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Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks?

A pastor is a man that forsook everything to answer the call of God, Some resigned from great positions turned their back on offers and opportunities so as to answer Gods calling. They changed men lives for the better , heal the sick cast out devils and brought the best out of people by the teaching of Gods word , He labours in prayers and intercession for the members and others.

Several attacks have come against them in the execution of their priestly ministry. especially in the area of finances.

Tithes Offerings, Prophetic Seeds etc.

firstly the church money does not belong to the pastor, He has his salary or allowance and also he receive other gift of appreciation from those who have been blessed by him.

Galatians 6:6-7

    Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. [7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

1 Tim. 5:17-18

    Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. [18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

When a pastor ask people to give , Is it not for their own prosperity? We receive by giving as Jesus taught us

Luke 6:38     Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. That's why a pastor is anointed.His anointing cause people to be blessed by giving through him or to him.

Numbers 18:8     And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.

[color=#990000[b]]Philip. 4:15-19 [/b]

    Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. [16] For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. [17] [color=#000099]Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.[/color] [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. [19] But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. [/color]

2 Cor. 6:10

   , "as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Jesus  received money from people.How was he able to take care of12 men and their family, chatter boats etc

Luke 8:2-3

    And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, [3] And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Our  pastors can't do the work of God  well without the funds. Jesus was criticised also for receiving money from people.

[b]John 7:12([/b]Living Bible)

There was alot of discussion about, Some said "he's a wonderful man" while others said, No, he's duping the public

I am not aware any pastor will force anybody to give.They only teach us the word of God. we have the choice to obey or not.

SO IS IT REALLY RIGHT TO CALL THE MEN OF GOD THIEVES?

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167 answers

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-387474.0.html

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Since this seems to be more about Agbaje than the TITLE of the thread itself, thread is hereby locked.

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This pastor agbaje don fuckkl up big time. . . .now you see why pastor chris doesn't talk to the media coz he'll be exposed like this.

Pastor jogbaje hope you've learnt your lesson.

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For once they cant stand the truth,  When Jesus came the scribes were angry, when stephen told them the truth they stone him cos they cant resist of the wisdom he spoke. If anybody should run from nairaland it should be pple that teach false doctrine,have been so blessed reading your thread, if ur a pastor already welldone, if ur not pls go and be one cos ur a blessing. Thank you for coming to nairaland, lets breath some fresh air.

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Just look at the way you've been dodging straight forward questions and shamelessly twisting the "scriptures" to suit your propaganda of deceit.Of course, to fraudsters like you, anyone who doesn't "co-operate" or fall in line with your scams is "unintelligent" or "not born again".So who is the agbero? You thief!

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You are the only dumb cluck on this thread WHICH YOU STARTED!

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If you guys don't have any meaningful discusion  I will sugest you get off this thread. We need inteligent participants here , not this agbero style.

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My friend, i can cause a world war, ethnic cleansing on massive proportions, your entire village will be wiped out, i will have dominion over all religious sects, add my profile in the bible and your future generation would be reading about me in the bible and quoting scriptures about me IN CHURCH! ! !

Think about that for a minute before you start quoting scripture as if it's a book that fell from heaven.Was it not written by humans?Doesn't it go through publishing?Be careful man! The same westerners who brought Christianity also brought slave trade/arms trade.Think about that for a minute.

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Since anointing is cheap and meaningless, i can authoritatively tell you that i have been ANOINTED to call you a thief! Yes. . .You be thief of the lowest order.In between, how is business in Yenegao? How are the offerings and tithes coming along?I hope economic meltdown/recession hasn't affected the donations. If i invest N10 million in your business, how much % will i get in quarterly basis? Maybe i need to send you an email for more "private discussions".

Your type should be taken out to the open and shot at point blank range.Personally, i would be more than glad to gut you slowly while you are still alive with a swiss blade.

Christ embassy Poo bags! ! !

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so you are not in a Fraud gang together? Well since I can't prove anything it is better just to leave it. Where is the Joe Agbaje guy sef? Maybe he is still counting yesterday's offerings.

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I know Joagbaje on nairaland. I Like his exposition. Has the Thread turned to personal issues or you guys ran out of scriptures?.

Do you know KunleOshob personaly, Ogajim and whats that name again o? please how many people in your team do you know personaly.

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Okay sorry o. But you can't deny that you know Joe Agbaje personally.

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@pastor AIO

stop talking trash, If i wanted to start a thread i would.while would I want to start a thread on a topic that I already contributed to before. I was trying to post another comment when my page timed out and It hadnt happened beffore. i retyped and was surprised it came out as new thread.

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Well the facts about the topic are that it is right to call a crook a crook whether or not that crook has pretensions of being a pastor or not.  For example Pastor Joe Agbaje, whose name had already exposed him even before we knew he was a pastor, who considered the options of being an imam or being a pastor and decided that pastor was more lucrative, who lies and deceive all for filthy lucre.  To him I say you are a crook.  A big big crooked crook.  

And as for you his minions, you are petty crooks who might one day grow into big crooks too.

Why should the identity issue bother you so much, are you the one who is being accused?  You are bothered because it is your lord and your god that is being accused.  Poor soul!

And yes I do give and you can wonder the amount all you want but I can't tell you.  Why?  Because I don't count.  I give according to how the spirit moves me to, according to the need to which my giving is addressing.  Who did I give to?  Those in need, sometimes family, sometimes friends, sometimes absolute strangers who I may never see again.  However I don't know how all this is relevant to the topic, after all you are the one that said this shouldn't be personal but topical.  

I am not posting to change you.  I don't change people.  The Holy Spirit changes people.  

Are you aware of the scripture that says:  what you do to the least of these . . . .

Wait, let me even quote the full thing properly sef:

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I notice that you do not even begin to remotely address the topic. Is the heat getting too much for you? Then get out of the kitchen. Is it proper to label "pastors" as crooks? Certainly, any pastor that tells me to pay "tithes" and "firstfruits" and "sow a seed" is a crook.

1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.

Any pastor that shows himself to be a crook is labeled a crook. QED

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@pastor aio

present your facts about the topic and forget this identity issue its just distractung you from the main issue

have you ever given before and if you have i wonder the amount?

who did you give to?

if its god then definitely you would have your harvest but am sure for you giving is definitely not your lifestyle

sorry, as for me i will increase my giving so much whether the likes of you are happy about it or not.

your funny posts cannot change me

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It's harder to identify CROOKS that don't carry loaded automatic weapons, abi I lie?

Got to go find the 419 thread Kunle will open to dish more on this,

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@ lastpage

do you have a pastor, or you have a church in your house,

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@ harakiri

name one who is

are you saying that apostle paul who received generously from the philipians and also the lord jesus christ who took peters boat are all crooks?

pls study gal 6:6 and 1 cor 6:10

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Plus, the people who told him about Nairaland are probably reading this thread too which is extra egg in his face.

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when a man is blind he does not know he is blind, any one who says pastors are crooks is blinded by then God of this world, read Eph 2:2-10.you are walking according to the world system(evils that that runs like a stream through the world, you are like you father the devil, the aciuser of the brethren pastors are from above ye are from benith. am not suprised because you are a fufilment of the scriptures.

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what has this topic got to do with a personality, or nobody want to talk sense here again. Are pastors crooks bc they teach on giving? period. who is kunleshobo, is he a native doctor, elder, pioneer, pope. This divertion do not make sense to me. I dont seek to know anybody on nairaland but is a forum abi is  for gangstars. This is against the rules in nairaland i have reported to moderator.

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@pastor joe agbaje

what was your purpose in starting this topic? Since your a pastor yourself arn't u a crook like the rest of them?

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If it acts like a crook, talks like a crook, chops money like a crook,

Don't be deceived.

It is REALLY a crook and completely proper to say it is!

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Nigeria is d most religious country in d world, and at the same time the most corrupt! I've bin trying to reconcile d above stated fact but all to no avail. This fact can hold water only when our "religiousness" is not genuine! Let d truth be told from d roof tops, 95% of the so called pastors are not genuine. I believe the primary aim of the church, is to win souls 4 God. Unfortunately, churches 2day most of which are pentecostal have greatly derailed 4rm the initial objective. Only what they know is prosperity and giving, and by giving i mean giving to d church! Most pastors employ the most dreaded weapon "FEAR" in defrauding their members, it works like a "trojan horse" The secret is this, when u make a man afraid, u can virtually get anything 4rm him. Thats why they wld keep tellin u dat ur grandmother did this and dat and dat u need deliverance, i guess u know what that entails?

Finally, why do u see them only in cities? U can never find any pentecostal church in remote villages like u find catholics, anglicans, methodist etc The answer is very obvious! the city is where u find the rich and as well the money!

Joagbaje what wld it cost u to confirm to us if u are a pastor wit christ embassy? Or are u ashamed of ur profession?

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Proverbs 26:5

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

BUT YOU DONT HAVE TO LIVE LIKE A CROOK. THERE IS A HIGHER LIFE IN CHRIST FOR YOU

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If KunleOshob had his way he do street fight with me because I have distablised the anti church and antichrist campaign. We dont need sentiment. Lets look at the bible .Present your fact based on sciptures. either you are pope ,police or taxi driver. Lets look at facts

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There are N.G.O.s in the country that have dine great jobs and are sacrificial. there other NGOs thatare not sincere, sacrificial but rather a profit making idea.  But it will be wrong to call all NGOs money rackets because of some. and that people should never give to an NGO .

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I have received a number of reports from Joe Agbaje regarding this thread.

I cannot claim to fully understand what is going on here as I haven't gone through the details.

All I will say is this - any focus on the person of Joe Agbaje should be reserved for another thread.

In that regard, I am inclined to delete the references to his alleged 'exposure' - can the posters please edit their posts and open a separate thread for that purpose?

Thanks.

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Funny how religion has been given residence in a place desperately seeking hope when sinking. Not even a quarter of the united kingdom inhabitants go to church. Reasons being they dont have any problems. They can afford 3 square meals and they all have jobs. But refocus your sights to Africa where poverty, unemployment, no social amenities and criminals have gone far beyond measurable limits . Hope is the only thing keeping everybody from commiting suicide and religion is now the opium of the masses. Pastors have now seen a fertile land to rob individuals off their last penny. Religion is a personal experience with u and God and not between you, God and your pastor. When will u blind people wake up? My girlfriend was so convinced in her RCCG until i took her to my methodist church here in england. She was really surprised how things were done. Not once did they preach about prosperity but instead love was the message.

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any pastor that steal from the church treasury is a crook.

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@tbaba you remind me of the religious man Jesus told to sell his property and follow him, check your response and that man's response. Lovers of money cant hear about giving, funny. what is wrong wit selling your property, didnt the apostles tell people to sell their properties. why was banarbas called the son of consolation?

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The thread has a focus.whenever KunleOshob and his disciples get stuck, they get into irrelivances, and abuses. which doesnt desrve a response .

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I'm a christian but i will not deny the fact that some crooks are called pastors. Yeah that's the way it is, crooks being called pastors. I'm not against giving but I think phrasing and rephrasing the scriptures to favour the "pastor's" pockets is plain fraud. For goodness sakes,  i've been to some churches and the offerings are so much that one begins to wonder just how much he has to bring to church to satisfy the pastor. First there's tithe, then weekly offering, seed of faith, church support, birthday, wedding and outing services thanksgivings, other donations and fund raisings all on the same day, believe me. There are churches that the service starts by 9:30. By 11:30 the service proper is over but the whole thing ends by 2:30. What happens between 11:30 and 2:30? Offerings, thanksgivings and fund raisings. I believe in giving tithe and weekly offerings but when you're forced into making some donations by the pastor's words then it's plain fraud. Pastor says : "if you want to become a millionaire, sow a seed of 50,000" and people troop out not because they are willingly giving to God, but they're expecting a largesse in return. Giving to God is not by force. God wants people that will give to him with their whole hearts, willingly without reservations not people that give grudginly "because pastor said so". God blesses cheerful givers abundantly not forced givers. Forced givers mainly get their money in return somehow. My pastor is not God to me. I can pray to God to bless me and he does bless me. Not some pastor commercializing the blessings of God. My two cents.

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nuella2 u are a big . After the holy spirit has moved u to give your pastor all your cars to drive and your wife to sleep with i hope ur lottery will be big. mumu oshi

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am not angry, i just detest deceit. and yes i give beggars more than 50naira believe me. frauds

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True and genuine men of God in the bible were not only warned against the love of money, not liking money was one of the criteria for becoming a leader in the church as we can see in the scriptures below:

1 Timothy 3:2-3:

2Now a bishop (superintendent, overseer) must give no grounds for accusation but must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, circumspect and temperate and self-controlled; [he must be] sensible and well behaved and dignified and lead an orderly (disciplined) life; [he must be] hospitable [showing love for and being a friend to the believers, especially strangers or foreigners, and be] a capable and qualified teacher,

   3Not given to wine, not combative but gentle and considerate, not quarrelsome but forbearing and peaceable, and not a lover of money [insatiable for wealth and ready to obtain it by questionable means].

1 Timothy 6:10-11:

10For the love of money is a root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have been led astray and have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves through with many acute [mental] pangs.

   11But as for you, O man of God, flee from all these things; aim at and pursue righteousness (right standing with God and true goodness), godliness (which is the loving fear of God and being Christlike), faith, love, steadfastness (patience), and gentleness of heart.

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why are you so angry, yes o, wait for your reward in heaven but pls increase the beggers money to 50 naira, stop 10 naira so your reward go big small, just an advice.

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the fool cant even defend himself.

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1. You sir, are a fraud, a charlatan and a false teacher! Do you even read the bible that you quoted below:

2. You are a greedy thief, as evidenced by your own words. A wolf masquerading as sheep but despite all your best efforts your lupine nature still shows forth.

Joh 10:11-13  I am the good shepherd. [b]The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. [/b]

But this perfectly describes your ilk:

2 Pe 2:15, 18-19  Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing,

For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error.

They promise them freeom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.

Php 3:19  Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.

Here then is a warning for you:

You have been warned.

1Tim 6:3-11  If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.  But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.

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nuella or whatever ur name is. where did u see me preaching. I am only quoting the same Bible that you people are quoting. Any man of God who preaches propsperity is a bloody . Look in the Bible. God's people were not the richest people on the land of the earth. They have endured toture from the isrealites and the romans. Even Jesus was born of a carpenter in a manger when people were expecting a man of royal blood. Reasons why he was unaccepted as the messiah. No pastor will see d thread of my pocket. Bloody thieves. What is a man of God doing with jets, rolex watches, luxury cars. Nigerian pastors have been inviting politicians to their church and been praying for Nigeria for decades. Look at the state of the country. Half of the poor members cant afford to go their private universities. IDIOTS keep decieving urselves. I will always give to the poor and await my rewards in heaven Fools

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Poster Joagbaje please deny or[i] confirm[/i] that you are one and the same person as Pastor Joe Agbaje of the Christ Embassy Church in Yenagoa

Failure to do this by your NEXT post will certainly dismiss or confirm to a large extent the assertion that pastors are crooks

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@tbaba,No man of God is a crook. Is the love of money that stop pple from giving. Greedy pple cannot release money but give excuses for thier stinginess. Was Abraham poor? Was Solomom poor? Are you poor, your on nairaland? do you know how many poor pple need lunch wit this money your using on nairaland?Can you stand poverty, stop preaching what you cannot stand. Prosperity is not acquisition of wealth but having enough to give becoming a blessing to your world.

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Below was posted by kunleoshob

You replied:

Now you say:

Questions:

1. When James wrote James 1:27, was he a Christian or not?

2. If James was a Christian when he wrote James 1:27, then why do you and your "church" not follow what he said and why does your church's doctrine differ from James'?

Unless, as I said before, perhaps you are not following Christianity but a different and a false "gospel" instead?

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where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in

and steal, but lay up for yourself treasures in heaven" Matt.

6:19

No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate

the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one

and despise the other. You cannot serve God and

mammon.(Mammon meaning wealth or riches)" Matt. 6:24

Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to

enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier

for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a

rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matt. 19:23-24

Sell your possessions, and give alms." Luke 12:33

As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts

into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in

two very small copper coins. 'I tell you the truth," he said,

"this poor widow has put in more than all the others. All

these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she

out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.'"  Luke

21:1-4

Also there is a quote condemning the rich in the Letter

of James-

 "Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries

that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your

garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have

rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will

eat your flesh like fire." Jan 5:1-3

U are a very irritating crook. What else should i quote from the Bible when you have done a good job twisting it. I would choose not to come down to your fanatic level and instead argue with u like an intellectual. ARE THE RICHEST PEOPLE ON EARTH CHRISTIANS. KEEP DECEIVING YOUR FELLOWMEN.

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No it's not right to label a pastor as a crook. a pastor that teaches giving is only teaching his brethren to prosper. a pastor that teaches his congregation how to give is only doing what he is supposed to do afterall, even  pastors give enormously in different areas

also it is not unscriptural for people to give money in churches neither is it wrong for pastors to preach it

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And anybody can call anybody a pastor.

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A crook is not a man of God.

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Prove your point scripturally. Anbody can call anybody thieves. Is your argument based on the word of God or just sentiments.

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u liars. the richest man in the world is not even a christian. So how was he prosperous without tithes and offerings. Nigerian pastors are all thieves.

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