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What If Christianity Was A Sham?

Guys what will you be? what will the world be? if we later found out that Christianity was a sham! that the gospels were craftily written and selected to blend alltogether? that Jesus actually had sex with Mary Magdalene? or he never existed at all? and that all was just hyper rated stuff to combat judaism or islam?

I think everyone will be messed up!

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The devil is trying to use you to plant the seed of doubt in Christians by sending subliminal messages coated with lies from hell.

And what if Christianity was true after all and you find yourself and all the other atheists and unbelievers at the gate of hell waiting for your turn to get in where you will be tortured by worms, demons and fire before being transferred to the infamous Lake of Fire where you will burn for eternity.

YOU NEED DELIVERANCE!

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I read some stuff a coupla pages back 'bout the justification of the bible vis a vis prophecies of the old testament, the time gaps between the utterance and fulfilment, and the structure thereof.

And another paragraph or two pertaining to the randomness or otherwise of the known universe.

Now I know I'm gonna piss a lot of people (creationists and evolutionists) off by saying this, but please, take your comments, and stick it where the sun don't shine.

There are billions of people on earth - there might be more on an undiscovered planet north-west of Pandora, we don't know - all we do know (most of us anyway), is that every Lashonda and Latoya's got a right to live life free of stress. And if belief in and laying of offerings to certain fungi helps them achieve it - as long as belief in said fungus doesn't drive them to intentionally (or otherwise) cause harm (mental, physical, emotional, social) to another, multo bene! In that vein also, they shouldn't tell (read: yell at) others that anything but their way leads to an after-lifetime of damnation.

Religion should be about peace and co-existence. Anything other than that and we are no better than carnivores.

That said, it doesn't mean that religion gets it right all the time (see Galileo v. The Catholic Church).

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You have very well sumed it up. . . .

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Mr Olabowale, The word Karma was an eastern idea - both Hinduism and Buddhism, but the concept is a universal concept. It was incorporated into Christianity (although it was not called Karma), but the new testament contains the verse " You shall reap what you sow". That is Karma.

Besides Christianity was formulated from a fusion of Roman Pagan beliefs, Judaism and a some middle eastern and far eastern doctrines. Meanwhile Islam is just Plagiarism of Christianity, it was an opposition to Christianity, to stop the Europeans from conquering and colonizing the middle east. Their holy book the Koran depends on the assumption that you must have read the bible, because it would be difficult to understand it without having a background information from the bible. In fact the practice of Islam today was very similar to the Early Catholic Church with the exception of Idols, images and saints. The rights were very similar, Bowing and Kneeling on the floor (there were not chairs then), counting of Rosary, Lent (ramadan), even the way the women dress were similar.

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karma, a hindu idea. at least not a chrsitian idea. karma or no karma, you are a disbeliever and Islam is bound to be victorious.

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To me Christianity and its off-shoot (Islam) is a sham, it is the greatest deceit foisted on mankind and those that foisted it have left it for us (third world countries) to expend our energies on while they expend their time and energies on greater quests in life. The two religions were used as vehicle of conquest, colonization and exploitation of weaker societies.

It there is anything like karma, i hope it will catch up on the Romans that designed and imposed Christianity and the Arabs that imposed and brought Islam.

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@Topic

Nice one.There are times when i've asked myself this question repeatedly.I do believe there is a God that created the universe.I do believe in Jesus Christ and the new testament.

What i don't believe in are churches of nowadays e.g

(1)Roman Catholicism is a sham (a scam in fact).Same with other related churches (Anglicans,Vincentians and so on).These are churches that tailored Christianity to suit Roman requirements.Most of their practices are completed diverse from Christianity.I've never heard of the Pope,Cardinals and any other "highly esteemed leaders" being mentioned in the bible.How about rosaries?Where did those come from?Jesus never mentioned anything about rosaries.Neither did Moses or Elijah.How about prayers to Virgin Mary and other "Saints"?Let me leave it here.He who has brains, let him think.

(2)New world churches (protestants) of these days are shams.Most of them are money making organizations.You hardly hear them preaching true gospel anymore.What you see now is "progress teachings" , "laying of hands", "miracle nights" and "prophesies".Concerning their miracles, i wonder why it has to be a fan fare.Jesus walked through the streets and healed the lames,blind,dumb,paralyzed etc. That is how you know real miracles and not all those scams they pull on TV.

Nuff said.

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I miss shahan.

@ topic. Wishful thinking. Long and fine-sounding arguments are only what they are : long and fine-sounding, and unfortunately do not change the facts. However, it's ok - Foolhardiniess is nothing new to God. In fact, as God has given each person the power of free-will, foolhardiness cannot be avoided. I can only but feel sorry for those deluded by their own "knowledge" and "wisdom". The same kind of sorry I would feel for a drunk man doing 160mph, whilst arguing that he is not drunk. 

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judgement day dey come, keep posting sh^t ok, keep it up, we re omo

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I THINK THE LADY WOULD LIKE AN ANSWER

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GAMES MUSLIMS PLAY

When the question was asked why men and women do not pray in the same mosque, the above individual collapsed in a fit of paranoia:

You can draw your own conclusions!

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freedom of speech i guess

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Christianity is The Biggest Sham Ever Created

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batu,

christianity is the real idolatrous religion. You worship jesus( a mere disciple of God) and u claim to worship God, U are not different from an Ogun,Sango worshipper cos they believe in God through this medium.

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sham? then what would be the point living? were would u end up after death?

Christianity A Sham, doubt it to da core!

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, we are most miserable

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babyearly. the human generation has been decieved into many things . am sure that the lord is just waiting and waiting patiently, Judgement day will be a big surprise, thats why i dont judge people by their believe or culture, lord have mercy

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What if xtianity was a sham? Then I would be very grateful to whosoever brought it about for making me learn and acquire so wonderful attributes and knowledge which a great many pple and nations have used to their advantage. I also would surely like to meet who it was that wrote the bible and find out how he came about such a repertoir of knowledge and wisdom. So nothing lost really.

But then what if XTIANITY IS NOT A SHAM? Then wot a serious problem you have put urself into. Because all the things you have said and blasphemed against God will testify against you on the judgement day. And O, what a weeping and wailing as the lost (which would include you) are told of their fate. O, you'll cry for the rocks and the mountains (to hide you), you will pray for forgiveness but your prayer will be too late.

So why wait and gamble with your life when you can get the best of both worlds- salvation plus its attendant benefits on earth, and eternity in heaven only thru JESUS. Nothing to lose but everything to gain!

Dont join the unfortunate who would rather wait to find out the error of their ways, for then it will be too late. So I invite you to receive Jesus into your life today and let the 'what if' take care of itself.

God bless you

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I think we should have a "how many ways can Pascal be twisted" competition. Dibs on the atheist and pop-culture Gods versions

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If Xtianity is a sham. I'd rather take my chance with it now than to find out later that it was real and i lost out. But its no sham. The Holy spirit is so real

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Quote from Dblock,

On what basis, there are so many contradictions and uncertainties in the good Book.

I better go to church tommorow, I've strayed away from christianity for a very long time, I might just become an Athiest.

just saw your post and decided to respond to you. I admire the way you've argued and discussed on this forum, however, it would be really nice if you could have an assurance of faith - and that can only come by knowing the God of the bible for yourself. True christianity is not about going to church. You probably might have heard that, but its really true. I for instance was in a circumstance where i couldn't attend church for months. It didn't weaken my relationship because i was still able to maintain my communication with God. Not that going to church isn't relevant. However, things are gonna get much more complicated and anti-faith in the world in the years to come, that it will take them that know their God, to be strong and stand firm. Christianity is real; some of us have been on the outside before, and have come in - and can testify to the truth.

Yeah, like you said, on a cursory glance at the bible, there'd seem to be many apparent inconsistencies, but in truth, that's what they are; apparent inconsistencies. The bible is such a huge book that anyone can reference a scriptural verse to make any point they want to. Even the devil did that. However there are principles for bible study. Scripture must be interpreted with scripture, and it must be 'a little here, a little there' Is.28;9-10. A detailed and thorough study via an accurate understanding of the bible will confirm to one what it is; the Word of God - flawless and true.

If you don't fully understand the gospel message you can try starting up from there, looking up the book of Romans, and if you respond to it you'll find understanding beyond what you experience now. At that time, it wont be about arguing for (i.e. to gain) knowledge, but arguing from knowledge. Because the One will be in you, and will lead you into (the knowledge of) all truth. (1John 2:20,21 & 27). Cheers.

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Once again Pastor Nferyn answered my well research work, with the usual Two worded Mumble.

What exactly is TOE, and where does tee trunks come from.

In your last post you haven'y answered anthing, ut simply replied, with No and Yes wherever convinient. Your reasoning gets more pathetic everytime. You always speak of assertions and "Begging the question" whatever that means. Well I simply pointed out the obvious this time around, and you couldn't even reply to it with the least bit of intellect, but with mumbles. You're getting Senile, men, take a break.

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it, what do you mean by biological complexity [/i]and [i]what [/i]am I to explain?

1. natural selection isn't the only mechanism in evolution

2. natural selection works on natural genomic variability, which is mainly caused by 2 processes: sexual recombination and mutations. Mutations can have several causes, but the main cause of mutations is DNA copying errors.

Upon that variability, the processes of natural selection and sexual selection work. This is basically what evolution is; a change of allele frequencies within populations over time.

Drake's equation. Anyway, it could very well be that there exist multiple extra terrestrial civilisations concurrently, but due to the vastness of space the chance of these civilisations communicating with each other is very small indeed.

If you would look into the mind of the Creator, if he exists, we would notice that he is far more interested in lower organisms than humans. When asked what could be inferred from the mind of the Creator, biologist JBS Haldane replied that he has [i]an inordinate fondness for beetles. You could take the argument even further and infer that not humans and not even beetles where what the creator had in mind when thinking about the pinnacle of creation, but rather bacteria, as they are really the 'masters' of the living world.

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I doubt if you spent the time viewing the videos before making those remarks. Why not take the time to view them carefully for yourself. View them independently and then after we can discuss what was presented in a reasonable manner. I know you're a sensible person so act like one. Besides, you often make the claim that science is all about empirical observation. Well, here it is! Dr. Robert Ventry has challenged the status quo and has succeeded. If that weren't the case his works would not have been published in peer-reviewed science journals, and hence his works cannot be labeled "lies"

Anyone who views those videos with an open mind could not rationally walk away saying what you said.

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The chance of winning the lottery are so staggeringly small that one cannot win the lottery. If there are enough people participating, someone is bound to win the lottery, you know. I won't touch on the creation/evolution thingy, as you'll bring forward your evidence for ID in another thread, aren't you?

Here's a quote from Douglas Adams which I find quite applicable:

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Ah Bobbyaf, how are you?

It's good to see that the forerunner in the 'lying for Jesus' squad is back at it again. You want to give your arguments against the TOE another go, or you rather have others do the dirty work for you?

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Thank God for somze and ricadelide.

Somze its pretty obvious that if there is a design to the universe there aught to be a designer. And as you correctly said that designer is God the Creator. These chance evolutionists don't stop to think. They desire people to readily accept that all this order in the universe came by chance.

Keep up the good work guys.

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@nferyn

First of all i notice the futility of this discussion. I'm not here to be convinced of the existence of my God (Jehovah/Yhwh - both christians and jews believe in thesame God) neither are you genuinely here to be convinced otherwise (no such thing as a God but bing bang, evolution etc), but for clarity sake and for those on the wall here goes:

The Design Argument (theory) is:

(1) Everything we’ve encountered that appears to have been designed does in fact have a designer;

(2) The universe does appear as if it has been designed;

(3) Thus, the universe has a designer;

(4) This designer is God.”

Wanting to narrow this down a bit, i'll deal with - "There is no design, ergo, no need for a designer. Why don't you start by bringing evidence for the existence of design in the natural world (I'm not referring to design by humans)?"

Yes there is a design(non-human) take our solar system for example, every planet orbits round its axis at its speed and never deviates. If one planet was to be taken off, science says we would all squash into each other and that would be the end of our solar system. The planets revolve round the sun, we have a galaxy of our own that stays on its path without interefering with others. Even in our earth, we have a design, from the tropics to the antartic, every creation has a design. Insects, animals and humans.

We humans have functions that every single part (organ, cell or system) performs. Earlier when the functions of some parts where unknown evolutionist thought it was proof to their theory (claiming the parts had funtions in primitive forms and after metamorphosis came into no use). Now medical science indeed has shown the functions of those parts. An indeed beautiful and intelligent designer must have been involved no doubt - and we are totally convinced that the designer is our God.

What convinces us is our bible -love it or hate it- its authenticity, its historical accuracy, its message. Nature also helps solidify our position, and even science does (from the little i've shown).

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The designer's argument is no argument at all. It is assuming the consequent and is no explanation as it falls into the trap of infinite regress for which it only knows one exit, precisely the one that it wants to invalidate.

culture that was existent more than 2000 years ago?

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What do you mean that there are not nearly reductionistic enough? Even you cant meet your outrageous standards. Do you want the author to write about all the religions and belief systems in the world? Did you study all those systems before you decided on atheism? I'm thinking you hardly went through the book.

Much less faith than you need to prove the inexistence of deity or disprove the designer's argument-where there is a design there must be a designer(which the author refers to). Or can you show clear and incontrovertible evidence that God does not exist? My guess is you needed your own bunch of presuppositions to arrive at that belief (faith).

Now about Judas not being "properly evidenced." - here with your standards again. What then is your definition of "properly evidenced." and how does it fit with the culture that was existent more than 2000 years ago?

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On what basis, there are so many contradictions and uncertainties in the good Book.

I better go to church tommorow, I've strayed away from christianity for a very long time, I might just become an Athiest.

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The defense on the rationality of the Christian world view rest on the argument that all world views have certain presuppositions or premisses and that these have to be accepted by faith. The main problem with that argument is the premisses of Christianity as presented in the book are not nearly reductionistic enough and as a matter of speaking must [b]also [/b]presuppose [b]all [/b]premisses of the materialistic world view as well (I'm not going to delve into the caricature of atheism the author makes, because that would lead us too far). Christianity must not only accept revelation on faith, but must also accept the overall lawfulness of nature and the applicability of logic, the [b]only [/b]presuppositions of naturalism. A whole lot more faith, it seems to me.

Besides, to 'prove' revelation, one can only use the presuppositions of the naturalistic method, but one can easily toss out the same method when it contradicts that revelation. The premisses of the Christian world view (which in the case of the acceptance of revelation is not sufficiently reductionistic to accept as a valid premisse) are contradicting each other. It's a classical case of having your cake and eating it too. This may convince the already made up mind, the purpose of apologetics actually, but cannot possibly convince someone who honestly investigates the claims.

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Check if the following links explain and/or answers your contradictions

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm

http://contenderministries.org/discrepancies/contradictions.php

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The facts about Christianity are overwhelmingly true.Jesus Christ existed and preached the gospel.

If he did not exist the issue of Da Vinci Code and this outrageous idea of him having a child named ''Sarah'' with Mary Magdalene would never have been an issue.

Christianity is all about faith and so as to other religions such as Hindu,Confucianism and others .It boils to down to what you choose to believe.But, have you not considered that other religions have something positively unique to say about Jesus Christ.

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@ topic,

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory." Eph. 1;13-14

True christianity is not about probabilities, neither is it a question of 'if's' and 'if nots' (2Cor.1;18-20). Those who have experienced God are 101% sure of Him and of the hope they have. 101% because it is more real than the physical (2Cor5;1-10, Heb.11) and thus is beyond earthly or human contentions. Its a matter of knowledge and experience. We have been given the Holy Spirit as a guarantor, a downpayment, a foretaste of that which is to come (2Cor.1;22, 2Cor.5;5, Eph.1;14). We are not waiting till we die before we know if we were right or not. NO! Heaven can be experienced now (Eph.2;6); eternal life (John. 17;3) can be experienced now; salvation of the soul is experienced NOW (1Pet1;9). Indeed, they that know their God,,,,,,,,,

We talk of is something we have tasted, felt and touched. (John 1;1). That is why 'christians' who don't have that level of confidence (as a result of knowledge and experience) ought to really re-consider. Although it talks about a hope, we know it is a sure hope. "We have this confidence (or hope) as a sure and strong anchor for our lives. This confidence goes into the holy place behind the curtain" (Heb. 6;19)

So, coming to the topic, contrary to what many people think, we have a lot to lose if christianity was a sham; this is addressed in 1Cor 15. Looking at Paul's statment in Phil 3;8, or verses like Matt.13;44, Matt.19;27 or Luke 14;33 - which should be our experience - then indeed the stakes are very high. Like Peter, we have left everything to follow Him! And as such, if christianity was a sham, "we are of all men most miserable" 1Cor. 15;19!

But, thank God we KNOW that it is not a sham; "when Christ who is our life appears, we shall also appear with Him in glory" (Col.3;4)

"Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now we know in part; then we shall know fully, even as we are fully known" (1Cor.13.12)

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As for me, I despise proselitism and the normalisation of religious faith as if the non-religious are some kind of freaks.

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I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.

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IF indeed its a sham then what good to you is the money you gave to any organized religion WHEN YOU ARE DEAD? they way i see it i could spend that money on anything that gives me pleasure and giving to God or the cause gives me pleasure, i could also use that money to shove drugs up my nose, again if that is what gives me pleasure in this life then who is anyone to say it had been a waste?

i stand by what i say i have absolutely nothing to loose, i am not here convincing you or any one to join my belief, what you believe is your business.

you right about one thing though, yes you don't have to be a Christian to be a decent human being, i meant to edit that but got sidetracked, there are many decent ppl who have other beliefs.

i wont ever attempt to convince you to join my faith, my faith is personal and precious to me, call it selfish but i don't believe in ramming the faith in ppl's ears

As for this topic i like it very much and stick to what i said ''WHY NOT? I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO LOOSE, ''

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you need to sit and examing your life then you will know that christ exist, just examing your life. you sound funny sin cerely,

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I'm worshipping God through Jesus and I'm loving it. Come on board, its better now than later.

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Well I wanna express my view this way. There is a God for every man. every society has got a God. This it the truth, lets go back to history. every culture or man believes that there is a supernatural force that manifest in his daily affairs, and knowing this enabled man to fuse in the cultural aspect of REILGION in his way of life. Christianity as an offshot of Judaism which is the riligion of the Jews, now do you get my point. before the white man came to africa, africans had there own form of religion based on variuos societies. even outside africa in asia we have the hindu, budah, an many others and all these religion do have supernatural manifestations. I am a christian by faith because I was born in a christian home and groomed that way it is my faith. Christainity has gone through variuos ramifications according to history, it is not a sham. it is a means of identifying a belief in the supernatural. But there's alot we dont know, we can argue but we cant get the ultimate. maybe when one dies one will know the truth about life and God. This issue is philosophical rather metaphysical and therefore cannot hold water for as long as arguement is being raised they will be criticism. the only way to know is probably death when the spirit leaves the body and returns to the source, peharps

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@ NFERYN

u r not only an atheist but a skeptic. too depressing!!!

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Hi dblock,

Remember this:

Still waiting

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babaearly, i think wat u need is to read ur bible more often and know wat it contains rather dan makin blasphemous suggestions. GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED! find out, try his word and u'll see dat they ARE SHARPER THAN 2-EDGED SWORDS!.God is real no matter how u feel about him, Dat doesn't change him 4rm being GOD

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Hello thanks very much for the advice i really appreciate i did exactly what you ask me to do and i was told to come back 3 months to my school start date.i wish to know more about you .I'm Ayodele Lousegun here is my e mail yshowboy@yahoo.com and my mobile +2348022206932. ill be looking for hearing from you.byexxxxxx xx

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