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The Gospel Message: Is It For Or Against Prosperity?

I have heard people give impression as though prosperity is wrong based on certain scriptures like

Matthew 19:24

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Is God against prosperity? what of other scriptures that sounds otherwise.

3 John 1:2

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

2 Cor. 8:9

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that[b] ye through his poverty might be rich[/b].

Which side is God ? For Against or in between.

I WILL APPRECIATE POINTS BACKED UP WITH BIBLICAL VERSES

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38 answers

I answered saharachic that way because of her shabby questions without details or explanation. But the truth of the matter as I said earlier is God never fail in his promises. But the word of God may not always necesarily come to pass. Let me explain. God told Moses to bring the Isrealites out of Egypt  and take them into the promised land. Moses only brought them out but didnt take them in. God already promise Isreal victory over the enemy even if they had chariots of iron but it didt come to pass.

Joshua 17:18

    But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.

Judges 1:19

    And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Elisha prophesied that Israel would win the battle against Moab in 2kings 3 but they lost the battle ,When king of Moab offered his son on the wall .There are several issues in bible  both promises and truths that didnt come to  pass.  Not that God failed but man fail to receive. There are legal truths and vital truths. Legally God has done all he needs to do, but to make it a vital reality, there are steps of faith a man must take to activate the blessing or walk in their realities. Such as giving,praying, walking in love etc. . So if if you just ask saccastically , "has the word of God ever failed?" Yes! it has, in the lives of those who would not act accordingly period.

Mark 16:17

    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So many still argue over tongues and healing ,How can the prophecy be fulfilled?

Jesus said Lazarus would not die  but he died!

John 11:4

    When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death,

But thank God Jesus would not give up on his faith ,even though Lazzarus died ,he refused to recognise it and called him out as a living person.

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Genesis 3:19

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

You should learn to make yourself clear. The verse deals with several things , so which one of them are you refering to?

But if I will give you straight answer for all. the answer is YES/NO. It is valid for the world but not for Christians

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Are you sure you are not a false teacher, no follower of Christ?

According to you, the word of God has failed to come to pass.

A warning for you:

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@ joagbaje

would you say Gen 3:19 is still a valid judgement?

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The preachers of this generation have made us to understand that the more money you give to the pastor or to the church the more blessing you get. WRONG.

They introduced sawing and reaping, the seed is MONEY, very funny. Some people even saw money seed to get husband and protection, this is the same practice of babalawo, that is what the church of this age have turned into. Jesus said seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and every other thing shall be added unto you. When we do this, then God will take care of our other concerns. This is prosperity when God himself takes over what concerns us.

To me this is the total message of prosperity anything outside this is for selfish interest and God is not involved in a thing like that.

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I

Has God failed in his words ? No never. But Has the word of God failed to come to pass? Yes!

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Dont be hypocritical. we both know you dont get to the point sometimes.

Another question: Has God ever failed in any of his words through out the bible?

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The gospel is not against prosperity. The christian prosper so he can be a blessing not for selfish reasons. We need to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth, through television, radio, internet and we cant use the blood of Jesus to pay. Money is a tool in the hand of the christian, a poor christian can only preach as far as he can treck but a rich christian can stay in Nigeria and win thousands of people in other nations with his money.

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The Gospel is not against prosperity and comfort. God has promised to supply our needs. The gospel is against a lust for excess.

The Gospel must be preached to the ends of the earth before Jesus comes. That is not going to happen free of charge, hence it only makes sense that God brings riches the way of those who will finance his work.

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Get to the point. There are two Adams . Adam the flesh and Adam the spirit. The flesh goes to dust but the spirit does not go to dust, but i dont know your point here

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@joagbaje

Did God tell Adam that dust he came from and to dust he will return?

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Dont make mistakes, a christian makes money to have more than enough to reach others.Not for te purpose of eating with golden spoon and ivory bed. A christian does not need to pray for money ,he is blessed already. all he needs do is to exercise his authority and dominion over lack.

Deut. 8:18

But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Solomon didnt have to pray for riches ,he understood the principles of making riches. He gives to God and embrace wisdom

Proverbs 3:9-10

Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: [10] So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

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2 Cor. 12:7

    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul's thorn in the flesh was not sickness oo. God would not give his Children what Christ has taken away.The word  thorn has to do with afflictions and persecutions, .It was a language they were used to.

Numbers 33:55

    But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Paul talks from time to time what his thorns were.His many afflictions.

2 Cor. 11:23-27

    Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.

If Timothy was sick. It was based on his faith. There is no automatic prosperity or automatic immunity from sickness. The jst shall live by his faith". that is why a man has to be so rich in the word of God to reign above sickness , poverty and death.You have the responsibility to resist the devil.

Ephes. 6:11

    Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

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Folks who have never seen enough money are always looking to hit it big time which I thought was the thug way until I started looking closely at SOME of these pentecostal churches/preachers.

Real Christians PRAY against that extra dollar that could block their whole salvation and money hungry Christians pray for wealth/prosperity and tell you they have it figured out, na wa for waec ooo.

Last time I checked, Solomon NEVER prayed for RICHES! Correct me if I am wrong.

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Na wa ooh. so Jesus went through all that wahala including sacrificing himself on the cross just to let us know we can really hit it big time. Was it really necessary? afterall God's people were receiving their blessings in the old testament just like that. Maybe man was so dumb not figure this out by himself or probably forgot, thereby necessitating the need for the Lord coming to remind us.

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I begin to despair, but here follows a rebuttal using the scriptures as I see you are playing around with words (it is clear to me that you equate the gospel to being materially wealthy i.e having money, owo, ego, kudi).

1. 2 Co 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

2. Gal 4:13-14 You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.

3. 1 Tim 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

So by your understanding of the gospel Paul and Timothy were not really Christians since they had ailments.

So their inheritance is here on earth?

1. Mat 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,

2. Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

3. Heb 11:13-16 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

How about this:

The problem is that every time you see the word "rich" in the bible $$$ signs begin to flash in your mind

So the good news of Jesus of Nazareth to the poor is that they can have more money than Bill Gates? How well the bible describes these times we live in.

This is the gospel summarized:

1. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

2. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

3. Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

4. Isa 53:5-6 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

5. Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

And

Here is a warning for all proponents of the "gospel of prosperity":

Is Jesus asking the Laodiceans to buy physical gold from him?

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If it is God's will for us to be healed, then it is God's will for us to be rich.

The  first thing we should ask ourselves is ; What is the definition of the GOSPEL. The Gospel means good news.

Luke 4:18

    The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, ,

What  was Jesus refering to here as the poor? was it spiritualy poor people or materially? The GK word ptochos; refers to paupers, beggars. He has brought a message to liberate them from poverty into wealth.

There is no middle ground. It is either you are rich or poor. The average man is still a poor man. because he cant help anyone. One of the ministry of a pastor is to perfect the saints.Paul was instructed by christ to deliver the saints into their inheritance.

Acts 26:18

    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

2 Cor. 6:10

    As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

2 Cor. 8:9

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

A christian does not have to labour after material things, but he need to understand his rights and priviledges in Christ.that all things belong to him

1 Cor. 3:21

Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

The only thing God will be against is a man becoming materialistic by his inability to give out or beign lifted in pride.

1 Tim. 6:17

Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

"he gives us richly all things to enjoy"

Deut. 8:18

But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

The message of average or poverty is of the devil. He didnt call us to suffer but to have dominion. If any man suffers now , he suffers due to his ignorance.

Psalm 35:27

Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

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God wants you to prosper and He will help you if you tithe, pray, and have faith. Guess what, its the faith part that stops alot of people.

3rd John 1:2 "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth"

Corinthians 9:10-11

"Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?"

Luke 6:38

"Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

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Wow! !

When I wrote the post above, I didn't even make the connection to the verses you added to buttress it, aletheia.

They go perfectly hand in hand.

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@OP

The prosperity of the gospel is not the materialistic false gospel that appeals so much to the masses today. Consider this verses:

Perhaps you will tell me that "blessed" implies have material possessions. What of this scriptures then?

And these:

Do you think that the gospel is a means to materialism? Do you think the reason Jesus of Nazareth died was in order for you to have a bigger bank balance or a new car? You are sadly misled and mistaken.

May the LORD grant you grace to see these things?

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If xtians re to shawn prosperity,then who are those that prosperities re ment for? Unbilivers? No way God is prosperous,he created heaven&earth,plants&animals,sea,air&land.All these are prosperity&success.We browse wit our phones&systems,we pay subscriptions with money,we wear suits,ride cars etc bought with lots of money.How can we not prosper? We cant serve God as a pauper

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Just to add:

I think ttalks post above should also be complemented by this - especially the bit in bold:

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Very Good post; the point of the post is well exemplified by comparing Philemon and Onesimus: Philemon was a christian materially rich and the slave-owner of Onesimus; Onesimus was a christian, materially poor and the slave of Philemon.

I really like this way of putting things.

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And to you Ttalks again,

that collection as was given to the saints was born out of the need to help the saints in Jerusalem. *mark the keyword "NEED"*

Today we as christians are expected to give collections at least always because there are PEOPLE WITH NEEDS EVERYWHERE EVERYTIME EVERYDAY , we dont need to wait until a specific type occurs like disasters et al.

Look at that child in your compound - He has a need , therefore a collection should be made, Look at that widow in the church - She must have a need too, therefore collection should be made, there are a thousand and one persons today who needs our help therfore it is very important that COLLECTIONS ARE MADE TIMELY which is the reason why we give offerings often. God bless you!

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Ttalks,

First we must understand the purpose of Jesus' coming - It was to reconcile Man back to God by bringing him into his original state. Jesus had a specific reason for coming here and this he said

A perfect example is this when he said ". . .my meat is to do the will of Him who sent me and to finish it"and this comment he made when he was hungry and his disciples offered him something which he refused. So shall we now say because he rejected a physical food in his bid to fulfill a spiritual food means the former was not relevant?

Jesus had no time to preach prosperity except thru' few parables, because it was not the issue at hand prior to his death, the issue at hand was the REDEMPTION of the lost soul.

Yes i agree anytime anyday that the major issue was the kingdom of God afterthis something should come next. Recall when he said "seek ye first God's kingdom and its righteous doings and everyother thing shall be added " what are those other things that should be added if properity was not to be included.

I think it is very important we understand that man is a spirit being with material frame in his physical state. Inasmuch as there is a need to give food to the spiritual man there is also the need to give material food to the physical side if man must survive physically again Inasmuch as there is a need to give health to the spiritual man there is also the need to give material health to the physical side if man must survive physically.i am not talking about the FLESH dont get me wrong.

If everything about man was to be spiritual then i say there should be no need to eat physical food, nor wear clothes nor relate with anything physical.

After Jesus had finished feeding the multitude with SPIRITUAL FOOD for 3days, HE HIMSELF SAW THE NEED TO FEED THEM WITH PHYSICAL FOOD and he did this, in our world today we may not be so opportuned to multiply 5loaves and 2fishes to feed 'em 5,000, but we sure need to have something to feed the people we minister too and that is where the need for wealth comes in. God bless you!

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Mt 6:19

Verse 19. Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth] What blindness is it for a man to lay up that as a treasure which must necessarily perish! A heart designed for God and eternity is terribly degraded by being fixed on those things which are subject to corruption. "But may we not lay up treasure innocently?" Yes. 1st. If you can do it without setting your heart on it, which is almost impossible: and 2dly. If there be neither widows nor orphans, destitute nor distressed persons in the place where you live. "But there is a portion which belongs to my children; shall I distribute that among the poor?" If it belongs to your children, it is not yours, and therefore you have no right to dispose of it. "But I have a certain sum in stock, &c.; shall I take that and divide it among the poor?" By no means; for, by doing so, you would put it out of your power to do good after the present division: keep your principal, and devote, if you possibly can spare it, the product to the poor; and thus you shall have the continual ability to do good. In the mean time take care not to shut up your bowels of compassion against a brother in distress; if you do, the love of God cannot dwell in you.

Rust] Or canker, brwsiv, from brwskw, I eat, consume. This word cannot be properly applied to rust, but to any thing that consumes or cankers clothes or metals. There is a saying exactly similar to this in the Institutes of MENU: speaking of the presents made to Brahmins, he says, "It is a gem which neither thieves nor foes take away, and which never perishes." Chapter of Government, Institute 83.

Where thieves do not break through] diorussousi, literally dig through, i.e. the wall, in order to get into the house. This was not a difficult matter, as the house was generally made of mud and straw, kneaded together like the cobb houses in Cornwall, and other places. See ACC for Mt 7:27.

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drop 10 percent for a heaven

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There is no message of material prosperity in the gospel of Christ. The only message in the gospel of Christ is the salvation of the man; the prosperity of his soul;the richness of man towards God;eternal life.

If a man gets the gospel of Christ and accepts it while in a state of physical prosperity, good for him.Let him live his life according to the gospel and continue to do things which do not violate the gospel in making a living.

If a man gets the gospel of Christ and accepts it while in a state of physical non-prosperity, good for him. The gospel has achieved its purpose in granting him eternal life. Let him live his life according to the gospel and continue to do things which do not violate the gospel in making a living. If he ends up doing things in this course which are very normal which lead to physical prosperity, he definitely will be prosperous physically.

The gospel is about man's soul getting eternal life in Christ. It is apart from  physical prosperity. Physical propserity is subject to natural and earthly standards.

And it is also subject to what God's will and purpose is for a man at a particular and every point in time.

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The point here is, There is an idea that the message of prosperity is ungodly or worldly, So let us look at it . There is no middle line , Is the gospel of christ for or against the idea of prosperity. Is there provision for the church ,the hope of prosperity or we just live our lives by whatever we see. or luck?

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I have taught You also consitently that there are no richies in heaven in the after life. we only spend 7 years in heaven!

John 10:10

   The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Eternal life is not in living for ever but a quality of life  It is here now .A life above sickness, poverty,failure and death

Fella said suffer ,suffer for world ,enjoy for heaven. The Lazarus kind of life is not what christ came to die for.

I wonder who the "WE" are.

Well you are right on one thing ,that 3john 1:2 was  not a promise but  a prayer but you were wrong to say he wasnt talking abot material prosperity but that its  spiritual prosperity. The Gk word  euodoo means to have succes as in business

Prosperity is an all round thing: health wise, financial,material,intelect,marital and so on. We can not cut the finacial part of it off it.

Jesus was made poor for us to be rich.The Greek word there: Plouteo means wealth and increase in goods

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Craving for prosperity is one thing different from Praying for prosperity when the intentions are good and born out of sincerity. Dont get it twisted my friend.

@Poster,

My brother, the gospel is a full package which was aimed at bringing man to his perfect design which he lost in the garden of Eden.

These are some of the Full packages:

1. Man was designed to feloowship and have communion with God in spirit since God was a spirit

2. Man was ordained to be prince on earth after YHWH El-loyim which was why he was given dominion over everything on earth

3. Man was built and put in a paradise which had all the best of physical and material things. Gold, diamond, sapphire and every good thing we pray for today so long as it was meant to give God glory.

Gen 2:10-15

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.

11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold.

12(The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.)

13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.

14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.NIV

In another portion of the bible, God said

>>>". . .ask me and i'll give the the riches of the heathens for YOUR POSSESSION

>>>". . .I the Lord, i giveth thee the POWER TO MAKE WEALTH

>>>". . . Honor the Lord with your substance, the shall YOUR BARNS BE FILLED WITH PLENTIFUL AND BOOST"

My God gives PROSPERITY UNTO THE MAN WHOSE HEART IS RIGHT AND SINCERE, prosperity is not wrong. So for someone to say PROSPERITY should be skipped is like saying THE GOSPEL (good news of man's redemption) should be taught incomplete.

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The Gospel message: Is it For or Against the polishing of Shoes?

In case you don't understand the sarcasm what I meant to say is that as the polishing of shoes is irrelevant to the core message of the Gospel so is the having of material prosperity. However the bible does state in no uncertain terms that the craving after material prosperity is a stumbling block to entering the kingdom of heaven.

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Do you know the kind of life that Christ came to give us?

Is it the normal life that everybody has on earth which might include riches or not or is it eternal life which has to do with spiritual prosperity?

The verse above has nothing to do with normal life or what could be included in it; it has to do with eternal life which is the prosperity the gospel of Christ preaches; being rich towards God.

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The bible say we should suffer with him.

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In my understanding,the gospel is not against prosperity

John 10:10

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

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Mr Agbaje, we have consistently taught you on this forum that the gospel of christ has absolutely nothing to do with material prosperity here on earth, the gopsel is the gospel of the kingdom of God were Jesus promised to prepare mansions [wealth/prosperity] for those who beleive and do his will in the after life. It is NOT about prosperity in this life. The verse you quoted to support material prosperity do not support it rather they are talking about spiritual prosperity [soul prospering] and good health. Besides the 3 john 1:2 scripture you quoted is not a promise from God but rather a prayer by John for believers and he was not even praying for material prosperity. If you are in doubt check that passage from other versions of he bible or get a good concordance to get the proper interpretation of that verse.

Please note that i have not said that there is anything wrong with material prosperity which most of us desire but the gospel of christ should not be twisted to say what it is not saying as you could be in danger of leading believers away from the path of salvation [narrow road] to the path of destruction [broad road] which every body would like to take. It is good for peple to prosper materially but they must also use their material possesions to bless others as God directed also the glorious gospel of the our lord Jesus christ should not be polluted with our lust/ greed of worldly material riches which was of little consequence to our redeemer.

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