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Post-is Jesus Really God?

Hello,

Probably this quetion might have had been asked in this Forum in the same way with mine or the other. That  reveales to me an idea of including another word like Post, in the title to show that this one is a new development.

It's in the other forum I'd asked a question as: is Jesus really god? Some moths passed, but unfortunately ended up without a single satisfied answer that can convince me to do believe that yes he is or not.

Due to that aforesaid misfortune, I start looking for that answer myself and now came across some other biblical verses that lead me to sink into more mire.

Verses:

"Hear o Israel: the lord our God is one lord"(Deuteronomy 6:4)

"Why callest me good, there is only one good that is God"(mark 10:18)

"Worship the lord your God, and serve him only"(Mathew 4:10).

My question here is that: if he-jesus is a God, why did he say that we should serve only one Lord that is God? who is that one God? Didn't that seem as muslims' God-Allah?

What is your view my fellow sincere seeker of truth? Please lets share.

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44 answers

How can a physical man/god Jesus Christ be in the image of the unseen God, when in order to get an image you have to be seen?

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The most intricate portion of christian faith is the trinity of christ, u need to know God at a personal level to understand becos me saying stuff wouldnt really get into ur head, took me time to understand 2, i have been there 2, newbie

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@pilgrim

You are going round in circles and saying nothing. I have provided a link in which I answered 4get me's. Go there and provide some questions out of 4get me's that i didnt answer.

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@babs787,

You surprise me yourself. Your argument was this:

When you're quick to point out that someone loves roundabout argument and you fail to notice that it is just the very same thing about your own case, I decided to help you observe again that it was unnecessary for you to have launched that cheap campaign. I used that link to remind you of your typical response to the way you deal with issues; and that said, it doesn't really help your own posts in this motherboard.

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@pilgrim

Your post surprised me. Funny you could your sister's question but couldnt locate my response to 4get me's. Your sister tried diverting the topic and I made her know that the topic was 'was jesus crucified'. Since you came up with that link, you should be able to come up with my response to 4get me's questions too if you are honest to yourself. Its just unfortunate that i couldnt lay my hands on the thread where I answered him but the link below will do.

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-41030.0.htm.

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@babs787,

One of the most hilarious things I ever read on this motherboard is this statement by you, babs787: "it is never my turn". (http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-39462.64.html#msg890477) You were asked a few questions long before stimulus came to Nairaland, and instead of offering answers, you cried as above.

You've demonstrated long ago that you're not on this motherboard to discuss. And trying to pretend you ever answer questions here is the same thing you always do - nothing new.

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@david

Go to the thread and read my explanation.

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What a disgraceful hypocrite. Have you answered the sura 19:71 questions on georgee's thread? Yet you keep claiming to be "coming".

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@pilgrim

Cant he speak for himself? Let me have the questions that I have not answered and I will show you all the questions your brother has avoided. So answer the guy's question and when you are through, I will come with my own questions on the same topic.

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This campaign is sadly weak. We all know you never answer questions, let alone your own roundabout arguments. And yes, stimulus has answered most of your questions.

Some people do not know the meaning of "dignified" - especially when they have nothing of substance to say.

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just because someone called you names doesnt mean you have to resort to name calling yourself,

like i said  you need to present your argument in a dignified and respectable manner

by the way how did you come to the conclusion that stimulus is my brother,  i know you dont mean it in blood-line relation

he is not my brother in the way you are trying to conjecture

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IDINRETE,

Where were you when your brother stimulus called me names.

I was just stating the facts , a dumb Bottom is someone who ignores facts.

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Kuns Kuns Kuns haba! take it easy no need for name-calling there is no need using derogatory terms,

just state your arguments

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Hey, believe is Just that believe ,  it has nothing to do with truth.

If Jesus is God then who was he praying too in the Lord Prayer?

Was he praying to ,  himself?

Dumb Asses like stimulus would try to have us believe that he was praying to himself.

If your prayer are answered , then they were answered by (Eh-Zeus who you call Jesus) , because the Jesus of the bible never told anyone to make him a deity and pray to him.

Moreover, there is ample information on the true siurce of the New Testament , Josephus Flavius Piso , he wrote the play that became the story of the New Testament.

So as much as you would love to believe in the whole Jesus Story , it is just that , a story.

Don't believe me, check these facts for yourself. Josephus Flavius Piso was real , and he wrote the Jesus story (based on myths and tales) which is your belief today.

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Horus,

Just because YOU don't believe in Him, why should I stop believing in my Lord Jesus Christ?

I've prayed to my heavenly Father in Jesus' name; my prayers were answered.

Paulus

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As for those who "believed" that Jesus prayed to himself, I guess that you missed what Matthew's & Luke's Gospels had in them about the angel's visit with Mary. Jesus wasn't praying to himself -- he was praying to His Father.

Because of a man by the of name Arius, the Athanasian Creed was written. This creed was named after Athanasius who debated with Arius.

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

Athanasian Creed

Whoever will be saved shall, above all else,

hold the catholic* faith.

Which faith, except everyone keeps whole and undefiled,

without doubt he will perish eternally.

And the catholic faith is this,

that we worship one God in three persons

and three persons in one God,

neither confusing the persons

nor dividing the substance.

For there is one person of the Father,

another of the Son,

and another of the Holy Spirit.

But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one:

the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

The Father uncreated,

the Son uncreated,

and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

The Father incomprehensible,

the Son incomprehensible,

and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

The Father eternal,

the Son eternal,

and the Holy Spirit eternal.

And yet there are not three eternals

but one eternal.

As there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles

but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

So likewise the Father is almighty,

the Son almighty,

and the Holy Spirit almighty.

And yet they are not three almighties

but one almighty.

So the Father is God,

the Son is God,

and the Holy Spirit is God.

And yet there are not three gods;

but one God.

So likewise the Father is Lord,

the Son Lord,

and the Holy Spirit Lord.

And yet they are not three lords

but one Lord.

For as we are compelled by the Christian truth to acknowledge every person by himself

to be both God and Lord,

So we cannot by the catholic* faith

say that there are three Gods or three Lords.

The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created;

but begotten.

The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, neither made nor created nor begotten

but proceeding.

So there is one Father, not three Fathers;

one Son, not three Sons;

one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

And in this trinity none is before or after another;

none is greater or less than another;

But the whole three persons

are coeternal together and coequal,

so that in all things, as is aforesaid,

the Unity in Trinity

and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped,

He, therefore, that will be saved is compelled thus to think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation

that he also believe faithfully the incarnation

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the right faith is

that we believe and confess

that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God,

is God and man;

God of the substance of the Father,

begotten before the worlds;

and man of the substance of his mother,

born in the world;

Perfect God and perfect man,

of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

Equal to the Father as touching his Godhead,

and inferior to the Father as touching his manhood;

Who, although he is God and man,

yet he is not two but one Christ.

One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh,

but by taking the manhood into God;.

One altogether,

not by confusion of substance,

but by unity of person.

For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man,

so God and man is one Christ;

Who suffered for our salvation;

descended into hell;

rose again the third day from the dead.

He ascended into heaven;

he sits at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty,

from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead.

At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies

and will give an account of their own works.

And they that have done good will go into life everlasting;

and they that have done evil,

into everlasting fire.

This is the catholic faith which

except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

The word "catholic*" in this case does not refer to the Roman Catholic Church, it means the universal Christian faith.

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Still NO Answers?

Your "God" is suposed to be immortal.

1-If your Jesus is God,why he allow mortal to kill him on a cross?

2-So your "God" comited suicide?

3-So your "God" can be killed on a cross?

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GOSPEL OF JOHN 1:1-14;

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

COLOSSIANS 1:10-23;

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven;

PHILIPPIANS 2:6-11;

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Now on the lighter side of things, who other than God can forgive sins?

LUKE 5:17-26;

17 And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judaea, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them.

18 And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him.

19 And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus.

20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?

23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?

24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.

25 And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.

26 And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.

I believe that Jesus is God.

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Your "God" is suposed to be immortal.

If your Jesus is God,why he allow mortal to kill him on a cross?

So your "God" comited suicide?

So your "God" can be killed on a cross?

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If Jesus was God then we are all in big trouble , imagine god dying for a minute (not to mention three days), imagine the havoc Satan and the Devil could cause in a minute.

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Pretty much. Schizophrenia doesn't begin to cover it.

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Hey, you lost me , there.

So he prayed to himself, died for himself , and changed a set of laws and circumstances that he ordained for himself. emmm!

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It's only fair that he prayed to himself, afterall he did send himself to die (temporarily) as a sacrifice to himself to change a set of circumstances and laws that he ordained himself.

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If Jesus is God then who was he praying too , himself.

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@Tellyb.

There's no need to be rude. And please try not to make yourself sound silly in an attempt to appear smart- I can tell from your posts that you are a reasonable intelligent guy, but you risk labelling yourself otherwise if you jump to conclusions while accusing others of same.

1)

There's no such word as deconvert. Look it up in any dictionary. It is a word invented by religious extremists to somehow denigrate the choices of people who choose to convert from their own chosen religion. The correct word is convert. Using the word deconvert labels you as biased. I highlighted it for exactly that reason- had you chosen to look up the definition before responding to me you would have caught on and saved face.

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deconvert

2)

Since I have determined that you are quite intelligent, I will ignore the second response on the grounds that you are probably assuming that I was providing an analogue to *your* question, and not the OP. I am however interested in hearing your take on the OP, since it is in fact, the issue at hand.

3)

Grasping the issue is not the case. I was responding to the OP, not to you. I have a perfect grasp of whatever issue I choose to raise, thank you very much. At no point in my post did I specifically refer to you or your question. This thread *does* have a topic afterall.

4)

Contention is between OP and TellyB's question, not between two interpretations of tellyb's question. I highlighted both possible interpretations for the reason that you responded to in 5,

5)

Once again I will excuse this response. I'm assuming that once you re-read, you will come up with a different response.

**

I don't see why someone will be happy to discover that there are people who have no clue about what his concerns are, especially if those concerns are religious!

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@dakmanzero,

To convert from one's professed faith to a different one. Duh!

If it suits your ideology to parry it in such a simplistic manner, why the sweat to confuse yourself further? The debates and exchange of ideas between Muslims and Christians on the Forum is not that simplistic.

I wonder how you rushed into posting your previous one without first seeking to grasp the issues initially.

You read it that way; and now you find it is not!

This summation simply shows you have no clue about the issues here. And I would simply ask you to hold your breath and wait to see what this is all about.

I offer my posts to Muslims to help them go right back into their own books to see the issues they've been pretending do not exist. That is precisely what my question is all about; and those who have circumvented it in pretentious answers would be happy to note that people like you are simply oblivious to the core concerns being pursued here.

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@dakmanzero,

If that is how you read issues, you missed it by a million miles. The direct accusation that informs my question has to be examined; and the Muslim either proffers a direct answer as well, or continue to bask in the misreadings that are epitomized in your post.

The question has a basis. When an honest answer comes, you will see it.

Certainly, people who professed to have been Christians deconvert to Islam; yet the questions being asked by many have led them out of Islam and to the redemption found in Jesus Christ. Some of those questions are being discussed here, and people who can read issues well can see what they are all about.

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This question has no basis.

It only makes sense when you assume that Islam and christianity share a common context, which they do NOT.

Islam reasons within the contexts of the Quran and the Hadith

Christianity reasons within the contexts of the Bible and theological tradition (subject to sectarian variation)

Arguing will solve nothing, will simply cause more hate to be directed from both sides.

Instead of fitting square pegs in round holes, why not direct your ideologial debates at issues that affect our daily lives, in which a shared context can be found.

That way, if a Muslim were to convince a Christian that his religion has a better grasp on realistic issues, he may win a convert, and if a Christian were to convince a Muslim that his religion has a better grasp on realistic issues, he may win a convert also.

But saying 'My religion says Prophet Isa is NOT GOD! All who assocate human beings with God are commiting SHIRK!!!! BUUUUUURN~!!!!!!!' and raving 'Jesus is God the Son! Repent now or BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRNNN!!!!!!' is a wate of time because no-one is gaining anything.

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@muhsin,

I think that's a convenient way of saying: "I think babs787 has no answers!"

Please read the question again and then re-read babs' answer:

Question: "is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?"

babs: "We muslims do not worship Jesus and do not regard him as God."

Now muhsin, was I asking about what MUSLIMS do or not do about Jesus??

I would very much appreciate an honest answer from Muslims. If this question cannot be answered, then none of the questions posed by your Muslim apologists are worth reading.

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Telly B,

I think babs787 have answered your question, and answered it correctly. What more do you want? Lets be fair!

Thanks

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Can you please answer. Thanks.

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@Telly B

Ok, please answer my questions ooo

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@babs787,

If you don't have answers, move on. The games of "ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST" is for kids. Thanks.

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@Telly B

I will answer your question the way you want it but please answer my questions above

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@muhsin,

I'd very much appreciate an answer from you to my question:

Thanks.

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Some of your replies manifested the truth that some of you guys didn’t read my post/question and fathom it very well. However, I’d quoted some verses again like:

You have never heard His voice, nor seen His face (john 5:37)

No one can see me and stay alive (exodus 33:20)

No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him (1 timothy 6:16)

Didn’t the Jews at his time, his family and his followers SEE Jesus and HEAR his voice?

As you can figure out, all the aforementioned verses are talking about God.

Then who is who? Who really is that ONE God?

By the way, my fellow Christians, don’t, please I beg misunderstand my critics as some allready did. It’s in the Holy Bible I read a certain verse that makes me to stand up and look for the actual[b] fact [/b] about all that I’ve so far asked. i.e.: seek ye the truth, and the truth shall set you free (john 8:32).

…………waiting…….and God bless you.

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@topic,

May I ask Muslims who love Jesus Christ: is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?

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@ Babs787

I like how you're searching. Would you agree with me that Jesus is God or He is not? It has to be one of the two situations, correct?

If your search is genuine as I expect it is, then the truth will bear fruit. I desire to take a more conciliatory approach rather than have to insult and attack.

You may not be aware of it but the role of Sonship is something that Jesus took on. As you correctly implied, being a son would suggest that one is in a submissive role.

Is the sonship of Jesus the only reasoning you're going on to disprove Jesus' is God? 

Wouldn't the Deity of Jesus rests on whether or not He was created? If He weren't then how could He not be God, since only God alone is Creator and not a creature.

For us to view Jesus and to fully understand who He is, wouldn't we need to look at His pre-earthly existence using the bible to see what was said of Him before?

I am submitting to you that the Hebrews dealt directly with the Son. It was the Son who spoke to Moses in the burning bush. It was the Son who spoke to Abraham about the destruction of Sodom. It was the Son who dealt with the prophets of old. It was the Son who wrote the 10 commandments on ount Sinai.

I could go on,   

Bless.

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my dear it is obvious dat ur read Bible like novel or any other book. pray be4 reading d Bible 4 holy spirit 2 help u understand. if d reason u re reading d Bible is 2 proof wrong or as a critics, u wll see evidences 2 defend watsoeva u wnt 2. bt mind u, is inspired by God

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muhsin,

see the thread:

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.448.html#msg840687

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Seems you both are delusional. This topic has severally been dealt with here:

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.0.html

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Thats my worry too. They have been telling me that Jesus is God and I have been asking them questions on their sayings but rather than provide answers, they claimed that babs is deriding their faith. I wonder why would asking questions on someone doctrines turned to another thing. If they dont want questions to be asked, they should stop saying it rather being unable to defend same

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