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Isn't Time For Islam To Be Reformed?

Just watching TV and saw the botched London terror plot and with links to some Islamic Jihadists. Is not time   for these people to sit down and argue with people of opposing views and let superior arguement win? Why must people be forced to agree by guns not by brains?  Do you know that women are not allowed to drive in Saudi and  yet they are not taking up guns against that government?  A feudal class /family  is controlling their oil wealth .

Why would Muslims in northern Naija kill southerners over a published cartoon in Scandinavia? Why cant prominent people of that faith condemn their acts?   To my knowledge, Emir, Sultans,  and prominent Islamic scholars have never publicly spoken against religious intolerance in Nigeria. Why must adherents of Islam incline to those hardline postures even when they disagree? They are always afraid to speak out.

It’s the truth we speak that will save us, not the truth we know

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Apparently, you have never read about the looting and rampage of Muhammad and his followers, some unprovoked,the jewish settlement massacre,remember!.

Olabowale please don't push it,we have already settled that matter and some Muslim apologist on the forum says he did it for a reason and I am willing to excuse him,afterall he was a mere man but If you return and insist on these"peaceful" stuff,I'll be forced to post some of his actions here.

If you folks have already reformed and now see the hoodlums amongst you as misfits and not the norm,say so boldly.

Moving on.

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The only extended period of peace the children of Israel, the so called 'Jews' have ever known was under the islam ic rule in spain. The base of the european civilization, currently and that of the USA by extension is also under the same muslims in spain. The people of african benefitted tremendously in this, you have the Timbuktu academic enlightenment, having over several Millions of manuscipts, unfortunately, the africans and the rewst of the world are not investing in this treasury. The individual Muslims need to reform themselves by going back to the true practise of this true religion, a way that individuals will receive the mercy of God, InshaAllah. Must people who criticize Muslims forget that Islam is different from the adherents. Human beings have the porpencity to do evil. to do good takes sacrificing, suppression of evil is a thorough effort of conscience reawakening.

The books of islam contain oceans and seas of blue prints of good individuality, communual good governance and the like to include global cooperation. the blind, the sick hearted can never see nor feel it. The sweet nectar of islam is not a Dr. feelgood syndrome. It is not a blind faith conditioning. The tormiol, the world over where muslims are active participants are a matter of personal, communual or national issues. You will never find an action of the Prophet (AS), his companions (RA) or even the people within the first three generations. They accepted their conditions and patiently await the decision of Allah (SWA). Muslims, be patient and persevere.

True forgiveness and mercy that was practiced by any being that ever walked the surface of the earth, including all the prophets was practiced by Muhammad (AS). The first war that Muslim engaged in was Badr. The Muslims in that month of Ramadan were victorious. Abu jahal and others were killed from the Idol worshippers. The Muslims lost just nine. The muslimscaptured a number of the Makkans as well. However, the Muslims did not ill treated these captives. They allow them to buy their freedom by simply teaching the Muslims.

Muslims had a lot of treaties and alliances with Christians, jews and even the Idol worshippers. There was no treaty or alliance that was broken by the Muslims, at that time a fledging community that cooperated with its neighbors.

The victory of makka came without shedding any blood. Upon the victory of Makka, the makkans gathered together to seek forgiveness from the prophet and his followers. The Makkans knwe that they had been unjust, harsh and practiced evil against the Muslims. A good portion of the early Muslims were from makka. Muhammad had the chance, the opportunity and the capability to visit retribution on the makkans. Instead, he forgave them all, across the board. This amnesty gave rise to the makkans realizing the mercy in true Islam, hence in a short time after, the whole of makka became Muslims. In a short time still, the whole of Arabia became Islamic. Islam became acceptable amongst the people of Muhammad and people all over the world. It is the only religion and a way that every group fit, at least in the month of Hajj and in the less hajj known as umrah. If you want a true United nation, then that is it.

The muslims unfortunately, have adopted the sunnah (way) of the disbelievers. Violency was unknown in Islam prior to recent history. It is crusade that is the first nature of christianity and zionizm that of the Jews. The muslims have resorted to act in the same fashion. It does prove the hadith of prophet Muhammad (AS) which says that the Muslims will follow the Christians and Jews footstep by footstep. That the Muslims will follow so closely, copying them, that even if the y enter into the hole of a lizard, the Muslims will follow them, even knowing it is not arewarding act. Those who kill themselves, in the case of suicide bombers, it is known in the Qur'an and in the Hadith that people should not take a life, espectially your own life. Who ever take his own life will be raised up taking his own life, over and over in the same manner.

Further, Muslims are given a methodology of warfare. Muslims do not fight, sectionally. You have to be mature and be properly organized before you engage in war. But moderation and lenency must be practiced. There are orders in Islam. Islam guides from Cradle to the Grave.

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@babs787,

You live in Nigeria I suppose.

Did Israel attack Lebanon unprovoked?

What has the Muslim countries done to stop a terrorist group operating within a country?

Palestinians hurl stones you say,apparently you've never heard the words "suicide bombers".

The religious violence in Northern Nigeria has always been started by who?

answer=Muslims.

The Christian killings came after how many Muslim terrorist unprovoked acts?

Look my brother,if you must defend Islam,you are the one that needs to open your eyes and read all the events the most recent being the beauty competition and Danish cartoons that led Muslims in Northern Nigeria doing what they do best.

The spillover in Onitsha and Aba in recent years which I and every Christian I know condemn greatly is because we are getting tired of burying our loved ones who have been killed by Muslims because they are Christians.

In the planes we are tired of sitting on one buttock in the airplanes not knowing how many Osama bin ladins or Osama bin lindas are on board the same flight.

How can we stop one who is on mandate from Allah to blow us up while his eyes are fixed on Virgins waiting to welcome him into their bossoms.

The peaceful Muslims like you have a lot of work to do.

You need to reform.

Start by preaching love for your fellow human beings to your Children so that they don't grow up hating people especially Christians and Jews.

I posted an Arab TV video in another thread where a 5 year old was calling Jews pigs because a Jewess killed Muhammad.

If that's what your Koran teaches you,you need to change that.

If you indeed preached and practiced peace,the world would see it and there would have been no need for this discussion.

Shallom.

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why r u christians not being specific. u try to behave and talk as if ur religion supercedes islam. why not sit down first and check all the atrocities and blunders (discrepancies in your book before judging. u claimed that islam was established on terrorism. all the war holy prophet fought, was is for self defence or what. before you say anything on ay religion apart from yours, always establish fact and know little about religion. lets face the issue of terrorism. what is the cause of terrorism and what is terrorism. when u truly answer this question, then u can know the difference between islam and terrorism.what do you call israel exchanging bullet with stones hurled at them by palestine children, what do u call the barbaric kiiling of innocent soul in palestine, what do call the recent of innocent soul in lebanon. etc, what do u called the one that happened at Jos caused by christians (giviog a name in order to hang it. muslims are peaceful people. let me stop here for you comment

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@jagunlabi,

Oh, I see you haven't really cured yourself of your age-old misconceptions. You only arrived at a miscarriage and slanted idea by describing Islam in Christian terms. And you shouldn't be so funny as to suppose that Jesus is not in Islam - even the most ignorant of Muslims will set you straight on that.

You mean you own deflection? Oh, I see. Nevermind that - we understand it's all too characteristic in your posts.

The 'flaws' that give you sleepless nights so that you're neither here nor there. No wahala - keep sweating it out.

Really? And you haven't seen your own confusion from the onset?

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Which Jesus are you referring to?Jesus of history,or Jesus of faith(the vatican version,i mean)?

You're right,neither mohammed,nor the vatican Jesus nor any other can give you salvetion,but yourself alone and the deeds of your own hands.Shikena!

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No,it was meant for christianity.Islam does not have "pastors" in their hierachial positions,and neither does islam have Jeshua Bin Joseph as it's true originator.Sorry that one was a poor deflection tactic,although i do not blame you for trying since both religions are similar in flaws.

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Now this is where the Koran disputes trinity and crucifixion,the basis of Christian belief.

171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

But remember that the Bible preceeded the Koran by many many years.

The Old Testament was already compiled and the new testament manuscripts had been gathered.

So it does make sense that the author of the Koran in starting a new religion had to dispute what preceeded it.

Apostle Paul said many false prophets shall arise and preach and teach differently from what Christ preached and taught.

So be not deceived.

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read the Korans account of Jesus.Pay particular attention to the red areas highlited by me for a reason.

Jesus is referred to as a sign,confirming Isaiah the prophet.

Jesus is declared by the Koran as a word from God.

Jesus in the Gospels declared himself as the word.

These are the words that the Lord used to speak to a Muslim cleric and he decided to follow Christ as the Koran declared in verse 55 that those who follow Christ are superior to those who don't.

Surah Chapter 3

42. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

43. "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."

44. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).

45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!

48. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,

49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

51. "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"

52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

53. "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness."

54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

56. "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

57. "As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."

58. "This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."

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@kaecy5,

I don't know if there's any quote in the Bible or Qur'an exactly worded as "Christ is the answer." The closest to it that I can think of in the Bible is in John 14:6 - 'Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me'. Perhaps, Jesus' declaration to be "the Way" is why Christians use the expression "Jesus is the answer".

It's true that most Muslims we know and engage in discussions have very limited knowledge of the Qur'an (the same can be said about Christians and knowing their Bible). It's often difficult to point out anything to someone who hasn't read the books and goes only by what they've made up their minds to believe - whether those things are right or wrong. Sometimes, some reasonable people will be interested in listening to what one has to say when they're offered the challenge to check out those things for themselves in the texts.

In all, we still keep praying and sharing in hope that these challenges will bring many to know the saving grace in Jesus Christ.

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I keep wanting to keep away from this Muslim/islam threads and their atrocities but I just can seem to pull my self away from all the Ignorance and the need to defend Islam by any means necessary.

The Ignorance by many Muslim forumites is so annoying.

Katashi is a good Muslim preaching the gospel of "peace" and proudly boasts that there has never been any Islamic bombings in Africa,apparently he thought Kenya and Tanzania and even Sudan were in Europe.

Some other character had also said there has been no terrorist act by Muslims in Nigeria forgetting that the Imams,Emirs and Governors in the North that preach hatred and death to America and Israel have incited them to go Christian headhunting are all terrorists and that church demolition in Zamfara is terrorism.

I would implore all Nigerian Christians in the USA to send a letter to their senator or congressmen about the plight of Christians in Northern Nigeria and the various human right violations as stipulated by the UN.

It is time the UN visited Northern Nigeria for a start because as we can see from these discussions they are not a people to be reasoned with.

As we say in Igboland,their sight have been clouded by blood.

We are trying to reason with people who have no concept of justice,human rights or even the ordinary law of live and let live.

People who are stuck with the mindset of a murderous lunatic.

The only language they understand is kill kill kill.

I weep daily for my nation Nigeria and what these animals have turned the place into.

I wonder what good explanations they have for the recent foiled attempts,"Islam is peace'.

It is getting old and I for one,I am getting sick of it all.

They have no choice but to reform if they want to live with  civilised people.

We are getting very frustrated.

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There was a man yesterday on TBN Dr Jeremaiah Cummings,formerly a high ranking nation of Islam minister who is now a minister of the gospel.

He had a miraculous conversion and has a book we should all get.

He quoted areas in the Koran where Christ was said to be without sin and also the messiah.

He got converted mainly by reading the Koran on passages about Christ.

I will get that Koran quote and post it here for any Muslim that is yet to read that area.

@Ndipe,surely Christ is the answer but until He comes into their hearts,they can at least live in peace with their neighbors or other Islamic sects.

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Reformed or not reformed, accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. Neither Mohammed nor the rest of them can offer you Salvation.

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@jagunlabi 4malik answered you well,I bet you confused the 2 religions.

In a nutshell you described Islam.

Good luck in stamping those out.

If you need suggestions we can help.

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10k u m4malik ve done that on so many occasions.

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-Well you can start off by shedding all those pagan elements in the religion

-You can stop hounding and demonising other religions,in other words,be more tolerant and try to understand other religions.

-Look for the true teachings of Jeshua the son of joseph.

-Stamp out peadophiles,homos,greedy moneyhungry pastors from the religion

-Remove from your doctrines teachings that tacitly encourage criminality in a grand scale

You can chew that over for now.

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I see the advice was meant for Islam. We've been through it before.

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What do u want us to reform in xtianity?

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Why are we arguing with this pple all over nairaland?

reform what?to stop sleeping with kids?

are u trying to provoke prophet mo.

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I'm sincerely sorry to have frayed your nerves, but believe me that I didn't mean at all to sound unduely in the way that might've informed your complaints. The point is that these are very pressing issues that need to be discussed and the time for drinking coffee round a table and treating these matters with 'politically correct' verbiage is over.

Today people are not safe to travel by air anymore because some Muslims believe that the way to preach Islamic peace is to plant bombs in planes and leave thousands of travellers stranded at airports.

Today people are not free to worship because some lunatic Governor of Zamfara State in Nigeria believes that destroying churches would please Muhammad and *Allah* more than developing his people and State.

Today people cannot walk the streets of Iraq without fearing that some crazed Muslim radical on assignment would blow himself or otherwise detonate a car bomb in a crowded and busy area.

Today people are told to just shut up and not question the insanity in these barbaric acts pretended as a means to propagate the "peace" that Islam preaches.

For all of these and more, I enjoy the forgiveness of God for not joining the camp of the 'politically correct' and gullible who don't want us to question these acts.

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Arabs have scores to settle with the West. What have northern Moslems got to settle with Southern Christians  in Nigeria? Is it oil as you said? After all northerners had been controlling  the oil sector before OBJ came in. You guys have not given me any answer. I think that some of you do not want anybody  to say anything against your religion. Can you enlighten us on your faith visa-viz the happenings around the world. Why is it that Southern  Moslems are not as violent as Northern Moslems, yet  they stand and watch  when their bothers and sisters get killed in the north?

A Christian pastor in Lagos was alleged to have set some of his followers on fire and Christians were the first people to condemn his devilish acts. Why cant   Moslems replicate this kind of act?

People always say oil without mentioning the fact that oil rich Arab nations are being paid royalties by these oil companies. They pay taxes and oil licensing fees, yet a family in these oil rich Arab nations controls these vast resources with iron fist. If I were a Moslem in those countries, I go battle my government ooh no be oyibo. How can Sultan of Brunei and Prince of Saudi be in the top ten world's richest people and yet some people in their countries live in captivity.

I want you guys to prove me wrong not by throwing insults on any person who wants to show their displeasure.

On the contrary, Arabs always look upon the West as a model to emulate, and to solve their problems. Believe me, if these Arabian countries would measure up to the West by 50% their subjects will stop dying as suicide bombers.

By further stifling people's opinion reinforces the thinking that your faith embodies some aspects of violence. pls.  Prove me wrong by facts not by doctrines or sentiments

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bari-cade or whatever your name is.i hope God will forgive u.

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i believe you just being unfair in your judgements about islam and our holy prophet Muhammed(Peace Be Upon Him). You go and ask for forgiveness from God For haven made that statement about Our holy prophet(PBUH). The middle east and the european countries have scores to settle and they are using islam as an excuse for thei quarrels. Have ever heard of any suicide bomber visiting any African country? Are ther no Muslims in Africa? Islam is Peace. Jihad is not all about fighting and killing people, it means more than that, for e.g. avoiding what the Almighty God prohibits us from doing is also Jihad. So pls mind ur useof language.

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I'm not abusing or harrassing other people's faith - or you would have had to ask Muhammad in his grave to have stopped the abuses in the first place by not killing people who were of a different faith than his.

If there's anything at all in your inputs, it fails to consider the fact that Islam propagates terrorism, and ardent Muslims are the ones who have been using violence to propagate their religion. The problem didn't start today nor is it a matter constrained to any divide between the West and the Arabs. Muslims are the ones bombing Indonesia, they're the ones killing themselves in Iraq where Shiites and Shias cannot agree on their doctrine, they are also the ones both bombing and throwing bomb scares in London.

To suggest that these incidents are not religious but painted to be so simply begs the question. What 'book' have the terrorists been waving when chanting *Allah's* praise as incentives for the unleash of terror to their neighbours? I would like to believe that it is otherwise than the religion of Islam - but facts are staring us in the face otherwise that ardent Muslims who 'believe in Allah and the last day' have been carrying out in Muhammad's true spirit the terror they find on the pages of Islam's holy book - the Qur'an.

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if u dont really understand a religion,its practices and norm,to be fair its better to keep quiet than say what u feel or what u hear mostly from people outside same religion.islam was not found on terrorist note as u claimed.prophet muhammad usually use war as the last resort on those who fight and persecute him.the problem with arab and west is better known to everybody-not religion in nature,oil,wealth etc.stop abusing and harrassing other peoples faith as u dont expect other people to do unto u.most of my friends are christian and we live happily.live west and arab alone they understand themselve better ,and the reason for the fight best known to them.not religion in nature but being painted to be so.peace be unto u.

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I agree! The religion of Islam unfortunately is built with an agenda to wage holy wars on all those who reject their prophet's teachings. You could understand if the targets of such holy wars were evilous and barbaric, but when innocent people are blasted to kingdom come, then one wonders how can reason prevail?

Mark you not all followers of Islam are violent, just wanted to make that clear.

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Well then, I suggest the reason that best answers to most of the questions you raised is simply this: Islam was established on a terrorist scheme. Now this may sound inflamatory, but that is not intended; rather, it's hard to see otherwise when the only conclusion from reading the history of the founder of Islam is that he spread his religion by sword and terrorism. The democracies of the West have treated this monster with "politically correct" lingo - now they have a hard time dealing with the same issue they initially had no qualms with.

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