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UFO's And Christian Beliefs?

I think any up-to-date person will agree that there are very likely extra-terrestial civilizations elsewhere in the universe.

I ask: If it were proved true, would it alter your perception of certain biblical dogmas -

E.g: Remission of sins through death on the cross etc.

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[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/ltbt/let-there-be-truth-v3-n1.jpg[/img]

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http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-495267.0.html#msg6553719

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@ poster, I believe the effect of this U.F.O'S on human and our beliefs is the reason world powers are opposed to having evidence of their existence revealed,

America and all others have been doing and would continue to do ANYTHING to eliminate EVIDENCE and WITNESSES of their existence,

Read the novel DOOMSDAY CONSPIRACY, Sidney Sheldon

You'ld get more information aboput what i'm talking about, Also evident is the confession of different pilots who fought during the world war claiming to see different fighters with different shapes and sizes of jets with incomprehensible kind of speed,but aiming at no one,hence they were termed them FOO-FIGHTERS, Different scientists died mysteriously having had evidence of the U.F.O's existence,

I believe they exist ,

My bit

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The evidence that suggest that aliens exist outside this planet is growing by the day. If it is eventually proven to be true, I wonder how it would affect mankind?

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If you believe in creation by God, then it will not be too difficult to comprehend that the being who put the universe or multiverse in place must have a "science" beyond what we understand as science. He is on a different level. It amazes me to see us discuss UFOs and relate it to our believe in the Christ who in his advent was God living in human flesh. (John1:1-5). I should point out that everything we see physically, or everything we have imagined or will imagine must necessarily have existed in the spirit realm. A chariot of fire saw off Elijah to the heavens - the chariot was pulled by "horses"on a runway before it took off - cue Airplanes, rockets etc.

We marvel at the technology that enabled the Egyptians to build the pyramids or Noah to build his Ark. The bible tells us about a time when superior beings were released on earth in his attempt to get men to worship him, but they went the wrong way enthralled by the beauty of women. These angels or superior beings were sent to live as men and they had intrinsic superior knowledge and accomplished a lot on earth, within the limitations of their earthly enviroment.

If you think about all the planets that exist, why were they created? Did God create them for fun? Just to have empty masses moving in cyclic balance around the sun? I think not. Everything created was for a purpose, because the Creator is so precise, no scientist can ever match him. Think of your own body - every part is different but all serve unique functions. You cannot do without the other without getting imbalance. Many beings exist in those planets and the fact that we do not see them or perceive them does not mean that they do not exist. They exist in their own world which may not need oxygen or human senses. "In my Father's house there are many mansions, " (John 14:2). The world is just one such mansion. There are other mansions but God loves mankind more! They have their own technology, certainly more advanced, but they are all creations of God, only that they exist in another dimension. Are they superior to man? Yes, to the extent that they are spirit beings and can accomplish more than men, but remember that God had ab initio given man the authority on earth over everything. I must also add that the earth plane is the centre of the universe or multiverse. All spirits at one point in time live ( pass through ) on earth, before going to their various planets to exist as spirit beings or "UFos" etc.

In their spirit existence, they reverence God and understand the mysteries of the Godhead more than mankind. Does it take away anything from our christian belief, no. It only means that we strive to receive the understanding of the Holy Spirit, which is above all things, UFOs included.

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Well we could be the ones to visit them! currently there is speculation that one or two of the moons of Jupiter could support life[simple life forms] and jupiter is not light years away.

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Why do we study ancient history?

Yep: Just the way they might be interested in watching our "primitive" ways.

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considering fossilized bacteria has been found on chunks of martian rock its a bit naive for anyone to think we are truely alone in the universe. as far as them visiting us? why would they? they would be much more advance then us and would probably find us barbaric and insignificant.

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We are in the age of awakening now, and all those supposed "mysteries" of existence are already being revealed.All we have to do is continue to keep an open mind and consciousness and things will start falling into place.There is nothing that cannot be known in this universe.The informations are everywhere and freely accessible to those who are ready and willing to search for them.

Reason, faith, belief, all are routes that lead to the same truth.We need to take them all for our continuing spiritual evolution.

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As to the original question you asked about how all this affects such teachings as 'the remission of sin through the death of Christ on the cross', i would say that this is one of such mysteries that one can only accept by faith because ordinarily it could be dismissed as 'unreasonable'.

There are a lot of 'spiritual' mysteries that lie outside our ability to comprehend with our 'carnal' minds. Perhaps that's why the bible is full of metaphors, a lot of which were spoken by the Christ himself. The life and death of the Christ is a mystery. It may also have been a 'metaphor'. 

That's why Faith suffices. Reason would most certainly fail in our attempt to understand the things of God.

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Obviously these are all idle concepts, even though some scientists pass them off as 'theory'.

I am aware that beyond my ability to comprehend are worlds out there that one can try to explain away in terms of 'spirit realms'. Some may prefer to call them extracorporal and extratemporal dimensions. One may even hazard a suggestion that the 'spirit' (of) man inhabits an alternate reality or dimension, where his 'carnal' self, boundaried by space and time, can never enter into. These are just idle interpretations that one can make as a Christian who understands that science is not exactly antichristian, and that Truth must not fade in the light of scientific discovery, if it be indeed Truth.

But science is not infalliable. It too is subject to the same embellishments that have so tainted 'religious' truth over the centuries and across traditions and cultures. The way one contexualises scientific hypotheses, however has very little to do with Spiritual development at the end of the day. Because most of these hypotheses are really just that: suggestions born out of the 'rich' imaginations of those who are so disposed.

My spiritual development is based on faith alone. My 'rich' imagination, my science and my philosophy avails very little when dealing with matters of the 'spirit'. My spiritual development is a journey in which that part of me that is created in the image of the creator is enriched gradually by the revelations that illuminate that part of me that i call my soul, as i stumble and fall in my unrelenting quest to apprehend the mysteries and the Truth of the one i profess as my God. This quest is my reasonable act of worship. What you could call the 'purpose' of my 'earthlife'.

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That's fine. No problems.

But how will you, as a christian, contextualize such "multiple realities" with the spiritual development which i imagine should be the purpose of your earthlife? I am just interested, really.

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No be me suggest am O!

The concept of multiple realities have become increasingly more popular in scientific discourse since people discovered that 'particles' behave weirdly at the level of quantum mechanics. Some religions describe it using less scientific jargon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse (scroll down to the part about multiverse hypothesis in religion and spirituality).

Do i imagine this to be possible? Why not? I have a very rich imagination!

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So Beneli, do you imagine that there are infinite numbers of YOU in infinitie time and space dimensions living out an infinity of different tangential possibilities of destiny simultaenously.

Because that is what you have suggested.

I do not discard the possibility: i need to know if that is what you assert or imagine[b] is possible.[/b]

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@topic,

There have been a lot of suggestions that the UFO phenomena is not new. Even in bible times, there were UFO experiences. The popular book 'Spaceships of Ezekiel' by J.F.Blumrich makes for interesting reading. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/spaceships_ezekiel.htm

One conspiracy theory is that in the 'end time' there will be a lot of UFO activity. Men will say that this is the evidence that man is partly from the stars and that the creation story is just a metaphor for how these aliens genetically modified the beasts, indigenous to earth, in order for them to become 'rational man' and therefore useful to them. And that when these visitors from the stars actually make contact again they will declare themselves to be the 'gods' that 'created' us. Some say that this is the grand deception spoken of in the book of Daniel and in Revelation that will lead even the 'elect' almost astray. Because these visitors will perform miracles and make 'fire' fall from the sky. And they will make man to 'worship' the 'beast' of revelation.

I think that this is a very interesting theory. Because if, indeed, technologically advanced beings where to visit one day and declare themselves to be the 'gods' of the bible, i am sure that a lot of people will believe them. What this theory suggests is that UFO's are actually the 'fallen angels' of the bible.

The possibility that UFO's are actually our descendents come to visit from the future is a discussion that is ongoing in some circles. The thinking is that by the time man has mastered space and time to be able to travel outside of time, he will also have cracked such extra-dimensional mysteries like moving across timelines in parrallel universes. The thinking is that once a time traveller makes contact with a specific timeline, he changes it and in so doing sets in motion an alternative future for that time line-a future in which things are so different from the future from where he visited. That's the current theory regarding time travel and multiple timelines.

The fact remains that as scientific theory turns into reality, people will continue to find that some of the conclusions they had come to regarding what the bible said about those things, were more of embellishments by man as opposed to the truth of what God had said in his revealed word.

The truth is that if God is true, then he will remain true irrespective of the traditions of men and the attempts made to defend Him. If God is not true, then those of us who have chosen to believe in Him, have lost nothing.

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@DeepSight: LMAO no mind Tudor. Even me sef I tear lafter!

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Tudor you are a riot! LOL!!!! This had me rolling on the floor.

Please consider a career as a professional yabbist as per Fela Kuti!!!!

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Everybody wants to write a book these days even the talentless jokers.

I comit a crime i write a book, you escape an accident you get a book deal. . . I had an extramarital affair, i write a book about it.

I lost 10 million in the stock market i publish the story

Geez, we are tired. . . .if you're writing a book it better be good!! else just keep it under your matress or read it to your quadriplegic grandmother.

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@mantraa: beautifully crafted point you have there!

If I were to go back in time and see that all I have believed in according to the Bible is falsehood, then I would have one of three choices:

1. Faith in God no matter what I have seen by the future's technology.

2. Faith in the Future's technology

        2a. Believing that it showed me the same past of mankind, and did not instead deviate into an alternate past which did not lead into my present,

        2b. Believing that it is not an illusion designed by someone from the most extreme future in order to steer us off course

3. Try to see where the two of them agree to say the same thing (Faith in both).

Most likely, honestly speaking, my option will be (3) because there is no proof of infallibility of the Time Travel Methods, as far as I know. How do I know that what is being observed is not (in turn) manipulated by some human beings or aliens at the very end of time, say, who have technology that is higher-dimensioned and more advanced than Time Travel, and want to ensure that some things work out in a particular way due to the "discoveries" about man's cradle and afterwards? Maybe to manipulate man's design and experience for their own benefit?

So, since there is no proof of infallibility for Time Travel, and no other proof of Eden, I will have to see where they rationally agree, I suppose.

Option (3) should be it if I live to see that day, unless it can be shown that the Time-travel methods are absolutely incorruptible.

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What if in 2050 when they invent this time machine and go back in time to the time of the garden of eden to watch as adam and eve eat the forbidden fruit, but find that there was no garden of eden and no adam and eve, Just ancient civilisations at the start of the agricultural revolution?

What if you go back further and see nomadic tribes of hunter gatherers, then other species of humans like homo erectus, austrolopithecus, neanderthal, homo habilis, etc. Would you still hold onto your beliefs in the creation story of the bible?

What if you went back millions of years further and saw with your own eyes that evolution is a fact. Would you still believe that it is not true? How difficult would it be for the religious to change their beliefs even when faced with the cold hard facts. Would you be opened minded enough to accept that the things you have believed in for so long may be proved wrong?

I think it would be great if we could clarify life, the earth, and the universe's true history once and for all and for all to see with no argument.

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@Tudor:

The immaculate conception of Jesus is NOT the only reason He was referred to as God's Son. To understand better what I believe sonship is, you can read through this thread

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-369330.32.html#msg5159346

As for the return of Christ, it's not mine to debate.

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@OP

there is no possible way to answer your question without making assumptions.

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What prejudice?

When it comes to God everybody suddenly needs 'salvation'. I wonder why this god is so hard to please.

The bible clearly states god created man in his own image. How everyone seems to assume aliens have spirits and souls is beyond me.

Since God is sending sacrifices of his relatives to save different species why hasn't he sent his aunt or uncle to die for them fallen angels?

If aliens are discovered it'll be the death of religion because they all assume man as know all be all and ultimate.

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Interesting, but not quite 'it'.

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She didnt suggest that Tudor.

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Answering the OP's question,

IF aliens exist, then they do not need the salvation of Jesus, who came in the form of man to save mankind.

Unless of course, God had alternate plans for their own salvation, and He came in the form of one of their own there as well.

The very fact that it is not clearly inferred in the Bible tells me that God does not really want us overly bothered about it.

Of course, he delights in our quest for knowledge, seeing us discover the universe, the same way a father delights in his child's first words, first steps, and sees how he builds structures with LEGO.

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It"s a free will innerverse , bound by divine law . You are punished " BY " your actions not " FOR "them .

The universe is in divine order .

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And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,GOD gave them over to a reprobate mind ,to do those things which are not convenient.being filled with all unrighteousness,fornication,wickedness,convetousness,maliciousness,full of envy,murder,debate,deceit,malignity; whisperers,backbiters,haters of God,despiteful,proud,boasters,inventors of evil things,disobedient tn parents,without understanding,covent breakers,without natural affection,implacable,unmerciful: who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death,not only do the same,but have pleasure in them that do them.i see pple who enjoy and do the above things i listed in this forum

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Thanks to the Internet there is a lot of info for serious reasoning instead of one sided arguments . Ever heard of the book of " ENOCH "?

here's a site for starters .

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As far as I know it's his directorial

debut. We will know in November

whether it will make him or break him

but going by the hype surrounding the

movie in the US it looks like its going to

be a box office hit.

He also stars in the film as the interviewer.

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^^^ Yes o, Viaro. . . dont know who he is either, but that really really lit me up, just seeing a Nigerian name doing that!

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An asides: I don't know who Olatunde Osunsanmi is; but that he directed that movie puts a smile on my face. There are a lot of Nigerians gaining respectable mention where it matters. Well done, 'tunde!

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Very interesting indeed!!!

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Another interesting theory

UFOs are possibly the fallen angels!

[url]http://www.mt.net/~watcher/ufos.html[/url]

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There is a new movie coming out in

November about alien abductions

that allegedly took place in Alaska.

The name of the movie is the fourth

kind and it is was written and directed

by Olatunde Osunsanmi and stars Milla

Jovovich.

It looks really interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Kind

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See my reply to Jagunlabi in the thread titled "Is God Self Sustaining. . ."

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^^^ Well i must say nothing has altered my perceptions, given that i do not describe myself as a christian.

I am definite that there are many many many other worlds of intelligent civilizations within this very universe.

Anything less, would amount to circumscribing the greatness of God.

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@Deepsight

You seem to have abandoned this thread now, given the correlations we have been able to draw on "UFO's and christian beliefs" i would like to know how the submissions on this thread has altered[if at all ] your perception of the subject matter.

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lo l what truth?, its easy to quote scriptures

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The chinese astronomers of the time,  around 4bc, recorded a supernova where a star exploded and could be seen in the day and night for weeks before the light dissipated. From Isreal it would have appeared to be above the eastern horizon. This event could explain the guiding star over bethlehem. Most astronomical events were considered to be a sign from god, such as eclipses of the sun and moon where "the day shall be turned to night and the moon shall be turned to blood" etc.

I think that ufos are just that, UNIDENTIFIED flying objects. Just because something is unidentified does not mean that it has to extraterrestrial. Ever wondered why most of these are sighted in the vicinity of secret military bases in the desert where top secret flying objects are tested? There are also a lot of strange atmospheric phenomena which are still just being discovered and understood such as ball lightning and sprites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprites_%28lightning%29

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they found fossils of bacteria on mars a few years ago (in 2002), some ancient civilisatons accpted the idea of aliens including most famously the aztec, mayan and seminoles os mesoamerica. to believe we are alone in the universe is egocentric.

"i truely believe we are the west virgna of the universe" - cant remeber which comic said it but it is so true

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UFO's exist for sure, what else?

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If the star of bethlehem was an alien craft then -

1. Were the 3 wise men only imagining that it was leading them in a particular direction or

2. Was it really leading them in that direction in order to bring them to the baby Jesus, who in such an event would clearly have to have been one of the aliens being born as an earthman. . . o dear! now i suddenly understand! No wonder there was an "immaculate conception"! The aliens must have used IVF technology on Mary while she was sleep!

Damn, why didn't we realize this all this while!

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The "star of bethlehem" couldn't possibly have been a star. The bible writers described it as that becos that is how it appeared to them. Poser: how does a plane flying at night appear on the ground?

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the star of bethlehem, ever wondered abt it?, i mean we all know stars cant move, they r fixed in space, so what if that thing wasnt really a star?, the possibilities r endless

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The "Gods" and the extraterrestrial connections.

Watch these videos in HD.

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Flying Vehicles

Clouds

There are 70 verses describing clouds as vehicles

in the Bible

Clouds are the most common descriptions of the flying vehicles of the Elohiym. This is not surprising considering the probable size and density in daylight hours attributed to these objects. The word most often used in the Old Testament for cloud is `anan, pronounced aw-nawn'; a cloud (as covering the sky), i.e. the nimbus or thunder-cloud. The descriptions as a dark cloud, thick cloud, and dark water all allude to a solid object in the sky. Since there were no solid flying objects 2000 to 4000 years ago, and the only things close were thunder or storm clouds, this is a logical relation. For those that may cling to the belief that these are actually clouds, the flight characteristics, glowing at night, and other anomalous behavior, leaves such a narrow view very much in doubt. Perhaps the most important reference to clouds is that Jesus will return with an army in the clouds. If these clouds are not the fluffy kind, but very sophisticated flying craft, as the Bible records, then this would seem to have relevance to properly identifying that army. When Bible text says that Yhovah rides a swift cloud, are we to believe that he is literally sitting atop a cloud speeding through the sky? When the cloud turns to fire at night, are we to accept that it catches on fire, even though clouds can't burn? And when it stays in a stationary position for months, catching fire every night and burning out every morning, are we really talking about a cloud? No, this, or these, are not clouds. They are only named such because no one had ever heard about flying saucers, UFOs, spacecraft or star ships. They didn't even have balloons. The only big things in the sky during that time were clouds, so they called the objects clouds.

Exodus

Splendor Appears In The Craft

16:10 And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud.

Glory is directly associated with the flying craft. The thundercloud-like object flies into the encampment of the Israelis from the desert.

Moses Entered The Vehicle

24:18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

Moses goes up to the craft that is covering the mountain and enters it. Though not the only instance of men entering this craft, it is the first, thus lending more credence to the physical aspects of the craft since it will accommodate humans.

http://www.bibleufo.com/clouds1.htm

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How Do These Vehicles Fly?

The fact that the objects described in the Bible are controlled, flying craft, is borne out by the flight characteristics of those objects. In Bible text the objects associated with the Elohiym are shown to exhibit rapid, prolonged flight, they ascend and descend, and they hover for extended periods. If these objects were just ethereal images created by ethereal beings, these flight descriptions would have no relevance. The fact that the authors wrote about the flight routine of these objects is evidence that they have a distinct physical presence.

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@deepsight

In the light of the above could you let us know your opinion on the "extra-terrestrial God theory"

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, many of the opinions here hv an atom of truth in them,

my own belief is that presently as humans there r so many things we can comprehend, given the perishable nature of our make up, imagine the bible says NO MAN CAN SEE GOD N LIVE!!, but when we die n translate to a higher state or dimension or what ever u may call it, we will b able to see/stand in Gods presence,

i believe we r not alone alone in the universe, n God didnt create such a big empty space 4 nuthin, what do u think we will b doing 4 all eternity in heaven?,

i asked some1 recently, how wud noah/moses/ even apostle peter hv explained a b52/an F22 fighter jet/ even a helicopter had he seen one?

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