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What's This About Firstfruits?

If this topic has been treated before, pls send the link. I would love to read it up.

Heard in Church last Sunday that as a true Christian, it is mandatory I fork over my WHOLE salary for this month(I just got a new job), to God. Pastor says its the Law of the Firstfruits.

Is this true? is that the way the Bible really laid it out? How then do I survive and meet all my obligations?

Your thoughts on this please.

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104 answers

Ok oh! How many times did Abraham pay tithe or even Jacob? How many times did Peter, Paul and other apostles pay tithe?

Christ had paid the price my good people, and this was once and for all. He is the door through which our blessings flow. The window that blessings flew for people in the old testament who paid tithes was not for us christians since we have JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY DOOR TO THE FATHER.

Paying Tithe can never be the way for our blessings!

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@Debosky

I am not twisting anything i am just putting the tithe Abraham paid into proper perspective cause wether you like it or not it was a babylonian custom were Abraham came from. That apart i think it is absolutely mischievious and also twisting of the scripture to try and justify the fraudulent preaching of tithes in today's churches with the one off tithe abraham paid with from his bounty in a war. There is NO record that it was instructed to him by God neither is there any instruction there that the practise must be continued perpetually. Abraham did not give a tithe to Melchizedek as a result of faith ( as most pastors lie to us) he gave a tithe becos Melchizedek gave him bread and wine and blessed him. The tithe was in response to that gesture. Evidently bringing up this unrelated issue of Abraham's tithe is a desperate attempt by preachers to hoodwink christians into parting with ten per cent of their income as it as now been established by more enlightened christians that christians are not under any obligation to obey the law(tithe inclusive) and that their unpopular Malachi 3:8-10 was clearly not directed at christians.

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As i said in my original post there is no indication that Abraham gave melchizedek a tithe as a religious rite, rather there is ample evidence that tithe was a babylonian custom were abraham came from. Even though melchizedek was a priest of the most high he was also a king and tithes were paid to kings then as a form of tax. Also note that God deed not instruct Abraham to tithe to melchizedek he did it of his own volition.

ou can read more on Abraham's babylonian tithes below:

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/tithe-in-bible/abram-and-jacob.html

http://www.come-and-hear.com/babamezia/babamezia_90.html

http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/bchp-tithes/tithes_2.html

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Whether the custom of tithes predates the law or not christians ar not mandated to tithe any where in the bible. At best tithing should be optional becuase it as no basis in christian teachings in the bible. besides the way jesus recomend we give to God is by giving to the poor and the needy and NOT pastors and churches. So if you really want to give to God give your so called tithes to the poor and needy.

Matthew 25:35-40:

35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was Unclad, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or Unclad and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[a] you were doing it to me!’

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Where are you getting your allusion that this was a babylonian custom and not done to a Priest?

Certainly not from the bible:

Hebrews 7:1-2

For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, [b]priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

Psalm 110:4

The LORD has sworn And will not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

Unless it was a 'Babylonian custom' to give tithes to the Priest of the Most High God, then you are again grasping at straws.

Why must you seek to distort the bible to support your arguments? Abraham's act was an act of FAITH towards God, not a Babylonian custom.

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Melchizedek is a KING and a PRIEST

Jesus is a PRIEST in the order of Melchizedek and KING OF KINGS.

Tithing is in order. It predates the Law, its one of the ways of GIVING to GOD, as well as FIRST FRUIT which is the topic. Like I said before your resources must go into 3 places: GOD, SELF and OTHERS. Your understanding of how to give in these 3 ways will help you in your in your giving. Even the giving to SELF many people still do not understand how but thought they do.

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Passage Exodus 22:29:

Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

Ezekiel 44:30:

The first of the ripe fruits and all the gifts brought to the Lord will go to the priests. The first samples of each grain harvest and the first of your flour must also be given to the priests so the Lord will bless your homes.

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do bill gates oprah winfrey and roman abromovich pay tithes?

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This is not just a case of ignorance, i think it is a classical case of someone who as gone round the bend and lost touch with reality. I would suggest urgent psychiatric attention.

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Please tell us, what did Oprah and Peter J. Daniels say was their secret; Tithing?

Ignorance on rampage!!

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@ bro Kunle i noted earlier that the insults are quite unnecessary we should be able to maintain proper decorum while debating and disagree without taking the low road. I am above that and wont tow that line with you.

At the point i say God bless you, thank God you stopped the discussion i would have at this point. Intellectually am sure we are light years apart but again this is a public forum and anyone has the right to feel intelligent.

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I would strongly suggest that if you went to any fee paying school, you should go back to that school and ask for a refund as the money spent on your education is obviously a waste. The term heresy that you constanly use do you even know the meaning of that word or why it was introduced into the church's terminology.

Heresy is the rejection of one or more established beliefs of a religious body, or adherence to "other beliefs." Christian heresy refers to unorthodox practices and beliefs that were deemed to be heretical by one or more of the Christian churches. The term "heresy" most commonly refers to those beliefs which were declared to be anathema by the Church prior to the schism of 1054. However, since that time, various Christian churches have also used the concept in proceedings against individuals and groups deemed to be heretical by those churches

A lot of founding fathers of today's churches were described as heretics for instance Martin luther the father of protestanism was descriibed as an heretic by the catholic church becos he rebelled against them likewise william tynsdale was burnt at the stake for heresy Just becos he translated the bible into the English language against the will of the catholic church. Manipulative church leaders who want to impose there unscriptural beliefs on christians always call people that dare to challenge them heretics.

I would not continue to debate the issue of tithes with you as i have observed that you don't have the intelectual capacity to rise above the dogma you have been fed and study the word for your self. I leave you in your ignorance and darkness.

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Perhaps all ye knowledgeable theologians and bible students can expound for us what exactly the Order of Melchizedek is. And then what the Order of Aaron is. And whether the order of Mechizedek was in operation during the time that the order of Aaron was in operation. Afterall Melchizedek preceded Aaron and Christ came after Aaron. So were there 2 parallel priesthoods at some span in history?

Melchizedek produced bread and Wine. Are we to draw from this parallels with the holy Eucharist? I was under the impression that the Eucharist was instituted by Christ himself on the night he was betrayed. How come we find here a precedent to the Eucharist?

One would easily presume that Melchizedek fed and wined Abram during their encounter. Tithes are agricultural products, food and wine included. This leaves me wondering who gave the tithe to whom?

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@away4real,

Do you know what it meant to be a priest after the order of Melchizedek? Note: Melchizedek was not called after the order of Christ as u put,it was the other way around.

Your answer to this qustion would determine my response to you.

You keep attacking Kunle with statements saying he's preaching heresy. I do not think you know what u are talking about.

Expecting ur answer.

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@ bro Kunle, are you reading your bible at all, ?? and your statement in bold is where the lie lies. Abraham gave Tithe to melchizedek because his priest hood was called of the order of Christ. Heb 5:10. He could approach God face to face like all of us, but then recognised that melchizedek was of the order of priest hood and not becos he was king. It was a shadow of the law.

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said to him, You are my Son, to day have I begotten you.

6 As he said also in another place, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Melchizedek as Paul is showing here was a high priest, study more as see why Abraham paid Tithe, in a dispensation of grace when there was no law and then you might understand.

Please take it easy with your words, i have no issues with you but with the false doctrines. This is the fourth and we are counting.

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@coolruler

Abi oh, he seems to have a problem with people sharing views and opinions contrary to what his pastor as told himeven if it is wrong. It is in perfect order for us to share views, opinions, experience and knowledge in forums like this, contributors are then free to do further research to verify what they might have learnt to be certain it is true. But to put a blanket blackout on this forum is to question what he is looking for here in the first place. I think we should be like the berean christians and study to verify what we have been taught

Acts 17:10-11:

Paul and Silas in Berea

10 That very night the believers sent Paul and Silas to Berea. When they arrived there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.

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@SegzyJoe,

I do know the truth about giving, what I was trying to find out is if Firstfruits is a biblical LAW as its being touted, and wether it still applies today. You will agree with me that knowledge increases everyday, and people go through experiences in life so others can learn from them.

What I learnt from the discourses on this forum has really opened my eye to a lot of things. Remember "you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free".

Do I take it then you are not in support of asking questions(at least on religious issues) of your compatriots in public forums(e.g nairaland)? How then do you grow in knowledge?

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GENESIS 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Why did you leave out this important information about Melchizedek.

Consider:

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.[/b]

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To answer this question, please be reminded that Abraham came from the city of Ur in babylonia(genesis 11:31). Tithes was a common tradition amongst the babylonian people of that time and it was normally given to kings and rulers. Please note that Melchizedek whom abraham gave tithes to was the King of Salem. In short Abraham's tithe was as a result of babylonian tradition and NOT a religious injunction. To know more about "babylonian tithes" just do a googlr search on it and the facts would present themselves

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. . . besides KunleOShob never said that he didn't pay the tithe. he said that there was no record of it in the bible. If he did it wasn't recorded in the bible. All that was recorded was the promise.

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Brother Kunle na wah oh, so he made a conditional promise and didnt keep it. So which should be emulated and Why did he make the promise in the first place?? Wat was the concept of tithing in biblical times and how is it different from what obtains now.

Please be careful not to give unscriptural responses which has been your trade mark.

GBAM. You have said it all be careful though, the poster will call you holier than thou very soon for asking him to seek the truth by himself and not on "Nairaland".

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Thithing is an exercise of FAITH and not just obeying the law. It predates the law. If you want to have understanding concerning any thing check the beginning, that is the law of first mention. Many arguments will not consider this. Abraham tithed by faith, Jacob tithed also by faith. , for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23

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@topic,

Let no deceive you. It is a wrong doctrine meant to rob you of your first salary.

The only reason that could make me subject to such is, if a church on 'her' own collects such money and share it

among the jobless individuals in the ministry even though this is not biblical. SHINE YOUR EYES.

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@poster

It is only the TRUTH that you know that can set you free and not the one that is known by others. If you re a Christian and you don't know the truth about giving, then nobody can tell you that TRUTH here. Why don't you ask God to tell you the TRUTH. Am sure He will answer you, then you won't have to come here.

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Mad_Max

LOL

this is just plain ridiculous, as if God is a magician, but it goes on n on everyday, its frightening, the things people get to "chop"

people have questions, but where do they ask them? the "Man of God" has said something, so it has to be the "truth"

And Exactly. .i tell people, Giving is great! Its better to give than to receive, but anything that becomes a complusion is just wrong

i was telling a friend yesterday and shes like. ."Whoah, You dont pay, but its in the Bible! you need deliverance o!"

I simply asked her, to read the whole of Leviticus.

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Quote from: KunleOshob on February 24, 2009, 02:42 PM

Christian giving as directed by christ and the apostles is purely about giving to the poor and needy around us and not enriching some so called men of God. So as christians we should give but the emphasis should be on the poor and not the church. even church offerings is meant to be distributed to the needy but your pastors won't tell you that.

Secondly on giving these were your exact words and all the notions you stated on that post are unscriptural in other words heresy.

How can Acts 4:32-35 suggest that collections were ONLY for the poor and needy. At this point i dare say REPENT.

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was on them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made to every man according as he had need.

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Brother Kunle these were you exact words:

"The truth is that there is so much ignorance existing in the christian community today which is actively encouraged by the leaders they don't allow you to question any thing they tell you you just have to accept it whether it as sound biblical basis or not and this is very dangerous becos it leads to abuses and this is why several unscriptural things have found their way into the church and been instituitionalized over the centuries. You would be amazed how many things we hold as doctrine that you wouldn't find in scripture. Many christians eagerly await the rapture, do you know that the bible doesn't say anything about rapture and the word doesn't even exist in the bible? yet people hold it as gospel truth. (The concept of rapture emanted from a book written by a 19th century preacher.) just today i was reading the papers i came across a full page colour congratulatory message congratulating a demon (Rev king) for his birthday the message went on to shower praises, honour and glory to him as if he were god. This is the extent of brainwashing going on in our churches today. This is a man who murdered a church member in broad daylight and you still have people hero worshipping him three years down the line after he as been convicted for murder.

In my opinion christianity as it is being practised today needs to be totally overhauled, as far as i am concerned most people that profess christianity are not christlike deep down. Our churches don't even teach us or encourage true christianity and this is all due to greed and self desires of the church leadrship." Quote from Brother Kunle

You didnt say the concept of rapture was misunderstood, you said the concept emanated from a book written by a 19th century preacher, which you have been unable to provide. How does Rev 21:3 suggest anything close to the rapture.

Revelation 21 >>

American King James Version   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The concept of rapture is from the bible, the word might not be, but even the english meaning of the word rapture connotes a religious event.

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Am sorry i was carried away i apologise, you didnt call your pastor a devourer, my error.

Secondly see statement in bold, you have your life to live.

God bless.

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Brother Kunle:

1. You stated that giving to the poor ALONE as the only form of NT giving.

2. You stated that there was no rapture, that it was coined by a 19th century preacher. I challenged your notion by quoting 1 Thes 4 and asked you to name the preacher.

The thread serves as evidence.

God Bless

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@away4real,

First off, contrary to what you may think, I'm not taking decisions on my life from forums like this. I approached this forum seeking for knowledge on something I did not understand.

Folks have responded, and I did meticulous followup on all the responses given. The ultimate decision, I think, is mine to take.

Secondly, nowhere did I call my Pastor a devourer, I said he "told me to pray to God to deliver me from the Devourer".

I am a Christian, but I do not claim to know it all. Indeed, I must confess I've not yet discovered up to 25% of what christianity is all about. So, I constantly search and try to upgrade my knowledge on many issues, tithing and firstfruit being part of them.

If Kunle makes a lot of sense, and you call him a heretic, then I would rather settle for him than somebody who's "holy", but makes no sense. Capisce?

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Look at this clown, you don't even know the meaning of heresy! Anyway plese state one false doctrine that i have preached on this forum, if you feel offened or duped (and you are in denial) that i have been able to establish biblical that tithing as NO basis in christianity and that it is a complete fraud on christians, well that is your problem. the bible is available for us all to read and learn from and if what yout pastor or so-called god's generals preach is contrary to it then you should task them to question to state the truth or clearify there stance, if not they are marely mis-leading you and taking advantage of your ignorance.

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First its so sad that it is from an online forum like this you are taking decisions on your life (christainity), from the likes of Brother Kunle that has been shown to be preaching heresy (false doctrines) twice and when confronted with the scriptures couldnt respond.

Secondly, as i noted to you almost in my first post i dont know what you are doing in a church where you consider your pastor a devourer (its left to you to decide). That is if he really is cos if your problem is giving/ tithing you might better stay home or look for some online people.

Finally have you even prayed about this at all. It is only he who seeks that finds. Matthew 7, My brother seek God for yourself and have your own personal convictions/revealations then only then would you not be moved by every wind of doctrine. Imagine today if your Pastor, and God forbid it Adeboye, Oyedapo, Benny Hinn name them all God's general you know, if they come out of a meeting today and say they are sorry they have been deceiving people that there is no God. Would you stand

Spend time in Gods presence, study the word and initially it might seem nothing is happening but stay on it, you might feel after a month am not hearing anything, nothing is happening, stay on it. It is he that seeketh that findeth. Keep reading the chapters day after day, i can suggest that you start with the New Testament, no pressure, keep reading but the key is be consistent if you miss a day dont fret, make sure you continue. In due time you will find answers then only then will you be able to STAND.

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Whilst i would not discourage you from attending any church (cos nowhere in the bible says church attendance is compulory) i would encourage you to study your bible more especially the Teachings of Jesus in the new testament followed by the teachings of the epistles. Any thing not taught there is not compulsary to your christian life as the Jews which the old testament was addressed to were not christians and there beliefs were substantilly different from ours The old testament was just included in the bible to help us understand the background to christianity and not to pick doctrine from it. The coming of christ brought the law (old testament way of worshipping) to an end. These practises include tithes, seed offerings first fruit e.t.c that some preachers are trying to smuggle back into christianity like the pharisees

Romans 10:4:

4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given.[a] As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

Also those who try to uphold the law are cut off from christ  ;

Galatians 5:4-5:

4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

   5 But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us.

and

Galatians 3:23-25:

God’s Children through Faith

  23 Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept as prisoners, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.

   24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. 25 And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.

A word is enough for the wise, christ bought you for a price, preserve your freedom don't let any man make you a prisoner again.

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It was scary,right? Not paying tithe and 'firstfruit' after being conditioned to do so for so long. I felt guiltier than sin when I understood about tithing, and stopped paying tithe. But I still didn't allow false guilt to change my mind. Great things happen when you give. I don't know anything else more beneficial to your financial well-being. But tithing is not giving, it's just 'stupidity tax', like lottery tickets. Any church giving or service or activity has to come from your heart, or it's valueless.If you don't want to do it, don't.

I was invited to a church once. The minister asked everyone to take out all the money in their pockets or purses, and hold it high so he would 'bless it', so it would produce 'more of its kind'. Kia kia everybody did. He prayed, and then said no one should return a penny of the money to their pockets or purse, that it was God's money now, that it would 'work' for us, that we are to drop it, now. In an eyeblink ushers were passing baskets to collect the money. I returned my money to my purse,thoroughly pissed. How could you trick people like that?What if there were people there who didn't have vehicles, how were they to get home? What of people with little children? Suppose money was needed for something between church and home? No one knew he was going to tell them to drop all they had. And of course they were afraid to disobey 'God's command' and miss an opportunity to be 'blessed'.He called it a 'seed.' I felt like socking the guy.

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@Kunle,

I feel you,

But like Mad Max, I've also been conditioned(almost from birth as it were, by my Mother), on the sanctity of tithing. Even till today, almost all her conversations with me always ends with "I hope you are paying your tithes?".

This is the very first time I'm hearing(or reading) an alternative view on tithes and I'm seriously working on changing my orientation. Its very hard I must confess( I'm even feeling guilty right now, thinking about not paying tithes.

Meanwhile, I'm looking around for a better Church, but who can tell what I will meet there?

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Matthew 15:8-9:

   8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,

     but their hearts are far from me.

   9 Their worship is a farce,

     for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.”

Passage 2 Peter 2:1-3:

The Danger of False Teachers

  1 But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 3 I[b]n their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

[/b]

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My dad told me to do this.[pay the firstfruit thingy]

And i asked him WHY?

He could only say "Will i ever tell you to do something that will harm you or something that doesnt benefit you"

I have an Understanding of these things, and all the scare tactics they use cannot work for me again

my friends keep saying, ah ah you dont pay tithes and co, this n that would happen.

Its no surprise that the teachings of Firstfruit, Tithes and offerings have intensified in this recession season.

A friend invited me to This Present house, last week.

Guess what, Same ol tithe n offering-speak, telling people that paying these things guarantees them recession-free finances

instead of him to tell them its the church that would be recession-free.

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My brother, can I advise you to find a group of christians that share your devotion to the gospel and meet and fellowship with them regularly. Pray with them, support each other in your growth in christ, and Share dinner with them when you meet.

I don't know how many warning shots you want to hear before you decide to take to your heels. (If you had a car that would help speed your getaway, but till then your heels should suffice).

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Thanx y'all,

To tell the truth, I couldn't do it(i.e pay the firstfruit). What will I tell my family? After waiting a while, the Pastor came right out to ask me, and I told him why I couldn't do it. I informed him I paid my tithe, but he said tithe is not acceptable to God in place of firstfruit and I should pray for deliverance from the Devourer.

After this came a series of soft harassments- u know, innuendoes, veiled aspersions,e.t.c all calculated to make me see the "error" of my ways.

I however don't know why things should be like this. Firstfruit should be between me and God right? why then his(Pastor's) vested interest? And its not as if the man is a pauper, No. He drives a BMW X3 for Christs sake. Me? I don't even have a car.

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I'm not sure you've studied the scripture passages you highlighted; if you have, you'd clearly see that you have no business giving firstfruits

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My take on this?

Its scriptural [Exodus 23:19, Proverbs 3:9, Leviticus 2:14, etc]

But there is a caveat here:

If you believe in it, go ahead and give, it will produce good result for you. If you do not believe it, please dont give,

whatever you do for God or even for man that is not borne out of inner conviction is a wasteful exercise.

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Interesting, so it was not only the levites that weren't expected to tithe under the law. Really interesting.

And you didnt repond to my response to your unscriptural notion on rapture.

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Answer is obvious they were not required to tithe since they did not produce from the land.

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Concerning the firstfruits stuff, personally I do not believe in that and its just one of the many frauds and manipulations going on in the churches 2day.

The Bible clearly states that we should'nt give grudgingly,once there is grudge in your heart about what you wanna give, then something is not right about such giving.So to the poster,Take care of your parents and family with your first fruits and bless God on there behalf for sending you to school and been there for you.As for tithingyou can give 10% to the church you worship.If that doesn't satisfy your pastor,pls look for another church.God bless you!!Some of these pastors thinks they re dealing with people who can't use there head.

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My question remains what was the direct reward of labour at the time?? Was the economy subsistence or not?? 

I totally agree with you there would have been carpenters, garment makers etc then you answer the question so how were they supposed to tithe the OT way? Please tell us how were they supposed to tithe?? since you claim the tithe was only agricultural products.??

My premise as i stated earlier is that the notion that OT tithe were only agricultural products is a lie, you have showed were God told them to convert it to silver (a commodity), so in other words silver could be used as tithe. And again note the situation the people who had reaped their products but were far off, so they had reaped agricultural products were far off but could still tithe silver,

Dont mix up the issue, was the tither suppose to give only agricultural products, cows etc or could they tithe silver and gold?? If they could then what is the issue tithing money today.

Halleluyah, revealation according to Ovamboland, tithing will not be the subject or near it to you though they were the exact words of Jesus, becos my brother as a man thinketh in his heart,

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former

The same issue we saw earlier someone saying Paul meant something else when the scripture is clear, please interpret without neglecting the former in plain simple english.

Eg i say to you why are you not reading chemistry, you are studying only Physics dont you know you should not neglect the former. But the strategic aim or broader message is be a studious student, read your books, perhaps you might have maths and Englis also but in this situation i am saying do not neglect Chemistry,

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This is actually the first time I'll hear 'Fristfruits'. Christians are supposed to give their first salaries to the church?

The truth is that there is so much ignorance existing in the christian community today which is actively encouraged by the leaders they don't allow you to question any thing they tell you you just have to accept it whether it as sound biblical basis or not and this is very dangerous becos it leads to abuses and this is why several unscriptural things have found their way into the church and been instituitionalized over the centuries. You would be amazed how many things we hold as doctrine that you wouldn't find in scripture.

Benny Hinn preached to his church one Sunday, that Christians are 'little gods' and something else about nine spirits. Some of his church members went to see him and tell him his teaching was unscriptural,and they proved it to him. You know what he did the following Sunday? He apologised to his church for the teaching the previous week,said he got carried away or something, and asked their forgiveness. Isn't his humility refreshing?

Imagine if it had been Nigeria. Nobody would think Daddy's teaching was wrong, much less dare to tell him so. Everything they say is divine, though we have a Bible and are supposed to examine their teaching by the light of the bible. That's why the unscrupulous take advantage of innocent Christians. But you know, not all Pastors teach tithing to get money. A few teach it because that is what they were taught in pastoral schools. They sincerely believe Christians should tithe, as if God's love and blessing is conditioned upon tithing.

Only the Jews are subject to Jewish laws anyway. And Paul tells them in Romans 6 that as Christians, Jews are no longer subject to the law.

13. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means

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Benetictac, have come across this command from God? Deut 14 23-24

23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25[b] then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose[/b]

The highlight shows silver was a means of exchange widely available as the time this tithing law was given.

Have thought that there were also carpentars, garment makers, blacksmith, scribes, tax collectors, professional soldiers etc. in Israel, who get paid in silver, how did the say they should pay tithes?

Is this what the Holy Spiriyt revealed to you as regard the quoted verse? am afraid i heard very differently, tithing is not the subject of that verse, neither is it justice, mercy and others. Jesus was only highligthing the behaviour of the Pharisees, their hypocrisy, and exalting mundane things for main crux of God's commandment.

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I had wanted to stay away from this topic but it seems a lie is beginning to hold sway here.

As i stated earlier if you choose not to tithe by faith God bless you tithing has nothing to do with your salvation.

First on the notion that the tithes were food, animals and agricultural proceeds ONLY, how can we be so ignorant. This has to do with the way labour was rewarded at the "time". The economic system would mainly have been trade by barter so it was exchange goods for goods pls note the word mainly, money was gradually evolving. The more goods you had, it could be deduced that the more blessed that man is. In other words the means of exchange/reward was in raw commodities such as agricultural proceeds. So when we read through the old testament we always see that when God blesses a man he increases in Cows, sheeps, tents etc. In other words he increases in commodities,

From Abraham first tithe to Melchizedek it was (spoils of war), maybe Gold, Horses, swords etc i dont have the exact details as i am not quoting from Genesis but i know it was from the spoils he tithed.  Then through the law to the levites it was a tenth of thier increase, which basically was from the works of their hands, God had given the children of Isreal a fertile land so they were maybe farmers by occupation, others might have been cattle rearers.

The question now is how is Labour rewarded?

Secondly someone mentioned that Tithes were paid to the Levites as they were the priest and did nothing so something about the Pastors bla bla,  How can you be so far from the truth, who ever imagines Tithes were paid to the Pastor is being deceived. No Tithe is paid to any Pastor. In actual terms the Pastor should tither he is merely the Bishop/Deacon (using NT words) coordinating and encouraging the brethren he also should Tithe.

He has made us Priest and Kings unto him, and have one High Priest, it is him the tithes are paid to, recall Abraham paying Tithe to Melchizedek and study on what Hebrew says about Melchizedek. We are not under the Law and do not Tithe to fulfil the requirements of the Law.

Finally on the verse below, please see the statements in bold,

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Though this could still be considered the dispensation of the law as Jesus hadnt ascended yet, but he still noted "without neglecting the former". May God give us grace to understand.

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"The truth is that there is so much ignorance existing in the christian community today which is actively encouraged by the leaders they don't allow you to question any thing they tell you you just have to accept it whether it as sound biblical basis or not and this is very dangerous becos it leads to abuses and this is why several unscriptural things have found their way into the church and been instituitionalized over the centuries. You would be amazed how many things we hold as doctrine that you wouldn't find in scripture. Many christians eagerly await the rapture, do you know that the bible doesn't say anything about rapture and the word doesn't even exist in the bible? yet people hold it as gospel truth. (The concept of rapture emanted from a book written by a 19th century preacher.) just today i was reading the papers i came across a full page colour congratulatory message congratulating a demon (Rev king) for his birthday the message went on to shower praises, honour and glory to him as if he were god. This is the extent of brainwashing going on in our churches today. This is a man who murdered a church member in broad daylight and you still have people hero worshipping him three years down the line after he as been convicted for murder.

In my opinion christianity as it is being practised today needs to be totally overhauled, as far as i am concerned most people that profess christianity are not christlike deep down. Our churches don't even teach us or encourage true christianity and this is all due to greed and self desires of the church leadrship." Quote from Brother Kunle

@ brother Kunle, again another very unscriptural notion. First it was giving to the poor as the ONLY NT giving, now rapture.

The word "Rapture" what does it mean in English Language i.e. dictionary meaning.

1. The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.

2. An expression of ecstatic feeling. Often used in the plural.

3. The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven.

My question is please enlighten us on the 19th century preacher that developed the concept of rapture.

As you show us the preacher look at: Verse 17 of particular importance. But please in your response make sure you state the particular preacher and not just a 19th century preacher.

13But we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve like other people who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so through Jesus God will bring those who have died with him. 15For we declare to you what the Lord has told us to say:[c] We who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have died. 16With a shout of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of God's trumpet, the Lord himself will come down from heaven, and the dead who belong to the Messiah will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18So then, encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 - 18

Here Paul was teaching on why christains shouldnt be ignorant about death, or worry, from verse 1 it is a bit clearer, please take out time to read the whole chapter. The verse you quoted in Revealation again does not refer to the rapture, there is a sequence of events that the bible clearly teaches us the end will follow.

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