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Why Did God Create So Many Transitional Organisms That Are Being Found Now?

Why is God's design so wasteful, creating hundreds of separate species for each group, only to let them go extinct.  For instance, of the nearly hundreds of horse species in the fossil record, only one survives to modern times.  The same is true for elephants, hoofed mammals and many many more?   Why is god allowing things that he so "cleverly" created go extinct?    Read here for more

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@Oladeegbu

why do you cut and join my quotes?Why do you do this? You're not doing your honesty any favours

I asked for an alternative to evolution and you gave me a quote from Louis Pasteur without links. You should be aware that at the time Mr Pasteur was making that statement, all scientists including him agreed that an atom is the smallest indivisible part of matter. We all know better today don't we. Creation scientists and 'evolution atheists' have no indisputable answer to the question on the origin of man other than belief and therefore have no moral right to accuse the other of cheating.

If you do not believe evolution is plausible, that's fine by me but you do not need to push debatable stories like dinosaurs living with men down my throat. MY stance is that you and Ken Ham are spreading half truths and dubious stories like Pterodactyls and Brachiosaurus lived with people in the Middle East. Job 40:15 is just describing an animal and it is not documented to be a dinosaur that was only known to man in the 19th century. That is still debatable whether it is a hippo or elephant.

I will close with this, Evolution is a theory man has come up with to try to answer the question on how we came to be here. Since it isn't fool proof, I do not think it is wise to use it as a yardstick to disprove any other theory regarding the origin of man. Also, the bible has a story on how man came to be and I believe that but what I do not believe is people trying to interpret the bible and come up with crazy ideas and paint that as whole truth while it has got some lies in it. Christians should busy themselves with worshipping God and stop racking their heads looking for stories in the bible to back an epiphany they get when mulling over how wrong evolution is.

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I will give you this assignment, go and read Genesis 1:24-25 and Job 40:15-24 and give us your feedback as to when they were created and whether they were observed by men as recorded in the Bible.

To give you a clue of what you might not have thought about check the link below to get an informed view of how dinosaurs lived with men according to the Bible's account, that's if your mind is not already made up on man's fallible ideologies.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/what-happened-to-the-dinosaurs

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You have asked a good question here, and I hope that you still have an open mind to receive the truth.  God has originated all laws while man is only formulating and discovering the laws that God has put in place.

In science you can easily refute a false idea that does not stand up to the laws of nature or scientific laws.  Let us see a couple of ideas that scientific laws can tell us whether they are false or true.

In Mathematics:

(x + y)2= x2+y2

This is false because the law of Mathematics has been violated.  The correct equation will be:

(x + y)2= x2+2.xy + y2

In Chemistry:

NaOH + HCl = NaCl + H3O (This is a false equation because the law of Stoichiometry has been violated.  The correct equation will be:

NaOH + HCl = NaCl + H2O

In Biology:

The statement "Man has evolved from a long process of evolution"

How do we know whether this statement is true or false?  We can know by testing it with the law of nature otherwise called scientific law.  There are at least three realities that we can observe, which are life, information and matter.  Louis Pasteur is the only scientist who has formulated and scientifically discovered the law of life that God originated; that life can only come from life.   All other attempts by evolutionists, including the statement in quote above, have proven to be false.

The father of Microbiology, Louis Pasteur (1822-1895), who was an outstanding scientist and opponent of evolution formulated this law.  Each time you go to the refrigerator and take out a bottle of milk, you should be reminded of the work of the outstanding French scientist, Louis Pasteur.  He discovered Bacteriology, Biochemistry, Sterilization, Immunization etc.  He also proved the scientific law that life came from life, He said that: “Microscopic beings must come into the world from parents similar to themselves”.  This was a kick in the teeth to the evolutionists that have been peddling the fallacy of spontaneous generation and they still teach this in textbooks and schools inspite of the fact that it is unscientific, illogical, irrational and unreasonable. 

Despite all the efforts of the evolutionary scientists, not one observable case of spontaneous generation has ever been found, hence it remains a theory and not a fact.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v14/i1/pasteur.asp

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why are you asking us? Should this question not be posed to you who tell us that evolution was a gradual transitional process?

And how about explaning your horse evolution better to us? What do we do with that long meaningless tree you put up earlier?

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If we are supposed to agree that evolution is a lie. What other scientific method can we use to explain the origin of man, I mean a theory that does not include belief just plain tests and results OR would a scientist just make an assumption that everything written in the bible is fact even if it can't be tested by empirical means and go on from there?

Or should people just get a little humility and say they do not know certain things and would continue to search for the truth till all is complete. Before trying to railroad everyone into agreeing that dinosaurs played with Adam or Neanderthals and Modern Man had a common ancestor.

@olaadegbu

You do not need to spread falsehoods to prove a point. If evolution is a lie, Dawkins pausing for 11 seconds to answer a question is not proof evolution is a lie. http://www.skeptics.com.au/articles/dawkins.htm holds an answer to that question and many books he has written.

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Mr Dawkins is very zealous in trying to prove religion is a fraud and I think writing a book calling the existence of God a delusion is not very bright when your evidence is the theory of evolution and geologic records.

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If there are gaps in the fossil records, such as there are, why is that the case ?

Why are there gaps in the fossil records?

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This is another quote from Professor Dawkins when he said in an interview that evolution has been observed, "its just that it hasn't been observed while it's happening."

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@No2Atheism,

You need to see how the present day apostle of the evolution lie was caught napping in the video link below.

Dr. Richard Dawkins was clueless when asked to "give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase information in the genome?"  Watch him stammering and looking at the ceiling (ai gb'ofa l'anwoke syndrome)

Watch this short video and then read  the background story about it.

http://bsa-ca.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=1

Read all about it here:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/3907.asp#f1

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o

It is just astounding why a sane and thinking person would want to put his "faith" in something that as inherently flawed and increasingly being shown to be false as evolution, and yet the same person would want to claim to be scientific or logical or open-minded. Can't the person see that he/she is throwing away a chance that those already condemned by death would do anything to have a second chance at.

At times i simply don't understand the rationale, it beggars belief,

I think True Christians really have to thank and praise God Almigthy that , "He choose to show mercy to whom he choose to show mercy to" otherwise it would have been a case of this:

"

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

"

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Large Gaps

These quotes from evolutionist scientists are so much for the evidence of the transitional fossils that you are now celebrating. Who is deceiving who?

"There are all sorts of gaps: absence of gradationally intermediate 'transitional' forms between species, but also between larger groups - between, say, families of carnivores, or the orders of mammals. In fact, the higher up the Linnaean hierarchy you look, the fewer transitional forms there seem to be." (Eldredge, Niles, The Monkey Business: A Scientist Looks at Creationism, 1982, p. 65)

"It is as though they [fossils] were just planted there, without any evolutionary history. Needless to say this appearance of sudden planting has delighted creationists. , Both schools of thought (Punctuationists and Gradualists) despise so-called scientific creationists equally, and both agree that the major gaps are real, that they are true imperfections in the fossil record. The only alternative explanation of the sudden appearance of so many complex animal types in the Cambrian era is divine creation and (we) both reject this alternative." (Dawkins, Richard, The Blind Watchmaker, W.W. Norton & Company, New York, 1996, p. 229-230)

"All paleontologists know that the fossil record contains precious little in the way of intermediate forms; transitions between major groups are characteristically abrupt. Gradualists usually extract themselves from this dilemma by invoking the extreme imperfection of the fossil record." (Gould, Stephen J., The Panda's Thumb, 1980, p. 189)

"One of the most surprising negative results of paleontological research in the last century is that such transitional forms seem to be inordinately scarce. In Darwin's time this could perhaps be ascribed with some justification to the incompleteness of the paleontological record and to lack of knowledge, but with the enormous number of fossil species which have been discovered since then, other causes must be found for the almost complete absence of transitional forms." (Brouwer, A., "General Paleontology," [1959], Transl. Kaye R.H., Oliver & Boyd: Edinburgh & London, 1967, p. 162-163)

"[color=#990000]There is no need to apologize any longer for the poverty of the fossil record. In some ways it has become almost unmanageably rich, and discovery is out-pacing integration. The fossil record nevertheless continues to be composed mainly of gaps."[/color] (Neville, George, T., "Fossils in Evolutionary Perspective," Science Progress, vol. 48 January 1960, p. 1-3)

"The record jumps, and all the evidence shows that the record is real: the gaps we see reflect real events in life's history not the artifact of a poor fossil record, The fossil record flatly fails to substantiate this expectation of finely graded change." (Eldredge, N. and Tattersall, I., The Myths of Human Evolution Columbia University Press, 1982, p. 59, 163)

"Gaps between families and taxa of even higher rank could not be so easily explained as the mere artifacts of a poor fossil record." (Eldredge, Niles, Macro-Evolutionary Dynamics: Species, Niches, and Adaptive Peaks, 1989, p. 22)

"The fossil record is much less incomplete than is generally accepted[/color]." (Paul, C.R.C, "The Adequacy of the Fossil Record," 1982, p. 75)

"[color=#000099]Links are missing just where we most fervently desire them, and it is all too probable that many 'links' will continue to be missing." (Jepsen, L. Glenn; Mayr, Ernst; Simpson George Gaylord. Genetics, Paleontology, and Evolution, New York, Athenaeum, 1963, p. 114)

"For over a hundred years paleontologists have recognized the large number of gaps in the fossil record. Creationists make it seem like gaps are a deep, dark secret of paleontology, " (Cracraft, in Awbrey & Thwaites, Evolutionists Confront Creationists", 1984)

"In any case, no real evolutionist, whether gradualist or punctuationist, uses the fossil record as evidence in favour of the theory of evolution as opposed to special creation." (Ridley, Mark, "Who doubts evolution?" "New Scientist", vol. 90, 25 June 1981, p. 831)

"The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualist accounts of evolution." (Gould, Stephen J., 'Is a new and general theory of evolution emerging?' Paleobiology, vol 6(1), January 1980, p. 127)

"The curious thing is that there is a consistency about the fossil gaps; the fossils are missing in all the important places." (Hitching, Francis, The Neck of the Giraffe or Where Darwin Went Wrong, Penguin Books, 1982, p.19)

"If life had evolved into its wondrous profusion of creatures little by little, Dr. Eldredge argues, then one would expect to find fossils of transitional creatures which were a bit like what went before them and a bit like what came after. But no one has yet found any evidence of such transitional creatures. This oddity has been attributed to gaps in the fossil record which gradualists expected to fill when rock strata of the proper age had been found. In the last decade, however, geologists have found rock layers of all divisions of the last 500 million years and no transitional forms were contained in them." (The Guardian Weekly, 26 Nov 1978, vol 119, no 22, p. 1)

"Given that evolution, according to Darwin, was in a continual state of motion, it followed logically that the fossil record should be rife with examples of transitional forms leading from the less to more evolved. , Instead of filling the gaps in the fossil record with so-called missing links, most paleontologists found themselves facing a situation in which there were only gaps in the fossil record, with no evidence of transformational intermediates between documented fossil species." (Schwartz, Jeffrey H., Sudden Origins, 1999, p. 89)

"Despite the bright promise that paleontology provides a means of "seeing" evolution, it has presented some nasty difficulties for evolutionists the most notorious of which is the presence of "gaps" in the fossil record. Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them. The gaps must therefore be a contingent feature of the record." (Kitts, David B., "Paleontology and Evolutionary Theory," Evolution, vol. 28, 1974, p. 467)

"A persistent problem in evolutionary biology has been the absence of intermediate forms in the fossil record. Long term gradual transformations of single lineages are rare and generally involve simple size increase or trivial phenotypic effects. Typically, the record consists of successive ancestor-descendant lineages, morphologically invariant through time and unconnected by intermediates." (Williamson, P.G., Palaeontological Documentation of Speciation in Cenozoic Molluscs from Turkana Basin, 1982, p. 163)

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HUxley, you need to explain yourself well. Are you saying that because there are various species resembling horses in fossil records that evolution must have occurred. Or are you saying that the fact that species go instinct is irrefutable proof that God doesn't exist? Please oga, explain to me what you are trying to say so that I know what I am addressing.

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The Universe is His property huxley.He has full rights to do what He wants with it.Worry instead abou thow you'll account for your time on earth,when you leave this world

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above all things @mantraa, @huxley, since the truth is that its not my job to convince you, infact i am expected to take any ridicule given to me on the chin, so please just know that:

Heaven is real, Hell is real,

This life is just temporary, many people already dead would love this chance that we all have at making heaven, please don't throw it away, it is freely given, take it and run with it.

God Almighty loves you so much he gave His only begotten Son to die for you, so that whosoever believes (you , I or anyone else) would not perish but rather have eternal life.

Peace be unto you, God Almighty loves even if you don't.

Am sorry but this would be last post in response to either @huxley, @mantraa and also @toneyb on any thread on nairaland because i feel my work (to speak the truth as I know it) is done , thank you for the opportunity to do so bye.

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"copy and paste syndrome,  Huh, wow, that is new"

Like i said earlier, you cannot handle the truth.

Face the facts man and 'Deal with the data'

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/horses/horse_evol.html

Saying that Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Paul, and all the other characters in the bible were black is like saying that all the characters in snow white and the seven dwarfs, Jack and the beanstalk, Harry potter and all other fictional stories were black.

Look at the bigger picture.  If you were an Indian Christian in India you would probably be adamant that they were all brown.

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This is probably because the evidence to show the transitional forms of the horse specie exists only in the imagination of desperate scientists. There is no solid proof. Look through all available alleged fossil records of the horse . . . you'd be hard pressed to find 2 that agree with each other.

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Don't you think that that question is best answered by God himself?

Why is that Fart that I farted yesterday not smelling any more? Don't all things have their span?

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Thats because 99% of all the animals that have ever lived on this planet since the dawn of life are now extinct.

Just like 99% of all the religions that have ever existed since the dawn of human consciousness are now extinct.

Our curiosity as humans which got us to where we are today has always asked the question "how did we get here?" and "where did we come from?"

Now that we are finding the answers to those questions, a lot of religious people cannot handle the truth and cling onto the comforting old myths of the bible, just Like a baby clings onto its comforting pacifier.

Its time to grow up and face the facts people.

The truth has been revealed and its not in an old book written thousands of years ago by a bunch of bronze age men with voices in their heads.

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For someone who had the impudence to call other African as being intellectual, you are great at revealing your hypocricy. People like you, the delusional creationist christians have no real data/facts to work with. You and your ilk do not do research, dig out fossils from the ground, publish in academic journals, write academic books, organise and attend academic conferences.

The real scientist who discover the facts about evolution do real research, public in peer-reviewed journals and books, have their work checked by independent experts, organise and attend conferences in paleonotology, molecular biology, etc. They practise science the way their colleagues in physics, chemistry, geology, computer science, etc, etc do. Thus their body of work is there in the university departments, museums, etc, etc, for all to see.

This is the sort of data about horse evolution that the real scientist discover:

And here's the tree, note that the timescale is a bit weird (e.g. the Oligocene is compressed almost to nothing) to keep it from being too long. All the names on the tree are genus names, so recall that each genus encompasses a cluster of closely related species.

The is a brief description of the tree for those who are visually impaired. Hyracotherium is shown giving rise to three lineages. Two lineages quickly go extinct. The third branches many times. There are many branches alive during most times until two million years ago when only the various species of Equus remain. The tree itself is unreadable to those who are visually impaired so skip the tree graphic.

2My Old & New World Equus

\ | /

\ | /

4My Hippidion Equus Stylohipparion

| | Neohipparion Hipparion Cormohipparion

| | Astrohippus | | |

| | Pliohippus ---------------------------

12My Dinohippus Calippus \ | /

| | Pseudhipparion \ | /

| | | |

------------------------------------------- Sinohippus

15My \ | / |

\ | / Megahippus |

17My Merychippus | |

| Anchitherium Hypohippus

| | |

23My Parahippus Anchitherium Archeohippus

| | |

(Kalobatippus?)-----------------------------------------

25My \ | /

\ | /

|

35My |

Miohippus Mesohippus

| |

40My Mesohippus

|

|

|

45My Paleotherium |

| Epihippus

| |

Propalaeotherium | Haplohippus

| | |

50My Pachynolophus | Orohippus

| | |

| | |

------------------------------

\ | /

\ | /

55My Hyracotherium

X. SUMMARY

For many people, the horse family remains the classic example of evolution. As more and more horse fossils have been found, some ideas about horse evolution have changed, but the horse family remains a good example of evolution. In fact, we now have enough fossils of enough species in enough genera to examine subtle details of evolutionary change, such as modes of speciation.

In addition to showing that evolution has occurred, the fossil Equidae also show the following characteristics of evolution:

1.

Evolution does not occur in a straight line toward a goal, like a ladder; rather, evolution is like a branching bush, with no predetermined goal.

Horse species were constantly branching off the "evolutionary tree" and evolving along various unrelated routes. There's no discernable "straight line" of horse evolution. Many horse species were usually present at the same time, with various numbers of toes, adapted to various different diets. In other words, horse evolution had no inherent direction. We only have the impression of straight-line evolution because only one genus happens to still be alive, which deceives some people into thinking that that one genus was somehow the "target" of all the evolution. Instead, that one genus is merely the last surviving branch of a once mighty and sprawling "bush".

The view of equine evolution as a complex bush with many contemporary species has been around for several decades, and is commonly recounted in modern biology and evolution textbooks.

2. There are no truly consistent "trends".

Tracing a line of descent from Hyracotherium to Equus reveals several apparant trends: reduction of toe number, increase in size of cheek teeth, lengthening of the face, increase in body size. But these trends are not seen in all of the horse lines. On the whole, horses got larger, but some horses (Archeohippus, Calippus) then got smaller again. Many recent horses evolved complex facial pits, and then some of their descendants lost them again. Most of the recent (5-10 My) horses were three-toed, not one-toed, and we see a "trend" to one toe only because all the three-toed lines have recently become extinct.

Additionally, these traits do not necessarily evolve together, or at a steady rate. The various morphological characters each evolved in fits and starts, and did not evolve as a suite of characters. For example, throughout the Eocene, the feet changed little, and only the teeth evolved. Throughout the Miocene, both feet and teeth evolved rapidly. Rates of evolution depend on the ecological pressures facing the species.

The "direction" of evolution depends on the ecological challenges facing the individuals of a species and on the variation in that species, not on an inherent "evolutionary trend".

3.

New species can arise through several different evolutionary mechanisms.

Sometimes, new species split off suddenly from their ancestors (e.g., Miohippus from Mesohippus) and then co-existed with those ancestors. Other species came into being through anagenetic transformation of the ancestor, until the ancestor had changed appearance enough to be given a new name (e.g. Equus from Dinohippus). Sometimes only one or a few species arose; sometimes there were long periods of stasis (e.g. Hyracotherium throughout the early Eocene); and sometimes there were enormous bursts of evolution, when new ecological opportunities arose (the merychippine radiation). Again, evolution proceeds according to the ecological pressures facing the individuals of a species and on the variation present within that species. Evolution takes place in the real world, with diverse rates and modes, and cannot be reduced to a single, simple process.

A Question for Creationists: Creationists who wish to deny the evidence of horse evolution should careful consider this: how else can you explain the sequence of horse fossils? Even if creationists insist on ignoring the transitional fossils (many of which have been found), again, how can the unmistakable sequence of these fossils be explained? Did God create Hyracotherium, then kill off Hyracotherium and create some Hyracotherium-Orohippus intermediates, then kill off the intermediates and create Orohippus, then kill off Orohippus and create Epihippus, then allow Epihippus to "microevolve" into Duchesnehippus, then kill off Duchesnehippus and create Mesohippus, then create some Mesohippus-Miohippus intermediates, then create Miohippus, then kill off Mesohippus, etc, each species coincidentally similar to the species that came just before and came just after?

Creationism utterly fails to explain the sequence of known horse fossils from the last 50 million years. That is, without invoking the "God Created Everything To Look Just Like Evolution Happened" Theory.

[And I'm not even mentioning all the other evidence for evolution that is totally independent of the fossil record -- developmental biology, comparative DNA & protein studies, morphological analyses, biogeography, etc. The fossil record, horses included, is only a small part of the story.]

Truly persistent and/or desperate creationists are thus forced into illogical, unjustified attacks of fossil dating methods, or irrelevant and usually flat-out wrong proclamations about a supposed "lack" of "transitional forms". It's sad. To me, the horse fossils tell a magnificent and fascinating story, of millions of animals living out their lives, in their natural world, through millions of years. I am a dedicated horse rider and am very happy that the one-toed grazing Equus survived to the present. Evolution in no way impedes my ability to admire the beauty and nobility of these animals. Instead, it enriches my appreciation and understanding of modern horses and their rich history.

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or wait do you mean the bronze age men that the United states and most western european and isreal is now using their occultic symbols on public and national monuments,

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