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Stop And Think ,how Can God Exist And We Are Here Arguing Over It ?

I want to ask, Is it possible that God is existing and we are here arguing over it,

Even religious people can not be able to prove his existince,

I mean have we ever argued over the existence of the Sun or Moon.

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All the knowledge we have on earth today can only explain about 4% of our OBSERVABLE universe.

The 1st thing we need to acknowledge is our almost total ignorance. Too many people make arguments like they already have all the answers. like people that don't agree with them must just be plain silly. In my opinion, what is silly is thinking we have anything figured out.

I think we need less confrontation and more exchange of ideas. Too much "reductionism" on NL. This poo ain't that simple. . . .

Theists are not completely wrong, neither are atheists nor deists. Neither is completely right. We are all on to something. IMHO debates would be a lot more rewarding if we sincerely engaged each order in an attempt to understand opposing views, instead of tryin to ridicule each other all the time.

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Krayola: this debate is already thousands of years old and will carry on for many more millions of years.

Its the ultimate question of our existence.

We can never get tired of it.

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don't u guys get sick of the same old, played out, boring debate over and over again on every thread?

This poo is sooo lame now, i wonder what anybody is getting out of it.

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Have you ever seen gravity?

Or Magnetism?

We can only feel these things.

How much more the uncaused cause?

Take time o.

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have u ever heard about the power of choice?

God has simply excercise His power of choice by refusing to show Himself to u. . . . . . .u have not given any reason to suggest He does not exist. . or have u?

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@ Ascony - your post is incredibly short-sighted, apologies for saying so.

The evidence is all around us, it can hardly be God's problem if people choose to be blind.

JUST look at the very palm of your own hand. See how structurally sound it is and adapted for its purpose. I can't imagine that any person who has ever seen the stars, the earth from the moon, or contemplated the universe can deny the existence of God. Even the very pang of conscience is a subtle hint of the existence of the Deity. On this, i will have to agree with the boorish Sauron that it does not seem very clever to deny the existence of an uncaused cause, however one may define that cause.

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Believe it or not, there is no God. The original question is still is,,,,if God exist, how can we be arguing about him? If God truly exists, it will be piece of cake for him to show all of mankind that he truly exists, , If God truly exists, there will be no atheists, he would have enlightened the atheists long ago with undeniable proofs of his existence.

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They are silly because humans are expected to know better.

As far as i am concerned, they are a waste of flesh. . . . . .

There are Christians in Thailand albeit small. No matter where you are. . . .certain news will get to you and that includes the gospel.

How many Imams born in the middle east have changed to Christianity from Islam? Were they brain-washed as well?

Wole Soyinka certainly knows there's a GOD up there . . . .Refusing to serve that GOD is a different matter entirely.

You are insecure.

Let Christians stay in their sections and discuss Christian issues. . . . .Let Muslims do the same as well.

The Godless people should also get a section and discuss their issues there.

I am sick n tired of seeing gazillions of threads putting down other religions(majority of them emanate from Atheists especially Huxley).

Atheists should keep their Godless lives to themselves and stop attacking other people's GODs!!!

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What makes them silly, thoughtless and simpletons? You believe that god exist they don't so what makes them silly? Why is your own belief better than theirs?

Have you ever seen any god? How do you know that the bible writers were not lying? Why do you believe in the bible and not the koran? If you were born in thailand will you have been a christian? Do you have any empirical evidence to show that your god exist? Do you not only believe because you have been indoctrinated since childhood and your surrounding culture?. . . . .

Those are the ones you know. . . I also know those that worship only sango and other traditional gods. . .wole soyinka for example is a Ifa worshipper and Ifa is the only god he knows as far as he is concerned there is no god greater than Ifa. . . .

The lies you tell yourselves all the time so that you can sleep at night. . . are the christains that go to the islam section insecured when they go to challenge the moslems over there? I do not believe in all the gods of man religions and I am not insecured about it at all. . . .

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U keep mixing stuffs up. . . . .

I said those who do not believe GOD EXISTS are silly, THOUGHTLESS AND SIMPLETONS.

I can understand if u believe there's GOD but u refuse to serve him. . . . .But saying there's no GOD at all is the height of IDIOCY.

Read between the lines. . . .Serving him and believing in his existence are 2 different things.

You are an ignoramus.

I know a lot of peops in Osogbo who go for the river festival every year from the UK.

They still believe in GOD almighty but they follow the tradition of their forefathers. So stop spewing balderdash in the name of trying to win a debate.

The topic of this thread alone has attacked my beliefs. I have every right to attack back.

Why can't you atheists just keep mum and leave people who serve God alone. . . . .Does it bovver you that we have GOD?

I don't bovver you, don't bovver me and stop putting senseless topics like this to provoke people who have GOD in their lives.

Y'all are the ones insecure, not me.

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Here it is. .

You suggested that those that do not believe in god are some how silly. . . .

The above is very false. . . . Oya woshippers worship oya. . sango worshipper worship sango. . .my mothers uncle is a traditional african religionist and worships the spirits of his ancestors. . .that Is the ONLY god he knows and acknowledges. . . he does not believe in jesus, Allah or yahweh. . .

you are the one that is ignorant. . .

OK. . . .I have come to accept that people are their beliefs. . . an attack on their beliefs is an attack on them personally. . . .

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I do not believe I know it is true. . . .All man made religions are false. . . .and all their claims are all lies. . .

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And i hadnt even read the above posts when i responded to Chrisbenogor . . . God knows what Sauron is supposed to do . . . Chris says dont explain, Deepsight says dont run away. Are these folks sane at all?

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Round about senseless argument.

You come here daily asking us to EXPLAIN . . . when we do you say we shld just stick to our faith and try not to explain. when we dont you say its because we have no explanation and are trying to dodge.

You cant reason with those who have chosen to remain perpetually blind.

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empty barrels . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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So Sauron, i really wanted to test that by-line of yours, but so far you are yet to do it credit. Please go and read the posts of people like Prizm and Pastor AIO, then you will get a feel of real intelligence.

All i have reaped from you are empty platitudes and of course, your customary insults.

E don do jare, i dey go drink beer and squeez some yansh in the strip club.

Later!

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You are really a product of very good and constant brain washing. You line of reasoning is nauseating me now so I will leave you and deep sight to slug it out, even among you that say you believe in God you cannot agree as to what God is, and you want us to by the BS from you. Shove it!

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The funny thing with this Sauron fellow, is this. I was actually intrigued by his by-line about his intelligence.

So i was eager to get a feel of it, and he is letting me down badly now.

Simple questions - direct quotes from his own bible, and he goes on about grasping the greatness of God. Who is attempting to do that? ? ?

Ol' boy, tell us why it says in Timothy: There is only one God, and one mediator between God and Man, the man Jesus Christ?

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No! God's greatness is not at issue here.

A poor carpenter was sent by God to give Mankind a Divine Message.

In the typical hero-worshipping mentality of Mankind, after he died, they began to equate him with God.

Despite the fact that he repeatedly stated that he was not God, but the Son of God.

Tell me what makeS you different from the followers of Guru Maharaji and Olumba Olumba, who also call these people GOD!

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No, not good enough. Flies straight away in the face of reason. (And dont tell be its a mystery, because he did'nt say so.

Further, he backed this up with MANY other statements -

Do not call me good, only God is good.

Not even the son knows the day and hour, (so he is not omniscient) etc.

Give it up, boy!

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Deep sight wants to use his very limited senses to calculate God's infinte greatness.

Some people and their fickle minds. . . . .

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This is ridiculous.

Is there no where in the bible where Jesus established His divinity and God-like personality?

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I can't be wasting my time teaching you basic principles.

Go and read the concept of THE HOLY TRINITY.

Jesus saying "The Father Is Greater Than I" was taken out of context and you know it.

He had to take the form of humans so people with limited senses like you can grab what he is about.

If HE then said the FATHER IS GREATER THAN I, He is very correct!!!

This is what ticks me off about people with limited intelligence.

Where in ma comment have i said Jesus was a liar?

You are pathetic!!!

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WE WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO ESCAPE SO LIGHTLY.

TELL US WHY YOU HAVE BRANDED JESUS A LIAR? ? ?

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SAURON THIS IS SAD ESCAPISM AT ITS WORST! ! !

TALKING ABOUT UFOs WHEN A SIMPLE QUESTION IS PUT TO YOU:

"THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I!"

HOW DOES THAT RHYME WITH YOUR INSISTENCE THAT THEY ARE EQUAL? ? ?

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YES. . . . .my intelligence does begin where yours peaks at and even with that. . . .I will be the first person to tell u men cannot grasp this concept.

No one has seen God in all of his splendor and glory.

We humans down here on earth are limited by our five senses and our finite minds, which process the data taken in by our five senses and somehow reformulate them into ideas.

For centuries philosophers have been debating each other over how the mind works.

So how can the human mind figure out and calculate the pure nature of God? Even the so called ALIENS behind UFOs have more intelligence than humans so cracking your head to solve this mystery is a sheer waste of time. Your senses are too limited to process such an ambiguous task.

Given God’s infinite greatness and ultimate unknowability, and given the finiteness of our five senses and the limits of our minds, it stands to reason, therefore, that some ideas about God are perplexing and unsolvable.

I rest my case.

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WHERE IS SAURON? DONT RUN AWAY AND HIDE UNDER - "We can never understand it". Any lie can be justified by stating - "We can never understand it"

ANSWER! TELL US WHY JESUS IS WRONG IN HIS ASSESSMENT OF HIMSELF AND YOUR OWN ASSESSMENT OF HIM IS CORRECT.

TELL US WHY YOU ARE SMARTER THAN JESUS.

TELL US IN PLAIN ENGLISH THAT JESUS WAS LYING WHEN HE SAID THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN HIM.

TELL US!

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EXACTLY!!

No one can prove or disprove the existence of any God, spirit, or whteva. that is why most of the debates on nairaland never get anywhere, because people want impossible things.

I always say "I don't believe in the God of Religion" . .but i'll never say he doesn't exist, because I do not know that, and neither does anybody else. U might believe he does, but u can't prove it. believing something is different from knowing it.

It is when people start to state their beliefs as matter of fact, and want to start imposing it on others, na there kata kata dey bust

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I DID NOT SAY GOD DOES NOT EXIST.

I SAID JESUS CLAIMED TO BE INFERIOR TO THE FATHER. YOU CONTRADICT HIM BY CALLING HIM EQUAL.

ANSWER THAT!

(After all, your intelligence begins where the rest of ours peaks)

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Why can't you just accept this theory is far beyond your understanding even if you possess the thinking faculty of Einstein.

Go and read about the concept of THE HOLY TRINITY.

It is not as logical as you think. . . . . .There are some things you can never grasp. . . .accept it and move on!!!!

P.S. I am not trying to sell my God to you. . . . . .U can worship a snake if it pleases you but never ever say someone's GOD does not EXIST.

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"Do not call me Good, only God is Good"

"The father is greater than i"

Sauron - go ahead and contradict Jesus. State clearly that Jesus was wrong and you are right.

Co-Equal? You cant sustain that! Jesus clearly said he is NOT equal with the father.

ANSWER THAT!

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silly post from Banom . . .

this is foolish for the following reasons:

1. I firmly believe that God exists IRRESPECTIVE of your godless status . . .

2. I have NEVER and will NEVER force you to believe that God exists. That you choose to believe the opposite is your own cup of tea.

3. You accuse me of being a liar, however my decision to believe that God exists in TRUTH is MY decision alone and you have absolutely NO RIGHT to ask me to prove it to you.

4. If you accuse me of being a liar (since i have never come to you to accept God before and neither am i interested in doing so), the onus is on you to prove that your accusation against me is true.

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Apologies accepted!!!!

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So sorry. . .You are one of the good ones that believes in live and let live. . . . nice. . .I thought you were one of the fundamentalist out here. . . . .

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YES. . . . .in principle.

Was there any empirical evidence that Jesus sinned before he was baptised?

Why are you lumping things together. . . . .You seem to be confused.

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And how can you go about screaming co-equal, when jesus himself stated that the father is greater than him.

So now you know Jesus' status better than he did himself?

You are talking about common sense - you show us what's so common sensical about your assertion - which contradicts christ's own very words.

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Is Jesus the same as God? I mean the same person. . . .

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So? That was God saying this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased, and anointing him therefore with the holy spirit.

I am shocked that you would think that God would need to be baptised, if you understand the concept of baptism, because it has to do with removal from sin into a new life. Did God need removal from sin into a new life? ? ?

Address the words of Jesus i quoted above - dont run away.

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The co-equal and distinct persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not three Gods because they share the same essence in complete unity.

For example, the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are three distinct persons and beings.

They do not share the same essence or being or divine attributes.

However, the doctrine of the Trinity says that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit share the same being or essence, and this is where the human example of the three patriarchs and the divine nature must part company. So the human analogy fails to describe the Trinity and would in fact confuse this doctrine if we took the example seriously.

Discuss Jesus' baptism!!!

The voice, the dove and Jesus himself.

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SAURON -

I like the Infinity equation you set up, but we will discuss that later. It only works if you can establish that Jesus even taught the trinity in the first place.

The words of Jesus:

John 8:40: “, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.”

John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

Mark 13:32:"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

John 5:19: "Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does”

John 14:28: "You heard me say,'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

John 20:17: "Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

Mark 10:18: “Do not call me good, only God is good.”

John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

Guys from the foregoing there can be NO DOUBT, that Jesus NEVER, NOT EVEN FOR ONE SECOND, regarded himself as God. Notwithstanding anything the hero-worshipping Apostles will tell you. But even they said a lot to show that they didn’t think so –

1Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:3: “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Acts 2:22 - “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”

Acts 2:36: “God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Let’s face it: the Trinity was created by the Roman Catholic Church and not Jesus Christ, and now people are ready to die to affirm the truth of it, disregarding Jesus’ own words.

So beware: calling him God – or “part of God” – is definitely blasphemy.

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Don't let Oladegbuu hear you ohh. . . how dare you say that his Jesus is distinct from god? The bible according to him tells him that jesus and that concept is shared by millions of other christians, others say that jesus is equal to god but not the same person as god. . .so which is it really? is jesus the same person as god or is he different from god. . .This trinity wahala sef. . .

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Faith and common sense, bro!!!

U can never understand. . . . . . .

As a mortal. . . . . .U are looking at it as 1 + 1 + 1 = SHOULD NOT BE 3.

But i am here telling you 1 X 1 X 1 = 1.  Infinity + Infinity + Infinity = INFINITY.

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Why all these arguments about abstract gods?

By what means do now explain to a muslim if all you have is a hunch that God is three in one?

How did humans who were supposedly not know about God know that God is three in one?

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Sauron! ! !

Cant you see the inherent contradiction in your surmise? ? ?

You say HE is indivisible, and yet the Son came down to earth while the Father remained on the throne.

You say they are equal, but Jesus said repeatedly: The Father is greater than I?

You say they are all knowing, but Jesus said "The day and hour, no man knows, not the angels, not even the son, but only the father?"

And jESUS referred to the Father as his God - "I return to your father and my father, your God and my God"

Get real, brother.

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So this god that exist as 3 distinct persons is the same as Allah of the koran eh? I laugh in chinese. . . .

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This is why HE is God.

The theory is not simulataneous equations or Levinson's time equations.

This is difficult to grasp because we have no comparison that we can experience empirically or with our five senses. . . . .We mortals cannot sit down and try to analyse the concept of the existence of God. . . .If we can then why is HE GOD?

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Tsk Tsk!!!

God exists in three persons who share the same essence or being.

What this means is that God exists in the distinct and co-equal persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but they share a fully divine essence or being, such as uncreatedness, eternality, simplicity (non-composite or indivisible), immutability (unchangeableness), omniscience (all wise and knowing), omnipotence (all powerful), goodness, mercy, holiness, will and freedom, and so on.

Thus, in God, the attributes of his essence are fully shared by three persons, making each person fully God.

Yet, the three persons are distinct. The Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit; the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.

But, to repeat, the three persons share the same essence. That is, the Father and Son and Holy Spirit duplicate the same attributes. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equally wise and merciful and holy; one is not more wise or merciful or holy than the other. Augustine says: "These three have the same eternal nature, the same unchangeableness, the same majesty, the same power".

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Just like xtians claim Father, son, & holyspirit are all equals. . .

Does that mean they don't recognise the CREATOR?

No!

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This comment has nothing to do with Mazaje's blasphemy.

The $64,000 question is. . . . . .Is God = Chineke = Jehovah?

Please answer YES/NO and quit this nonsensical religious studies. . . . .U can think for yourself, man.

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This is a very beautiful post.

AND IT PROVES THE POINT TO MAZAJE THAT ALL TRIBES HAD A CONCEPTION OF A CREATOR.

As to the Zeus thing: understand: God does not go around changing his character. It is the nuances of different cultures and histories that ASCRIBE different things to HIM. Simple.

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