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Is Everyone Born With Original Sin?

Is everyone born with original sin? When does orginal sin get into the human entity? Do foetuses, fertelised eggs and stillborns have orginal sin?

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Pre-crap after all your claims of that you will respond to the queries, we are yet to see it, could it be that you have no answers to give.

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Pre-crap if you read closely the place I quoted the bible was placed within a quote"", while additional statement where left out of the quote, so quit all this whining and answer the question instead of dodging it.

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@Precap2: Below is your Luke 12 verse 49 thru 51.

Luke 12:49-51 "I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled! 12.50 I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished! 12.51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division;

and luke 22 verse 38

The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

the confusion is no more. like Jesus said it is finish.

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You know that you have the strange tactics of communist extremists. You just quoted a scriptural passage and inserted your own just to prove the main point you had in mind.

The part that said "Lord, behold, here are two SWORDS." And he said unto them, "it is enough". Is it part of the Luke 12:49 & 51 or did you invent it just to prove your main point?

Please answer this question so that I can now post the whole reply to your other quotes in context, citing the entire portion so we can understand what the main talk was. cutting out a part of main quote can and is always very misleading. For instance, if vodaxcool makes the following statement "Even if Muhammad is mad, he could not have uttered such a word" and I want to quote it and take this part "Muhammad is mad" - vodaxcool. Would you say I quoted you? Yet what I quoted was part of your statement. Won't you say?

Holla moi!

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JESUS PRAYED TO GOD TO RESCUE HIM

JESUS PRAYS FOR RESCUE

". . . and began to be sorrowful and very depressed. Then saith he unto them, ‘my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death' . . ."

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face (Exactly as the Muslim does in Salaat), and prayed, saying, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

(This is the quality of a good Muslim who submits his will to the will of God).

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26: 37-39

Was the prayer of Jesus (pbuh) being answered? He had cried (o the loving father in heaven for help, with strong crying and tears:

"And being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly;

and his sweat was, as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground"

(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:44

What can be expected from such heart-felt prayer and importuning? One of the four brothers1 of Jesus reminds us that:

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

(HOLY BIBLE) James 5:16

GOD ACCEPTED JESUS' PRAYERS

Paul confirms that his supplications did not fall on deaf ears:

"Who, in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was HEARD in that he feared."

(HOLY BIBLE) Hebrews 5:7

What does it mean "God heard" his prayers! It means that God accepted his prayers. God Almighty is not deaf at any time. He is the All-Hearing God. He heard (accepted) the supplication of Jesus in the same way that He had heard (accepted) the prayer of father Abraham. Abraham, in his old-age had prayed for a son, and Ishmael was born. The words of Abraham had become flesh. Ishmael literally means "GOD HEARD", in Hebrew. Zakariah also in his old-age prayed for a son, and God heard (accepted) his prayers, and John the Baptist was born. Now Jesus cried for help, and God heard (accepted) his prayers:

"And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him."

(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:43

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When i saw your post i smiled. The tears of a man should not be confused with the tears of a child. For where a child will cry for anything a man will cry for one thing.

Jesus was not trying to be brave. He was not dying for just a cause. He was dying for the world. He left all He was, the bible said He had been with the Father from the beginning. You can not imagine the pain of separation He experienced. His tears or "unwillingness" serves to remind us of the burden of the cross. I like the way the Jews said it, He saved others lets see how He will save Himself. Then you begin to understand it was more than an "unwillingness". Remember He died as a man. The burden simply broke Him.

This should help you understand why Paul said we were bought with a price. Not a sacrifice, a price. And truly He was the price for all man that will believe in Him. That is why i love Him.

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Jesus himself answered you when he said "The Spirit is willing (ready) but the body is weak". If you have any reason to doubt that Jesus said the above then I'll get you the quotation when I return to my PC. Jesus was called both "The Son of God, and the Son of Man", he has a human side, that was why the scripture said he was tempted just like all of us and yet he sinned not. He is the Word made flesh.

Jesus was not an Arab that has always had hardened heart to kill other humans, shouting allahu akbar. Neither is he your famous movie war hero. He is the Son of God.

I do not offer this by way of proof of anything as vodaxcool requested, but only to expose the scripture to you.

God does not share in your values. You value someone who shouts allahu akbar and blow himself up with other human beings, but have you asked yourself "What does God value?"

Holla moi!

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Me prove to you? It would be a useless venture. I can only state the truth whether I prove something or nothing to you. No human has been able to prove anything to a mind that is made up. My whole effort is geared towards telling the truth to those who come with an open mind and not to those who seek proof to further reinforce their prior positions Grin.

I love you guys so much and would always continue in prayer for an effectual salvation for your souls, while I continue to give you sound words from the book of life.

Holla moi!

so you mean there is no proof to your stated myth, hence you are contented being a LIAR.

As for the book of truth I only hope you can address what nonpuqeater has thrown at you.

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Precap2, my brother vedaxcool posted a piece on "my God, my God, " thread. from it i present something that is truth about Jesus of the Bible and analysis of people who have open mind, as they read your Bible;

AN UN-WILLING VICTIM

If this was God's plan for a vicarious atonement to redeem mankind, then obviously He had chosen a wrong substitute. This candidate was most reluctant to die. Arming! Wailingi Sweating! Crying! Complaining! 1 Contrast these responses with those of Lord Nelson, a war-hero, who gave up the ghost with these undying words:

"THANK GOD, I HAVE DONE MY DUTY!". There are millions today, who would happily immolate themselves for king and country, with smiles on their faces, with shouts of "Amandhia!" or "Allahu-akbar!" or "God save the Queen!" Jesus was an un-willing victim. If this was God's scheme of salvation, then it was a heartless plot. It was murder in the first degree, and not redeeming self-sacrifice.

is there any part of it, you disagree with? state your case with proof.

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@Precap2: « #167 on: Today at 12:12:05 PM »

You will now have to proof to us what material[s] was the correct christianity kept in, which made the founder know it is correct and what the catholic practice is wrong, except that the protestants, which i think you are copied the catholic Bibles and threw some books away from it. the catholics from all intense and purpose looking at it from the christian prizm must have the original while the protestants have the counterfeit, since they copied the catholic, less the books they refused to write, unless you will have to proof that there was a Bible different from the catholics which the protestants copied from.

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vedaxcool <---- Does the truth always elicit the above kind of response from you? It is only the truth that will set you free. Simple. I have not said much yet and you're going this insane. Maybe if you invite me to reveal more of the truth to you, then you'll have a good life in Christ Jesus. Just look into your soul and ask yourself from within: I'm I not living in bondage the way I am? Am I living according to what The Almighty would stipulate for His beloved children? But no, you're not a child of God. You're his slave according to your kind of language. Do all to become a child of God and a slave only for his work (meaning, working like a slave to establish the Kingdom of truth in Christ Jesus)

Bless ya

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No, Roman catholic is not the first church. Indeed it is the last church. Rome was the last place the apostles preached and established a church. The Romans couldn't stay with the true christian character so they built their own model of christianity.

aye Christianity got to Nigeria before Rome madness indeed.

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No, you muslims cannot distance yourselves from Roman catholics because Muhammad could not. He (Muhammad) was the foremost mercenary of the Roman church to bring Jerusalem under Roman control. Muhammad adopted all Roman church system because he was himself a Roman catholic before the illusion at the temple of Allah. He still could not form a different religion, he was so much under the influence of the Roman church that it deeply permeated the new religion he was forming. Islam became a religion that seeks to worship the Arabian sun god in the then acceptable christian manner. The Christian was unfortunately the Roman church.

reading the above you will come to the conclusion that indeed:

MADNESS IS INDEED HARD TO CORRECT, BUT YOUR MISSIONARY MADDNESS IS IMPOSIBLE TO RECTIFY, PRE-CRAP MAADNESS PUSHES HIM TO INVENT LIES AND MYTH,POOR CHAP. ALL LIARS SHALL GO TO HELL

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No, Roman catholic is not the first church. Indeed it is the last church. Rome was the last place the apostles preached and established a church. The Romans couldn't stay with the true christian character so they built their own model of christianity.

No, you muslims cannot distance yourselves from Roman catholics because Muhammad could not. He (Muhammad) was the foremost mercenary of the Roman church to bring Jerusalem under Roman control. Muhammad adopted all Roman church system because he was himself a Roman catholic before the illusion at the temple of Allah. He still could not form a different religion, he was so much under the influence of the Roman church that it deeply permeated the new religion he was forming. Islam became a religion that seeks to worship the Arabian sun god in the then acceptable christian manner. The Christian was unfortunately the Roman church.

You can never delete history no matter how hard you try. The remnant will still remain. Just as the so called Church in your terms tried to hide the Bible from the people but could not. Truth cannot be hidden. NEVER!

Holla moi!

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I have always told you that Roman Catholics are the people that muslims are copying. They are not Christians in the Bible sense of it. I can be quoted wrong many times but not from the Bible. Maybe from your head or some non scriptural writing.

Holla!

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Now daftom, where did the Qur'an claims that Allah revealed the Injeel to Mathew, Mark, Luke etc, you see dullard, Allah never mentioned Mark and co in the Qur'an, so this new testament ( the entire book does not have a name, no where does the "new testament" calls itself the new testament) is not the Injeel, that we Muslims are told of in the Qur'an, even the author of the so called NT are ananimous there is no conclusive proof to show mark wrote mark, mathew wrote mathew, when people decede to accept anything from GOD then one cannot blame the usual confusion we witness. furthermore you want us to believe that you do not accept the OT as being from GOD then examine your head cause even JESUS followed it, Anyway let me give you ignoramus verse from the NT that supports Violence

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34).

But those mine enemies, who would not that I should REIGN over them, bring them hither, and SLAY them before me"-

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@Aletheia: « #159 on: Today at 09:05:36 PM »

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^Thought as much, you spiritual descendant of Amalek. You couldn't find a single supporting verse from the Injeel (the one you say Christians corrupted). Some of the verses quoted above, you wrested out of context. The context and explanation of the others you will find in Genesis 6:4, Number 13:33, Deut 2:20-21, Deut 3:11; not that it will make any sense to you seeing as there is a dullness over your understanding.

This is written in the OT.

Genesis 9:5-6. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

And this is written in the NT.

Matthew 26:52. Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Romans 12:19. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

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Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses’ army to “utterly destroy” 60 cities, killing all the women and children within!

Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations. He even adds, “show no mercy unto them”.

Deuteronomy 20:16 God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the cities that he gives us for an inheritance

Now this are just a few of the bunker verses that the crusaders used to justify their cruelty and evil, unless again you will say you people use the old testament is for aestethic reasons, so we will say they were following biblical injuctions and ways and hence they they doing "Good" by the old testament.

"Take all the heads of the people

and hang them up before the Lord

against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4

", They shall fall by the sword:

their infants shall be dashed in

pieces, and their women with child

(pregnant) shall be ripped up!"

direct quote from YHWH -- Hosea 13:16

Their children shall be dashed

to pieces before their eyes!

There houses spoiled, and their

wives Molested, Dash the young men

to pieces, have no pity on the

fruit of the womb, the children

shall not be spared"

-- Isa 13:16-18

This are just some of the verses inquisitors and crusaders got their "good" advice and historical "goodness" to learn from, hence they are following the footsteps of their godfathers.

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I asked you some questions above, only for you to avoid answering them. Goes to show, you don't even know the religion you are professing. At least your compatriot nopuqeater tried, only to entangle himself in contradictions.

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God loves you, God is the most forgiving and most merciful. Christianity claims God did not forgive the actions of Adam for millenniums , while Islam teaches Adam was forgiven the same moment Adam repented, and that death is a natural cycle , not a prolonged curse from our Loving God .

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Only the suicide bombers will go to heaven, otherwise how would they get their virgins? There are no virgins in hell fire.

In christianity only those who partook in the Inquisition and crusades will make it to Heaven, in their book that is what qualifies you to be in heaven,

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@Precap2: « #150 on: Yesterday at 09:43:11 PM »

Jesus agreed with Muhammad is the obvious choice. It proves what we have been saying all along; Muhammad is the natural successor to Jesus in the offices of comforter, prophethood, mesengership.

Jesus was not in the position to tell Muhammad what to do or say since Jesus did not have the authority to, but God Allah (Eloi) does have the Authority.

If Jesus disagrees with Muhammad, Jesus was overwhelmed because other prophet and messengers that Muhammad saw are on the side of Muhammad. Afterall, no one of them says a human being is God.

At least you can under stand these simple explanatons.

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^^^^Your questions have been answered. Just like every sommunity, we have our bad eggs, too. After al we are humans behaving humanly. But you were trying to tell us though that the messenger will go to hell to be punished saying by it that no one will go unpunished among the brand of islam that Muhammad (AS) brought, since event the chairman, Muhammad will be punished by the Lord Who sent hm as His servant in the first place!

Go to the thread. I hae answered it as best as I can. Allah is the One Who answers best.

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@vedaxcool: I asked you and your cohort in an earlier post some questions which you seem to be avoiding answers to. For the benefit of doubt and in order not to derail this thread, I have opened another thread here, where you can give me the answers I seek. No waffling. Convince us of why Islam is the best. I await your answers.

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But you initially said this:

And now you agree that bad Muslims go to Hell.

So that raises the question: Who is the good Muslim that goes to Heaven without entering Hell? Even you vedaxcool can not answer that question for you have no way of knowing before the Day of Judgment whether you have done enough good deeds to qualify as a "good" Muslim.

Even Muhammad the "best" Muslim in his own words says on the Day of Judgment he will be in Hell!

#1. This Hadith says that Muhammad is not in heaven right now but he is waiting for the 'Day of Judgment' to go into heaven and he will be the first to cross the bridge to go to heaven as we read this

#2. Hadith Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345 also says that while Muhammad was in this world he ascended into heaven and saw many prophets and other Bible characters like Adam, Moses, Jesus and Abraham.

Questions that vedaxcool, et al should give us answers to:

#1. If your prophet saw the paradise while he was still alive and on this earth why he should wait to go to heaven after his death?

#2. Where is your prophet right now and why he is waiting for the 'Day of Judgment?

#3. Why could he not reach heaven while he saw many ancient prophets and the first human of this planet earth - Adam who lived many thousands of years before him.

#4. All are in heaven but your prophet says, he will reach heaven on the Day of Judgment, why?

It is written:

Romans 3:23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Romans 6:23. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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ALIAR-TEARS, IT IS A PITY THAT YOUR LIES are only second the devil's deceit as i have explained the Hadith, refers to bad Muslims, as Nonpugeter has written and I concur and express in my writings you are a great Liar one who engages in Misquoting people I cannot blame u as Paul has sanctioned you Lies in his words If through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner." (Romans 3:7),so go on lieing as it is a christain virturewe to engage in such and as for accepting your religion count me out as the authors of the Bible crafted failed prophecies which I shall quote

1- Genesis, Chapter No. 4, Verse No. 12, it says… ‘God told Cain: you will never be able to settle you will be a wanderer.’ Few Verses later on Genesis, Chapter No.4, Verse No.17, says…‘Cain built up a city’ – unfulfilled prophecy.

2- If you read Jeremiah, Chapter No.36, Verse No.30, it says that…‘Jehoiachin the father of Jehoiachin… no one will be able to sit on his throne - The throne of David, no one will be able to sit after Jehoiachin.’ If you read later on, II Kings, Chapter No 24, Verse No 6, it says that… ‘Jehoiachin after he died, later on Jehoiachin sat on the throne’ - Unfulfilled prophecy.

3- One is sufficient to prove it is not the word of God - I can give plenty. If you read Ezekiel, Chapter No 26, it says that…‘Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre.’ We come to know that Alexander the great, was the person who destroyed Tyre - Unfulfilled prophecy.

4- Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ They say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

Before stuffing Bible in my throat go and ask your failing bible why it fails and like I indicated in one of my thread why did Jesus shout My God My God why have thou forsaken, if wisdom still abides in your head why would your suppose savior accused his master or himself (myself myself why have I forsaken me, if Jesus WAS god?) of forsaking him when he knows what his mission entails and then die in Islam that is unbelief, keep you forsaking religion to yourself,were Jesus (How false your bible is) called non Jews dog,in the incidence where he said to the women why cast the bread of the children to the dogs or was it pigs, Anyway one cannot blame you as religion if not done with reason can be a brain wash to people like you.

A word is enough for the wise

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Have you lost interest in literature? Or is this the best you can do? How can you read something and cut out a part that is rhetorical just to prove a useless point? Here is Roma 3: 7 & 8, and I'll not offer any explanation until you say what you understand there:

7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

8 and not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

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ALIAR-TEARS, IT IS A PITY THAT YOUR LIES  are only second the devil's deceit as i have explained the Hadith, refers to bad Muslims, as Nonpugeter has written and I concur and express in my writings you are a great Liar one who engages in Misquoting people I cannot blame u as Paul has sanctioned you Lies in his words If through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner." (Romans 3:7),so go on lieing as it is a christain virturewe to engage in such and as for accepting your religion count me out as the authors of the Bible crafted failed prophecies which I shall quote

1-  Genesis, Chapter No. 4, Verse No. 12, it says… ‘God told Cain: you will never be able to settle you will be a wanderer.’ Few Verses later on Genesis, Chapter No.4, Verse No.17, says…‘Cain built up a city’ – unfulfilled prophecy.

2-  If you read Jeremiah, Chapter No.36, Verse No.30,  it says that…‘Jehoiachin the father of Jehoiachin… no one will be able to sit on his throne - The throne of David, no one will be able to sit after Jehoiachin.’ If you read later on, II Kings, Chapter No 24, Verse No 6, it says that… ‘Jehoiachin after he died, later on Jehoiachin sat on the throne’ - Unfulfilled prophecy.

3-  One is sufficient to prove it is not the word of God - I can give plenty. If you read Ezekiel, Chapter No 26, it says that…‘Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre.’ We come to know that Alexander the great, was the person who destroyed Tyre - Unfulfilled prophecy.

4-  Isaiah, Chapter No. 7, Verse No 14, says, prophesying of…‘The coming of a person who will be born to a virgin - his name shall be Emmanuel.’ They say… the Christians - it refers to Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Born to a virgin - the Hebrew word there is ‘amla’, which means not ‘a virgin’- ‘a young lady.’ The word for ‘virgin’ in Hebrew is, ‘baitula’, which is not there. Even if you agree - we are using concordance - we agree… ‘Virgin’… ‘Virgin’ - No problem. It says… ‘He will be called Immanuel.’ No where in the Bible is Jesus Christ peace be upon him, is called as Immanuel - Unfulfilled prophecy.

Before stuffing Bible in my throat go and ask your failing bible why it fails and like I indicated in one of my thread why did Jesus shout My God My God why have thou forsaken, if wisdom still abides in your head why would your suppose savior accused his master or himself (myself myself why have I forsaken me,  if Jesus WAS god?) of forsaking him when he knows what his mission entails and then die in Islam that is unbelief, keep you forsaking religion to yourself,were Jesus (How false your bible is) called non Jews dog,in the incidence where he said to the women why cast the bread of the children to the dogs or was it pigs, Anyway one cannot blame you as religion if not done with reason can be a brain wash to people like you.

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As for those that claim that Jesus came to die for their sins( may be they love sinning) here are some food for thought

1. Jesus prayed to God to make this cup pass over him, in other words God save me

2. God heard his prayer, in other word God accepted his prayer because God hears all the time, the "heard" is metaphorical for acceptance.

3. Jesus before giving up the ghost shouted My God my God why have thou Forsaken me, this only goes to show that he was an unwilling to die for your sins.

4. If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?

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Liar! Liar!! Liar!!!

Tell the Truth!

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 601:

Narrated Ma'bad bin Hilal Al'Anzi:

We, i.e., some people from Basra gathered and went to Anas bin Malik, and we went in company with Thabit Al-Bunnani so that he might ask him about the Hadith of Intercession on our behalf. Behold, Anas was in his palace, and our arrival coincided with his Duha prayer. We asked permission to enter and he admitted us while he was sitting on his bed. We said to Thabit, "Do not ask him about anything else first but the Hadith of Intercession." He said, "O Abu Hamza! There are your brethren from Basra coming to ask you about the Hadith of Intercession." Anas then said, "Muhammad talked to us saying, 'On the Day of Resurrection the people will surge with each other like waves, and then they will come to Adam and say, 'Please intercede for us with your Lord.' He will say, 'I am not fit for that but you'd better go to Abraham as he is the Khalil of the Beneficent.' They will go to Abraham and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Moses as he is the one to whom Allah spoke directly.' So they will go to Moses and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Jesus as he is a soul created by Allah and His Word.' (Be: And it was) they will go to Jesus and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Muhammad.'

They would come to me and I would say, 'I am for that.' Then I will ask for my Lord's permission, and it will be given, and then He will inspire me to praise Him with such praises as I do not know now. So I will praise Him with those praises and will fall down, prostrate before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for your will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' And then it will be said, 'Go and take out of Hell (Fire) all those who have faith in their hearts, equal to the weight of a barley grain.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down (prostrate) before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' It will be said, 'Go and take out of it all those who have faith in their hearts equal to the weight of a small ant or a mustard seed.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down in prostration before Him. It will be said, 'O, Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers!' Then He will say, 'Go and take out (all those) in whose hearts there is faith even to the lightest, lightest mustard seed. (Take them) out of the Fire.' I will go and do so."'

When we left Anas, I said to some of my companions, "Let's pass by Al-Hasan who is hiding himself in the house of Abi Khalifa and request him to tell us what Anas bin Malik has told us." So we went to him and we greeted him and he admitted us. We said to him, "O Abu Said! We came to you from your brother Anas Bin Malik and he related to us a Hadith about the intercession the like of which I have never heard." He said, "What is that?" Then we told him of the Hadith and said, "He stopped at this point (of the Hadith)." He said, "What then?" We said, "He did not add anything to that." He said, Anas related the Hadith to me twenty years ago when he was a young fellow. I don't know whether he forgot or if he did not like to let you depend on what he might have said." We said, "O Abu Said ! Let us know that." He smiled and said, "Man was created hasty. I did not mention that, but that I wanted to inform you of it.

Anas told me the same as he told you and said that the Prophet added, 'I then return for a fourth time and praise Him similarly and prostrate before Him me the same as he 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request): and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted .' I will say, 'O Lord, allow me to intercede for whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshiped except Allah.' Then Allah will say, 'By my Power, and my Majesty, and by My Supremacy, and by My Greatness, I will take out of Hell (Fire) whoever said: 'None has the right to be worshipped except Allah.' ''

From the Above you will note that the hadith talks of Muslims with little faith not those with strong faith as you will observe that it says those with"faith in their hearts, equal to the weight of a barley grain." and agin"who have faith in their hearts equal to the weight of a small ant or a mustard seed.'" etc it says those , once again aliar'thia your lies are almost at par with the devil's lies.

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More on the hell stuff

Book 031, Number 6090:

Umm Mubashshir reported that she heard Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying in presence of Hafsa: God willing, the people of the Tree would never enter the fire of Hell one amongst those who owed allegiance under that. She said: Allah's Messenger, why not? He scolded her. Hafsa said: And there is none amongst you but shall have to pass over that (narrow Bridge). Thereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, has said: We would rescue those persons who are God-conscious and we would leave the tyrants to their fate there (xix. 72).

In conclusion, we have examined the different opinions surrounding this topic and we have demonstrated that the strongest opinion is that waariduha in the verse refers to crossing over hell on the sirat

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I told you calling someone a liar because he's not dining with Muhammad is wrong, but I won't say it again. If that is your best manners, then enjoy.

But let me tell you something, Christians are a special breed, they're not ordinary and most of the things we talk will sound so esoteric to you because you walk according to the flesh. JESUS is the Son of the Most High God, Jesus is also God and deserves our praise and worship. You can't rule it out. See what he said himself, Mark ch 16:17-18

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; IN MY NAME shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Did you see that? Not in the name of Muhammad could such things happen, it's in the Name of Jesus Christ. Do you need more to know how Jesus and our Father are the same? Read what follow, Matthew 28:19

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

This is the Word of God. So you baptize in the Name of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy spirit. It's not in the invention of any man. It's God Himself speaking.

Come to Jesus Christ today and have a new and beautiful life.

Holla!

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@nopuqeater:

Such a long post! And yet for all the words, ramblingly incoherent. Like I pointed out earlier; that Muslims on this forum are so quick to hurl insults at those who disagree with them only shows the kind of spirit that animates them. As Aldous Huxley once said: "A fanatic is a man who consciously over compensates a secret doubt."

Do you think only Muslims read the qur'an and hadiths and so you can come here and pull the wool over our eyes. Here is what your qur'an says about the fate of all Muslims! The problem is that the qur'an was beaten into you while you were young in a language not Yoruba; without you undertaking the necessity of studying it to understand what the Arabic words actually mean! Indeed you are like those Jesus described as:

According to surah 19:70-72, everyone will enter into hell, including Muslims:

Then We shall pluck forth from every party whichever of them was the most hardened in disdain of the All-merciful; then We shall know very well those most deserving to burn there. Not one of you there is, but he shall go down to it; that for thy Lord is a thing decreed, determined. Then We shall deliver those that were godfearing; and the evildoers We shall leave there, hobbling on their knees.

A host of translations, hadiths and commentaries show that Muslims understood the passage to mean that all of them will enter hell.

Here is how Muslims render the word wurood in S. 19:71.

1. Muslim Translations of the qur'an

    There is not one of you but shall approach it… Pickthall

    Not one of you but will pass over it… Y. Ali

    And there is not one of you but shall pass over it… Daryabadi

    There is not a single one of you, who shall not pass over it… F. Malik

    There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell)… Hilali-Khan

    And there is not one of you but shall come to it… M.M Ali

    And every one of you will come within sight of it… Asad

    And there is not one of you but shall come to it… Shakir

    And there is not one of you but will come to it… Sher Ali

    And there is none of you except he will come to it… SAHEEH INTERNATIONAL

    there is not one of you but he will be led up to it… T.B. Irving

    Every single one of you must see it… Khalifa

    There is none among you, (O those condemned to Hell!), but shall reach there (- the Hell)… Amatul & ‘Abdul Manan ‘Omar

    It is the inevitable decree of your Lord that every one of you will be taken to hell. Muhammad Sarwar

2. The Quran’s Use of Wurood

In several places the Quran uses different forms of the word wurood in the same context of people entering hell.

He will go before his people on the Day of Judgment, and lead them into the Fire (fa awradahumu alnnara) (as cattle are led to water): But woeful indeed will be the place to which they are led! S. 11:98 Y. Ali

But the sinners will we drive unto (wirdan) Hell, like flocks driven to the watering. S. 19:86 Rodwell

Verily, ye, and what ye worship beside God, shall be fuel for hell: ye shall go down into it (waridoona). S. 21:98 Rodwell

The only possible meaning in these contexts is that evildoers will actually enter into hell itself. Interestingly, 19:86 appears in the same surah just some fifteen verses after 19:71. Since these contexts are virtually identical to 19:71 it therefore follows to reason that the meaning will be the same as well, especially when some fifteen verses later the same word is used in connection with sinners literally entering hell.

Furthermore, the verse right after 19:71 supports the view that people will literally enter hell:

"And there is not one of you but will come to it. This is an absolute decree of thy Lord. And WE shall save the righteous, and shall leave the wrongdoers therein, on their knees."

The statement that Allah will deliver the righteous and leave the wrongdoer in hell presumes that the righteous are in there as well.

Hence, the usage of the term wurood within the Quran in contexts similar to 19:71, as well as the immediate context of the passage itself, conclusively point in the direction of all people, including all Muslims, having to enter into hell for a short while.

3. SAHIH AL-BUKHARI

. . .Anas then said, "Muhammad talked to us saying, 'On the Day of Resurrection THE PEOPLE will surge with each other like waves, and then they will come to Adam and say, 'Please intercede for us with your Lord.'…

. . . Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for your will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' And then it will be said, 'Go and take out of Hell (Fire) all those who have faith in their hearts, equal to the weight of a barley grain.'

[It goes on and on in the same vein]

. . .Then Allah will say, 'By my Power, and my Majesty, and by My Supremacy, and by My Greatness, I will take out of Hell (Fire) whoever said: 'None has the right to be worshipped except Allah.'" (Volume 9, Book 93, Number 601)

^^Who are the followers of Muhammad, if not people like nopuqeater!

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and when I call Precap2 a lying rug he will be bent out of shape. my responses to the long posts by the kiriyo keferis are in tradition of the Bible. After all the Bible said two things, according to you: Love your God with all your heart and your neighbors like yourself (OT) and there are 3 gods and jesus being one of them died on the cross and his spilled blood is what covers you from hell (NT). So if the whole Bible is summed up by the two, my writng couldnt be that long for you to read.

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Una never tire for this thread?

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@ nopuqeater

Thanks for your concern as regards my fate in the afterlife. I am happy and content with the salvation of God through Jesus Christ. I pray that God shows you how concerned he is about your fate in the afterlife too and leads you to salvation. God bless you. Amen!

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Guy you really are 2 plates of nepuq before coming to your computer. What a long writing with no point in particular. Haba!

Holla moi!

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Yeah. By means of our Adam sin spread to all mankind. And that why we die and are imperfect. Imperfection is why there are stillborn, diseases, etc.

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@Seyibrown: « #115 on: July 30, 2010, 11:04 AM »

@Precap2: « #124 on: Yesterday at 09:55:55 PM »

@aletheia (m): « #126 on: Today at 07:21:45 PM »

Quote from: precap2 on Today at 05:47:10 PM

How come? After all the stress? No hope then? Terrifying to say the least.

Jesus can help a lot of dudes if they can just come off their mental traps.

Holla!

Quote from: Image123 on Yesterday at 04:25:26 PM

^That's expensive and unreliable then. Maybe that's why some try to take a shortcut by blowing up themselves, quite inefficient imo.Are you kidding?

No kidding. It's recorded in their Qur'an and Hadiths. That is the terror that lurks in the hearts of people like nopuqeater and vedaxcool: that perhaps at the end of the day, they will not escape Hell despite their best efforts. They are without hope of salvation while rejecting the Only One who can save them from Hell - Jesus.

Quote from: Sura 19.71, 72

19.71 There is not one of you but shall approach i[/b]t. That is a fixed ordinance of thy Lord. 19.72 [b]Then We shall rescue those who kept from evil, and leave the evil-doers crouching there.

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Someone pays the debt you owed, commands you not to get into any more debt telling you what the consequences will be for going into debt again; you think going on a spending spree on your credit card knowing can't pay back is the best thing to do? It is not the best thing to do but you still have the freewill to choose to remain a free man or a debtor.

And what do you mean by 'neutralize that sin'? That is the funniest thing I have ever read!

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How come? After all the stress? No hope then? Terrifying to say the least.

Jesus can help a lot of dudes if they can just come off their mental traps.

Holla!

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There is only one name under heaven by which a man's sins can be forgiven him and that name is Jesus. sin cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven So unless your a christian or become one real soon I will not be seeing you there in spit of all the false teachings that are taught. How can anyone claim to believe in Christ yet call his followers infidels, how can anyone justify murderer of innocent women and children in order to push their religions territorial power? that contains forms of jealousy, hatred, vengeance, strife, theft, and idolatry! none being the fruits of the spirit.

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^That's expensive and unreliable then. Maybe that's why some try to take a shortcut by blowing up themselves, quite inefficient imo.

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^^^

profession of faith, going on hajj, fasting during ramadan, giving alms, praying five times a day but even with all these their quran says all muslims will go to hell, including their prophet.

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Previous post continued. . . .

Wickedness is multiplied; Crimes are being committed against law-abiding people and their is no justice; Many are being oppressed and most times the justice system of this world does not give them justice.

Who gives justice to a 4 year old who is repeatedly being despoiled by an adult who should know better?  Who heals the hurt of victims of despoils and murders(and their families) whose perpetrators are let back into society when they are still a danger? Who gives justice people who are being abducted, dismembered and sold for body parts? Who gives justice to the people whose government daily robs them of their rights? Who gives true healing to the broken-hearted? It is only God! He sent Jesus to make it easier for us to access the love, protection, peace and provision that is available from him.

Again, I cannot see myself living in this world without the peace and love of God. I have tasted the Lord and seen that he is good!

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Everything was good when Adam and Eve were created. Adam was not originally created to 'eat from the sweat of his brow', and Eve was not originally created to have 'multiplied pain in childbirth'. The curses were only added to them after they were created and they became nature to humans(Adam and eve's offspring).

Nobody is born a sinner (Matthew 18 v 1-6)

1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 And He called a child to Himself and set him before them,

3 and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

4 “Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 “And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me;

6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea).

Our upbringing(family) and society shape us (Proverbs 22 v 6 : Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it).

Jesus came to save us because of the failure of our ancestors and society to us and their inability to redeem us (Isaiah 59 v 16 : And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him).

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We are all born INTO sin, not WITH SIN.

The consequences of the sins of our forefathers are evident in the world today and we are all in one way or the other affected by it. That is how we are paying for the sins of our forefathers. They refused to obey God, and many still do, choosing to go their own way and we have had generations of adulterers, murderers, rapists, robbers etc. Generations to come (until our Lord comes) will be affected by the same, they will probably still have to clutch their purses and bags tight when in Oshodi; keep their children away from the prying eyes of the lecherous next door neighbour - or even move; have burglary proof on homes to keep (or try to keep) robbers out ; fear to walk alone in the dark alleys in London in case a prematurely released convict or 'happy slapping' devotee attacks them etc; the perpetrators and victims of these crimes all having been born INTO a SINful society.

Yes, each man pays for his sin, receiving the wages of sin here on earth and in the hereafter; but we all - saved and unsaved - bear the consequences of letting sin remain in our societies.

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More on the original sin

Original sin, sometimes called ancestral sin,[1] is, according to a doctrine proposed in Christian theology, humanity's state of sin resulting from the Fall of Man.[2] This condition has been characterized in many ways, ranging from something as insignificant as a slight deficiency, or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt, referred to as a "sin nature," to something as drastic as total depravity or automatic guilt by all humans through collective guilt.[3]

Those who uphold this doctrine look to the teaching of Paul the Apostle in Romans 5:12-21 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 for its scriptural base,[2] and see it as perhaps implied in Old Testament passages such as Psalm 51:5 and Psalm 58:3.

Some Christians do not accept the doctrine indicated by the terms "original sin" or "ancestral sin", which are not found in the Bible.[4] The doctrine is not found in other religions, such as Judaism,[5] Hinduism[6] and Islam.[7]

In the theology of the Catholic Church, original sin is regarded as the general condition of sinfulness, that is (the absence of holiness and perfect charity) into which humans are born, distinct from the actual sins that a person commits. This teaching explicitly states that Adam's original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants.[8] In other words, human beings do not bear any "original guilt" from Adam and Eve's particular sin. The prevailing view, also held in Eastern Orthodoxy, is that human beings bear no guilt for the sin of Adam and Eve.

Although Orthodoxy prefers using the term "ancestral sin",[9][10] which indicates that "original sin is hereditary. It did not remain only Adam and Eve's. As life passes from them to all of their descendants, so does original sin "[11] In this quotation, "original sin" is used not of the personal sin of Adam, which is his alone and is not transmitted, but in reference to the "distortion of the nature of man", which is inherited.

An important exposition of the belief of Eastern Christians identifies original sin as physical and spiritual death, the spiritual death being the loss of "the grace of God, which quickened (the soul) with the higher and spiritual life".[12] Others see original sin also as the cause of actual sins: "a bad tree bears bad fruit" (Matthew 7:17, NIV), although, in this view, original and actual sin may be difficult to distinguish.[13]

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First of all, your Muhammad was a terror tool in the hands of Roman Catholics. If you don't know this, you've been served worn infested dinner. He copied many things from catholicism but later had to drop some of them to sound different. If you know the full history of how and where he shouted "allahu akbar", you'd be coming close to the truth.

Now I am certain you need to see a head doctor you radical protestant that suffers from mythomania. Your lies has become truth to you, what a pity.

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