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Is Magic Real ?

As a child ,i used to be facinated with watching magic shows. I was thrilled by the likes of proffessor Pella in nigeria and other foreign performers. But later in life i began to question magic. Because I observed that many of these magics were tricks. Few former magician I talked with showed me some of the tricks behind the show. I even subscribed to a magic website in my research and I also observe that there is nothing spiritual about these shows they are just tricks. But I heard people say things like " you have to read 7 books of moses and sleep in graveyards for seven days to have magical powers. I am not interested in magic to perform it. Im only doing a personal research into the myth about it. so far I believe all magics are tricks for shows and has no spiritual part. But if you have a knowledge of it that says otherwise. I will like to know.

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The only places where such powers are demonstrated are in pages of books. The only people who demonstrates such powers are characters invented by the authors of such books.

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@Joeagbaje,

Atmosphere for faith.LOL @NBC verification.

We are talking of a laboratory-like verification to eliminate false positives and here you are talking about NBC.

Did you really understand that what sirjohn asked for was to eliminate false positives?

once again LOL.

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you're not gonna shove cellphone numbers down my throat, if u had provided the X-Rays as you said, that would have shut me up for good.

Joagbaje, for two years now I've been working on verifying faith healing claims so be sure that I know what I'm doing. what you're trying to do is exactly what Benny Hinn does, you ask him to provide proof for a blind person he claims was healed and the next thing he does is tell you about a lady cured of osteo athritis. I'm not calling the numbers cos its foul play!

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Why dont you try the lines first, if youre honestly seeking truth. I had already explained the boy case why the test result wasnt available. these other people have medical results ask them on phone. IF THEY NEED TO , THEY CAN MAIL IT TO YOU

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Joagbaje this is not what I requested for, you said a little boy was healed of a hole in the heart and that you can provide X-Rays to comfirm this; I said I'm game and I even offered to give half a million if the X-Rays show the before and after.

Now you're brandishing phone numbers like Kenyan28.

try harder!

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@ VALIDATOR

You dont understand the genesis of the matter, but sirjohn does. I wasnt talking about miracles through pastor chris but through his children and his children children.

Pastor chris's miracles are verifiable. and they wont be on air if they have not been verified. We have a new programme "Atmsphere of  faith" which NBC had verified the testimonies. Remember thsame NBC banned miracles on Nigerian TV stations. For them to allow healing testimonies to be aired in Atmosphere of Faith. It was verified and proven authentic. If not NBC wont waste time to slam their hammer.

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Sir John.

He said he has medical report. I will try get a copy and post but this is their numbers .

Mother :Mrs Ebiye Ogionwo 07031066994

Son Bro Emmanuel Ogionwo 07066982847.

The son got healed of leg ulcer of two years which had defied medical treatment. Call the mother call the son . See the doctor if need be. Jesus heals every day. I still have another HIV case with medical report. I will try contact this lady.

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X-ray was not done initially I enquired how they got to know about the hole, They said that was what the doctor said. So I didnt bother to do an xtray again since there was none done before. The child is healed , walking and running arround. I can give you the woman's number . You can hear her testimony. I didnt bother raising the issue with you because the proof i relied on wasnt there. We record healings and miracles weekly in many of our churches.

There is another one today of of leg ulcer of two years. I will confirm the medical record if there is any. I will send the guy's number and tommorow you can interview him.

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Oh good Joagbaje, I'll be waiting patiently for that; remember I still have the cheque for half a million naira to give to anyone who comes back healed of any of these:

Total blindness

Total deafness/dumbness

Complete paralysis

down's syndrome

To mention but a few; at least we wont have to enter into any unecessary long debate as to the genuiness of their healings. And lest I forget Joagbaje you still owe me one story, you were gonna send me X-Rays of a little boy, remember? I'm still waiting or dont you want any of your members to be $3,000 richer?

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your attempts to ridicle me have not been very successful. I have freedom to research on anything. I have even research about juju worshippers . Shakers cult, Islam and other world religion. My study is on the magic shows of this post modern society.

"Him"who? . If you're talking about pastor chris. The world celebrates him. He is a blessing to this generation and the body of christ . The best bible teacher Ive seen. Try get some tapes . His messages will wash you up. And all these junks and maggots you vommit sometimes will be purged from you. You'll be a clean vessel.

I love you jare.

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Jesus Christ is thesame yesterday , today and forever. Jesus is still healing. You are talking about Oyakhilome. If you see the miracles and healing God is performing through his children, you will leave oyakhilome alone. The healing school is on presently. Some of us have individuals we sent there , I will furnish the story soon

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Joagbaje, I've once told you that I sometimes admire your approach compared to some other Oyaks adherants on this forum.

I'm amazed you came up with this thread plus you're trying to convince us about the trickery in magic. well, some of us knew this a long time ago. what I find startling though is how you find it difficult to believe that Oyaks healing school employs the same trickery in magic.

How about something more interesting to research on, try doing a research on 'faith healing' you'd be amazed what you find out.

Cheers!

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It seems some of the discussion were at cross purposes. In broad terms, in light of preceding discussion, we can categorise "magic" into two types.

A. Magic as in television/entertainment magic: in general this is based on tricks and illusions and not "dark" powers

B. "Magic" as in relation to "supernatural powers" or the "occult" or the "paranormal"; the Bible passage quoted suggests that this, at the least, existed; instinctively, many believe that it still exists and lore in many cultures suggest its existence. However, obvious examples in modern times are not readily come by and many laying claim to such powers are charlatans and opportunists.

To be fair to him, I believe that my friend pasiiitor Joagbaje really meant to confine himself to entertainment/television magic.

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You've studied the Bible "WELL" and you believe in it. But the Bible says "there is Magic" and even gives you an example and here you are on NL, (a supposed pastor) asking IS MAGIC REAL?

Then you say

the above in response to

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There is no spirituality or any metaphysical factor in performing magic. Just tricks.

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So tricks are more like it than the Bible, ko?

I think the problem is that you don't consider who you claim to be when you post and then show haughtiness and self-righteousness to try to recover which just worsens your position. Did you read the Bible verse I gave you about requirements for a Bishop? Go back and look at the part that talks of "the way the outside world looks at him"

Cos me I like you. But you seem not to like youself

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I have THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES

The Mysterious Words and Magic Seals to command Spirits to visibly appear in beautiful human forms are Names of God

We have Lesser Magic like The Experiment of Mockery and Deceits in THE ORIGINAL KEY TO THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES

The Greater Magical Arts in THE ORIGINAL KEY TO THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES are Experiments of Invisibility, Magic Garter, Magic Carpet, Solomons Treasures, Loose Oneself from Chains, Recover Stolen Goods etc

Though i Tried most of These Expirements but unsuccessful

What is the secret to a successful Magical Expirements?

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this response is more like it. Except for the fact that you don't believe miracles

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They are pdfs. Sure i will start sending them tudor, will be slow though. . .crappy internet link.

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I wouldnt mind having them pls. . . .my email dey my profile. Thanks

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Take magic for what it is. It is stage entertainment!!! It is fun to watch. I know a few magic tricks I used in bars. You can use it as a pickup line. The ladies really did palm reading. Now that really works.

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See also Post No 3 on this older thread

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Magic is not supposed to be real. What gave you that impression? But it's entertaining nevertheless.

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please can i have some of the site also.so i can verify myself

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There is no spirituality or any metaphysical factor in performing magic.Just tricks.

You are made to reason in one convenient way while the magician acts in another way.I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT BECAUSE I KNOW A FEW TRICKS TOO.

Another thing to consider is that a rural African dweller not used to watching TV may actually think that the actors disappear when actors recite incantations and disappear from the screen.

Nobody has ever been able to at will demonstrate magic/metaphysical ability/miracle/etc in a laboratory kind of condition.

1 Position cameras to cover the magic performance from all angles with the magician at the center

2 Record the magic as he performs it.Do not edit the videos in any way.

3 Slow the videos down to less than 6.25%

4 Watch all the slowed videos simultaneously.

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The book filled up with so many contradicting words is not any solution or answer to genuine things . well , if you said it is enough for you meaning you don't want to learn something useful . The Bible is a book of confusion and you know it and thats why even you christian dogma's find it difficult to understand it .

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Its not real. Just skills by very good and highly trained people. Get some booksby derren brown, richard wiseman and co. If anyone is interested in some of these books,i can mail them to you free, just indicate your interest. Interesting texts,i add.

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If you criticize Pastor Chris' "Take It", then I wonder what you will say about those that raised dead humans.

Please always test run your synapses before advertising your ignorance!

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Obviously, you have no manners! I guess the heretic opaks Oyaks did not teach you better.

Worse, you display ignorance if you think opaks Oyaks' "take it" has anything to do with God!

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If you observed carefully , they usually have a big table infront. Well that depemds on the trick. Someb tricks dont require table. The settings has to do with the kinds of tricks to perform. But those big tables have compartment inside where you can bring up things and drop things.

Well my intention to have proof if there is any spiritual part of magic. So i will believe in it to come with proof. Before I come to my own conclussion if there is some demonic / spiritual involvement.

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What about the issue of making things disappear.

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Magic is as real as opaks Oyakhilome's "take it"/"falling under 'anointing'"; they come from the same base.

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I have seen a magician make things disappear and another cut a woman into two!. I think it is spiritual but demonic.

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