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Homosexuality And Christainity: What Is Your Position?

Please Read Carefully before you post,

I know most people are gutted being that we have a society that is extremely homophobic, but just like you there was a time in Calabar when the birth of twins was also viewed as a taboo so if you have never taken the time out to read and research about this topic I would advice you to do so before you post it doesn't matter what your position is as long as you do it from a position of having examined the facts.

Christian leaders have written about homosexual male-male sexual activities since the first decades of Christianity; female-female sexual behaviour was essentially ignored. Throughout the majority of Christian history most theologians and Christian denominations have viewed homosexual behavior as immoral or sinful. However, in the past century some prominent theologians and Christian religious groups have espoused a wide variety of beliefs and practices towards homosexuals, including the establishment of some 'open and accepting' congregations.

Liberal Christian view

Liberal Christians believe that Biblical passages have been mistranslated or that these passages do not refer to homosexuality. Liberal Christian scholars, like conservative Christian scholars, accept earlier versions of the Bible in Hebrew or Greek. However within these early Bibles there are many terms that liberals have interpreted differently than previous generations of scholars. They are concerned with copying errors, forgery, and of biases among the translators of later Bibles.

Conservative Christian view

Conservative Christians belong to the traditional marriage movement, which believe that only unions between one man and one woman should be legally defined as marriages. They interpret biblical verses on homosexuality to mean that homosexuality is against God's will.

Furthermore, they believe that the heterosexual family is divinely inspired,commanded of God, and that homosexual relationships undermines heterosexual marriage.They interpret some Biblical passages such as "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh"(Gen 2:24) and "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord"(1 Corn 11:11) as evidence of the God-given nature of the heterosexual family.

Nature or Nurture

In debating sexual orientation, much is unknown; according to Charles Darwin, ", we do not even in the least know the final cause of sexuality.  The whole subject is hidden in darkness." .  Although the APA currently states that sexual orientation is not a choice, rather that ", it emerges from most people in early adolescence with no prior sexual experience" social theorists argue that an individual's upbringing can directly influence this [sexual orientation].  Also tied in with many of these debates is the morality of homosexuality.  But the purpose of this examination is not to prove whether or not homosexuality is right or wrong, but rather to establish a thorough understanding of the biological and social theories surrounding the cause of homosexuality.

So read get informed and say what you think!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Christianity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals

http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

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Newbie
71 answers

Dear Nairalanders,

Lets me contribute my two cents to this discussion. I hope you guys keep an open mind and respond politely if you wish. The issue of homosexuality is a complex yet it is not supposed to be so complex. Like they say, you cannot understand another man's situation if you have not walked in his shoes. And if you are heterosexual, you can never understand the struggles and experiences of a homosexual person. I just hope that you will try to put yourself in those shoes for a minute while you read this. The most important thing I want you to do is to keep an open mind and not equate homosexuality with just a sexual act. Afterall, when you think of heterosexuality, you dont think of sex. You think feelings, love, the need for human companionship and maybe sex down the line. But sex is not the building block. In the same vein, a 15 year -old boy may discover that he only has same sex feelings but he never actually engages in same sex activity all his life as he enters the priesthood. That doesnt make him any less gay. He was gay at 15 and he will be gay all his life. that he never engages in the a sexual act doesnt change who you are attracted to. Or do you think priests and reverend sisters and 12 year old kids are asexual? Ofcourse not. You may not be engaged in sex, but it doesnt mean you do not have a sexual orientation. Its either gay or straight. So please lets disentangle this discourse from sexual intercourse. Its about who you are drawn to emotionally, physically and spiritually.

First and foremost, I believe the cardinal bone of contention here is that most people find it had to believe that people are born gay. The real question is, Are people born heterosexual? If you believe that you were born heterosexual then do you think it is possible that some people were born gay? I want to assume that if you are straight that there was never a point in your life when you were attracted to both males and females; after which you then decided to choose the opposite sex. Did you ever get to make that conscious choice? I doubt it. Then why do you think that a gay person was given that choice by God? Why would anybody ever choose to be attracted to the same sex when he knows the price that he will pay in society? The risks are numerous- your family will disown you in a heartbeat, all your friends will abandon you and any hope for a real fulfilling future is gone; all because for no reason, you hit puberty and you discover that you are different.

If you are straight, you may not understand this. But I assume that if you are a guy that around the age of 11-12, you started becoming interested in girls. That is normal at puberty. Imagine if at that age you find yourself with no attraction whatsoever to the opposite sex, but only to your own sex. That is the reality of a gay person. You try to fight it. You try to go to all the church deliverances and say all the prayers and promise God everything if only he will just take it away- If only he will just make you normal. Believe me, that is the only prayer of gay people. You try hard to keep the secret and you also are afraid that if anybody finds out the secret, that you may be mobbed in a heartbeat. It is hard enough for a heterosexual teenage boy to stay focused in school and stuff because hormones are raging and you want to chyke guys and all. Imagine how much harder it is for gay people when you know that what you have is what Oscar Wilde called 'the love that dare not speak its name'. You can't tell anyone about it. You just live with your secret into your twenties. Some are bold enough to carry on with secret relationships with their peers just like their heterosexual mates are doing. Others torture themselves everyday because they cannot reconcile what they feel inside with what their religion and society has told them that they should feel. Its no wonder that the rates of teenage depression, suicide and all is so high. In the US, teenage suicide among gay teens is 7 times what it is in heterosexual teens- This means that for every 100 suicides among teenagers, more than 80 of these will be gay teens - usually those struggling to come to terms with their sexuality or experiencing rejection or discrimination from their friends and families. Do you think 14, 15 year old teenagers will want to kill themselves over something they could change? Think again. Do you know the kind of emotional turmoil that a gay person must be in to think that the best solution is to take your life and just escape this earth and its hardship? I'm sure you cant begin to imagine this. But like I said, try and walk in the homosexuals shoes for a minute because unless you can do this you will never understand his life experiences.

But then, you are a human being- with hormones and real feelings. Just like a 15 or 16 year old boy would see a girl in his class and like to 'toast' her, there also gay people who are surrounded by people that they are attracted to- but who they dont want to be attracted to. Its simple biology. Every human being has the capacity to love and be loved. But people do not control the sex they are attracted to. If you are straight and think it is a choice, I bet that If I offer you a billion dollars to turn gay, that you will not be able to. And by turning gay i mean that you will be genuinely attracted emotionally, psychologically, spiritually and then physically to someone of your same sex. Believe me, you cannot do it. Why? Because you were not born that way. It is the same way for people who are gay. They have tried and tried and begged God and done everything but it doesnt go away. Most importantly, most gay people do not have the natural attraction to the opposite sex - so what should they do? They just cannot connect emotionally, spiritually and physically to the opposite sex as they can to their own sex. Its plain and simple. It would be easier for some if they had a natural capacity to like both sexes- truly Bisexual people have that capacity and so they can swing both ways naturally. But for most gay people, they are forced by societal and religious pressure to go into heterosexual relationships that they are not naturaly equipped to go into.

In Nigeria, we dont even acknowledge the existence of homosexuality and so I'm sure that we may have no statistics on the magnitude of this issue. If we are to go by what the researchers say, 2-5 % of every population is gay. Every population means every population and not just Western population like we want to believe. In other accounts, this proportion is closer to 10%. This will mean that close to 15 million Nigerian are most likely gay. Gay people seem to be non-existent because in truth, heterosexuals are about 80-90% of people and they will always be the majority. Its just the way nature works. As the most populous black nation on earth, it also means that we have the highest concentration of black gay people on this earth. I am not saying this to alarm you, but it is just a reality of life and nature that will shock you probably because you may think that you dont know too many gay people personally. But then, who in his right sense will tell another person in Nigeria that he is gay. People just carry on with their secret affairs and pretend that everything is ok. We are a nation that is notorious for hidding things under the basket.

Most gay people go ahead and get married. For most of them, they may like and even learn to LOVE their spouses, but they will never be IN LOVE with their spouses because they can never connect on that level with them. And I believe that every one deserves to be with someone that is truly IN LOVE with them and not someone that is using them as a cover for the busy-body Nigerian society that will begin to wonder why this middle-aged Nigerian man is not married. If you are woman, you want a man that loves you completely and you will be utterly heartbroken to find out that your husband is gay and is having affairs with men outside. Yes, with men. A married gay man will not have affairs with women, it is with men- because it is men that he is truly attracted to and their is nothing that his 'poor' wife can do to change his biology or to give him emotional and yes- sexual, satisfaction. And believe me sexual satisfaction is a big part of every relationship- gay or straight. Most importantly, his poor wife will not be genuinely loved and may not have a fulfilling sex life because the man is not genuinely attracted to her. So we have an innocent woman who is trapped in a loveless marriage with a man who may contract an STD anytime if he is not careful. This is what they call the 'Down low syndrome' among African American communities- gay men who are forced to live straight live and have wives and girlfriends. Believe me, this scenario I just recounted is living and thriving in our own Naija as it is in all parts of the world. In more open cities like Lagos, there is a thriving gay prostitution scene where 'respectable' men go to satisfy their passions. Some men, enter into long term relationships with their 'buddies' while still keeping their wives. Secrets, Secrets and Lies everywhere. I'll use the handedness analogy for this issue because it is very appropriate. About 10% of people are born left-handed while 90% are born right-handed. Its an in-born thing which in times past was seen as an abomination. There were times when left-handed people were persecuted and killed (you can do your research on this). In Nigeria now, left-handed kids still have it tough. Most parents try to change their kids and most parent succeed in making them learn to use their right hands. Still, those kids never truly lose the function of their left hands. They just learn to become ambidextrous and they learn to write and eat and take stuff from their elders with their right hands. But after all said and done, they are all still most comfortable with the left and always resort to it when no one is looking or when they are all grown up. For a small percentage, they will never learn to use their right hands and they are the ones whom their parents will always flog. Still, they never are able to learn it. Its just their nature. It is that way with gay people. You may force yourself out of societal pressure to be with the opposite sex but you never truly loose your attraction for your own sex. Most times, this leads to cheating in marriages. For the small percentage of gay men and women who cannot even fake an attaction to the opposite sex, there are like the perpetual left-handers- unable to conform to society's expectation, not out of their own stubbornness but because of how God created them

Who do we blame for this kind of double life? It is easy to blame the gay man or woman, but then we should ask ourselves- what role do we play in cultivating this kind of double life? Isnt society to blame for being so hostile to the idea of homosexuality that people are forced to live in the closet and deny an essential part of themselves? I'll tell you this, if you know anybody that is openly gay in Nigeria and has chosen not to marry but to be honest with themselves, you should go up to them and give them a handshake. Because they have defied all the pressure from religion and society to do the honorable thing and live life with dignity instead of deceiving an innocent person into marriage. They are the ones that have chosen to obey their consciences and be honest. Most importantly, for that gay married person, can you imagine how unhappy his life is. Knowing that you have to lie everyday and that you cannot truly be yourself or be with someone you may truly love because of society. Its a hopeless situation and thing can only begin to get better when people realise that the gay person cannot change to a heterosexual anymore than the heterosexual can turn gay. People are just made that way by God for his own reasons and it does not go away anymore than a heterosexual person suddenly stops being heterosexual. Once we learn this truth, we can begin to accept people for what they are and then they may feel comfortable living honest lives. But we cannot expect people to acknowledge their homosexuality when we as a society will want to treat them as second class citizens.

As a gay Christians will tell you, they have made peace with themselves and they know that God loves them the way they are. They do not consider a same-sex loving couple in a monogamous relationship to be a sin and I dont either. By this relationship, I mean 2 people of the same sex who are comlpletely devoted to each other and have chosen to build a life together. In some countries in the West and even in South Africa, they are legally married and some of them have biological or adopted kids and are as normal as every family. The only difference is that both partners are of the same sex. And please get your head out of the gutter and dont think about what they do in bed or how they do it in bed because it is not anybody's business what happens in the confines on one's bed chambers. This may seem silly to some of you but I ask you to read on. First and foremost, I want you to use you brain because God gave it to to you for a reason - to think independently and make up your mind on issues. Ignore whatever you have been told that the Bible said and look for God's answers on your own. Now, there is a school of thought that says that Biblical interpretation should be taken literally- that is, just exactly the way it is written in the Bible, while there is a second school of thought that says that you should look at everything said in the Bible in the context of the times in which it was written. i belong to the second school of thought.

Let me begin by saying that we all know that people say that the Bible is the 'word' of God. I agree that the Bible was inspired by God; but it was not written by God. It was written by inspired men who wrote in their own 'words' and not God's exact 'words'. This men wrote within their own socio-cultural context and this is abundant when we consider the things in the bible that we ignore today because it doesnt make sense in our time. The literalist will always throw the passages in Leviticus that say that a man must not lie with another man because it is an abomination. However, the literalist also tries to forget verses in that same Leviticus that say that if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, that she should be taken back to her father's house and stoned to death; and that a disobedient child should also be stoned to death. This same Leviticus said that it was an abomination to mix two types of fabrics together. It also calls it an abomination to eat shellfish. And the list goes on and on, It called all these things an abomination. Yet today, we all eat shellfish, we all wear ankara and brocade in the same cloth and we all eat shellfish. Most girls are not virgins when they get married and their husbands do not return then to their fathers and stone them to death. Why then do we persist in

hurling these passages at gay people. These portions of the bible make it clear that the people that wrote it did so in line with their own cultural practices thousands of years ago. In this age and time, some of those passage will be seen as sexist and child abuse.

Now, we know that the Bible was not written in English. Infact the Bible as we know it was not compiled in its original language until hundreds of years after the death of Christ when the Church decided to put together a Holy Book based on religious writings. Of course by then there were so any writings. These writing were mostly stories handed down by word of mouth and passages by the early Christians to successive generations. By around 400 years after the death of Christ when the Vulgate bible was compiled, there were a lot of books written and it was up to a select committee of men to choose and decide which books will make it into what we now know as the Bible. Out of thousands of books, they choose the 66 books that we now know as the Bible. Or do you think that it was only Matthew, Mark, luke and John that told stories about Jesus and had it written into books? There were many other Gospels. There is the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Barnabas,Gospel of Truth, Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Mary and the list goes on. Why werent these ones selected? The point I am trying to make is that the assembling of the Bible as we know it was done by human beings like you and me with their own guiding philosophies and interests and so it makes no sense when someone assumes a literalist stance and says that the Bible provides the answer to everything that is God's will.

Now we know that the bible is full of passages that make it clear that the place of a woman in society is akin to that of a man's property. She is to be seen and not to be heard. A man could marry plenty wives in the Bible and nothing was wrong with that- Moses was married to Sarah and still sired a child through her maid, Solomon had hundreds of wives. This was normal in their time, but in this age and time, we do not subscribe to those beliefs because we whether we like it or not, we agree that the bible is context specific and that those things that were acceptable in that culture do not apply now. Just look at the high rate of divorces everywhere and you will agree that we are not following the bible to the letter. Now it stands to reason that if women were invited to the table when the final 66 books of the Bible were being out together, that there will have been some protest against some books that expressly permit discrimination against women. For example, we have a place in the new testament that says that women should not speak in a place of worship and should instead sit and listen. Up till date, some churches still use that to ban the adoption of women into the clergy. But tell me, do you think that a woman who is spirit-filled is any less an instrument of God than a man? There are numerous instance where the Bible has been used to denigrate a particular group- whether women, slaves or homosexuals. But i bet that if people fro any of these groups were present during the final compilation of the Bible, that the parts of the Bible that harm them will not have made it into the final draft. My point- the Bible is a book inspired by God but written by man and put together by man to reflect his peculiar leaning. My point- Learn to look at things for yourself and question a bit- Because as someone said, it is only by questioning your faith that you van find a deeper faith.

We know from the translation of the Bible over two thousand years that it has been through many languages. The original languages in which it was first transcribed are mostly non-existent now. And we also know that the 'homosexuality' did not appear in the English bible until about 1949. Before then, most translations referred to some of the verses as male prostitution and co. It is no surprise that homosexuality as we know it today- a loving relationship between people of the same sex, was not written of in the bible because the Biblical writers did not have any concept of sexuality or same-gender loving relationships like we have today. How can the bible then condemn homosexuality when the word didnt make it way in there until about 2,000 years later. it is in the same way that we dont expect the Bible to give us answers to issues like Nuclear energy or assisted reproduction techniques or Information technology because in the biblical times, they had no concept of this.

To be sure, the bible condemned male prostitution- just as it did for female prostitution. And it is this word that many biblical scholars feel have been mutated over time to no become homosexuality in the bible. But then, how does male prostitution equate with a present-day same gender-loving relationship like we know it to be today where you have partners that are committed to themselves physically and emotionally just as heterosexuals are?

And to be sue too, Paul condemns people who have given up their 'natural' desires to pursue the same sex. The only thing is that for the homosexual, what is 'natural' is attraction to the same sex. Being with an opposite sex partner to the gay person is as unnatural as forcing a heterosexual to sleep with someone of the same sex. The level of revulsion is the same. The only difference is that society forces the homosexual to effectively 'molest' himself/herself, go against his nature and do it. It is not a surprise that Paul felt that people were giving up their natural desires. Afterall, the concept of sexuality as we know it today was not their in his time. And so I'm sure that he assumed that it was only the kind of desires he had that were the 'natural' ones. In that way, he is no different than you the reader or most heterosexuals who always wonder what the f*** is wrong with gay people? Why would they give up what you have and that which you assume is natural to most people- heterosexuality, to pursue homosexuality? The answer boils down to what I have said earlier- if you have not lived in a gay person's body and gone through what he has gone through- the hormones, the exclusive same-sex feelings, the utter absence of opposite-sex attraction throughout life, then who are you to tell him that his feelings are not 'natural'? It is just like telling a left-handed child that his 'bad' habit is not natural and that he should stop it. This a very telling analogy because almost all gay people who speak truthfully say that they have always known that they were different. Some know as early as 7-8 years in life. They might not have the word for it at that age and they certainly are not engaging in any sexual activity at that age, but they do know that the way they feel about people of their own sex is not quite 'normal'. So to base the condemnation of homosexuality on what St. Paul has said would be not to use our God-given intelligence to think for ourselves. if God created some people homosexual, then how can we say that their desires are unnatural?

Some people try to say that homosexuality is mostly environmental and that people who may have been abused sexually or had absent parental figures are the ones at risk. This is utter garbage. Did you become heterosexual because you were abused by an opposite sex uncle or aunt? Did the environment really have anything to do with your sexuality or did you just hit puberty and found it there? Afterall, almost every homosexual was raised in an home by a mother and a father and if environmental influences are the strongest, then the child should have learnt from his parent's example and also become heterosexual. Infact, I dont believe there is any gay family in Nigeria, why then do we still have homosexuals in our society? This brings me to the issue of the arguement against gay parenting. People say that if homosexuality and hay marriage and parenting becomes allowed, that children will be turned gay in those families. How so? Parents have no influence on the sexual orientation of their children and gay parents are not any more likely to raise gay kids than straight parents. Afterall, most of the gay parents were raised by straight parents and they still turned out gay! Go figure!

The most common Biblical portion used against homosexuality is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The popular assumption is that the city was destroyed solely because of homosexuality. This cannot be further away from the truth. God saw the iniquities of Sodom- their greed, lust, wickedness and all. Sodom was a very rich city but they had given themselves unto wickedness. Because of their wealth and wickedness, there were notoriously territorial and did not let people into their city lest they try to tap into the source of their wealth. God saw all this and wanted to destroy them but he instead decided to send his angels to see for themselves. Keep in mind that ab initio, God wanted to destroy them- which was why he told Abraham later in the Bible that if he had seen even just ten righteous men in all the city of Sodom, that he would have spared the city. Back to the story. So the angels were welcomed to Lots house but as soon as the men of the city heard that they had visitors in the city, they demanded that they be brought out to them. It was there in-hospitality and wickedness that made them demand that the angels be brought out to them so that they could 'know' them. This means to forcibly molest them. S we have a mob of maybe hundreds of men who men who want to gang molest three angels. Why? It wasn't because of homosexuality as we know it today - a loving relationship between two men. It was because of their inhospitality and their greed -to protect their city's wealth, that they would not let strangers into their city. It was because of this that they wanted to humiliate the strangers by forcibly gang Molesting them- to teach them a lesson so that they dare not come back. Afterall, what is more humiliating than gang-Molesting a man. It was sure to serve as a deterrent to future visitors who may want to come there for their wealth. Lot pleaded with them and even offered up his own daughters but they refused. They wanted the men(angels) in Lot's house. Now tell me, do you think that the gang of men were so sex-crazed that they just all wanted to 'make love' to these three men out of all the men and women in that city at the same time? Definitely not. They wanted To Molest them. That was their sin. That was the sin of Sodom in that instance- molest, Humiliation, Inhospitality. Added to this, is their wickedness and other sins that made God send down his angels to come and survey things for themselves first hand. These were all the sins of Sodom and that is why the city was destroyed. Not because of Homosexuality. or do you think that if instead of the gang of men requesting for the male angels, but requesting for females instead that the city would be spared? No. The city would still have been destroyed even if it was women that wanted To Molest. So please, lets open our minds to the real truth why Sodom was destroyed and not equate it with homosexuality- which is simply two people who are attracted to each other, fall in love and just want happily ever after like every heterosexual wants.

I know that some of you have looked at the story of Sodom in this way before because you haven't taken the time to do your own studies and research. Or because you have always been told by your pastor and everyone around you that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for homosexuality. Well think again! People have always distorted their interpretation of the bible for their own selfish means. Afterall, the bible was used over the years to subjugate women and treat them like second class citizens. And yes they are biblical passages that support this treatment, but does that make it right? Is a woman any less than a man because of an accident of birth? And to believe that up till the 1920's that women did not have the right to vote in the US or in many other countries and couldn't own property. Even in Nigeria today, women cannot own property in some places if their husbands die. And believe me, the bible was used over the years to support this kind of treatment. It is no different for homosexuals. The Bible has been used by people to condemn them- people who dont understand their unique struggles. the Bible has always been used to condemn the minority and the weaker groups.

It was this same Bible that was used to justify slavery by the White man over more than 200 years. And yes there are passages which clearly support slavery. This continued until the 1960's in the US when the Black man got the right to vote. This continued until the 1990's in South Africa when Apartheid was abolished. The bible was used to support the inferiority of the Black race and that was why this all happened. The bible was also used to prevent Interracial marriages between blacks and whites in the US up till the 1970s because an inferior and a superior race are not supposed to mix. Dear Nairalander, so much iniquity has been committed against minority and oppressed groups in the name of the bible, yet today, we ignore those parts of the bible because event though they might applied in the old times, they dont apply in our time.

It is amazing how our Lord Jesus never said a word regarding homosexuality. All he preached all his life was love. Love your God and Love your neighbour. No condemnation. No judgements. Just do the right thing and be true to your conscience. And believe me, there is nothing more damning to the conscience of a homosexual as faking love and attraction to the opposite sex so that he can get married and escape societies expectations and all. It is damning to his soul because deep down, he knows that he is not only sinning against his conscience and God, he is also sinning against the innocent partner that has been brought into the marriage or relationship. The homosexual harbours his secret and it slowly eats him up. The quality of his relationship with his spouse can never be perfect because there is a secret there- the foundation of the relationship is built on lies. This makes it easier to tell more lies and keep more secrets in the marriage. In truth, closeted gay people (like most Nigerians) have not true friends. They are there own best friends and the keeper of the secrets. Afterall, how can you say you have a friend when you are not even able to talk with that friend about your true crush? Or share details about your true feelings? Friendships are formed by sharing and the closeted homosexual has learnt through life to shut himself off and just keep his struggles buried deep. The closet is a place of great sorrow- for the person . It is also a terrible thing because of the collateral damage that follows it.

My write-up has become too lengthy and if you are still reading up to this point, then you must be a strong 'pesin'. All I hope I have accomplished is to make you see things from a different lens - the lens of a christian who is questioning and seeking a deeper faith on this issue; the lens of a concerned person who may not be homosexual but can for a second put himself in those shoes. There will always be those 10% of people in every society that are gay - this has been so since the creation of man and it will continue to be so. The same way that there is homosexuality in a certain percentage of animals too. It is as natural as heterosexuality. Its just part of God's variety- the same way left-handed people are. The question is what do as a society do with and for them? Do we acknowledge them and make it easier for them to lead honest and productive lives or are we going to discriminate and make them go further in the closet and deny their true selves? - That is the question.

Thank you for reading and I hope you take out time to think things through for yourself and discover your own truth. Why? Because you dont know who amongst you is gay- It may be your closest brother; it may be that your female friend that is always kind to you; it may be your Father who even cheated on your mother once early in the marriage before you were born; it may be that 40-something year old handsome lawyer that you always see drive past in his Jeep and you wonder why he is still single; it may be your husband who is usually sexually and emotionally aloof and likes to spend time with his best buddy instead. Most importantly - it could be your child. He may still be be a baby now but he already has a sexuality and in 10 to 15 years, he will become aware of it. It could be anybody- 'e no dey show for face'. Gay people come in all shapes and sizes, fro the the most macho to the effeminate; from the most educated and responsible to the lowlife - there are no stereotypes. So please drop all your misconceptions and think of these people as human beings- deserving of your Christian love, understanding and acceptance; just the way they are.

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Newbie

There is absolutely no theory in what I have said. I have simply analysed a narrative as give in the bible in the light of reason and scientific rationalism. I challenge you to show me anywhere my analysis is flawed.

What is this stuff about mountains and elders? I thought you were simply religious, but it also looks like stupidity has take over your mind. Where the hell do elders take kids to mountain to explain the world to them? It is clear you are now just making things up. If I did not know about Christians and their vile religion I would be surprise. But alas, Christians are in the habit of making things up as they go along, particularly when caught in inconsistencies, lies and absurdities like you have been.

Not only is this falsehood, it is downright ridiculous. Was the devil an elder being to Jesus, who needed to take him up a mountain to explain the world to him? Did Jesus not already know the world, given that he was a god? What sort of theology are you expounding?

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1 Corinthians 6:3

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

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Exciting response from Rhino$$.

There is a passage in the Bible that states men will judge angels on the last day . . . . . .I will get it soon. So, the one who says he/she is not ready to judge others should start doing that now.

The Word of God is explicit about homosexuals and their act. They will be judged according to their works. . . . .and the judgement here is Death. Need I say that they will burn in Hell for ever and ever?

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Newbie

All you have said so far are your own eprsonal theory.

I am not sure about you, however, when the eldery wanna explain the world to the il kids, they take them to the high mountain and tell them to look down at the world, does that means the world was flat, nope, only means that they represent the world with what theys ee.

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What a joke!!! and who is the someone else ?

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You remember the bit where the devil is supposed to have taken Jesus up a mountain and "showed Jesus the whole world". Ignoring the sheer absurdity of a devil taking a god ( possibly hand-in-hand), let's just dwell on the physicality of the narrative.

Why did the devil not show Jesus the entire world from their initial standing position? Presumably, these beings have supernatural powers, so they should have been able to see the world world from a plain, or a boat/ship on the sea of Galilee, or from a synagogue, or inn.

Now, because they could not see the entire world from these low-lying locations, the devil had to take Jesus up a mountain to show him the whole world. But is it possible to see the whole world, even from the top of the highest mountain if the world is spherical? I submit, absolutely NO.

These supernatural beings though not only that the earth was flat, but also that the Middle East/Near East constituted the entire world. There would have had no idea about Nigeria and the Igbo, Yorubas - no idea about Japan, Mongolia, Australia, Alaska, the native South Americans, etc, etc.

You see, this narrative only makes sense in a relatively small and flat world.

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If you are gay then i am gay too, like i ealier on said i am that which you are.

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ok ,u r a gay ,buh byeeee

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go and check the size of the boat and once again, u are questioning the one that cld snap his fingers and you will sieze to exist, just answer the question if u evolve from apes, if u refse to blv that God created you.

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you see all you do is try to give excuses, it was'nt said that he ended or began writting its believed and said that he wrote all for books thats why in some bibles you will see writtings like the first book of moses, the second book of moses etc, about the noah's ark what about animals like kangaros, koala, polar bears, walrus etc that are found in particular regions of the world? how can the male and female animals of the whole world fit into a boat of that size? what does the bible mean by snakes eating dust and by bats being birds? can you please explain to us? and why is there no mention of china , indai and the americas in the bible? why are there no prophets amongst them?

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Tell me where in the bible it says that the earth was flat, and you are making a mistake by telling me what the pple that try to grasp the understanding of He who created all things and narrate that to me, when the words of the one who created the earth itself is there, which one would i blv, that of scientist or that of God, so i guess you blv to that yuo are formed from the apes according to science?

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The books were said to be written by Moses, however, doesnt mean that he ended the book, he started and wrote most the book, but i am sure that someone else's wrote about the time he was gone.

Show me whre you get information that Noah's ark, i like pple to give me facts and not just make a statement.

When the bible says snakes eating dust, not saying dust as in sand, so try to get info right be4 u say something is wrong.

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The bible describes a bat as a fowl (or bird), says rabbits chew the cud, says mating animals can select the sex of the offsprings by watching patterns of stripes.

Implies the earth is flat

That the sun goes around the earth

Says Joshua was able to stop the movement of the sun around the earth

That humans are created and descended from Adam&Eve

and more, and more and more

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According to the bible the books of genesis, exodus, leviticus and numbers were written by moses, that is not possible because moses can not write about his birth, death and things that happened long after he died so that is totally incorrect.

the noahs ark story is just a fable that is if you look at it with an objective mind.

snakes do not eat dust according to the bible they do which is also false there are sooo many but these are just the few i can come up with for now.

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@everyone

I feel you guys but please lets stick to the topic its about homosexuality and christianity we cannot leave the bible out of it, if you feel there is something with the bible you might start another thread and then we would all weigh in there, now it is homosexuality as regards christianity so with all due respect if you are a muslim and you want to weigh in then examine what the bible says about it then weigh in your thoughts

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show me one thing in the bible that was wrong, just one.

i am not kidding you at all.

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are you kidding me? i am not a muslim mind you.

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Your bible has been wrong about many many many many things. Why should we turn to it for anything given its dismal track record.

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Tell me the beginning of islam?

I am not here to debate with you that your religion is wrong or right, but My bible says, that, there is only one name given unto man for salvation and that is Jesus, if you go to where Mohammed was burried, the bones are still there, however, that of Jesus is no more, cos he has risen.

So koran is about a dead God and Bible is about a living God.

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How does any of these mean the book is inspired, whatever that means?

BTW, how long do you think the bible as existed as one single book, or as many disparate books?

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The koran. its the same as the bible. and i will like to know why the koran is wrong and the bible right or vice versa.

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Can anyone explain why the bible injunction on homosexuality ought to be observed while other laws/commandments are routinely ignored or not heeded?

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Tell me any book that has been so much fought against and still standing and being true.

Tell me any book that has been and the event recorded in it has been so real and happening by day.

tell me any authour that will wanna write a book and will pen down bad side as much as the bible did.

Cos God is not a respecter of person.

He has given us all right to chose btw the good and the bad.

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I bet, it is angle Michael that inspires Oprah. Is that not obvious from the decor of her studios and her dress. It is even possible to see little angels flying about during her appearances if you have got the right glasses.

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Well then, anyone can argue that God inspired them to write a book. How valid is ur argument really?

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Should God have grabbed a pen and paper and written the bible in heaven, then thrown it down to the earth? Obviously no, that's why amongst other reasons, He gave men the ability to write.

@ Topic; one of the ways the devil is confusing the church is by bringing up useless arguments like these when the bible is glaringly clear on them.

That's why he (devil) would get someone as influencial as Oprah Winfrey to give her own idea on 'spirituality', and make it sound as logical and innocent as possible. But it has confused and derailed so many christians. He's quite smart.

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OK, be that as it may, why should we observe these injunctions? We can just ignore them like the many other injunctions from the bible. Why is this any special than the others that Christians routinely ignore?

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Agreed with you on that, and that was why He added somewhere in the bible that no one shd add to the word of God, nor taken away from it.

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If i have shown u one and u dont blv it, possibilities of you belving after i show u million is equals to zero, however, here is another one

Romans 1:24-32:

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

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32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

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@ A_K_O : isnt it because a discussion on the thread already exisits ?

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no be him fault ohh you wan make the mohammad foot soldiers come cut off him head while brandashing their swords and chanting Allah is great.

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How can it be the word of God if its been edited over and over again.  

There are many mistakes and errors in the bible.

Plus there are too many versions, creating too much confusion.  "God is not a God of confusion"

Aramaic

Greek

Hebrew

NIV

KJV

Christain English

English standard

blah

blah

blah

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I don't believe any of this. Show me the evidence in the bible. Condemnation in one verse is not enough? Or, is it?

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***offtopic, pls forgive me***

See how Seun sharply responded to and locked this thread; chei

Fatwa no be small thin oh!

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-159114.0.html

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That is just one, there are so many in the bible, and like i said, for God to be so mad and destroy a whole city cos of it, that means, God dont joke with it.

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IF i give a paper and a pen and to write a letter on my behalf to someone and i gave you the words to write down, and you post the letter, who would they say sent the letter, would it be you or the owner of the words.

Bible is a word of God, inspired by HIm and penned by men.

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I don't think it is on this basis that homosexuality is condemned. If it is truly an abomination, there must surely be more than this.

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Bible is the words of men.

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Second off my interpretation of "judging" forming an my opinion on people.

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I just want to know if you believe that the bible is the word of god or the words of men and if you believe in any religion.

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Oyinye2 may I crave your indulgence to define your own idea of 'judging'.

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@ mazaje: doesn't look like my post.

I don't use the bible to support arguments.

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Kidding u with?

God loves everyone, but doesnt mean that he is happy with all we do

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are you kidding me?

@ madamkoko are you a christain?

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Questionable?

The bible is plain

nothing hidden

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My goal here is not to create a thread but imply that everything seems questionable under the christian religion.

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