«Home

Why Are You A Christian?

If you are a Christian, have you ever wondered why you are a Christian? Which of the following best explains why you are a Christian?

1) You were born in a Christian family and have lived all your life in a Christian community

2) You have thoroughly investigated the Christian narrative and found them to be overwhelming true?

3) Following from the "truth of Christian", you are frighten of the supernatural world of demons, devils, satan and you hope being a Christian would convey protection from these forces.

4) Following from the "truth of Christian", you badly want to serve, worship and praise God.

5) Following from the "truth of Christian", you expect "breakthroughs" being a child of God.

6) You are a cultural Christian cuz you admire the Christian tradition/relics/regalia, etc, etc.

Avatar
Newbie
66 answers

OBVIOUS

YOUR POST IS NOT ALWAYS OBVIOUS

SO CLEARER EXPLAINATION NEEDED PLS

0
Avatar
Newbie

you always make my day with your posts.thank you

0
Avatar
Newbie

Christian by birth, born again because:

God showed love towards me when I was in my filthiest time of life. I mocked God and christians but in return God showed love through his son Jesus crucified for me on the cross.

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Rom 5:8

I was sinking but God lifted me up through Jesus. I had no vision, he gave me reason and purpose to live. I was unaware of tomorrow he revealed eternal life to me. His favours are endless,

How to live up to that tag: deep desire to be Christlike, live by the spirit and reject the flesh continuously, do the will of Him

who called you, bear fruit that will last.

blessings

0
Avatar
Newbie

This is an excellent question.  I have often tried to make the distinction between carrying the title of Christian on the head and actually living the christian life.  This is a very important distinction and one that Christ makes himself. 

"How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs that look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of dead people's bones and every kind of impurity.

I know for certain that it is not the professing of christianity that makes one a christian.  On this forum I've been accused of being all sorts from being an atheist (simply for agreeing with evolution) to being a babalawo (for having knowledge of Ifa) etc.  Over the last few weeks I've given some thought to these accusations (I say 'accusations' because they were phrased as accusations).  While I've not being initiated into Ifa so I cannot by any means be called a babalawo there are many precepts found in Ifa that I agree with and would strive to live my life by.  If the aim of Ifa is to achieve Iwa Pele, that is a harmonious state of being, then I share that ambition.  I might go about it differently from the way most Ifa worshippers  go about it but I appreciate the common goal.  Outwardly then I am not a babalawo but inwardly I might even be more aligned to it than the initiates. 

When I read the Tao Teh Ching, I find many precepts that I can apply to my life and take.  Does that make me a Taoist?  Just because I am not wearing the label and going to the group meetings many Taoists might say 'no' I'm not one of them.  But really?  Does it require recognition by A group to become a member of the religion? 

I don't believe that anywhere in the world God leaves himself without a witness such that any discerning person can perceive.  The heavens declare the glory of God.

1 The heavens are telling of the glory of God;

And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.

2 Day to day pours forth speech,

And night to night reveals knowledge.

3 There is no speech, nor are there words;

Their voice is not heard.

4 Their line has gone out through all the earth,

And their utterances to the end of the world.

True knowledge of God is all around us.

My position is that all these tags and labels are highly overrated and are often quite meaningless.  Most christians are christian in nothing but the name, while many others are very christian in everything but the name.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Because my works/good deed alone cannot take me to heaven. Therefore I need Christ (Saviour) in my Life

0
Avatar
Newbie

We Africans must stop allowing ourselves to be broken down. You Christians are broken up into all kinds of silly Splinter groups battling against each other over who's Religion is the right way of life. When you get into Christianity,you have The seventh day Adventist,  the Jehovah's witnesses,The Mormons,The Pentecostals, The Protestants, The Baptists, The Orthodox and the Catholic Church, etc, etc,  And guess what, All of this has been set up to Divide you in mind. And to this point it has worked! Overstand that the power of US Africans coming together Mentally can and will affect the world. But our differences must be put aside for an Agenda that will uplift us all. Not just a select few.

0
Avatar
Newbie

I think every serious christian should ask his/herself the question the poster has asked and do some serious soul searching. are you really practising christianity the way christ taught us or are you following the teachings of the world.

0
Avatar
Newbie

because i'm a follwer of christ and i believe in him

0
Avatar
Newbie

Because my parents born me into it.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Most christians don't know what it means to be true christian, they just go to church and pretend as if they are holier than thou. True christianity taught and preached by our lord Jesus christ is hardly being practised today. What is being practised today is churchianity. http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-148850.0.html

0
Avatar
Newbie

is this why you a christian?i asked you a question that is personal and you are qouting a bible,that means u not following what God said.know him before you worship him not just read and follow

0
Avatar
Newbie

Why we call ourselves Christians?

Because we are Christ like

Act11:26---And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. {with, : or, in the church}

Eph4:17---¶ This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their min

Why Are You A Christian?

Because we are chosen-

Isaiah 43:10- Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. {no, : or, nothing formed of God}

John1:12- But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: {power: or, the right, o

whats are we doing to justify that tag called christians?

1Cor 6:11---And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom5:9---Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

0
Avatar
Newbie

This isn't exactly a Solipsist's mindset, yu do acknowledge others exist also? Your hypothesis on existence are interesting and cannot be easily waved off but the burden of proof lies with you so I term them beliefs.

On a philosophical level as defined by your solipsism belief you meant?

By the way, could you clearly define what your concept of God is and what his/her/its attributes are because it is clear the God you beleive in is not the same one mainstream christianity believes in.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@Bastage

Solipsism is quite weird and I doubt you truly beleive it yourself, it doesn't seem to be a very pragmatic philosophy and has already closed any avenue for reconsideration of your beliefs. It is too self centered for my liking. In the spirit of self preservation I would rather be close to an hypocrite like Davidylan than you (I know I would be safe if I pay lip service to his delusions but I could never feel safe near you since your philosophy denies even my very existence).

But you do owe it to us (the make belief creations of your thoughts) to prove the validity of Solipsism.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@ image123

You can stick your judgement up your Bottom.

Personally, if I am invited into Heaven and I run into any blind drones like you, I'm going to ask The Man to send me downstairs.

Either way, Hell would be being stuck listening to your crap for eternity.

0
Avatar
Newbie

i at least know the history of the bible, how it was put together by people voting on what they decided to call the word of god and what they decided not to call the word of god. i also know that most of the alleged authors of the bible NEVER wrote any thing in the bible and i know that there was no bible until after about 350years after the death of jesus. the gospels were written at least 40-90years after the alleged events the were narrating, by non eye witness. paul letters were written before about 20 years before the first gospel and all the gospels were written based on pauls reflection and defination of who jesus was, the jesus he NEVER meet in person.

most of the epistels were second centuary forgeries who were written by very educated greek speaking christians not the illetrate disciples of jesus who was just an ordinary person that was later turned into a deity by paul and his cronies. by the way if the bible were divinely inspired, and expected to be believed by reasonable people, you would certainly expect it to be in line with what you learn through scientific methodinstead all you have is faith(delusion) and no evidence for any of its assertions at all. let me say this again ,the case for christianity is only logical and reasonable to the person who has faith (based on NO facts) that everything about it is true.

0
Avatar
Newbie

O my gads! Almost ignited armageddon. Advice is to cringe as I await the reply of the others. The presence of Christ truly brings out the antichrist vent in atheists. Mazaje's so full of questions and confusions. The reason why Jesus is the way is because He is the way. Now before that throws you off the chair, let me add that true followers of Christ have KNOWN Christ. They've experienced the new life. Its a definite experience and change. Others around have seen a real transformation as to agree that this one has received something (in this case Jesus).

I'm not against knowledge. Its just that you have the wrong knowledge. You remind of sometime ago when I was to write an exam. There was this mate who wasn't reading with us, who said his brain was full. He went on to fail although his brain was full. Thats why I'm telling you not to be too full of yourself and of 'knowledge'. What you know and you're so full of may not even be part of the syllabus. If you'll humble yourself and give room/space for real knowledge, you'll be saved from the wrath to come. The serpent I'm alluding to is the Devil who has stung men with sin. Your Bible knowledge is so poor, yet you try to force your views about it on others. You can read Matthew 5v3 and more if perhaps it would give you some tranquility.

@chrisbenogor

Are you a clown or a comedian? Your post was very funny.

0
Avatar
Newbie

O my gads! Almost ignited armageddon. Advice is to cringe as I await the reply of the others. The presence of Christ truly brings out the antichrist vent in atheists. Mazaje's so full of questions and confusions. The reason why Jesus is the way is because He is the way. Now before that throws you off the chair, let me add that true followers of Christ have KNOWN Christ. They've experienced the new life. Its a definite experience and change. Others around have seen a real transformation as to agree that this one has received something (in this case Jesus).

I'm not against knowledge. Its just that you have the wrong knowledge. You remind of sometime ago when I was to write an exam. There was this mate who wasn't reading with us, who said his brain was full. He went on to fail although his brain was full. Thats why I'm telling you not to be too full of yourself and of 'knowledge'. What you know and you're so full of may not even be part of the syllabus. If you'll humble yourself and give room/space for real knowledge, you'll be saved from the wrath to come. The serpent I'm alluding to is the Devil who has stung men with sin. Your Bible knowledge is so poor, yet you try to force your views about it on others. You can read Matthew 5v3 and more if perhaps it would give you some tranquility.

@chrisbenogor

Are you a clown or a comedian? Your post was very funny.

0
Avatar
Newbie

When will people stop being so full of themselves? The requirement for life is that if any man thirst, let him come and drink FREELY. Salvation is so free. Humble yourself Chrisbenogor, Mazaje, Bindex, Huxley, Bastage, Duduspace and others.

John 3v14,15

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up. That whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Herein lies the basis for being a Christian. In there is why we all must be christians. Judgement is coming on the human race. The human race has being, as it were, bitten by the serpent and set to perish. But Jesus Messiah has come to save us ALL. What we should all do is to look and live, look to Jesus lifted up on the cross and live.

Complaining about why we were allowed to be bitten, and postulating theories and laws will not save us from our present predicament. What will save us is to look up and live. Its not difficult to look up. It doesn't cost anything. Don't be fooled by pride. How is it that the cure is simply to look up and someone is too proud to look up, and would rather die angry with God and with Moses! Beats me. Don't be full of yourself and knowledge. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God.

0
Avatar
Newbie

the case for christianity is only logical and reasonable to the person who has faith (based on NO facts) that everything about it is true. . . . . . .

0
Avatar
Newbie

If Sollipsism is the position you hold, it is for you to prove that it is true. It cannot be true by default. I might as well come up with any other crackpot theory and ask you to prove it wrong. There is an infinitude of such crackpot theories and the fact that hardly anyone goes about proving them wrong does not mean that they are right by default.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Shallow, Huxley. Very shallow.

You can't prove that evolution is "outside yourself". For all you know it is a theory that you created and then forgot about as you play a computer game in a simulated world. There is nothing to stop you from believing that you are your own god and that everything is a result of the game you are playing - you merely don't remember because you programmed the game so that you don't remember. If you created your perceived material it's hardly "outside yourself" is it.

I can believe in whatever I want to. I can claim any of those beliefs to be knowledge. They are as interchangeable as I want them to be. That is the essence of solipsism. That belief and knowledge may not always hold true in the material world but as the material world cannot be proven to exist, they cannot be proven to be wrong.

To put it another way:

I believe in a material world.

I believe human beings exist.

I believe the scientific evidence.

I believe in evolution.

All are beliefs. None can be said to be truths unless I choose them to be so as I am the master of my own truths (just as you are with yours).

You still haven't answered my challenge.

Prove to me that you exist.

0
Avatar
Newbie

You haven't read a word of the link or anything I've written have you?

How can I say that evolution is true when I can't even prove that anything other than myself exists?

Everything is a belief.

Prove to me that you exist, Huxley.

To put it simply - you can't.

0
Avatar
Newbie

OK, I shall ignore the insults and go straight to the substance or non-substance in this case.  This is the definition of solipsism from the Wikipedia link you provided:

Solipsism is the philosophical idea that "My mind is the only thing that I know exists." Solipsism is an epistemological or ontological position that knowledge of anything outside the mind is unjustified. The external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist. In the history of philosophy, solipsism has served as a skeptical hypothesis.

Some question:

1) To what extend is this generally and universally accepted and truly representing the state of reality?

2)  Solipsism hold that common-sense objects like cars, chairs, goats  cannot be known to exists?  Do you agree with this position?

3)  If you do, then you must also agree that ALL my posts on NL are actually your posts, to the extent that they exist.  Or they do not actually exist?

0
Avatar
Newbie

Personally I think a huge percentage of people are religious because of the after life belief.

I admire your position bastage but no matter how I look at it the Christian God is either very very cruel or does not exist.

If a God exists on the other hand why even bother, it will be like a goat trying to learn astrophysics.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Are you being silly on purpose or are you just incredibly shallow?

You emboldened and questioned my statement: "On a philosophical level there is no difference between belief and knowledge."

Solipsism explains that everything is a belief except for I think therefore I am. Therefore all knowledge except for I think therefore I am is a belief. Therefore there is no difference between belief and knowledge on a philosophical level.

0
Avatar
Newbie

How is this [solipsism] relevant to this discussion?

0
Avatar
Newbie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

0
Avatar
Newbie

What do you mean by "material" level and how is that different from a "philosophical" level? Are you suggesting that the definition I gave is a "material" definition?

0
Avatar
Newbie

Huxley.

Before you start burbling more irrelevant drivel again, read my words.

On a "philosophical" level. Not on a "material" level.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Any epistemologist would be mortified to read this - that tthere is no difference between belief and knowledge. Let me illustrate this with a little common day example;

Supposing, you were asked by a friend or colleague the following question; When was the first moon-landing? And you gave one of the following responses:

1) I belief it was in 1973.

2) I know it was in 1973.

Which of the above attempts to convey sure and certain knowledge? Which attempts to convey a conjecture?

On a simplistic level, knowledge is generally defined as "true and justified belief". It is NOT just any old belief, it MUST be TRUE and JUSTIFIED, to be considered as knowledge. I know there are other more subtle and sophisticated definitions, but none of them equates belief and knowledge. And further, there are major issues about how a belief is justified, a subject about whichh there are no universally agreed methodologies.

0
Avatar
Newbie

My guy, I do not dispute evolution. But I look at it through eyes that judge on the material realism that I exist in. To me, evolution makes sense. Creationism is a literal definition of the Bible that has no foundation in logic.

Within the reality that we exist in we have choices to make. Not always free choices but choices none the less. I am guided to believe that the form in which I exist was created by evolution. But as I mentioned earlier, I try to look beyond the veil. To me, evolution or creationism are just distractions. The real me (and you) are not bound by their physical meanings. The theories of creationism and evolution are only things used to describe our physical being. We exist beyond them.

I hear you. Bear in mind though that an individual can also be a rabble if he is confused by the many voices in his heart. Christian churches are just the same but on a larger scale if you don't try to exert control over yourself and let them overwhelm you. Any answer lies with you and you alone. Personally, I see the Bible as the most interesting book ever written. I've stated time and time again that one has to study the context in which it was written to understand it though. But even then, it's deeper message can only be defined by you and you alone.

On a philosophical level there is no difference between belief and knowledge. Again, you only have yourself to judge as the measurement. If you believe in your own judgement then you have a knowledge.

What is an unbounded number if it is not infinite? Are you saying that an unbounded number has an end? To me, the number is like Pi - it goes on forever. We know Pi exists and that it is infinite so why can we not apply that same idea to our beliefs?

0
Avatar
Newbie

I was brought up in the Christian faith, and while I have the freewill to change my religion, I have choosen not to. I am a Christian because the Founder, Jesus Christ is Alive and lives forever. The founders of other religion are dead. So, why would I serve a dead person when the Founder of Christianity is Living? I will rather serve a Living God over a dead mortal.

Does this answer your question?

0
Avatar
Newbie

@duduspace and co.

You're getting it all wrong. David has explained it to you but I'll just add this to help. What you're missing about John6v44 and the other references is that God has done His part. He's done what He needs to do about your and my salvation. All you need to do is respond.

'No one can come to me except the Father draw him', yes. The question should be when will that be? Your thought is that maybe He'll draw this one and not draw the other one. But what does the Bible say? What does Jesus say? The Bible says we have already been DRAWN. He has drawn all men, everybody. Thats what I quoted in John12v32.

And I(Jesus), if I be lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL men UNTO me.

This he said, signifying what death he should die.

The Bible, the same John's gospel says He'll draw all men when Jesus was lifted up i.e crucified. Jesus has been crucified, all men have been drawn. Its now up to every individual to 'draw nigh' as Davidylan quoted.

You know, the beautiful thing about the Bible is that it is complete. Thats the way you can benefit from it, in its complete form. Picking and choosing one phrase, verse or book will likely confuse and condemn you. The Bible verses are best understood in the light of the whole scriptures. You're not to hold one and run while denying the other part(s). The scripture is replete with passages that tell everyone to come and receive Christ freely. You cant hold 1or2 passages as evidence and true and be in denial of the cloud of evidence that suggest otherwise. WHOSOEVER will, let him come.

One thing that must be said though is that we all come on God's terms. We come by grace. We become saved, christians, followers of God by grace, not by our good works. That comes later. You don't put the cart before the horse. Our works and piety is not what brings us to Jesus, its the grace, mercy of God. No man can come to me, except the Father draw him. The Father has drawn. The grace of God has appeared to ALL men. Thats what runs all through the new testament. That grace is available for you. Jesus can save the worst and the best of sinners. All you need to do is believe it. Whosoever believes in Jesus has eternal, everlasting life.

0
Avatar
Newbie

I think I get your point and I do respect your position because it is obviously one that has proceeded from deep thought, goes to show that there is a lot that lies beneath initially simple statements.

Am I then right in saying that God in this instance could be the evolutionary process that produced man (if evolution turns out to be true), the intelligence that brought about creation (if creation turns out to be true) or any other myriad of possibilities our puny minds cannot even begin to comprehend?

I agree searching would be a more comforting word, akin to seeing the glass half full rather than half empty.

Also, I don't think Religion is a waste of time I only beleive it should be seen for what it is i.e. speculation at its best and outright lies at its worst (which seems to be norm). There is a very big difference between "I think God exists" or "I believe God's existence is a possibility" and "I know God exists and this is what he says".

0
Avatar
Newbie

I will try to answer some of your questions.

We live in a concept of reality. Atheists believe that it is all there is. I don't see any logical reason for it being all there is.

Comprehension is a strong word. One can only believe that one comprehends.

Again, I would point out that the material world is a concept of reality. Study the philospopher Descartes. you will see his famous words "I think, therefore I am". What he means by this is that the only thing he can be utterly sure of is that he (and only he) exists. Everything else is a result of material sensory input. There is no way that he can be certain of anything excpet for the fact that he (and only he) exists. Personally, I think, therefore I am, but to me it is logical that I was created or am part of something else. Therefore, the only two certainties are myself and that something else - my God.

Yes, we define our Gods. But we also let religion do that for us too. I personally choose Christianity simply because I like the message. But that's not to say that religion is just a waste of time. We could speculate that your whole reality is the creation of your god, therefore everything in it is put there to lead you forward - including religion.

I wouldn't say groping. "Searching" would be a better word. I look upon it as trying to see what lies beyond the veil.

To a certain extent I would say as my knowledge evolves, so my view of my God evolves. It doesn't mean that I'm making it all up though. I try to base my beliefs in a founding of logic and don't tend to just jump in head first.

The one thing that probably makes me different though, is that I could choose to give my God up. I don't worship because I have to. I worship because I want to. I worship simply because I believe, that just like me, God is.

0
Avatar
Newbie

You can as well add George Bush to the list too, he believes he is was fighting a holy war for his god in Iraq.

0
Avatar
Newbie

The danger to us aside, a lie is still a lie no matter how you dress it up.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Point of correction, the verse itself is not confusing or disturbing in anyway rather it is the fact that most of the biblical verses quoted by christians are usually twisted as they seem fit, considered literal in some instances and viewed as metaphors in others. It is so bad atimes that you wonder who lies more in christians and lawyers.

Now that you have more clearly explained your initial statement, is it safe for me then to assume that the response you intended to make to Huxley's original question is simply that you are a christian because god called you and you answered him right?

0
Avatar
Newbie

Interesting ideas Bastage, I do wonder what people in psychiatrist or psychology would have to say about them.

I just have the following to say about the sections I've made bold.

1. According to you God is beyond reality right? but we live in reality how then can one relate to something that is beyond reality using reality based concepts like prayer e.t.c.

2. How can your reality based mind really comprehend a God beyond reality? how then can anyone claim to be speaking for such a God beyond reality? or that anything such a god does is of any significance in reality

3. If god is beyond reality, why bother with him when we live in reality? 

4. In a way, can there ever be a single definition/classification of something beyond reality? or in other words doesn't each person/society therefore define this esoteric being in his/their own way i.e. creating their own gods?

5. Can't we all just face up to the truth that we are all groping in the dark here?

I don't think Huxley or anyone can exhaust the possible reasons why people may believe in god and your reasoning (in my opinion) is a bit convoluted since it doesn't reside in reality. I would rather say that you have made up or you are making up your god as you go along and that is not necessarily a bad thing. The difference between lunacy and genius is often a thin line.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Well sorry that God didnt feel inclined to draw you then. Go hit your head on the wall and wait patiently for a sorrowful judgement.

0
Avatar
Newbie

Again you are just going round in a circle. Other verses say other wise. John 6 says no such thing.

Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."

Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills

Joh 6:65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

0
Avatar
Newbie

the only difference here is your own shoddy or crass lack of understanding. James (like other passages) says the onus is on us to accept the sacrifice of the cross, repent of our sins and approach God in humble worship. John 6 however lets us know that it is NOT by ourselves that we are accepted of Him, it is Christ who accepts us to Himself AFTER we have willingly submitted ourselves to Him.

That nonsense is not supported anywhere in the bible . . . perhaps you can show us where you found it.

0
Avatar
Newbie

If you don't see the differenc then its either you are silly, a liar or you haven't read the passages.

The father GRANTS everything ACCORDING to his will. If you like you can draw closer to the father but if he doesn't want or doesn't feel like granting you the chance, you will do it in vain. EVERYTHING depends on the WILL of the father according to the bible. Again I do not believe in all these but pls stop lying for Jesus.

0
Avatar
Newbie

And i can argue that John 6:44 and James 4:8-18 are NOT saying the same thing. YOU only chose to believe that they are saying the same thing. You clearly do not know what the writer of the passage in John had in mind when he wrote that passage.

0
Avatar
Newbie

More ignorance . . . read James 4 again. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

God has ALREADY paid the price for sin . . . but YOU have to do the accepting FIRST. When you draw nigh to God in repentance . . . then He will draw you to Himself.

Verse 8 does not say - God will draw you whether you draw nigh or not . . . you have to move close OF YOUR OWN FREEWILL.

0
Avatar
Newbie

More ignorant arguments . . .

Indeed John 6:44 does say nothing about "humbling ourselves" . . . but that your argument is EXACTLY the problem with ignorant atheists. You build a mountain on one verse forgetting that other verses include several details that John 6:44 could have omitted.

James 4 says ALMOST EXACTLY the same thing John 6:44 was saying and here is how he puts it in clearer detail - 8 D[b]raw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.[/b] Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

All we get here are a bunch of uneducated rabble rousers.

Nowhere in image123's post does he literarily imply that you have to lift your physical body to God. YOU CANT. What John 6:44 and James 4:8-10 are saying is not to physically lift your hands but to approach God in prayer and genuine repentance. Hyperbole is lost on the ignorant.

I think we are more tired of frauds who come here trying to force their own bias into the bible.

0
Avatar
Newbie

You see the problem with apologetics is that you will have to keep adding and subtracting when there is NOTHING to add or subtract.  You said all men have been drawn, but they have to humble themselves? That is not what John 6:44 says, that is what YOU are saying. John 6:44 says something else. There is no where in John 6:44 that says you will have to respond by stretching your hands, legs, nose or ears. I don't care about what the verse says or does not say I am tired of Christians saying what the bible does not say to score non existent points. Then again I know that you will come back and tell me that, that's what the "holy spirit" tells you, if ask tell another "holy spirit" filled Christian to interpret the same passage he will interpert it VERY differently.

I think you don't know what it means to draw a person, when you draw someone to something his opinion or actions does NOT matter at ALL.

0
Avatar
Newbie

@duduspace

you'll not find John6v44 so disturbing or confusing if you're a student of the Word. If you just take the pain to read the book of John complete, you'll find your answers. Its in the same John's gospel that Jesus talks about Searching the scriptures.

John 3:14,15

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be LIFTED UP: that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Note that word 'lifted up' and turn to John 12v32.

And I, if I be LIFTED UP from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

If you're collected enough, you notice that Jesus says He'll draw all men. All men have been drawn, it is left for each individual to humble himself before God and He'll lift you up. His hands are outstretched while it is called Today, if you respond by stretching your own, He'll lift you up. Thats the 'much touted' free-will we're talking about. It is not God's will that any should perish but that all should COME to repentance. It takes your coming before you can be a christian. It takes your FOLLOWING even after coming. Only followers are true christians.

0
Avatar
Newbie

It's not easy to explain but I'll try and give you a general idea.

Everything we choose in this world is not done with freedom as we may think. Everything. We are coerced in some way by our reality.

I believe that God is beyond reality and therefore using a reason based in the material to choose Him is self-defeating. And as the only reasons we have are material then not having a reason is the logical thing to do.

As Huxley has pointed out in his first post, many people choose for those reasons. When they do, I believe that they are not seeing the whole picture, they're letting material yearnings dictate their choice. It's therefore not a free choice.

If you are not able to make a free choice you are choosing for a reason. That reason is for yourself. I don't follow God for myself, to me, that would be self-serving and not really following Him. Therefore, the only reason I can have for following him is no reason thus meaning that I freely choose.

I hope that makes sense.

0
Avatar
Newbie
Your answer
Add image

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.