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Is Rccg And Pastor Adeboye Obliged To Return Akingbola Looted Offering?

Since we all know that Akingbola and Ibru were looting the public silly through their banks and donating part of it to the church, I personally think the church should refund this money back to the govt.

Any key donations the duo made should be returned to the public

Since the 2 were key donors for the jet, and other key financial dealings of the church.

This brings me to the story of a man who was alleged to have sold a generator at Sheraton Hotels and gave 10% to Christ Embassy, what became of the money?

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If d so called "man of God" cannot decern a stolen money frm d thieves,devil,& claim it for God without God kicking agst such lies & blaspemy but kept silence then something is morally wrong with d whiteman's religion.

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precap 2 is the most silly poster on NL,you mean to tell me that only catholics and muslims oppose Pastor Chris?most of the pastor chris attackers on this website are not catholics nor muslims,they even come from your fellow penterascal movement.Do you mean to tell me that the PFN (which blacklisted him) and chris okotie are also catholics and muslims abi

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Kunleoshob

Luke 7:37 (kjv)

37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that[ Jesus] sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

Why did jesus not return the perfume which she bought with questionable money and which was abomination according to the law?

Luke 7:37

37 a woman of the streets-- a love-peddler-- heard he was there and brought an exquisite flask filled with expensive perfume

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President obama returned campaign donations made by an associate after allegations of wrong doings were made public. He wasnt running around and squirming to hold on to stolen funds like you greedy folks.

Geez obama must be from planet jupiter.

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^^^

Stop lying the bible never described Mary magdalene as a LovePeddler so stop tring to mis-lead people here in your desperation to defend your love for filthy lucre.

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Pastor AIO,

Deuteronomy 23:18

18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a LovePeddler, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these[ are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.

I agree with you. But A pastor has no way of determining the source of an offering or donation. Jesus did not ask where Mary Madgalene God the money for the perfume she poured on him. Even though tradition says she was a LovePeddler

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It is not the responsibility of the church to return such money. If such a thing is allowed , Satan will use it as attack against churches. He will just get his guys to donate into a church project with the intention of getting the church indebted. After the money might have been used for tv broadcast or building project, the church may go bankrupt because it is satanic set up. What happens to criminal that gives money to orphanage. Will the orphan pay back. What happens to the money the criminal spent in beer parlour, taxi, airplane, or hotel who pays back? Taxi driver?. No of course! Thesame way, the church can not be made to pay back such money. In the first place the church did not know the source , and the church has no way of finding out the source of such money. So abusing pastors and G.Os is not the issue. If the church has to pay back, then several people will pay back too; from taxi driver to food seller.

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Baslome, what do call the jet.

Whom do U think God is,

U say God's jet. What does God needs man jet to do, is it to travel or what.

Why do you attach that wonderful name of God to men's atrocities.

How many jet did Jesus has when he came to earth. He performd miracles that people saw and witnessed.

They use offering to build a university that ordinary member of their church/ payer of tithe can not send their children to.

Why then do you blame politicians; they are far better than so call man of God.

Let us think of God's Kingdom not this wicked world where we are going to spend 70/80 years.

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Maybe it's grammar that is at stake here. If you don't know you wrote this, then move up and read again. If you know you wrote it, then words are the only trouble in understanding here. What were you seeking in the statement above?

Holla moi!

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Is that what the bible teaches Christians (followers of Christ) vis-a-vis teh issue of righteousness?

BTW, where was I asking for "proof"

why would you try to twist my post and put in meanings that are not stated nor implied?

What is your interest/gain?

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What you're asking for is to simply reinforce your personal bias. No human can prove any verbal demand conclusively. For anything that has to do with another human you're only left with conjectures:

1. Obama is a good president (Dems), Obama is a bad president (Repubs)

2. Angela Merckel is a good Chancellor (Chris Dem), no she knows nothing (Libs)

3. Pst Chris Oyakhilome is a man of God (CE members), No he's not (Catholic and muslims)

4 Jega will be a good INEC chairman (Conservatives), no he won't be (Lib and Prog)

The same reason that is used to prove one good, right, true are also used to prove them the other way around. Proof is nothing but alignment of words in the way that pleases your preconceptions and prejudices. So no one will prove nothing to you.

Holla moi!

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what is the reference from the Bible for this passage?

and would you mind stating who the righteous is here?

as well as the biblical basis of confirming righteousness on that person, organisation or institution?

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first and foremost, it is not right for an unbeliever to donate money (store treasures) where he won’t go to (heaven). however, if he insists, why rebuke? afterall, the righteous shall eat the fruit of the wicked and they shall inherit the land.

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I've just read it again and I find it quite to the point. Perhaps the words that I used were beyond your vocabulary. I was just being succinct, but I had already said what they mean in an earlier post, but using more 'simpler' words:

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I just quoted you above to let you read what you wrote. Read it as if someone else wrote it. Are you learning new words everyday or just the normal childish impulse to fill everywhere with words. Reexamine your language is all I advice, it won't be useful if I start out with your kind of words, it can only mess the entire purpose of the thread. A thread is started so that people can bring in differing opinions, if opinions were to be the same then discussion would be unnecessary.

As for explaining Scripture, if you find my explanation unsatisfactory, it's because you have a different view of it. I have learned over the years that point of view does not amount to total disagreement, it simply means you're in the north while I occupy the south. Enjoy your views as long as you're satisfied with them, but don't bully another to accept them whole or he'll be labeled pedantic, salacious, and ehr. . . mendacious.

Bless ya

Holla!

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I sorry but I didn't ever use the term illiterate. Maybe you've been talking to your brother noetic. He is the only literate person on nairaland and he likes to make sure that we all know it.

As far as I'm concerned I've stated facts and if those facts leave you feeling insulted then that is not my fault. The words I actually used were

1)Mendacity. That means lies. A mendacious person is a liar. Are you a liar?

You said that Usury is alright because the bible says:

Mendacity or Ignorance, you pick one.

2)Salacious. Someone driven by their baser passions. Greed, lust, covetousness etc. Pedantry is playing with details to twist meanings to suit yourself.

A salacious pedant would therefore twist meanings in order to justify his base passions. Such as justifying tithing. And lying that Matt 23 vs 23 justifies the tithing fraud that is going on today.

Sir, could you refute any of these charges that I've made above. Are your posts not mired in idiocy? I repeat that you've exhibited mendacity and a salacious pedantry. This is the observable fact. Whether or not it is insulting is no concern of mine.

Actually my points were exactly that your posts were full of mendacity and salacious pedantry. And I suspect that this is because of the state of your soul. Now you might find that a bit personal, but it is hard to separate what someone writes and the personality of the person.

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Pastor AIO <---- If people who have different views with you must be addressed with words such as illiterate, mendacious, idiocy, salacious and the likes, do I say you attract attention to your points or to the insults?

I think your points will stand out when you throw those insolent language to the gutters, or do they boost what you're saying? You're at liberty to form your diction though.

I was addressing someone who read my points and said I should see a doctor. He either differed with my views or was cracking one of those NL jokes and I said he's always a free thinker, then you jumped in reeling out insults again as if I was directing the talk to you. Must you always join issues you don't understand?

You can refrain from that kind of behavior while you still have time.

Bless ya all

Holla!

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I look forward to the day when reply would be made in NL without insult.

That day would be blessed.

Holla!

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What are you saying? That I didn't 'peel' her well enough? Or that 'Peeling' her is not very good? What exactly does peeling mean? I'm presuming you are referring to my saying that her english comprehension was poor. Did she strike you as having good comprehension? Please tell me, if you can show me that she exhibits good comprehension I'll take my words back.

I don't need to define anything, the Jews who have been practicing their mosaic law since the day it was given to them know how they practice their thing. Jews do not lend money to other Jews upon usury, but they do lend money to non-jews. Hence why the Jews became the bankers of Europe. Christians similarly could not lend money to other christians upon usury so it was very convenient that they had jews in their midst from whom they could borrow money to finance their projects. (Remember Shylock from Shakepeare's The Merchant of Venice.)

So that answers the who is your brother question, I guess. Although Jesus would take it even further as he taught in the parable of the Good samaritan. Jesus taught that we are all brothers (neighbours) regardless of blood ties or religious ties.

I know that you are trying to use pedantry to wriggle out of what the bible teaches. What is my definition of Poor? Why don't you tell me your definition of poor? Because I know that your religion is just a matter of defining things out of shape until you can do whatever you want to do and still feel justified. When your 'lord who teaches you to profit' does so by telling you to practice usury then I'm sorry but that sounds like a very different 'lord' from the lord that the Jews worshipped.

What's wrong with being a free-thinker? Are you an enslaved thinker? Enslaved to idiocy, mendacity, and salacious pedantry.

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You've always been a free thinker, haven't you?

Holla!

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@precaps i think u should see a doctor

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You did your best to explain and tried not to offend, but I personally have never been afraid of offending anyone for any reason. Let everyone be offended but let the truth be told.

Akingbola singly owned ICB for about 15 years. He has his personal money. He's still the major shareholder of ICB. He gave to the church out of his personal money. He has always been very wealthy. Why must it be said that the gift he made to church was from loot (if there was ever any looting in the first place). Those calling for returning whatever monies are Muslims who're here to mud-sling. Let them vacate the biggest mosque in Niger state because IBB built it with OBVIOUSLY stolen money. Let them vacate the ASO VILLA mosque because the proceed was obviously stolen. Let them ask PDP to refund all the billions Dangote and the likes gave them because we know the sources of such monies.

Akingbola has never even been proven to have taken any kobo and someone wants him hanged. If he runs away, our justice system is very clear on it. Trial will continue and if case is proven against him, then they'll either wait for his return or get assistance from Interpol. Why are we playing politics with everything? It is evident that those who want to take over ICB are succeeding, why won't they also go and take over Lion Bank and All States? Because those ones failed and they're not interested in failed business. If you don't know, then know it now that Akingbola as at today still control highest shares in ICB, have they taken it from him? Not yet.

Let a spade be called a spade. Like I said before I don't belong to RCCG and Heaven knows I don't have any plan of joining them tomorrow, but can someone stand up and say the truth?

Let them convict him in absentia, it's 100% allowed in our laws and if anyone need examples I can cite them. What they want is to take the man to dungeon, rubbish him there and take all the useless glory for dishonoring an honest man.

Holla! (But not from madmen)

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The steps to take are simple - I will return the gifts I received from him back to him, once I am satisfied that they came from corrupt proceeds. If I am not convinced and he hasn't been convicted by a court on the matter, I will not engage in any returns.

A good Christian will be careful not to pass judgment without evidence. If a Christian truly believes his friend is innocent, he can hold on to the gifts without doing anything wrong. Dancing to the tune of 'people' or what the 'majority' believes should NEVER be the driving force behind a Christian's actions.

Again, your analogies are off the mark. Akingbola's giving (whatever amounts they involved) were not 'gifts' to a friend, they were his personal contributions, likely made anonymously, to the running of an organisation or as a gift to God. As far as I am aware offerings directly to Adeboye for personal use - if you have proof of that, then make it known.

I believe he's been a member of RCCG for many years, so where does the returning of money start from? From the first day he joined (if records were so well kept) or from a date when it was discovered he was corrupt? Who decides on this date?

RCCG returns 1 kobo, y'all will come back and claim he gave more. if they return 50m, people will still say he gave much more but they are witholding the rest. You CANNOT satisfy people's desires, no matter what you do.

Since that is the case, I leave it to the courts or the EFCC to decide. I will not pass judgment with insufficient information or based on speculation.

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Are you asking or saying they are all money changers?

But your quote says everything there is to understand there. And money changers don't mean bankers. If you don't agree I can explain more.

My versions of Bible are. NIV, NKJV, KJV, NLT, and the Vulgate.

Holla

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There were only"money changers" in the Temple?

Matthew 21:12-13 (King James Version)

12And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

I guess you use a Bible different from most of us.

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Aren't bankers equal to "money changers" that Jesus drove out of the Temple in anger? The fact that some people would do anything for money should not include those who call themselves Christians.

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You started by peeling her off. Not very good.

Talking about consistency, that place you quoted didn't say not to do usury, but not to collect interest from your brother who is poor. The big Q is: Who is your brother? And what is the definition of poor? And until you define those, the blanket condemnation of usury won't work. You can lend with interest to those who aren't your brothers. Also note that your brother you shouldn't lend to with interest are "the poor" ones. If a rich brother needs money to run business, he's going to profit from it, so he should pay interest. "I am your God that teach you to profit" is the word of God in the same Deuteronomy. Ok?

P.S: Tithing is in the New Testament and recommended by Christ Himself, maybe you should start by reading Matt 23 vs 23 (But let's not go over to tithing here please).

Holla!

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This guys saw the danger signal many of failed to see ahead and still refuse to acknowledge

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And he has started displaying his mentor's character by fraudulently editing my comment and pretending it came from me. You are finished in this forum

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@ Debosky,

Let me ask you this question, if a friend gives you gifts of cars and money over a period of time and was later accused by the police of theft and embezzlement of items just like the gifts he gave you. To make matters worse he is on the run from the police and declared wanted.

His crime has actually destroyed lives of pensioners and several young people. People have actually identified you (who preaches and talks about integrity and truthfulness to whomsoever cares to listen) as his friend with whom he spends time with and probably benefited form his crime albeit unknowingly. What are the christian steps to take as regards your culpability and the fate of what your friend has given you?

Would a good christian in good conscience continue to keep the gifts and insist that until his wanted friend is apprehended and pronounced guilty by the court he will continue to enjoy the gifts?

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If Adeboye GoDaddys pal is not guilty why not come to Nigeria to face the law instead of hiding in London or is that part of the RCCG teaching he learnt from being a Pastor too?

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You are right that guilty people can escape on technicalities, but that does not mean we should accept every rumour or accusation as fact. Forming an opinion is free, facts are sacred. I will still choose to err on the side of caution and give people benefit of the doubt before passing judgement.

Don't create another meaning - this is talking about looted offering i.e stolen money given to RCCG.

If the principle is what is important, then RCCG shouldn't keep a single KOBO of the looted offering, if it exists. The only way to determine this would be through investigation. This should not be restricted to only 'major items' but ALL of it.

I doubt very much that this is about what RCCG would 'lose' - it is about the principles involved as far as I'm concerned. RCCG would be acting as judge and jury to begin to return monies based on accusations alone. While judgement by courts may not be the only way to determine guilt, in this case where the alleged crimes are outside the church, we must take direction from the legal decisions taken by courts.

Many calls have been made for people to desist from fraud - that people are not mentioned personally does not mean it is condoned.

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You and i know that in law there are technical loop-holes and getting a good lawyer can give you a latitude of room to maneuver.

But the nitty-gritty is that perception matters a lot, we don't start to form our opinion on the basis of a court simply pronouncing a person not having a case to answer.

Very few nigerians believe the elections declared as OK by the courts are actually so, otherwise Segun Oni and Akala are good candidates for ordination as pastors as they are now. Many still believe OJ simpson has some connection with his ex-wife's murder

where we are told he lost the civil case but won the criminal case (correct me if am wrong here).

The question and the point of this thread is not to trace every kobo Akingbola paid to RCCG but on major items like the aircraft issue (if true) and any cheque or physical item from him. Church should be perceived and seen setting a standard by fleeing from any form of corruption by things of this world. Whatever RCCG would lose in returning such items and monies it would gain by maintaining a moral high ground.

Plus am surprised daddy GO has never picked out Akingbola during Holy Ghost night and warn him to desist from fraud same way they catch adulterers, witches etc by saying 'somebody here' ,

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What! you lost money investing in shares too? Am waiting for your co-traveler tkb417 to come out calling you a fool!!

Anyway in response, i'll take you back to Enron's case, the executives where found to be involved in insider trading amongst other fraudulent activities that crashed the company. Last time i checked a number of them were jailed.

If the Citibank management were not found to be involved in fraud it's ok to get  a bailout without the sack.

And what's the value of the Ferari compared to Akingbola's properties about equivalent the shareholder capital of the bank

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I have never accepted it as 'normal', but I am no longer naive enough to think that simply being a pastor means you can't be engaged in fraud. That is the sad reality of things. I do not tolerate such behaviour in any form, but at the same time, I will not participate in condemning individuals without due process and hearing their side of the matter.

Pastors should be above board, but the bible also advises us to be wise - don't follow blindly expecting the title of 'pastor' will remove any risk of corruption.

If he is indeed guilty, there will be lots of time to condemn him - I see nothing wrong in letting the process of accusation/trial/prosecution take its course before passing judgement. The haste to not only condemn the man, but more importantly link his corruption to RCCG when no such evidence exists is unacceptable to me.

It is against the ethics of the profession to steal money belonging to investors or shareholders, so this is not a matter of personal integrity, it is a matter of professional capability. A bank manager who cannot keep his hands off depositors' funds is not fit to be in the profession. A banker who diverts funds or gives loans to unqualified lenders is not competent to keep his job.

If he had an affair, then that would be a matter of personal integrity.

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Again and again Debosky you keep making conclusions based on faulty premise. If you find it alright you are entitled to your opinion but i find it difficult to accept as normal an ordained pastor in one of Nigeria's largest churches enmeshed in serious allegation of fraud and breach of trust. To add to it he is on the run from the law.

Meanwhile his professional capability is not in doubt the issue at stake is his personal integrity

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The guy is very hard of hearing and that's the bane of everything he's doing.

Lion Bank was Managed 100% by Muslims, even their staff was more than 80% Muslims and yet where is Lion Bank today? It's not about religion, it's about time and chance in making good decision. I have the shares of AIG (America International Group), and the management was one of the best, yet they failed in their decisions and my shares lost 80% in less than 6 months. Did you notice that America bailed out Citi Group with tax payer's money? CitiBank management failed and they didn't ask the CEO to return his Ferari Enzo.

Wake up oga investor.

Holla!

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@precap2

I guess 'ranting' is a very friendly word in your vocabulary and you come here trying to sound sanctimonious. Learn to comprehend before thoughts form in your mind.

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^^^ Oga

go and play ludo

this is not your forte. im sorrym ure not making sense

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@Debosky,

At least i can say you actually read through my post before your replies unlike the other two guys with comprehension problems.

You don't need to tell me there is risk at every in every investment even when it is advertised as risk free. If you read my post well however i clearly stated i blame myself for the investment decision but i still do blame the management headed by the CEO. I don't know how you missed that

You obviously got your conclusions mixed up here. Akingbola flaunted his religioius credentials to show a false air of integrity which matters in business No? If you say he conned us with that then we are getting somewhere. He is that last CEO we expect to be accused of fraud even before Ovia or Elumelu.

Don't forget this is also religious section.

They hold morning devotion there too, new info , but where the CEO's accused of acquiring  properties all over the world with values close to what their banks lost?

Sorry sir, standards always matter when dealing with anyone otherwise anything goes becomes defensible

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he invested in ICB and lost money? hehehe

how he lost money i dunno cos he was supposed not to be a 'speculator'

my investment 101 tells me, a speculator is someone who buys to spot economic gains and sell

This foolish man sold when he was supposed to keep and kept when he was supposed to sell

hehehehehe

foolish man indeed

lmao

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And how is it my problem if you have difficulty comprehending english? Must you post at all cost? If you got nothing more to write move over

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After the long ranting, what's your point. Please be brief and to the point.

Holla!

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What the crap are these emergency investment analyst who are probably yet to get of school whining about?

Do you know how many investment houses in Lagos (Including   Falcon Securities allegedly owned by Akingbola and wife) who analyze the market also lost money without saving their entire investement. I am just a small time investor  in ICB shares not a guru and all i expect is growth in my investment from a public offer. I am not a speculator and the only person  apart from myself i can hold responsible is the management of the bank.

I also invested in GTB managed by muslims at he top and it's being wonderful in terms of returns, bonus and dividends. ICB managed by alleged pastors gave me no dividends and only crappy dividends.

They deceived all by making their staff have morning devotions and share word for today. They (including Oceanic) were busy announcing awards of best this best that thereby deceiving shareholders. Meanwhile they were busy carrying out insider dealings giving loans to family and cronies and acquiring personal properties on the island and abroad.

Any wonder the investments went almost belly up? Don't you know ICB and a few others shares took a very heavy battering compared to other banks?

Continue to defend them while people of other faiths laugh their buts out on very shallow standards Christians hold themselves to. Always in a hurry to embrace fraud and hide, defend and protect bad behavior.

Is someone still saying the current state of Intercontinental has no relationship with Akingbola's management style?

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Let me tell you what is happening. Vanguard reported about this months before it started happening. Some big dogs want to take over 5 top banks in Nigeria. The Feds pumped in the money in apparent deception. Just as the banks shares are now depreciating as after effect of the CBN stupidity, CBN will now revalue the bailout fund into shares in cerncert with SEC and sell the shares to those big dogs ostensibly to recoup the "tax payers money". But the plan had been hatched long before it materialized. Don't forget that when CBN was giving the money to the 5 banks they made it clear that they would recover the monies thru selling shares of the banks in the capital market.

It's no accident, it's a well ochestrated plan.

Holla!

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and so? did they tell you the money would not be repaid?

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What exactly is Tudor up to here?

I seem not to understand her stance on this topic.

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^^^ u get time

Tudor only wanna argue

he doesnt think

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Madam Tudor, I know you really like people to think you are smart and thats ok, but I think you should take a little bit of time to read through and understand the reason behind a comment before throwing around words like silly. So let me explain the reason for my comments to you maybe this time you will get it.

I asked a question if there is anybody in this forum who has lost money (deposit of any type not money you invested in shares) in Intercontinental and have not been able to collect, somebody now responded that he invested money in 2006 that is worth way less than that today and I was pointing out that his investment thing was not just because of Akingbola stealing money but a market wide thing, AIICO, AP, Mobil, Chervon stocks are all down significantly so is this because Akingbola and Ibru stole money or maybe it's also because all these CEOs were making bad decisions too like you suggested?

And it's so funny how you simply can not make your point without calling people names and yet you are the Mrs Perfect thats is always quick to condemn others.

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Calling me names won't do any good. Just take to my points.

You can't, you are only encouraged to get such details from their website and stop disturbing busy staff.

Yes, because Vanguard reported it and finally it's happening. You don't visit home often. I think you need to visit home more often now to understand the spirit of our people. I read Vanguard, Sunnewsonline, Huhuonline everyday and get the goings on in town and I'm often around to feel what's happening also. Our people are full of this kind of politics. I mentioned Savanna bank just as example and you never answered to it. Do you always like tangential argument? Do you know that Nuhu Ribadu went on exile when he was being pursued by the police and Fed Govt? The same Ribadu is now found sinless by the same police and Fed Govt. Our people have inordinate desires and have the queerest ways of satisfying them.

You made some funny contradiction here. US is a large as a continent. Accepted. Banks are mostly community banks and not National banks. Accepted again. But you mixed it up a little here:> Nigeria is like a state in US and therefore the banks that failed in Nigeria are like community banks because they don't have representation in the entire Africa. Compared to the balance sheet of the failed US banks our Naija banks were like baby banks and not up to community banks. And don't forget that those US banks failed from the loans they gave out to customers while these Naija banks have not really failed but have over-burdening bad debts.

Nigeria is good my brother, though the quality of leadership has not been impressive. But all countries pass through this phase anyhow.

Holla!

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