive? But majority of the people governed by that law submit to it willingly. It's just the same way some people feel the Judeo-Christian laws used to govern most countries in the world are oppressive.

Please ignore my Islamic mindset, and try to answer my questions about the divinity of christ and the relationship between christianity and secular states. May be the respondents have not been able to explain it simply enough to me. You will have observed that when indeed someome convinces me on a point, I readily concede, as I do not argue for the sake of argument. But, the answers I have gotten so far have not convinced me, but confused me further as you have noted. So please continue in this calm disposition to try and explain the matter to me knowing that I am a sceptic of the Bible. Putting this into perspective will help you fine-tune your responses appropriately.

Thanks

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@ajia23,

That is because you're being very narrow in your observation. What did you do with the "stereotype" of your twin (OlaAjia) on the very first page on this thread when he stated:

Where in your reaction did you sound like you were actually fostering a spirit of calmness and dialogue in that kind of attitude? Only when you get put in your place that you come back crawling with snivels and waving a white flag. I've offered you several times to calm down and talk to people - we're grown-ups and mature enough to deal with issues (well, I don't know for the youth OlaAjia); and I also offered that if you'd rather go the way of seething with sly invectives and encouraging Islamic derision on this thread, then I would refuse to iggy your pranks and serve you in just the way you have chosen to understand the inputs that follow your posts.

No matter how many times this issue is explained to you, it's only too obvious that your Islamic mindset will continue to block out your reasoning faculty. Christianity is based on the NT in the Bible and not on the political consensus of any civil government. To mix up both is only too typical of one that is called ajia23. Christians are asked to respect the civil authorities and not take the laws into their hands; but it does not endorse a passive submission to injustice. This has been said several times over, but it will perhaps take omo and bleach to wash away your stereotype so you can see the point.

Oh yes, Sharia is injustice to the poor Muslim men and women who cannot speak for themselves and oppose a barbaric practice - that's why in a secular state like Nigeria, good meaning people should bring that rubbish to an end immediately. If Muslims in Nigeria cannot endure that, they could and should gather themselves and praying mats and move to Afghanistian, Pakistan, or Iran. Nigeria is neither an Islamic or theocratic state, and the Bedouin politicians in the north imposed their jiga over the Federal Law of the land. That is why Nigerian Christians and non-Christians (including well-meaning muslims) should throw out that blight and bane called Sharia as soon as possible, so that development will become a reality in the north.

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So you are accusing seun of bias? When he did allow and publicise all those hate-filled threads against muslims, he was being fair then right?

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seun can be anything he wants to be. No one really cares.

The basic point is that he should accord same equality and fairness to christainity as he does Muslims. SIMPLE

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