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Who Created Evil? God? So He's To Blame?

He is responsible for evil.

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According to Isaiah 45:7 the Lord that you go to church and worship every Sunday created evil:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

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the bible says that the bible god created evil. . . .

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But don't you also contend he created EVERYTHING?

If God is omnibenevolent how can evil exist?

If he's responsible for everything then he's responsible for evil. Simple.

Always making these ludicrous exceptions but if we were talking about another God we wouldnt even be going this far into this subject.

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God is not the author of evil. Go and study, if you need help simply call for it.

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It's simple. He created evil, so its his fault.

How the hell can these Christians somehow try to get around it? THERE'S NO WAY AROUND IT!

Simple logic. There's nothing to talk about.

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Bushfellow, but will your ground breaking news also lead to the disclosure of the Ambrosia you-know-who was drinking whilst creating evil??

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Put it this way, can anything exist outside of God's knowledge? The answer is obviously no, and that would include evil. God was aware of the potential and extent of evil, but His angels and other intelligent creation weren't.

Does this mean that God created evil in the manner in which we are thinking, based on our limited knowledge of how evil or sin operates? The answer is no. God didn't create evil in the sense that He is responsible for all we are seeing now in terms of effects.

When God created the universe there was no evil in substance, or in practice, but only in potential. The potential of it could have only manifested based on His creatures' choice, or free will. With God knowing all these variables, He laid out the necessary means to protect His creation from sin and evil through a system built on love and justice, long before such creation of life ocurred, be they angels, other intelligent creation, or humans. As a result God made available a choice to obey or disobey, hence His intelligent creation had to be aware of the potential of evil that could only have manifested through selfishness.

So the onous would now rests with His creation not to make the wrong choices. It so happened that one such angel challenged the system, and decieved 1/3 of God's angels to rebell. The chief ringleader who was called Lucifer, was responsible in testing the first human couple into falling for the same deception he invented in heaven. It is he who is still decieving many in the world today, through his army of demons.

God since that time has been pleading to His creation to stay on the side of justice and love, and to resist pride and selfishness. In the fulness of time His Son came as a sacrifice to save those who would accept His father's plan to restore love, righteousness and justice.

God didn't force us to sin, so He cannot be blamed.

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we create evil by our self with all kind of sins that we are making

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[b][/color][/b][color=#770077]Absolutely agree: it is interesting that christians ignore what their own 'holy book' states. If one examines Isaiah 45:5-7, the reader comes across a 'god' disclosure that states god is the creator of good and evil. [font=apple chancery Unicode][/font]

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This is a discussion forum. If you don't want to discuss the issue at hand, don't post!

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[offtopic] I'm sorry about my signature, but I really do want to be in Afeni's undies. Can I get my old location back? The one that says 'in Afeni's undies' . . . I've been crying. I really want to be there. [/offtopic]

Please don't ban me for this. Lmao.

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Nferyn, for once you saved my Bottom instead of striving to disagree with me at all costs. Thanks.

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You need conscious rationalisation to dismiss these contradictions

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Nferyn

You probably got my message wrong. God helps a man who tries to help himself, but does not suceed in doing that-meaning the man has to make an effort, then he finds out that he wansn't successful, God steps in because he sees his intentions. But God does not tell his enemies, I will send you to heaven, no, he tells them, you will burn in hell so long as you persist in your rebellion. He however, out of His mercy grant those who believe in Him Paradise inspite of their shortcomings. Now that is the Islamic concept of Grace. It doesn't have to be more appealing than christianity however, it is just the way it is in Islam.

Yes, God wants evil to exist so that man may prove that he is really worthy of whatever destination he ends up in, in the Hereafter.

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Ajia23,

What is the point of creating something that you already know it will never obey you?If I set my cell phone alarm to wake me at 4am and the same time set it on silence,whats the point of breaking the phone after waking up late?

Religious people have never answer the question why did God  create something he knew would never work and turn round an punish it for not working after all God knew it will never work!

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Laughing my bleeping black a*s out. Gosh, if you weren't married . . .

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Retro

Thank you for giving me the biblical perspective. Islam however adopts a different approach. God created Satan as a Jinn-something made from fire, unlike the angels who were made from light. Jinns have free will like humans, angels do not possess free will. God knew Satan was going to be arrogant, but he still created him, and he asked him to bow to Adam (ASW) who was made from clay. Statn refused. The God asked him to leave heaven. Now, all the while Adam (ASW) was in pardise, but before his creation, God had told the angels that He was going to create a vicegerent on earth. So, he gave Adam (ASW) a free will to either choose to obey him and stay away from that beleguered fruit, or obey the devil and eat the fruit. He chose the latter, and Adam (ASW) was sent to earth thus fulfilling God's initial design of man living on earth. He gave Adam (ASW) a free will to choose where he was going to stay, but He knew Adam was going to make that fatal mistake, however, He did not cause Adam(ASW) to make the mistake. So, you see the difference between His knowledge, and His action. Man was solely responsible for his action. God helps a man that tries to help himself but fails, but God is not an over generous grace or mercy giver that extends the olive branch even to His eneies. That is the God-concept in Islam. It is quite different from that of christianity.

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God is omnipotent, thus he had the power to prevent Satan being bad

God is omnibenevolent, thus he cannot wish for evil to exist

Evil exists, this means that God cannot be omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent at the same time.

Either God is limited or he does not exist.

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Nferyn,

Religious books would say that Adam and Eve sinned against God so the reason for Evil in the world.How can humans be responsible for their actions if they are destined to be the way they turn out to be.

Why is Satan bad if as when he was created God knew he was bad?

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For me this remains the most fundamental question in the world.Why did God create Lucifer?Knowing well in advance the Lucifer/Satan would become arogant,disobedient,evil,and be his rival.Is Satan responsible for his actions?

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Are we blaming God for our sins? A baby cannot think for himself, THAT is different. God gave man the ability to think for himself, to make decisions which he DID. How is that irresponsible? Man has got a mind of his own.

Why is cancer the consequence of smoking?

God's purpose for Christians or the formation of the earth shouldn't be questioned at all. Nobody's got the real answers, we are all assuming. God gave Lucifer a mind of his own, Lucifer decided to turn evil, that's the way things ended up. What don't you understand?

I study Human Science at school. I'm not saying that if man's more careful of his environment, Earthquakes will be gone, I'm saying that they'll be less. Same goes for floods. As for diseases, apparently in the Bible (I asked my mother), God said something about incurable diseases: If man doesn't repent from his sins, they'll suffer this. According to somewhere in the bible, sicknesses are due to man's actions.

How is it wrong? I didn't get it from the Bible (I don't read the bible). I'm a neutral person trying to understand Christianity.

God gave man a mind of his own (I'm tired of repeating myself), you CHOOSE to be evil. What do you expect? A man cheats on his wife, another man murders someone and you expect them to go to heaven? If they don't repent, hello hell!

Lions are dangerous. A woman who adopts a lion is insane (in my opinion). God did not send evil to man. Man knowingly adopted evil himself. Man is to blame for the consequences.

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irresponsible!

questioned? Is it because you have no answers?

not true, but supposing it is, what about those "few" earthquakes that will still happen? What about volcanic eruptions? What about floods and landslides? What about malaria? Isn't that sufficient reason to question the existence of a just, all-powerful God?

knowing fully well that he will turn evil, then he throws man into never-ending torment for turning evil as expected. That makes no sense.

This is like a woman that adopts a lion's cub knowing that it's going to eat her children when it grows up, then when the lion finally eats her children, she says "what an evil lion! I'm gonna have to take revenge by chopping off its limbs and gouging out it's eyes. I'm gonna torture it to death for eating my children". Wouldn't you question that mother's sanity? Wouldn't you blame her for the death of her children, because she knew what would happen?

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1 You are mixing things up here. 'God' is powerful but he isn't a controlling God. He gave instructions on how to live but you decide if you take them or not.

2 Why would he lock up the angels? Because they chose not to be what God created them to be? Like I stated in point 1, he isn't a controlling God. You can live the way you want but you have to be prepared for what comes afterwards (the consequences).

3 God gave Lucifer a chance. The way things ended up shouldn't be questionned. God knows why he created Lucifer.

That is a different issue. They never came accross the bible so I don't think they'lld be punished for that. But if you've heard of the bible and choose not to live your life according to it, that's when you go to hell.

Earthquakes would've been less if men weren't so careless. We can still prevent them from happening. What do you want? A world with no pain, no suffering? A perfect world? Come on, be realistic here. So you want God to say: 'Hmm, there's going to be an earthquake in Indonesia, Angel Simon, press the 'stop Earthquake button' quickly!'? Ha!

Just to clarify things here, I'm an Agnostic, I don't believe in most of the things I'm saying but I'm putting myself in a Christian's shoes. Some of your questions are logical.

Like I said, God created man, man decided to turn evil. If the person didn't say anything because he/she wanted that to happen, that's evil BUT God didn't create the person to be evil. He/She chose to be evil.

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- If God is all-powerful, his angels wouldn't turn evil unless he wants them to.

- If God is just, then even if an angel turns evil (which is impossible, see above) he would lock up tha angel immediately instead of allowing that angel to tempt billions of innocent people to turn evil.

- If God is all-knowing, then he knew that Lucifer was going to turn evil. Yet he still created him? That's evil!

Can you explain how it's fair for your ancestors who never came accross the bible to face everlasting torment?

Thisa is an example of the pseudo-science that pastors spew in their messages. Most earthquakes are natural. My question is this: why does God allow natural disasters if he's not evil and has the power to stop them?

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Do you remember the September 9-11 event? What if there was someone who could have easily stopped the event from happening, but refused to do so and allowed thousands of people to perish in a violent manner? What if the person said "it's not my business"? Wouldn't you agree that such a person is evil? That person is God, if he exists.

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Hahaha!

God didn't create the devil! He created Lucifer who was an angel. Lucifer decided to turn evil. There's a difference.

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If man did not have the power to create then all the condom factories would go out of business!

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Retro

By saying man created evil you are in effect saying man has the power to create. I refute this statement in it's entirety. Man cannot create but can modify. God created Evil. Remember, the devil fell into evil himself before man. It was God who created the Devil and Evil, and the sole purpose is to test man and Jinn to determine if he is truly worthy of God's paradise.

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Dear, heaven is free. The price was paid for by the Precious Blood of the Lamb.

And after you die "once" what next awaits you? 72 virgins? Rivers of beer? Judgment and certain destruction for your unbelief?

It is still not too late to repent.

How "god" can give you "freewill" and yet demand death for those who convert to other religions from Islam, advocate the killing of "infidels" and actively encourage wanton destruction in the "name of god" really beats me.

Where in the quran is freewill mentioned or alluded to?

Why are muslims so quick to "import" christian doctrines to paint over their own inadequacies?

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Hell is for those who didn't live according to the bible. You can't enter heaven as a sinner. A murderer who hasn't repented can't enter heaven, but can go to hell.

God didn't create evil either. He gave man the power to do what he wants and man chose to create evil. You do know that earthquakes are being caused by man's way of living.

If you live right, according to the bible, I don't see why you won't go to heaven.

Note: I'm Agnostic, I'm just putting myself into a Christian's shoes.

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Why is heaven not free? If you had unlimited resources and power, would you charge people to enter a city that you can create a million times over, and then throw them into everlasting fire if they can't pay for it? If you did that, I will see you as an evil person. Apart from heaven not being free, why does hell have to be a place of torture anyway?

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If there's a God, I don't think he enjoys seeing people suffer. If you want to get into heaven, you have to prove that you're worthy of that. It's not free you know.

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If God is perfect, then the works of his hands will be perfect too.

If he knows all things, then he knows those who will turn out good and the bad ones also.

Thus there's no need for any "trial". Unless God enjoys seeing people suffering, it just won't happen.

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Near - death? What Bull. U die only Once. PLEASE!!!

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Hey rottweiller

Well done. Give it to them, show them what christianity is really about . I dey enjoy you.

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You are making so many confident claims about an experience you never had. Could easily be just a dream. If you were the one who experienced it we might have been able to probe you further and come to that conclusion.

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Wait till you experience one yourself.

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Yes, in this case I was wrong. My bible knowledge is slipping away, as it should. Sorry guys.

Regardless of that, the so-called life after death experiences are just psychological phenomena that occur when blood isn't flowing to the brain properly. They are basically dreams; they don't prove anything.

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But we've read of cases in the same Bible where the dead were resurrected.

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Since ALL things came from God, then God did create evil (in an indirect sort of way)but most of the evil that exists came from God deciding to give man free-will

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KAG,

I heard Charles Darwin recanted on his deathbed too. I'm not sure I believe it. people always like to tell stories to fit their beliefs, and we can't always verify the truth especially in cases where the person the story is about is dead.

That's why Christians shouldn't base their beliefs on men. God has already told us all we need to know in the bible. If religious leaders say there is no God, good for them. We shouldnt believe because of anybody.

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Seun, that passage u quoted in the bible is more about reincarnation than "life after death" experiences. I suppose by life after death, u mean either the Resurrection of the dead christians believe in or the experiences ppl claim to have had during a period when they died and rose again. The bible doesn't in any way contradict this. It tells us that there'll be a resurrection of the dead, and actually refers to death as sleep. Concerning dying and rising again, there are several instances in the bible - both O.T and N.T. - where people died and were raised to life again. What the bible is against is the idea of reincarnation, and communicating with ghosts or spirits of the dead, and all those Ouija board sorts.

God gives every man enough time to repent, and being God He deciedes what is enough for each man.

I don't believe many of those stories we hear about ppl who die and say God sent them back to preach to the world or to tell a "special" message to the world. Like the story of Lazarus and the rich man, there are enough ppl on earth to preach to the world.

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mrmayor,

thanks. concerning the church stuff, i have no interest at all in becoming a pastor, or starting a church. God hasn't called me to that, and i'm very glad about that.

I agree that evil came into the world through Adam and Eve, afterall they were the first human beings. However, even before Adam and Eve evil was present. They only brought it into our world. Lucifer was the first to do evil and he tricked Eve into sinning against God. God created Adam and Eve sinless, and gave them some measure of independence. He was friends with them, He had told them not to do something. He had warned them of the presence of evil. That was as far as He would go. They had to choose by themselves between evil and good. They chose evil.

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I must say this is a very interesting thread. Buhahahahha. Crazy Nigerians,

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Muslim 'life after death' experience: www.near-death.com/muslim.html. Vivid dreams != proof that God exists!

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BTW, that professor is a bitter PERSON. I read the whole thing. The guy is just mad that his brother died of cancer.

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@ seun, that thing u postes it BULLSHIT! And that student isn't a CHRISTIAN. Nigga didn't even quote the bible, didn't argue his case, he just kept saying YES to the professor.

He's not a christian.

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Rottwil, when was heaven privatized?  And how much did u pay for it?  Who made u a judge over others (including me)?  Have you been appointed into the bench as a Chief Judge in heaven?  Clear first the specks in your eyes, before you look to clear that in your neighbours'.  If you are a christian (as u proudly brag) how come you talk evil against your brother?  How come you wish me hell?  Did you not read that portion in your Bible which recommends that you should pray for those who hate you and ask for forgiveness for them?  Does your utterances in this forum depict you as a true christian? What would be the ticket to heaven, is it how many times u say u are born again? Or would u be judge based on your living the Christ life?  I assume the latter is the case.  If you like, condemn all the other people who may not tow your narrow-mindedness, it doesn't deviate from the TRUTH.  God cannot be mocked.  Every action of yours on earth shall be counted for or against you.  That is a universal rule, known and believed even by etheists.  The |Bible says, seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and every other thing shall be added unto you.  Have you sought the kingdom of God and His righteousness?  Are u without sin?  Can you truly say you are without one?

It is a typical Nigerian way of life to look for easy escape routes.  I tell you, if you don't follow christ and do all his iwords, you won't make heaven, no matter how much Christ you profess or shout.  You must be very meek and humble in your believe, and use it to convince me that if I cross-over to what u belief, I would be the better for it.   But from my hort stint with you now, I can conclude that u are nothing more than a fanatic, an Osama Bin Laden within the christian domain and who knows, you seem capable of flying fry-pans into the National Mosque or ride Okada into the Okija shrine.   You 4get that everybody has freedom of worship, and that there was a thief who was executed with Christ, who is in heaven with him, whereas the high priests of the synagogues who were supposed to have known Christ and believed in Abraham, are supposedly in hell for their  roles in killing the SON of God.  

please go back and read your Bible, don't display your ignorance on this forum.

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Am I the only one that finds the above statement disturbing? I have no idea what the brotherhood fella is all about, but right about now, based especially on your words, it's looking a whole lot better than your religion.

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