garden of eden
I understood what you were trying to say and I offered a rebuttal to it, and that's especially why I wrote: "you missed the subtle difference between using euphemisms and outright impossibility".
So, for example, inspite - and perhaps because of - the language used in the Eden saga, one can conclude based on reading the story as a whole, that it is mythology.
[quoteI never said Nostrademus was "predicting". I only said he had some writings.
Not necessarily. It can be deduced that rather than being different views of the same event, they are instead different accounts influenced by earlier mythology. An analogy would be Grimm's fairy tales. Rather than being different views of events that happened a long time ago, they could just as well be retellings of old fables.
I plead with you to leave your cynism of God.
However You must know the events of the building of the Pyramids of Egypt and Sudan were After the Flood
And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
The NATION EGYPT WAS MENTIONED VERY LATE IN THE CHAPTER
And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.
Idinrete please Get your HISTOTHEOLOGY RIGHT DONT FEED YOUR HATRED FOR GOD WITH WHAT IS NOT TRUE
@ KAG (I suspect you are male?)
It seems you don't understand what I've been typing since. I'm not interested in getting into a long-winding arguments. Please don't go too deep into my analogies, they are just pictures I draw to try to make you understand (howbeit unsuccessfully) where I'm coming from. I never said Nostrademus was "predicting". I only said he had some writings. All I'm saying in a nutshell is that there are similarities in events in the book of Genesis and other accounts which would cause any non-biased person to think the accounts are different views of the same event.
@ Larry Dee
u people are not answering the question, rather y'all are busy arguing bout religion. please, i'm serious here, i really need to go there & like i said earlier, where's the ark of covenant?!!!
Ask the Apologists of the Pentatech, may be they will procure the visa and the ticket for you. The Ark of Covenant is an entirely different topic on its own. You need to locate the garden of Eden first before looking for the Ark
It's more than just my opinion, it's more of an informed assertion. While it is possible for the story to be a depiction of something important in history (mythologies do that sometimes) it still wouldn't detract from the fact that it has the characteristics of mythology. Also, while one needs to have a good knowledge of many of the cultures mentioned in the Tanakh to fully appreciate it, that shouldn't stop the ability to identify the myths and allegories.
Er, Nostradamus wasn't predicting, he was making things up and coating them in vague and colourful language. It has nothing to do with the translation of language - remember, we haven't had translation problems with any of his contemporaries, at least as far as I know.
I haven't heard of Shem being the father of the Sumers. Do any reputable historians support that view? In any case, it isn't difficult to deduce how the Sumerian culture could have influenced that of the OT people.
Intersting, thanks for that.
I understood your point, but you missed the subtle difference between using euphemisms and outright impossibility. Saying a dragon felled the buildings then flying superheores (with tights, capes etc) flew into the building to save some people is not the same thing as saying, for example, "the weapon of pollution" (whatever that means) was flown into the buildings. In fact, if a full story is written out with the two scenarios the difference would become apparent (I could do a quick mock-up if you like). By the way, I doubt anyone would call a plane any of the last two phrases in an important report.
Outside of the Middle East?
Ok, that's your opinion. Mine is that it's a story that has been told in a certain way that depicts something important in history. Different tribes had different uses for words, and to understand the Old Testament fully, one would have to understand a range of different cultures, languages and civilisations. I don't know if I'm getting my point across but I'll give a bad example. The french prophet/astrologer Nostradamus had a number of writings but they do not translate exactly to the world as we see it today. For example, he referred to bicycle as "metal horse". In the same way, people of ancient times used language differently from how we do today. Genesis is probably symbolic of many different things we do not know.
Agreed. However, it is also believed that the father of the Sumers was one of the Biblical Noah's son - Shem, who travelled to a "distant land" (and puportedly founded the tribe). Therefore some of the Sumerian accounts seem to be either influenced in the same way by the accounts of the Genesis author. Like I said, their culture and language would cause them to paint the stories differently.
Sure. I watched the documentary a few years ago on Discovery though but I'm sure I can find a commentary somewhere. . .
[color=#990000]Rohl said, "You have to picture him carrying Inanna's sacred standard, and her awe-inspiring effect: 'For her, they humbly saluted with greetings like mice.' En route to the Edin, he had to pass through seven 'gates', as in 'seven steps to heaven'. And the order of the gates, one to seven, starting at Susa, indicates that Aratta (Eden) had the spiritual status of heaven." Traditionally, "gates" are associated with mountain passes, but here they're something special - spectacular river-cut mountain gorges that have their own geological name, tangs. -- Culled from Rohl's account, The secret garden : http://www.ramsdale.org/dna6.htm [/color]
I was just trying to portray the fact that different people (especially in ancient times) see things differently. An aeroplane could be a "fine mechanical design","weapon of pollution","flying roaring dragon", "another of Richard Branson's Virgin propaganda" or a" great metal bird". It just depends on who you are, what social influences you've been brought up around and your level of understanding. I think the same applies to these stories. We only read them from one culture's point of view, but the same themes lie in other cultures that are neither Jewish, Christian or Islamic.
"I wonder all the time why people like you derive pleasure from bad-mouthing other people's belief and religon??
from your post, i understand you're not a christian, so instead of coming to prove the belief non-existent, why not just walk on eehh??
na wah oo for some people"
my comment is not about bad mouthing other people's belief and religion, this is a perforated excuses to shy away from the topic of the thread, Can you provide a location of the Garden of Eden? is there any proof or archaelogical evidence that it ever existed? The Pyramids at Luxor, Giza are still standing which were built Tens of Thousands of years before the Jewish Rabbis and scribes would compiled the Torah at the Council of Jammnia,
WHY SHOULD I BE A CHRISTIAN? you need to clarify your second sentence
YES NA REAL WAH FOR SOME PEOPLE WHO WILL NEVER ACCEPT THE PENTATEUCH ACCOUNTS OF THE CREATION.
To be honest, I don't think it's Christian bashing to point out that the story of Eden as presented in Genesis is mythology.
It is generally accepted that the stories that appear in Genesis were influenced by that of the Sumerians. Also, Christianity and Islam clearly originated from Judaism and took with them what is now called Genesis in the Bible.
Could you possible reference that? I'm just curious about it.
The analogy doesn't really apply to the Garden of Eden story. It isn't just different people giving different accounts of the same event, it's different people giving accounts that include dragons causing the towers to fall and superheroes flying in to save a few.
Yet another christianity-basher? Yet, there are similarities between the Sumerian culture and not only Christianity but Judaism and Islam. Sumerian art and folklore for one depicts some biblical events. In fact, the archaelogist David Rohl had to refer to Sumerian literature and language in his quest for the Garden of Eden. For example, in the earlier writings, the "seven steps to heaven" turned out to be seven mountains towards a very significant place in history.
Now let's fold that and put that away. The bombing of the twin towers in New York - Different account have been written about it worldwide. A woman whose husband died in the building would give a different account from the jobless poet who lives down the road and watched it all happen who would give a different account to the man who schooled the bombers and gave them a reason to do the "deed". Now, 3,000 years from now, a bunch of kids read these accounts and therefore conclude it was fake, as all 3 accounts present the same event differently. What would you say to them?
what do you mean, never existed? are you saying the BIBLE is a furgery??
IM SAYING EMPHATICALLY THAT IT NEVER EXSITED, if it did, where is your proof? the stories in the bible about garden of Eden are all copied from Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumerian and Egyptian Creation legends
if you go to Egypt, the Pyramid are still standing, the mummified Pharaohs and all the artifacts and treasures are still intact. How come they were not submerged by the Flood? whether the Bible is a forgery or not you have to do the research yourself and come to your own conclusion.
this is a serious question that needs a logical and rational answer. some people will claim that it was wiped out after the Noahs flood, THAT IS ABSOLUTE AND UTTER NONSENSE. if the Noahs flood actually happened about 3000 or 4500 years ago HOW COME THE PYRAMIDS ARE STILL STANDING UP TO THIS DATE. IT IS AXIOMATIC THAT THE EGYPTIAN AND SUMERIAN CIVILIZATION WERE IN EXISTENCE THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE THE BIBLICAL HISTORICAL ACCOUNT
GARDEN OF EDEN IS HISTORICAL MYTH THAT NEVER EXISTED JUST LIKE THE NOAHS ARK