This is what a dutch member of parliament had to say
Muslims have the right to believe a lie if they want to. They deny Jesus' teachings while they say they believe he was a great prophet. They kill each other and strangers and are promised sex in the afterlife. That is slow. I don't meant to dis Islam, but another thing is the prophet Mohammed had sex with a 9 year old girl. That is pedophilia, and these days he would be guilty of statuary molest and sent to jail. Jesus on the other hand was a true HOLY man , had no sex, wasn't preoccupied with the wrong head, and had morals. Where is the morality in having your way with a 9 year old little girl? Yes, Islam, when you examin the facts, is maybe not slow, but the people who believe this stuff are at least ignorant. I don't think they are slow, but I wish they would stop promoting a vicious lie. Kill so you can be rewarded with fornication in the next life is a bad motivator, and are the virgins also 9 or maybe 2 years old? Please, go to Heaven. Get Saved!
: Verily the likeness of (this) worldly life is as the water (rain) which We send down from the sky, so by it arises the intermingled produce of the earth of which men and cattle eat until when the earth is clad with its adornments and is beautified, and its people think that they have all the powers of disposal over it, Our Command reaches it by night or by day and We make it like a clean-mown harvest, as if it had not flourished yesterday! Thus do We explain the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, laws, etc.) in detail for the people who reflect.
while it is slow, the rest of the world, especially pat themselves on the back, starting up what has been done and in place among muslims, for centuries;
no wife of mine bears my last name without having their father's name in their official name!
wives are called zauj; meaning mate. husband is also a mate.
girls only academy is a known thing among muslim. when the west or the non muslim world does it, they think it is new and rave about it, turning a blind heart in on islam so that they do not acknowledge the islamic pioneering spirit.
while muslims have been educating women and people via video, the west jsut started www education, not paying attention to the pioneering spirit of Islam. even this process is now being used in medicine, in teaching, treatment of patients, etc!
backward indeed is islamic culture; Quran and Sunnah. Some people blood do not flow to the top; empty is the coconut. mooshy is the melon.
You started it when you responded to Olabowale thus:
I signified my interest in taking up on issuesin your book with regards to your doctrines in which TRINITY happened to be the first we would discuss
You perceived wrongly. I would accept if there is honesty, truth in your posts coupled with biblical verses. I have not made up mind but open to discussion. You could go to the threads opened or where I discussed with your folks and would see that none was able to deal justly on the issue of TRINITY etc and since you told Olabowale to come to your section if he wants to discuss the bible with you, I thereby took up the challenge.
Are you referring to OT or NT or do you care wie look into the bible for violence and see the peace preached therein?
this is the clearance u needed.
Take, for instance, the case of the Bible. On the one hand, the Bible presents the concept of monotheism, when it says: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord". (Deutronomy, 6:4)
On the other hand, the same Bible says: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Mathew, 28:19) - an injunction which clearly implies the existence of what the Christians call the Trinity.
Such inconsistencies surely make these beliefs untenable. When God is One, He cannot be Three. And if he is Three, then He cannot be One.
Similarly, at one place in the New Testament, Jesus Christ is Called the son of God(Mark 1:1) while at another place, he is called the son of David (Matthew 1:1). The Bible abounds in such contradictions. As we see it, this problem of contradictions has occurred because of human additions to the word of God. For modern man, such additions have rendered the Bible incomprehensible, and, in consequence, unacceptable.
I am surprise at Lagosboy. You can freely denigrade Religious leaders of other peoples faith in another Nairaland thread, yet you come here and complain when others are making valid suggestions about your faith. Talking about tolerance, why is it that no Church is allowed to be built in Saudi Arabia? Why the killing and maiming in the North by adherents of Islam? How many times have you heard that Hausa/Muslim community were attacked in the East except it is a reprisal, which rarely happens anyway?
If the truth be told, Islam is inherently violent. There are several verses in Quran that faithfuls can use to support there violent acts. The Bible condemns violence. Jesus preaches love, tolerance. Jesus never encourages anyone to kill for God or him. I doubt if the same can be said about Mohammed.
Brother to make it interesting, you have threas already on trinity, deity of Jesus etc, so you could ick on any one of such and continue from there rather than creating another thread.
Better still, what are the proofs that Jesus is God? I would need verses for this and please would also appreciate where Jesus and OT prophets preached same.
If this is your view you have missed it. Allah gave this instructions to the holy prophet during a time of war. The battle was essentially between Islam and the pagan religions of Arabia. Conversion into or from Islam could be likened to the activities of a secret agent,to undermine the war strategy and plans. Its just like an American posing as Russian and living among the Russians during the cold war to ostentiably reveal Russian secrets to the Americans.
The punishment for such high crimes which is also known as treason,has always been death.
Fast track to 2009. . . . . . in today's world the above is(or should) no longer be applicable, like I said most of these narratives are for moral examples not to be practicalised in modern times.
Or are you still at war? If yes,with who?
So take the Christian example,the war has moved to a spiritual level now,beyond the physical,the holy prophet did what he did,just like the crusaders back then-conquer lands and people in the name of religion. Now you convert people by appealing to their reasoning and sense of piety not by threats of death like in the old days.
Another fundamental flaw. Tell me is it the will of God that the fatwa be declared on Salman Rushdie,for his book 'The Satanic Verses'? If yes,why is he(Rushdie) still alive? Are you saying God cannot take his life where he is hiding? Does God really need a fatwa to take the life He created? or maybe God doesn't really want him dead,so why the fatwa? People mix-up their personal emotions and substitute it for the will of God,it happens in Christianity too,you are unhappy/angry about something and you assume your gut feeling,is the will of God. have a rethink,don't be defensive,think this through.
America's war with Osama, is political & thats why I expect Muslims like you to be able to perfectly extricate your religion from this,he has a grouse which he believes is from God,but its largely political. The Americans equipped him against the soviets & now he's coming back to haunt them,same way the americans cannot claim they are fulfiling a christian agenda.
Please don't start trying to quote half truths about the Bible,this is an Islamic thread,if you want to contest the Bible,meet me up in the Christian section. I know many people have taken you up on many of these falsehoods,so lets keep our eye on the ball here.
Nobody said he harmed Christianity and I am certainly not complaining,I was just using him as an example of the difference in ways we react to converts. Christians are confident ,our faith will get us into heaven,so there isn't any competition. He is free to convert and say whatever he wishes,we will pray that he finds his way back- NOT KILL HIM.
If Islam believes its a religion of God,what would one person's lies possibly do to change the 'will of God'? Or how will it affect all the millions that are already muslims? So like stated above,during the time of the prophet,changing faith etc was closer to what we call treason ,now . Today its not like that again. Killing one person is what people used to do in the Dark ages in Europe.
The prophet's grandson-Imam Hussain was beheaded outside Karbala in 680 AD because he didn't agree with the rulers of Islam(this incident gave rise to the birth of Shia Isam)are you telling me today 2009,if someone disagrees with the rulers of Islam,he should be beheaded?
@Jairzinho: I never said anyone who "converted" out of Islam deserves to die. If a person left Islam for a genuine reason, other than wilful deceit that others might leave it, which was his intention of entering it in the first place, there is no verse that says he should be killed. Otherwise the verse that speaks to leaving Islam and return to it, many times will have no place in the Qur'aan, and definitely no usefulness.
For example, one of my brothers converted out. And he just came back into it just few years ago. Many people are muslims, born or revert, yet don't understand a thing about Islam. Do you kill a person like that who convert out? is there not a chance for him to revert back in? What about the verse that says there is no compulsion in religion? You can be a believer, a non-believer or irreligious. Islam give room for all kind of beliefs.
Don't lie on me; Oh Brasiho.
Like I said in a previous thread,the problem is the mixture between the spirituality of religion + the political aspects.
Remove the political,everything is fine. What most people are looking for is for Muslims to call fellow 'muslims' out whenever they denigrade the religion & not justify their actions.
I still find it really sad the olabowale believes anyone that converts from Islam (apostasy) deserves to die !!!
When one reads statements like this from 'tech-savvy',supposedly educated adherents of a particular faith,you begin to wonder. . . . . . .
Also moderators should stop all this censor,closing of threads etc. Its things like this (censor)we don't need . We all need to TALK !!!
I am not Muslim but i think most ppl hate on muslim because of their misleading and untrusted sources errr the media? Those that I am associated with (different ethnic background) are ok ppl. I think we should see people as they are (human being) and not judge them for what they are(religion background)
Why will I still be your friend if you insult my wife? Yet my mother is more important to me. Yet Muhammad (AS) is the most beloved to me in all creations! Think man.
I do not even insult you, yet I called your home and you refused to pick up. And never you called me! Stop showboating, man. lol.
I hope you do have some jealousy in you. I am saying the good kind of jealousy.
@Olaadegbu: « #43 on: Yesterday at 11:38:54 PM »
A bere oro lowo iwo ogbeni, wo esi tio fun wa! Tell me who the father is; David, Capenter, who? Don't humor me, man. lol.
Is that to refute that Mo preached death to the infidels or that he inspired terrorists to commit atrocities in the name of their god? For your information, Jesus' prayer showed a forgiving heart to the sinners being used by the devil to crucify Him, as he is still using his men to persecute God's children today. To defend your nation againsts terrorists is not a wrong thing to do.
The word "infidel" is in Timothy. Timothy is a Book in the Bible! That kills the Infidel association with Qur'aan, since you can't even argue that Kafir means infidel. Or you will say that? And you need to watch plenty of Youtube videos of "ChristianMissionary attrocities" before you continue, please. Evidently, you are are not up to date in the "evil" of christianity and its biase against "palestinians" who even have Christians amongs its ranks, which is not what we can say about the Zionist Israelis!
You know Jesus never forgave one of the two thieves your Bible said he was killed along with! So in aggregate, it is a 50/50% if you depend on Jesus, even using your Bible reports as my argument point. And if a group designates another group as a terrorist group, it is okay, according to you to defend your homeland against the terrosist group. Can you blame the palestianians people then or any other group who fight those who invade them?
Really, to me action speaks louder than words. When I see Allah's name being ridiculed I don't hear or see any muslim carrying placards, picketing or protesting or burning effigies but let someone make fun of Mohammed ala the Danish cartoons, come and see the muslims in Nigeria killing innocent people, and this does not only happen in Nigeria, if you listen to the news you will realise that it happens all over the world. Do you still claim that you do not have Mohammed as your master? your imams even call him Lord and in your holy books which has highly exhorted him to the high heavens.
If you and I are friends, which we are not, and I hear you ridicule Muhammad (AS), our friendship is finished. Then just imagine if you ridicule the Lord of Muhammad (AS) and me? Only Allah will ever soften my heart towards you in each situation.
Are you saying that Sura 9:5 is a lie?
I simply state that those who are killed, as instructed by Surah 9 Verse 5 are those who start the fight against Muslims for being Muslims. You must know what the yorubas say about a child should be grown enough to handle the sword before he asked how his father died? Islam was matured, it being a city state, while the "disbelievers" were still eager to end it by killing all the muslims. Is there any reason that they shuld not rise up in arm against the enemy of "Allah?" If Islam said people should be killed as soon as they left Islam, should there be any reason for the verses that speak about no compulsion in religion and people leaving islam and returning to it, over and again? It is you and your cohort who are the liars, man and not Surah 9 Veres 5!
I know what they reported that Jesus said. I also know that Jesus cried, prayed and wept to "God!" Foolishly, some writers then turned around and called Jesus, the weeping, crying and praying man, god! How unreal is that, man?
I wo ogbeni yi, iwo awon 'eebo mi un" ti ko si e lara! I simple answered the "red lettered" verses, because you tend to emphasise them over the others. If they weren't important more than the other 12, you wouldn't have written them in red!
What I did was to react to what you presented as visually more important. Its like the way we left "holy ghost" alone and we iconoclastically talk abut the "son god!" If holy ghost was as equally important, you would not have relegated it to obscurity. Hence, you would be praying in the "name of holy spirit," instead of "in the name of jesus" to "father god!"
You see how I found a way to remind you that you are still worshipping three god, though you claim one God? You see very clearly the errors of your ways; having father god the most important, while son god is more important than ghost god! lol. In the famous Ijebu expression: Ema wule!
@Olaadegbu: You haven't retired this old "tired" website material?! man, O se pupo. You must be the one who have eyes can not see. Heve ears but can hear a sound. Whose heart is harder than a stone, because if you look under a stone after a rainfall, it will be wet.
Who is the another comforter that Jesus promised, if we take it that Jesus was the former comforter? If Jesus is not taking as the former comforter, please tell us who are the former that he was alluding to before he told us in the bible about another comforter?
Was the first/former abiding with you now? is the another also abiding with you? Was the former comforter a "holy ghost" since i know you will sheepishly argue that the another comforter a holy ghost?
And what is the difference between Jesus and any of the two comforters, if he is not one of the two, by nature and deeds, etc? Is Jesus still abiding with us now and howif you say he is?
My muslim brothers and sisters, lets watch how olaadegbu and his brothers and sisters will trip over themselves on these matters. If you have any other ideas, lets lob it at them. I wanna see their heart take a good pounding. Lol. They don't have a good conscience, but definitely they do have hearts.
The answer to your questions can be found in the article below.
MOHAMMED VS CHRIST
In his article “Self Hate, Revisionist History and Christophobia in the Movie Kingdom of Heaven” Dr. Ted Baehr notes some of the differences between Mohammed and Christ:
[li]“ Mohammed was the prophet of war; Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7). [/li]
[li]Mohammed's disciples killed for the faith; Christ's disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Tim. 4:7).[/li]
[li]Mohammed promoted persecution against the "infidels"; Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Tim. 1:13-15).[/li]
[li]Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ is the giver of life (John 10:27-28).[/li]
[li]Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (John 12:48).[/li]
[li]Mohammed’s method was COMPULSION; Christ’s aim was CONVERSION (Acts 3:19). [/li]
[li]Mohammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29, 35).[/li]
[li]Mohammed was a WARRIOR; Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13; 1 Thess. 1:10).[/li]
[li]Mohammed said to the masses, "Convert or die!"; Christ said, "Believe and live!" (John 6:47; 11:25-26).[/li]
[li]Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Rom. 3:15-17); Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Eph. 1:7). [/li]
[li]Mohammed preached "Death to the infidels!"; Christ prayed "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).[/li]
[li]Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels; Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary's cross (Col. 2:14-15) and His followers share in that victory (John 16:33).[/li]
[li]Mohammed constrained people by conquest; Christ constrained people by love (2 Cor. 5:14).[/li]
[li]Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god; Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, "Blessed are the peacemakers" (Matthew 5:9).[/li]
[li]Modern day disciples of Mohammed respond to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets; modern day disciples of Christ are deeply grieved at past atrocities carried out by those who were "Christians" in name only (the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).[/li]
[li]Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder; many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do strictly follow the teachings of their Founder (Rom. 12:17-21).[/li]
[li]Mohammed called upon his servants to fight; Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight . . . but now is My kingdom not from here" (John 18:36)[/li]
[li]Mohammed ordered death to the Jews (see A.Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford University Press , p. 369); Christ ordered that the Gospel be preached "to the Jew first" (Rom. 1:16). [/li]
[li]The Qur'an says, "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them" (Qu'ran 9.5); Christ said, "Preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15). [/li]
[li]Mohammed's mission was to conquer the world for Allah; Christ's mission was to conquer sin's penalty and power by substitutionary atonement (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 3:18).[/li]
[li]Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah; Christ claimed that He was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John 14:9). [/li]
[li]Mohammed's Tomb: OCCUPIED! Christ's tomb: EMPTY! ” [/li]
I think most religions are silly, but Islam is up there with the worst of 'em. Muslims are a very aggressive group of people. When I hear some of the crap they spout in the UK one cannot be but astounded at the arrogance and audacity and irony of preaching hatred against the same country one bent over to get a visa in.
If modern Christians were interested in holy war, REAL holy war, there would be no Muslim world by now. It would be irradiated deserts with "WARNING: RADATION" signs posted at their borders.
Muslims need to calm the Bleep down before that happens to them.
Anyhow, no black man anywhere across the world should bow down towards Mecca, the Arab (spits) capital. No Black should face Jerusalem and bow down to a Jew religion (christianity) either. We black don't need this imported garbage. Whether brought on camels, or whether brought by boats from Europe, same poo, different toilet.
Islamophobia is getting worse due to the act of your brothers in Jos, Kano, 9-11, London trains, Madrid, Mumbai.
Moslen Vs Hindu in India,
Moslem vs Buddhist in Thailand
Moslem vs Xtians In Jos
Moslem vs Atheist/freethinkers London and US
Moslems vs Traditional worshippers in Offa Kwara State.
In the so called xtian countries of the world, Moslems are allowed and practise without being restained. Most moslem posters here reside in these communities.
Have you seen what happens to xtians in Saudi Arabia and other Moslem countries?
Zamani Lekwot took up arms to resist the Hausa Moslem aggression and he was arrested by a biased president.
I wonder how many places in the Moslem world we saw protest against 9-11, 7-7, Mumbai, and Madrid the way Protests were held in Germany, Denmark and UK to protest the killing of Moslems in Gaza and Sarajevo
Hey, No offence intended! I probably just wrote your name to get ur attention!
Asides, at least on this thread and a couple others I've seen, you hardly criticize violence in the name of Islam, instead you often make references stating that other religions are violent too.
My point is simple; Tolerance is two way street. If you don't take offense, there would be no offense.
Stereotypists would refer to Islam as violent, the same way they would refer to Africa as poor.
Perception for them is reality. What they see is what would they believe. They don't have the patience to look up close.
The fact that 95+ percent of mass killings( say more than 100 people at once) worldwide, was done in the name of Islam is enough for them to conclude that Islam is violent. In the same vein, the fact that 95% of the pictures seen about Africa is Disease, Hunger and Wars is enough reason for them to conclude that Africa is a backward dump pit.
Fact is, majority of us- You, I , the President, The Imam, The Engineer, Cleaner and whoever we are- We base most of our judgements on stereotypes.
I think the onus of responsibility is on Muslims to discredit intensely, any violent brand of Islam.
Isn't it noteworthy that Christains are always the first to shout down other Christians who exhibit intolerance towards Muslims?
The killing of innocent is a crime wherever and my point is
Atheist kill innocents
Christian kill innocents
Muslims kill innocents
Jews kill innocents
Why isolate muslims only? There is a extremism problem in islam no doubt but it is just same with every other faith. To say islamic culture as w hole is slow is just a foolish and shallow thinking and that is my grudge!!
I have not insulted you, i asked you a question? You could have said NO or YES to it!!
That is not the issue here, we know extremism is rife in Islam but is it fair to group the principled and good ones with the rest?
When people talk about what others are doing to tarnish the image of islam, i expect some sort of SEPERATION to exonerate the good muslims!
And who told you people are not trying to preach to other muslims and non-muslims about what Islam stands for?
A goat that will get lost, will bleeping get lost!
There will always be radicals and extremists, dat we dont condone but what can we do?!
I hate getting involved in inter-religious debates and issues, i am tolerant enough and respect other people's religion
Tell me who are the perpetrators and who were the real targets?
I do think it is time we call a spade a spade and face where the real problem is.
Instead of allowing what happened in Holland affect innocent Nigerians in Kano, you should go and preach religious tolerance to the muslims there. If anti muslims are those who point out the truth to you, then what will you call those who kill in the name of Islam? or are you saying this those not happen?
Tell me which faith had its adherents exclusively killed on 9/11.
Nairaland is just fast becoming a forum where all u anti islamic people post jargon everyday it just sickening. dont you guys have any other worthwhile thing to do rather than fuelling religious intolerance everyday.
the other day it was if mohamed was never born , today it is another jargon.