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Soul & Spirit - Whats the difference?

I know man is a tri-partite being. He is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body (my opinion) but I'll like to know what u feel about this topic.

Is the soul the mind? Is the spirit the soul?

Whats the difference between the human soul and the human spirit.

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@ poster

first of all we are all souls created in the image and likeness of God. Soul is an individualized unit of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the essence of God, the life force that animates all things. Soul on coming down to the physical plane passes through the etheric, mental, causal and astral planes. so soul puts on the etheric, mental, causal, astral and physical bodies in order to experience life in the physical plane.

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^^^^^ Real man seen, physical is SPIRIT? No wonder everyone who dies, it was the spirit that dies. I am amused. But I learned from Joe, already.

Pastor Oluwo apeno oja; here is your mate in belief; Disbelievers, both of you are.

I will leave you guys alone to fraternize.

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The spirit is the real man. The soul is the realm if his feelings and emotions

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Surah Araf [Chapter 7] Verse 23 uses a derivative of nafs {anfusana}in the repentance prayer of Adam and Eve. Note that they didn't say Spirit. You will agree, pastoraio that there is no way that they will be saying Soul, unless it is the same as the Ruh [Spirit] that was breathed into Adam; They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged our souls [ourselves], and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."

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Since Adam [as] was not mentioned to have a soul go into him, but only the spirit went into him, I wonder why it was the soul of man taste death? we must have to accept that soul of man is spirit of man before the spirit enters the body of man. read about the oath swore to my man confirming that God is his Lord.

So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him. Quran; 15 verse 29.

Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His Spirit; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks give ye! Quran: 32 verse 9

"[b]Every soul [/b]shall have taste of death; In the end to us shall ye be brought back .(Surah Al-'Ankabut The Spider 29:57)

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^^^ So let me ask you mr. egunjobi or you prefer osonyinjobi [awojobi has been taken by the professor], could you tell me if soul was breathe into Adam or it was spirit?

Read that portion of the Quran where the creation of Adam is discussed.

Then go to his children as see that all was mentioned about them is soul.

Then think a little bit harder than usual. Find for yourself matters concerning the issue of Spirit that was breathe into Adam and then the Soul that his children have.

What do you think?

Did Adam have Soul or Spirit?

Do the Children of Adam have Spirit or Soul?

Which one of them as a group has something more than the other?

Where is the soul of Adam when Spirit was the only thing breathed into him?

Where is the spirit of the children of Adam when all they have is soul?

Can you finally realize that Soul in the children of Adam is the same as the Spirit in their father, Adam?

When you approached a man who knew something, but didnt know enough about Soul being Spirit, you will have this wrong opinion, just like the Christians.

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I believe that it might have been during the course of this thread that I started to take the muslims on this board as fake assed posturers. I brought references from eminent islamic scholars saying that Ruh and Nafs only got equated at a latter stage after the koran. Not a single one could quote quran for me on any of the issues raised here. All they could do is spout some baseless theologising.

If one doesn't know something it is not a crime. All you have to do is say, 'i don't know'. Nobody will bite your head off.

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it is interesting that Adam [as] the first man was activated to the living man by the Quran saying that spirit was breathed into Adam. The Bible also say something similar. we must note that the process of the breath into was not explained. i am very sure that no one thinks that God held Adam and physically breathed into him. that will be work and God from Islamic perspective does no work, but commands everything into being or take place.

no one will say that soul was mentioned in the above process.

however, in the Quran, Allah says the souls of the children of Adam was removed from Adam into an assembly, where they were all asked by Him 'Am I not your Lord?'. they answered in one voice to affirm it.

in the Quran it is stated that whoever does good, it is for his own soul, and whoever does evil it is for his own soul.

we should note that creation of Adam took place in heaven, hence spirit is used. but when t comes to the existence of the children of Adam, souls are mentioned. but the creation of the children of Adam are not in heaven but on earth.

if no soul is mentioned about creation of Adam, but only in the creation of his child, soul must be spirit, in this case, since Adam has 2 parts, there is no possibility for his child to have 3 parts 1 more than him, since the 2 parts that Adam had was enough for him to exist first in heaven and later on earth, 2 part must be enough for his child to exist, too on earth, the only place they needed to exist before death and recreation of all for Judgment Day.

i will call the attention to the living body of Adam because the 'spirit' was breathed to it, is the same body that was lifeless as a shaped clay. in the case of the living offspring of Adam, apart from Eve who was from a piece of Adam, everyone else started out as an internal thing developing inside mother, 'body' that started out from something simple and small and not easily visible to Unclad eye, then ever changing from one stage to another, and getting bigger until it becomes full baby human. inside the mother, there is a point that what is similar to spirit that was only needed to make Adam came alive, will also happen to the developing thing, fetus inside the mother. this thing can't have a different nature from that spirit that jump started Adam. we do know this is called 'soul', that is always in the first trimester and not after 4 months that the pastoraio said he heard. i believe you heard wrongly and when people from indian subcontinent rock head sideways, they are saying yes, instead of your nodding your head up and down.

can children of Adam have more parts than Adam?

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Na wa o. This section is sorely missing quality posts by people like Krayola.

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krayola was right about words meaning different things to different people at different times. And when a text is kept for centuries then the words used in that text, though they meant something else originally, would be applied to something new. That is the way that religious thought keeps evolving.

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I think meanings evolve and words mean different things to different people at different times. That's just the nature of language. Words do not inherently mean anything. . . they mean stuff based on "agreement" between a group of people. If one looks through the bible (chronologically- as in when what was written and not where it appears in the bible) and the context in which those words were used, one should expect to notice changing/evolving meaning.

For example, earlier in Jewish thought, "soul"/"spirit" was, I think, understood as the "animative" force of the body (breath, blood. .  stuff like that. .). That it was a separate entity with a "life and existence" of it's own isn't something I'm aware of that was believed in ancient pre-exile Israel/judah (the body was believed to be vital/"sacred" and even the first Jewish ideas of the afterlife were physical. . e.g The resurrection of the body). . The idea of an eternal soul independent of the body was most likely a Greek idea that , over time, developed to be the generally accepted use/meaning of the word.

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@Pastor AIO: OKare. Gbere. Omo Oduduwa. I have a throw back on the Alawiye and the Awo Rerin era.

Nigeria should copy from the west in what the west have done in goodness.

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In Las Vegas, thanks to modern technology they have found a way to bring the water to the desert. Trust me, humans cannot settle anywhere where there is no access to fresh water. God did not miraculously supply las vegas with water. Humans transported the water there. In the past there have been cities in the desert but they have all either been situated on an oasis or an underground stream flowed close enough to the surface for them to dig a well and access it.

This is totally off the topic, I know, but I'm feeling in a petty mood today.

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@Pastor:

Not everything about Islam is in the AlQur'an, in full details. The explainer of this Noble Book, is the Prophet (AS). God sent the Book and sent the explainer with it. He was waiting already as a matured man for it. No one explains the AlQur'an unless their own fountain of explanation is the prophet, the source among mankind. And when you said to the Imam, nafs as the characteristics, a single word. He did not want to give you a yes, because it is more than characteristics, alone. And what you meant, anyhow by characteristics is only your own knowledge. He would give you a ton of information about nafs, if it was time permissible for both of you. But you could have said of Ruuh as breath or Spirit of life. He would have said yes, rather than when you said breath alone. And I will shock you here and now; when God said He breath His Spirit to Adam, it should not be considered as when a person breath into a person to ressucitate him. God is Holier than that. he has power of command. He says that he comands Adam to Be, so Adam was!

The reason that I even responded to this thread is when the people began to say that human is made of three elements; each separate. And in honesty, they did not say each is coequal. But they brought the three as separate making up the human a a means of fostering their agenda. It is then that I thought it is best that i let them know, by Allah's permission that Ruuh and Nafs are the same. And truly man is a mixture of its seen (physical form;body) and the Unseen (the unformed or without shape form; Nafs/Ruuh).

Am sure you are familar with the term first trimester in pregnancy? 4 months is after that, whereby any one who performs an abortion of that feotus, the right to lifers always say that its like killing the person. Moreover its very complicated at this time than if the abortion is done much earlier, in the pregnancy. Disclaimer: I am not advocating any one performing abortion. I am just expalining the feotal condition, with before and when/after the Ruuh is brought into the womb.

His advice is very sound. What is the benefit of all of the knowledge, if you reject the central theme that the whole knowledge is much much secondary to? Your superior knowledge can not mean anything in the day of Judgement, if the belief in One god is not sound and correct. Yet the least knowledgeable and weak person who belief in One god in a very sound and correct way, will receive mercy of god and be entered into His Garden.

But if you have all the knowledge and do not fear the punishment of God which He will carry out by the fire of hell, and at the same time long and hope for His mercy and forgiveness by which He will show by ransoming one with a place in paradise, then will lack of understanding oneself and the motivations that drives one be an excuse with with God, if one is thrown in Fire and will it be also a reason to say one deserve the rewards in paradise if one ends up in it? Neither position can be attached to what you need to know first before Understanding God and the your obligations to Him. God says that He did not creat us except to worship Him. This is the purpose of life. It is the Core single purpose. The verse following this statement from God, is followed by His saying that all sustenance he has provided and it is up to him alone.

Am sure that you have heard that Prophet Joseph was very pretty. His physical beauty was what attracted the wife of his master to want to have sex with him. It was his pure Ruuh/Nafs that stopped him from going for it.

I pray that what we say to each other will benefit us. I pray that God forgives us our misdeeds and bad speech. I pray that God softens our hearts to receive guidance from Him. I pray that He has mercy on us and forgives us our sins.

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An unattractive personality does not translate to an 'unattractive body' in that sense because the attractiveness of the body is just a matter of taste.  But whatever occurs in the anima will have a correspondence in the body, human aesthetic judgements like pretty or ugly are not the issue.  Contained in the Anima is the entire process from birth to old age.  Growing old is not a process divorced from the Anima.  Growth and decay are expressions of Anima.

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@Pastor AIO:

My esteemed brother, I like your style. I have no fear of anyone, but God Almighty, alone. I pray it remains that way. And I was not going to talk about trinity, since I aluded to discouraging the would be proponent not to even try to use my argument, which I left somewhat inconclusive, to be used to proof it. And we need to bare in mind that it is not in all cases that a conclusion is already formed that integrity is thrown away, in order to argue for what is obvious. If a point is clear, and it is stated as such, whereby it becomes the focus of debates, one needs to be sincere in speech for the discussion to be a good debate. One is important in argument is truth about a subject. One should present the truth, sincerely and with honesty as much as one knows it. But the truth is the truth. Absolute truth is absolute. there is no other way to express it.

But this argument about water and human settlement will actually be not always the norm. For right here in the USA, we have a city call Las Vegas, without any water source at all. Yet, in the middle of the desert, is where this city of several millions is situated. All the water that they use in this city, is not from a source that was indigenous to it. Well, you dont want meto tell you about many more cities that are in desert now? But in all your argument, you started with Flesh and Spirit, but I did not see where you spoke about Flesh and Nafs, just as boldly. What you have done was exactly what i said before; Spirit and amina/Naf are the same. You can not really have one without the other. It is the Spirit/Soul that its dominating in the Spiritual way, whreby it is the extension part of it, Nafs that is the anima of man.

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I agree that they are inseparable in an individual. But this includes the body also. I've just realised something. What we are arguing is not whether they are separate entities, but rather the distinction lies in their function. There is a yoruba saying: ise meta ni omo ori odo n se. A pestle has three function. It is a pounder for making pounded yam. It is a barricade for securing the door. and it is a grinder for grinding vegetables. Do these 3 functions make it three separate objects? No. So when people complain that their Ori is not good they are told that it is the same Ori that they picked from the same place as everybody else. Yet the manifestation of it differs in each individual. That manifestation called Iwa which can be translated as character and also state of being.

Ise meta ni omori odo nse

A pestle can be applied to 3 tasks

Won a f'ori re gun'yan

The head is used to pound yam

Won a f'idi re gun elu

It's base can be used to grind herbs

Won a fi agbedemeji re ti ilekun dain dain dain

It's middle part can be used to barricade the doors firmly

Thus was declared to Oriseku (the non-starter, or the defective ori) child of Ogun

Thus was declared to Ilemere (the short-lived) child of Ija

Thus was declared to Afuwape (the fulfilled destiny) child of Agbonmiregun

They went to the home of Ajalamopin to each pick themselves an Ori (destiny)

They were prescribed Ebo.

Only Afuwape tarried to comply.

Lament: "If I had known where successful people choose their Ori (destinies) that is where I would have gone to pick mine.

If I'd known where Afuwape choose his destiny from that is where I would have gone to choose mine."

Response: All Ori (destiny) is chosen at the same place, yet they unfold differently for different individuals.

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@Pastor AIO:

But the food of the Ruuh is good healthy Spirituality. Atheists claim that they have spirituality, except that they do not believe that something is the Creator and OverLord/God over them. he Nafs is the active part of the thing that I call Ruuh/Nafs combination in a man that is alive, barring his religiousity, or expression of Spirituality. A religious person is often termed a spiritual person. You will also know that a person may be bubbly in personality, expressing some enviable anima, but without any religiousity, yet he may be referred as a lively person. Hence, you will see that Ruuh and Nafs are two different sides of the same Coin. You can not have have one without the other. Both have to be present for the body to b alive, just both sides of the coin have to be present, for it to be a means of change for goods and services.

But a sleeping man tosses and turns. Breaths and even the eye moves rapidly, in REM state. He remain active as adequately as his sleeping condition calls for. Some people talk in their sleep. Some even scream because of bad dream. We have heard of people who slap or strick the person sleeping next to them. Some people sleep walk. Some will even drive to the store and come back, all though in a sleeping state. What I have have tried to do is to make you or anybody admit that nobody will be alive if truly the Ruuh is removed. But you have also proven that the Ruuh is also Nafs, in an earlier presentation. Atleast here you have indicated that they will be inseparable from each other in a combination with the physical body when a man is still living. But you have not proven that they are two different things, like water and soil. Although we see them to be the admixture needed to make the physical body of man. but regardless they were separate before they were combined. This is what you can not proof in man. We see where you and me agree that Spirit was breath or blown into man/mud for it to be alive. How did Nafs comes to the body, except that it is an accompanying component in the Spirit, when it is blown into the body?

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I have just returned from the Al-muntada Alislami mosque down the road. I went for a chat. What ensued only further confounded the issue. First I spoke to a guy who said difference of opinion is natural as we all have different perspectives. But his perspective was so much more different from any I'd heard before. He said Nafs was the consciousness. He had no idea what I was talking about when I said that Nafs can mislead you and deviate from Ruuh. When I asked if the Ruuh inspires to truth and leads to righteousness he looked even more perplexed. It was around this point he told me to wait and he went to get the Imam.

When the Imam came he explained, not from the Koran but from someone who he called the eminent commentator on koran and hadith. I can't recall the name, it was a long arabic name. He said that Nafs is what drives the body, I asked,"do you mean the characteristics?" he inclined his head left and right in a comme ci comme ca way and said sort off. He then said Ruuh was the fuel of the body. Like a machine. You have a car, the body, the driver is the Nafs and the fuel inside is the Ruuh. I suggested Ruuh was breath and he responded that what did I mean by breath. I said breath. He said well people understand different things and have different connotations from breath so he needed to know what I meant. In other words that was left unanswered. Anyway he said that the engine can't run without fuel and so it is with the body without ruuh.

Another very interesting thing he said was that when the embryo is formed in the womb, after 4months God then sends the Ruuh into the body and that is when the foetus becomes a living soul. 4 months!, I thought, but I did not say anything.

To conclude he advised me that there are more central things to Isla.m than Nafs and Ruuh and told me about the 5 pillars. He said that the important thing was to be aware that God is One and to worship this One God. Nafs and Ruuh though important are incidental to the main point.

I find that hard to accept because I cannot think of anything more important than understanding oneself and the motivations that drive one, especially if they are capable of driving you either to paradise or hell.

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@Pastor AIO:

It seems to me that you are saying neither is more important than the other in the keeping of the Physical body in a stage that one say that he is still a living being. Calling him by his name instead of being called just a body. You do know that when a person dies, they just call him body but not his name? I am saying on the other hand that Nafs, is the same as Ruuh. When Ruuh enters the body, it becomes Nafs, because until that time there was no Nafs. And I also say to you that when a person is dying and death is occuring, the Nafs is returning back to being Ruuh. Death or withdrawal of the Soul/Spirit, whereby the body becomes lifeless, starts from the toes/feet of the dying man, going up until the death is complete. The body gets cold, and it is the feet that gets cold first, because the soul/spirit/life is leaving the body. Spirit/Ruuh is the Spiritual as in religiousity part of the person. The reason is that it has in the time of it being removed from the body of Father Adam, since this is the true father we can claim, while God is our Creator and Adam's Creator, the Spirit of man had confessed or declared in an oath that it is God that its Lord. Hence, the spirit of those who have warped belief about God the Lord whom it had in the beginning confessed or declared His Lord are demostrating bad spirituality.

Let me make it alot simple about soul/spirit: God says that we are created from dirt. Since Adam is Our father, we must have come from the same materials that he came from. Adam had all the elements that we have, but he is not dirt, in the physical similarity because the dirt became flesh, blood, bone, etc as the Spirit was blown/breath into him. Same is Nafs and Ruuh. (When we die, don't we go back to being dirt?). And we also know that a person can be brain dead, without any personality anymore, the anima. He may be kept alive by the aid of machine, keeping his blood still circulating in his body, with oxygen to keep the organs/cells alive. But when death is to occur, the brain wave will register a bit of activity and then flattens out as the death is complete.

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@PastorAIO:

My question was about 3 elements: Body/Flesh, Nafs and Ruuh. If body/flesh is to be alive, between Ruuh and Nafs, which one must be kept house in the body, if it is possible to lose the other one, or render it unimportant. Or for a body/flesh to die off and be ready for burial or cremation as is done by Hindus, or for it to be rendered no longer with us, which of the two, between Nafs and Ruuh that needs to go? You are treating Spirit/Ruuh alone with the Body. I hope you will treat Nafs with the Body somewhere along the line.

There is no way you can argue that Flesh is not the physical mass that is part of the total boy, consisting of Flesh, Bone and Blood for the most part. I am not detailing the skin, hairs and nail, because you do know they part of the body. And your anima issue reminded me of Shakespear's The Marchant of Venice, two popular sentences: The fisrt was made when the Marchant was detailing his gluttonic demands, if the debtor did not pay him back on time. Shylock was his name. He was going to carve out a pound of flesh from the body of the Creditor. But the defense, did not object, except that it only have to be just that without any drop of blood. Except that they knew that Shylock was going to be brutal in his action, by his wanting a piece of flesh from a debtor, that they were certain that his action will be fatal to the life of the debtor. You see amina and flesh are not the same thing. The emotional quality or personality of the person may be what the anima may be part of.

Except that Physical body is always there, from birth. In fact it is the physical body that starts first, exactly at the point of where and when the sperm and egg becomes that element that develops to a human baby. The anima, as you say, personality develops later. But a film spool in a projector that is not turned on will not be a projection of the film on the screen. You have to turn the projector on with the film on it and with proper screen to make the projection visible for the eye to see it. The film can not be seen with regular sight without it being projected as a projection on the screen. It is when you make the film active for normal eye to see it, that we see what the film houses.

But it is the anima that is the inner person. The one that is the personality of the person. The body houses it. It is the physical that let us know, as the symptom of the anima that is inside, which can not be seen with the Unclad eye. A person who gets old, though the body is breaking apart, rather shows sign of age, will still have the same personality/anima. But if his anima is unattractive as obnoxious, rude, etc, though he may projects it it still will not make him bodily unacttractive or rude to the sight, if he is a handsome person, physically.

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Flesh and Spirit! Let me explain it. By Flesh I do not just mean the material physical mass. Flesh includes the anima. In fact the physical body is no more than a projection of the anima. Like when you put a film into a projector and you get an image on the screen. Whatever happens to the film in the projector will be projected onto the screen. The projection and the film are one yet they are in different positions. The film is in the projector and the image is on the screen. What ever happens to the anima will be reflected on the body. When stirred the body will stir, when dulled the body will be dull, when the anima desires to go forth and follows the impulse, the body will go forth. The anima is what animates and projects the form of the body. Nothing happens to the body that does not first happen to the anima. And some have argued that everything ascribed to the anima can be explained by looking at the body's neurology.

You asked the question which part must be removed for the organism to be dead. The life of the organism comes from the interaction of these three parts. You can not remove any part from the other and still have a living person. If the Anima ceases to project into materiality then the body will decay and die. Also the Spirit gives life to the whole. Ultimately in this world all things are One, but experienced as a myriad diversities. I see Nafs as having a closer connection to flesh than to Spirit.

Even in the Atheist the Ruuh is active, otherwise how could they still be alive. It is only that it is still in foetal form. However it is possible that with the minimal influence of Ruuh(just enough to keep him alive) a man can still go around walking and talking and seeming intelligent when in fact he is no more than an AI. While this is not quite separation of the Ruuh from the body, still you see that the Ruuh's influence is very minimal.

Yet when you minimalise the influence of the Nafs you get immobility. A sleeping man or a man experiencing an OBE (out of body experience) is still alive but his Anima is withdrawn from the physical world and the use of his physical senses. Someone can even become clinically dead by the reduction of Nafs influence. So you see the three (Ruuh, Nafs and body which is a projection of nafs) are inseparably linked to the life of the individual.

Sir, I do not quite understand your fear of people claiming trinity, but this argument has nothing to do with Trinity and I wasn't going to go there so let us proceed in truth and integrity and not twist arguments for fear of what conclusion it might lead to. This is a very important point because it is the cause of so many errors. One cannot follow an argument with integrity when he already has the conclusion in his mind. He will try to bend the argument in order to make it get to the conclusion. The proper way to proceed is to just follow the argument to wherever it leads.

|This reminds me of the argument of an old medieval christian Theologian. He was trying to demonstrate the mercy of God and how well God thinks of us. He say for example that wherever Human beings have raised towns and set up habitation that God is so merciful that he sends them a source of fresh water in the form of a river or a lake. How ridiculous! Is it not in fact the case that wherever there is a source of fresh water that human beings will go and settle there. The water is there before the humans not vice versa. But that is what happens when you have a conclusion even before you started pursuing an argument.

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@kola Oloye

My Beloved Brother What the bible says is that the spirit quickens the soul and without the soul you have a dead body.

The natural spirit of man is evil all it can do is to perpertuate sin because of the adamic nature. The spirit of man makes the body alive to sin. However the Spirit of God the pure one will quicken you to righteousness.

The confusion how is that when a righteous man dies where does his spirit soul and body go. By scripture we see every soul that sinneth shall die.

The other part of that scripture is "the gift of God is Zoe"

Remember when Adam sinned God prevented them from eating another fruit.

Remember also that man became a living soul when God shared his Zoe with Man.GENESIS.

If we look scientifically THE BODY CANNOT DIE

already by the word of God the SOUL AND SPIRIT CANNOT DIE.

NB:

Just by one cell DNA from your body can make a new you.

So if the soul cannot die why did the bible say that the soul that sinneth shall die?

The problem is that the use of "die" there in that verse is what confuses many. The Soul is cut off from the Eternal life called Zoe. That is why if a man is found with the spirit of man alone that God borrowed man he is condemned to Hell fire. Even if man is Moral by his ownself.

The soul is where you have senses and that is why in hell we still see The Rich man asking Lazarus to give him water.

SPIRITUAL DEATH IS LIFE WITHOUT ETERNAL LIFE.

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with the above statements you are very correct,am with you.

In my previous post i was trying to explain that SPIRIT is the main man in the sense that you can only communicate

with the heavens with your spirit,your soul and body are there for you to encapsulate the spirit. Each of them is

important but the spirit is what the soul and body are working for.

When someone dies, the body and soul have no place in heaven but the spirit must return back to the origin.

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@Pastor:

Angel Gabreil did not inspire the prophet, as you normally say in the Bible. Gabreil delivered Messages, Instructions, Commandments, all from God to Mu.hammad. Gibreil does not go about of its own accord. no sir. And M.uhammad was not an incarnation of Gabreil. Muha.mmad was from the nation of man, created from the body of Adam. The Angel, Gibreil being from them is created from Light. See dirt which man was created from is different from light which Angel is created from. There is no way you could talk about incarnation here. Their natures, hence their spirits are different.

Ruuh/spirit already acknowledged the Lordship of God. Hence, people know in their core when they deny the truth about God and His commandments. Hence a person who is doing evil knows that somehow, there is impurity of action being taken by him. The Ruuh pure condition is masked and suppressed by the personal choice.

We are unmasking the Fitra (what the soul/spirit is about; purity), while we are trying to dump the things that are evil, personal choice, which were deviations from what the Ruuh has declared in its pure state in heaven.

First God will recreate us in whole, for Judgement. Please check it out in the AlQur'an. People in paradise will recognise one another. The people in Hellfire will also recognise one another. If this is the case, then know that humans will be raised up intact.

Yet from "What do you think about this Bible Verse," thread, its seemed to me that you did not only state that Spirit exist in man, but Soul and Spirit are the same thing. I asked a question the other time about soul and spirit. I may just ask you about it here and now; Please tell me which one of the two that will be removed or missing in man, that will make the man not alive, but death, between Soul and Spirit? Just one, Ruuh or Nafs? You will see that the two are the same of different form. But please note that these are created things, because somebody may want to use it to argue trinity. It will not work.

You disagreement is of your own nafs, truly disagreeing with your Ruuh, which has been made dormant to truth. But truth still remains to be discovered by you, which will make your Soul active to it.

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Yes, but there are certain things I'm still compelled to ask.  If the Ruuh is equal to Nafs, and the Ruuh that inspired Mohammed is Gabriel then that means Mohammed was the incarnation of Angel Gabriel?

If Nafs can err from truth that would mean that Ruuh errs from truth?  

When we jihad against nafs are we fighting ruuh too?

If Nafs is the product of Ruuh and jism then how can nafs be judged in the final when Jism no longer exists?

When I point out Christ's distinction between flesh and spirit the Flesh in this case is not dead matter but it has it's tendencies, it is [b]anima[/b]ted.  It has an Anima or Nafs.  It's tendencies veer away from the truth of spirit but we need to bring it back and realign it to the spirit.   Until they are thus aligned I cannot accept that they are the same thing. An errant Nafs cannot be the same as Ruuh, because Ruuh cannot be anything but blessed.  Besides While the Nafs is still in operation the Ruuh can be awakened (born again) so we have these two tendencies operating in us at the same time.  The Blessed and the accursed.  They are experienced as two separate things within one individual, how can they be the same thing?

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@Kola oloye

you said

This is a wrong doctrine my friend.

The Soul is not superior to the breath (the spirit of man) the body is not less important.

This is the mirror of what the Godhead is about.

you cant have man without anyone of the three as trinity the three must agree to have a complete man.

The 3 are distinct and yet equal and none is greater.

The soul can be living and dead

The body can be living and dead Also

The Spirit can be Living and dead.

The soul is situates all the 5 senses of man

The body houses the soul

The Spirit is the breath of GOD( this has however has been contaminated with root sin)

We need the H.GHOST to quicken us so that we can has the Zoe of God because the Life of God is the Breath of God but we must use every breath for his glory and we cant do it without the MOST HIGH GOD CALLED THE HOLY GHOST.

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@Pastor AIO: I lifted part of your writing from the thread "What do you think about this Bible Verse," to illustrate our mustual dialogue about "Spirit," of man.

I am sure that you know that Spirit is in man/as Ruuh or Soul (naf, when a man is alive)!

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The spirit is the actual man. It is a specie that originated from the spiritual plane and it has its spiritual organs. When this spirit is clothed in other bodies that are neither physical nor spiritual, the spirit is called the soul. If in addition to these various bodies, the spirit is also clothed with a physical body, it is called a human being or man in flesh and blood. Therefore it is incorrect to say that man is made of body, soul and spirit. Man is simply spirit. A spirit with non physical and non spiritual coverings is called a soul. If in addition to the various non material coverings, the spirit also acquires an earthly body, then it is a human being. The decent from heaven to earth involves the envelopment of the human spirit by the various cloaks corresponding to different planes of existence that is below the spiritual. In the developing foetus the spirit acquires the outermost covering, the earthly body. The ascent to paradise or heaven requires a reverse process in which the human spriit discards its physical body ( so called death), then discards several material but non earthly cloaks, then several non material cloaks until what is left is only the spirit with its spiritual form, only then will it ascend to heaven, the kingdom of God. However only those spirits that acquired their spiritual form in the way God stipulated will be able to soar back to heaven, the kingdom of God. Others who have acquired their forms in disobedience to Gods laws will be chained by the earthly and non material cloaks since a wrongly developed spirit cannot discard its various cloaks. The fallen human spirit then becomes subject to the cycle of decay and death that is the course in the world of matter. It will then suffer disintergration with the material species, such disintegration dissolves the "likeness of the image of God" the spiritual form it has acquired. Such a fallen spirit ceases to exist, it has no name since the "likeness of the image of God" have be disntegrated. That is eternal damnation, the most painful experience that will befall a human spirit. Therfore it correct to say that human spirits who lived in the sense of the will of God will be granted eternal life by God. Those however who disobeyed Gods laws will cease to exist.

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Right! . . . and on what do you base this?

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Soul & Spirit hmn? Let me simplify it for you. You have soul,spirit and body. If your body lacks food you noticed hunger.

What made you to understand that you were hungry was nothing but your soul(which has to do with your mind - reasoning power)

Your soul has much to do with your reasoning on natural things.

The real man in you as a person is your Spirit,which is greater than your soul.Your soul communes with your body while

your spirits communes with your creator (GOD).This has to do with spiritual matters/activities.

Body and soul will perish but your spirit remains forever.

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@PastorAIO: You should just have gone to talk to knowledgeable Imams. You will just have to find out by yourself. There are so many information that we have in Is.lam. Sometimes it may be difficult to pinpoint the source, without a more detailed research, as a muslim. Thats why you see people studying I.slam, more frequently. Checking and rechecking, again.

The Noble Qur'an The Holy Bible

Man, mud and spirit Man, soil and breath

Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;

"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, , 15: 28-29

God shaped man from the soil of the ground and blew the breath of life into his nostrils, and man became a living being.

Genesis 2.7

Translations used:

Yusufali Translation used:

New Jerusalem Bible

Relate in the Book (the Qur'an) (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. Y 19:16

And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. P.19:17

In order to know man Islam takes three distinct levels into consideration;

Jism (body, physique),

Nafs (personality, character), and

Rooh (soul, spirit).

Namely, in one of the philosophical outlooks of Islam, man is composed of three parts; Jism, the physique which is of material substance and we deal with it in physiology and biology. Thus our bodies are known to various systems and as far as these scientific areas are concerned Islam has no disagreement with anyone.

Nafs: Nafs in man is the totality of sentiments, tendencies, desires, wishes, experiences, and our heredity characteristics; in short, it is man's personality.

What creates a difference between one man and another is Nafs rather than Rooh. It is man's Rooh which transform and evolves.

Rooh: Based upon the Qur'anic verse; "They ask thee concerning the spirit (of inspiration). Say The spirit cometh by command of my Lord: of Knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)." (Holy Qur'an 17:85) This verse teaches us that the spirit is an 'Amr' i.e. the work of Allah. In other words, it is a created thing, not self-existent. The Holy Qur'an does not go beyond telling us that. It does not tell us the nature of the spirit. However, just like our ignorance of the nature of electricity or magnetism does not prevent us from taking full advantage of these wonders of creation, we can advance ourselves spiritually by taking full advantage of the functions of the spirit.

Rooh is something which descends to man from God and we interpret it as our 'inside Prophet' namely, it is a representative from the Lord inside Insan. And this what is interpreted as 'Gabriel' in the case of the Prophet as was the Holy Spirit in Jesus (pbuh). It is the relationship of God with man that appears under various names in different Prophets. This spirit is clean and innocent and it cannot err. Rooh never appears in plural form in the Holy Qur'an (although common men have pluralized it; 'Arwah') since it is a single reality. So there is no difference between your soul and my soul, the two of them 'is' a reality like the sun which radiates its, light upon all men. While the plural of Nafs is Anfos (or Nafus). And when and entire group of people get killed we say; "Their Nafus died rather than their Arwah," since the latter, being God's manifestation, cannot be killed. Where man develops the capability, aptitude, and the worth to discover Rooh, he will be aided by the latter. And when a disease attacks and the body and Nafs loose their natural balance Rooh falls into disuse and cannot establish relationship with man.

What distinguishes one man from another is Nafs which contains our personalities. And in our opinion the part of us which is responsible in front of the Lord in the final day is the Nafs of each of us. And it is Nafs which errs not the Rooh. The body is not that important since it is in constant process of change and transformation. However, what we believe to be the essence of man was placed in the Nafs, and it is Nafs which will be interrogated in the last day.

*** And please believe me, I do not bash Christianity. I was married to a Christian woman. My mother was a Christian, before she converted. I hope to develop a brotherly relationship with you. in due course, we may even call each other on phone. Who knows the future.

I will still get you references. Please do not hesitate to approach people of knowledge in isla.m and verify what I write.

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@Pastor AIO:

Mus.lims are not known as Mohamedan, or derivate of it, whatsoever. It seems as if you are tell us, the people in Is.lam that Ruuh and Nafs are different? No. To us they are the same thing; One name (Ruuh) when it is imn the spiritual realm. The other name (Nafs) when it is already in the body of the man who is alive. When the man is dying, the same product is being removed as and being turned out of the body. (From Nafs to Ruuh, again).

When we say a man is either happy or sad, we mean his destiny, finally in the day of Judgement; a sad soul is the one that will end up in Hellfire, while a happy soul is the soul that will be mercied with Paradise of God Almighty. A good example of happy soul is the soul of any prophet of God. From Adam to Jesus and ending up with Mu.hammad (AS Jami'a), and any soul that followed their teaching, in its original form, without any corruptions of deviations. (We did not read that the disciples prayed to God, in the presence of Jesus, saying, ", , in Jesus name our/my God. Amen". Did we?

God provides us with earthly signs to know about the ending of any human. We see some people starting out terrible and then ending up very bad. Some of them we see that they have done evil and they are punished terrible with hard inflictions. Their torment begins right here on earth. A good example is Pharaoh of Moses. Remember that he drowned in the water that before then, might have meant nothing just a little to him. Today we have Sharon of Israel being supported by a mere ventillation device. We also know some people who inflicts punishment on people. Here in America, a few names come to mind; The Old man Charles manson of Helter sketter fame of 1969! You have the Jewish guy central park strangler a decade later, named Jacob Horowitz, with his "Son of Sam," signature! But God is Merciful. He provides a means of forgiveness, by repentance. No one is shot out of the Mercy and forgiveness of God, unless and until the moment of death.

Alla.h the almighty says in His Book; Oh my creation, (mankind) do not be hopeless in the Mercy of your Lord. God forgives sins, if it is as big as the earth. God is Most Merciful. God is Most forgiving.

You must have heard the term, Saddist, before? This is a person who wants to be sad and wants others to be unhappy.

Then from your postulation, therefore everyone is a christ. Right? Why would anyone (a christ by your hypothesis, above) follow another Christ, then? This last christ is the bigger/biggest christ? You will see that if you are correct, then the whole of christendom is Zero. If you are wrong, then, how many a pastor like you have proposed ideas that are contrary to the true teachings of Jesus son of Mary, after he had been lifted up to heavens? Do we know any truth from the overwhelming fallacies that are abundant in the bible, therefore? Wouldn't you therefore see that the only way to attest to any possible truthful idea in the bible is to turn to the AlQur'an for verification.

There will not be any backlash. We are all trying to educate ourselves, while we are sifting through information, to know the truth from fallacy. I appreciate your effort in sincerity. I do not know anything, except that I am a true believer in One God, His Angels, His Books (in their pure states), His prophets/Messengers, Day of Judgement and destiny (including the Good and the Bad of them). I pray that we all will find the right guidance and therefore receive the Mercy of God, and be from the people who are favored in this life, in death and in the day where is no Help, except what God permits. Amin.

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No sir, I am not hiding any information from you. I simply asking you in the spirit of honest enquiry. You can relax.

Curiously the same thing as you are saying can be deduced from the book of Genesis. Man is made of dust and then when God breathes spirit into his nostrils then he becomes a living soul. So the soul is according to this account the product of Spirit and the body of dust. I have to check though whether in the original hebrew the terms used are Ruach and Nephesh.

Indeed, to further collaborate what you are saying neurologists would say that everything attributed to the soul/psyche/anima/nafsi (here I mean soul as in contrast to spirit which is divine) can be explained by the physiology of the body and it's neural networks. So if there is a soul separate from the body then neither it nor it's independent function is evident.

I would also add to what you've said about Ru'uh (though I'm not a moslem so I speak from my experience not as a mohamedan) that as well as being the blueprint of the individual, the destiny as it were, that it is also possible for the Nafs to become out of alignment with the Ruuh. Whereby the behaviour of the individual takes a path that is contrary to it's destiny. Such an individual will never have fulfilment in life. Regardless of his circumstance. He might be the richest guy in the world with the most beautiful women salivating over his phallic immensity yet it will bring him no contentment. and until the nafs is brought into alignment with Ruuh then he will be at peace. And further this process or discipline of aligning and reconnecting nafs to Ruuh is the essence of religion. Religion meaning Re -ligere , to re-connect.

I would disagree with you that a Ruuh for an unhappy person would exist. I don't think it is anybodies lot to be unhappy in life. It is from turning away from the influence of Ruuh, his lot, his anointment, that a man becomes unhappy.

Now this is probably going to displease you and many of the christians here, but I would go even further yet to say that Ruuh is an anointing, therefore a christ and that if you seek to follow your ruuh then you are in fact a Christian, a follower of christ. More so than another who might more readily claim the term.

Now I must go and prepare myself for the backlash.

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@Pastor AIO: I said Angel Gabreil is known as Ruuh Qudus. He is also known by many other names. There was no time I said he was just ruuh. But I said ruuh is the soul of man in spiritual realm. But the same soul is called nafs as it is the body of a living man. When a man dies, the soul (ruuh) is detached from the body. It leaves the body and the body is lifeless. It is no more nafs, when it is leaving the body.

I am a musl.im for more than half a century, and counting. Its not the length of time, but I have tried to immense myself into Isl.am. I am learning and I enjoy everything about it. If you know something I do not know, please share it with us. There is no need to leave us hanging, while you have th information. (Mankind, while their souls were removed from Adam, after he had became alive, but before Eve was created were in the Ruuh (Spirit) State, in Heavens. After Eve was created, Husband and wife entered Paradise).

When they were sent down to the earth, and as they had children, the Ruuh of the child is brought in and attached to the zygote, the combination of male sperm and female egg, at the appropriate time. During this time that the Ruuh is being attached to the body, all the sustenance; how long the child will live and what the child will become, including if he will be a happy person or not. Inshort, it is about the destiny of that person.

This is the understing in Is.lam.

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ps. when you say angel Gabriel is Ru'uh does that mean that we all have angel Gabriel in us?

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Thank you for the correction. I want to look further into this. Could you give me some references or where it is said in the qu'ran that Ruuh is nafs when it is in the body. Even in christianity there is much confusion of the idea of spirit and soul being different things. They are often interchanged. Indeed as the opening poster asked: Is soul the spirit? Is soul the mind?

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@ Pastor AIO: Ruuh is the same thing as Naf. When that part is in the Spiritual realm, before it is infused with the body, in the mother's womb, it is called Ruuh. Thats it is still in the spiritual form. When it is infused with the body (Flesh, bone and blood), it becomes Naf or Nafsi. This is the earthly form of it. In this stage, it has a form because of the physical body that house what was Ruuh in the spiritual, which is now Nafs, in the physical. There is no 3 parts to a person, but just two parts.

Is it not ironic that people are talking about spirit, and refuse to accept that the holy spirit is not equal to God, and not part of God? is it not ironic that while we tell others that the holy spirit is nothing more than Angel Gabreil, people continue to deny the obvious, but they do not have any explanation to the contrary?

As a Mus.lim, I know that Angel gabreil is called by many names., which one of them is Holy Spirit (Ruuh Qudus). Is Angel gabreil part of God, or His tool, an errant entity?

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Body: We all know what that is. It is this limitation that extends from our head to toe.

Soul: This in Hebrew was called Nephesh. In Arabic it is called Nafs. In Greek it is called Psyche. It is the tendencies, the emotions, the thought patterns that drive our behaviour and characteristics. Materialists will say that there is no such thing as the soul because everything that is ascribed to the soul can be explained by the neurology of the body. One of the functions of the Soul is the creation of a sense of Identity. Identity is usually closely related to the body but not necessarily so because quite often the Identity can seem to be located away from the body as in the case of OBEs etc.

Spirit: This in Hebrew is called Ru'ach. In Arabic it is called Ru'uh. In Greek it is called Pneuma. This is likened to a breath and it is said to be divine. It inspires us with Abilities and qualities greater than the human qualities. Prophecy, seeing the future etc

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Donnie study the bible carefully man was made with dust, the breath of life/spirit then the combination of it all makes man a living soul.(Gen 2:7) u dont hv a soul rather u are a soul.when u die u become a dead soul e.g 1pet 3:20 , Josh11:11. animals are also souls Gen1:20,21,24,25.human or souls can die Ezek.18:4. spirit or breath in this context is the life giving force which God blew into the man nostril which made in a living thing. when the spirit or final breaths goes out he becomes a dead soul. that spirit goes to God Eccl 12:7 i.e God  has the power to give the life again.like if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property the property returns to it's owner so also the that can function on it own.

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Donnie study the bible carefully man was made with dust, the breath of life/spirit then the combination of it all makes man a living soul.(Gen 2:7) u dont hv a soul rather u are a soul.when u die u become a dead soul e.g 1pet 3:20 , Josh11:11. animals are also souls Gen1:20,21,24,25.human or souls can die Ezek.18:4. spirit or breath in this context is the life giving force which God blew into the man nostril which made in a living thing. when the spirit or final breaths goes out he becomes a dead soul. that spirit goes to God Eccl 12:7 i.e God  has the power to give the life again.like if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property the property returns to it's owner so also the that can function on it own.

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Donnie study the bible carefully man was made with dust, the breath of life/spirit then the combination of it all makes man a living soul.(Gen 2:7) u dont hv a soul rather u are a soul.when u die u become a dead soul e.g 1pet 3:20 , Josh11:11. animals are also souls Gen1:20,21,24,25.human or souls can die Ezek.18:4. spirit or breath in this context is the life giving force which God blew into the man nostril which made in a living thing. when the spirit or final breaths goes out he becomes a dead soul. that spirit goes to God Eccl 12:7 i.e God  has the power to give the life again.like if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property the property returns to it's owner so also the that can function on it own.

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Dear Layi,

Your concience is the voice of ur human Spirit. Your concience will tell you if you are in the right or in the wrong. That is why we must feed our Spirits with Gods word.

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@Donnie

Wher then is the seat of conscience ? Spirit or soul?

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The Spirit is the real man. U are a spirit. You have a soul and you live in a body.

The soul on the other hand is the seat of your emotions, feelings, will etc.

The Spirit lives on after the body is dead and the soul lives on with it.

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This is a somewhat difficult question. The Bible does not clearly define that there is a difference between a person’s soul and spirit. It seems that the terms are used synonymously at times, as in Luke 1:46-47. In other instances, “soul” is used to describe man’s basic worldly functions, and “spirit” is used when talking about his spiritual relationship with God. This is shown in 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:4.

It seems that man is likely made up of three distinct parts: body, soul, and spirit. The body is made up of flesh and can be touched. The soul forms the basic thought patterns and directs one’s functions. The spirit is in direct relationship with the Lord.

Source: www.raptureready.com

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