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If There Is No Heaven Or Threat Of Hell, Will You Prefer Devil To God?

Lets assume you are not going to suffer for serving the devil. lets assume you can choose between God and devil the way you chose your wife or husband without any punishment. who do you think is better? Devil or God?

Honestly, devil looks more attractive to me. forget the word devil but look at what he can give. can you imagine the number of celebrities that are attending the church of satan?

devil makes life easier, quick money, fame, popularity.

lets be sincere, do you think people like bill gates are paying their tithe? why are they so rich?

if all these powers originated from God, why is the devil so liberal with it and God stingy with it, sorry borrow me better english.

please don't tell me you can choose between God and  devil according to the bible because you are being threatened with hell so the choice is not out of  freewill. it is like getting somebody to confess to terrorism in  PRESIDENT BUSH PRISON OF GUANTANAMO. don't bother to say i am not a christian because i am born again.

so, who will you  choose, devil or God assuming nobody cares? HYPOCRITES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CONTRIBUTE PLEASE

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54 answers

@PILGRIM

Quote from: PILGRIM

what is your own criteria for knowing a satanist?

One who declares himself to be a worshipper of satan the devil. Of course, there are other definitions used by other people; but I don't equate atheists to be satanists.

So if  your own criteria for knowing a satanist is if he declares himself to be worshiper of satan.

then your own criteria for knowing a christian too will be any that declares himself a worshiper of christ.

no, my dear. there is nothing in a name. and that is precisely what that encyclopaedia was talking about.

Jesus said by their fruit we will know them not by their name

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i have read it and of course you agreed with me. anyway, i have answered you in my previous posts and if you can go back and read them very well, you agreed with point blank

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if you also need a study where thousands of children are in support of the jewish actions, i will oblige you

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@PILGRIMAGE

did you read the encyclopedic link you provided.

they said satanist are technically atheist.

so you even agree with me  with the so called other definitions.

alright baby, i love you for  hiding your agreement with my position behind a link.

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things are not always the way they appear. let me tell you a story.

an elderly angel and a baby angel went to visit two different couples. when they got to the first family, they were not well treated. when they wanted to sleep at night they saw a big hole on the wall and the elderly angel closed it.

when they got to to the second family, they were well treated and the following morning, the man discovered that his only cow, the only property he had died. the baby angel was baffled and he challenged his superior. you blocked a hole in the house of a wicked man and killed the only cow of a good man. the elderly angel told him that you don't judge on the surface. he said he discovered that the hole was filled with hidden gold and because that man was wicked, he blocked it. so also, the angel of death wanted to kill the good man but he told the angel to kill his cow instead.

so what you see may not be all to the matter.

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in Yoruba land a proverb says ORI YEYE NI MOGUN, TAI SE LO PO i.e several people have been beheaded at the shrine of the god of iron that are innocent.

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If I got angry with you now and went to your family home with a machete killing everybody there would you say they were innocent? just answer simple questions bro or are you beginning to see the gruesome nature of your God?

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but you are not answering me too. are they really innocent?

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Just answer then we can look at the permutations

Is it right to kill innocent women and children?

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how do you know those children are innocent afterall?

have you heard about kid soldiers in troubled spots of africa?

do you think that if those children are killed at the war front that presumed you are killing innocent children?

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Brother I am not talking about the second world war, what I am asking you today helpee as a full grown human being who is full of the spirit of the Lord most high,

Is it right to kill innocent women and children?

Simple question really,

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what you are missing here is that the theme of the bible is not about jews or non jews, it is about God.

why were the jews succeeding with the killings despite the fact that they were a tiny nation.

you should also realise that the people that were living in bible times were human beings not angels so if WW2 could be that homicidal then it is not strange that it happened in the bible

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@helpee

I am not ready for circular arguments that have no end where you keep answering questions with questions, if in your mind you think that killing innocent people in the Name of and God is not wrong then fine, just hope you are not in the way of the next suicide bombing.

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Parochial partisanship have desensiticise many people from the horrors of the bible.  As a christian kid, I use to take the side of the Jews in all their reported trouble with the non-Jews, until the age of about 12/13 (when a more balance moral compass kicked in) when it dawn on me that barbarism is barbarism, pure and simple.

In fact, I tried this thought experiment with some nieces of mine some months ago.  Their parents are Christian evangelical pastors in a small congregation in the UK. I asked what their opinion was of all the murders orchestrated and committed by the Jews (in the old testament, Number 31, etc).  I was not surprise when they came out rooting for the Jews.  These are 13 and 14 years girls with little sense of moral justice.

In fact, a similar but more elaborate experiment was conducted amongst children in Israel recently, and the results were shocking.  I shall post the result when I can find the write-up.

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@chrisbenogor

Would I be wrong to say that? Did God not "deliver" their enemies unto them? The seven nations in Canaan? The first born sons in the land of Egypt( celebrated passover) ?

i guess you would have been more comfortable if God had delivered them into the hand of their enemies abi?

Please do not even start, you can go over to the homosexuality thread and read up. As for murderers, seems you do not read your bible well because it says even if they are murderers THOU SHALL NOT KILL. Why God fails to obey this commandment he gave to man is it not baffling eh?

THOU SHALL NOT KILL YOU SAY?

have you read the bible very well. kill what? animals, chicken, man, friends or enemies? if you know the answer, tell me. when God said thou shall not kill, did you bother to ask, kill what? so if IRAN should attack nigeria today, we will fold our arms and allow them to kill us because the bible said thou shall not kill.

[b]In summary before you start giving people labels like label company, If you believe in God and if you believe God is morally perfect and you believe the bible is God's inspired word but at the same time you believe the killing of innocent people( women and children) is morally wrong then you have some reconciling to do.

what you don't know is that God can't be moral because he is not a human being. He is only Just. that is why in justice, you can sentence somebody to death.

by the way, do you ever remind our judges that the bible says thou shall not kill? why do they sentence people to death

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@helpee

I think you approach the bible predisposed that all the teachings in the bible are good, while it is true that there are good teachings in the bible still there are a lot of stories that should really make one cringe and shudder, children are murdered in cold blood, people are stoned to death for the most petty offences, lets be honest dude where is the goodness in that.

Its no wonder that our history books are full of witch hunts, inquisitions and genocides that have wiped out people all done in the name of God.

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Did you know that the earth did not start from Gen 1 and that even the bible supports that?

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otherwise you should know that the existence of God pre-dates heaven.

have you forgotten genesis chapter1 where God created both heaven and earth.

so God is not existing because of heaven neither is the devil existing because oh hell

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@PILGRIM

I gave you a definition. If you ignored it because you want to force the title of satanist on everyone who does not fall

into your camp, I can bear with you.

the definition is that of a dragonist not a satanist. people worship different gods in the bible. even solomon worshipped strange gods and i don't think you will call him a satanist.

I pointed out that Bill Gates hasn't told you that he is a satanist, nor does he ascribe credit to the devil.

nobody comes out to say all glory be to devil. what you don't know is that what you don't say is as important as what you say. so if Bill Gate is not giving Glory to God, he even denies him, then he must be glorifying the devil.

The possessed man was not an atheist, nor did those demons cry out that they do not believe in God. As a matter of fact they referred to Christ as "Jesus, thou Son of God most high" (Luke 8:28). Does that sound like one claiming that there is no God?

don't quote me out of context. i am only saying that nobody is a vacuum. even in science, the space is not empty. so, if Bill Gate is expressly denying God then he must be occupied by the devil. don't even tell me the guy was just a genius to have founded microsoft. are you that naive? no, somebody is behind him and since we now know it is not God, who is it then? satan.

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Would I be wrong to say that? Did God not "deliver" their enemies unto them? The seven nations in Canaan? The first born sons in the land of Egypt( celebrated passover) ?

Did God not have a hand in all of them?

Please do not even start, you can go over to the homosexuality thread and read up. As for murderers, seems you do not read your bible well because it says even if they are murderers THOU SHALL NOT KILL. Why God fails to obey this commandment he gave to man is it not baffling eh?

In summary before you start giving people labels like label company, If you believe in God and if you believe God is morally perfect and you believe the bible is God's inspired word but at the same time you believe the killing of innocent people( women and children) is morally wrong then you have some reconciling to do.

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For someone to deny the existence of God and another to believe that God exists are worlds apart.

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@PILGRIM

Did you not quote that demons believe also in God and they tremble? Are you beginning to contradict yourself all in one evening?

i can't possibly see any contradiction there.

have you ever seen a politician tell a lie before in order to confuse and convince you.

of course demons believe in God in the sense that they know he exist but they will deny him so that people will not believe.

WE ALL KNOW  THAT OBASANJO BELIEVED IN 3RD TERM BUT HE DENIED IT. that is no contradiction

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@helpee,

I gave you a definition. If you ignored it because you want to force the title of satanist on everyone who does not fall into your camp, I can bear with you.

I pointed out that Bill Gates hasn't told you that he is a satanist, nor does he ascribe credit to the devil.

Did you not quote that demons believe also in God and they tremble? Are you beginning to contradict yourself all in one evening?

The possessed man was not an atheist, nor did those demons cry out that they do not believe in God. As a matter of fact they referred to Christ as "Jesus, thou Son of God most high" (Luke 8:28). Does that sound like one claiming that there is no God?

I am not an atheist.

I hear. They will tell you by themselves who they are.

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let me ask you my question

Do you not think it is satanic to let 20 million homosexual and murderers live in Sodom and Gomorrah?

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@PILGRIM

so the simple truth is that you don't even know who a satanist is hence you cant possibly know who a satanist is not?

in your previous post you said that because Bill Gate is not on the register of the church of satan, he is therefore not a

satanist.

the very essence of the devil is to deny the existence of God. it takes somebody that is well rooted in the devil to actually believe there is no God. when JESUS wanted to cast out those demons, they begged him to send them to the swine. Do you know why? devil is like HIV, it cant survive outside the body fluid. so also is man and everything God created. you cant just be on your own. so, if you seriously believe there is no God, it is because you seriously believe in an alternative satan.

my dear, atheist are satanist. pronto.

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@helpee,

I already said I do not find where God's Word referred to atheists as satanists. Do you have such a verse?

I didn't say that "the church of satan" was in the Bible; nor did I say that atheists are more or less satanic.

Depends on the definition of the term satanist. Try this one: "they worshipped the dragon" - Rev. 13:4.

One who declares himself to be a worshipper of satan the devil. Of course, there are other definitions used by other people; but I don't equate atheists to be satanists.

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@helpee

Do you no think it is satanic to let peopl kill 20 million people in your name?

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@PILGRIM

i want you to show me a single scripture where God called anybody satanist.

because some people called themselves the church of satan does not mean there is anything like that in the bible and it doesn't make them more satanic than atheist.

so tell me, who did God ever called a satanist?

what is your own criteria for knowing a satanist?

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If there is no heaven or threat of hell then why would God or the devil exist? silly chicken and egg scenario eh?

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@PILGRIM

The whole issue you have been struggling with is to make people who do not believe in God to be called satanists. I'm not one of those "Christian" to do so - because the Word of God does not teach such a thing. If it did, I would post the verses for you. Now, if there is no such verses, why would I falsely call them satanists? Is that not lying against people?

You are still hammering on this.

ok lets talk.

WHO IS A SATANIST by definition?

and if you study the topic very well, you will realize i mentioned the devil who of course is the satan.

so, tell me, God did not call atheist satanist, can you tell me what he called them?

we have only two powers in this world, God and satan, light and darkness. so far, you have not told me any alternative to this two and yet you place atheist under neither of them.

can you show me anywhere in the bible where God say that smoking is a sin? does that mean smoking is Good

can you show me where the bible says that Jesus went to toilet, does that mean he didn't. so the crap you are giving me that God did not call atheist satanist or better still demonic will not work here

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@helpee,

The whole issue you have been struggling with is to make people who do not believe in God to be called satanists. I'm not one of those "Christian" to do so - because the Word of God does not teach such a thing. If it did, I would post the verses for you. Now, if there is no such verses, why would I falsely call them satanists? Is that not lying against people?

Now, the question of why God gives wealth to people:

I believe that spirituality is not measured by wealth and materialism. There are all sorts of people who are wealthy - theists, atheists, satanists, deists, and agnostics, you name them. However, if we work hard and qualify oursleves educationally, we can be comfortable in life regardless of what worldviews we hold.

So, what's the difference? The difference is that when it comes to the deepest questions of the soul, man's experiences take a very different dimension - spirituality. There is something about knowing and enjoying fellowship with God such as money cannot buy. And when we even ask "WHY WONT GOD GIVE SUCH KNOWLEDGE AND WEALTH TO HIS PEOPLE," I don't think that He "won't" give such knowledge to His people.

The word clearly says:  "But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day." [Deut. 8:18]

So, what's the problem? Perhaps one possible reason is that so many of us have not taken the time to calm down and work hard enough to utilize that power. Thankfully, though, we have a lot of Christians who are role-models in this aspect of life: they are scientists, politicians, policy-formulators, investors, inventors, business owners and media moguls. Yes, there are many of such Christian men and women. Yet, God does not rule by making non-believers poor and destitute.

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Honestly the devil looks tempting, but only the greedy and the wicked would give in to the promises. Why have more money in the world when other people are suffering. I think for once what we should advocate is a world where we treat everyone as we will like to be treated, you do not need religion to do that. Most times I think people just use religion to soothe their consciences because of the the atrocities they commit daily, we need not look far just look at our politicians.

So if you ask me any one that advocates a fair treatment to all!

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I think your contribution is more foolish and senseless than the topic.

by the way, have you ever been told that the only time you appear to have some sense is when you keep shut?

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@PILGRIM

i must confess that you displaying a new kind of Christianity.

a firebrand christian that will go and look for incompatible scriptures to defend atheist.

i dont want this to be boring otherwise i will start quoting scriptures for you too to prove my point.

alright. i agree with you. atheist are not satanist they must christian then.

no diversion here. let us agree that BILL GATES IS AN ATHEIST SO ALSO BUFFET.

the question is WHY IS IT THAT THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS?

WHY WONT GOD GIVE SUCH KNOWLEDGE AND WEALTH TO HIS PEOPLE RATHER THAN ALLOW UNBELIEVERS TO ENJOY EVERYTHING?

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Very very silly topic. All this foolish name tags that make no sense, god, satan, heaven, hell, satanist, athiests etc. What a bunch of deluded fools!

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@helpee,

Please go read Revelation 3 from verse 14 - nowhere did Jesus accuse anyone of what you're forcing into that scripture.

As a firebrand Christian, I refrain from making false allegations about anyone:

Exo. 20:16 ~ Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Exo. 23:1 ~ Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand

with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

Exo. 23:7 ~ Keep thee far from a false matter

Job 36:4 ~ For truly my words shall not be false:

he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.

Prov. 11:1 ~ A false balance is abomination to the LORD:

but a just weight is his delight.

Prov. 25:18 ~ A man that beareth false witness against his neighbour is a maul,

and a sword, and a sharp arrow.

There is an abundant harvest of texts warning pilgrim.1 to desist from making false allegations against anyone - and this is why I cannot falsely accuse atheists of what God never called them. Atheists are not satanists.

I hear.

Yes, thank you. But that does not translate into making atheists the same as satanists.

He never told you that he is a satanist.

Those whom the Word declared as such. It does not mean that everyone who would go there is a satanist, because they are not all accused of being satanists - please Revelation 21:8. That verse says that some people who are liars will go to Hell as well; so it will benefit us nothing to claim to be firebrand Christians and keep making false accusations against people.

I desire that people come to know the saving love of Jesus Christ. But that does not mean I should go about describing them as satanists. God says everyone (including pilgrim.1) shall give account of every word we have spoken; so if I begin to speak lies against atheists, where did God call them such things as satanists? Can I show from His word? No, I have no such verses. There are people who are described as not knowing God - in Acts 17:23, Paul did not go about accusing the Athenians to be satanists. They would have thanked him and shown him the coast with a persona-nongrata visa never to return to their shores! The wise apostle, however, showed them the love of the Saviour.

I beg your pardon? See my answer up - I don't see how atheists are called satanists regardless of where they will go.

Where did God refer to atheists as satanists, sir?

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@PILGRIM

so what did jesus say about the church? he said if they are neither warm or cold. warm means they accept jesus and cold means they are satanist. neither warm or cold means they are atheist.

look, as a firebrand christian, i am surprised you refrain from calling atheist satanist. they are worse. Do you know the bible say that EVEN THE DEMONS KNOW ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD AND TREMBLE.

If demons could fear God and Bill don't care, then i wonder who he is.

so if i may ask you, WHO WILL GO TO HELL?

i know you will say satan and his people

SO, WHERE WILL ATHEIST GO?

since they don't believe in God and they are not satanic, i guess they will be on the sideline abi?

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Whatever the devil gives you is not free he will come back for it. He will give you something with one hand and takes it with the other hand

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@helpee,

I'm sorry, but my Christianity does not teach me to go about accusing people of what they did not call upon themselves. I did that in the past and gained nothing but a vexation of spirit that was drowing my life. Since I came to know Christ, the difference is too obvious for me to deny.

I'm not running to atheists to defend Bill Gates. My point was that since some like Warren Buffet did not believe in God, they may be atheists (inferring from the website you recommended - [http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/07/07/warren-buffet-atheist-philanthropist.htm]), but that doesn't make them satanists. It is not in my place to accuse people falsely; nor does Christianity teach me to do so.

When God was speaking to the Church in Laodicea in Revelation 3:14, He never accused them of being atheists or even treated them worse than atheists. I don't see how one should be forcing such accusations where they don't belong. Meanwhile, na you know whether there is nothing like atheism - I will leave those who are atheists to come tell you themselves, as it is not in my place to speak for them.

Thank you again, and warm regards.

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@PILGRIM

with all your acclaimed christianity i am surprised that you dont know that atheism is worse than satanism.God was speaking to the church in the book of Revelation and he said that if you are neither warm or cold, it is worse than to be completely cold. common there is nothing like atheism. if you are not for us then you are against us. at least, thats what jesus said. nobody can sit on the fence. i am disappointed that you are now running to atheist to come and defend Bill Gate

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if you care to know too WARREN BUFFET is the second richest man in the world and he too doesnt believe in God

check this link

http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/07/07/warren-buffet-atheist-philanthropist.htm

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@PILGRIM

ALRIGHT. i have the priviledge to tell you that BILL GATES dont believe in GOD

check this link

http://packetstormsecurity.org/unix-humor/bill.gates.quotes.html

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_Bill_Gates_is_not_in_any_religion_why_is_he_blessed_with_so_much_money

http://www.wisdomquotes.com/003457.html

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[b]

i hope you are not trying to deceive yourself here.

what kind of a christian is that? attend Anglican but believe that trinity is false. also believes arianism is the true form of christianity. refused sacrament even on his death bed.

have you forgotten that many ogboni cultist are anglicans?

check this link too, http://www.adherents.com/people/pn/Isaac_Newton.html

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I only looked, yet; and I see they were going on about Newton's alchemy; that's what I'd meant when I'd written "he was more, "; one could look closer, but it's (intuitively) a long stretch; we know alchemy; everyone who was smart got sucked-in in those days, including poor Newton.

.

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check this link. i will give you more if you are not satisfied

http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_bookreviews/bkrev_isaacnewton.htm

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why are you so particular about Bill Gates?

i never said he is of the devil, i only said he doesnt pay his tithe, at least not full tithe.

moreso, did Bill Gate also informed you that he is for God?

speak for yourself, who will you choose if nobody cares, God or Devil?

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Really?

Tell me. What cult?

Don't forget the confirmation too.

We live to learn, no?

.

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helpee's here laying bare the religious form of the Bushian ' you're either with us or against us' theme. Apparently, if you're not with God, then you're with the Devil. And since Billy G ain't with God, must mean he's with the devil . . .

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