«Home

Should Efcc Probe Churches?

SHOULD EFCC PROBE CHURCHES?

Dear Friends,

Lately, there has been clamour for EFCC to probe the activities of churches in Nigeria. Oa expected, tempers have been running high, with arguments for and against.

Just yesterday, the General Overseer of Foursquares Gospel Church, Rev.(Dr) Wilson Badejo, said the move is not most welcome.

Should the EFFC be allowed to beam its searchlights on churches, considering the sensitive nature of religion in Nigeria? What would this portend for the church? Will this move sanitise the churhces? Are there cases of corruption and money laundering in churches?

Fellow discussants, let us do justice to this volatile and crucial issue.

Avatar
Newbie
93 answers

Yes churches should be probed.Too much Robbery going on.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Seperation of state from religion is dangerous, because now criminals can even wash their dirty money at churches. The Efcc should probe churches

0
Avatar
Newbie

EFFC !

I think the body should first sanitise the entire corruption in government parastatas and private co/institutions before squadring their time and energy in Nigerian churches. There's high level of poverty in Nigeria and is simply caused by corruption and dishonesty in the society.

Church malpractises can be solved later.

0
Avatar
Newbie

They should start taxing all of them. Starting form the conglomerate churches.

0
Avatar
Newbie

There is corruption everywhere - if the government wants to clean up corruption, then no area should be left untouched. Is it in the Bible that churches should not be probed, what is the argument against EFCC beaming their searchlight on the church? If the church has nothing to hide, then no need to be jittery. Corruption is a crime, Murder is a crime, there is no small or big crime, crime is crime, if Murder is probable in the church, why should corruption, embezzlement and crimes like that go unprobed?

Nigerians are hypocrites - small time they say government is not doing anything to curb corruption, and then suddenly they want a section left out. The worst crimes you see in the secular world also exists in churches, so why should the church be left out?

0
Avatar
Newbie

The Churches in Nigeria are regulated by the Corporate Affairs Commission who registers them, they should activate their powers and regulate the financial accounts of all charitable organisations including churches. They should operate the same way the Charity Commission operates in the UK and it should not be left to the EFCC to do.

0
Avatar
Newbie

lol.

This is soooo funny,your dad is a real comedian lol.

I will definitely be quoting him.

0
Avatar
Newbie

That's true. I never figured out why church leaders will be living like kings while people in their congregation starves. I mean, we're meant to be Christians and I don't expect a pastor to be poor (God Forbid) but what will Jesus do?, Jesus will break bread with his followers and share the thing equally.

Like my dad says, how can a hungry man praise God?, When it's time to shout Halleluyah, he'll open his mouth and start yawning.

0
Avatar
Newbie

The word is tithes not tights.

0
Avatar
Newbie

In the west people pay their tax religously, but the average Nigerian will prefer to pay tights in church and evade tax. Given the religous complexity of the Nigerian state I dont think churches should pay tax to the state. But what the EFCC should do is to serve as a control check to churches to make sure the revenue genarated is being deployed to add value in the lives of members of the church.

Because many times in this country you see people skipping meals because they want to pay tights in church meanwhile the head of the church is living in afluence. That is exploitation by every standard whether he is a man of God or not.

0
Avatar
Newbie

To All,

Its very important to understand the functions of institutions of the state and that we are all subject to the rule of law.I've lived in Ireland for a few years now and this is how Churches are rated in Ireland.

1.Registered Charities.When a church is registered as a charity,it doesn't pay tax but must submit its Audited Accounts to Revenue Commision every year,if the government finds any strange deals going on,they would loose their Tax exempt status and someone would be going to jail.

2.Register as a Business,This the category where the Made In Nigeria Churches fall into,they still have submit Accounts and the end of the year to Revenue Commision every year.they get Tax relief for their trouble.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@TV01,

Looks like we finally have a topic to agree on.

0
Avatar
Newbie

That's not quite the point I was making.

Christians pay tax right?

Then come together, call themselves an organisation and claim the tax back. Why?

It's the state's way of making the church subject. The tax breaks come at a price, physically and spiritually.

It also raise questions about trust in our Lord if we look to the state for resourcing

What should happen is that Christians pay tax - and then dispose of their money as they choose, and it's no concern of the state. We don't need Ceasars tax breaks. The state funding is a sly way of making the church subject. We are subject only to the Lord, our Head & Husband.

Neither is the church an organisation (corporation, registered charity, legal entity etc etc).

We are the body of Christ and should in no way be yoked to the state. One of the big pointers to false religion is any kind of alliance with the state.

Nigeria's case is somewhat different. As I don't believe the churches get tax breaks or register as companies. As such they are not tied to the State. But that doesn't give them leave to break the law (ill-gotten gains as tithes/offerings).

God bless.

0
Avatar
Newbie

I said CHURCHES were tax exempt not christians.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Yes and no, right and wrong (methinks anyway).

If members of a church pay their taxes, they are free to dispose of their earnings as they see fit. Like any other member of society. Having rendered unto Ceasar what is his. Disposal of legally acquired funds ceases to be any of the states concern.

If however a church yokes itself to Ceasar (by registering as a charity, incorporating as a business, or otherwise assuming a status that is sanctioned by and thus subject to the state), that puts a different hue on things.

Businesses and charities are subject to Ceasar, it's why they could ride roughshod into KICC and do pretty much as they pleased. Although a "registered charity" buying an 80 grand chariot for a pastor is government business. If a group of believers decide to do the same it's between them & God. Not that I am suggesting that it's a good idea, I am just making the point that, if you yoke yourself to Ceasar, he will deal with you on his terms

No, Christians are not tax exempt. By (counter-intuitively & contra scripturally) registering/incorporating, they are after Ceasars coin. All we need do is trust God with what we have and to supply what we need.

In whatever guise, how can the aim of Church be profit?

God bless

0
Avatar
Newbie

Churches ad religious organisations are tax exempt.

They are non profit.

0
Avatar
Newbie

I think that EFCC should probe churches because of the way they are managed,finance and run at times are not really transperant.It should be noted that most religous if not all religous instituition in Nigeria do not pay any form of tax even though they handle a lot of monies which they do not account for

0
Avatar
Newbie

If the church, mosque or shrine of worship is clean, I see no chaos and unrest at all.

0
Avatar
Newbie

A lot of people are just trying to derail the topic by insinuating things that some of us meant.

Let it be clear that EFCC, as used in this discussion represents the State. In other words, any other organ of the State charged with a particular function should be able to extend its tentacles to the church when there is an obvious reason to do so. The Pollice force for instance can come into the Church if there is a case of lawlessness and disregard for law and order within the church. EFCC is a special body set up by the Government to deal with financial crimes, and as long as the Church is within the State, then it must be subject to the law of that State. It will only be out of place for EFCC (an organ of the Nigerian State) to investigate the Church in Togo, for instance.

0
Avatar
Newbie

I have never sought personal recognition, veneration or glory. But I believe I am in good company.

Philippians 2:7 - but made Himself of no reputation,

0
Avatar
Newbie

I lost all respect for you when you said that tithe isn't biblical. Reputation down the drain!

0
Avatar
Newbie

In the ral sense of it, why would one want to go into the church for probe. Nigeria is a religious country, sensitive and fragile, so any concerning religion has to be handled cautious.

Inviting EFCC or ICPC in to the church, mosque or shrine of worship of traditional gods is inviting chaos and unrest.

I hereby declare the involvement of EFCC in the church illegal and unconstitutional.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Donzman is a lot closer to the mark than one might think.

The "True Church" is neither a State Institution, or a public corporation, and hence not "subject" to the state (Although it must not contravene the laws of the land, a properly functioning/structured church will never do so).

The crux is that (in the west anyway) most churches are usually (i) incorporated, or (ii) registered as charities, or (iii) simply run as businesses. Adopting one of these forms legally yokes the churches to the government and make them subject to it.

In Nigeria I don't believe such is the case. However, since many have been deceived and subscribe to the unbiblical notions of (i) the tithe, and (ii) the non-accountability of their so called MOGS {we give, what he/she does with it is between he/she and God}, abuse is rife, visibly so.

So back to Donzmans point, "The church members" are usually in no position to deal with financial mismanagement, as they are ignorant of the facts. About how to give, who to give to and what to give for, hence the rampant misappropriation of "church" funds. For the most part, they have been mis-sold the gospel, especially regards giving.

A fundamentally flawed structure gives rise to abuse. Get the understanding and format right and it would simply disappear or be much be much better managed when it did occur.

God bless

0
Avatar
Newbie

Let church members deal with financial mismanagement in their church, it is none of EFCC's business. Church isn't a state institution and neither is it a public corporation, EFCC has no juridisction over it just like they have no say as to what some Igbo trader does with his business.

0
Avatar
Newbie

The EFCC investigates financial crimes but there really isn't financial crimes in a church. Most of the people who give, give to God. You want EFCC to come and prove that the money didn't get to God?

0
Avatar
Newbie

If there are no financial crimes in the church, I don't think the EFCC would be contemplating on probing them.  Besides, it is the mismanagement of church funds and other related dubious activities that is being talked about; not those who willingly 'give to God'.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Remember EFCC is the acronym for Economic and Financial Crimes Commission. When there are Financial crimes in a church, I see no reason why EFCC shouldn't dig into their treasury.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Ofcourse they should be subject to the rule of law, anyone that says otherwise is nuts.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Responses on this thread have proven otherwise.  Most people here are not even talking about the EFCC any longer.  Their own is just that churches should never be probed for whatever reasons.

Uche2nna, you spoke my mind.

0
Avatar
Newbie

I do not like reacting to any comments that has religious connotations but this one has caught my attention.Initially it sounded funny to me but on closer scrutiny I noticed that this was some serious poo here.The church is a sacred institution and should be held as such but if anything happens otherwise then I would have to blame the church authorities.My point is that I do not subscribe to the fact that EFCC shd take thier "nation cleansing" operation into the church but if they do I will not blame them either.I will blame the church authorities for giving them a reason to.Let them respect themselves and I believe that EFCC will respect themselves.

0
Avatar
Newbie

You are changing the topic. plz read the title of the thred again.

0
Avatar
Newbie

The debate has moved on somewhat. It's not necessarily about the EFCC, but whether Church Organisations should be subject to the rule of law.

0
Avatar
Newbie

in that case, EFCC should perform its civic duty and without special interest.

if you are abreast on the happening in the country, Rev. King is still in detention for manslaugter not by EFCC but the police. If the the former should start taking issues like that up then the latter is would loose its trust in the masses.

0
Avatar
Newbie

or causes grievous bodily harm to his followers nko? or murders members of his congregation nko??

0
Avatar
Newbie

And what if a 'pastor' embezzles money or allows some 419 guy to use his church for money laundering nko?

0
Avatar
Newbie

EFCC is just a body not an institution like the police. if a pastor commits molest or other crime let the police take that up according to the civil law.

0
Avatar
Newbie

I mentioned that as an example of a crime, which crazykid has declared to be judged by God alone.

0
Avatar
Newbie

molest has nothing to do with EFCC. EFCC is not the police!

0
Avatar
Newbie

let God be the judge of that.

0
Avatar
Newbie

some are business ventures

0
Avatar
Newbie

crazykid, you seem to forget that not all "churches" are really churches.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Hi Crazykid - God doesn't have a house (not a physical one built with hands anyways).

0
Avatar
Newbie

The rate at which we humans now take God's house, is very bad

the church is the house of God. so everything do in there, is done in accordance to the will of God.

so i don't see why some so called E.F.C.C of whatever their name is, should even think of probing churches.

if they are making irrelevant claims that the finical  standard of most churches is incresing rapidly, then i'd rather refer to it as a miracle and not corruption.

THEY SHOULD RESPECT GOD'S HOUSE

0
Avatar
Newbie

The true Church of Christ cannot be probed by any government. However, the institutional

man-made imposter will always be the State's 'ho!

God bless

0
Avatar
Newbie

The Hell Noooo -----is why shld EFCC go asking Qs in CHURCH?

0
Avatar
Newbie

This isn't about whether churches should be investigated for financial misappropriations, it is whether EFCC has the right to investigate churches. From their website(http://www.efccnigeria.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=91&Itemid=90), they have no right to investigate churches. That may be the task of another branch of the judiciary, we Nigerians need to recognize the difference between all of these law enforcement agencies. Police shouldn't be doing what army should be doing, EFCC shouldn't be doing things outside of it's juridisction and mandate. It will result in abuse of power and probably overwhelming the EFCC itself.

0
Avatar
Newbie

hELL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

0
Avatar
Newbie
Your answer
Add image

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.