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Where Do We Go When We Die?

after reading a lot here, i am curious to know what people's views are on this issue.

remember people, if you do not agree with someone's view, simply say so. it is not an attack on you or your beliefs. freedom of speech and respect for all concerned!

so come on people, let us chat about this!

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59 answers

The soul is the physical created body of any living thing in existence and is not an abstract term. It is the soul that dies along with the consciousness of the individual being. The spirit that animayes the soul is the property of the creator that was borrowed to us to give us life, at death it goes back to the owner.

This is akin to a memory of us that dwells with the father and it is at his own prerogative that he gives it back a body at the ressurection, either to a judgement or to a life in his new creation which is even now being made manifest.

But as for a conscious afterlife that continues to exist after death, now that in itself is unfathomable

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When death actually occurs, the soul accompanied by the astral body departs from the physical body, to spare its 1000-year life. It travels to different planes according to its [b]gadur, meaning "fate." [/b]The results of good gadur may be the enjoyment of heavenly surroundings, while negative gadur earns unpleasant experiences beyond the physical plane.

After leaving physical life, the soul's experiences correspond to the after-life he or she has come to expect. The plane to which the soul travels is most influenced by the last thought, prior to death which is determined by the types of thought, which predominate throughout a person's life. There can be no doubt that heaven and hell exist, both here and elsewhere although these are as much a state of mind as a solid reality.

An Enosite (mortal) who has been selfish, greedy or brutal in his or her dealings with his or her fellows will exist on a lower plane where they must face the memory, and the gadur effect of those deeds.

One who has lived a virtuous life travels to a higher plane to other planets, where the soul will have to think of that which it wants, and to desire will automatically manifest from his or her thoughts.

But those who have transcended the idea of heaven rewards, who overstand the nature of birth and rebirth, and no longer wishes to partake of the endless round of material pleasures and pains, travel to even higher planes on to other worlds. There everything is of a purer and lighter vibration. There is still pleasure, for these souls will have accumulated much agreeable gadur. However, the experience is a learning one. This is the working of the mind.

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I'm sorry to read about that incident. But I can rejoice to know that you're comforted afterall. God bless.

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this should be enough evidence that there is reincarnation.

she has prpbably be redeemed just by coming to this earthlife for just 14hrs based on what she did in her former earthlife. you also have something to reap by losing ur 14yr old daughter.

maybe in ur former life u caused the dirth of a 14hrs old baby so u came to this earthlife to reap dat which u sowed in ur former earthlife.

or maybe in her former life she killed a 14hrs old baby so she had to come to this earthlife as a baby and live for 14hrs so she wud know the pain she caused the other in her former earthlife.

*just my analysis though. it is not exact oh*

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After dealth and burried,we'll remain in a place called "Barisaku". All of us remain there till the day we'll enter into the grave. all of us are entering the grave the same time because we're all created all at the same time even with Adams. So no one is older than the other in age but Adam and others came to this world b4 us,why?find out.

After entering the grave,we'll all spend a thousand yrs there,some people wld use this 1000yrs to serve there part 1 punishment while the good one wld enjoy for that 1000yrs. note,a yr is not our own calender yr.

There are lots ahead of us,so pls do the best you can in worshipping God.

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I lost a daughter several years ago, and although I have always known death is possible at anytime for anyone, it never dawned on me to question or really think of the afterlife or where we wait until judgement day, until my dauthers passing. 

I have always held on to the verses from Luke 16:22-23 ~ And it came to pass, that the beggar dies, and was carraied by the angels to Abraham's bosom, the rich man also died and was buried, and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments and seeth Abraham from afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 

It always brought comfort to me to know my Gwennie was safe in Abraham's bosom, and not in the ground waiting on judgement day, how could she be judged after all, she was only 14 hours old,

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The words, May His Soul Rest In Peace constitute the most blatant example of our cluelessness and ignorance regarding the nature of the afterlife.

This cluelessness came about with the introduction of christianity and islam. Prior to these false religions, we knew that the soul survived death and went on to live a fullfilled existence in eternity - NOT TO REST IN PEACE.

This is why in traditional Africa all the way back to ancient Egypt, our people buried their dead with a variety of appurtenances to facilitate a comfortable stay in the world beyond.

Rather than the soul going to ''sleep'' or to ''rest in peace'' as christianity and islam have brainwashed us into believing, the soul is moving on to a FULLER EXISTENCE, teaming with learning and leisure of a type and scope unknown on earth.

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Finally peace and quiet. The bible calls death a "rest", calls it sleep 13 times in the NT.

I too believe that we await the resurrection before we join the Lord.

Yet since "we know nothing in death", I believe the time span between death and our meeting the Lord is "a twinkling of an eye", because we did not know we had been dead for however long until the resurrection. We just die and instantaneously wake up with the Lord, on resurrection day.

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@ Adadrage

True words in deed!

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Where do we go when we die? First of all, it is appointed unto man once to die and after death the judgement! Also, the soul that sinneth shall die!

I am amused that most contributors to this thread are distinguishing between the body, soul and spirit. This belief is a lie of christianity just like another lie of belief in the trinity.

When the creator formed Adam, he was a soul in all his entirety, body, bones and blood (as was with every other created creature). At this pont, it is worthy of note that he was inanimate as his carbon composition was not powered for life. Thus, to have life, he had to have the creator activate him by his life giving spirit in the form of breadth. This is the reason that man and animal die after the breadth ceases. This breadth goes back to the giver, Jehovah who possesses the power to give it back (which he will do on the day of judgement).

As for where we go when we die, we decay and become feed for ants and worms and contribute to the sustainability of our common grave (this is the meaning of Sheol). Some believe that bad people go to hell, however, the word hell interpreted from original scripts were basically three words, like Gehenna(a place outside Israel where refuse is dumped and burned), Sheol, as mentioned above and Hades(Greek word for underworld). Thus, for those argueing the existence of hell, I am sorry.

For those that say the righteous will go to heaven when they die, let me ask a question. Wsa Lazarus a righteous man? If yes, that means he must have been in heaven when Jesus called him back to earth. If this were true, were I Lazarus, the kind grudge I go bear Jesus ehn, na him for send me go back again. Lazarus was not in heaven when he was raised up, although he was a righteous man.

To help me butress this point is Lazarus younger sister himself who professed faith that Lazarus will be raised up on tha last day, need I say more.

So people, if we die, we die and nothing dey happen. We our created soul goes nowhere and end up as feed for some creepy crawly, our breadth or spirit as you guys term it goes up to the owner. When that last day come, him that formed us before, go form us again. Those that got drowned, those wey fire burn, even all those wey their body scatter for accident, he will reform us all, give us breadth make we take answer questions and if found wanting, we go die again which is the second death of which there is no hope of ressurection, those wey pass go live for the new earth with Jesus as king.

The day is coming when all go realise the truism of this statement, "the living are conscious of events, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all". But what happens when we die, close your eyes and ears, you see that darkness, that emptiness, that nothingness, that is death for you. Absolutely nothingness until the dead hear the call

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Where do we go when we die? First of all, it is appointed unto man once to die and after death the judgement! Also, the soul that sinneth shall die!

I am amused that most contributors to this thread are distinguishing between the body, soul and spirit. This belief is a lie of christianity just like another lie of belief in the trinity.

When the creator formed Adam, he was a soul in all his entirety, body, bones and blood (as was with every other created creature). At this pont, it is worthy of note that he was inanimate as his carbon composition was not powered for life. Thus, to have life, he had to have the creator activate him by his life giving spirit in the form of breadth. This is the reason that man and animal die after the breadth ceases. This breadth goes back to the giver, Jehovah who possesses the power to give it back (which he will do on the day of judgement).

As for where we go when we die, we decay and become feed for ants and worms and contribute to the sustainability of our common grave (this is the meaning of Sheol). Some believe that bad people go to hell, however, the word hell interpreted from original scripts were basically three words, like Gehenna(a place outside Israel where refuse is dumped and burned), Sheol, as mentioned above and Hades(Greek word for underworld). Thus, for those argueing the existence of hell, I am sorry.

For those that say the righteous will go to heaven when they die, let me ask a question. Wsa Lazarus a righteous man? If yes, that means he must have been in heaven when Jesus called him back to earth. If this were true, were I Lazarus, the kind grudge I go bear Jesus ehn, na him for send me go back again. Lazarus was not in heaven when he was raised up, although he was a righteous man.

To help me butress this point is Lazarus younger sister himself who professed faith that Lazarus will be raised up on tha last day, need I say more.

So people, if we die, we die and nothing dey happen. We our created soul goes nowhere and end up as feed for some creepy crawly, our breadth or spirit as you guys term it goes up to the owner. When that last day come, him that formed us before, go form us again. Those that got drowned, those wey fire burn, even all those wey their body scatter for accident, he will reform us all, give us breadth make we take answer questions and if found wanting, we go die again which is the second death of which there is no hope of ressurection, those wey pass go live for the new earth with Jesus as king.

The day is coming when all go realise the truism of this statement, "the living are conscious of events, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all". But what happens when we die, close your eyes and ears, you see that darkness, that emptiness, that nothingness, that is death for you. Absolutely nothingness until the dead hear the call

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A Moment of Truth

Jayne Smith's near-death experience

Thirty-five years ago, Jayne Smith was in the hospital in labor with her second baby. In the process, she experienced clinical death and had a near-death experience. The following is taken from her video entitled A Moment of Truth where she describes her near-death experience. In my opinion, her near-death experience is one of the most profound near-death experiences I have ever come across. After reading about her near-death experience, I am certain you will agree.

Information on how to obtain a video tape of her describing her near-death experience can be found below. On the video tape, she answers some very profound questions concerning life and life after death.

The Ecstasy of God

I was totally aware. I was in blackness. I couldn't see anything. I was thinking to myself, "This isn't the way it is supposed to be. I'm not supposed to know anything and I do. What on earth has happened?"

At that point I felt something leave my body. It was a whoosh. It went up through the top of my head. I could feel it and I could hear it. Just a gentle whoosh. At that point I found myself standing in a kind of gray mist. Then I knew I had died.

The memory of this experience is seared into my very soul. When I found myself standing in this gray mist with the realization that I had died I remembered feeling so overjoyed, so thrilled, because I knew that even though I was what we call "dead", I was still very much alive. Very much alive. I was totally aware. I began to pour out these feelings of thanksgiving. I wasn't doing it verbally, but it seemed that the very essence of me was saying "Thank you, thank you, God for setting it up this way, that I really am immortal. I was not annihilated."

I was involved in this tremendous pouring forth of gratitude and joy and as that was going inside me, this white light began to infiltrate my consciousness. It came into me. It seemed I went out into it. I expanded into it as it came into my field of consciousness. There was nothing I was aware of except this brilliant white light. The light brought with it the most incredible feeling of total love, total safety, total protection. I was just enveloped in it. I remember feeling almost cradled by it. It was so dynamic it was almost palpable.

As I existed in this white light, in this incredible love, I began to be rapturous. The rapture built. The bliss built. My consciousness began to expand with the bliss of it all. Suddenly there came into my field of consciousness an entire field of knowledge It was like a whole block of knowledge that just simply came in and settled itself on me. I knew, what takes several sentences to tell, but it didn't come in several sentences - it came all in one piece. What I knew was that I was immortal, that I was eternal, that I was indestructible, that I always had been, that I always will be, and that there was no way in this world I could ever be lost.

It was impossible for me to fall into a crack in the universe somewhere and never be heard from again. I just knew that I was utterly safe and I always had been forever and ever.

When that block of knowledge was digested by me, as it were, another block of knowledge came in. A whole field of knowledge came in to my being and what I knew then was that the universe runs according to a perfect plan. I knew that the plan was perfect. Everything that we think about as being hard to understand or unfair or cruel or whatever, that was really all without meaning. I know that is very difficult, but I knew this. I understood it. I comprehended it in a way that when I came back from the experience I really couldn't comprehend anymore. I understood that all of the things that we worry about and concern us, we really don't have to worry about at all. There is a perfect plan and the plan is working itself out in its perfection.

Then I simply remember I became more blissful, more rapturous, more ecstatic. I was just filling and filling with this light and love that was in the light. The dynamics of this light are not static at all. They are so dynamic and so much going on in there of love and joy and knowledge. As you take it into yourself, or as it goes into you and you receive it, your ecstasy level just becomes tremendous.

I knew that I had lost all sense of having a body. It was just my consciousness, sort of pure and free floating, and I did not think at all during this part of the experience. I had no thoughts. I was a receiving station. I merely felt and absorbed and took in and did not think at all. I reached the point in the rapture of it all where I thought to myself suddenly, the first thought.

"I wonder how much more of this I can stand before I shatter?"

With that thought, the light began to recede. So, the universe will not let us shatter. We cannot take in more of this bliss and joy than we are able to handle at a time.

The Beautiful Meadow

As the light began to recede, the rapture that I had built up also began to dissipate. For a couple of seconds, I could not remember what was going on. I remember thinking to myself, "I don't know how I got here. I can't remember what's going on." I didn't know if I had been in that light for a minute of a day or a hundred years. I think the force of all that energy just produced a condition in me of amnesia for a couple of seconds. But that was not allowed to last very long either.

Within a second or two, I found myself standing in an absolutely beautiful green meadow. I knew then what was going on. I knew once again who I was, that I had died. My amnesia period was over with.

I stood there in this gorgeous meadow and I remember that the light there was different from the light here on earth. Though it was not that brilliant white light in which I was involved, it was a more beautiful light. There was a goldenness to this light. I remember the sky was very blue. I don't recall seeing the sun. The colors were extraordinary. The green of the meadow was fantastic. The flowers were blooming all around and they had colors that I had never seen before. I was very aware that I had never seen these colors before and I was very excited about it.

I thought I had seen all colors. I was thrilled to death of the beauty that was incredible. In addition to the beautiful colors, I could see a soft light glowing within every living thing. It was not a light that was reflected from the outside from a source, but it was coming from the center of this flower. Just this beautiful, soft light. I think I was seeing the life inside of everything.

When I finished looking at this exquisite beauty, I started to walk. I had only taken a few steps before I saw that there was in front of me a hill, a low hill. There were perhaps 18 to 20 people standing on the hill. They were dressed in robes, very simple, I suppose Grecian type robes. They were also in all these beautiful colors. There were men and women - more men than women I don't know why. I thought about this a little bit, but there were both men and women there. There was no one that I knew, but then I had no close emotional ties on the other side so it is not surprising that there was no one there that I knew.

I felt to myself, "Oh, I want to talk with them." It seemed that immediately I was there on the top of the hill. I don't know whether I was able to just glide there effortlessly or whether I only had to think I wanted to be there and I was there. What I do remember was that I did not have to climb the hill. There was no effort involved in this.

The Moment of Truth

As I found myself at the top of the hill, I saw that over on the horizon and just a little bit lower on the horizon, there was a city. I realized in some way that this was more than just a city, that what I was seeing actually represented a world. I wondered, "Was that the world I just came from or the one I am going to?" I never had a chance to find out because right at that moment, 3 or 4 of the men that were in this group of people over on the hill, came to me and we met.

I said to them, "I know what has happened. I realize that I am dead. I know what's going on."

One man in the group did all the talking to me. He was quite tall, taller than the rest. I remember the robe he was wearing was purple. He had a white fringe of hair that went around his head. The top of his head was bald. He had an absolute marvelous face. It was very noble, very kind, what we would think of as a very spiritual face. He also had about him a great deal of authority, so that I felt I was talking to someone that I could trust completely.

When I said to him, "I know what's going on. I know that I have died," he said, "Yes, that's true, but you are not going to be staying here. It isn't time for you to be here yet."

I must tell you that when we talked, we did not move our mouths. I can remember that I only had to have the impulse that contained the things that I wanted to say and he would immediately be able to get that and answer me. Even though he was not moving his mouth when he talked with me, I could hear the sound of his voice in my inner ear. I know what he sounded like. It was a mental transmission, yet I could hear what he sounded like. For a long, long time, I could remember the sound of his voice.

I said to him again, "Everything that has happened to me since I crossed over is so beautiful. Everything is so perfect. What about my sins?"

He said, "There are no sins, not the way you think of them on earth. The only thing that has any meaning here is what you think."

Then he asked me a question. "What is in your heart?"

Then in some incredible way that I don't understand at all, I was able to look deeply inside myself, really into the very core of me to my essence. I saw that what was there was love, nothing else. My core was perfect love, loving perfection. I had complete love and acceptance for everything. I saw my own gentleness, tenderness, harmlessness. I simply was perfect and loving.

I said to him, "Of course!" I felt I was connecting with knowledge that I had known before. I wondered how on earth had I forgotten anything that important. I have known that.

I said, "Can you tell me what everything is all about - the whole world - everything?"

He said, "Yes."

He told me in only three sentences at the most. It was so simple. I understood that immediately. I had total comprehension of what he was saying to me. I remember again saying to him, "Of course!" Then there was that feeling again of connecting with knowledge I had once had. I wondered how on earth did I forget that.

I said to him, "Since I am not going to be able to stay, there are so many people I want to take this back to. May I take this all back with me?"

He said, "You may take the answer to the first question back, the one about sins. But the answer to the second one, you are not going to be able to remember."

The next thing I knew, there was a tremendous banging in my head. It was loud, it was fast, and it was extremely irritating. It went on for just a few seconds - a loud bang, bang, bang, bang. Then that was over and there was a sort of electronic click in my ear. I will never forget the sound of that click because I remember thinking that it sounded almost like a tape recorder. When the click clicked, that was it, I was back and I opened my eyes. My doctor was standing over me and he was doing something that was extremely uncomfortable.

After the experience, I have never been able to remember the specific two or three sentences I was told. I have tried and I have tried for years after this experience to make a concerted effort to try, especially after I went to bed at night, when I would be lying there in that not quite asleep state. And I never could. Finally, I just stopped trying to do that.

But, I do think I know what he was telling me even though I cannot recall the actual two or three sentences. I know that it has to do with love. I believe it has to do with what I was enabled to see when he said, "What is in your heart?" I looked inside myself and saw that I was perfect love.

Now this does not apply to just me. It applies to all human beings. That is what we are. That is our core. This love, this perfection, this God-ness. I believe that what it is all about is that the world will keep turning and we will have all these experiences and it will go on forever and ever and ever. As we bring that into our consciousness and have it remain there all the time, our connection with God will be there, not somewhere in our unconscious. We will be consciously aware of who we are all the time. I think that's what the journey is.

To obtain Jayne's video write to:

Jayne Smith

150 Lakeside Drive

Lewes, Delaware 19958

"Life is eternal; and love is immortal; and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight." - R. W. Raymond

For more on the NDE phenomenon, visit www.near-death.com

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Anyone Can See the Light

Dr. Dianne Morrissey's NDE

When Dianne Morrissey, PhD, was twenty-eight years old, she was electrocuted and had a very profound near-death experience. Her experience transformed her entire life in a very big way. Today, she is a certified hypnotherapist and has taught 25,000 people to see and feel God's presence during the dream state. Her excellent book, You Can See The Light, will train you to do this very thing yourself. Her practical techniques will not only give you a transformational mystical experience but can actually heal your physical body.

The following is an excerpt from her book, You Can See the Light: How to Touch Eternity and Return Safely. Her previous book on out-of-body experiences is entitled Anyone Can See the Light. Also, I highly recommend her video entitled Soul Journeys Beyond the Light. It is one of the best NDE videos I have ever seen.

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I was electrocuted by 119 volts and dead for forty-five minutes. My near-death experience changed my life. I quit playing professional clarinet and started lecturing at local colleges on near-death and out-of-body experiences as well as related paranormal phenomena. I never believed in such things before I died. I was raised Catholic and I am sure I would not have believed such a story before I died myself.

The doctors said they were amazed that I ever woke up. I asked the emergency doctor how he thought I came back. He said, "I don't know, maybe it was your dog?"

I knew what he meant because during my near-death experience I was floating at the ceiling in my den when I noticed below me was my dog, Tuffy, was trying frantically to awaken me. He scratched my arm and lightly bit the side of my face repeatedly to awaken me. Later, when I was out of the hospital my dog never let me lay on the floor again. He would stand firmly and bark continuously until I would get up. (I guess he thought that the floor caused my near-death experience).

When I first came out of my body I noticed that I was transparent and wondered how I could see so good without my glasses, because I saw them on the floor next to my lifeless body.

I was thrown by such force that my physical body was thrown about 10 feet away from where I was standing and my head went right through the wall about 1-1/2 feet off the ground. I felt no physical pain. I watched it all happen out-of-my body. I had what researchers call a "core" near-death experience. That is an experience where all the phenomena associated with near-death occur.

I wanted to save me at first and became more dispassionate about saving me as my near-death experience continued. I first tried to call for help, but could not as my hand went right through the telephone. I tried to open a door and went right through the plate glass window. I was truly amazed by it all and even tried to get a man's attention walking down my street to save my physical body. I put my hand through his upper left shoulder blade when I tried to shake him. This amazed me.

I moved through many dimensions and at one point I knew I was dead. I met an angel-like woman on the other side who explained much to me, who helped me with my life review. I went through many tunnels, not just one.

I will never forget the love that surrounded me at that moment, or the joy that ran through me. Can you imagine being hugged by God and your angel? It's an experience that defies description!

In this rapturous place, I recognized that there were two aspects of "me." My soul was my consciousness, everything that had made me who I had been and what I had become. My spirit, on the other hand, was the part of me that was now transparent and glowing, dressed in white.

I felt torn between two desires: wanting to go into the light and wanting to touch something tangible and retain my connection with all that was physical. Both desires grew stronger. The light became more intense, more radiant, more loving. As I lifted the lace and extended my hand toward the brilliance, wanting to touch the light, it rushed under the lace and touched the outstretched middle finger of my right hand,

Within the light, I knew that everyone and everything is connected to it. God is in everyone, always and forever. Within the light was the cure for all diseases.

I've found that people who hear about my journey to the Other Side are both fascinated and cautiously optimistic that a similar experience awaits them.

All I can say is, once you have seen the light and then return, life will never be the same again.

[Dr. Morrissey's near-death experience is described in much greater detail in her book, You Can See The Light. Her experience is one of the most profound experiences I have ever read. I highly recommend this book.]

"If I lived a billion years more, in my body or yours, there's not a single experience on earth that could ever be as good as being dead. Nothing." - Dr. Dianne Morrissey

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I think in keeping with my current position of no ensoulment prior to the body/spirit union, I can't say I believe in the existence of a soul after the dissolution of same.

The body decays, the spirit returns to God who gave it. Surely at best the soul sleeps, until such tiome as there is a ressurection?

God bless

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The numerous documented accounts of Near Death Experiences (NDE) gives us an idea of what happens to us when we die, devoid of the religious baggage.

Truth is - everyone survives death. The body is simply a coat for the soul (consciousness) to exist usefully on the earth plane.

Whispers of the Soul

Josiane Antonette's near-death experience

 

Born in France and trained as a nurse, Josiane Antonette had a near-death experience in 1966 when she became aware of her ability to "communicate with the other side." For over 30 years, she has worked with the dying and the living, in hospitals as a chaplain, universities as a teacher, as a spiritual counselor, healer and ceremonial leader. Her understanding of living, dying and the spiritual realms has touched many people.

The following are short excepts from her most excellent book, Whispers Of The Soul. It is a book I highly recommend.

The Realm of Restless Spirits

My near-death experience shattered my world. It shook me into remembering spirit and other dimensions of life, which I had known as a child but had forgotten so that I could fit into society. I feel the jerking of the ambulance as it rushes me through the dark streets of Marseille to the hospital. Twenty-four hours have passed since my underground abortion with a feuseuse d'anges, an "angel maker." Abortion is illegal in France now, and many women die because of the unsanitary conditions of the procedure. I am only twenty-four years old, a young nurse. Am I dying? Am I outside myself observing? I see my body and its pain. I look at my feet; they are pale and lifeless. My legs cannot move. My face is white and drawn.

I watch as the walls of the ambulance dissolve. I see the lights of the city speed toward me. I can see the stars! What am I doing up so high? Why does everything look so small all of a sudden?

Memories pass before my eyes as in a movie.

(She momentarily returns to her body)

I see family members at the foot of my bed through a haze. Suddenly they disappear. From where they stood I see faces rushing toward me with incredible speed. They race toward my face, expanding then dissolving. Face after face washes over me! I am terrified. I'm drifting. I'm unable to keep my eyes open.

Who are these people? Some I recognize as people I've known who have died. Others I do not recognize.

"Stay away! Where is my family?"

Now the whole room is filled with spirits! They hover near me and look into my eyes. I try to push them away. I fight them. The experience seems to go on forever. These are spirits who are restless. Their faces are twisted with pain. They seem lost. It's frightening to see them walking back and forth around my bed. And now – spirits with glowing faces come close to me. They reflect a gentle and powerful light, reminding me of the pictures of beautiful angels that I love so much. I feel nurtured and loved by them, and enveloped by their luminescence. These beings are made of light, and even though their brilliance is intense, I am not blinded. Tremendous compassionate love surrounds me!

Now – I am filled with the essence of love and compassion. This magnetic power is filling every atom of me. I have never before experienced such depth and power of love. I am the power of love! Merging into an intimate dance wherein all boundaries have disappeared, I feel myself one with these beings of compassion.

No words or sounds are being exchanged, and yet communication is happening.

A strong presence assures me, "Yes, you are dying to the world of men. But to us you are being born. Do not be afraid. You have always been with us; we have always been with you. We know you. You just fell asleep during your time on earth and forgot who you are. Now you are remembering."

Revelation fills my awareness – of course, yes! I am of the Beings of Light and they are of me! What is this new surge of energy? It begins as a very gentle vibration rising through the length of my body, from my feet to the top of my head, but now my whole self is vibrating. I hear buzzing. It is growing louder, and now the vibration and the buzzing are becoming one.

I feel such a wonderful release! I'm free! I can't resist this new and wonderful tide of energy sweeping my body upward. Now I'm on the hospital room ceiling gazing down! Everything appears so small: I see my bed; my body looks small and colorless; the people around the bed are tiny. Overwhelming grief and sorrow fill the room, and yet I feel completely disconnected from the scene below me. I hover nearer and look at the strange form lying on the bed. I feel compassion beyond words. I understand everything, but I have no feeling of attachment to anyone. I look at each person standing at the bedside and feel tremendous love.

I want to say to them, "I'm all right. You don't have to worry. I'm all right. Look at me! I'm fine!"

I am love; I am understanding; I am compassion!

My presence fills the room. And now I feel my presence in every room in the hospital. Even the tiniest space in the hospital is filled with this presence that is me. I sense myself beyond the hospital, above the city, even encompassing earth. I am melting into the universe. I am everywhere at once. I see pulsing light everywhere. Such a loving presence envelops me!

I hear a voice say, "Life is a precious gift: to love, to care, to share."

Seeing a World of Darkness

Questions race through my awareness: Why is there so much pain in the world? Why are humans made of different colors? Why with different creeds? Why with different languages?

A vision appears. I see our world from the vantage point of a star, or another planet. Earth appears as a sphere cut in half. The surface of the planet is flat and colorless. The ground is bare. No living plant grows from the earth. Tree branches are Unclad. There are no fruits, no flowers, no leaves. The barren hills are obscured behind a gray veil. It is a passionless place where no one rejoices at the sunrise, and no one knows when night comes. Unclad phantom-like people stand on what seems to be a stage. All the actors are puppets animated by an invisible force. They move in unison and stop all at once.

On one side of half of the sphere, a sun attempts to shine upon the stage, but no one pays attention or makes a sound. Even the birds in the dead trees are silent and motionless. The other side of the half sphere is in darkness. I watch as the darkness grows with frightening speed and covers the whole planet. No one pays attention. Now the darkness covers the sunlight, and now it covers all the bright planets in the universe.

"This is the world with the absence of light, love, and free will," the voice states. "It is the people's choices that created the world you have just seen."

With these words, the nightmarish world begins to dissolve and is replaced by the other half of the planet – a place of vibrant, breathtaking beauty. I perceive how the earth, the sun, the moon, the darkness, the light, the planets, and all forms of life – plants, rocks, animals, people – are interconnected; they come from the same source of light. Everything is united by a transparent net, or web, and each thread shines with great radiance. Everything pulses with the same luminosity – a magnificent light of unparalleled brilliance.

"From the light we have come, and to the light we all shall return," continues the voice.

I realize now I have been standing in the middle of the two worlds. And with this understanding, an image of the path I have been walking appears. It is narrow and rocky; I have the sensation of losing my balance. I grow afraid of falling into the darkened planet. Free will! With the remembering, I gaze at my invisible feet. The narrow path changes into a wide road. The darkness is replaced by light.

"Never, never forget." I hear the voice say.

Merging with the light, I am so overcome with gratitude and overwhelmed by the love that fills me that I cry.

Suddenly, time and space are different again, and I am momentarily aware of my body.

I am aware that the window to the left of my bed is filled with vibrant, powerful light. It seems to be calling me and pulling me toward it like a magnet. I hear the buzzing again, and ,  Whoosh! I'm zooming through the window! I merge with the light! I am the light, and the light is me.

"From the light we have come, and to the light we shall all return," repeats the voice.

What a joy to bathe in this incredible all-knowing, all-loving,

I can travel through walls, ceilings, and space at amazing speed! I visit my son, Philippe, who is only four.

A tremendous power moves me. I am boundless, formless, no longer controlled by my emotions. I am everything. Everything is me!

I'm back in the hospital room. A mist coming from the door facing my bed attracts my attention. In the middle of the vapor is a being with the most heavenly smile. Jean Pierre! It is my cousin, Jean Pierre! I am overwhelmed with joy. As I gaze at Jean Pierre, the hospital room disappears. We are suspended in midair. There are no windows or doors, no ceiling or ground. A brilliant radiance fills all space. He slowly approaches my bed and bends to kiss me. I feel the moisture of his lips on my face, the weight of his body against mine, the gentle touch of his hands on me.

Jean Pierre is the brother I never had. After a long and painful battle with lung cancer, he died two years ago when he was only twenty-two. I am still grieving his passing. How wonderful to see him again! And what is this? He is wearing his butterscotch jacket. This jacket has been the subject of many discussions. He loves it; I hate it.

"How did you know I was here?"

My question is a thought not yet put into words as Jean Pierre answers, "We know everything about you, and we welcome you."

Such a warm feeling of peace! I am complete – whole! I am free of pain and fear. There is no past or future – everything is! There is no need to speak to be understood or to communicate. I feel serenity beyond anything I have ever known. And joy of joys: I can fly! I swirl easily and with great speed around my cousin in a playful way, expressing the ultimate joy that is me. Everything is the way it should be. Never have I felt so clear, so complete, so loved. I gaze at myself: I am whole and healed! I can interact and play with Jean Pierre with my natural vigor. Familiar Beings of Light are here, too. I immerse myself in their loving presence. It's as if they are protecting me and carrying me. We are all interconnected. I relax into the timeless joy. What a glorious feeling! I want to be here forever. Jean Pierre is gazing at me now as the other beings begin to depart. His dark eyes are filled with great tenderness and purity. He turns to leave with the others, and I plead with him to take me with him. His eyes fill with sadness.

"Not now," he responds. "There is much, much work for you. You have to go back and tell them. Life is a precious gift. Each moment is filled with great opportunities. Don't waste your time on earth. Spread love and understanding. We will always be with you – guiding you, protecting you, awaiting the time when we will be reunited – when your work on earth is over."

I watch as Jean Pierre dissolves into the same brilliant light with which he had entered. The light is fading away, too.

The room is empty now. My grief is intense. I start to cry out of desperation and loneliness.

Suddenly, I'm back in the hospital in bed. I am fully aware of my surroundings and my physical state of being. Tubes are implanted in my body. The pain is overwhelming. My sadness is intense. I am so weak I cannot speak. I have lost my voice, and the doctors are alarmed by the tears which are using up the strength I need to recuperate. Crying is all I want to do! My body feels like a suit that is too tight; the room is confining; the smell of sickness surprises my senses; the human condition saddens me.

"Josianne, you're back!" I recognize my sister's voice. I see her careful gaze. "You've been in a coma for three days. We didn't know if you were coming back."

"From the light we have come and to the light we shall return." - Josiane Antonette

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@bari_kade

i have to stop here.

but wen the time comes and u r seeing ur body beside u, just remember u have been told but u chose not to believe. alot of people have become earthbound because they didnt believe there was life after death.

well we have alot to learn. I pray for the Grace and Strenght from the Almighty to understand creation aright and live accordingly.

one love.

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wow! loads of good and fair contributions to this. sorry, i have been away for a few days.

i am back now though!!

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Hi @jokepearl,

Let's look at it this way:

(a) Jesus was raised in His own Body - the very same Body that was crucified:

   John 20: (25) The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord.

   But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put

   my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

   (26)  And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them:

   then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

   (27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach

   hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

(b) The resurrected Body of the Lord Jesus Christ was a glorified one:

   1 Cor. 15: (42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;

   it is raised in incorruption: (43)  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:

   it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

   (44)  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

   There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

(c) What happened to the natural Body of the Lord Jesus at Resurrection?

First, His Body did not experience corruption (decay) -- Acts 2:31:: 'He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.'

Second, His natural body was transformed/changed into a glorified (spiritual) body, which is not subject to the experiences of the weaknesses before He went to the Cross. That is why we read His glorious statement:

   Rev. 1:18 - I am he that liveth, and was dead; and,

   behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the

   keys of hell and of death.

   Romans 6:9 - "Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;

   death hath no more dominion over him."

   2 Cor. 13:4 - "For though he was crucified through weakness,

   yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him,

   but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

(d) Now, after all this, what will the body of the Christian  be like?

Our bodies shall be changed (of fashioned/transformed) to be like His own; so that we shall have the very same glorious experience of His resurrection life - free from the weaknesses of our present bodies:

    Luke 20:36 - "Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;

    and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection."

    Isa. 25:8 - "He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears

    from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth:

   for the LORD hath spoken it."

    I Cor. 15:42 - "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;

    it is raised in incorruption."

    Phil. 3:21 - "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto

    his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue

   all things unto himself.

   Rev. 20:6 - "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:

   on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God

   and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

   Rev. 21:4 - "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be

   no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:

   for the former things are passed away."

And lastly, Romans 8: "(18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (23) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

I hope this outline is helpful.

Regards.

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Adam, Eve, Noah, Melchisidek, Enoch.

All of these men represent people who lived before Jesus Christ. They were not Jews. They were not Israelites.

So it is quite clear that God has been working with all men since before the bible.

Thus there is no need to worry about our African Anscestors. Each had a chance to know God and follow Him.

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@ bari_kade

I agree with a lot u ve said but according to 1 corinthians 15:12-58 especially verse 35-54.

35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

     If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory.

the body we wear after we resurrect is different from the one we re weariing now.

Please explain.

@otuwe

What religion do u practice

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@otuwe,

I don't count as such.

Again, I don't pander to such propagandist theories. Please elucidate what were "added" and what was "removed" as far as "Scripture" is concerned.

My questions are these:

(a) if someone has to come back to redeem himself for a guilt that prevented their ascending, why then would that same person find later at the appointed time that there is no more grace of another earthlife?

(b) talk about redeeming oneself from such "guilty stains", it is amazing that for all of that some of those people will still have to end up in hell; or yet still find that such person will have to be judged again.

You see, otuwe, in order to circumvent the core issues of this very involved subject, some people will pretentiously sound 'Christian'; but their ideas reveal that they're far from being 'Christian' in substance. I raise this concern in hope that you'd have to help your readers know exactly where you stand.

Don't just "sound" it; BE ONE!

You've asked this question before; and a few persons have recommended you please go read Romans 2. There are precise answers to this question; and one shouldn't have to belabour the point.

What series of development are you talking about?

To try and understand the Bible with our spirit without the revelation and illumination of the Holy Spirit is a futile exercise which will lead to even more darkness. To hunger for Biblical truth and yet distrust the Bible is not going to take anyone any closer to God's revealed will declared in Scripture.

In that very scripture (Matt. 17:10-13), there is nothing to suggest at all that Christ made a case in support of reincarnation. As was characteristic of His teaching, He wastes no time trying to argue every idea endless. Rather, He simply spoke the Word in such a way as to lead men to timeless truth.

I've tried to outline this earlier in one of my rejoinder's to Aproko on who the Son of Man was. In John 12:34-35, another example is given us where Jesus never sought to answer the Jews directly as to their question. Why? He had already made the point clear to them time and again; but they wouldn't take His answers for it.

The Bible is clear - once a person dies, he or she awaits the resurrection when the Judgement will take place. Only then shall every man have his praise from God (1 Cor. 4:5).

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@bari_kade

why do we read the bible as if we are reading a novel of some sort.

first lets understand, the bible we see today is not the complete bible we should know. alot was removed and alot was added.

if you look within u wud know there has to be reincarnation or else there wud be no justice on earth.

ok lets assume there was nothing like reincarnation and dat everybody came once. then how do u think our fore fathers who never knew anything like God or the early men (primitive cave men) who didnt even have a language wud be judged.

just understand that there has been series of development  since creation.

one advice: lets understand the bible with our spirit. cos one line in the bible can write a whole book. the bible is coded and its only the intuition dat can decode it and not our physical brain.

just a tip about reincarnation: when the desciples were asking Christ if he was Elijah and all sort, wat do u think was happening there. if there was nothing like reincarnation dont u think Christ wud have told them DAT doesnt exist.

think about it.

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Remember how this was actually described for us in picturesque language in Ezekiel's prophecy. Let's quote the passage from where God asked the prophet a salient question:

Ezek. 37: (2) And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many

in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

(3) And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD,

thou knowest. (4) Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them,

O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. (5) Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones;

Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: (6) And I will lay sinews upon you,

and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live;

and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

(7) So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold

a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. (8 ) And when I beheld, lo, the sinews

and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath

in them.

(9) Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind,

Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain,

that they may live. (10) So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them,

and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

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@otuwe,

As a Christian, it would be of great help to settle your thoughts on Scripture rather than mere humanistic reasoning. Even with that, there are a few issues that are of concern to me in the ideas you've tried to put across. A 5 year-old may not know the deep things revealed in the Word until he/she is mature enough to see what is being said there.

You've both asked a question and answered it in contradictory terms. First, you don't believe that "the body can exist without the spirit"; but yet you speak of the spirit being "severed from the body"!

True, the body without the spirit is a corpse that soon decomposes:

Eccl. 3:20 - 'All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.'

Eccl. 12:7 - 'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall

return unto God who gave it.'

However, the Bible speaks of death as "the body without the spirit" (James 2:26 - 'For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.'). So, yes - it is possible that the body can exist without the spirit; and by which term it speak sof death.

Scripture clearly speaks of the dead being raised from the dead (John 12:1). What this means is that the spirit enters the body again, as we read in the following texts:

Luke 8: (54) 'And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.

(55) And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

1 Kings 17 (22) 'And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah;

and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

On Judgement Day, people will stand before the Great White Throne to receive their judgement in their bodies:

2 Cor. 5: (10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive

the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Rev. 20: (11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth

and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (12) And I saw the dead,

small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened,

which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in

the books, according to their works.

Yes, indeed - for man to be raised from the dead, the spirit has to enter the body again. However, there is a distinction between the resurrection of the just and that of the wicked:

Dan. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,

some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Luke 14: (14)And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee:

for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15 'And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow,

that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.'

Those who stand to be judged will receive their judgement while in their bodies; but they shall not be given to enjoy the blessing of glorified bodies reserved alone for believers who walked with the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor. 15: (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,

and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Php. 3: (20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour,

the Lord Jesus Christ: (21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like

unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all

things unto himself.

I think it is not too much to ask for a teachable spirit - it goes a very long way to determine how much we're willing to receive from God's Word.

Yet, man will be judged not merely in spirit; but as Scripture declares, that judgement will be served to man that he may receive for what he has done in the body. The body of those who stand to be judged will not be changed to be glorified as those which believers will enjoy.

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otuwe ,

you didn't say anything about the soul,

, and do u ve references for reincarnation (biblical)

, there's a difference between "going back to the grave" and "waiting in the grave"

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@lafile,

I agree also that Bobbyaf made some sense in his input; but as ricadelide said:

There. I concur. See it here:

Spirit, Soul and Body - What's The Difference?

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-60507.0.html#msg1213924

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@jokepearl,

the word 'soul' in the context of Gen 2;7 is not referring to the distinct ethereal entity that constitutes a part of man but rather to the totality of man. Many times the word 'soul' is used in that way. If you check some other translations, it is rendered as 'living being' because that's what it connotes. However there's a point to be made from that ie in unregenerated man, the most prominent aspect of his being is his soul his spirit being dead within him (Eph 2;1) while in contrast, the most prominent dimension of a mature believer is his spirit, having the life of God in his spirit, and by that life, bringing all things within him into subjection to God; that's why ICor 15;45 is very important;

"So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" NASB

the contrast is very clear.

@lafile,

i agree a new thread on this topic be opened up; perhaps you could do so, it will make for interesting discussions.

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I think someone should open a thread on the Spirit/Soul/Body 'trichotomy'. Would really like to understand more. I've Always held bari_kade's view but Bobbyaf is making some sense.

Oya, somebody start. bari_kade?

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We have deviated from the topic. The topic is Where do we go when we Die. we ve to clearify the where, before we start talking about the what (or who (maybe spirit or soul.)).

I believe that if a Chistian dies, he/she goes to paradise (see the account of lazarus and the rich man) and after the White throne judgement, he goes to heaven. For the ungodly, he/she goes to hell (A place of darkness) to await judgement and after judgement the Lake of fire.

About the Body, soul and spirit, i believe that the body (which is our container )will return to dust and the real you which is the soul ((Gen 2:7) because without the soul u ain't a man), is the one judged. the spirit will return to God.

, really your spirit is subjected to what the soul does to it so the soul bears the consequence,

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for those who don't know that the soul is a distinct entity just as the spirit and the body are distinct entities, grab a copy of "The Spiritual Man" (three volumes) by Watchman Nee. YOu'd get a very good grasp of those realities and concepts.

"And may God Himself who gives peace, make you entirely holy; and may your spirits, souls and bodies be preserved complete and be found blameless at the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." I Thess. 5;23

Cheers.

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we go[b] HOME[/b] ile labo simi oko.

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@Bobbyaf,

Partly true; but more than that, the soul is as distinct as the spirit is from the body.

'Soul' is sometimes used to denote the person in particular; other times as denoting the rational part of man; and yet at other times to distinguish that part of man that tends more to the animate; while yet a few times it points to the ethereal part of man where his faculties (mind, will, etc) are found.

The spirit, on the other hand, is the innermost part of man where he is able to have fellowship with God. John 4:24 - "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Once we get to see the bigger picture between these distinctions, it becomes easier to see why the soul is used in some instances where, as you said, its meaning might not have been so clear.

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@ Bari_kade

I will agree with you that the soul is distinct from the spirit of man, but it is not an entity within an entity, and that is the point I have been trying to make from day one. Its simply an expression to describe life and the being or personage of man, or beast.

The expression "there goes a precioius soul" is never used to describe an internal entity, but rather the whole person with all his faculties intact, including mind and body.

I am aware that the word soul has been seen in passages that make it appear different in meaning to what it was intended to mean initially, and so I am not sure why that is the case.

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It is appojnted unto man once to die and after this the judgment.

The bible has clearly made us to understand that HEAVEN IS REAL and HELL IS REAL.

When we die we await the judgment of GOD our creator. We are going to give record of how we spent or lived our life here on earth.

"For we shall not all die but we which are remained shall be changed and caught up to meet the LORD in the air. The DEAD in CHRIST shall rise first, those who died in Christ, who died as believers, who believe that there is a GOD in heaven will rise first when the LORD will come to meet his people. When we die it is the soul to that goes to meet GOD, this does not mean that the person has gone to rest cause he/she will have to face judgment as it is clearly stated that after death is judgment.

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@Drusilla,

Perhaps, I'd agree with you that you have a point; but it all depends on what we mean by the terms flesh and body. I'm persuaded at this time that we shall stand in our bodies in the presence of the Lord at the Resurrection.

I remember Job said: "And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God" (Job 19:26) - which again would point to how we shall appear on the Day of the Resurrection.

What this would then mean in NT language is what the apostle Paul expounded upon in Phil. 3:21, when speaking of what the Lord Jesus would grant to believers in that Day:

         (21)  Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,

                 according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

When Jesus rose from the dead, He spoke in terms of what He possessed even in His resurrection:

         Luke 24:39 -- "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself:

                               handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and

                               bones, as ye see me have."

We know that the NT speaks of the Lord's resurrected body in terms of a glorified body. What exactly this means, my small knowledge is unable to fully expound - for it was the apostle John who made this remarkable statement:

        1 John 3:2 -- "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth

                              not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that,

                              when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we

                              shall see him as he is.

Blessings.

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Spiritual body is like the exact opposite of a "flesh body" right?

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A non-existent soul cannot be re-arranged to excuse the idea that Bobbyaf puts across to you. He calls it the "mind" - and I only want to know this: does Ezekiel say that the "mind" is borught back to life?

I think we should be open to the whole picture of whatever the Bible teaches, instead of trying to narrow issues to fit any idea that comes to men's fallible minds.

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@Bobbyaf,

If you would only go through the Biblical use of the word soul, you will see why the Bible does not confuse it at any instance in their various connotations. The soul is distinct from the spirit of man; and it is not something that could be narrowed to a particular idea (such as mind) in the bigger context.

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. " - Heb. 4:12.

It is not a mere question of dividing between the "mind" and "life force" - for the Bible explicates these two quite distinctly.

As for Revelation 6:9, if the soul simply ceases to exist beyond death, then the Bible would not have made reference to quite the opposite of your idea.

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@Drusilla,

Glad you asked. Here:

I Corinthians 15:

"But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" - vs. 35

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." - vs. 44

"the dead shall be raised incorruptible" - vs. 52.

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@ bobbyaf,

i agree with you on two points. one the soul and the spirit are not the same!! the human being has a spirit and not a soul. the word soul was coined by man probably for easier understanding (but that is not the case as it has obviously led to more confusion).

at physical death, the human spirit drops the flesh which is only a cloak that enables man wonder through the earth. the law of gravity then sets in, thus the spirit, depending on his life on earth was led, can either gravitate towards the region of light and paradise, or towards the realm of darkness and damnation. what heppens in those realms is a topic on its own.

your second point is that the judgment has already begun. it has begun all right. 'all that is dead within you shall arise so that it may pass judgment on itself' - all that is dead within you not all the dead cos believe me, those that have died before jesus was on earth are plenty and those bones have gone beyond the point of isaiah's prophecy, they will not rise again

translating the bible from the original hebrew to english has its obvious problems cos when the right words cannot be found, a synonym is used just to pass on the idea. but you will agree with me that the synonym for a word and that particular word may not necessarily have the same meaning, hence this debate and many more to come.

p.s - all the emphasis here are mine.

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When we die, we go to inexistence.

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Bobbyaf,

The soul however can be as Ezekiel shows resurrected. i.e. life brought back into the body brings back the soul, right?

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@ Barikade

This doesn't prove that the soul isn't an expression used to describe the whole being of man. I am not certain as to why the word soul would be used in this way, but here is my take on it. If we are going to view the word soul as existing inside a body, then why would John not logically state that it was the bodies that were slain and not an entity within a body? Wouldn't it be easier to view it as the whole person being slain?

When the prophet Ezekiel said "the soul that sinneth shall die" was he stressing the internal entity of a person or was he addressing the whole person dying?

I'd rather go with the weight of evidence of what the word soul generally denotes, versus expressions I can't fully understand now, or profess to understand, but I am sure there has to be some grammatical explanation.

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thesilent1,

1Th 5:23 And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blamelessly at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I think it is scriptures where we get the idea of a triad being.

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Bara-kade,

What about the idea that "no flesh can enter the kingdom of God", we must be changed into what Christ is, corruptible must put on incorruptible.

I'm not sure that our flesh body must stand before God.

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okay, is the above view based on the Godly trinity in the first place? as in do we have the same tri-makeup simply because god is the same?

just a question

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Revelation 6:9 - "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held."

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@ Drusilla

I agree with you to a point, but I am not too keen on this triad idea. Let me explain. The word soul is really an expression that explains the union of body and spirit, and as you already know spirit means life force. When a person ceases to exist as you're aware, his body returns to the ground, and his "life force" returns to God.

The question that now begs to be asked, what has happened to the soul? Well, it simply doesn't exist anymore. Once there is no union of body and life force, there can be no soul. The original hebrew word nephesh denotes a being, or person. Its a word that was used by Moses to explain what happened to Adam when God blew the life force in him. The bible simply says:

", and man became a living soul" Genesis 2:7 Now the tendency is for people to confuse the meaning of soul and spirit. They are not the same thing. There are some persons who believe in the immortal soul, and believe that when a person dies, their souls wonder somewhere.

The other issue is the judgement. The apostle paul says that everyone will appear before the judgement seat of Christ, but he didn't specify when.

Have you ever really stopped to think as to what point will God judge everyone, including the believers? At what point will God judge the believers, assuming that if the believers remain true to God they would have all gone to heaven. If God doesn't judge the believers at some point before Christ returns, then when will the believers be judged? In heaven? Would it make sense for God to judge the redeemed when they reach heaven? What would be the point? Would't be logical and truthful to think that before anyone can live in the presence of a Holy God they would have to be proven worthy in the judgement?

Listen to what Jesus said: Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

If Christ is coming back the 2nd time to give every man a reward or verdict, based on their works, wouldn't it be fair to think that a judgement can only precede a verdict? Just like any court case. There has to be a trial and evidence must be brought forward, and then after the evidence has been looked at carefully, then a verdict will be announced.

That is why the bible teaches that God's judgement has already started. In Revelation 14:6 in symbolical landuage John announced that "the hour of His judgement is(has) come" Notice that it would come during the preaching of the everlasting gospel to every nation, tribe, and tongue.

Jesus also said in matthew 24 that the end would come when the preaching of the gospel becomes a witness to all nations. It really makes sense to believe that God is using the judgement to determine who is worthy or not for eternal life. It is that judgement that will determine whether or not our names are blooted out of the book of life, and that is why Jesus now stands as our advocate or defender in heaven, interceeding on our behalf.

Soon all cases will be decided, and when its over John says, Revelation 22:11, "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

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@Drusilla,

On Judgement Day, a wicked person - spirit, soul, and body - will be judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Believers are also triad - spirit, soul and body - and they cannot stand before God with any part less. If believers will be judged by any measure, their spirits will be involved as well their souls and bodies.

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