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What Does "born Again" and born of "water" Mean?

Most people, including the pulpit-controlled flocks, believe that this concept is a well-defined and specifically mandated pre-condition required for salvation, which is found in scripture and must be achieved before death. They are correct on one point; it is well-defined, but definitely confused, in assuming that this must be accomplished before death in order to receive salvation. The orthodox view is quite simple. If you accept Jesus as your saviour, you are born again. Of course, you don't just disappear, but remain in your physical body and change after death, or when Jesus returns and raptures those fortunate enough to have made that choice.

       It is very difficult to imagine how a Christian can believe one can be born again in this life, just from the lack of logic in the phrase itself. How can one be reborn? The Bible also poses this perplexing question, and answers it, yet those promoting this concept ignore that answer completely. It takes no great effort to find exactly what "born again" means. The phrase only appears three times in scripture. A man, named Nicodemus, once asked the expert in this matter about this concept, and the transcript of that query can be found in John 3:3-8. This is how the event unfolded:

♦ Jesus said "I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

♦ Nicodemus, obviously confused by his declaration, then asked "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

♦ Jesus then answered "I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

♦ And to reinforce the reality of his point, he then added "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

       Ok, that seems pretty simple. We all know the concept of spirit and the Bible is clear as to the meaning. The word spirit in the phrase "Spirit is spirit" is translated from the Greek word pneuma, pronounced pnyoo'-mah, meaning; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze. This certainly agrees with the widely accepted understanding of what spirit means. And, we can see that Jesus clearly describes the nature of "spirit" by using wind as an analogy. It should be noted that the word "tell" in the phrase "but canst not tell whence it cometh" comes from the word eido, pronounced i'-do and means; properly, to see (literally or figuratively).

       So, Jesus is saying the spirit is like the wind; it goes where it does and you can hear it, but you cannot see it. In the simplest of terms; the spirit is invisible. Nothing complicated about that. Jesus simply says that "every one that is born of the Spirit" is like the wind, which you can't see or, therefore, is invisible. Jesus first said that spirit is "not" like flesh, the prime physical component of the human body, which can be seen, and then clearly confirms that anyone, who is "born again" is not flesh, but spirit.

    The above post is NOT my original writing but it makes a whole lot of sense, thought i should share it.

Can anybody explain the part that says one must be born of water

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44 answers

Except ye be born again . . .

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friend,

born of water means supernatural washing/cleansing/sanctifying of the sinner's soul by the word of GOD, done only by GOD (Matthew 19:24-26, John 1:13),  which is why we are saved by The Word of GOD (The Lord JESUS CHRIST - John 1:1. John 1:14, Revelation 19:13), who is GOD, who is The Fountain of Living Waters, "For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water." -Jeremiah 2:13 +++  “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” - Acts 4:12 +++   "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." - Isaiah 43:11

through the hearing of The holy word of GOD, which is the living word (Hebrews 4:12)

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." - Ephesians 5:25-27 (the church in view here is The Lord JESUS CHRIST'S Eternal Church /bride consisting of all holy prophets, apostles and all true believers who HE has mercifully saved, of which HE / GOD, is The Chief Corner Stone -Ephesians 2:20)

Being cleansed by the holy word of GOD, when GOD applies it in HIS mercy to the heart of a person, thereby giving him or her eternal life is highlighted by these verses of holy Scripture:

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." - John 17:17

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." - Romans 10:17

"For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh." - Ezekiel 36:24-26  (this again is referring to GOD's Eternal Church consisting of all who GOD truly mercifully saves)

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" - 1 Peter 3:21

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http://media.chick.com/preview.swf

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Dont be a whiner, its making me cringe, so commenting is now known as criticising.

Anyway from one empty vessel to another empty vessel, I raise a glass to you and say; Thank you.

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Just as the saying goes. "An empty vessel makes loud noise" you only criticise but have nothing to offer.

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^

No can do. Am not about to spoon feed you for you to retch it up

Go figure or find out what it means when a woman breaks water

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^^^^

The point is the fact that the word is the spiritual water. And being born of water is being born of the word.

Maybe you should explain being born of water to us.

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^

Why this obsession to continually obfuscate. It is pharisee' that deliberately pull scripture out of context.

Without going beyond the scope of OP's question "Born of water" in the John 3:1-5 has nothing to do with "washing of water by the word" or "bodies washed with pure water" but more of bringing into existence

The dual; the physical born man and spiritual born man will see the Kingdom

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Water baptism doesn't save . As you rightly quoted. The word of God is spiritual water .

Ephesians 5:26

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Hebrews 10:22

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

John 15:3

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

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^

It was a situation of two can play the game but I can play it better between Nicodemus & Jesus

Nicodemus tried to ridicule Jesus with a reference to how can a grown man go back to the womb

Whereas Jesus graphically went a step further by referencing the water in the womb that gets broken before any MAN enters earth

Nicodemus no doubt got the lowdown in ”except a man is born of water et al"

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I believe you are conflating two different things.

Being born again is to be born of the Word.

(1Pet 1:23 [KJV])

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Being born of water is to be born of flesh and blood.

. . .but is "the word most times represented by water"? I think that should read "sometimes".

Eph 5:26, Titus 3:5, John 15:3

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Part of the misunderstanding of those critical verses in John 3 is that we often miss the "hebraisms and parallelisms" in the discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus; both of whom were Jews operating in a Jewish milieu with Jewish thought patterns.

When we understand this, then the verses become clear and are not obfuscated by the inherited traditional interpretations that seem to suggest that being born again is of human effort: Indeed the very first chapter of John's gospel makes this clear but we often miss it!

(John 1:12-13 [KJV])

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood (born the first time), nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.(born again or born a second time)

With this in mind the discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus becomes self-evident.

(John 3:3-7 [KJV])

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Thus we note the parallelisms:

1. Except a man be born again - The Amplified translation has this as :Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above).

2. Nicodemus was confused and thought of it as physical rebirth

3. To which Jesus in setting him aright made use of parallelisms to underscore and emphasize the truth:

a. "Except a man be born of water. . ." parallels "That which is born of the flesh is flesh"

b. ". . .and of the Spirit" parallels "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

And indeed that "born of water" is synonymous to "born of the flesh" is elucidated by the same John here:

(1John 5:6 [KJV])

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

A passage that parallels this other one:

(John 1:14 [KJV])

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

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I tot to be 'born of water' means to be baptized. is this wrong?

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No it's not. That is a pretext and a diversion from the context where the text came about or originated from

The meaning of this particular instance "born of water" is simple and clear without any need to obfusticate

Substantiate or support your claim with texts that being born of water is to be born of the word. The word is represented most times by water

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Being born of water is to be born of the word. The word is represented most times by water

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^

I also hope he's just taking some time off o, na so them pilgrim, viaro do us. I've being meaning to ask about InesQor too. Abeg if you guys change username, make una dey inform house na.

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Dont think the obsfuscating was deliberate but more of an Albert Einstein's “If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”.

The intended meaning of the very important teaching got lost in the communication because the background of the relevant verse was not understood well enough

OP's question was "What Does "born Again" and born of "water" Mean?"

Simply "born Again" is as Pastor AIO revealed and born of "water" is come out of a womb

Remember the verse is a reply to Nicodemus' sarcasm in John 3:1-5

where he asked "How can a man be born when he is old? Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

The qualifiers for MAN to enter into the kingdom of God are; be born of water and of the Spirit.

He that entered not by the door (i.e. born of water) is a thief and a robber and clearly had got in some dubious and questioning way

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I miss my bro OLAADEGBU sha.

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I think that the responses of favcom and joomiegal and above all Olaadegbu highlight the fact that the phrase 'born again' is highly misunderstood. Even in spite of Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus. To be born again is simply to be born in the spirit. When the Spirit is activated then you can begin to operate in the kingdom of Heaven. I don't see how anyone can read it as anything other than that.

All the '4-steps' etc that Olaadegbu is coming out with is simply obsfuscating this very important teaching. In fact confusing the teaching with added concepts thus veiling the original meaning seems to me like devil's work.

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@OLAADEGBU

Thanx for your response, while i agree with your post i don't think it hits the nail on the head. I believe the true gospel of Jesus Christ centred around love, Love for God and Love for our fellow men. Love for God and christ can also be demonstrated by love for our fellow men. This i believe should be the central theme of christianity and this is what our churches should be practising and preaching, unfortunately all churches have gone astray over the centuries and the true gospel is buried under church doctrine and man made laws being mistaken for the word of God. The truth is that our churches don't demonstrate true love to us they are more interested in our tithes, offferings and thanksgiving. This should not be so. the church leadership is also interested in dominating the lives of their congregation through manipulative preaching and quoting the bible out of context to suit their desires. Honestly i am fed of church doctrines, even though i still attend church from time to time i get more spiritually fufilled when i do private devotion or bible study on my own.

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I highlighted the word I feel has been banged about by almost every religious person without understanding the real meaning of who a Christian is.  You may peruse the track below to get an understanding of the meaning of the word:

The questions are often asked, “Who is a Christian? How do I know a Christian if I meet one?  Does every Matthew, Luke, or John pass for a Christian?  Is everyone who raises up his hand in response to a preacher’s call to repentance a Christian?  Does everyone who passes through the church isle to the altar pass for a Christian?  Are all those in church pews during church services Christians?  Who is a Christian?  Finally you may ask, “Am I a Christian?”

A soul winner on evangelism met a drunk drifting down a lane.  In his attempt to help him discover the true purpose of living’ he asked, “Are you a Christian?”  The answer came quick and sharp “What do you think I am? A Pagan?”  This is a pitiful point.

A brilliant preacher full of energy and zeal got the pass mark of his congregation. But his life at home showed a pattern of pride and jealousy found in the fallen angel - Lucifer.

A gifted and talented lady-soloist sings like an angel and prays like a prophet but she talks and acts with thunder and volcano in her voice.  Her red-hot temper, contentiousness and confusion are marks of her presence at home or at work.  Are these Christians?  A ‘Niagara’ of stormy words is an indication of the absence of Christ in the heart.

Being a Christian is not a new label: It is a new life.  The word ‘Christian’ first occurred in the New Testament.  It was not in the Old Testament.  “The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch” (Acts11:26).  From the first use of a word, the true meaning and significance of the word become clear.  Disciples were called Christians.

‘Disciple’ is a prominent word in the New Testament.  It did not have any place in the Jewish Religion.  One of the disciples in Antioch referred to as a Christian was in Jewish religion (Galatians 1:13) before he became a Christian.  Living by the Mosiac code of “ordinance, touch not, taste not, handle not,” the ceremonial washing in holy water is ignorance of true discipleship and Christianity. Christianity centres on Jesus Christ - His love, life and light. A Christian therefore is the person who lives the life of Christ as revealed in the New Testament.

The New Testament opens with Jesus Christ who saves from sin (Matthew 1:21) and closes with Jesus Christ, the King who will come quickly - Revelation 22:20. Christ died to make you a Christian.  He did not have to die to make you a churchgoer; you can do that on your own.  But you cannot overcome sin in your natural human nature.  Christ died to suffer for you-through Christ’s merit.  If you confess your sins and ask for pardon and grace you will be forgiven.  Peace and joy will come into your heart.  You will never be the same again.  Christ died to make you live - through definite faith in His precious Blood; your heart and life are changed.  Christ died to reconcile you to God.  Through His meritorious sacrifice, a love relationship is established between you and God. Christ died to give you a new heart and life like His.  You can only enjoy a new heart at the expense of another.

The Christian life radiates the beauty of Christ’s lifestyle - humility, obedience, love, integrity and newness of life.  Check up if you are a Christian.  If not, why not? “Be not deceived: God is not mocked: For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap” (Galatians 6:7).  Remember that “not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven.”

You can decide to confess your sins to God today and repent - make a wholehearted change of life.  Ask for pardon from God in the Name of Jesus, the only one Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5).  Believe God for His mercy.  Changed and transformed, begin to live a Christian life.

1. Pray everyday especially before you go out in the morning and before you sleep in the evening.

2. Read the Bible everyday especially in the morning before you begin the day and before you sleep in the evening.  (Start with the gospel according to John)

3. Fellowship with Bible-believing Christians.

4. Be conscious of the presence of Jesus EVERY TIME; therefore, do not do whatever will displease Him.

5. Send for more tracts to give to your friends as you share your testimonies with them.

http://dclm.org/Resources/ConversionandAfter/tabid/121/Default.aspx

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@OLAADEGBU

I am not into church doctrine, for you to know my stand point as a christian i would refer you to my thread on the topic http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-148850.0.html i am seriously contemplating promoting a christian movement based purely on true teachings of christ and the examples left by the apostles. The true message of christ as been seriously diluted by the church.

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If you had patiently and painstakingly read it through to the last paragraph where it said "what to do if you reject the free gift of forgiveness", then i'll suggest that you click on the link of the consequence of your decision.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/goodperson.shtml

Moreover, the difference between the natural man and the supernatural man is like the differences between the first Adam and the last Adam.  Read the following revelation knowledge:

The natural man is a person living under the control of fleshly passions, the sensual and depraved part of man in contrast with the rational part.  He is the animal man as opposed to the spiritual man.  He has no sense of spiritual values neither does he desire them.  He counts it the highest wisdom to live for this world and carnal pleasures.  Spiritual things are foolishness to him, he cannot see their supreme excellence due to animal appetites and being spiritually dead. 1Cor.15:44-46; James 3:15; Jude 19; Gal.5:19-21; Rom.1:29-32; 1 Cor.6:9-11; Col.3:5-10; Eph.2:1-9

In contrast, the spiritual man lives under the control of the Holy Spirit and minds the things of the Spirit.  He has the mind of Christ and discerns and esteems spiritual things above the sensual.  He is a new creature and resurrected from death in trespasses and sins.  The lower animal passions have been crucified and put off.  1Cor.3:1; 9:11; 14:37; 15:44-46; Gal.5:16-26; 6:1; 2Cor.5:17-18; Eph.2:1-9; 4:22-24; Rom.8:12-13; Gal.2:20; 5:24; Col.3:5-10.

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@OLAADEGBU

I just read the link you provided and it says nothing about being born again or salvation, it is biblical gynastics like this that leaves poorly schooled xtians confused and in fear. Besides obeying the ten commandents has never been a recipe for being born again. I know a lot of pastors/christians assume they know what it is to be born again but i am not so sure they really know what it means.

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@KunleOshob,

Just as Nicodemus who was a religious ruler could not comprehend nor understand what the concept of being born again means this applies to the many millions of religious leaders and philosophers in the world today.

By being born again Jesus was defining the demarcation between a natural and spiritual man.  A natural man is born of the flesh and blood which comes from the first Adam and cannot inherit the kingdom of God, while the spiritual man is born of the Last Adam, which is by water and of the Spirit of God.  The term water is used metaphorically for the Word of God, such as the cleansing by the Word of God (Jn.15:3; Eph.5:26).  Since men are cleansed and born again by the Word of God (James 1:18; 1Pet.1:23).

If you are not sure that you are born again, answer the following question on the weblink to know where you stand.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/goodperson.shtml

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The word "squeamish" has nothing to do with my postings. The basic question is does God require the sheddiing of the blood of his son to wash away the sins of his creatures? If your answer is Yes, then I am willing to discuss with you on this issue. The issues you raised of God creating laws that allow animals to feed on other animals to survive can be analysed but that will divert from the main topic of my post. In addition, it will strech us into discussing what constitutes life, the origin of animal souls, what was the cosmic order when God created all these things and wheather or not the apparent warfare in nature is the way it was originally or wheather an interference happened with the creators cosmic order. It will require volumes for us to exhaustively discuss these various issues. That is why at the moment, I am inclined to discuss the main point of my post if you disagree with it. Hopefully, later on, other issues you raised will be examined. Stay blessed.

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I also want to point out that when Jesus compares spirit to the wind he is not making the point that it is invisible. What he says is that we do not see where it has come from or where it is going. In other words we cannot predict it. It's action is spontaneous. It is not subject to any of our numerous types of conjecture.

This however is different for the flesh. You see the flesh coming from a mile off. You can always predict that a greedy man will eat all the food he can with no thought for anyone. You can always predict that a thief cannot see money on a table and not reach for it. You can even then go on to predict exactly how he will spend it if you know him well enough. This is because the workings of the flesh operate according to certain laws. Trapped within those laws you cannot escape but are bound to whatever fate you are heading towards. These laws can be expressed as some neurosis or the other.

The spiritual being is free and acts according to the requirements of the moment not according to some wrong preconception.

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But surely God created this world and the laws by which his creatures strive and survive. If there is anything that is obvious about this world it is that Life feeds on Life. The sheer fact that we are here today, bouyant and energetic suggests that much life has been lost. How many Goats, cows, and chickens have died so that you can be here today to share this conversation with us? How many Gazelle die so that the Lionnesses can maintain their pride? We too when our time is up we (our bodies and our blood) will become food for worms and maggots which in turn will become food for birds and chickens which in turn will become food for other creatures. Even as we still live our blood is food for mosquitos.

I don't know where you've derived this idea that God is squeamish from but I see no evidence for it.

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@Lady

Well the bases for my posting the thread in the first instance is that i am not sure the church's stand on this issue is completely accurate. Some church denominations don't even recognized the concept of being "born Again" Please note that i am not saying the church definition is wrong, what i am saying is that i suspect it is incomplete or inaccurate. i have come to discover that a lot of practises and doctrines presented to us as the word of God in churches are actually doctrines of men. Or man's mis-interpretation of the word of God, so there is a need to carry out independent studies/ research of what the Bible really says

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@lafile

The gospel reported Jesus as having used the expresion, "born again." If so then it is not a Christian(church or religious) concept. Jesus was not a Christian(He did not belong to any religion), therefore it is wrong to labell concepts introduced by Jesus as Christian concepts.

Concepts, like "rapture" which was introduced by the Christian churches, are Christian concepts; but concepts introduced by Jesus are Divine concepts given to mankind, and they don't belong to any church.

Everybody is welcome to read the words of Jesus and examine them in the light of his/her own understanding. Jesus words are not meant to be understood only in the light of the present Christan doctrine.

Jesus did not start any religion, He gave man His words, irrespective of their race, religion, and gender.

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@ Justcool

What OLAADEGBU wrote was an explanation of the christian concept of being born again. And since it is a christian concept, he used a christian explanation. All you need to do is read Hebrews 9: 1-28 for better understanding.

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Two terms coined by men.

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@Backslider

You didn't quote that scripture fully. The full quotation is:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The scripture says that God gave His son, that means that God sent His son. It did not say "that God killed His son"

The reason for God giving(sending) His son is that we may listen to Him and believe Him. Therefore the important thing is to believe which entails living accordingly, and not His murder. That scripture clearly says, "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." To believe in Him is to believe His words and live accordingly! It did not say, "that whoever believes in His death shall not perish!

I am happy that m_nwankwo has given you further clarification.

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Justcool is correct. It is only evil and its products that require blood for their activities. The belief that the shedding of blood is rquired for the remission of sins is false on several accounts. First it presents God as a blood thirsty vampire that require the blood of his son to wash away the sins of his creatures. Such belief is accusing God to be a murderer. It is nonsense for the creator to degree that murder is a sin and evil and yet goes on to contadict his own laws by using murder as a means to save mankind. How can evil (murder) bring salvation (good). Can an evil seed produce good fruits? Their is no justification for murder either as an end in itself or a means to an end. A god that requires blood to save his creatures, contradicts his own laws, mocks at justice is not the true God. The attributes of the Almighty God include justice, love, perfection, immutability, omniscience, etc and the murder of Jesus contradicts these attributes. People seem to forget that God is the living Law, the living Justice, the living Love and there is no way God will negate himself. Therefore God is the source of all his commandments and that is why it is impossible for God to contadict his commandments. Simply put, GOD CANNOT COMIT SIN AND THE MUDER OF HIS SON IS THE GRAVEST SIN EVER COMMITED.

When individuals, nations and races are punished, it is not God that punishes them, the laws of God ensures that each recieve the consequences of his activities. Thus, what is regarded as punishement is the returning of the harvest of the seeds they sowed. It is a reaction to the actions they once sowed in their words, thoughts, actions, motives etc. That men have short spiritual memory and thus forget the evil seeds they have sown does not prevent, mitigate or annul the consequences of our deeds. What a man sows he reaps, and their are no exception. The sowing and reaping is not just a phrase, words but it is the law of God. Herein lies the immutability of the laws of God. Jesus was murdered because of the Truth he is , the Truth that he brought to mankind. Men particularly the religious leaders at that time didnot like the Truth because the Truth that is Jesus and which he expressed in his teachings were setting men free from the fetters of religious dogma and spiritual inertia. That undermined the earthly power and fame of the religious leaders. Thus the conspired, plotted, and finally brought the physical death of the son of God. In all these men were aided by darkness in person, that is lucifer. Mankind opened themselves to the currents from lucifer and became willing tools in the hands of Lucifer. That this murder is now elevated to a sacrifice necessary for the salvation of humanity is another luciferian doctrine for it diverts men from focusing on the words of Jesus in which salvation lies. Recognition of the the words of Jesus and obedience to them is what is needed for the remission of his sin. The blood of Jesus atoned for non of mankind sins but burdened mankind with a dastardly crime.

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@justcool

You are wrong The bible says for God so loved the world that HE GAVE his only begotten Son. If God did not give there was no way we could have the remission of sin.

You must understand that without the Shedding of Blood there will be no single remission. You better be prepared for so many blood issues because The Church was born with a lot of Blood.

If God Sheds Blood who will Judge Him You? Which court will you take Him to?

When God sent the Flood in the Times of Noah and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah what was that.

Ok remember that God Killed thousands because David Just Simply Numbered the Children of Isreal.

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Please stop preaching this gibberish which presents God as a murderer! God does not shed innocent blood in-order to forgive man. To shed an innocent blood is a sin and against the laws of God: "thou shall not kill." Are you saying that God sins and disobeys His laws just to save man.

The killing of Jesus was a murder committed by mankind. It is a great sin and salvation did not come from this murder. Salvation comes from living the words of Jesus, i.e. obeying the laws of God. Jesus saves by His words(the Truth). Whoever lives in His words will find salvation.

God does not shed innocent blood! God is not a murderer!

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@KunleOshob,

God has created us as tripartite beings, which means that we are spirits, we have souls and we live in a physical body.  The physical body is this shell or house we live in, the soul is the seat of our intellects, wills, and emotions and we also have a spirit body.

In Gen.2:7 God formed Adam out of the dust of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life and he became a living soul.  That is, Adam lived and became aware of his self .   This shows us that our self is our soul, which manifests as our mind, our will and our emotions.  Our spirits have a shape or body that corresponds to our physical body. 2Cor.12:2-4; Rev.4:1-2 which shows that a person can be separated from their physical body.

Adam was the only man made in the image of God.  He could communicate with God.  Adam could interact freely with the spirit world as easily as he could in the physical world through his spiritual body.  He communicated and communed with God easily in the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day.  He had a conscious awareness of his spiritual body just as he had of his physical body.  His soul which was conscious of his intellect and will, controlled both his spiritual and physical bodies.  God gave him authority over all other creatures both spiritual and physical to subdue them and have dominion over them except for humans.

The devil did not have a physical body to operate in this three dimensional world and he came to Eve and Adam in the body of a serpent to deceive them.  He made them to doubt the Word of God with their minds, to desire the fruit of the tree of knowledge of evil and good with their hearts and to disobey God with their wills, this was the beginning of  the philosophies of man’s rebellion against the wisdom of God.  As soon as they disobeyed God’s command, spiritual death took place.  Adam was no longer consciously aware of his spiritual body.  The process of physical death also started and they were destined for eternal death.  Essentially death began physically, spiritually and eternally.

You can see the effect of the choice of Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  As soon as they ate of the fruit they became spiritually dead, that is, they were no longer consciously aware of their spiritual bodies and thus could not commune or communicate with God as they have always done.  At this juncture, they sewed fig leaves to cover their Unclad bodies as the glory of God had departed.  This was the beginning of religion, trying to cover up our short comings and trying to please God with the works of our hands.  Instead of the order of spirit, soul and body it became soul, body and spirit.  The spirit had to take a back seat and do as the soul and body commanded.  At the fall of man, the mysterious link between the spirit of Adam and of God was destroyed and thus ending Adam’s free communication with God.  Heb.4:12 All of mankind inherited this spiritual death as we all have the image of Adam.  But thank God for the last Adam who removed the sting of death.

God had to come down and slaughter an animal, shed its blood, showing Adam and Eve that the shedding of an innocent blood will only suffice in the interim, as it will only cover the sin and make atonement for their souls.  The last Adam had to come, who was the Logos that was with the Father and who was the second Person in trinity, became human and the perfect sacrifice and substitute that will take away the sin of the world. Jn.1:1-3, 14, 29

When we receive the Truth personified who is Jesus Christ into our lives we become born again. Jn.1:12.  We then have the Truth personally dwelling in us when the Holy Spirit the third Person in trinity, comes into us at rebirth as we accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord, our spiritual body is reborn or regenerated so that we can commune with and worship the Lord as Adam did before the fall.  The proof that we communicate with God through our human spirit with the help of the Holy Spirit is clearly demonstrated in Jn.4:23-24

Only a spirit can communicate with the spirit world and in this case to worship God the Father who is a Spirit.  When we become true Christians the link between our human spirit and God is activated only when God chooses to use it for His glory such as:

1. To give understanding of the scriptures;

2. To make our hearts aware of His presence;

3. To give us discerning of spirits

4. To exercise it during ministration, .

5. For spiritual warfare,

6. To worship Him in Spirit and Truth, etc

Our spiritual bodies are the link between us and the spirit world. And your soul will determine which one you will link up with.  With God and His angels in His service or with Satan and his demons in his service.  The spirit world cannot be seen or measured with the natural senses and this explains why atheists are at loss here.

For us to be reconnected with God and have sweet fellowship with Him we have to be born again of the Word of God that abides forever. (1 Peter 1:23)  Jesus Christ has come to seek and to save the lost, His first coming was not to judge but to save but His second coming will be to reap with a sickle, separating the sheep from the goats.  A point of reference is what happened at the global flood of Noah.

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Over the years, the Church has not understood the issue of salvation. There has been this 'do it yourself gospel.

Now that has been the idea of the Church. But the bible has a defferent thing to tell us.

Everything favcom mentioned in the above quote is called "work". Anything that we do is a work. Now, the scriptures say in Gal. 2:16-

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Ephesians 2:8-

"For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God"

We can see that the faith that saves us is not even our faith (noun for believe- in greek), it is Christ's faith. Thats because faith itself(ours) is work.

1Thessalonians 1:3

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Being born again means that God has saved you! But not because you did something but because you were chosen (destined) unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:5-

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will.

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I understand that there are two aspects to the human being. The physiological and the spiritual. We have been born in the flesh from our mother's womb but some are yet to be born spiritually. Just like the physical body has eyes for seeing physical things, the spiritual body has 'eyes' without which you cannot see the kingdom of heaven. Just as the physical body has legs to walk into the place where you want to go, so too without the spirit is is impossible to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

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[quote author=favcom It's a simple thing if you really want to be born again. It means you repent of your sins, turn away from them, accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice for your sins, accept Him as the LORD and saviour of your life

[quote][/quote]

While i do not dispute this  statements you just made, could point out to me were "born again" is so defined in the bible?? I know what the church defines it to be, but the question is that is that the biblical definition?? We need to start seperating doctrine of Men from Word of God to truly appreciate the true Gospel of our lord Jesus christ.

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Having seen your other posts I'm not surprised by this. Why are you confusing yourself? It's a simple thing if you really want to be born again. It means you repent of your sins, turn away from them, accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice for your sins, accept Him as the LORD and saviour of your life and promise Him you'll never go back into your sins. If you did this sincerely in faith, and not continue to confuse yourself and others, you'll experience something difference in your life. You'll experience salvation. It is this experience that Jesus calls being born again. Good luck

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Jesus won't judge him but the Words that Jesus spoke will judge him.

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