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Pastor Chris Says "Take It" And People Fall. Do You Believe It?

Was watching some program,  where Pastor Chris walks towards a set of people and says take it and they all fall to the ground. It sounds real funny to me though but its that a good way to show God's power?. Does the Holy Spirit display power like P.Chris does it? Pls explain to me.

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212 answers

^^ and why are you resurrecting a 2 year old thread, just to call someone a fool? Did you see him in your dream last night?

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@ Manosteel, he is the end time ANTICHRIST servant, and you gave him the right answer, Nobody should waste his/her time with him,

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For the motive behind your post, nobody is ready to waste his time to answer you. Otherwise, it is one of the simplest questions ever asked by an unbeliever which has simple answers.

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Yes. . . .indeed.

If you sow unbelief in Allah, you shall reap punishment too, no?

No be today. . .

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@ Tudor, nobody is threatening you, its a free world do what you like. According to the LAW OF KARMA which is the ultimate law in the world; WHAT EVER YOU SOW, YOU MUST DEFINATELY REAP,

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Every god out there from Allah to amadioha, to Ifa, to zeus etc all threaten unbelievers. . . . So whats new here??

Same old bullshiit.

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When someone tells me they want ‘proof’ or ‘evidence’, not the Bible, my response is as follows:

‘You might not believe the Bible but I do. And I believe it gives me the right basis to understand this universe and correctly interpret the facts around me. I’m going to give you some examples of how building my thinking on the Bible explains the world and is not contradicted by science. For instance, the Bible states that God made distinct kinds of animals and plants. Let me show you what happens when I build my thinking on this presupposition. I will illustrate how processes such as natural selection, genetic drift, etc. can be explained and interpreted. You will see how the science of genetics makes sense based upon the Bible.’

One can of course do this with numerous scientific examples, showing how the issue of sin and judgment, for example, is relevant to geology and fossil evidence. And how the Fall of man, with the subsequent Curse on creation, makes sense of the evidence of harmful mutations, violence, and death.

Once I’ve explained some of this in detail, I then continue:

‘Now let me ask you to defend your position concerning these matters. Please show me how your way of thinking, based on your beliefs, makes sense of the same evidence.

In arguing this way, a Christian is:

1. Using biblical presuppositions to build a way of thinking to interpret the evidence.

2. Showing that the Bible and science go hand in hand.

3. Challenging the presuppositions of the other person (many are unaware they have these).

Forcing the debater to logically defend his position consistent with science and his own presuppositions (many will find that they cannot do this).

4. Honouring the Word of God that convicts the soul.

Those of you like Harakiri and Tudor arguing against creation may not even be conscious of their most basic presupposition, one which excludes God a priori, namely naturalism/materialism (everything came from matter, there is no supernatural, no prior creative intelligence).2 The following two real-life examples highlight some problems with that assumption:

1. A young man approached me at a seminar and stated, ‘Well, I still believe in the big bang, and that we arrived here by chance random processes. I don’t believe in God.’ I answered him, ‘Well, then obviously your brain, and your thought processes, are also the product of randomness. So you don’t know whether it evolved the right way, or even what right would mean in that context. Young man, you don’t know if you’re making correct statements or even whether you’re asking me the right questions.’

The young man looked at me and blurted out, ‘What was that book you recommended?’ He finally realized that his belief undercut its own foundations—such ‘reasoning’ destroys the very basis for reason.

2. On another occasion, a man came to me after a seminar and said, ‘Actually, I’m an atheist. Because I don’t believe in God, I don’t believe in absolutes, so I recognize that I can’t even be sure of reality.’ I responded, ‘Then how do you know you’re really here making this statement?’ ‘Good point,’ he replied. ‘What point?’ I asked. The man looked at me, smiled, and said, ‘Maybe I should go home.’ I stated, ‘Maybe it won’t be there.’ ‘Good point,’ the man said. ‘What point?’ I replied.

This man certainly got the message. If there is no God, ultimately, philosophically, how can one talk about reality? How can one even rationally believe that there is such a thing as truth, let alone decide what it is?

So Haraki and Tudor, you guys better do a re-think, and let God into your life again,

Salvation is personal and its in ur hands, dnt look for evidences to prove nothing while the facts are everywhere,

Have a blessed day.

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Christians and non-Christians all have the same evidence—the same facts. Think about it: we all have the same earth, the same fossil layers, the same animals and plants, the same stars—the facts are all the same.

The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts. And why do we interpret facts differently? Because we start with different presuppositions. These are things that are assumed to be true, without being able to prove them. These then become the basis for other conclusions. All reasoning is based on presuppositions (also called axioms). This becomes especially relevant when dealing with past events.

We all exist in the present—and the facts all exist in the present. When one is trying to understand how the evidence came about (Where did the animals come from? How did the fossil layers form? etc.), what we are actually trying to do is to connect the past to the present.

However, if we weren’t there in the past to observe events, how can we know what happened so we can explain the present? It would be great to have a time machine so we could know for sure about past events.

On the basis of these events (Creation, Fall, Flood, Babel, etc.), we have a set of presuppositions to build a way of thinking which enables us to interpret the evidence of the present.

Thus, when Christians and non-Christians argue about the evidence, in reality they are arguing about their interpretations based on their presuppositions. That’s why the argument often turns into something like:

‘Can’t you see what I’m talking about?’

‘No, I can’t. Don’t you see how wrong you are?’

‘No, I’m not wrong. It’s obvious that I’m right.’

‘No, it’s not obvious.’ And so on.

These two people are arguing about the same evidence, but they are looking at the evidence through different glasses.

It’s not until these two people recognize the argument is really about the presuppositions they have to start with, that they will begin to deal with the foundational reasons for their different beliefs. A person will not interpret the evidence differently until they put on a different set of glasses—which means to change one’s presuppositions.

I’ve found that a Christian who understands these things can actually put on the evolutionist’s glasses (without accepting the presuppositions as true) and understand how they look at evidence. However, for a number of reasons, including spiritual ones, a non-Christian usually can’t put on the Christian’s glasses—unless they recognize the presuppositional nature of the battle and are thus beginning to question their own presuppositions.

It is of course sometimes possible that just by presenting ‘evidence’, you can convince a person that a particular scientific argument for creation makes sense ‘on the facts’. But usually, if that person then hears a different interpretation of the same evidence that seems better than yours, that person will swing away from your argument, thinking they have found ‘stronger facts’.

However, if you had helped the person to understand this issue of presuppositions, then they will be better able to recognize this for what it is—a different interpretation based on differing presuppositions—i.e. starting beliefs.

When I was a teacher, I found that whenever I taught the students what I thought were the ‘facts’ for creation, then their other teacher would just re-interpret the facts. The students would then come back to me saying, ‘Well sir, you need to try again.’

However, when I learned to teach my students how we interpret facts, and how interpretations are based on our presuppositions, then when the other teacher tried to reinterpret the facts, the students would challenge the teacher’s basic assumptions. Then it wasn’t the students who came back to me, but the other teacher! This teacher was upset with me because the students wouldn’t accept her interpretation of the evidence and challenged the very basis of her thinking.

What was happening was that I had learned to teach the students how to think rather than just what to think. What a difference that made to my class! I have been overjoyed to find, sometimes decades later, some of those students telling me how they became active, solid Christians as a result.

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, AND TO ALL YOU FELLOW BELIEVING CHRISTIANS OUT THERE, DON'T WASTE UR PRECIOUS GOD-GIVEN TIME WITH THESE ATHEISTS (HARAKIRI AND TUDOR) , YOU MUSTN'T ALLOW THEM TO USE THE DEVIL TO CONFUSE YOU, EVEN THE DEVIL KNOWS THE BIBLE MORE, GO AHEAD WITH YOUR FAITH AND AT THE END OF TIME, THE SHAFT SHALL BE SEPARATED FROM THE WHEAT,

THEY'RE USING SCIENCE AND THEIR UNBELIEF TO DECEIVE YOU ALL, FORGETTING THAT THERE'S IS BUT ONE, WHO CREATED SCIENCE, THEY FORGET HOW THEY CAME TO EXISTENCE, I WONDER IF GOD DID NOT BRING THEM TO THIS WORLD, IF THEY WOULD HAVE THE MOUTH TO SAY ALL THESE BLASPHEMY THEY ARE SAYING,

EVEN LOOK AT THE PROFILE PIC OF HARAKIRI, A PURE SIGN OF THE DRAGON, (ANTI-CHRIST), , MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON UR LOST SOULS,

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@Harakiri and Tudor,

You guys are something else, you need proof concerning the bible and God? I'm sorry for your lost souls, Plus you and tudor, minus you, God is still God. Take it or leave it.

The end is really near like the bible say in 1Timothy 4:1-2; Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Whether you Harakiri or you Tudor belive it or not, it doesnt change who GOD is, he is still God. You guys should be wondering how you were formed from your mothers womb, no science or watever has proved that, Its only God that knows, So if u dnt believe, and ur waiting for any proof, i pray you wont wake up to see urself in hell one day and say like the rich young fool, HAD I KNOW,

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People, that is the power of the Holy ghost.

If you think it is man-made. I dare you to try and fake it.

I mean fall backwards with no one behind you. . . neither mattress nor foam.

Then you will understand. And dont forget to come tell us your findings (that's if you live to do so)

Confused people. With one side of their mouths they say it is evil power, with the other side, they say it's stage-managed.

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when the power of holy spirit come upon you'll life u and fall down that signifies that u have taken it.

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If you do not understand, then forget it and forge ahead, there are more important things to worry about. He is a man of God, trouble him not.

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Quote From : anietieh

This is ridiculous, the bible CLEARLY stated that solomon hired workmen to build the temple so I wonder how this in in anyway helps your case here.

Matthew clearly states an army officer approached jesus or was matthew blind that he cannot differentiate a single army officer from elders of jews??. . . . If it was elders of jews that came why not expressly state it or is it so hard??

When people  give lie and give different accounts it aint so hard to reconcile their contradictory statements like you're ridiculously trying to do now.

There is a thread of over 100 contradictions in the bible here on nairaland. . . Why dont you go there and clear all the doubts for us.

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Quote From : anietieh

More bible apologetic nonsense. . . .

Ridiculous excuses to mask blatant contradictions in the bible. . . . .

Geez, maybe the contradictions in the quran, verdas etc are not contradictions too but differential event reporting.

Infact when Matthew said Mary magdalene was the first to arrive at jesus' tomb and saw an angel roll the tombstone in her prescence and Mark said mary met the tombstone rolled away already and they entered and saw a young man sitting inside and Luke who said it was infact  Two men sitting inside the tomb.

what they meant to convey was Mary arrived at the tomb, then saw an angel rolling the stone,  she didnt like the style of rolling she then rolled the stone back in place  and went to wash her hands then the angel vexed at the sabotage of his handwork and rolled back the stone for the second time. Mary returned from her handwash  and saw that the stone was rolled back. She was angry and entered the tomb to see whats up, she then saw one young man sitting inside wearing white. She was shocked, but the young man told her his assistant went to was his hands at river jordan to wash away the germs from jesus' burial clothes and asked if she didnt meet the lazy assiatant on the road. The assistant promptly arrived and thus they were two men and then mary went to report to peter. . .phew!! That makes sense.

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This thread gets more interesting and seemingly more personal to more individuals.

@anietieh:

Sure you're not a Christian? No insults meant but you seem to have studied quite a lot for one who is not Christian. Very nice stuff that you put up there by the way and I'll be coming back regularly to read whatever you put up later.

God's Blessings

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@ harakiri,

I don't need you to believe in God cos i have been reading your comments all through and from the look of thing, its like you've made up ur mind concerning ur "FATE", and I dnt blame u cos every man is responsible for his own actions ."YOUR OWN SALVATION IS PERSONAL"

But one thing I would like to ask you and for you to think about is this;

1). Between when you sleep in the dead of the night and when you wake up, do u know what happens to you?

2). When you sleep, you see yourself in dreams and some of your dreams come to reality right? Have you ever asked yourself, who is that person in my dream that looks like me, and wat is he doing there?

3). Have you ever asked yourself when sleeping who is responsible for, why your body is left behind on the bed and ur other self wondering all over the earth and after wondering, comes back to ur other body in the bed and u wake up?

4). What if, the other body that leaves ur body in the bed dies in it's ventures all over the earth and doesn't come back to the body in your bed? Have you ever wondered what will happen to your body in the bed?

Whether you believe it or not, there's someone, a Spiritual Being up there that gave you that second body that makes u walk and breath and one day, that Being will require it from you and ur other body will go to were it was created from, DUST,

Have a nice day and think about it,

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I almost died from acute laughter especially when i listened to the second video (Bible contradictions).

@So called Christians

You people should try and watch the YouTube videos above (get your headphones or speakers up).If you can only look beyond your greed for blessings and fear of the unknown, you will see the outright ridiculousness of religion in general (most especially Christianity).You all claim that the Christian god is not the author of confusion but watch that video and you'll more than enough contradictions to make you feel sorry for yourselves.I won't be surprised to come back here and see dim witted sentiments of people who have watched the video and still have it in them to defend the indefensible.Like Karl Max rightfully said, Religion is the opium of the masses. . .

"Die Religion , ist das Opium des Volkes"

It blind folds you to all forms of common sense.Matter of fact, religion and reason/logic/common sense don't go hand in hand.They don't mix.Like someone rightfully said, Moslems put their shoes outside the door when they come to the mosque. . .Christians leave the brains at the door when they come to church.

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I believe in it but God knows where the power comes from, also wondering why are many people falling and the camera man beside the event is not falling, Gosh

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Yes, not once but TWICE.

This is the third time,

I asked, an unknowing man who looks at a rock carved by the elements of nature to resemble a face and concludes its by intelligent design citing proof as because it looks orderly and 'designed', will he be right??

If NO, tell us why.

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Why do you so called Christians keep disgracing yourselves like this? I have repeatedly told you all make sure you know what you are talking about before you come here to embarrass the rest of the congregation with your semi-educated bible knowledge.You are an outright embarrassment to Christians worldwide.Let's expose your a little bit shall we?I'll address your answers one by one :

(1)Please read progressively through the book of Genesis and you'll see that the other children of Adam came AFTER Abel had been killed and Cain had been drive out of Eden.You people are really forcing me to read and quote a bible i tossed away several years ago.I'll quote :

Genesis Chapt 4 : Verse 1-16

This part covers the birth and tragedy of Cain and Abel.

Genesis Chapt 4 : Verse 17;26

This part covers the rest of Adam's children THAT WERE BORN AFTER ABEL'S TRAGEDY.This was after Cain was driven out of Eden and Abel was dead.They bible didn't say that Eve had children and drove them to go and meet Cain in the land of Nod! ! !

Why do you people keep preaching against misquoting the bible BUT you people do the same thing day in day out.You misinterpret,misquote and tongue twist the bible to suit your selfish needs.

(2)And who are you to tell me not to mix spiritual issues with science? Where is that law stated even in your bible?

(3)There was no record of Noah going to look for animals? My goodness! Let me quote :

Genesis Chapt 6 : Verse 19

And of every thing living of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark,to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Now i don't know if it's my eyes deceiving me but i have read all through the book of Genesis and i am yet to see where the Christian god[b] PLANTED MALE AND FEMALE ANIMALS FOR NOAH TO GATHER.[/b]Why do you people keep embarrassing yourselves like this? You preached against misquoting the bible as if it's the most deadly sin (worse than murder/Inbreeding) and yet. . . here you all are, misquoting the bible at random.

Talking about doing research, you obviously have no idea of what you are worshiping.

Back to the topic . . .

What is the proof that the Christian god is the real deal? No bible quotations please.Just straight answers.Thanks.

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@Harakiri let me answer your questions.

1) Adam had other children apart from Cain & Abel. Eg. Seth, Enosh etc. Adam died @ the age of 930 years, so Cain must have married any woman then which was not recorded. In fact read Genesis 5 for clarification & see how silly your question is.

2) Archaeological findings.

Never mix spiritual issues with science because some of the scientific laws become obsolete immediately new ones come out.

3) As Noah built the Ark, there was no record that he went round the world looking for two species of animals to put in the Ark. This implies that he put two species of animals in his vicinity. Ask yourself why two species of animals? Why not three species? Hermaphrodites supposed to be included because they are in plants & animals. Or were they not created by God?

Tithe.

The issue of paying of tithe is important but not by force or compulsory. I have never seen a church that is forcing out tithe from the members. The fact is that whether you pay your tithe or not, God's work MUST continue. HIS kingdom MUST continue to expand.

I'm not going to judge you because i'm not God. But anytime you want to comment on sensitive issues please do your research well to avoid misleading people that want to be educated. Remain blessed.

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@Harakiri let me answer your questions.

1) Adam had other children apart from Cain & Abel. Eg. Seth, Enosh etc. Adam died @ the age of 930 years, so Cain must have married any woman then which was not recorded. In fact read Genesis 5 for clarification & see how silly your question is.

2) Archaeological findings.

Never mix spiritual issues with science because some of the scientific laws become obsolete immediately new ones come out.

3) As Noah built the Ark, there was no record that he went round the world looking for two species of animals to put in the Ark. This implies that he put two species of animals in his vicinity. Ask yourself why two species of animals? Why not three species? Hermaphrodites supposed to be included because they are in plants & animals. Or were they not created by God?

Tithe.

The issue of paying of tithe is important but not by force or compulsory. I have never seen a church that is forcing out tithe from the members. The fact is that whether you pay your tithe or not, God's work MUST continue. HIS kingdom MUST continue to expand.

I'm not going to judge you because i'm not God. But anytime you want to comment on sensitive issues please do your research well to avoid misleading people that want to be educated. Remain blessed.

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Nuclearboy

Who is the man im supporting here? Paul? . You should stop spreading what you dont understand. Dont apply scriptures out of contex. Jesus was talking to pharisees and not to pastors!

You are the one evading issues here. Why not compare your claim with the teachings of the apostles

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You provided NO Proof anywhere. . .running off when asked to defend your point then mouthing off about how you presented ''evidence'' is just not ok.

Answer the simple question I posed to you and stop dancing around.

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I dont get you mr. did u really ask me a question? Sorry, what was it?

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Congratulations for stopping to go to church and faring better because of that.But incase you ever come back to post here, ask yourself, wat if all the story u ar told in church (pls forget the bad guys who mess things up), wat if eventually its truth?

As for the arguments here, I have provided evidence that the world is an organised art and every organised art is a product of intelligent design. I am yet to see tudor (by the way whats the meaning of that word or name "tudor), harakiri and majaze prove me otherwise

I would like to believe that they have accepted my theory of intelligent design or that at least they think and accept within themselves that Someone, a supreme being actually created the world. Like harakiri said, he only wants proof that the guy behind the intelligence of the world is the Supreme being revealed from Isreal.

I would never crucify harakiri if that is the context of this argument. Why? The hindi, the shintoist, the several religions, even my old uncle in the village, all believe a different thing. So how do I prove that the Creator revealed from Isreal is actually the supreme being behind the design of this earth?

This is the point where I would tell you that I've got nothing to say. Its not more of making statements or quoting scriptures, its more of show me some proof, either a demonstration or a scientific evidence.

It is at this point I will like to behave like the father of Gideon. I would never defend my G in heaven. Let Him prove Himself to harakiri and co, who are confused about the G to believe in. And as I've said before, guys its only a matter of time. No rush. the real G behind the creation will prove Himself

I rest my case

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@ mazaje and harakiri,

you guys have said it all. I beleive there's existence of the supreme being, but I have from the onset doubted the genuity of the book called bible. I stopped going to church way back 2002, and i can say i fare better. I understand spiritual matters now better than when i was in the church. Jesus himself said, let the dead continue to bury their dead, for those who have eyes, make use of them.

Thumbs up for you guys.

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Ok let me answer and I hope im not drawing the thread back

Understand that these two subjects are sources of historical knowledge and its not wrong to have them both when looking into man's past. Just because they may seem to conflict a little here and a little there doent mean we should disapprove one over the other. We have to keep studying them. The bible and archeology are windows into the past. Understand that man grew in understanding or as we may say, from an uncivilised era of thinking to modernity; that is to say, the bible is a document whose record began at a certain time of civilisation.  if you ve read the bible properly, you'd notice that there seems to be a beginning before the beginning of the bible as Moses wrote it.

Also there are millions of places where the bible and archeology agree, on events animals that once lived on earth, etc. I believe that the two go hand in hand as historical sources, with the bible being a more credible source.

My main point her is simple: The bible never said the world is 5000 years old. It only recoreded from that time.

Well from what i have read and understood, Cain married his sister.  I have also discovered that historians of old as well as their culture played down on women, and the stems of that can be seem today in china, india some other Asian countries. Much of that time only recognised and or recorded men. and that could be the reason y sometimes there apeared to be some dark sides of the story. But you analyse it for urself, Adam lived for a long time, alot could have happened during his time.

You are not thining deeply enough. The bible never said that all species were of animals or organisams were saved. And judging from Noah's decent, the earth wasnt completely occupied rationally speaking. They werent up to 20 billion as we are today, they were concerntrated in a portion of the earth. Be rational  Speaking of feat, where did u think God was? If He were a supernatural being as was recorded, dont you think He was working too? You imagine, everthing God created was in a  tiny spot of the earth, the Eden Garden. How would you xplain of man , animals and plants from that spot? None  other than the study of the science of migration of man and beast and pollination for plants. as well as farming.

i think you condemed the bible even before you first opened it.

Bro, i think you are confused. Did Jesus not accept offerings in the new testament of the bible? Where is the line btw the new and the old testament? Do you know where it is? You think it starts from Mathew, abi? The new testament of the book is not the new testament of religion or the worship of God. The new testament began when Jesus died and rose again. That is the christian's new testament. There is a lot to say bro, u really have to read ur bible first before doing this.

Bro, I have a revelation of who God is and i will share it with you. God is love. Total Love. He loved man before He created man and he wanted man to love Him back So He had to create man with full consciousness. Of course He knew the repercussions, but between the balance of His love for man and the fact that man could love him and know him and the possibility of redemption from the evils we have today, there was hope. You cant say becos of the fear of giving birth to a gay child or a criminal, then you aint bearing children. You can find hope somewhere that it aint gonna be your own child.  i believe this is Widom, that he created man. I am thankful to be here today. I am thankful God gave us a chance, hoping we will redeem ourselves.

(6)The people who brought us Christianity also brought guns,liquor and slave trade (i don't know about you but that doesn't sound "holy-like" to me).They superimposed their religion on the black folks as a means of control.The same people who brought us their religion don't take it as serious as we do.I might be wrong but Nigeria to the best of my knowledge is the most prayerful/religious country in the world (there is hardly any street in Lagos without at least 2 churches or fellowships) and yet, with all the abundance of religion, we are the most cold hearted people to our fellow human beings! Christianity as we know it today originated from the Catholic church whose practices are chiefly unorthodox or in plain English. . .idol worship (how else can you explain worshiping a graven image of Mary, praying to saints,kissing the rings and feet of priests and the rosary. . .all of which aren't mentioned in the bible). Christians all claim to be worshiping one god. . .why then can't a Christ Embassy worshiper spend a few Sundays at Celestial Church of Christ? Why can't a C.A.C Pastor minister in Assemblies of God? Why can't Winners Chapel members worship in K&S? Or are there different gods? Are the so called Christians confused? Please explain these few questions satisfactorily and i'll hold my peace.

Bro, you need not be confused. If you say all christians  must come together and mix i'd say except three is a limit, there wont be any success in the mix. There is such a thing as doctrine and this is the foundattion of each ministry you see today. The Catholics, if you read their history wanted a unified body of christian and it only broght chaos and sufferings and death. They wanted a unification of all religions and that brought about a corruption of the truths of old. It will never work that way. The diversity of revelations that produces doctrines  for each ministry is what, I believe is making the church thrive. The Bible says, God gave to some apostles, some teachers, some the gifts of healing and diverse gifts for the edifying of the church. The diverse gifts given to each one of us, RCCG, Christ Embassy, Deeper etc can  functioning independently yet part of one body of God, the church. More like the the system of the human body. This is God's desgn. The bible talks about  diferent churches too is the time of Paul the apostles.

That the whites brought christianity to us and now we seem to be champions of it is a remarkable, enlightening and sensational  happening. Its a story i love. Its not a failure of religion or christiainity but a failure in humanity. Its human behaviour and it happens everyday in our societies. I heard of a founder of a party who decamped to PDP, aint that funny.

Before the whites came, what we called our religion was bondage to unseen forces controlling this world. What makes the difference btw the white man and the black man today is not the color of the skin? Its just something  that the normal eyes cannot explain. We have intelligent blacks, enourmouse unused resources yet the black  man is in bondage, even in his own home. Have u never wondered why? Why has Nigeria, even with so much wealth and potentials suffered like a slave for so long? I ll tell u why. Becos of the bondage our fathers subjected us to by serving evil and unseen forces of the world. These unseen demonic worship has held us for so long.  But not anymore. We now have the religion of the white. The true religion. Jesus Christ and having saturated our towns and cities this much for this while, Nigeia will be redeemed. To take her position in the world.  Somehow, by God's grace, it will be.

No quams.

Cheers!

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harakiri, mazaje and tudor,

i hav followed ds thread painstakinly in order to hav a balanced view of d matter discussed here. it is only normal that emotions have risen and ebbed over it, afterall it is religeous faith issue dt is being discussed; sentiments is normally very very high. nevadless, d facts so far established is visible to all, only if we can let common sense prevail. afterall i believe that d exercise of commonsense shld not be limited to some matters only.

i believe in one God, and nothn more.

incindentally, ds topic is an exact play of issued that have been on my mind for some time now. d pro and cons hav argued strongly, thou d cons hav presented stronger logic so far; just as it is on my heart. ds is also with d fact that some opinion like dt raised by Thomas Paine in his popular book, Age of Reasoning hav yet to b come to.

it is only true to admit dat formal education and pragmatic reasonin is not a friend of popular religeous beliefs, hypocrisy is trying to prove they truely r. judge the available facts and browse d history to verify ds.

i dont want to bore d readers with details of events taking place in my heart, and dont try to patronise me over it because u will not b welcome. i believe FAITH shld be personal experience, never imposed and, individuals hav d responsibility to find their bearings; jewish god no-jewish god.

d positions put forward by d proponents hav been weak and sterotypicallly predictable, i expected some inventiveness.

to d oppositions, it may be quite so easy to tear down d popular concepts, but what hav u got to replace it with? being able to offer more credible alternative will b d true mark of ingenuity otherwise we shall all end up miserable; both pros and cons.

my final word is dt spiritual faith remains an article dt can be fraudulent on communal terms but true, precious and pure when it is a personal discovery.

i shall discover mine with time, find urs.

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hmmm. . . .interesting topic,

In our present world, and within the context of our exceptional Nigerian situation, where there are all manner of senseless and spiritually meaningless themes of churches conferences, its is heartwarming for me to find a man after God's heart who did not make money, materialism mesmerism or the killing of perceived enemies etc, the focus of the Church's message/theme/conference. The integrity of the tags and the themes of church meetings in recent time have actually gone from bad to worse.

We now see and hear of crazy Church names or programs like ''Locust Army Church'', ''Run for your life chapel'', ''Go tell ahab that Elijah is in Town conference'', ''Suya Night-Operation roast your enemies like suya'', ''Night of Vengeance''. . . . . . through the use of Mirrors & pepper, Broom (like member & leaders of Action Congress party in a political rally), Cane, Feet washing, Blood of Sprinkling, the Life of God in the bottle, Salt licking. . . . . etc'' all in the name of dealing ruthlessly with some perceived enemies.

Most of such events depict nothing but abysmal ignorance, dangerous desperation, public display of greed driven Creed and strong determination to manipulate and ruthlessly exploit gullible people.

The concept of ''A Spirit Filled Church'' was indeed originally the vision of God, who is the Father of all Spirits, and that of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Spirit filled founder and the leader of the true Church. ''And He said to them, ''It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you shall be witness to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.''

Therefore, any Church where there is no passionate commitment to becoming and remaining filled with the Holy Spirit is out of touch and out of tune with Heaven. Such  a Church will soon become filled with some destructive scheme and the activities of some strange and contrary spirits. They might be occupied with some laudable activities, the might be claiming to be spiritually alive and materially rich, but from a divine perspective, they have fallen, they are dead, they are Unclad, poor and wretched.

@topic

Personally, i don't have anything against pastor Chris, i like him and respect / love him as a human being, but as for people who engage in these act, perverter s of the right way of Jesus Christ , they will all bear their judgement one day.

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@harakiri

I hope u get the message, try to find your own experience. Hopefully by the time u study all known and unknown being possibly u will get to have a personal experience with that supreme being u seek rather than dwelling your whole time looking for what u called contradictory statement in the bible. Best of Luck

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I would really love to take you on on all uv been saying but uv said so much. i will deal a few key things you ve said.

You are attempting to pass off your poor opinion as facts. Christ Embassy Members do not call the name of P. Chris more than their God. Listening to you for a while, its evident that the root of your disbelieve is becos you havent read this bible you call a sham. No rational judge will condemn a case without first reviewing it, its just so simple. Every movement has a leader and it is not wrong for members of any group to admire their leader. The Bible even supports this and if you have read it, even a little, you wont talk this way.

It is rational for any man to propagate what he believes, just like you are doing here. Preaching your own gospel. If uv read the bible you would knw that it encourages christians to[b] carry christianity on their head. [/b] Its not an advice, it is an instruction which most times has penalties.

The bible has made it clear about Hell and has given christians the maths on it will affect all men. Its not for christians to say who goes there or who wont but we have an instruction to tell all men.

Really dont understand this phylosophy but i will tell u this: Greed and fear and just another aspect of humanity lost in the midst of so much that constitutes life. Overcoming them has only minor gains. iv heard and seen of selfless, innoncent ppl who died gruesome deaths, and fearless ones who went down like fowls, they did not overcome death or even poverty. Your phylosophy get as e be.

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Some folks will now think this post to be sensible but it actually has no backing from the bible. You dont read your bible sir.

Im no pastor but from my humble understanding of the scriptures, i know that

1. Not all saved persons have the Holy Ghost. Acts 19:1 -6. and

2. The bible shows us that most times the Holy Ghost was received via a physical act, either the laying on of hands or breathing (blowing) on the one been ministered tp. Acts 19:1 -6

You will never understand this practice of Pastor Chris until u really study the bible. Dont hit at ppl when you really dont have facts.

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This is one of the things that puts me off on nairaland. . . when a discussion or argument is going on and one party doesn't have anything useful to contribute, the next phase is either to derail the discussion or apply sentiments.

As i have repeated myself time and time and time over and over again (please go back to page one and read not glance through), I BELIEVE THAT THIS WORLD AS WE KNOW IT WAS CREATED BY EITHER A SUPREME BEING OR SUPREME FORCES BUT THAT BEING OR BEINGS IS NOT THE JEWISH GOD! ! ! For crying out loud, what is so complicated about that sentence that is so hard to grasp? Is it the English or people are just blinded by their convictions to the extent they've blocked out all form of perception? Watch out! Someone will come and claim that this particular post i have just typed is an insult.Imagine that! If you have nothing to contribute, either read through or move to another section.

I have stated countless reasons why i do not believe in the Jewish god and as much as i am looking for answers, i can bet my life that the answers are not in the fraud called the bible which has been used to manipulate and control the minds of billions of people since time immemorial.I did not for once claim that i had the answers instead i am asking you Christians that so believe in the Jewish deity to prove that he's indeed the real deal.What is so complex about that?

If i tell you to give me N100,000 to put under my pillow and it will double before tomorrow morning, you will outrightly refuse me but you are quick to believe that a man called Jesus walked on water all because a book called the bible said so.If i tell you to loan me N10 million so that i can export used bathroom slippers and canned Ogbono soup, you will say i am crazy and my idea is ridiculous but you same people easily cough out 3 months salary/earnings as pledges in church all because the Pastor assured you of "divine blessings".For you to have that much confidence, there must be some other proof other than a bible.Or does your god live in a bible? Mind you, that bible is printed by human hands in a printing press.

All i have asked time and time again is :

What is the proof that the Christian god is indeed the true creator of the universe! ! !

I am not asking for sentiments, off key derailing comments or bible quotations.I don't need any beating about the bust.Just go straight to the point.What is so hard about this question? If you believe that your salvation dwells within Christianity then you must have iron clad proof of what you worship other than sentiments!

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@ tudor and harakiri

Can u instead prove to us who u think is the maker of the earth, if not yahweh ?

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how does this contradict science??

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@Joagbaje:

Here again in support of man rather than God as usual, are you? Lets not make this an issue.

Please JUST type out what Matthew 23: 8 says (if you truly believe you are a Christian, nothing will scare/embarrass you and nothing will make you pretend you didn't see a contrary opinion. Christ never evaded issues or questions - if you do, you are following somethng else and not the Risen Christ). Thank you.

PS: Look at the post above by "akwaowoudo". Let us learn (from God not chris thoughts)

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@ Skyndyp

The bible also points out clearly in the new testament that we have to verify every spirit that comes our way. For referential purposes, the bible has two basic problems ie. Translation & interpretation. Where you refute, flash my line beneath and i'll call to throw more light. We must learn!

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Nuclearboy

You should watch this your wrong use of scriptures. You should know the context by which a statement is made. God is not against anyone being a teacher of father.

Ephes. 4:11

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Hebrews 5:12

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Ephes. 6:4

And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

And this idea of being annointed equally is errronous.

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Re: Pastor Chris Says "Take It" And People Fall. Do You Believe It?

« #227 on: Today at 07:50:36 PM »

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Quote from: yelanst on Yesterday at 11:18:02 PM

MR HARAKIRI,U WANTED EVIDENCE THAT ATTEST TO THE FACT THAT GOD EXIST AND THAT THE BIBLE IS REAL. THINK ABOUT THIS ANCIENT BOOK CALLED THE BIBLE WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN REVIEWED FOR MANY CENTURIES, BUT, STILL REMAINS CURRENT NOW AND, UNDOUBTLY, MANY YEARS TO COME.

How is the bible current?. . . .How does the bible agree with any laws of nature that we see around?

Quote

MOST OF THE PHYSICS AND CHEM TEST BOOKS U READ ARE BEING REVIEWED ANNUALLY TO MAKE THEM CURRENT.

(1) THINK ABOUT GODS PROMISE TO ISREAL OF MAKING THEM GREAT AND UNDEFEATABLE IN ANY WAR THE FIGHT. IS THAT HAPENNING TODAY OR NOT?

Again how is the bible current? It seems you do not really know what you are talking about because Israel have been defeated SO MANY times in different wars. . .A little reading will help you. . . .

Quote

(2)SERVERAL THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, JESUS SAID THAT AT THE END TIMES, NATIONS SHALL RISE AGAINST NATIONS AND KINGDOMS AGAINST KINGDOM, FAMINES, TRIBULATIONS, EARTHQUAKES, ETC. I BELEIVE U DO KEEP ABREAST WITH THE PRESENT DAY PHENOMENA.

My friend you do not know what you are talking about and Jesus was clearly LYING because famine, wars, natural disasters have been a part of man long because the writers of the bible wrote down what they said Jesus said. . . . In fact there is less war now a days than back in the days. . .Read the bible and see how violent the OT days were, more wars were fought before Jesus was born than now. . . .Now despite the fact that we have such things as nuclear weapons we are still FAR less violent than people that lived 4000 years ago, a simple visit to the middles east will tell you how violent they were, they were so violent that they build walls round their cities, the chance of a man dying in the hands of another man has greatly reduced now compared to during the time of Jesus. . . . .Natural disasters have ALWAYS being and will ALWAYS be a part of human and animal existence

Quote

(3) READ ECCLESIASTES 9:11, "THE RACE IS NOT FOR THE SWIFT, ". DID YOU EVER BELIEVE THAT FRANCE AND ITALY, THE TWO SEMI-FINALIST PLAYERS IN THE LAST EDITION OF THE WORLD CUP, WILL NOT MAKE IT TO THE SECOND ROUND IN TIS EDITION OF THE WORLD CUP.

YES. . . .France won the 1998 world cup and were kicked out in the group stage of the 2002 world cup so there is nothing new there. . . .

Quote

(4) "THE SWORD SHALL NOT DEPART FROM YOUR HOUSE". TILL DATE HAS THE SWORD DEPARTED FROM THE HOUSE OF DAVID AS A RESULT OF THE KILLING OF URIAH.(DONT ASK ME FOR DETAILS, DO SOME RESEARCH.)

You don't know anything thing about research do you?. . . .

Quote

(5)"I WILL BLESS THOSE WHO BLESS YOU AND CURSE THOSE WHO CURSE YOU". GERMANY LOST THE 2ND WORLD WAR SIMPLY B/C THE PROSECUTED AND KILLED OVER SIX MILLION JEWS. AMERICA IS BLESSED TODAY SIMPLY B/C THE ALWAYS FIGHT FOR THE JEWISH COURSE. BESIDES, TODAY YOU WILL SEE WITH ME THAT THE JEWS ARE PROSPEROUS IN WHATEVER THE DO. MOST AMERICAN SCIENTISTS ARE JEWS. THESE DUDES ARE BLESSED B/C GOD BLESSED THEM THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO AND IT IS STILL MANIFESTING IN THEM TILL DATE.

My friend you CLEARLY do not know what you are talking about. . . .True, Germany lost the second world war but they have bounced back and today Germany is amongst the 5 biggest economies in the world, Germany as a nation is batter than Israel both economically and in terms if military might, The killed 6 million Jews yet as a country they are better than Israel. . . .So what the heck are you talking about?. . . . If the Jews are blessed why then are they not the most developed country on earth? Why don't they have the best economy or military might?. . . . .Blessed indeed. . . .As it stands now Germany is more blessed than Israel, no?. . . .

There are some American scientist that are Jews but it is NOT most of them, How many percentage of the NAS(the most prestigious scientific body in the USA) are Jews. . . .My friend stop bandying lies all over the place. . . .

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MY FRIEND, THINK ABOUT ALL THIS. FOR THE FACT THAT THIS SO CALLED HEBREW MYTH( ACCORDING TO SOME POSTERS) CALLED THE BIBLE SILL FINDS RELEVANCE AFTER THOUSANDS OF YEARS ATTEST TO THE FACT THE AUTHOR MUST BE A SUPERNATURAL BEING. THANK YOU.

How does the bible remain relevant? Tell me one developed nation that uses the principles of the bible to help it develop. . . .Even the Jews are secular state, no?. . . . .The bible remain relevant only to the underdeveloped and third world countries, no?. . . .

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How is the bible current?. . . .How does the bible agree with any laws of nature that we see around?  

Again how is the bible current? It seems you do not really know what you are talking about because Israel have been defeated SO MANY times in different wars. . .A little reading will help you. . . .

My friend you do not know what you are talking about and Jesus was clearly LYING because famine, wars, natural disasters have been a part of man long because the writers of the bible wrote down what they said Jesus said. . . . In fact there is less war now a days than back in the days. . .Read the bible and see how violent the OT days were, more wars were fought before Jesus was born than now. . . .Now despite the fact that we have such things as nuclear weapons we are still FAR less violent than people that lived 4000 years ago, a simple visit to the middles east will tell you how violent they were, they were so violent that they build walls round their cities, the chance of a man dying in the hands of another man has greatly reduced now compared to during the time of Jesus. . . . .Natural disasters have ALWAYS being and will ALWAYS be a part of human and animal existence

YES. . . .France won the 1998 world cup and were kicked out in the group stage of the  2002 world cup so there is nothing new there. . . .

You don't know anything thing about research do you?. . . .

My friend you CLEARLY do not know what you are talking about. . . .True, Germany lost the second world war but they have bounced back and today Germany is amongst the 5 biggest economies in the world, Germany as a nation is batter than Israel both economically and in terms if military might, The killed 6 million Jews yet as a country they are better than Israel. . . .So what the heck are you talking about?. . . . If the Jews are blessed why then are they not the most developed country on earth? Why don't they have the best economy or military might?. . . . .Blessed indeed. . . .As it stands now Germany is more blessed than Israel, no?. . . .

There are some American scientist that are Jews but it is NOT most of them, How many percentage of the NAS(the most prestigious scientific body in the USA) are Jews. . . .My friend stop bandying lies all over the place. . . .

How does the bible remain relevant? Tell me one developed nation that uses the principles of the bible to help it develop. . . .Even the Jews are secular state, no?. . . . .The bible remain relevant only to the underdeveloped and third world countries, no?. . . .

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^^

Mazaje, I cant believe you took time to reply that post. . . I dont think the guy actually believes the ridiculosity he posted.

Pls stop being so vague. . . Could you please explain to me why the person would be dead wrong to conclude by just looking at its design that the hawaii rock was designed by an artist??

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Please read through my posts again and try to grasp the essence of what i've been talking about.For the umpteenth time, i believe that there are supreme forces that brought mankind into existence as we know it BUT THAT FORCE IS NOT THE JEWISH god! ! ! . I never said Yahweh was the supreme god.The only time i mentioned the name was when i mentioned several other names he's known as in Christianity.

Please read well before you type!

Thanks.

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Again I ask you, a person who looks at that accidental rock and concludes its by ''intelligent design'' solely because it looks like a design, will he be right??

[quote][/quote]

@ Tudor,

Chick. Just answer his question,

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You yourself admitted that the accidental rock [b]looks like a face. . . Does that not equal to ''represent something''??

Again I ask you, a person who looks at that accidental rock and concludes its by ''intelligent design'' solely because it looks like a design, will he be right??

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