In which of the seven days of creation did God create hell? Did God design and create the world with HELL in mind or did he create it as an after-thought?
In which of the seven days of creation did God create hell? Did God design and create the world with HELL in mind or did he create it as an after-thought?
Accepted. Who's Nick? Look, I know atheists and Christians needle each other here. It's like some kind of sport. You can clearly tell both sides are having fun. One atheist told a Christian she was so religious her brain cells are dead and only respond to the word 'Jesus'! I almost burst a gut laughing. They pass the thing back and forth. But snide superiority and outright insult is beyond the pale, man.
The most prominent hell creators and sustainers on NL are as follows;
1)Olaadegbu - Chief creator/sustainer/propagandist of hell
To these fellows, religion without the concept of hell is meaningless. So they keep on creating and sustaining this place of torture in their minds every moment of their lives. Must be a weird way of living.
You assume my two long posts were meant just for you. They weren't. While talking indoctrination, the 'you' was a general public you, not just you in particular. I've lived the indoctrinated life. It IS a peculiar form of bondage. The message was for others in a similar predicament. It's possible you may have mistaken my earnestness for pretentiousness. You're free to. People here have posted things that's helped me lots of times. The posters had no idea. So it wasn't all about you.
Oh dear. Which assertions in particular?
Hear hear . . . and subscribing
by the way, Mad_Max is a she
PS Huxley is cool, he throws up subject matters, steps back, watches the terrain and then interjects when he fancies or deems fit
Jagunlabi on the other hand is a toughened cookie (i.e. o ti giran) famous for his general distrust and seasonal cynicism
Whilst Mad Max may sound off topic and rambling, he has articulated himself quite eloquently and in an erudite manner. It is worthwhile to consider what he is saying. This is more that can be said of other posters here.
As for Jagunlabi & Huxley - it is best to ignore them. Huxley is well known for intentionally creating posts for the express purpose of contention, rather than for enlightened discussion. He seem to have found an excellent tag team partner in Jagunlabi!
The logical thing to do here is to take an EFFECTIVE step to make sure the rest of the loafs of bread are without dents, with emphasis on EFFECTIVE. If this yahweh really loved his creations, then he should have taken effective steps to correct what the problem was, afterall he had more than enough time to have done so, but he did not.
I hope that you can see the fallacy of your analogy.
@ Mad Max and all other like him
You people make my head hurt. What ever happen to "just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin and thus death spread to all man because they have all sinned." If you bake bread in pan with a dent every bread that you bake in that pan will have a dent. Abeg use short sentences and easy logic. You go make my head scatter.
I didn't mean to sound pretentious. I detest it in people. Or to mislead/misguide either. I know you're disppointed I didn't answer your questions directly, though I easily could. I can't start telling you things as if I'm some divinely appointed teacher. I'm still learning and know very, very little. But there's no way the things you've seen and know or think you know won't colour what you say, though you're attempting to say nothing. Hence my sounding 'vague'. I simply cannot tell you things. And certainly not on a public forum. You can't look to people to lead you and teach you and tell you what to believe or how to believe or what is true or not true. Only He may lead you. Just look to Him. He's the whole point. THAT was my whole point. He isn't affiliated to any religion either. No religion has a monopoly on truth.
Dont sweat yourself over "MY DESCENT INTO DEATH by Howard Storm".
- already familiar with the subject & author
With respect and without offence, I daresay your submission(s) were deceptively initially interesting, it fizzled out to be pretentious
and turned out to be off-the-rail with warped rhetorics, unnecessarily vague & misleading out of sheer misguidance . . .
Take a sabbatical off the Movies forum and make more or frequent pit-stops and/or appearances here
PS For the record I am not affliated to a religion.
And yet if you don't, it's unlikely you'll learn anything new. Indoctrination is a form of mental bondage. It erects a wall. How can God get behind that wall and talk to you if you don't pull it down? It can't be easy for God. We're hard creatures to teach, and we don't learn. We're gifted at self-deception, at going off our own tangents, at twisting things, at perverting the truth, at seeing what we want to see. How can we be trusted? Nevertheless, He talks to us, He teaches us, He does not stop trying.
He talks to you and I, if you'll listen. If you won't insist you know better. He'll always confirm things He tells you. In the bible, in the words and writings of strange people, in many ways. There was a book I happened across that confirmed things I knew, but from which I also learnt new things. The author is an atheist who died in a Parisienne hospital. He expected oblivion (he didn't believe we survived biological death) and got a huge shock instead. Read what he says and judge for yourself. I believed him. It's MY DESCENT INTO DEATH by Howard Storm. If you like, I can post excerpts from the book here.
God's is a Spirit of truth and He'll lead you into truth, if you desire it. Your religious teachers may be right and what they say may be true. But God also wants to talk to YOU personally. Don't block him out with indoctrinated ideas and act like religious authourity knows better than HE.
Maybe it's better to stay in the safety of what you've been taught, and to defend that viciously if it's threatened. Because those teachings are a part of you, those who attack it attack you in way, and in defending it you're defending yourself. It's natural. You're saved whether you hide behind indoctrination or not.
But if you want to know things, you'll have to endure the trauma of de-doctrination. The things you'll learn will have been taught you by religious authority, but now you learn in perfect freedom. But you'll learn new things too. Hidden things. Secret things.Stay in your comfort zone. Or dare to venture out and ask God to lead you into truth like He promised. He is ready and willing and able. It's fantastic He even bothers
at all, but He does. I know 'His Love' has become a cliche and lost meaning. But in truth, no one will ever love you more.
Ah, I shall have to disappoint you and not answer some of that. By evolving biologically I don't mean we arrived by ourselves, independent of God. God created us. We're spirit beings He thought about. We came into existence because of that. If you're alive on this earth you're an amalgam of spirit and flesh. Imagine how powerful a being must be, if he created creatures as complicated as we are merely by thinking about it. We aren't all He created. There are things and beings far far far more powerful and incredible than mere humans. He continues to create. Universes and beings and spirits and realms and hyper-realities impossible to imagine. It doesn't end. It's wonderful.
The Adam/Eve story in the bible isn't the original. It's a waterered down version. I think the Talmud contains the original. When you read that you're in no doubt it's allegorical, but the hairs on your neck prickle. Something is clearly happening there, hidden by imagery. Something true and terrible. It's not for me to say. When your mind confronts something that is true but you're not ready for it, you will reject it. So you'll find out the Adam/Eve story isn't literal at your own pace. People have known they aren't real for a long, long time. It's not new.
One exercise is to think of the spiritual facts you know and how you arrived by that knowledge. Isn't it from religious authority, from other men? And didn't you believe based on their authority as teachers and pastors? Or they offered incontroversible proof of what they taught you? So what's true for you then is dependent on which particular religious authority you trust and choose to believe. But isn't it true that these authorities differ and so there are diverse creeds and doctrines in Christianity, denominations representing its own brands of truth? Doesn't all the arguments between Christians on this forum reflect the different truths we've been taught?
But if a thing were true, wouldn't it be true regardless of denomination or creed? How many things do you KNOW for yourself that isn't based on religious authority teaching? If you're like most of us, precious little. So what you're defending isn't necessarily what is true but what you've been taught for so long it's a part of you. To doubt it would be acute discomfort. To cut it off would be hideous trauma. It'll be like being adrift at sea with no compass.
Yeah. I've heard how God made man from scratch and a woman from his rib and they ate a fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and mankind fell. That something as abstract as knowledge is represented by 'tree' and 'fruit' tells you this isn't a literal story. It's like Revelation, when a message is given to John in symbols. He understood. There was a place where he was completely baffled. Seeing he didn't get that particular imagery, the angel with him explained what it meant. The woman stands for this, the horns stand for that, etc. But he understood everything else and so there are no explanations offered for them. Adam and Eve aren't real flesh and blood people. No sin entered the world because they ate allegorical fruit. It's an insult to God's perfect justice that you'd accuse Him of punishing the innocent for the supposed sins of others and feel completely comfortable in this belief.
We're guilty all right. We're lost all right. We sinned all right. But it wasn't by proxy. There was no Adam and Eve. Biologically, we evolved as a species. But this world isn't the beginning and it isn't the end. We are. . . very old, all of us. God says, I have foreknown you from the foundation of the world. What do you think that means? It shouldn't be hard. Think of the story of the prodigal son. Think of Christ saying He will leave 99 secure sheep and go after a single one that is lost. Tnen go over the allegorical Adam and Eve story again. You'll figure it out. There's no such thing as inherited or original sin from Adam/Eve . It's, I'm sorry, completely absurd.
Let's use the present age (i.e. the information technology age) and bring this home
Using Microsoft Office Word we can make sense of
"by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"
Normal.dot (endearingly referred to as Normal Dot Dot) is the default or global template that Word uses to create a blank document
The moment the template becomes corrupt, all future word documents created with it will be corrupt unless the issue with the template is fixed or addressed before use
Those two people that sinned were the template that got damaged resulting in all humanity becoming guilty (i.e. word documents created from a defective template)
Sorting out the defective template gets one back to churning out defect free word documents
You're right. God didn't create hell. But flesh and blood Adam and Eve never existed either. The Genesis story is an allegory telling you something else that is true. It makes no sense to say two people 'sinned' and all humanity became guilty. Even if they were real people, and they aren't, wouldn't inherited sin have stopped at the point God declared that Fathers would not pay for the sins of children, and children would not pay for the sins of their parents, but each would bear the consequences of his/her own sin?
It seems hell is real. It seems to exists as a vast, infinitely complex place of separation from God.
He didn't create hell. God original purpose was for humans to leave FOREVER in PERFECT conditions on a beautiful earth. Adam and Eve messed that up. And sin was brought in to the earth, and the wages of sin is death. Hell as an eternal damnation is made up. Hell is actually mankind common grave which we can all expect to "go" to if we happen to die.
first of all God did not create any hell.
hell was created by the religions of man.
the funny thing about hell is that everyone is going to hell. how?
christian, buddhists, hinduists, atheists, pagans etc. are all going to the moslem's hell since they are infidels.
and moslems, hinduists and Buddhists, atheists, pagans etc. are all going to the christian hell since they are unbelievers.
therefore at the end of the day everybody is going to hell.
Yes, God already planned to have humans end up in hell . . .
Yes, God knew humans would sin . . . and hell was created in advance
No, God was not surprised when Adam sinned
Yes, correct God already knew they will sin . . .
Why was God surprise?
God was not surprised when Adam sinned, afterall God is omniscient
The questioning was for Adam's benefit - an experience called self-discovery
So God had already planned to send humans to hell many many years before he created Adam, correct? So God knew that humans would sin and eventually have to end up in hell, so he created hell many many years in advance of creating man. So why was God surprise when Adam & Eve sinned. God already knew they were going to sin, correct?
Greetings to Dear fellow Nairalanders, I kept reading comments given on the post
We Thank God for his grace and mercy , and pray that The founder of Nairaland and users remain blessed AMEN.
To God belong the secrets , mystery , key to the Heavens above and the Earth Beneath them . He is ONE , The most High , Nothing is above Him ,
HE was not Begotten ,has not begotten, He has no wife . And non can be likened unto him. He never give his secret of the unseen to anyone.
The Originator of Creator , He creates what he wills with his power . He created the Angels from Light, The Jinn from Smokeless Fire , and Man from
Earth as he wills he gave each of them souls yet with instructions and He the Greatest knows the Number of Generations that will live before he
Judge as he is the best to Judge.He did not create all things without reasons . And of His Messengers are THE ANGELS and Men .
Adam was created without Mother and Father . He thought Adam that which he knew not e.g Names of Animals which the Angels do not know.
Adam and Eve should have been free of sin, If they both obeyed God and not listen to Satan as God told Adam that Satan is a clear enemy to him from the Day he Adam was created .
When Angels welcomed (Honored) Adam but Satan Refused and Said God created Adam from Clay and he was Created from Fire SO he disobeyed
God and Satan was an outcast and promised to lead Adam and his offspring astray and will come from every angle to make them commit
mischief but God said he Satan will be burnt from the Fire Which he was Created from and his companions who disobeyed him will be burnt in HELL
Except for they who abide by his commandments will be safe.We all can imagine how many generations with different language, skin colour, body shapes he created just from a single soul Adam.
Well all benefit from his abundance and he keep sustaining the Earth. He sends down rain from the Heaven to give life to earth so as to produce
food and water in abundance for all living creatures.
The mystery of how he creates things brings about everyday wonder and argument .among mankind and the World filled with various activities.Glory be to him.
God created Paradise as MERCY through it he shows mercy to whom he will and HELL as punishment through it he punish whom he will. HELL was not created for Mankind but (Satan) and the evil spirits and they that chose to Satan companion .
But human being disobey God and Transgress all bound. If Men of understanding should reason we all know that The Creation of Earth and
Heaven is a more serious matter than the creation of mankind but Mankind sees Himself as Free of wants.
He alone knows when he created everything except that which he reveal to Mankind and the Angels.
He already showed us the right way, How to Worship Him, HIS COMMANDMENT he told the truth as he is the truth, The First and the Last,
If He God so willed The past Generations wouldn't have fought themselves but he does what ever he wills with his power , He Compel what , whom
he wills for reasons , That's why He is God the only Deity worthy of Worship . But mankind sets partners of worship when they know he sees ,
hear, is aware of all we do. Every day Neither sleep nor slumber overtakes Him ,All that is in Heavens and the Earth Beseech him of his Goodness and Bounty and he is free of want.
He is independent while we depend on Him. And Mankind cannot pass beyond the Horizons of the Earth to the Heavens except by permission of His Lord
And Finally The Main Reason for the creation of "Life and Death is as to which of us is best in deeds"
The Trees and Birds and other creatures glorifies Him he hears, sees and understand all.
Back in some years in Military Cantonment Ikeja by the walk way i saw trees with the name in Arabic "Allah" displayed on it. The name of God "Allah" also appeared on leaves, Melon, Fishes , which i watched on videos on the Net.
All these are signs that God is ever living and the REAL AND ONE CREATOR that inspires all living things and we proclaim his greatness.
even lately in February 2010 in Russia A baby was Born with the Scriptures of Qur'an mentioning God's name on his Leg.
see this link to see the video
The Alternation of the Day and Night is a Sign for men of understanding and everything he created with measures . It is not permissible for the Day
to overtake the Night nor the Night to overtake the day and the Sun, the Moon each swims in its Orbit, We all imagine the wonder of Creation by
God .Among Men he chose as messengers in series (e.g Adam , Noah, Moses, Elisha, Elijah, Jacob, Abraham, Jesus,Mohamed ) and telling them to
warn their people from sin simply because of His love for Mankind as his Mercy is more than his Anger. God is truly aware of all we do when a
mankind of each Generations is going astray he do send messengers to them to If he had willed he would have destroyed them just as he did to
the people of Lot . The most Merciful God. Among Mankind are those that advice to patience and truth and are some that
Leads astray (and impatience ) for verily mankind "WAS CREATED ANXIOUS"
I pray God Almighty Throw his divine light into our heart and show us the way and we seek his refuge from the evil of that he as created and from we seek refuge from from he whispers evil into the bosom of jinn and mankind, Amen.
To Him all matter returns and to Him is the return of all.
Peace be upon the messenger Thanks and Glory be to our Lord Owner of Majesty and Honor.
Not entirely or quite so . . .
On the former, yes but on the latter, no
On judgement day those of questionable value and/or those that sinned would end up in hell.
Quick question Fellis
Are you right, are you always right?
Am asking because all unrighteousness is sin resulting with a questionable value
Only those with the righteousness of God will be spared the trash bin hell
Hope huxley is learning his lessons so as not to repeat this class asking the same questions later?
jagunlab is so pathetic I didn't even bother myself. This are the ilk that criticise scriptures and say it's story written by fishermen. With all the resource available at your beck and call, that's all your intelligence could imagine? go and get salvation, that's your eminent need
A group of scientists, atheists and traditionalists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. They picked one scientist to go and tell God that they no longer needed Him.
God listened patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist finished, God said, "Very well! How about this? Let's have a man-making contest."
To which the man replied, "OK, great!"
But God added, "Now we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."
The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and gra grabbed a handful of dirt.
God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You make your own dirt!"
Jagunlabi u re yawning dust.
Hell wasnt created for man by God initial,it was for satan.Matt25vs41 hell was created for the devil&his angels. Also note that God doesnt want men in hell but wants pple to repent 2Peter3:9 that all men should come to repentance.
If anyone refuses to believe in jesus/God,such one is choosing hell. God didnt force Jesus/himself on anyone,if not all atheist should have been wiped off by God for refusing him.Yet he didnt do that,Everyone will choose where h/she wants to end up.Hell will be the home of many at the end.In fact hell is enlarged to accommadate alot of God reject.Isaiah5:14 say hell is enlarged awaiting candidates who prefers there.