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Is This How We Plan To Root Out Religious Fundamentalism? Which Is Worse?

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1330531496488&ref=mf

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Is it possible to have a National policy of any sort if there is no agreement across the nation on the issue? Take education for example. People are fighting over whether it is okay to teach evolution in state schools. It is one thing to have private schools and allow them to teach whatever it is that they want to teach but once you have state sponsored education then we need a consensus on what will be taught.

Perhaps one solution, for issues like education, is to have no state education at all. Let all education be private.

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Perhaps the Religious War in Nigeria has already begun, it is just taking a while to heat up.

I've been promising to finish the Wars of Religion thread with France's Revolutionary Wars but I've been too lazy and distracted to get into it. I really need to get my act together. But yes, My Joe, The Reign of Terror can very easily happen in Nigeria like it did in France. Some people will say that Abacha's Rule was already a reign of Terror, but he had nothing on Robespierre.

When I consider Boko Haram, Davidylan, and weighing in on the Deist camp Deepsight Plasto Robespierre II when he makes comments like this . . .

. . . I see nothing but armed conflicted in Nigeria's near future.

Okay, Deepie, I know that you were just being rhetorical when you said that but I have no doubt that in the atheist camp there are similar sentiments building up amongst some people.

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You have to give it up for largerwhenindoubt whose clear thinking is nonpareil compared to those of the intellectuals who are intellecting against the time tested method of revolting.

During the French Revolution, King Louis was beheaded, then his beautiful wife, the infamous Marie-Antionette, got the same treatment.

Then other noblemen.

Then suddenly countless ordinary people were being denounced as being anti-republican and sent to the "tribunal" which sent to the guillotine just about anyone brought before it.

Then the leaders of the revolution (like largerwhenindoubt), including the judges of the tribunal themselves wound up under the guillotine.

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You, love, are preaching to the choir. I agree 100% with you.

It is so wrong and on too many levels too

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That, Ohsisi, is the tragedy that Nigeria has become. Kill a robber during an operation or a jihadist whist he's trying to blow you up with himself but do not capture them, interview them then summarily execute them.

But then, Naija pass understanding. Pray for the peace of our own Jerusalem

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My heart beat so fast to see them shoot and kill people in this manner even the disabled

This is the sort of barbarism we expect in the middle east with beheadings and stonings in a field with children watching

not in a supposedly democratic nation.

What seperates us from animals then?

How do these men sleep at night after slaughtering their fellow human being like this without solid evidence and no benefit of a trial

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In as much as I detest Islamic terrorism with my whole being , I hate this sort of open,summary execution even more.

How do we know these people are the culprits

there was no trial whatsoever

are we in medieval times?

This is very very  disgusting and disturbing.

How do we know some innocent people were not pointed out and executed in this barbarism

we all run the risk of being killed in this manner if this is condoned

This is just not right.

This isn't justice

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Thanks, nuclearboy. Thank you!

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Not a judge but I think both of you have a point AND reason for your opinions. I think David is fed up of the history and wants these people to have an idea what they like to give others. If the killers on that recording were civilian christians, I'd understand it was vengeance though not totally support it. But these are civil servants attacking the finger that feeds them.

I think Maven looks at the horror of shooting a defenseless person without any emotion IN PUBLIC and is horrified. But maybe David is just tired of these things repeated over and over. If you were there (onsite), you'd probably want to pull the trigger yourself.

I may be right or wrong but please guys, don't personalise this. Funny that both believe themselves joint-heirs - how would you relate in heaven?

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I watched this video on another posting and was sick for days. Whoever these guys are: soldiers or police, Christians, Muslims or Atheists, they're animals in human bodies. It shows that Nigeria is, by and large, still a barbaric country. The Police Commissioner and the Commanding Officer of the Nigerian Army under whose jurisdiction this took place should be made to either face death penalty or produce these murderers, who should be subjected to the same treatment they meted out to their fellow Nigerians. If this were to be pursued, this dastardly act of extra-judicial killings wouldn't happen again in Nigeria. Mind you, this is not happening only in relation to religious unrests in the North or in relation to the Niger Delta crisis, it’s happening across Nigeria. It brings to mind what happened in Ijebu Ife in Ogun State last December, when police officers—following the fatal shooting of another police officer by a mob of youths—went from house to house and shot dead anyone they found in those houses. It happens on road blocks as well. It's a shame, and nothing in this world can justify these extra-judicial killings.

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Yeah . . . and i suppose you will be removing the old testament from your bible anytime soon right? I wager even Abraham was an avowed murderer too.

The typical nonsense we hear from these false "christians" who equate lengthy posts with some intelligence.

Sorry you didnt just "make a mistake" . . . you keep MAKING MISTAKES and think that somehow you're on a self righteous pedestal because you made a thread about it. You go meet your "followership" on facebook . . . they perhaps might care about your "repentance".

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Lol and I assume Davidylan knows those with credibility. You can keep your assumed credibility. I guess I'd be safer around someone who made a mistake and repented, than an avowed murderer.

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That's nonsensical. I mean of all people to "call others out" . . . leave that to those with credibility.

You can quote the bible to justify your senseless spite . . . out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks too . . . we dont know how much deceit, lying, hypocrisy and unbridled arrogance is locked up in your own heart either.

I can defend my comments anywhere anyday . . . i'm sure you would be wondering how much evil was locked up in the heart of Elijah who slew 450 prophets of baal himself. What of the God who ordered the killing of Amalekites? Is he evil too? What did those little babies do to deserve that?

Care to tell me how much evil was in the heart of Christ when he called out the pharisees for being vipers?

I think you shld keep your discredited opinions to urself . . . to be honest i'd rather be lectured by an atheist.

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No, Davidylan. I dont hold grudges like that, sorry to disappoint you. I dont know what you are smoking tonight, but you are not the 1st person I will call out for making insensitive statements, as I did when Tudor and Pastor AIO commented when freecocoa lost her mother. And I have never applauded you for anti-Islamic views. Rather I gave you props for shedding light on Islamic views whenever Abuzola tried to wangle a lie. Even when I have disagreements with people I dont speak such evil. The mouth speaks from the heart's abundance so I wonder how much evil is locked in there to make you say such a thing.

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And who will be doing the violating and who will be violated

Who will be doing the revolting and who will be revolted against

and who will do the consuming and who will be consumed.

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A Message toall those Intellectual Nigerians who write motivational stuff founded on theories thatonly work in a perfect world, This is saying, shove it.

Better get of your arm-chair and tell Nigerians exactly what to do and ot go to Chruch for solace or start sweeping dirty streets when your taxes are payin gfor it to be swept, only a violent (utterly consuming revolution will save this country)

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I think the tragedy in this is that the security forces no longer even bother to consider the effect of such a recorded display on the pysche of the people and nation. I have had the misfortune to be present when some robbers (caught during a gunfight with the police) were executed. First they were shot for sport (in knees, ankles, shoulders etc), left for a couple of hours groaning and screaming in pain then gathered together and automatic fire sent them across the divide. I was visiting the head of SARS (a university coursemate) and when he said coldly "waste them", I knew what it meant but didn't expect something so cold and merciless.

Jos, Boko Haram etc, are a tragedy but this video and others like it just worsens issues. Next time, the rioters would know what to expect if caught and would also, show no mercy or sense of restraint. It is the same that makes robbers go after policemen and kill them simply because they expect the same mercilessness.

@Chris: Christian or not, they are policemen and sworn to defend the people they murdered like so many maggots and whatever the circumstances, this was wrong on too many levels. Were they civilians, I'd say it was for vengeance. Training shows and these were definitely police.

@Holy Japhet of infinity:

like Abuzola would say, "wara guana mana"?

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Big bros! I dey chase moni, wetin i go do?

But on a serious note, how dare you address the holy prophet of the Oneness of Infinity without bowing down? ? ?

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MyJoe, I couldn't have said it any better than you did, God bless you bro.

All these happened when the country had no "leader", as Dele Giwa once wrote "one innocent life taken in cold blood equals a million lives lost in a pogrom, " and i remember the title of that column "death of a namesake" written when Mopol shot and killed Dele Udoh (US based)who came to represent Nigeria in a tournament in 1981, (the kids don't remember this)

When will Nigeria get her act together?

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Chris,

I (and I think others) are not disagreeing with you that the rules of "civil" engagement go out the window when the bullets are zipping inches past your face and you see your loved one lying on the floor in blood. Its human and natural to seek vengeance.

If events unfolded as shown in the video, police (if they really were) went round gathering people from their homes and then proceeded to execute them on the street - this not done in self-defense or retaliation for the death of a loved one - where is the sense or justification for this? were those men and teenagers the ones who killed people in the riots?

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@Arte et al

I know it sounds somehow but I hate to say those people were not really local police or even soldiers at that, why you ask?

Just before I came on here last night I was with friends when the girl that told us that story walked in, I wish I can convince her to tell her story but before then let me give you a brief part of what she told me.

She is a student at the university of jos and was taking her bath that faithful morning when the muslims struck only they came in the form of soldiers and barricaded the two exit points from the hilly little hamlet they were staying. When she heard the noise and comotion outside she ran out and saw that a they were soldiers on both sides of the barricade and all the students started running towards it, after about 15 secs they noticed the people in front were falling one after the other like flies. . . . . the "soldiers" were the hausa men and they were hell bent on finishing them. A guy that was running back pulled her hand and they started running back towards the top of the hill, then the soldiers started closing down on them and coming up the hill, the boy that pulled her back got a bullet in the neck as he turned to shout on his friend to duck and that one already had takena bullet in the head. The one that took a bullet on the neck gave her his blood stained WAEC certificate and motioned for her to run for her dear life. . . . .when the christians heard what was going on they stormed a nearby muslim settlement and started killing muslims too that was what made the "soldiers" make a U turn to go protect that village.

My point here is that, killing defenseless people is wrong when things are all right, but it takes more that human control to look in the eye of someone who just murdered your sister or rendered her blind and say wait we will hand him to the police. My point is the circumstances have to be put in perspective then we can judge.

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Deepsight. . . .Where have you been? Missed you. . . .Hope you are good out there?. . . . .

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Another confirmation of what i have said repeatedly:

There is nothing even remotely christian about Davidylan.

And i'm afraid this is the very embodiment of the worst form of hypocrisy in religion. What sort of "christ-like" person would make this sort of statement ? ? ? ?

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I could not have said it better. . . . .Nice one. . . .

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. . . And there was nobody left to cheer.

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There is very very bold fine line between killing in self-defense as is with the story you told, and cold murder of random people as is the case in the video. If it happened as the video shows, there is no excuse, no justifiable reason whatsoever for those kinds of actions.

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First off, I am cautious about pictures of this nature because it is not all of them that are genuine. I realised that after I saw pictures I did not need expert knowledge to know were orchestrated. They were quite good and even my friend who worked for an undercover security agency did not think they were doctored, but when I pointed out three things to him in them, he concurred immediately.

However, these things do happen frequently in Nigeria and I have a personal experience of it. I still dream of Shola sometimes since that night in January 4 2002.

So I can reword the poem of Pastor Martin Niemöller, the anti-Nazi activist, thus:

First they killed Boko Haram leaders, Davidylan cheered.

Then they killed suspected rioters in Maiduguri, Davidylan cheered.

Then they killed Davidylan, . . .

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So Chrisbenogor, would you say that we are at war?

I imagined that I was looking at local police dealing with their local citizens.

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You know, I've never really followed Davidylan's posts before. I've only read from him on the rare occasion that we are interested in the same thread/topic. Yet I've heard many reports of them, mostly coming from the moslems that say that he bombards their section with hate-filled posts. Hence the creation of Abuzola etc. Knowing all that about him still did not prepare me for the comment he made above. It is sad. Just too sad.

If people have broken the law by bombing police stations and killing police men then there is a proper procedure for bringing them to justice in a civilized society. I simply cannot see how you can justify what is in that video, not just as a christian, but as a civilized human being. You are not an animal sir, or at least I hope not. Can you not see that that is just so wrong?

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What is the fundermental difference between christian and islamic inhumanity madness insanity fundermentalism?

Religion will definitely kill itself off.It is already in the process of committing hara kiri, anyway.

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The only thing you got wrong was that you did not conclude your comment with "In the name of Jeeeeesssussss, Amen"

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i feel you chris, but both sides are guilty, i have a fellow atheist friend here in abuja who is an ex-christian and he happened to be driving through jos during the crises and he was stopped at a road block setup by christians and asked to recite john 3:16, he was lucky to have still been able to remember it, as they were letting him go he noticed that they stopped another car behind him after which they started smashing the car and pouring kerosene on the car about to set it ablaze, its obvious then that the occupants of that other car could not recite john 3:16 so they were not spared, so we cant just blame one group of people , like i said both sides are guilty,

in between, i sent you a yahoo instant message! r u signed in?

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What else can one expect from an untrained, uncultured barbaric force? In real societies, this will spark an investigation and these criminals in uniform will be brought to book but Nigeria, come on now!

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In a society professing to be civil, the police force, sworn and entrusted with serving and protecting the people, cannot leisurely make rounds about neighborhoods, pick at randomn anyone they deem suspicious, and then proceed to ruthlessly execute them in full view of the public. This is wrong from every conceivable angle and I daresay christians (of which I am one) should be the most vocal in their opposition of this.

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i think you r missing the point here david, its about the nigerian security forces, its not only in maiduguri they carry out this kind of acts, they do it every where even in niger delta too,

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its what islamic fundamentalists understand. I say continue shooting them.

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'Shock' is an inadequate word to express my initial reaction. Then 'anger'. Then. . ??

One question that immediately crossed my mind: who was holding the camera and filming those callous murders? If it was the authorities, what could they possibly have in mind - especially when they knew it could someday be viewed around the world?

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Maybe Nigeria would just be better of without a police force, or army.

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