note:please give your answers with realistic proofs.
And didn't I expect that from you? Know now, that just as that fragrance can't be created merely by expressing it, the same "rose" you wrote about cannot also be created, forget its fragrance now. That we write something does not necessarily mean we have created it. Why mystify the rose's fragrance and leave the rose itself?
am fairly certain great writers of the 20th century such as D.H. Lawrence can do a fairly good job of describing both such that they may come alive for a few.
that said, if something exists truely, you most certainly can say something about it and well too. Language exists for such jobs/
It's my realization that gods cannot be expressed by the language (or words) of today, so on this topic we should all assume no knowledge and keep silent. For what the future holds, I cannot say
your argument is not at all new. Aquinas argued from the same standpoint. But this is necessary flawed. You can count your "earlier action or series of actions" continuously backwards, ad infinitum if you like, without arriving at a conclusion. There is indeed every reason to do this. Why again, as some others ask, can we not substitute in any of those processes a causal, unintended and lifeless accidental or alien process, which again might make rubbish of your argument?
Just so you know for keeps, the reasons why we ask such questions and seek to know the underlying reasons for existence is not because we are so smart. No not at all. Rather, it is because we have language and language, by default, is able to create both unnecessary and necessary questions. Our job for the present is to make efforts to tell the difference between these two and not fall into a cycle of repeated questioning.
WORDS [/b]on this forum so that I may [b]perceive [/b]it. . .
A VERY RICH SORT OF SILENCE >>
MASTER [re-phrasing Aristotle]: "In the quest of God, it would seem better and indeed necessary to give up what is dearest to us".
DISCIPLE: "I am ready, in the quest for God, to give up anything: wealth, friends, family, country, life itself. What else can a person give up"?
MASTER: "One's beliefs about God".
The disciple went away sad, for he clung to his convictions about God.
A simple answer to the question "does God really exist?"
The fact that one could comprehend enough as to question the reason behind the very laws of existence underscore the existence of some intelligence beyond the comprehensions of the empirical. Now, what one may choose to call this intelligence is left to individual idiosyncrasies and persuasions. However, neither these nor any attempt at 'denial' can contradict the fact that life of whatever form or sort is a reaction from some earlier action or series of actions. What were these actions composed of, or rather who effected such action(s)? This should be a question that humans (living up to the claim of being the most intelligent of creation) should make the efforts at really discovering, instead of questioning the reality of an existence which is far superior to any quasi-esoteric experience known to contemporary man.
The disciples were absorbed in a discussion of Lao Tzu’s dictum: “Those who know do not say. Those who say do not know.”
When the Master entered they asked him exactly what the words meant.
Said the Master, “Which of you knows the fragrance of a rose?”
All of them knew.
Then he said. “Put it into words.”
transcend words with what? Words again? Come on! About that which we know not of, we must maintain silence. Words will forever keep you stuck. To dwell in the reality of the now, we use the words at our disposal, these being the words of our day. Who doesn't know language is man's greatest enemy?
why must these be expressed in words when "words must die". I take it you commit the same mistake every believer does by attempting to use logic itself to express what is purportedly unaccessible to logic. Just so you know, words are the only things which exist; because they exist they have consequences arising from propositions. However not entirely every proposition is valid. One of such is "God exists".
Master: "What is it you seek"?
Master: "If you are to live, words must die". You are lost and forlorn because you dwell in a world of words. You feed on words, you are satisfied with words when what you need is substance. A menu will not satisfy your hunger. A formula will not slake your thirst".
Master: "Does God exist"?
Master: "Wrong again"
Disciple: "What's the answer?"
Master: "There is no answer".
Disciple:"Why ever not"?
Master: "Because[b] there is no question[/b]. If you[b] cannot say anything[/b] about Him who is beyond [/b]thoughts and words, [b]how can you ask anything about Him"?
Philosopher: Why are you so wary of thought? Thought is the one tool we have for organizing [/b]the world".
[b]Master: True. But thought can organize the world so well that you are no longer able to see it".
Philosopher: How do you mean?
Master: "A thought is a screen, not a mirror; that is why you live in a thought envelope, untouched by Reality".
You can neither prove nor disprove the existence of god or gods. But then, you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of the flying spaghetti monster, yet, no one in his right mind would say that that the flying spaghetti monster exists.
Seeking realistic proofs one way or the other is, frankly, dishonest.
A god who exists in the eye of the beholder is just that - a figment of the beholder's imagination. That is not evidence of the existence of god.
The evidence (scientific) so far points to the fact that there are no gods. Having said that, no atheist would ever say that there is no god. The best that can be said is that there is no evidence for the existence of god.
Contrary to posts on this forum from some ignorant theists, most atheists are rational people who believe in scientific methods. the day there is a compelling proof of the existence of god, most atheists would at the very list become deists. Of course, it is extremely unlikely that any such proof will ever be forthcoming.
You will have realized by now that God is not [/b]fully revealed in the realm of [b]LOGIC.
===================MORE "LOGIC" FOR YOU=================
The words of the scholar [/b]are [b]to be understood.
The words of the master [/b]are [b]not to be understood.
They are to be listened to as one listens to the wind in the trees and the sound of the river and the song of the bird.
They will awaken something within the heart that is[b] beyond all knowledge[/b].
@imhotep. . . I'm quite sure you believe you made a 'logical' argument. This is why i don't post regularly on nl anymore. The forum is being over run by retards! And i thought someone going by an eygptian deity id such as 'imhotep' would have more than enough basic ancient history to know better. Good grief! ! !
On the street I saw a Unclad [/b]child, [b]hungry [/b]and [b]shivering [/b]in the cold.
I became [b]angry [/b]and said to God, "[b]Why [/b]do you permit this? [b]Why [/b]don't you do something?"
For a while God said [b]nothing.
That night he replied, quite suddenly, "I certainly did something. I made you."
Poster i Think you shud ask christians and muslim where was the foreign God when pastor bimbo odukoya was killed in a plane crash and where was this God when 500 thousand innocent pple got killed in haiti earth Quake.
Mind you they will avoid that question as usual, and to the Muslims where is the God 4 million pple have being affected by flood in pakistan? or are they not praying enough?
@poster. . . Don't bother yourself asking this question coz most of the religious zombies here would rather kill you than take a step back to think about things. I have flogged this issue tireslessly with the likes of MAZAJE and TUDOR. The replies are usual the irrational-childish-off key-thread derailing posts you see here. I even went to another forum to open a very comprehensive inquiry to this same question. I am using my phone 2 type so i cant post links but you can google 'harakiri religion naijapals'. Type it out like that and search. Its all there. Cheers.
Certainly, this is a question that would amaze anyone who has ever designed a thing or planned an event.
Every man-made object we see around us or use, has a design.
If there is a design, certainly, there is a designer.
If you have ever used a car or entered into an airplane, ship or a new car you will certainly appreciate the elegance and importance of designs. There would never be a design if there never was a designer.
Now, if these things made by man amaze anyone for whatever reasons, wouldn't we agree that man himself must have been made (designed) by a designer?
Look at the similarity between the human brain and the computer, the human eyes and the camera and several other things around us. These are all enough proofs that somewhere out there, there is a supreme designer and indeed a creator who creates all things visible and otherwise, little or great earthly or heavenly.
If you still doubt the existence of God (the grand creator), answer this question: Did you design and create yourself?
An elderly woman who was an enthusiastic gardener believed that all that was needed to control the weather was prayer.
Then one summer, while she was away on a foreign trip, a drought hit the land and wiped out her entire garden. She was so upset when she got back that she changed her religion.
(Morale: She should have changed her unfounded beliefs.)
Goodday nairalanders,i really applause everyone of you,for having contributed on the subject matter.the subject has been a controversial issue in the world at large and have affected us either positive or negative base on our beliefs,ideas and thoughts. Many thinks that God does not exist,while inreverse,many also diagree to it.most especially,this has been the major problem affecting Africans and Nigerians and not just corruption.Let take examples scientifically, from our societies,neighbourhoods,peer-groups,even our families both nuclear and extended.you will find out that many lack the knowledge of God and of his existence,unlike as it is here on nairaland.i posted the subject,in other to carry out a proven experiment,which in discovery,it's a proof to what am saying. my dear,there is a living God who is not known by all,whom i strongly believe in.He is the self existing God,who loves you to give you the best in life.see ref:jn 4:24;num 19:23;jer 29:11;23:23.
Nonsense thread. Seems the dude(thread author) is new here. The God issue have been discussed couple of times since i became a member of NL from 2006 to date, with the atheists,theists,deists&skeptics sticking with their respective opinions. @ op, its now left to u to tell us a new thing about the subject&also tell me where u stand as regards Gods existence/otherwise b4 i discuss with u. Im waiting.
You must have taken a position on this before making this post. Whatever the position, the burden of proof is on you to sell your viewpoint. If you believe that God does not exist, which is what one may suspect from your post, you should state the reasons why you think so and then expect us to either support or refute your position with 'realistic proofs'.
Again, you may want to take another approach of bashing the arguments of those of us who believe in God and then expect us to defend ourselves.
Either way, you should bell the cat. Waiting.