«Home

Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right?

Who was Abraham's father? Azar (Quran 6:74)? or Terah (Genesis 11:26)? Which is right, the Bible or the Quran?

For a neutral, this Abraham Geneology looks very confusing and either one of the holy books is telling the truth and one of them is a blatant lie OR they are both false?

2 Different fathers can't biolgical parent a Man! So which is which

Avatar
Newbie
54 answers

No need of too much aguement,what i know is that i'm in the right path,no shaking! I have read much from the both sriptures.

Qur'an never change and i've seen many types and alterated Bibles,though i'm not here to condemn others religion but if you are sure of what you are holding,you may stand by it. May GOD open our eyes.

Sallam alaykum!

0
Avatar
Newbie

^^^^^^^^^^ you may just as well shake the cyber dust at me.

but in all of that, you didn't answer the many questions that i raised from the 3 verses. these were just what i saw without having to read the verses but just casually. defend you religion by proving it with clear evidence. i guess you dont have any, sine jesus you said will judge the living and the dead, yet it is the 12 followers that will judge the not living and dead 12 tribes of israel, i guess if jesus position is to hold, yet God will Jude all through jesus. each verse makes the others lies.

man. make up your mind and stop inviting anyone into confusion, if you choose to be in it for a lifetime.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@ Sweetnecta,

You sure sound like one who doesn't believe the bible. As for your questions they are not uncommon because the Holy Ghost does not indwell you neither are you ready to accept Him. And what more shall I say unto you since you have chosen to reject Christ.

"And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them." - Mark 6:11

0
Avatar
Newbie

^^^^^^

[Quote]« #61 on: Yesterday at 10:27:45 PM »

@ Sweetnecta,

I pray your eyes are opened before the appearing of Jesus Christ. But shall you claim ignorance on his day or say "I never heard the gospel"defintely not for you have heard it at least through NL but you are free to either accept or reject.[/Quote]i am very satisfied at the rejection. mashaAllah.

[Quote]"In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge." - 2 Timothy 4:1[/Quote]who is the 'one' 2 timothy 4;1 talking about God or Jesus? please read the verse very thoroughly before you respond. who judges the living and the dead; God or Jesus? who is the boss; God or Jesus, because one is the boss of the other? if its Jesus, what is God and if its God, what is Jesus and who really has power and who is faking power?

[Quote]]"Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when[b] the Son of Man[/b] sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or motherf or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life."- Matthew 19: 28 - 29[/Quote]it is son of man from the lips of Jesus, unless that verse is mistaking, Jesus is no son of God.accordingly, there is a glorious throne, for Jesus, so i ask what Throne belongs to God since God is different from Jesus when you read 2 timothy 4;1, above? now there are 12 thrones for his followers. the whole christian population is 12, since they are the ones who follow him? these 12 christians are to judge the 12 tribes of israel. i am not an israel tribe man, so i will not be judge by any of the 12 judges. but above, in 2 timothy 4;1, it states Jesus judges the living and the dead. this verse of matthew 19;28 proves it wrong because the whole community of christianity, numbering a mere 12 entities shall judge the 12 tribes of israel. are the 12 tribes neither living nor dead, being of different category altogether? please explain. finally, it s amusing that this statement of matthew 19;28 was made before it was stated judas iscariot betrayed him. please name the 12 judges because i am certain that judas iscariot must be among them, and if you replace him, you will have explain it from the context of jesus said in matthew 19;28 and no other verse allowed.

[Quote]This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. - Romans 2: 16[/Quote]roman2;16 disagrees with 2 timothy 4;1 and matthew 19;28; neither one mentions God as the Judge, alone nor through Jesus. both both even differ with each other and with romans 2;16 in plain view we now have 3 scenarios of the day of judgement only on who will judge! this is pure confusion. but i am willing to read your trying to untangle yourself out of the pickle you 'jar' yourself.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@ Sweetnecta,

I pray your eyes are opened before the appearing of Jesus Christ. But shall you claim ignorance on his day or say "I never heard the gospel"defintely not for you have heard it at least through NL but you are free to either accept or reject.

"In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge." - 2 Timothy 4:1

"Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or motherf or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life."- Matthew 19: 28 - 29

This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. - Romans 2: 16

0
Avatar
Newbie

@ albadry,

Jesus died and resurrected on the third day. His death was prophesied many years before he was born. He himself said he would die and be raised on the third day. Those to whom he appeared at resurrection testified about his resurrection. Even historians attest to it.

[center]By oppression and judgment he was taken away.

And who can speak of his descendants?

For he was cut off from the land of the living;

for the transgression of my people he was stricken.b

He was assigned a grave with the wicked,

and with the rich in his death,

though he had done no violence,

nor was any deceit in his mouth.[/center] - Isaiah 53: 8 - 9

Jesus declared: "I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." - Revelation 1: 18

Why did Jesus die?

These are some reasons:

1. He died to become the final sacrifice of sin. Before Jesus when the Jews sin they make sacrifices for their sins. Sacrifice was a requirement to cover up sin. But confession and repentance through the blood of Christ is all we need today. Our sins are not forgiven because we hurt our bodies or kill some animals but because we approach God on the basis of Christ's death. That is why Jesus is figuratively called the lamb of God that takes away our sins. i.e the only acceptable sacrifice for sin that we need.

2. Jesus died to open salvation to all men. Now all men of all nations can approach God through Christ

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. - John 3: 16 - 18

3. Jesus died and rose again to give believers in him hope. How shall we claim that there would be resurrection if our saviour lay in the grave or no one has ever been resurrected. Jesus died and rose again.

God doesn't contradict himself and he doesn't lie. He would not say Jesus would die and be resurrected and then make him not to die. One question would be why then did Jesus come the first time? Shall we say so that He can fake some sort of death? Certainly not

You asked how is it that He would die and still perform some functions when He returns.

Jesus did not start to exist when He was born by Mary. He has always been from the beginning, before the Sun or the universe was made He has always been. Joseph cannot claim to be his father for God is His father. It was love that brought him to deliver men from sin hence his death and resurrection. John recorded one of Jesus' claims

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" - John 8:58

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. - John 1: 1,2,14

To think Jesus is a prophet is not to understand his person. He would return in his glory. He has always been with God and we would see him in glory. Angels and demons also know this truth.

When you say Jesus is the Christ then I would say what would you do with this Christ? I understand that Muslims always claim that Jesus is just a prophet and did not die. The fact is Muslims are not the only people who think this way. The Jews too think this way. And such was Paul's commitment that he even went about killing Christians for what he considered blasphemy before He met the Lord Jesus Christ . I can only pray that you would come to understanding because Christ shall be revealed at the end of time and it shall be clear to all humanity that he is Lord.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@belabela; « #52 on: June 27, 2011, 03:14 PM »

[Quote]@ Sweetnecta

I so much appreciate your zeal to stand up for what you believe but the problem I have with you is that you are sincerely wrong. I am not sure if you have ever being to Mecca or lived in Saudi Arabia but let me tell you my encounter with a very faithful Muslim from Riyadh in one of my few times around

I asked did the Quaran talk about Jesus?

Reply: Yes[/Quote]in truth, unlike the way the bibles talk about Jesus.

[Quote]I asked Where is Jesus according to the Koran?

Reply: He is in heaven but he didn't die like Christians claim]/Quote]it is Quran, not Koran. you didn't ask him about death, so i dont know why he was adding that. jesus was lifted to heaven. his present condition from that time is not by business.

[Quote]I asked Is there any chance that Jesus would return to the world according to the Koran?

Reply: Yes he would come back to judge the world and destroy the Antichrist[/Quote]you arab man knows less about his religion the reason he said Jesus will return to judge. Judgment is Allah's Alone. Jesus is a messenger.

[Quote]At that point I said to this faithful Muslim "and Jesus would judge Mohammed too!" I continued and said if you believe there is an Antichrist who is the Christ?

There was no answer.[/Quote]Jesus can't judge me and it is impossible to judge his master in prophetic mission. read surah Al Maida and you will know the condition of jesus. read surah Maryam and the one who will be given the right of intercession, first is Muhammad [AS]. again, your arab man shows what we already know; islam is not arab religion.

[Quote]I leave you with these words "If your holy book says that Jesus would someday judge the world why don't you take time and know more about Jesus."[/Quote]show me where in the Quran that it is stated Jesus will judge the world. show me in your bibles that jesus says he will judge the world and the Judge is not God Who sent him. and i already have Jesus beside me. me and Jesus are together as muslims lining behind Muhammad [as], our leader our imam.[/quote]

0
Avatar
Newbie

When did I say Jesus was in heaven? Are you imagining words on my post?

Muslims are awaiting Jesus to defend the religion of God - Islam, and bring peace to earth.

0
Avatar
Newbie

How did the Muslims conclude that Jesus was taken to heaven? The Jews who don't believe in Jesus say that Jesus is not the Christ but Jesus died on the cross and His disciples stole the body.

Now here I see a Muslim saying Jesus is indeed the Christ, although He did not die but Jesus was taken to heaven.

I see two lies, half truths, if you put two and two together, you will know that Jesus is indeed the Christ, He died on the cross and rose again and was taken up into heaven.

The Jews are still waiting for the Christ and the Muslims are expecting Jesus Christ to return and destroy them, Hallelujah!

The marvellous works of God!

0
Avatar
Newbie

Dear belabela,

Sorry for the delayed response - life is busy. With regards to your question about the Messiah: I can confirm to you that Jesus IS the Messiah. When God makes reference to him in the Quran, he typically calls him Al-Maseeh (The Messiah) Isa (Jesus) ibn Maryam (son of Mary). In Islam, Jesus (peace be upon him) will be the one to reveal who is the anti-christ (as the antichrist will lie and claim to be the Christ), and Jesus will be the one to destroy the anti-christ. It's noteworthy that our stories are very close, even though the prophet Mohammed lived in the Arabian Desert and was illiterate his entire life. This, in my opinion, is further proof that the religions came from the same source (i.e. we are both believers in the one God).

Now, according to the Quran, Jesus did not die on the cross, and God says in the Quran that he had reclaimed Jesus only to bring him back at a later time (i.e. at the end of time, to destroy the anti-christ and bring peace to earth). This is by divine decree of God alone, Jesus is only the messenger and deliverer, he has no divine decree of his own (neither does the prophet of Islam, Mohammed, in case you were wondering). Prophets in Islam are humans - they have been given divine guidance and assistance, but they do not have any decree. They rely on God alone, and believe in his oneness - he has no children or partners, and he was not born into creation as he is the one who creates creation.

I have a question for you: Do Christians believe that Jesus died? If so, how is it that he will return to destroy the anti-christ? I'm not fully understanding this concept of Jesus dying for people's sins, but returning one day to fulfill more duties.

Thanks.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@ albadry,

Thanks for your response. I do not read the Koran so I can only ask a muslim or whoever claims to understand its teachings. Anyways you made an interesting point about the antichrist and I have a question for you. If Jesus would destroy the antichrist who is the Christ?

The bible calls Jesus the Christ i.e Jesus the Messiah or Jesus the saviour. I would like to know if the Koran talks about the Christ. If Jesus is the Christ and you know he would come to destroy the Antichrist then you might want to know more about Jesus. You know antichrist simply translates to against christ or another Christ

The bible says in 1 John 2: 22 "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son." That is a letter written by the closest man to Jesus while he walked the earth i.e John the beloved.

John also wrote "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour." - 1 John 2: 18

I would like to know what the Koran says about the Christ. I am sure the Christ is so important that God would see that the AntiChrist is destroyed.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@belabela - there is nothing in Islam or the Quran that suggests Jesus will "judge" anyone. Allah declared in the holy quran that Jesus did not die on the cross, and that God had taken him and he will return - and his return is one of the signs of the final hour (the day of judgement). His role will be to destroy the antichrist as well as unify the Muslims and Christians. There is no "judgement" that he performs on anyone.

@seyibrown - The form of God is something the human brain cannot comprehend, because we can only think within the boundaries of our limited world. How can God be in a place, when he created all places and the notion of a place? How can you say "Where" about God, when he is the one who created meaning for the word "Where"? There is absolutely nothing that is too hard for God and there are absolutely no limits to his power, but the human body and its limitations are not attributes that can be ascribed to the creator of the universe. Why would God have to come down in human form when the entire world we live in (our bodies, the air we breath, nature etc) is full of signs that point to a superior perfect creator? Also, why wouldn't God come in human form more regularly to make us understand? Why only Jesus? And if Jesus died on the cross "for our sins", then how does that translate onto God? Did God die on the cross? May God forgive me for even typing such a thought. The belief in God is the belief in that which we cannot see or hear - which is why we (as Muslims, Christians and Jews) all believe in God in this day in age even though we have not had any prophets or messengers sent to us. Please, forget the Quran and the Bible for a second and step back to think about what attributes you are ascribing to the one who created everything around you. Look at what an amazing system your body contains, look at the ecosystems around you in nature, why would the creator of all these things need to be placed in a human body to prove existence? Food for thought.

Peace.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@ Sweetnecta

I so much appreciate your zeal to stand up for what you believe but the problem I have with you is that you are sincerely wrong. I am not sure if you have ever being to Mecca or lived in Saudi Arabia but let me tell you my encounter with a very faithful Muslim from Riyadh in one of my few times around

I asked did the Quaran talk about Jesus?

Reply: Yes

I asked Where is Jesus according to the Koran?

Reply: He is in heaven but he didn't die like Christians claim

I asked Is there any chance that Jesus would return to the world according to the Koran?

Reply: Yes he would come back to judge the world and destroy the Antichrist

At that point I said to this faithful Muslim "and Jesus would judge Mohammed too!" I continued and said if you believe there is an Antichrist who is the Christ?

There was no answer.

I leave you with these words "If your holy book says that Jesus would someday judge the world why don't you take time and know more about Jesus."

0
Avatar
Newbie

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ i guess the author of revelation will have to stand as another comforter because it seems to me that he fulfilled he will hear from God and will repeat it.

if he is not the another comforter, then you above verses from revelations are completely irrelevant and out of place.

further pay attention to what the verse from the Gospel of John says about Jesus to God; Jesus reporting that those who God allowed for him while on earth, they were with him. after it, when he was not on earth any longer, he had no control over anyone.

Wetu, you and others alive today and I were not alive and part of those people Jesus was referring to, in your above verse. We came after the advent of the another comforter Jesus said will come to guide to all things, including correcting and and all mistakes that was prevailing after Jesus left the earth.

if your revelations author was not the another comforter, and i am confident he is not, then meet the Messenger of Allah, Annabihullah Karim, Sayiddina Muhammad [AS].

if you are a woman, he elevated your stature, status.

if you are a man he made you recognized your position.

either case, he truly tied your heart to your God Who has the absolute right to Lord over you.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Whatever you want to believe sweetnecta. Keep on trying to deceive Christians. You will succeed in fulfilling the scriptures:

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

You will convince those who are sons of perdition but what is your reward? The Muslims who were not told the truth see Jesus in dreams at least, as for you, you know the truth but refuse it:

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@Seyibrown: « #47 on: Today at 04:18:05 PM »

[Quote]Quote from: albadry on June 24, 2011, 01:49 PM

That is quite a shallow statement, but I will challenge you sir on your statement. How could God be in heaven, or in you? How could God be any where? Isn't time and space (and place) a concept that is only known to us in this world? Surely the almighty creator is beyond such restrictive attributes such as place/space and time? Aren't you contradicting your very belief in what is "marvelous" in your eyes by stating that the very marvelous one is limited by such worldly attributes? Which brings me to the next point of treating Jesus, the man, the human, as God. How could the power that created the universe in a few days be limited within a human being? And why would such a supreme creator be limited to the mere body of a human? Why does the supreme creator need to be in a woman's womb? Doesn't it just sound ridiculous saying it?

Do not get me wrong friend, I'm not trying to attack your belief, but I am just extending a trail of thought to you that you may not have considered.

In terms of names (Immanuel etc) - I really don't think that is anything worth arguing about.

Peace.[/Quote]you just had to take the extreme position to the above just because you must disagree with, reasonably so or otherwise. in this case it is otherwise by your entry, below;

[Quote]Where, then, is God? Who/what stops him from coming down to his people in a form (Jesus, through the womb of a woman) they would understand? What form is God in? If you met God would you recognise him? Are you not LIMITING what God CAN do when you say he CANNOT come down in human form? Is there ANYTHING TOO HARD FOR GOD TO ACCOMPLISH (this includes coming into the world through 'the womb of a woman)?

[/Quote]is there not something that you see as unfit of your present stature/status? will behave like a little girl, now that you are a mother? do you think it is appropriate for you in normal ordinary circumstances, today to wear diapers?

then how do you think there is nothing unfit for God to do, especially when Jesus was saying God is in heaven? was Jesus in heaven when he said tis to his companions? I dont think Palestine's Jerusalem is part of heaven, yet that was the place that Jesus declared that God is in heaven, when Jesus was on earth.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@Wetu: « #45 on: Yesterday at 05:20:04 PM »

[Quote]The Quran cannot save anyone, Jesus is the Saviour of the world.[/Quote]Quran is the means of absolute safety. God is the Only One Who saves, the reason your bibles record that Jesus lamented "my God, my God, why . . . ."

Jesus can't save anyone.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Where, then, is God? Who/what stops him from coming down to his people in a form (Jesus, through the womb of a woman) they would understand? What form is God in? If you met God would you recognise him? Are you not LIMITING what God CAN do when you say he CANNOT come down in human form? Is there ANYTHING TOO HARD FOR GOD TO ACCOMPLISH (this includes coming into the world through 'the womb of a woman)?

0
Avatar
Newbie

[Quote] 6:74 (Remember) when Abraham said unto his father Azar: Takest thou idols for gods ? Lo! I see thee and thy folk in error manifest! [/quote]

Sallam Alaikum (Peace) to all the contributors. Great and educating inputs on the topic. I stopped at each one and fed my eyes. There are many points along the way that provoked my thoughts but I'm going to swallow my reactions to them and focus instead on the topic.

I have read the Quran, the OT and the NT. I agree that the scriptures have literal as well as spiritual meanings.

We should consider the ethnic customs as background in our analysis of the meaning of 'Azar' and as well 'Terah'.

Let's start by looking at these names: 'Iskander' and 'Nefari Tintin'.

These are household names and I'd like help from someone to render them into their modern spellings.

Let me say Azar is not too far from Terah.

Is it possible that Azar is a title? Men of noble titles are adddressed by their title, even in intimate and informal conversation such as this between Abraham and his Azar.

Here is the many ways in which Prince Williams can address his father

1. Father

2. Duke

3. Prince

4. Windsor

Should there be an argument 2000yrs from now about these varieties?

0
Avatar
Newbie

The Quran cannot save anyone, Jesus is the Saviour of the world.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@belabela; « #43 on: Yesterday at 06:51:31 PM »

[Quote]The bible is not a book it is a collection of books or a library of books. Some have 66, some 79 some 80 depending on what bible you read. However thousands of years before The Quran was written or Islam founded history has been recorded about the Father of Abraham . A book believed to be written by Moses said Terah is the father of Abraham ( Genesis 11:27). Also there is a book called the book of Jasher ( this book was refered to in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18). T[b]he book of Jasher is another book that detailed the history of man from the begining though not in the bible it also says Terah begat Abraham

"And it was in the night that Abram was born, that all the servants of Terah, and all the wise men of Nimrod, and his conjurors came and ate and drank in the house of Terah, and they rejoiced with him on that night."- Jasher 8: 1

"And Abram the son of Terah was waxing great in those days in the house of Noah,[/b] and no man knew it, and the Lord was with him."- Jasher 9:11

Except if the Quran writes Terah's name in another language. Terah is the father of Abraham. Somebody cannot just wake up in and singlehandedly rewrite the history of mankind. I decided to sight other references apart from the bible to show you that all histories kept by men says Terah is the father of Abraham.[/Quote]your whole argument against Quran is lost on the bold, above. apart from the varied number of books in different bibles, to argue against the Quran with 'A book believed to be written by Moses said . . .'. moses wrote his own death and funeral. the death and funeral thingy kills moses book.

the same moses that God sent an errant, and he was on his way and the same God was eager to kill him before he got to the place he was sent. it was reported that it was the wife of moses who exposed her hair that stopped God. can we accept an account of a book that says God can not achieve His objective?

0
Avatar
Newbie

The bible is not a book it is a collection of books or a library of books. Some have 66, some 79 some 80 depending on what bible you read. However thousands of years before The Quran was written or Islam founded history has been recorded about the Father of Abraham . A book believed to be written by Moses said Terah is the father of Abraham ( Genesis 11:27). Also there is a book called the book of Jasher ( this book was refered to in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18). The book of Jasher is another book that detailed the history of man from the begining though not in the bible it also says Terah begat Abraham

"And it was in the night that Abram was born, that all the servants of Terah, and all the wise men of Nimrod, and his conjurors came and ate and drank in the house of Terah, and they rejoiced with him on that night."- Jasher 8: 1

"And Abram the son of Terah was waxing great in those days in the house of Noah, and no man knew it, and the Lord was with him."- Jasher 9:11

Except if the Quran writes Terah's name in another language. Terah is the father of Abraham. Somebody cannot just wake up in and singlehandedly rewrite the history of mankind. I decided to sight other references apart from the bible to show you that all histories kept by men says Terah is the father of Abraham.

0
Avatar
Newbie

"How could the power that created the universe in a few days be limited within a human being?"

Who said He is limited within a human being?

0
Avatar
Newbie

That is quite a shallow statement, but I will challenge you sir on your statement. How could God be in heaven, or in you? How could God be any where? Isn't time and space (and place) a concept that is only known to us in this world? Surely the almighty creator is beyond such restrictive attributes such as place/space and time? Aren't you contradicting your very belief in what is "marvelous" in your eyes by stating that the very marvelous one is limited by such worldly attributes? Which brings me to the next point of treating Jesus, the man, the human, as God. How could the power that created the universe in a few days be limited within a human being? And why would such a supreme creator be limited to the mere body of a human? Why does the supreme creator need to be in a woman's womb? Doesn't it just sound ridiculous saying it?

Do not get me wrong friend, I'm not trying to attack your belief, but I am just extending a trail of thought to you that you may not have considered.

In terms of names (Immanuel etc) - I really don't think that is anything worth arguing about.

Peace.

0
Avatar
Newbie

God is in heaven, God is in me. It is the Lord's doing and it is marvellous in our eyes.

0
Avatar
Newbie

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ as ssalaamualaykum wa rahmatUllah.

[Quote]For sweetnecta, I think you still do not understand my point. Also, I think you do not understand how the study of Islamic religion is conducted. Yes, the Quran has clear guidance in it, but it has a lot of deep meanings, and if it did not, it would not be the miracle that God has given the holy prophet peace be upon him. The only way for us to study the Quran is to learn it from our scholars. Scholarship in Islam is inherited my friend, not in a family line, but in a scholarship (teacher to student) line. The scholars of Islam inherit the knowledge from a holistic context (i.e. the Quran, the Sunnah, the actions of the companions and the imams and awlyaa). I am in no way claiming scholarship over here because I have no teacher to inherit this from, but I am pointing out to you that an authoritative source (a qualified scholar, sheikh al-shaarawi) is where I got my information from. Your understanding of the Quran (and mine) is worthless compared to a scholar. Also my friend, your talk of prophets having non-believers for wives and sons is not relevant here, we are not discussing wives and sons, we are discussing fathers. If you would like to see the video where the scholar explains this, it is available here in Arabic:

From this perspective, we can deduce that Azar was not the father of the prophet Ibrahim. Was Terah the name of his father? As Muslims, we don't know and we don't care, because this is an irrelevant detail that makes no difference to our belief, hence why it was not mentioned in the Quran or the biography of the prophet.[/Quote]thanks, my brother in faith.

if a muslim takes the Quranic verses, literally, he will not arrive in the opposite position to Islam. let use 'no compulsion in religion' verse as an example. a person who thinks he can fight or kill a person who converts from Islam will have to look at this verse, and others, eg 'then he becomes a disbeliever, then he returns to being a believer, then . . .' and others like 'Allah Will judge them . . .', 'whoever takes a life, t is as if he has killed the whole of mankind', to come to conclusion that the overwhelming evidence is not on the side of 'kill whoever leaves islam, without any addition reason that is for it'.

while i am not in scholarship of islam, Allah gives humans the ability to think. what takes precedence is the Quran. and the one who understands Quran best is the messenger [as]. next were the sahaba [ra] who heard him. the 4 imams were reported to give disclaimer, thus 'if you come to what rasuul [as] says, and you find it different from mine saying, abandon my saying and take what the messenger [as] says, because ths is my position [except when i made my statement, i did not know what the messenger said].'

there is no way that anyone will go against the Quran, and the evidence for the father of Ibrahim are many verses, with a name Azar mentioned in one of them, while there is no time it is indicated that he was referring to his uncle.

my brother i asked, who is the father of prophet Lut [as], a nephew of prophet Ibrahim [as]? was his father a believer, too, since his father didn't migrate with him and some people are saying that the prophets are never from a progeny of disbeliever[s]. incidentally, Ali bin Abi Talib [ra] was a son of a disbeliever. yet the messenger [as] was reported that he was to him like Harun [as] was to Musa [as]. Harun [as] was a prophet though Ali bin Abi Talib [ra] was not, whereby the messenger that though there will not be a prophet after him, if there could have been, Ali would have been the prophet.

scholars can be wrong, yet get a credit for effort. an uneducated can be correct, but for lack of scholastic thought can get no credit. but thank for the dialogue. we shall continue to strive for excellence.

0
Avatar
Newbie

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ show us who ever addressed Jesus immanuel in the bible. even his mother will be sufficient.

further just somebody is predicted to have a name, does not mean that he is the meaning of that name; was God on earth and no more in heaven, when jesus was on earth?

who is confused, since jesus said from his lips the Lord's prayer in which he said God is in heaven?

0
Avatar
Newbie

Muslims need to be very honest with them selves concerning the author of the quran. History has thought us that the qurqn was written by a single writer and the singular mslim prophet Mohammed. The content of the quran and the bible all took place here on earth, abraham and co live on this same planet so we don need any heavenly being to tell us about human history,Historians wrote abot lots of events that took place over time. The bible was written by men who lived at those times. The argument by Muslims that God almighty told mohammed a large portion of events that had been recorded in the bible cannot be true.This is because since those stories were not new at that time God wouldnt av bothered Himself telling a prophet old tales. The Jews had the Torah for more that 2000 yrs before d quran was written.I believe God has more to reveal to men so he wont repeat events already taken care of by historians.

The quran wrote about events that took place over generations yet it was written by a single writer.Please let us call a spade by its true name .The only source in my own understanding that can contest with the bible account are the accounts of historians who lived around that time with a contradictory position if any.  If there are none as it is as of today , TERAH WAS THE FATHER OF ABHRAHAM.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Halleluyah, I have been "converted" once again, please show me where in the entire New testament did anybody ever call Jesus Immanuel, show me if ye are truthful, if you can not show does it prove the heavy delusion you and your Christian brethren live under? indeed the bible is a "painful" book, with good stories, horror stories, molest stories and even incestrous stories laying side by side, no wonder the practice of Inbreeding is alarmingly high in the valleys of Christendom. Indeed i takes guts and courage to survive the evils tales in the bible, flee if you must, flee if your heart is soft, flee if your soul is weak and please flee the filt stained bible.

0
Avatar
Newbie

^^^^^^^^^^^ in islam if you see a person claiming high scholarship, he is full of it.

owe ni mo pa fun e yen, if you are truly yoruba, you will know it.

if you come on islamic section, lagosboy who i recommend will say that he knows nothing. he will not be showing off. we have a thread warning about showing off right now.

come over and stop being a local hero among the christians and anti religion groups.

0
Avatar
Newbie

^^^  So you do not understand Fusat, thank you.  I know that if you did you would not waste time to confirm it and even give us demonstration here.  So here you are prancing around over a book that you did not read, all you've read are translations and all you know is what others have told you about it. 

(after laughing in mongolian I p'ose in korean)

p'ose is hiss in abule english.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@pastoraio; « #26 on: Today at 05:37:06 AM »

[Quote]How many people here have actually read the koran in it's original language. How many of you CAN read the koran in it's original arabic. ie. Fusat. Who can claim to understand fusat? Are you all not on translations?

I laugh in mongolian.[/Quote]your mongolian laugh is inferior to your abule language laugh. now if you can do that that will be something; your trademark and we should bottle it and sell it to those who think you are the flavor of the week.

unfortunately for your ignorant mind, Quran is very easy to learn and read and memorize. suratul Fatiha is called the often repeated among other names.

the more you read the Quran, often, the easier it is on the tongue and the greater the ability to remember. it shows how little you know. may God expand your vista.

many on naraland read Quran in Fusat, daily apart from what they read in the 5 salat. you need to keep your ignorance in your circle. and whenever you are man enough to get off your high horse of nothingness, come to islamic session; Allah Will turn your heart to understanding.

there are people like lagosboy, and others who will be the carrier of the work of dawah to you. you will allowed to ask any and all questions.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Christians should believe the biblical account always. If there's any other book that contradicts the Bible, we know that book is wrong.

My advice to Muslims also is to stay clear of the Bible. It doesn't agree with their faith at all, even the Old Testament:

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

The Bible is a painful book to read for someone who is not a Christian. Stay clear of it unless you want to know the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

Hallelujah!

0
Avatar
Newbie

How many people here have actually read the koran in it's original language. How many of you CAN read the koran in it's original arabic. ie. Fusat. Who can claim to understand fusat? Are you all not on translations?

I laugh in mongolian.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@Lagosshia; « #23 on: Yesterday at 09:53:47 PM »

[Quote]we muslims should be careful in responding to missionary propaganda and make sure that we understand our religion first and very well.

the missionary is asking who is Abraham's father:Azar (Quran) or Terah (bible)?

the missionary does not know that Azar mentioned in the Quran is not the biological father of Abraham.the word used in the Quran to describe Azar can also be interpreted as "guardian" of Abraham.

this is actually a very contentious issue because Shia-Muslims in particular believe that no prophet is born out of the loin of a kaffir.all prophets from Adam were born out of believing biological fathers.this also applies to the imams starting with Imam Ali (as).sunnis hold that Abu Talib the father of Imam Ali and uncle of the Prophet Muhammad died in disbelief.the shia on the other hand hold that Abu Talib who helped and protected the Prophet at a time Islam and the Prophet were attacked,could not have died in disbelief but rather embraced islam wholeheartedly before his death.

to conclude,Azar was not the father of Abraham but his guardian who was an unbeliever.

you can further read about these issues in length,here:

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/8.html

and here in the second sub-topic:

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/17.htm[/Quote]which one of the two is more of the responsibility of a father; his father or his son? it is also known that Adam [as] had no father. so was Jesus [as]. now of those who had fathers, who was the father of Lut [as], a nephew of Ibrahim [as]? tell me his father's name and provide us with his religion, though you disagree with the several Quranic verses that used Abati and Aba for the person who Ibrahim addressed, to the father of Ibrahim, but will not disagree with how the children of Yaquub [as] addressed their father, and how Yusuf [as] addressed his father telling him about his dream and when they finally prostrated their faces to him.

oh. and Nuh [as] had a disbeliever for a son. so was a disbeliever for a wife, too. and it didn't stop there; so was Lut. and you never stop saying Muhammad [as] married hypocrites and surrounded himself with many [ra]. hypocrisy is worse than outright disbelief, you know.

@seyibrown (f); « #24 on: Yesterday at 11:16:08 PM »

[Quote]Quote from: albadry on Yesterday at 06:02:52 AM

I'm not sure if you read my reply at all. I do not appreciate your mockery also because I did not mock your beliefs.

The Quran does not reveal the name of Abraham's father, but it reveals that the idol maker in question here (Azar) was not his father. The biblical name Terah could be his name, but it was not revealed in the Quran hence why I could not comment.

My post was not directed mainly at your post! My post takes in to account several posits by Sweetnecta, Olabowale, vedaxcool (and co) of unfounded allegations about the Bible having been corrupted. They wield the Bible to support fallacious claims when it suits them, and then they put the Bible down as being corrupt THE REST of the time! No offence was intended![/Quote]since when did you begin to eliminate the verse from Jeremiah that talks about the swift pen of the scribes from the Bible? i think when you began the importation of Trinity. right? and no muslim, including me use the bible to support the Quran, but the other way around; after all we accept God being the Sole Lord Whose Proper Name is Allah. do you agree with this and does your Bible accepts it? should i accept what the Bible says when Quran which is the book of my sole belief rejects?

[Quote]It's nice to have you join NL, and I look forward to more educating posts from you! Your posts so far already tell me that you will stand out as an one who has an indepth knowledge of Islam and is able to contribute intelligently to topics in this section! Welcome once again! Smiley Be warned: The religious section of NL suffereth 'violence', and the 'violent' take it by force! Grin Grin Bros, Alagbara lo n duro nibi o! Grin ( and by violence here, I mean passion for or against God and his commandments)! God bless you!

As a welcoming present, I will one of these days ask you to educate us on the concept of 'AL-TAQIYAH' , its importance in Islam, and its relevance in interaction with - and particularly in explaining Islam to - non-muslims! Again, the God of all wisdom bless you![/Quote]if this is your present, then your heart must be sincere because you have put forward a deceitful method. by the way, a friend sad to me today that Muhammad [as] was a christian before they introduced trinity, his reason for leaving christianity. i laughed so hard that the man got annoyed. i didn't tell the dude that with such passion that Muhammad [as] stay the course preaching Islam and eliminating any and all gods, i wonder what brand of christianity that was being practiced that he was a member of? christians with their games.

0
Avatar
Newbie

we muslims should be careful in responding to missionary propaganda and make sure that we understand our religion first and very well.

the missionary is asking who is Abraham's father:Azar (Quran) or Terah (bible)?

the missionary does not know that Azar mentioned in the Quran is not the biological father of Abraham.the word used in the Quran to describe Azar can also be interpreted as "guardian" of Abraham.

this is actually a very contentious issue because Shia-Muslims in particular believe that no prophet is born out of the loin of a kaffir.all prophets from Adam were born out of believing biological fathers.this also applies to the imams starting with Imam Ali (as).sunnis hold that Abu Talib the father of Imam Ali and uncle of the Prophet Muhammad died in disbelief.the shia on the other hand hold that Abu Talib who helped and protected the Prophet at a time Islam and the Prophet were attacked,could not have died in disbelief but rather embraced islam wholeheartedly before his death.

to conclude,Azar was not the father of Abraham but his guardian who was an unbeliever.

you can further read about these issues in length,here:

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/8.html

and here in the second sub-topic:

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/17.htm

0
Avatar
Newbie

^^^^^^^^^^^^ my brother, as ssalaamualaykum wa rahmatUllah.

[Quote]« #21 on: Today at 01:06:43 PM »

Dear sweetnecta, I appreciate your quotations from the Quran, but I received my knowledge from a well known authority, not a "deviant sect". My authority comes from the noble Azhar in Egypt.[/Quote]this 'noble Azhar in Egypt' is inferior to Quran as the Absolute Authority.

[Quote]I will provide you a counter argument by referring you to Surat Albaqaraa in the holy Quran (chapter 2, verse 133) where Allah Almighty says:

Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)."[/Quote]there is no 'of' before Ibrahim [as] to indicate the father of Ibrahim was a believer. rather, the verse starts of mentioning paternal believers of the children of Yaquub [as] to Yaquub their father who asked them to confirm to him, as a form of 'oath taking' who they will worship; they started off with Ibrahim [who is the father of faith. not the son of the father of faith;

the sons of the father of faith were Ismail, Isiaqa], and they immediately mention their father's Uncle; Ismail as a man worshiping his own father Ibrahim before they mentioned his younger brother, Isiaq who was their grandfather. the mentioning of Ismail in this position to me points to many things which kill the popular opinion of the jews and christians contradicting ther own books; toral of Moses [as] and the bible, since injil/gospel was quite on Ismail [as].

we can deduce that Ishmael was well known to his grand nephews, either physically or by words of mouth. what they know of his disqualified him from being a vagabonds, a wild Bottom which the bible had predicted. note that they did not mention their uncle, their father's older brother. in other words, what they know of Ishmael were that he was believer, not different in faith from great grandfather, and grandfather who he was mentioned in sandwiching position.

[Quote]Note that the mention of "thy fathers" include Isma'il here, when Isma'il peace be upon him is clearly not their father or the father of Jacob. The Arabic in here clearly demonstrates the ability to use the term "father" to someone who is not a biological father. In fact, the prophet peace and blessings be upon him used the term "father" to describe his uncle Abu Talib. Your references to Abb and Amm are correct, and they are the commonly used words. However, in the context of Islamic studies, we do not take our explanations from the "common language", as you know the Quran has much deeper meanings, and so our scholars extract these meanings by having a more complete picture of our religion, not just taking the literal translation.[/Quote]scholarship in Islam is foremost based on Quran, then the supplementary authentic Sunnah and Hadith since they are means of knowing what the full meaning of Quran.

if your argument supporting your position as uncle of Ibrahim instead of father, is what the prophet [as] said of abi talib, you must also know that in the context of islamic studies, which Quran is the Highest material of that islamic studies, we can not water down what Quran says by taking our explanation to create doubts from the common language by which the prophet might have called Abi Talib father, while we know that late Abdullah was his [as] father, and we do not have any other person we can possibly call the father of Ibrahim, except what the Quran says.

i want you to pay attention to those men that can't be married by a potential bride; grandfather is not mentioned, but we assume he is one of them.

but father and uncle who are. but in above relationship of Ibrahim with the children of Yaquub in the matter of religion; he was not their father, or their grandfather, but their great grandfather. we will see that they would have described Ismail as grand uncle, and Isiaqa as grandfather. rather they called them all fathers as part of ascendants in monotheistic worshipers.

[Quote]I do agree with you that there are historical scholars who have taken your stance on the matter - they are not the majority, but they are more popular these days thanks to the financial backing of Saudi Arabia and the sect they promote.[/Quote]if i have to agree with anyone, it is easier when the matter to agree with is direct and obvious. No one should say that a prophet cant come from a family or sired by a disbeliever. Sayyidina Lut [as] was a nephew of Ibrahim. we can't possibly say that Lut's father was a believer who refused to migrate from the community of idolaters, even though his brother left and was followed by his own son. we can't say that prophets can't produce disbelievers ether. Noah [as] produced a disbeliever. imagine the horde of disbeliever in the children of Israel, today?

0
Avatar
Newbie

Dear sweetnecta, I appreciate your quotations from the Quran, but I received my knowledge from a well known authority, not a "deviant sect". My authority comes from the noble Azhar in Egypt.

I will provide you a counter argument by referring you to Surat Albaqaraa in the holy Quran (chapter 2, verse 133) where Allah almight says:

Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)."

Note that the mention of "thy fathers" include Isma'il here, when Isma'il peace be upon him is clearly not their father or the father of Jacob. The Arabic in here clearly demonstrates the ability to use the term "father" to someone who is not a biological father. In fact, the prophet peace and blessings be upon him used the term "father" to describe his uncle Abu Talib. Your references to Abb and Amm are correct, and they are the commonly used words. However, in the context of Islamic studies, we do not take our explanations from the "common language", as you know the Quran has much deeper meanings, and so our scholars extract these meanings by having a more complete picture of our religion, not just taking the literal translation.

I do agree with you that there are historical scholars who have taken your stance on the matter - they are not the majority, but they are more popular these days thanks to the financial backing of Saudi Arabia and the sect they promote.

Anyway, there is not much benefit in us arguing over this, as the name of Ibrahim's father and whether or not Azar was the father does not really gain us much benefit in our religion. But I just wanted to shed a different light to the discussion here.

God knows best.

0
Avatar
Newbie

I'm not sure if you read my reply at all. I do not appreciate your mockery also because I did not mock your beliefs.

The Quran does not reveal the name of Abraham's father, but it reveals that the idol maker in question here (Azar) was not his father. The biblical name Terah could be his name, but it was not revealed in the Quran hence why I could not comment.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Came across this while doing a search, and thought I'd chip in 2 cents from an Islamic background.

The mention of the name Azar in the Quran does not refer to the father of Ibrahim (Abraham), but a literal translation of the Quran, with a lack of understanding of the depth of the Arabic language used in the Quran, as well as overall knowledge of the religion of Islam, results in people concluding so.

The correct Islamic derivation states that Azar is an uncle of Ibrahim (Abraham) and that his biological father is a believer. The name of the father is not recorded.

The use of the word "father" in Arabic does not refer to the biological father here, as the name was explicitly mentioned after the word father - which means this is referring to an uncle of some sort. If he was the father, then the Quran would always say "Ibrahim's father", but it highlighted out the name in one instance (Ibrahim's father Azar) to give us the conclusion that Azar, the idol maker, is not Ibrahim's bioligical father. Also, prophetic biography (hadith) confirms that the lineage of the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) is pure, and therefore there could not have been any non-believers in the family chain that gave birth to him. From Adam to his father, Abdullah, the family line worships only 1 God - the true creator.

As to whether or not the biblical name is correct - that I cannot comment on as the correctness of these texts is not verified from my point of view (although we Muslims believe in the text that was revealed to Jesus and Moses, peace and blessings be upon them both, we know that the current version of the text is not what it was when it was first revealed).

Hope you find this info helpful.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Im Christian, Yet I wont pressure people to convert to my religion. I like to think humanity has come to the realization that people will always have different beliefs and opinions. Gandhi said"There are as many religions as their are people." That pretty much sums it up. This blog is old, but I was searching online for my world religions class, In my textbook there is a verse I am to learn about. It is from a islamic reading,

"Remember when Abraham said to his father, Azar, 'How can you take idols as gods? I see that you and your people have clearly gone astray.'"

So I'm concluding that there is no definite "father", Everything is passed down and it comes down to wihch religion you choose to believe. I choose to believe Islam, or else I will fail my Final tomorrow.

Anywho, felt the need to post this.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Adam Brody, Thats not me cursing you. It is the Natural Curse brought on the whole of mankind through your namesake (ADAM) by disobedience to God in the GARDEN OF EDEN.

The Truth is that until your surrender your life to Christ, in this world you'll not have peace. Thats probably why u jump around almost all the topics in Nairaland, trying to propagate ur own brand of religion (Atheism) which admits the existence of God anyway, it shows that there is a vacuum in your life which can only be filled by Jesus.

Until you surrender your life to Christ you'll continue to toil and labour with no fruits to show for it (this is what the scripture says). The truth is that there is no other way to avert the curse which came upon mankind but thru Jesus Christ. For Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Your intelligence, knowledge, human effort etc cannot avert the curse of the law.

To avert the curse of the law , Repent! I assure you the Lord is always ready to forgive you and have mercy on you. If you choose not to repent, that is your choice, but be ready to pay the price. Which is to be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone for eternity after the great judgement.

The Holy Spirit will continue to minister to your heart and convict you of your Sin. May you receive Christ very soon.

Mind you I already have a very good job, well paying and with total peace. More money than I could spend in a lifetime, all through the help of our Lord Jesus Christ. My only desire is to reach out to lost souls and the less privileged.

May God have mercy on you.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Adam Brody , I've seen some of your other posts and it's obvious that you have a problem with Jesus. Now "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor. 4:3-4).

The only message for you now is a message of salvation. For God So loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Surrender your life to Christ.

Allah (Not same as Jehovah) cannot save you, Mohammed cannot Save you only Jesus can Save you, because He is the only way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Him. He Loves you and wants you saved.

I declare today that your heart will not know peace and you will not experience peace until you surrender to Jesus, in the Mighty Name of Jesus. May God have mercy on you and SAVE YOU before you physically die, that you may not have your place in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Give your life to him today and he will give you rest. Give your life to him and He will come to dwell with you and open your eyes to receive revelation knowledge on His Word.

He has a plan and purpose for you, but you'll continue to struggle until your connect to His perfect will for your life which includes your salvation.

0
Avatar
Newbie

bla bla bla no single evidence at all . . . alquran must be right simply because its Allah's book eh? why havent we found anything to support the existence of an Azar?

0
Avatar
Newbie

I guess that Davidylan forgot that Ibrahim was not a Jew (a recent name for the children of israel), nor an israelite (the original collective name for the nations of people of the children of israel; jacob). Ibrahim was not a hebrew (if thats what the people of Jerusalem's of the land of palestines where during the period that he lived there), but a mesopotamian; a cultured people of the city of Ur from the modern day Iraq.

We should note that the Hebrew, the Israelite or the the Jew, none can lay claim on the truth about the name of the father of Ibrahim. His father was an idol worshipper. He did not emigrate with him, so everyone, Jews and christians are wrong about the name, but Allah by His Book, the AlQur'aan is correct. Note that Islam says Allah dictates Qur'an to Muhammad (AS) through malaika Jibril. And it was written down and memorized by the community, while Muhammad was alive.

But the Bible, OT and NT was claimed by the Jews or is it the claim of the Christians alone, that it the holy ghost that inspired the writers, to write them down, after many period of after the fact. And we see that the holy ghost have done a poor job of inspiring the writers to many different writings of the same Book.

0
Avatar
Newbie

ask the people of Iraq, David. don't be so emotional. i know that azar is a correct name, compared to your ghost inspired entry. aburo, ma so wipe daddy nso, blah, blah, blah. lol.

0
Avatar
Newbie

My people are well versed in jewish history but completely ignorant about theirs.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Reads the thread and legs it out as fast as his toothpick legs can carry him

0
Avatar
Newbie

Reads the thread and legs it out as fast as his toothpick legs can carry him

0
Avatar
Newbie

this thread doesnt pose a "question" as much as it questions the rationality of the person pretending to pose it.

0
Avatar
Newbie
Your answer
Add image

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.