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Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?

@pilgrims

Now, I have been asking you these questions but you have been ignoring, so I decided to open a fresh thread for my questions:

Bros. Olabowale told you that Jesus never read the bible and you provided a verse on the book of Elias, some questions for you here

1. Did Jesus read the bible, provide your proof?

2. Was he given the bible or the gospel?

3. Did he read the bible or book of Elias?

4. Is the book of Elias part of the bible?

5. If the answer to 4 above is in affirmative, please where is that book in the bible?

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55 answers

@topic :

Did Muhammed read the Quran ?

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@Pilgrim.1: If you are a pretty woman, my dear Olayiwola, is 24 years old. Maybe I should start talking to you parents about you being his bride. Then I will remind you when you complain to me as your inlaw, that he was honestly frank about any subject matter that may relate to you. Supposed when you are pregnant and he sincerely tells you that you are unusually overweight. I will simply tell you that you had throw the gauntlet on such and such occasion, hence, you just have to grin and bear it for now.

Obe o dara lorun. stop and face the truth about life. You know many married women in your own family. Ask any of them. The truth will be told to you, exactly as Muhammad (as), told it, some 14 centuries ago. This is reality and please face it squarely. Abi I lie, Nwando? Your beau will not sleep in the same room with you, if he dare to say something that may even resembling putting you down a notch. demeaning your self worth or your own perception of yourself.

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@Pligrim.1: What I have simply demostrated with Bioscan, since that simple idea is too complex, is simply this, Knowledge is continuous. Discovery ain't stop yet. What is not known today or flatly disagreed upon, because of the available knowledge of the day, may be analysed and then be agreed upon in the future!

I will simply answer your theorem about the alphabets in the Qur'an with Verse 7 of the Third Chapter, known as Al-Imran; He it is Who sent down to thee the book; Init are verses basic or foundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book; Others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say; 'We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord;' and none will grasp the message except men of understanding.

Pligrim.1, so you see what is explained in the Qur'an, the basic or foundamental parts, and not the allegoric part, is enough to guide anyone, from before conception to after death! You are seeking the allegorical part, as to want to belittle the persperious book, you have your answer. It is self explanatory.

I encourage you to read suratul Zumar, Chapter 39. Please read it. May God guide your soul.

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@olabowale,

I certainly respect your status as a married man, and I'm genuinely happy for you. However, being a married man or woman does not justify the need to lie - and that is why I would rather not pretend to go against my conscience in order to be agreeable with your views.

Lol. . let me share something with you:

~ a wise wife will ask for nothing less than an HONEST husband

whom she can trust at all times!

~ a wise husband will preserve his marriage with wisdom

and HONESTY at all times.

If spouses begin to tell "small lies", they are still lying to each other and living a lie! Heck! What kind of life would result in that marriage? Even in the case of a woman who is worried about her size and shape should not be lied to - that is the least thing she would expect from one who is called her husband! However, a wise husband knows how to first appreciate his wife and shares the truth with her in such a way that she would be happy to do something about it!

Perhaps, this issue of Muslims lying to their wives is not a recent phenomenon (certainly, a man does not have to be a 'Muslim' in order to lie to his wife). However, I remember just one incident recorded in the Hadiths when someone approached Muhammad about this:

Malik's Muwatta Book 56, Num. 56.7.15

Malik related to me from Safwan ibn Sulaym that a man asked

the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace,

"Can I lie to my wife, Messenger of Allah?" The Messenger of

Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said,

"There is no good in lying." The man said, "Messenger of Allah!

Shall I make her a promise and tell her?" The Messenger of Allah,

may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said,

"It will not be held against you."

Does that explain why many Muslims seek to justify lying to their wives? If that is the case, my little offer here is that they be very careful to not confirm to us that they have well qualified themselves to be the hypocrites that Muhammad warned about:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 847:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The signs of a hypocrite are three:

(1) whenever he speaks, he tells a lie,

(2) whenever he is entrusted, he proves to be dishonest,

(3) whenever he promises, he breaks his promise.

Could we then say that such is the very same idea you have been seeking to justify all along? I pray not; but it strikes me that a husband such as you described actually fits the 3 signs of a hypocrite highlighted in the hadith above.

Thanks for the advice. Actually, like I hinted somewhere else, I'm safe from the hatman decree of 'Allah' who has promised by an irrevocable ordinance to make every Muslim to enter Hell fire (Sura 19:71). That is why I'm begging that you carefully consider the end before you get there!

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You definately have a trademark in compiling piles of rubbish calling them posts. What are all these now?

The debate of Catholicsim was sure more intellectually tasking than this one cos thse guys have just lost it! No sound reasoning on their part,

The truth stares yo in the face, yet, because o one 'questions' "Allah's" 'prophet' you just swallow it and not give yourself some reasoning. Your blindness is worst than that of a man born without sight and unfortunately, you would not seek a solution!

Cant you see you cant defend this absurdity of Mohammad and Allah? How can they tell you to go and drink a camel's urine?

WHAT DO SPIRITS EAT? The jinn or spirits eat dung and bones according to Muhammad (vol. 5, no. 200)! This bit of information is as far out as one can go.

Muhammad would suck in water up his nose and then blow it out because,

'Satan stays in the upper part of the nose all night' (vol. 4, no. 516).

Bad breath means that Allah will not hear your prayers. You may not eat garlic or onions before going to prayers because Allah will not hear you with their smell on your breath. (vol. 1, nos. 812, 813, 814, 815; vol. 7, nos. 362, 363).

Yawning is from Satan according to Muhammad in Hadith no. 509, vol. 4.

Anyone who dares believe that MO was a prophet needs to be checked up mdically obviously.

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@Pligrimage; One is always a product of the enviroment and the nature which one is from. You can conningly hide the truth, as always. But for sure your heart tells you the truth. That is if there is a conscience. You have never been married, I think. For sure, I have. In my choice of women, I use set of elements, which are usually the bases for which I find somebody agreeable with me.

The reason I do this, is very simple. If a disagreement arises between us, will I be able to stand her, while I am still under some form of anger. For her, I hope it is the same principal that she employs and then decided to marry me, knowing that we are not perfect beings. If a woman simply ask her husband to know if she is fat, and the poor fella is foolish enough to tell the truth, that she is. Go ask somebody, if you do not know, the guy will sure spend the night on the sofa,a different bed or staring at the cold back of his wife.

Aburo, am stopping here because I got to get going. But a word is enough to the wise. If you think you have a good religion, good for you. God Almighty Allah will separate the people of paradise and the rest will be people of hellfire. Please do not come from the later.

As for Mr. Ali Sina of Nwando fame, Qur'an is for all times. Yet at the end of time, there will still be some knowledge, from it that are not even discovered by man. For example, alif, lam, mim, nun, quf, kaf, etc, in the Qur'an, no one knows the meaning and therefore, the explanation to any one of them. That in itself, explain what Ali Sina does not know. In the future generation, there will be more to knowledge than what is known today. We do not have full knowledge of all things, yet.

Today, there is a company called Bioscan in Las Vegas, NV, their medical devise can detect so many deseases, even at their earliest sign in the body. It is a device upgraded from NASA's experiments and it is a higher grade of device than retinascan. Nwando, please take note of this.

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To alhajis justifying LYING by trying to disguise it under "wisdom" and propaganda . . . here is what the bible has to say.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

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Pligrim.1: Three Gods in One God: Is Jesus God, yes or no?

Is the Father in heaven God, yes or no?

Is the Holy Spirit God, yes or no?

You will have to post the verse(s) from the Bible yourself. If you can proof Jesus to be God/Lord, I win the argument.

About the three situations where lying is permitted, you need to accept these put forward clear understanding: If you marry an unattractive man, whatever your reason for marrying him, for some unknown reason, he asked if you think he is handsome or ugly. This is your children's father. And you are not in the heat of an argument. There is no bad blood between you. Now tell me, what will be your answer? We will see how wise you are. And the ability to hold a marriage.

Will you be tagged a liar, by keeping your household peacefully, if you lie to this vunerable man?

If you have two formerly dear friends, who are now in terrible feud at each other, yet they are still your friends. Whats your primary responsibilty, since you claim to be Jesus christlike? Will you endeavor to bring the two feuding buddies to end their feud, and become friends again? You must never forget, that their feud does impact you and others, maybe their families and other friends, also. If you have exhausted all avenues to quell this feud, will you be considered and be labelled a habitual liar if you went to each and say the other missed him and hope to end the feud? And you by this effort, bring them together. Tell me is this Jesus Christlike or evil deed? Whats your Solomonic wisdom on this subject?

Have you heard of what is known as Military strategy? This is where, in truth or in a bluff, there is a propaganda campaign to win the war, quickly and decisively. In war, the warring parties, see the opponents as mortal enemies. Hence, the objective is to defeat the enemies, with the least casualties on your side and with the least amount of resources, eg, manpower, ammos and time. If you find a way to discourage the enemies to fight you and at by this get them to surrender, the better for you. You have seen many a battles where before any single bullet is fired, there flyers and audible announcements being made to get the enemies' soldiers to defect or surrender altogether. The civilians are even encouraged to leave the would be battlefield.

If you you praise or exagerate your military poweress, so that you may not have to fight at all, because you get the enemies to surrender, will this be better for your side? Or do you intend to waste lives, because you lack military strategy, even before the firing of a single bullet? Hence, your side gets bugged down for as long as the enemies are able to put up a fight? War, is an ugly enterprise. I asked a retired Military general, about this before I pen it. He agreed with me, in all I write here.

Where is your knowledge about preserving lives?

In all of the three above, there is no one with a single aota of truth, if these are the quarters in which you lie, can call call you a liar.

I do not want to even talk about clear deceit from the Bible. And please don't ask me to bring you a verse. Read the Bible first. Then come back to me.

At your immediate above hadith, I have no disagreement with it. Here in the west, specifically in USA, people dies for the flag. After death, their surviving loved ones will even say that he died in what he loved. Some will even say that if he had other lifes, he would give them willingly for the country. Tell me, which is greater, a country or God?

Ni gba wo ni maku o ni ku? Ni gba wo ni maku o ni joye baba e?

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@teck-zilla,

Thanks for sharing a bit of your Hadith of the Day.

Here are a few others you should consider:

[list]

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause."[/list]

Think carefully upon that one.

Regards.

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HADITH OF THE DAY: 'WAS IT NOT A LIVING (SOUL)?'

A funeral procession once passed in front of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and he stood up out of respect. When he was told the person in the coffin was Jewish and not Muslim, he said: "Was it not a living (soul)?"

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Hadith 399

HADITH OF THE DAY: WEALTH AND WISDOM

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Envy is not permitted except in two cases: (Envy) of a person who God has given wealth and he spends it in the right way, and (envy of) a person who God has given wisdom and he gives his decisions accordingly and teaches it to others."

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Hadith 490

VERSE OF THE DAY: CHANGE BEGINS WITH EACH PERSON

"God will never change the condition of a people until they change that which is within themselves."

The Holy Quran, 13:11

HADITH OF THE DAY: DO NOT HURT YOUR NEIGHBOR

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Whoever believes in God and the (Day of Judgment) should not hurt his neighbor. . .should serve his guest generously and. . .should say something good or keep quiet."

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Number 158

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A yoruba adage that found its way into the book of Mathew?

Mathew 7: 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat. 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

alhaji . . . you muslims have been plagiarizing the bible and glorifying a fraud in the quran for too long. The truth is finding you out.

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@olabowale,

I would gladly have obliged your request to leave you both on this one; but you cannot make comments about me in such a manner and expect my to just let it pass. I'm not a wind-blows-anyhow kind of believer, and my contributions should have helped you seen that point solidly enough.

Esther in particular was an icon that played a significant role in the history of the Jews - for she was instrumental in the hands of God to deliver the Jews from the diabolic plot of Haman to destroy the entire Jewish nation and leave them no trace in history! (Esther 7:3-6).

Jeremiah was a monumental prophet in the history of the Jews whose prophecies had huge impact both on Israel and other nations (cf. Jer. 18:7-10).

How do you then come about the idea that Esther and Jeremiah were "less noted entities" in the history of mankind? And how is it that Muhammad conveniently avoided other monumental prophets in Biblical history - such as Isaiah whose prophecy pointed out the deity of the Messiah (Isaiah 9:6)?

If you suppose that the mere mention of 'Nuuh' in the Qur'an then means that other prophets were "less noted entities in the history of mankind as a whole", could you please let us know what impact the following chapters of the Qur'an have made "in the history of mankind as a whole"?

~ (سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam) chapter 6: "Cattle, Livestock"

~ (سورة النحل , An-Nahl) chapter 16: "The Bee"

~ (سورة النمل , An-Naml) chapter 27: "The Ant, The Ants"

~ (سورة العنكبوت , Al-Ankaboot) chapter 29: "The Spider"

~ (سورة المنافقون , Al-Munafiqoon) chapter 63: "The Hypocrites"

~ (سورة الفيل , Al-fil) chapter 105: "The Elephant"

If you could refer to Esther and Jereemiah as "less noted entities", could you please show us how chapters named after those animals could have been "more noted entities" in the history of mankind as a whole?

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@davidlyan: Be sincere, thats yoruba and old tradition adage.

It is you who do not anything about the world. Please stick with Medicine.

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alhaji, be sincere with yourself. That quote you plagiarise is directly taken from the bible and can not be found in the quran or hadith! Were you not the same person crying about a corrupted bible? How then can you lift a quote from a corrupt document and then continue mentioning it as if it came from Allah?

What is the islamic "road to destruction"? why is it wide? Road to what "success"? Exam success? Why is it narrow?

you said road to "success", combatant says road to "eternal life" . . . which do we believe? where is islam's promise of "eternal life"?

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SO ISLAM LEGITIMISES LYING. Good to know. Little wonder babs and olabowale will always say one thing here and say another elsewhere.

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That is a curse that will never come to pass. Thank you.

Neither do you find a chapter named after Jesus Christ despite the fact that He is God in human flesh who came to shed His blood for our salvation. YET the entire bible is all about Him.

According to the bible, which you falsely claim is not as explicit as that of the quran, carefully details those who were saved from the flood and those who were not. Noah's wife was saved from the flood . . . the quran falsely claims she died in the flood.

The quran lies that Noah lost a son in the flood . . . BUT the bible details that Noah had 3 (THREE) children . . . unlike the quran, those children and their descendants are named and their genealogy can be traced.

What are the names of Noah's children based on that plagiarised fairy tale in the quran?

It is a historical fact that Shem - - was the father of modern day Jews today, Japhet - - the Europeans and Ham - - whose children, Mizraim and Put are the ancestors of the present day Africans who settled around modern day Egypt. Where in the Quran can we find these?

and why is this most important fact missing in the book of nuuh?

According to the bible, all but noah, his wife, his sons, their wives and children, perished in the flood. What then is the question that you ask?

False! Noah in the bible NEVER once prayed for the destruction of evil doers. Only evil, unsaved and godless characters in the quran pray for the destruction of "evil doers".

Read the bible, Moses stood in the gap for the Jews when God wanted to destroy the Isrealites for worshipping the golden calf.

Not once did Moses pray that God should kill Pharaoh, that exists only in the fraudulent quran, written more than 4000 yrs after the events it purports to document.

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@Pligrim.1: I know that you will agree with david. Remember, you are in the same religion. A religion that has three gods in One God! Am not making light of the issue. What am saying is that my Qur'an say that it is not the case. My prophet who was known even by his archiest enemies, as Alamiin, the trust worthy/truthful, did not tell any lies.

Before I answer your joke above, is it not true that you christians believe that your saviour enter hell and defeated satan thereby? Whats the diffrerence between hell that your saviour enters and the hellfire that is mentioned in the Qur'an? When you can explain each and if there is any difference and you can prove that they are not the same then, I will adress your concern appropriately.

What you are missing, as you have asked above, is true guidance. The religion of God. You need to go back and asked God for purication of the heart. then you seek His Mercy and guidance and reenter Islam. You and all of yours who left it, in the first place. This is the way of success.

As the brother have said in an earlier post to Nwando, the road to destruction is wide and paved with fool's gold. However truth path to success, is narrow. It is ese o gbeji road. It is not wide enough for one to put two feet, side by side.

Remember that as the ignorants are trooping out of Islam, in Africa, the wise are trooping into it, in the west. It goes to the verse in the Qur'an, where the Almight Allah says that if a people does not worsip Him, He will replace them with other that will love to worship Him. Whats your problem. You will never be able to frustrate any true muslim and definately, not Allah.

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@Davidylan: Please Pligrim.1, leave me with david on this one. You Pligrim, seem to me as a whatever and whereever the wind blows kinda believer. Someday, InshaAllah, you will reenter Islam, you and your whole family. I pray that you live long, to old age. Amiin.

David. David. David. How many times did I call you? Three times, my guy. When that happens in Yoruba culture, there is some attention needed. So pay attention.

You had answered the question of the ark, built by Nuuh. Except that you did not, in your haste see it, in the Qur'an. So I ask you to go back and read everything about Nuuh, in the Qur'an. He was mentioned in many surah, and then in Surah Nuuh. In the whole of the Bible, both OT and NT, you do not find a chapter named after this noble prophet Nuuh (as). Yet we read about Ester, Jeremiah, etc. Less noted entities in the history of mankind as a whole. At least, the Jews, Christians and the Muslims, believe that he was important to their religions.

In your quote about Surah Nuuh, above, you mentioned that from the Qur'an, you learnt that some people of Nuuh answered his call. These people, who answered, regardless of the numbers, were saved. The rest, which included his wife and a son (your Bible is not as explicit as that of Qur'an about this issue of Nuuh's family members), perished in the flood. If you read enough about nuuh in the Qur'an, again, you will find out that there was a vessel/ an ark, that Nuuh and those people who were saved with him sheltered in.

So david, the question you have to answe for me is this, from you Bible, was there a single evil doer who was not destroyed by Nuah's flood? Just like any prophet who prayed for the destructions of evil doers, eg Moses prayed for the destruction of Pharaoh of his time, he also prayed for the destruction of the one who engineered the golden calf, etc, Nuah prayed and his prayer was answered. His Lord destroyed the evil doers.

Just because a folk dies in flood does not stop him, if he is an evil doer from receiving the punishment that is the burning in hell. If he is a believer and doer of good, that will not make him not go to paradise, either. So are you saying to us, that Pharaoh of Moses will not go to hellfire, because he died in flood? Please proof your case.

Do you know or it is Allah Almighty God that knows? Just because you disagree does not make you correct. You may be actually be 100% wrong. In this case you are wrong, in all your points. The first thing is that you did not read enough about Nuuh in the Qur'an. Secondly, you do not even worship God directly. You associate partner with him. Inview of this, your heart at the moment is deseased and no good enters it. Unless and until, you mend your way and seek true repentance, then God Allah Subuhana wa tahallah, is most Merciful most Forgiving.

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So based on this, i went off to read the surah named Nuuh. and what did i find there?

Did the quranic Nuuh really do that?

Surah Nuuh : 26. And N�h (Noah) said: "My Lord! Leave not one of the disbelievers on the earth!

27. "If You leave them, they will mislead Your slaves, and they will beget none but wicked disbelievers."

Is this the Noah of the bible? The bible depicts that the wicked where destroyed in a flood but the quranic Nuuh?

Surah Nuuh: 25. Because of their sins they were drowned, then were made to enter the Fire, and they found none to help them instead of All�h.

How were they first DROWNED and then made to enter THE FIRE? What fire and where?

Muslims cry loudly about "noah's ark", but that surah does not ONCE mention any ark or how Noah and his family were saved from the flood.

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@Davidylan: You are yelling, again, David! Calm down. I believe that we can all get along. There is a surah, named Nuuh (Noah), in the Qur'an. So David, whats your problem. Noah is now an exclusive personality of the Jews and Christians, and not that of Muslims? You must be kidding me. I think your ignorance about Qur'an is a major problem. No wonder you write as if you are forcing us, the muslims to accept your premise.

Imams are necessary in islamic prayers, for the simple fact that there must be a leader in a congregational leader, in any congregational prayer.

@Pligrim.1: Is this what you are calling responses? davidylan of all people? David, is not serious. He just a player.

Please show me the authentic hadith, with sound chain of naration, of cancelled and not in Qur'an verses, yet revealed to Muhammad. We are not talking about abrogated verses here. All the abrogated verses are in the Qur'an. For example, the process of forbiddening alcohol, illustrates this abrogation in the Qur'an.

So my lady, you believed that Muhammad was telling the truth, when he said his 'Allah' revealed the Bible? If you believe that part, then you have to believe it when he said his 'Allah' said the the Bible is corrupted. When it was revealed afresh, it was uncorrupted. God did not reveal it already corrupted. That would have been possible.

However, in time, it became corrupted and his'Allah' informed him of it. Is this very difficult for you to understand? My darling, I don't have to humor you. All am doing is disarming you. I understand. Ayini ke lo mo. O ma yini pada. Ibadan lo mo. O mo layi po. Laugh and sleep tight.

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@Ndipe and olabowale,

To reassure you, I wasn't angry. And yes, "analphabetic" is a word I'd use to describe illiterate posts pretending to ask intelligent 'questions'. We have been through this issue again and again - and several people have attempted to echo the same illiterate questions again and again in complete vacancy of thought!

Even after davidylan offered them pointers to their worries, they pretended to not see the answers they were seeking. I also tried offering them the reason why I don't oblige any answers to such Muslim hypocrisy - and they kept on the same dense queries.

If people are seeking answers, then certainly I would offer answers - I have always done that in the past, and will continue to do so. But the moment it all becomes a deliberate exercise of duplicity, I don't waste time trying to pretend that such fellows are being "intelligent".

If they can read, they should do so and move the discussion forward. If they cannot read and then pretend the intelligence they don't have, it's no use trying to be politically correct with such piteous rascality.

Regards.

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Here is something that never stops fascinating me. The story of Noah is NOT in the quran, infact you regale us with a tale from the very same bible you then go on to claim that Allah confirmed as corrupted by the scribes?

Crap and nonsense. Sir Olabowale, it seems the muslims also suffer from a chronic inability to understand the truth even when it stares them in the face, always choosing to run back to the default "revealed revelations" nonsense that was the hallmark of mohammed's forgery.

Moses wrote 5 books in the old testament . . . most of them were his own very words to the jews and documentaries on the Jewish 40yr journey in the wilderness . . . how does this qualify as a revelation?

David wrote the psalms . . . essentially a book of poetry and song lyrics . . . and you refer to this as a "revelation"? So if i publish a book of poetry, that is also a "revelation"?

Jesus Christ wrote not a single part of the new testament and yet you persist with this nonsense of "revealed revelations"?

David's 150 psalms have absolutely no relation to the books of the law that Moses wrote. This kind of question can only come from the intellectually impaired.

The gospels are the story of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ . . . what do they have to do with the psalms and deuteronomy? Alhaji think before posting.

The prophets of the old testament were like God's spiritual leaders of Isreal (not merely reformers) before the Jews demanded to have kings like other nations.

This is ridiculous . . . why do you need an imam? Why dont you kick out your imam once your mosque has mastered the art of islamic prayer?

Alhaji, there are just too many yawning gaps in your tattle. Where is the torah and injil Allah claimed to have sent? did mohammed lose it?

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@Pligrim.1: Aburo. She the exam was okay? I wish you extreme success. Amiin.

The Yes and no about Bible as a revealed "Book of Allah," is from khaled at answering islam.com, right? I just stumbled on the site today. Well last week, somebody invaded my compute with some, what is supposed to be about Isra wa Miraj, from the Qur'an. As I read on, i realised it was not proislam, but trying to disprove, the occurence of the events. Well, when i got to this site, today, the same argument that you are making now is what khaled is making. He was just trying to narrow everyone by some esoteric thinking. He want to apply logic to everything.

Let me answer your question: We all agree that man is giving free will on everything. The will to choice, between right and wrong. Yet people know what is right and opt for the opposite. During the time of Noah, he called his nation to the truth. Yet only a few answered. The rest refused, including his son and wife. So the evil handwork of mankind, has been going on befoer Moses. Since we are talking about Moses, David, and Jesus revealed revelations, we have to ask this direct question: If Moses' Torah was never corrupted, why do you need David's sabuur? If These two were never corrupted, why would we need Injiil? please bare in mind that each prophet that came after the previous, is a reminder, reformer to set people straight, again. If people were on the straight part, why is there a need for another prophet? Then, why is there realky a need for a prophet with a revelation?

God, had used the progenies of Isiaq (as), which ended with Isa bin Mariam. God, as He willed turn the other line, the progeny of Ismail (as). This is Muhammad, a descendant of Ibrahiim (as), the upright, in belief. Ibrahiim did not add or associate any god with God Almighty. In Muhammad (as), God confirmed that the other books had been corrupted (not oure any more), through the hands of the scribes and rabbis. He guarantees that the Qur'an will never enter the realm of corruption. He guarantees it, Himself. That is enough for me!

I will now simply go to your Bible, even though that is not necessary, but simply to point this out to you. Could you comfirm to me with certainty that there is no single verse that will corroborate that they scribes have played fast and loose with any part of the Bible? Please take into the account of many factors, the many varied types of Bibke in exuistence from the ages, the verses that are missing in one and not in another, whole book/chapters missing in one and not in another. Please consider your answer very greatly, before putting anything down. If you are no able to defend the indefensible, then come back to Islam. Allah, is always merciful and alway forgiving.

To ba binu ton, she wa fowo wo nu?

@Ndipe: Thanks my man. She is so angry, I can smell it from here.

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All these abusive word calling someone an analphabetic aint worth it, @pilgrim.

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I know Mister! Christains are even dominating the north mor than ever before now. That's why your islamist fundamentals and fanatics are trying to curtail their expansion with the sword.

Amen! I do not pray your son should become a thief. Pity those petty thieves that hunger have driven to the edge. was only giving an analogy.

Where the sharia system is very dumd is that it cannot curtail sins of the mind. An amputee can be a more dangerous criminal than the one who has all his organs intact. Your sharia is just a mirage. Its not effective.

Sorry sir! Jesus Himself is full of grace and truth and did not have to 'consult' before forgiving the poor woman. Moses' law could hav called for stoning, it was because God wantd his own dominion and authority established on earth and because he is the author of life, he decides whom to allow and whom to exterminate. Jesus however opened the way and took away th sins of the world and quelled God's anger. We are all now being looked at through Christ's love.

Oh! Allah more often than not refusd to show mercy to 'Infidels'

Please do not compare Jesus and MO. Won ki n se egbe rara! They are not mates you hear? Kep praying that peace will go and meet MO in his grave. Jesus on the other hand is the embdiment of peace Himself.

Wake up!

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Some Good Jews do recognize Almighty Allah and worship him properly please check this out (http://www.Jews-for-Allah.org)

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@jerrymania: No my man, am not prancing around. Thats a gurlie thing. Am 100% prime African muslim male. We do not behave like tinkle bells.

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Ironic that some muslims try to incorporate mohammed into The Holy Bible while denying the Authenticity of the Holy Scriptures. Make up your mind!

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All these false attempts to interject Allah into the bible.

The Jews do not recognize Allah neither do they consider him the "god" of their old testament prophets. No where do we have any record that Moses and co prayed to Allah.

Muslims insist that arabic is the "divine language" of Allah . . . but from archeology and history we know that Arabic is not a language of the jews so neither Moses nor Jesus Christ could ever have spoken arabic during their time. How then were they communicating with Allah? In Aramaic and hebrew?

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@Cgift: Evidently, the typical Yoruba christian, which you are, does not know that there are norther Christians. Islam, contrary to the belief of Nigerians, is not a northern Nigerian religion. The religion is not even Arab people religion. These two people are not 100% muslims.

Unfortunately, you just talk and have no cultural sense. My children, are cultured in a manner that, InshaAllah, will not steal, and there is no fear of them being amputated.

However, in Islam, Allah's mercy is limitless, hence a first time offender is not usually exposed. However, when the type of bad behaviour, like stealing, becomes a second nature of the thief, he becomes careless. Hence, he has no moral compass to distinguish this evil behaviour from what is morally sound. God Almighty, may, if He wills, expose the thief, to be caught, in the act of thievery. The amputees, are not first time offenders. If the Northern Nigerians muslims practise Shariah, properly, there is no blame in the judgements handed down. I do not live in Nigeria and am not a scholar of Islam to seriously comment.

What I know, however, is enough to make me live a relatively honest life. I do not engage in any of the others may engage in. For sure, there is a rule that the Muslims have to follow; it involves in Shariah court, witness and hearing procedure before decisions and carrying out the justice, about any offense.

You failed to realise that Jesus himself did not throw any stone at the woman, he used wisdom and mercy from his Lord Allah to extracate, from the peril. Yet the condition of Jesus , all along was that all the laws and rulings given to Moses were to be fulfilled including the littlest of jot! Moses law called for the stoning. So why didn't Jesus stone the woman, himself? Except, there was part of Moses law that allows for mercy and Jesus used that part, which the Jews had always neglected. Afterall, Moses expressed mercy, from his Lord, Allah, toward Pharaoh, for a while, before the drowning at the sea.

In any case, if Jesus, showed mercy on the poor and helpless woman, it was not Jesus' sole perogative. It was from his Lord, who had instructed him so.

Muhammad and his supporters, upon conquering Makka, did not visit a wholesale slaughter upon his former arch enemy, who as a people ran him and his supporters out their native city. He declared general amnesty over the city and that has never been equal in the history of mankind! It is a whole city, full of people who had offended him and treated him terribly.

Yet, Muhammad, like Jesus in the Qur'an, was not arrogant and not proud. But gave all the glory th his Creator.

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@Cgift: Go look into your book. See the many discrepancies. Within the NT, paul disagrees with Jesus and others who knew Jesus. Well we do not have the writing of Jesus or the Gospel that he preached about the places he went. So Paul and others like him are the latest in town. Even then, christianity has no single Bible as the standard bearer from the onset. The muslims just have look and point to you. Between your rank, there are so many diffrent types, one not totally agreeing with another. Even your learned are saying that, while they dispute amongst themselves.

How then you are saying all these things? Tell me from the Bible, what should be the response of the community to illegal sex, even though consentual, what about molest, stealing when there is no need ti do that, what about any form of immorality? Just one!

In the OT, the rules of communual relationship is changed, even though Jesus did not dare todo it, except to fulfill it. All its jots, etc. Then paul changed the rule and pattern of Jesus, which then allowed him to change the Laws of Moses, etc. maybe thats how you Yoruba, who is not from the children of israel got in under amazing grace. There used to be a film of that title, in the past.

Who is unjust, the one who changed the laws of God which were given to prophets, or the prophets who delivered and followed the Laws? The laws which a later prophet never dared to change, but fulfilled even the jot in the laws. Yet this Eraser of God's laws claimed the prophet that fulfilled even the Jot in the laws is God Almighty!

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In the face of glaring evidence some people will still be holding on to a false sense of defence. Muslims know that their book cannot pass any test given to it. Talk about History, the Present, and the Future (Prophecy). Talk about Creation, about morals and love, their book is found wanting.

Its historical records are a pure falalcy! In cration, it is the poorest book that attempts to give dtails of creation especially as to their god, mountains dropped to stabilise the earth. In prophecy, Mohammad could not see the future and foretell of things to come with such an acurancy as we have in the bible. Talk about science, it has no clue, medicine, zero. Morals ah! With all this hate, racism, the quran is replete with them. Talk about simplicity of doctrines, all this face ast, fly in your ear or cup, yawning of th devil, and ,

vry silly things in deed. Very absurd religion undoubtedly.

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My proofs are from the Holy Bible@Jerrymania.

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Have you actually EVER read the bible? Start from the sermon on the mount. Read the book of John.

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The Gospel, commonly called the "Good News" is about the message of Salvation that Jesus Christ brought for us with His Blood on the cross. Now, when Jesus Christ went around preaching the Gospel, He was essentially telling people that He was the Only Way to God. He preached Repentance to the people and emphasized that He was the Only Way to God.

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@Ndipe: The verse in the NT, that says Jesus went about the places preaching the Gospel, what does that verse mean? It is not teaching the OT and definately not teaching about his life, according to you. Since the four gospels in the Bible, never mind others equally important, but the christians refused to accept, are about his life. Which Gospel did he teach then?

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No wonder they keep coming up with the "Jesus was given the gospels" propaganda.

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Did Jesus Christ read the Gospel?

The Gospel is about the life of Jesus Christ, remember the Holy Bible is divided into two, The Old Testament and The New Testament. So in essence, some of His Miracles and His Sayings are just confirmations of prophecies in the Old Testament.

What else do you want to know?

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Sir Blabberworth and Ho-r-us are back at it again. . .

And if it ain't good ol' Pa Olabs providing back-up like a UPS.

You see folks, the problem with Muslims and the Bible especially those like babatunde(?) and pa Olabowale is this malaise, no let me rephrase, this mentality of applying Islamic thinking into the Scriptures. Eyin eyan, that is wuru wuru to the answer. I'm sorry to say, with this attitude, you would still be looking for "answers" when answers have been offered.

Horus? ROFL, please leave Ho-r-us, he's a case study. emm pilgrim. . .do u have Yankari Games Reserves' emergency no.? Seems one of 'em endangered species has been let loose. . .

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How can the bible read the bible?

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(http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90634.0.html#msg1648091)

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Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?

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@PLigrim.1: I read your long entry in the thread which you directed to. In my observation: matt; 28;20 said that Jesus is with them till the end of time. If we look at this, we will find that it talks about what he left behind, meaning his message. It is from this left behind message you know about jesus. Jesus is not with you physically now. Therefore, is there any change in letter, word, sentence, and even the whole books(as in what the catholic has and the protestant dont)? However the Qur'an of Muhammad, since that will be your surtle suggestion, I will help you to it, at least from the caliphate of Uthman, has been consistent! This will destroy your guaranty of certainty.

Matt 5; 17,7;27. Your b,  and under this, you have Jesus warning against breaking God's commandments! What are those commandments and will it include the Torah of Moses? Moses, through him, God Almighty Allah destroy a powerful dynasty by an ordinary stick in the hand of moses, which he iused for different purpose, before the burning bush! If Moses Torah is part of this God's commandments, how then you follow the person who said it is abrogated by the 'grace?' Even when the prophet who was to be the central theme of that grace did warm against not observing a single JOT of that TORAH!

Anger and all of that; Please check how prevailing it is within christianity and its powerful openness without shame to force others to do them. Was Jesus the first to suggest fasting or preached benevolecy; hardly and it did not end with him, either.

Matt 12: Lord of the sabbath, which is a Jewish thing? Yet he denied being the king of the Jews, never mind being their Lord, when he was confronted! Who should I believe, Jesus or the writer of that verse, matthew of the one who use his name as the pen name? Jesus disagree with this verse and so I will side with my master Jesus. Further, the Christian, employing the mindset of having their cake and at the same time finished eating it, change sabbath or abandoned it altogether and opt for a diffrent day. Jewish/children of israel's day begin at sundown, not after 12 midnight.

Sign of jonah; being 3 days and 3 nights; please calculate, you are ever short, yet you ask for some change back. It does not hold up.

If he denied he was Lord/God while he was alive, while would I believe that he told some folks after death that he is? When we all know that God does not die, which will show that he has a limit. Who wants to worship a God that has limited control? Definately not me.

Church: Jesus did not build one and never mentioned it in all his speech.

Death and resurrection: Since he prayed to god for delivance or safety, I do not see how that shows courage. prophets are very courageous people. They are supported by God, Who has power over all things.Further, all the prayers of every prophet of God is always accepted. If God allows them to make the prayer, He their LORD answers.

My sister, your explanation, as much as I went into it with open mind, without any ambiquity, i came out with clarity of conviction about jesus being a prophet of God. Any lies that may be spewed on him, by anyone, is on that liar.

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Well,me,I am NOT a muslim.

Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?

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@Pligrim.1: Please can you tackle jerrymania's question of what was teaching from, as it is stated inthe Bible that he was teaching the gospelsof kingdom of God? What Gospel was that; his or which Gospel? For sure it can not be Gospels of his desciples! It will be impossible! That will be a miracle unique by itself! Jerrymania has a legitimate issue here and we should not ignore it, but really deal with it. We all need to know, for sure. Maybe we all missing it all along.

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@ pilgrims1

You got issues with babs not me. I'm not a muslim and i don't belong into any camp.Please retract your words and apologize.

Now if you read my post to David, i never mentioned if he read the bible.

I continued Horus joke on you. It wasnt a serious question.

Do you ever have time to reason? You mentioned Jesus read the Bible accoding to babs. what part? old testament? and if so did he preach the law? if he didnt preach the law then he preached a different thing? if what he preached is the gospel, then what was it all about?

I only need enlightment not hate!!!

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David, you call the book of matthew,mark,luke and john the Gospels.and Jesus didnt read any of them. Now what Gospel was Jesus preaching?

"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people" (Matthew 4:23).

"Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching [what?] the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people" (Matthew 9:35

‘The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel’" (Mark 1:14-15)

So enlighten me David what Gospel he preached.

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@Davidylan: Iwo ni ko yoo orie kuro ni inu ilee to ki si. If you can, because it seems as if its almost impossible for you. Then while you are at it, tell others who are in your circle of Ostrich head in the sand phenominum, to try the same feat!

Its Pligrim.1 who started the controversy of the Jesus reading the Bible at some early age. Even way before his ministry. What you have demonstrated, in this your entry above, is that you hardly read any posting, except your cohorts. The substance of others, except the muslims is way over your head.

I under that problem for my age, but you, still in RIT or UR or Nazareth! Haba. Get with the program, my man. This line is my yabu for you.

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Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?

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