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My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?.

My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?, (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34).

Isn't this an indication that Jesus expected God to save him? If yes,this will mean he is unaware of his crucifixtion. If No then he must have lost faith, indicating the devil triumphed.

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157 answers

Yummy no response to my post huh

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^^^^ he could have ask them to leave the premises with respectful manner instead of displaying the Animal in him, i seek forgiveness from Allah

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Now you have no answer na insult exactly what am talking about

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@yummyUK well am sorry for the late reply i have been busy lately but am glad my brother sweetnecta answer you post already but i'll respond to some

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^^^^^^^ seyi o. maybe what you need to factor in is the reality of human nature. ex(s) tend[s] to get attached to each other. the old adage applies; the person you are used to is easier to deal with than a new experience which you have no idea what you gonna get. Islam says in essence a man who is dumb enough to divorce his wife for the 3rd time, deserves not to be able to have her like that again, even if he wants her so desperately. let her try her fortune with someone else instead of the carelessness of the revolving door predicament in the previous marriage[s] bringing her to divorcee status 3 times already.

what you do not pay attention to in the OT that you are putting up as the grand marquee of "ideal" of marriage at all cost or if there is a divorce no chance of reconciliation is contrary to human nature where people long for the spouse known and want each other back, because the heart rules, overcoming the ego that led to the divorce in the first place. Islam allows the fool me once to extend to fool me thrice.

finally, dont forget that we say that the OT is corrupt, just as NT is. while Jesus of NT laid out a different law than the OT, the reality is that it is human to give each other another chance on top of another, reconciling and getting back together mending the marriage, rather than saying after first divorce, never to get back together or not to divorce at all. the reality, again is what you find to be in human nature; to err is human, the reason Islam allows the possibility of return, after another. after the grandiose of OT, we see in it that a woman who is married and lost her husband is passed on to a brother of the deceased, whether she wants it or not. she may have to wait until a little boy is old enough to mount her. she is at the mercy of a ruling that completely dehumanized her, and opposes the ruling of after divorce you are not to comeback together. Just imagine the humiliation of being stuck with men in a family that a widow will have to wait for the brother, even when he is already married and you said Eve was the only woman in the life of Adam, yet Jesus said all the OT must be fulfilled, without dropping a jot from it! who is not being sincere here?

the thing i like that seyi said is that no one can make anything except using what God provides. This is a Quranic verse in Surah Ghafir which says "Allahu qalaqa kun, Allahu ta ma lun": Allah is your Maker and He is the Maker of what you make. Seyi is on her to Islam. May Allah make her journey easy. Amin.

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As much as i disagree with the tactics of the palestinians, their frustration is the only reason they have resorted into such terrible process to seek redress and or justice in their own views. But they need to know that the end does not justify the means and Islam is to elevate our character, and they need to refer to Islam, in everything they do. Get the correct meaning of the verses, and not dubious meanings allowing you to do evil. Allah warns that one should not be unjust because one dislikes a person/people.

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QTNs 1 WS IT D HEBREW OR ARABIC BIBLE Muhammed read. 2 we need prf of  events u clmd hapd in medina nt all ds history.

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i dey laf! ur claim ws b4 d advent of islam histry tld u dt Muhammad read d bble, i said pt d refrence.shw us proof.

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History told us that Mohammed when engaging with Christians in Medina would tell them to "look into their book for answers" Why? OK let me put it another way; Mohammed had access to the bible and referred generously to it in the KORAN. From where did he get knowledge about the  people in the bible? Jesus in human form was an illiterate, but quoted from the scriptures, didn't he?

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Numbers 20 told us how Moses struck the rock in disobedience to God at Kadesh making him a sinner

2 Samuel 11 also confirms David sin. Abraham was not perfect either by bowing to the will of Sarah and marrying a slave. Araon too bowed down to the pressure of the Israel by allowing them to make a golden calf - the list goes on

So can I throw this question to you, Did Jesus Christ sin? what about Mohammed?

Please get your brain working Alhaji.

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John 10:30

"The Father and I are one"

The father and the son are two separate person with one purpose and nature. This is the basis of Jesus Christ power to protect God's flock. It is also a stunning expression of Jesus divinity.

John 14:6-7

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

I hope u understand the above. Christ the full embodiment of God. Jesus Christ is God->in->the->flesh

This explains Jesus Christ capacity to accomplish divine works. Jesus did not simply teach about God. In him God can be found.

However we know that this claim is at the root of the world's opposition to Christ.

John 5:16-18

16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

I have to agree that Jesus Christ claims are astonishing, yet true faith recognises Jesus Christ union with God the father by the power of the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.

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Hmmm yummyuk your brain has stopped function again right? how many wife did Muhammad married? well i guess its about 13, so can you tell me how many wife David,Solomon, Moses,Abraham etc have?

and also of Melchizedek that has no father nor mother that has no birth record nor death record?

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Nice said bro i have stop commenting on this thread but like your response

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[Quote]Did Mohammed on the other hand practice sexual immorality? YES, HE DID, and this is backed by Islamic scriptures that tell of his many sexual partners, forced and willing![/Quote]If Seyibrown did feel that she lied in many things, in above post, she can make herself happy as she wishes. She has the right. However, I cant stomach this lie of her in the quote.

Not being married may be regarded as irresponsibility. Marrying more than 1 wife for a man cant be considered as immoral, since Abraham who the Jews, Christians and Muslims all clamor on, calling him their father in faith. Are you kidding me, Seyibrown?

And remarrying is not a bad idea, either for either man or woman, especially if they still have sexual desire, after marriage to former spouses. How a people act, if different from the book that the profess to be their religious guide, we call them hypocrites. Even a bad religion will still have hypocrites in it, so is the good religion.

A wife and her husband are allowed to marry each other 3 times before the woman must be forbidden to the man, not being able to remarry her as he did in the previous 2 remarriages. There is wisdom in it and in marriage processes. You are a married woman, you should know how in time the hearts are attached, and divorce becomes a very bitter pill, though it rather be taken instead of fatal attraction.

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@Yommyuk: #199 on: Yesterday at 09:13:23 PM »

[Quote[b]]The bottom line is that ignorant muslims choose to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ[/b]. The origin of this standpoint comes from Ishmael , the first son of Abraham, of whom most Arabs share their ancestoral heritage. A product of a union that was not according to God's will but was later accepted by the merciful God. A reason why polygamy can be a very dangerous terrain.

Before Islam, History told us that Mohammed read the bible. We also know that culture and tradition can sometimes cloud ones reasoning and perception. An Arab reading a Jewish holy book probably under no guidiance in the 6th century! A disaster waiting to happen Embarrassed Can be compared to a pharisees reading the Mosaic Law. It is a cause of concern.

But Xtains by faith accept the bible as the Word of God which has been proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.

John 1:1-5

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The gospel of John introduces us to Jesus Christ, thru whom God created everything. "The Word" (Logos).

This Logos became flesh and lived among us as a human.

Humans(me and u) came via mum and dad getting it on with each other via spermatozoa and God breath life into the spermatozoa and (me and u) were created

In the case of Jesus, no man was involved. No spermatozoa. It was Mary and God. God breath life into Mary and Christ came into existence. So tell me who is the father of Christ. In my book, JEHOVAH ALMIGHTY, without a doubt Cool[quote][/Quote]To the bold, especially when he is a servant sent and has no power of his own! The muslims should be ashamed of themselves for not making such a person Lord God over them. This yommyuk man is very smart.

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YummyUK why did you abandon my Question well not new this are your ways including seyi

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@Yommyuk: « #213 on: December 31, 2010, 10:13 AM »

[Quote]Quote

woww yummy are you trying to say Moses,David,Solomon,Abraham, Aaron,Lot etc are also sinner

Numbers 20 told us how Moses struck the rock in disobedience to God at Kadesh making him a sinner

2 Samuel 11 also confirms David sin. Abraham was not perfect either by bowing to the will of Sarah and marrying a slave. Araon too bowed down to the pressure of the Israel by allowing them to make a golden calf - the list goes on

So can I throw this question to you, Did Jesus Christ sin? what about Mohammed?

Please get your brain working Alhaji[/Quote]If Moses sinned by the mere striking of the rocks, then Jesus must have sinned many times, at least his ". . . . . why has Thou forsaken me?" cry is obvious a "blame" that he was heaping on his Eloi.

I was going to ask you to show me why no Christian or Jew said to Muhammad (AS) as a challenge throughout his life, since you thought he copied their books, while he condemned them for what they do wrong "christians with their trinity and jews with their taking their scholars as patrons" and their refusal to enter Islam, with the fact that no religion will be acceptable except Islam on the Day of Judgment? Are you for real, man? The burden of proof is upon the accuser. So tender your proof, except you have none forgetting that the Lord God revealed Quran to Muhammad (AS), Torah to Musa (AS), Sabur to Daud (AS) and Injil to Isa bin Maryam (AS). The three before the Quran which claims that they have been compromised; corrupt.

Tell me how a Book like that will quote from what it says is corrupt, already? When he said it, no Jew or Christian challenged him except that they wanted him dead, fighting him, planning against him all through his Prophetic life, cooperating with Makkans, even. You yommyuk is a man who should be seriously be ashamed for your accusatory lie. SHow me a Bible that is not corrupt, and I personally will mention 2 that are corrupt, sending their readers in confronting you. The fact is that all of them are corrupt, since nothing remained from Jesus of Nt (by the way from acts of apostles onward to revelations are additions after Jesus; sign of corruption). Nothing remained of 100% of Ot in time of Jesus, the reason he railed on the Jewish scholars so much.

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as for you YummyUK you dont have anything to say i have put so many question to you but you just ignoring them your nothin but a piece of crap

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This is one thing that muslims need to get into their "THICK SKULL"

Mark 7:20-23

20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Get that?

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@Seyi maybe you are misquoting what some Muslim on here are saying who tell you we dont believe in Maryam the Mother of isa (AS) he has a Surat in the Holy Quran for you to know how Honor she is but don't but what we dont accept and will never accept is that Jesus is the son of God,  if you say that one million times my answer will stil remain my own God never have a son and no one given birth to him because God one to show how ppowerful he is does not make him a father cmon girl if Jesus is the son of God and was given birth to by Maryam a woman like my mother then what about Melkizedek that could not be trace to anyone,  remember in your bible you can trace Jesus Ancestors but can you trace any to  Melkizedek? so who is to be called the son of God here.

Luke 3:23–38

Matthew 1:1–17

i believe those will help you to trace the generation of Jesus

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Do you believe that Mary was a virgin or not? Is Quran the words of Allah? Do you doubt Allah? Do true Muslims doubt Allah? If you are saying you are not sure whether Mary was a virgin, then you are indirectly saying that Allah was maybe lying about it, given that the Quran is the word of Allah according to Muslims.

Now the matter at hand here is Jesus being the Son of God. Explain how Mary got pregnant to me, given that Allah records her as saying she was a virgin and Allah did not say she was otherwise. We will then move on to Melkizedek. I will touch on why a woman who has all that you mentioned above can give birth to the Son of God.

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@Seyi can you pls exlain your view about Melchizedek first and tell me if someone is to be called son of God or even God who among Jesus who was given birth to by one woman that have Puss.y and 2 bosom, and have 2 arms,2 legs, mouth, teeth, that can talk and do all what my mother is doing and someone who has no father no mother who have no record of birth or death tell me with your own simple view and mind you Mary is also a woman and a mother like your own mother, and beside she said she was a virgin who know truly if she was or not but i believe in what i read but i did not Believe God as son if he does then he is the same as my father

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Bashy, you are the first NL Muslim to admit the above bolded, as found in your Quran. Can you please tell me how Mary got pregnant, now that we both agree that Mary was a virgin and no human male was involved in the conception of Jesus Christ. How did that pregnancy come to be? Did Allah have anything to do with it? Please explain your view.

Thanks.

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@Seyi well we know Mary was a virgin and conceive Jesus pregnancy accepted but that does not make him a son of God or God think with you head girl how about this any human but from the womb of a woman is a sinner if Jesus is the son of God cos his Mother was a virgin how about Melchizedek the man that has no father,mother no birth date and no death date and some believe he is still somewhere in the world today tell me what are we going to call him?

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@Yommyuk: « #184 on: Today at 12:57:41 PM »

[Quote]

i got it;

What you got is a lie.

1 John 2:22

"And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.[/QUote]In the Quran, it is said that Massiah Isa bin Maryam; The christ, Jesus son of Mary.

[QUote] ANYONE(you) who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.[/Quote]Allah asks "how can God have a son when He has no wife?" Jesus himself said in the Bible that his God has a Name: Elaw. Jesus also said he was a servant sent.

[Quote]Quote

you do not get it.

LIAR, It is you that don't get it. Your lies are from the pit of Hell.

1 John 2:23

Anyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. (So if you think you can hide behind Allah, u better beware), BUT ANYONE(Me) who acknowledges the SON has the FATHER also. Cheesy[/Quote]a person says he is a servant but you insist on calling him son. a person says he is powerless, but you proclaim him most powerful. if the usage of son in the bible is sign of blood ties with God, and not just that a person is merely a believer in the true faith from God, then King David is declared as the first born son and a begotten son of God. But we know he was sired by a man. God never declared Jesus as his first born son and a begotten son. Imagine the number of sons and children of God in the bible! I will ignore your pit of hell statement. i didnt respond to the liar statement. I let your Bible respond to you.

[Quote]Quote

the another comforter (AS) who heard from God and repeated in the same manner that Jesus heard from God, in his time.

Another LIE that needs to be sent to the LAKE OF FIRE Angry

John 14:16

And I will ask the Father and he will give you another "ADVOCATE"(Comforter) who will never leave you. He is the HOLY SPIRIT, who leads to all truth."[/Quote]Read the test of knowing a true prophet apart from the false prophets. In the process, it is indicated that the true prophet is a spirit of God, to mean what guides the true prophet is always from God, including the saying and the actions of the true prophet. Yommyuk, is the Holy Spirit a prophet? Tell me a single prophesy or any revelation? Whats the book of that Holy Spirit called? I know the Book of jesus is called Gospel, though what you have now is contaminated.

[Quote]Where does Mohammed come into the equation. Is Mohammed the Holy Spirit? Grin Grin Grin LIAR. God forbid.

WAKE UP BRO from your slumber Shocked[/Quote]Yommyuk, maa fi oje ton ara e. What did the holy spirit hear and told the disciples? Just one thing that the holy spirit heard from God and he opened his mouth and the disciples heard him tell them with their ears. I think you put the disciples and jesus down when you say that jesus had 12 followers who were so bad that they had to be corrected, reminded, led to all things etc in such a short span of time between jesus ascension and the day of pentecost. it insulted the sensibilities of straight thinking people.

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@yummyuk you dont have anything to say to my post up there huh? if Jesus is the son of God and Mary meaning Mary is the wife of God what about Melchizedek that has no father,mother,brother,sister no ancestries

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@Yommyuk; [Quote]1 John 2:24-25

24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

Do you get the above?[/Quote]i got it; you donot get it. it is meant for those who were there to hear him. it must be those people there with from the beginning. not johnny come lately. not those who didnt hear it, like you and I. and according to the arguments of the christians, no everything he said was recorded. so we do not know all the truth. at best we know some truth. so you and i will be wrong to follow him and reject the another comforter (AS) who heard from God and repeated in the same manner that Jesus heard from God, in his time.

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it s titled "the conversion of pastor Jonathan into Muslim".

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^^^^^^Jay595 needs to get his head out of the sand sometimes. I know many people who left christianity and became Muslims. A whole family did; Seyi Williams brought Islam to the family, especially a father that had no Islam in his root of recent memory. Just wait how Allah will change eastern nigeria; the nnewi people will fall over one another into Islam, abandoning Catholicism and all form of christianity.

Yommyuk, you need to look for a saul paul somewhere else. InshaAllah, the possibility of you becoming Muslim, is not far fetched.

There is a thread that is titled "the conversion of Saeed". Go enjoy it.

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Its so 1daful to c dat muslims no longer concentrate on their own religion rather they concentrate on Christianity. They believe in the bible but just don't understand it. Well, try reading the bible a little bit more and u'll find out dat Christians r meant 2 suffer persecution. Greater than u guyz hv tried and greater dan u will still try. U feel so threatened by Christianity dat u come up with d most absurd threads 'Jesus was a muslim'. U guyz try and sort your selves out first; at times u don't believe in Jesus at all then later, u say He was a muslim.

Its so funny how I hv neva heard stories of Christians turning to muslims but almost every month theres at least 3 muslims dat turn 2 Christians. All u can do is use 4ce and kill non muslims.

Well, believe wat u may, but Jesus is the only true Son of God and the Saviour of the world; its ur choice if u wanna be saved.

As 4 me and my household Jesus is the only way 2 d Father.

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I will wait with vedaxcool to read that verse of the Quran that says women are OMEN, never mind what time of omen. Thats another subject altogether.

Seyi, please dont keep us waiting until next week. do it now.

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@Jay595:^^^^^^ The tone of the above tell us that Jesus is not the speaker. Isnt the Gospel all from Jesus?

And through it all, there is a Hellfire already created. Some people will enter it. Some who called somebody God, or son of God, or even themselves God(s) or deny the existence of God altogether.

If a person with the first 2 ideas enter hell, the quality of the God or son of God that walked Middle east is chalked up to be a lie. We already read from the Bible that Jesus will tell a good size of the christians that he does not know them.

What is the purpose of God being human then? What is the purpose of God having a son then?

Is God Almighty not Enough as Absolute, Alone?

When Jesus said people are vipers, adulterous generations, people of little faith, even calling Peter "satan", none of these is a condemnation? You need a good english teacher jay. Finally, was Moses Jesus? I remember reading that pharaoh perished because he didnt believe Moses early enough. Was Noah Jesus? I remember reading that those who perished in flood didnt believe Noah. Was Lot Jesus? I remember the sodom and gomohrra people perished because they didnt believe Lot. You see that Jesus was not unique in any sense and who was the wife that bore him as the son?

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17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Do u need an English teacher to help u out?

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@Seyibrown: « #165 on: Yesterday at 03:40:55 PM »

[Quote]Quote from: DevotedOne on Yesterday at 03:32:28 PM

I do not (as stated earlier) play with The Bounteous Qur'an.

This thread is off topic!

It's okay, Devoted One. I understand the reason Islam does not want the Quran to be examined and why it would persecute and even kill those who tell it for what it really is. It wants people to accept it without confirming if it is indeed the word of God.[/Quote]I am sure you are are drinking for christmas is not until the weekend? Where did you read that Quran is not not to be examined when Allah says in it that "Havent you examined this Glorious Quran that if has not came from the Creator, you would have found discrepancies (discrepancy) in it? Now tell me how the two verses of the Bible below "Your servant Jesus who You sent" and "the Lord of Isreal and my Lord is One God", will make Jesus a God or son of God, being both your claim? Thats my casual examination of your Bible now. The Quran is never in the the hand of the elites, alone. It was never in the possession of the Prophet (AS), alone, but all muslims are encouraged to learn it and understand it and become a scholar of it.

[Quote]If you do not want us to EXAMINE what YOU tell us Islam is, Hold YOUR peace![/Quote]Even there are scholars of Quran among the orientalists, so I dont know what you are talking about. Care to explain how Islam does not want anyone to examine The Quran? You cant make statement without expecting someone to challenge you.

[Quote]« #166 on: Yesterday at 03:57:21 PM »

@ Alhaji sweetnecta Grin

Quote

Hebrew, if thats what you call the family of Jacob (AS) had no laws of their own. At best they must be under the ruling of their great grandfather Ibrahim, who passed down good morality down to them through his son Isiaqa, who passed it down to Yaqub the father of the tribes. Imagine if the law of kidnapping of human being under Noah was applied to the children of Jacob when they sold Joseph after seizing him away from the presence of their father, throwing him in the well, first and selling him into slavery, lying that he was gored by wild beast? Do you think they would not have been killed, except that the ruling of God is True, revealing it at the appropriate time? For people with wisdom, they will see Islam of Muhammad as the right religion, at the right time with the right process of Justice.

Quote

There was not even a mosaic law, because Moses came much later. Should there be mosaic law before Moses? It is not possible since Torah was revealed to Moses and in it Mosaic law anew for him to rule over the children of Israel. At best the law of the land where a crime is committed should have prevailed in the case of Benjamin. But everything was just; his brother was the ruler, wishing to hold him behind, part of what Allah has ordained, leading to the fullness of His Plan for the Israelites in Egypt.

Please, say the bolded above AGAIN, and MAKE SURE 'NAIRANDER Devoted One' HEARS IT FROM A FELLOW MUSLIM! Grin You must have found the above out because you EXAMINED THAT PART OF THE QURAN! Grin Advise him to EXAMINE the Quran so that he can answer non-believers when they ask him questions. Grin

@ Devoted One,

You are also very welcome to EXAMINE the verse below:

2 Timothy 2:15 (Amplified Bible)

15Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.

You might just be able to understand why it is OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE that you EXAMINE THE QURAN instead of 'CRAMMING'(memorising without understanding) IT! Grin[/Quote]And Timothy who called disbeliever of his faith "Infidel" turns to God, when it is most convenient. They often abandon Jesus, just as they abandon The Gospel for Psalm of David when they want "miracle of healing or wellness". What did Jesus say, instead of Timothy with his 2;15? Or is Timothy another god, like Jesus? I see that Yahweh always have not real place or position on any matter with the christian. Funny people.Falling for everything and standing for nothing real.

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lol ;d ;d ;d :d :d :d

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@jay595; are you drunk with ignorance?

where is t that God said oh Jesus go and carry the sin of the world, because without you, i will not forgive anyone?

show us the muslims, please.

Christians are full of it. they cant take spiritual responsibility for themselves.

i wanna see how smart you are, sir. now show me where Yahweh needs Jesus for anything? no wonder the jews dont want anything to do with you people with warped concept of Yahweh in His ability to be a just and benevolent God.

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Ohhhh my God, this thread is so off topic!

Mr poster, try and understand this;

God hates sin no matter who commits dem, He turns his back on sinners not because He hates dem but bcoz He hates sin itself. Jesus was carrying d sin of the entire world, God turned His back on Him. Jesus was simply asking His Father y He turned His back on Him. Quick question: if ur dad sends u 2 do something and dn gets angry bcoz of dat same thing wouldn't ask him y he's angry?

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It's okay, Devoted One. I understand the reason Islam does not want the Quran to be examined and why it would persecute and even kill those who tell it for what it really is. It wants people to accept it without confirming if it is indeed the word of God.

If you do not want us to EXAMINE what YOU tell us Islam is, Hold YOUR peace!

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[Center]Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim.   As salaamu 'alaikum.[/Center] 

[Quote]Have you gained more confidence that the Quran will stand when we THOROUGHLY EXAMINE ALL ITS CLAIMS? If yes, come out BOLDLY and say so AND LET US DO IT! If the Quran is TRULY the word of God, WE WILL FIND IT TO BE SO![/Quote]

I do not (as stated earlier) play with The Bounteous Qur'an.

This thread is off topic!

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Devoted One, I suggest you go back and read all over from post # 145. Hopefully you will see what the actual errors were were! If you can't see what really happened, consider this:

23But if your eye is unsound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the very light in you [your conscience] is darkened, how dense is that darkness!

and

Isaiah 5:20 (New Living Translation)

20 What sorrow for those who say

that evil is good and good is evil,

that dark is light and light is dark,

that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.

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[Center][Color=Green]Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The Only GOD, The Most Merciful, The All Merciful. As salaamu 'alaikum; The peace be upon you, everyone.[/Color][/Center]

[Quote]seyibrown (f)

Re: My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?.

« #148 on: Today at 01:21:32 AM »

DevotedOne, What is the prescribed punishment for a thief in the Book of Moses; what is prescribed in the Quran; what punishment did Mohammed command/have carried out on thieves; and what punishment does Sharia mete out on thieves?[/Quote]

I'm not about to play games with Al-Qur'an. A question was asked of the travellers, and an answer was given. I assumed that the answer was regardful of the law respected by the family of Jacob, which it was [I](I assumed that they be Hebrews)[/I]. I never suggested that amputation was of the Hebrew law. There was never any consideration given to Egyptian laws. Read carefully!   

012.074 [Color=Green](The Egyptians) said: "What then shall be the penalty of this, if ye are (proved) to have lied?"[/Color]

012.075 [Color=Green]They said: "The penalty should be that he in whose saddle-bag it is found, should be held (as bondman) to atone for the (crime). Thus it is we punish the wrong- doers!"[/Color]

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@sweetnecta, Devoted one, Vedaxcool Almighty Allah will increase your knowledge no matter what you said they will always turn deaf ear

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By the way, seyi, the law of Noah as they called it will kill a kidnapper (human theft), because he stole a human being.

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@Seyibrown: ^^^^^ It seems as if Seyibrown is stating that the people given laws from God first was Moses, rather the children of Israel especially when they were under the bondage of Egypt?

My sister, that is incorrect for laws relevant to the time and place and community started from the moment Allah said to Adam and his mate what He said of the laws; Dont come close to this Tree, otherwise you will be one of those who have wronged.

In time the law of not to kill unjustly was passed and Cain was guilty of it.

In time after many generations, until Noah we see that people perished because they did not Obey Allah. They did not follow the guidance that Noah was showing them. What was the specific content of that guidance? Could you say there was no punishment for stealing except repayment, until islam? yet in the time of Lut, illlegal entry of the wrong opening in sex wiped off a people, including the wife of Prophet Lut (AS).

Which crime there is a victim; the crime of homosexuality or the crime of stealing? If yahweh of the bible killed the homosexuals where al the criminals consented with each other or one another, what do think is adequate punishment of the man or woman who stole the property of the individual who is deprived its usage, when he is found in the time of Prophet Lut? I remember that Abraham for breaking the idols he was thrown in the fire. What do you think would have happened to a thief in that hard society, with a tyrannical king on the throne.

Lets fast forward to Joseph as the minister of the treasury in Egypt. In his brother's luggage they found his cup in Benjamin's. Read your Bible and tell us what was supposed to be the result? he was going to be dealth with very harshly. Lets move forward even to Moses time in Goshen of Egypt. Imagine if the from the children of Israel a thief was caught, stealing from the Egyptian masters? Tell us his faith.

Islam gave mercy. while a spinster would die for illegal sex, Islam gave only whipping.

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[Center][Color=Green]Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The Only GOD, The Most Merciful, The All Merciful. As salaamu 'alaikum; The peace be upon you, everyone.[/Color][/Center]

6.68 [Color=Green]When thou seest men engaged in vain discourse about Our signs, turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme. If Satan ever makes thee forget, then after recollection, sit not thou in the company of those who do wrong.[/Color]

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Sorry, I NOWHERE said the Law predated Moses. I asked you for the Moses' punishment for thieves that and YOU CLAIMED the same was applied in Al- Qur'aan: 12:74-77, 81 which is simply INCORRECT on investigation.  Your earlier post leads one to conclude that you are saying that Mosaic Law was IN USE BEFORE MOSES WAS BORN and THAT THIEVES HANDS WERE BEING CUT ACCORDING TO THAT LAW but on investigation it is your claim is incorrect! There is no record of any HEBREW LAW BEING USED BY THE EGYPTIANS before Moses was born that requires the amputation of thieves, and the gospel of Barnabas as quoted by you does not refer to Hebrew Law. It states that anything that CONFORMS to Moses Law is what you should take as the truth.

Moses' Law requires thieves to pay back 5 times but Islamic Law says to amputate thieves. The Quran claims to 'clarify and CONFIRM' the Torah and the Gospel. Is AMPUTATION a 'clarification and confirmation' of RESTORATION? The Quran clearly DOES NOT CLARIFY OR CONFIRM THE LAW OF MOSES OR THE GOSPEL! I am sorry but the Quran LIES about ITSELF in that respect! I can confidently say that it has no credibility of its own and only seeks validation using that which is credible! It is a SHAM that is NOT RELATED to MOSES or the 'SENDER OF MOSES' at all! THE WORD OF GOD DOES NOT MISLEAD HIS CHILDREN! Please prove me wrong by CLARIFYING any misconceptions you think I have on this matter!

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If Abraham, your forefather, is the FRIEND of GOD, how can you be God's slave? Are you the SLAVE of your FATHER'S FRIENDS? Are YOUR CHILDREN the SLAVES of YOUR FRIENDS?

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[Center]Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim   In The Name of Allah, The Very Merciful, The All Merciful.  As salaamu 'alaikum, The peace be upon you, (everyone).[/Center]

Well, you are saying that the law predated Prophet Musa [Moses, PBUH] which it did. I guess I should have said Hebrews instead of Jews, who I would suppose came later.

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Exodus 22:1-4 (Amplified Bible)

Exodus 22

1IF A man steals an ox or sheep and kills or sells it, he shall pay five oxen for an ox, or four sheep for a sheep.

    2If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no blood shed for him.

    3But if the sun has risen [so he can be seen], blood must be shed for slaying him. The thief [if he lives] must make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

    4If the beast which he stole is found in his possession alive, whether it is ox or backside or sheep, he shall restore double.

When I checked Al- Qur'aan: 12:74-77, 81, on quran.com (Sahih Intl Version), it says nothing about the Jewish Law's punishment for a thief. Moses hadn't been born at that time so there  was no MOSAIC LAW, and the Egyptians certainly DID NOT live under any JEWISH LAW under which they could have punished Benjamin. Please give the correct Quranic verse if you stated it wrong.

For starters, How does amputation for theft in Islam 'clarify and confirm' restoration as stated in Moses' Law?

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Revelation 13:10 (Amplified Bible)

Whoever leads into captivity will himself go into captivity; if anyone slays with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Herein is [the call for] the patience and the faith and fidelity of the saints (God's people).

See also ISAIAH 41: 8 -13; JOSHUA 1: 9

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Bismillaah.   Salaam/Peace.

Chapter 154 [I]Comments:[/I]  Some commentators state; amputation of the [I]right hand[/I] - under Islamic law: 5:38-39. The Jewish law, regardng theft is also found in Al- Qur'aan: 12:74-77, 81. (Exodus 22:1-4 theft). For murder: 2:178; 5:32 Qur'an. Psalms 62:10, "Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart [upon them].  Muhammad S.A.A.W., would have carried out what is prescribed in The Holy Qur'an.

Gospel of Barnabas chapter 154

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DevotedOne, What is the prescribed punishment for a thief in the Book of Moses; what is prescribed in the Quran; what punishment did Mohammed command/have carried out on thieves; and what punishment does Sharia mete out on thieves?

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