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Love And Submission?

The book of Ephesians 5 verse 22-25 commanded  the wife to submit

to Husband while the Husband is asked to love the Wife.

Meditating upon these two word,  i questioned 'can men really

love as requested and can women be in total total submission according to scripture?

Also, is it easy to love than to submit?

your kind opinion will be appreciated.

Thank you.

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24 answers

And you adopted them as truth, no? That means they are also yours, then. And no, the book you are referring to is by no means the oldest religious book in the world, not even close.

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@Fadenike -

The answer is YES & NO. It is easier to love - at least the love that human beings profess to have. True love is very difficult to give, as it involves unconditionality, extreme understanding, superhuman tolerance and infinite forgiveness! So we give our version; based on WHAT we feel - which is only a meaningless shallow futile feeling.

If you truly love someone, then it CANNOT be difficult to submit to them if required to do so.

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Its a shame this thread petered out. I was really looking forward to hashing out this issue with Deep Sight and Jagunlabi!

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If Paul was aware of this then why did he issue his numerous Apartheid injunctions against womanhood ? ? ?

Speculation. Which doesn’t make sense at all events. What if the husband does not have the anointing or understanding?

Look at the above. It states very clearly “IT IS A SHAME FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN CHURCH.”

So do not tell lies, Mr. Agbaje. The scripture is clear.

It’s absolutely disgraceful. Are the women lesser creatures? Do they lack brains? Are they bound slaves? What egoistic, chauvinistic, misogynistic, barbaric and primitive mentality would lead any sane person to declare that a woman speaking up in a gathering “is shameful ? ? ? ?”

Please do not defend the indefensible.

This is an outright LIE, and I am surprised that you would peddle such falsehood. The quote from Corinthians above is explicit: it forbids them from speaking in Church.

1. That was not church.

2. At all events it proves my point that women could have the anointing. So why then would the barbaric Paul command them not to speak in church ? ? ? ?

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Do you really mean that you still have the nerve to defend your scandalous and utterly reprehensible misogynistic statements? ? ?

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The scripture here has to do with questioning. Women were relegated to the background under the Old testament , but in Christ, the middle wall has been broken.

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Since they were not allowed in time past to participate in worship,their introduction into public worship is strange to them now, They had many questions to ask, and by this , they were interupting the order of the services. Paul had to put a check on that by telling them to be silent and ask their husbands questions at home.

1 Cor. 14:35

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

They were not forbidden to speak. You have to compare this to other scriptures. Women have equal rights and priviledges in Christ. . There is no male or female anoiting.

WOMEN TEACH.

A notable woman was Priscilla who teach and pastor with her husband Aqcuilla

Acts 18:26

And he (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

1 Cor. 16:19

The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

WOMEN PROPHESIED PUBLICLY

1 Cor. 11:5

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth( Openly in church) with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head:.

So They do participate in service. The Corinthian church was the only one that had the challenge of women disturbance.

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You asked for it, here it is -

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak but must remain in submission, as the Law says. If they want to enquire of something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

This is a disgraceful verse.

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Deep sight

You should have pasted the scripture here. Because the bible didnt say that. It  talks about woman not usurping authority over "the Man" which makes reference to the husband.

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Mutual respect is a better word.

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^^^^ IMO, when you truly love someone, you find it also easy to submit to that person. The two go together. Love causes submission. If the husband truly loves his wife, then he should submit to her in certain situations, and vice versa the wife in other situations. I don't need the bible giving me guidelines on that. This is just pure common sense.

But we have to be very careful here what we are calling "submission". Different people interprete that word differently. Personally, i don't like that word being used in the context of marriage.

To me, the word "submission" means to respect other people's feelings, and in this context, husband and wife should respect each other.

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All your opinions count and i believe we can all learn from each other. Thus, there is no need to counter opinions.

In all, i deduce that it take God's wisdom and grace to abide by His word and to have a peaceful home.

since we all agree that marriage is partnership and that both parties need love and submission, i will appreciate your opinion on the second question ' is it easy to love than to submit'?

Thank you.

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Mr. Agbaje -

How can you assert that the Bible is not a se.xist document that advocates gender-apartheid against women? It is.

For starters, can you tell me why on Earth St. Paul insists that women must not speak when men are speaking?

   1. Are the women brainless?

   2. What if it is a woman in the gathering that actually has the anointing? What if the anointing is on a woman in the group, and not on the men?

Abi women do not receive anointing?

Tell me.

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@Deepsight,

I dont know how you come about thiese your biases against the bible. They are not correct. The word of God is not against women,but rather lets us know that the wall of separation is broken down.

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

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Yeah,very easy to practice.

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@ Deep Sight - You are onto a hiding to nothing here. We are speaking from two extremely different viewpoints here. I subscribe to the Bible, you don't. My response to the OP is based on the Bible, yours isn't, so there is no point in us debating on this issue.

You are surely welcome to your views, but remember, the OP asked the question based on what the Bible says about it, and i replied on what the Bible says, which i believe. There is no need to make it personal. Here is her question again -

The Bible says the main reason for divorce is the hardness in the heart of Man (human beings) - read an inability to forgive. This was one of the main teachings of Jesus Christ.

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It is no news that the Bible is a one-sided se.xist document which openly advocates Gender Apartheid against women.

For this reason “the Biblical Perspective” on this matter is not a perspective I will be keen to associate myself with. It is after all this same Bible that states arrogantly that women must never take leadership positions in the Church, and also commands them never to speak when men are speaking. This is a document that has scant regard for the rights of the woman – and this is scarcely surprising given that it was written by acclaimed male chauvinists such as Moses and Paul.

The commandments of ancient misogynists are definitely negotiable and every modern person must negotiate such primitive commandments out of his worldview.

I am sorry, but this is hoary spin. I am aghast that any person could make this statement.

How dare you state that - “A woman should submit to her husband irrespective of whether she thinks he deserves that submission . . .” – are you suggesting to me that a manifestly unworthy husband – such as one who engages in wife-beating, should still receive the “submission” of his wife? ? ?

Such a man should be decked right back by the wife, not submitted to.

This is frankly horrible. For what you suggest is that the woman should view her husband as God – that she should submit unconditionally, and through faith.

This a a plain mockery of the reasoning faculties of women. You appear to make it clear that your Christian view is that women have no brains of their own, and as such must “unconditionally” yield to the thoughts of their husbands.

Does it not occur to you that in this or that matter the woman might have a better perspective or better idea than her husband? Should she not in such situations prevail on him to yield to her view – rather than “unconditionally” submitting to whatever he says!

This is the whole essence of a “partnership” – two people are able to put heads together and come up with something richer than the ideas of just one person. It is no dictatorship, requiring absolute submission of any party: it is a loving democratic partnership – and this view I absolutely assert to be vastly superior to the fascist ideology which you have set out above in collusion with your fascist and chauvinist St. Paul.

Let us make this clear; your analogy states that women should submit to men as the church submits to Christ. Now the Church does not question or argue with Christ does it? It does his every bidding. So you are suggesting to me that a women should never question her husband? ? ?

In what age are you living, Romeo?

Romeo, I verily tell you that I try to be a polite person at all times but this statement above tries my patience severely.

I can comfortably state that this is way and above the most tragic remark I have EVER heard in my life or on this forum.

You state that a woman’s faith in her husband should be blind?

And you dare underscore that by adding that it should not be based on anything he does or does not do? ? ? ? ? ?

So a woman should have faith in her husband even if HE DOES NOT WORK AND REMAINS A LAZY FARTING WIFE-BEATING DRUNKARD ALL HIS LIFE? ? ? ?

Please your statements are offensive in the extreme.

Would you hold the men to the same standard? ? ?

Would you insist that a man must love his wife even if she has become the greatest who.re in Christendom? ? ?

This is only true where the husband is a pig-headed egoistic chauvinist.

This is too shocking to respond to. Again, only a megalomaniac – and a very insecure one for that matter, would cherish his wife’s submission over her love.

No doubt they were a bunch of insecure weaklings.

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@Jagunlabi - This was written from a Christian perspective, based on the OP's question - the caveat was clear. If you are not a Christian, or dont subscribe to the Bible, then you have to right to critique what i have written.

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Men don't need love from their wives? Men prefer submission of their wives to their love? What the. . . Abeg, my man, speak for yourself and don't draw all men into your egotrip.

With love comes respect.With respect comes deference. With deference comes submission, and this goes both ways.

When a family faces a serious crisis who are the people who face this crisis head on? Only the husband or both partners? We are not living in the bronze age desert society, in case you have not noticed. The family dynamics are different these days, especially in 2010.

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Romeo,

i really appreciate your contribution.

stay blessed.

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As you asked the question from a Biblical perspective, so will i answer from the same perspective.

The first thing to understand is that this is a commandment from God to both Husband and Wives. It is non-negotiable. The Bible makes this clear in the way it was said.

Secondly, it is unconditional, and not based on any premise - A woman should submit to her husband irrespective of whether she thinks he deserves that submission, and a man should love his wife irrespective of whether he thinks she is worthy of that love. I will explain later in the post why God made it this way.

How do we know it is unconditional? Well, look at the scripture again -

Eph 5:22-24  (Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.)

Here, the writer gives us an example of what he means, so there is no confusion or misguided interpretation. Wives should submit to Husbands as; (1) as they do unto the Lord, (2) As the Church submits to Christ. How does a Christian submit unto God and the Church submits to Christ? Unconditionally, and through Faith- which is substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. This means a wife needs to have faith in her husband's capabilities, otherwise she would be unable to submit to him. More importantly though, this faith cannot be based on what he has done, or what he does not do. It has to be a "blind" faith or belief, so to speak.

Eph 5:25  (Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her make her holy)

Again the writer gives us an example so there is no confusion. A Husband should love his wife, not only as Christ loved the Church, but also as he loves himself - Christ loved and died for the Church (Christians) whilst they were all sinners; so we know this was unconditional love. This is supposed to be AGAPE love. Using the example Paul gave, a man must be able to sacrifice his life for his wife.

As Deep Sight already mentioned, this does not mean that the husband should not submit or the wife should not love - There are overarching Christian teachings that says EVERY Christian should also submit to and love one another, but these passages are much more than that -

What these passages are saying that A wife's MAIN responsibility to her Husband is to Submit, and the Husbands MAIN responsibility to his wife is to Love her. The reason is - and you may find this contentious, Submitting to your Husband is a bigger guarantee of marital success than Loving him. Reason is (1) A Husband needs his wife's submission more than her love, as it is the submission that enables him to be the head of his wife and the home - as is laid down in the Bible - And if you ask most married men, they would choose Submission. (2) You cannot love him anymore than you were already commanded to do before you became his wife - Love your neighbour as yourself (Remember, this is the same thing the writer in Ephesians tells Husbands - to love his wife as he loves himself)

Also, a Wife needs her Husbands Love much more than his submission. God already knew that - because he created women that way. This why the passages are written unambiguously, with examples to boot. A Husband loving his wife unconditionally is a bigger guarantee of marital success, than any submission he has to offer. Women blossom and excel when loved. I know no woman who would choose for her Husband's submission over Love.

Marriage is a partnership. But all partnerships have differing responsibilities and roles in order for the partnership to succeed. This means there is no equality - simply because we have different jobs to do to make the partnership work. This does not make me more important than you, or vice versa.  My job may be harder than yours, or yours harder than mine. Largely, this is inconsequential,  as it is simply a matter of changing opinion. What is important is the success of the partnership. Also, as in any partnership, if one partner is unable to execute his/her responsibility/role, it is the other partners duty to help - this is necessary in order for the partnership to progress

As a footnote to this, i was in a marriage counselling class about 7yrs ago. When asked what men most wanted from their wives, almost to a man, they said they wanted their wives to submit more to them, and believe and trust in their decisions.

are supposed to do but if you are a Christian, there are principles and teachings already laid down as to how it should be progressed. There is no point in arguing about it

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Deep Sight,

Thanks so much.

i understand better now,

may your source of inspiration never ran dry.(Amen)

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Looking at the scripture you posted again -

It says -

1. The man should love

2. The woman should submit

Does this mean that the woman is not also required to love? Of course not.

Thus we can see that it does not mean that the man is not also required to submit: he is!

Both should love and submit to each other.

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^^^ Methinks in the modern world, marriage is a partnership.

Both should love each other.

Submission? What does submission mean? A man may sometimes submit to his wife's wishes.

I think that submission in a strictly social context should only refer to the recognition of the head of the home - in most societies this is the man.

Recognition, however, should not mean slavery - it may indicate that the man is the first among equals - that he leads the family at home and before the world. Some deference may be in order: but i cannot see that it is any different from the deference that a man should also accord to his wife.

These would not be a problem for a couple who love and understand each other.

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