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Word Of Faith:what Is Faith?

The word of faith:

let me ask if anyone could explain WHAT HEB 11 6: for without faith it's impossible to please God,

can someone explain by Revelation what this scripture means

Answers must compare scriptures with scriptures!

we have not seen Jesus/God at anytime but believed-if you have confess the lordship JESUS CHRIST and if you are not you don't HAVE business dropping your comment.

i also advise strongly to make that declaration NOW!

YOU MIGHT NOT ALWAYS HAVE THE CHANCE-and we believed in Him,pray to Him and all that.

this must be by FAITH.

WHAT IS FAITH-READ HEB 11:1.

let look into scriptures and see for ourselves what FAITH IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO SENSE KNOWLEDGE HERE!!!!!!!

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52 answers

@commander nuclearboy, howdy?

Infact, you just captured it all in a nutshell for me. I can hardly improve on that, and we have seen more than enough of WOFers to point in that direction.

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WoF - poison

Peddlers and purveyors of poison - Joagbaje, mba emeka, et al

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@viaro

You have written longer ones than these . I'm not really disappointed , I don't really feel you would be able to explain those scriptures . But if I were you , what I don't know , I would say I don't know instead of arguing ignorantly.

Let me ask you a simpler one : Is Jesus God?

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Understanding faith is not much of a great deal, except you don't have a teacher over you, which should be your Pastor

1 Timothy 6:12 says Faith the good faith of faith.

If there is a fight to faith, then there are enemies to faith or hindrances to faith. We are looking at a vital subject where a lack of understanding can hinder your faith.

Romans 10:17 says so then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

A lack of knowledge of God's word is the greatest hindrance to faith. Naturally, if faith comes by hearing the word of God as Romans 10:17 says, then it follows that a lack of hearing and understanding God's word produces a lack of faith.

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@Viaro:

Chairman, my respects as always. Just a point here - I wonder if these people ever consider what they suggest when they keep going "He is the Vine, we the Branches" or "He is the Head, we the body" and make it LITERAL PHYSICAL RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW as in cut off Jesus Head and both He and this body will die!

Is it just me or is there implied the idea that without us, there can be NO God or Jesus? I thought God could raise up the very stones in lieu of anybody. Isn't WOF suggesting God is nothing without this "us"?

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Are you expecting me to write a whole encyclopedia? Look sir, writing exegesis on them is unnecessary, for none of those verses warrants any Christian calling himself or herself "deity" or "Christ".

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I don't have a blipp what you're on about - so I can't agree with or disagree.

Okay.

Okay again. I just know that no part of the Word says I should call myself Deity or Christ.

Nice, thanks.

Cool.

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I appreciate to be addresed as joagbaje.

But You are right Inedi any knowledge seeking person going through the thread should be clear on this issue at least to a great extent. I have recieved several mails of appreciation for some of these expositions of deep truth. Execpt an insincere individual that will kep asking thesame babish questions over an over, . It is waste of my precious time. especially when Viaro said Matt 24 is talking about the church and not tribulation of Israel . The ignorance and arrogance displayed just put me off.

We are just scratching the surface , there are yet deeper things.What is so had to understand of our union with God and Christ.

Ephes. 4:13

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

John 1:16

And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

1 John 4:17

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Col. 2:9-10

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Ephes. 1:22-23

The church, Which is his body, the fulness of him

Ephes. 4:13

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

John 17:21-23

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Viaroooo ,if you are there can you read this scriptures again and explain your understanding.

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@ viaro,

There is noway we-christisns can relate with God with FAITH .Do you agree with me?

if you bible the bible and act accordingly the you (ACTION as a result of your believing)is what FAITH is.

whta WOF is saying is DO THE WORD PERIOD!

EXAMPLES:MARK 11:22-23-that is one of the reasons for confessions!

                   1 CORINTHIANS 5:17

                    EPH 5:1-2 ETC.

                   you see there is always a balance in this, and the parameter for the balance is not what you think or what others think

the parameter is THE WORD OF GOD-ACCORDING TO REVELATIONS.

AND THIS REVELATIONS ARE IN DEGREES

AND THIS DEGREES are BASED ON YOUR PERSONAL INTIMATE FELLOWSHIP WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

That ihe reason i suggested to you that you should take time out of your busy schedules,distractions from anywhere including NL and invest it in quality fellowship on the subject matter.

I personally i have done a research and i have THE BALANCE! by the spirit of God.

and all these arguement will end.

This advise is also for the NLers!

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pastor joe, please dont mind the likes of viaro, he has just fail to understand that what you dont know is biger than you and that and that as far as naira land is concern viaro is history .Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. {is skillful: Gr. hath no experience}

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. {of full age: or, perfect} {use: or, an habit, or, perfection}viaro is a babe.

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I was going to post a few before you spilled it all out in the other thread for "non-WOF" on Faith - my comments about your 'divinity' is there also.

Neither Psalm 82:7 nor Jeremiah 10:11 were penned down in the Bible by viaro. The inspired authors of those verses left you and your ilk a most important warning, which you will do well to heed.

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Me too! Indeed Jesus is God, so NEXT?

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@Joagbaje: Let me answer for viaro. YES. Jesus is God. NEXT!?

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Does this make you a Deity?

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I dont subscribe to mormon doctrines, The mormrons believe God was once a human being.That is a lie . It is against what the bible teaches, The gnostics have a form of truth but they dont have the truth. But what baffles me is that some of these false religion have some level of truth than some so called christians.

Let me help you out here. I was only using children language because of your level of understanding. Adam died instantly he ate the fruit. The death was not a physical death, Man is a spirit. God is a spirit, he created man a spirit also. he put man in physical clay. The body of clay is not the man. God didnt create man to live for only 1000 years. You are using your own head knowledge there. God created man to live for ever. Death was not Gods plan. Adam died spiritualy that day. Spiritual death is a separation from God.

That is why a man has to be born twice. The moment a man receives Christ ,life comes into him. Spiritual death was instant, and recieving life in Christ is intant also. You dont get born again gradually. God didnt teach on gradual death. or gradual salvation.

Everybody is born dead in sin. A man has to be born righteous also.

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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Go study your bible and stop spewing forth programmed responses.

opposite of what God wrote in the bible is of the devil!

I hope this meat is not too strong for you?

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The WOF message of claiming divinity for Christians continues to subtly filter through the teaching of WOF proponents. Sometimes when we ask these folks specific questions about their claims to deity or divinity, they will play games and forever be dodgy. Anyone who cares to know should see an example in Copeland's webpage advertising Bill Winston's book ~

"Understanding Our Divinity, Part III – Kingdom Mentality"

This is why I have been careful to ask questions specifically using the same terms - Deity and Divinity - that WOF teachers use to call themselves 'gods'.

There are other examples I could show in vids, audio clips and electronic publications where the specific term they use is "deity" and "divinity". When I ask questions with these same words, many WOF proponents play games and dribble round the question. Do we take such evasions to be indicative of the fact that they know that teaching is a heresy that has poisoned their faith?

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Please allow me borrow a quote from yours:

@Joagbaje, I quoted that ^^ for you just to make the point that you seriously need to address the previous issues that have been highlighted in the examples cited from WOF teachers. Even I am beginning to tire from these 'robot-mode repeating pre-programmed jargon' that some of us read in your defence of WOF doctrines. (thanks to nuella though, I really appreciate her frank answers).

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I shall do so in due course.

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@ viaro

If you really read Benniny Hinn and Kenyon books as you claim, I will like you to honestly say what it was they taught that change your perception.

thanks

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I dont believe in Mormonism or Gnosticm , But if they have any form of truth , it does happen. There are some form of truths here and there, even in other faith but that doesnt mean they know the truth.

There are different classes of use of the word God for man. If I may say;Those who have recieved his word. Those who are born of him and Those who by the virtue of knowledge  grow up into him.

In my earlier post ,I talked abot the use of the word god. I said God created man to rule over thee earth as a God(Elohim) That was Gods plan to Man.

Altheia said there is only one God. I agree with you. But where does Jesus fall and the holyghost? If you understand truth ,you will really know that Jesus was really your brother.

Well ,for these OT folks , the class of God they funtion in was far different from what Jesus brought to us as New creation in Christ. Adam was forbidden to eat of The tree of life . So all of them that came through him never partook of God's life.

That was why God sent the second Adam which also was last Adam ,Man's last hope.

John 1:4

   In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

This life is God's kind of life, his nature .

John 5:26

   For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Sonship with God goes beyond birth but it makes reference to maturity. We grow into sonship.It means just  like the father. The Son does what the father does. You  cant separate the father  from the Son.God is a judge , his Son must be a judge also.

[color=#990000]John 5:22-23

   For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

John 5:27

   And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the[b] Son of man( anthropos)[/b]. [/color]

This is not the the son trying to usurp authority but just becoming the fathers dream. We are to judge the world

John 5:30

   I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

So you see,It is one of the qualities of God and his Sons to judge.

1 Cor. 2:15

   But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Cor. 6:2-3

   Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? [3] Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

We are not trying to claim Gods glory here, he gave it to us. we just accept who we are ,thats all.

John 17:22

   And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

being born again is not an end but rather the begining, We need to grow in the knowledge of our didvinity. We are not of this world. If you believe you are of the world , you will be subject to the laws of this life, sickness and all. but when you wake up to the divine life within, you will be changed.

The life Jesus brougth to us is based on knowledge.Things cant change until there is a renewal of the mind by the word of God. We have divinity as our nature in him.

2 Peter 1:4

   Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

John 17:14

   I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:16

   They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Whats he talking about here.A divine life that trascend human  (anthropos) life. We have divine nature and its only a message like this that will get you to function in it. That is why Jesus said those who believe this truth, " if they drink any deadly thing , it would not hurt them". How many Christians today have died of poisoning, Why? because they know not and they understood not. and they walsed on in darkness.

This is the message that will prepare the church for the rapture. We must grow into him in all areas as his sons

Ephes. 4:15

   But speaking the truth in love, may[b] grow up into him in all things,[/b] which is the head, even Christ:

Ephes. 4:13

   Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This can only take place through knowlegde. the life is knowledge based.

John 17:3

   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John so much meditated on the teaching of Christ ,he was the closest apostle to Jesus , his writings were different. He understood the message of this life. Read the gospel of John allover and his epistle . he medidtated so much on this life in christ to the extent that it became hard for him to die.evn though he wanted to die, he couldnt. We are not playing religion here. We a divine but there is need for growth in that truth.

1 Cor. 3:3

   For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?[ Anthropos]  

He has brought us to the place of union with Godhead!

John 17:21-22

   That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

What the church need in this age is the knowledge of who we are.If you understand this , you can work miracles easily, cast out devils easily. Ask those people in those anti faith websites can they cast out devils? Mba!

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@nuella2,

Thank you so much for your reply. Let me outline my answers:

1. I agree with you that no Christian is deity - that is the point I have been trying to highlight in this thread for those who have been going by the doctrines of WOF proponents and teachers, some of whom we have identified.

2. Since no Christian is a deity, it should be plain then that no Christian can 'create' anything or bring things into existence in just the same way that God brings creation into existence.

3. No Christian will thus think of himself or herself as deity as God is Deity; because to think of becoming like God exactly as He is ('Deity'), is tantamount 'having the nature of the devil', as you said (and I agree).

Consequently, I would like to point out again that these three features above are part of what identify those we have often referred to in examples of WOF teachers: Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch, etc, - they have declared that:

        ~~ they cannot be human

        ~~ they are God and divinity

        ~~ they can create just like God can create

        ~~ there is no difference at all between them and God

For others who might been agreeing with the doctrines taught by these WOF teachers and proponents, we ask you to be careful what you're buying into. Cheers.

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@ viaro and Altheia , The anti faith websites you guys are visiting has clouded your mind from the truth. Those websites are Satanic, false brethren. How can someone be teaching against faith and authority of the believers.

God told Adam he would die if he ate the fruit. So did he die? God said he would die that very day , So did he die that very day? Did God lie?.

God spoke in the language the man would understand. Adam was not a perfect man ( I mean maturity) Bible schollars call that time. Dispensation of innocense. He was not yet matured or trained.You tell a little child that blade is dangerous ,going to the road is dangerous. Some mothers tells their little girls that playing with boys will get them pregnant , without explaining details because the innocent child would not understant details . So you give them rules: don't go out. Don't touch razorblade. That doesn't make razor bad. It was not the content of the fruit that was the problem but the disobedience. He ate it at the Devil's command but not at God's command. The fruit was actually meant for man but he ate it prematurely.I don't know how many months or years they were in the garden under training . But God had told them to reproduce children . How come they did not? Why did he put them only in a garden when his desire was for them to replenish the entire earth? For all the days , weeks or months they were confined in that garden they didn't touch each other, they did not even know they were Unclad! Why ? It was not time . They were to judge angels and other fallen beings As God but they didn't even know good and evil. ( justice)

Heb 5:14

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

You can seen that the ability to jugde good and evil is a mark of maturity and not negative.The secret of their producing children is in the fruit. The secret of the knowledge of judgement was in it too. They still had tree of life to eat after their maturity but God had to prevent them from eating the other tree of life . He had to sent them out because if they had proceeded in their fallen nature to go ahead and eat of the tree of life , man will remain in that fallen state perpetually . There would be no salvation or redemption . God had to prepare another Adam as man's last hope JESUS. To take back for us what the devil stole. How come it is easier for you to accept the devil as god of this world and cannot accept the people that it was meant for.God gave back the whole world to us through Abtaham. If you are seed of Abraham you own the world. Joint heirs with Christ.

Rom 4:13

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

@Viaro and Aletheia :A word of advise, Your criticism of teachers of faith are based on those nonsence sites you're quoting from. Why don't you do an independent research yourself . Have you read any Benny Hinn books or Kenyon? If you do, your perception will change. If you visit anti bible site and you've not read the bible, you may call Christians fools.

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No christian is deity like God to receive worship,praise and adoration and will never be in that class. And deities are also immortal which we have not yet achieved, until christ comes. When a christian say he is god he do not mean people should worship him like God almighty. But he is talking about the nature he has which is supernatural(his spirit been recreated after the image of God) that make him god, like the bible say, but not God almighty. Is a class that the christian belong to, which is superior to the natural man(non believer) because of the holy ghost that resides in him. But not deity in the sense like God almighty, to know all things and create maybe a new sun, NO. But it means we are sons of the most high. No christian will ever think of becoming God almighty that will mean he has the nature of the devil, who wanted to be like God almighty to recieve praise and adored.

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Before now I had thought that you were maybe a Christian brother gone astray, but it is evident to me that you are no Christian but a neo-gnostic with shades of Mormon mythology thrown in.

You imply that God intended Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? You are under a strong delusion for no where does the bible say what you say above.

You in fact say the direct opposite of what God reveals in his word thus showing that you are most certainly not a follower of Jesus Christ.

So you are saying that God didn't really mean it when He told Adam that "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". What difference is there between what you said from the serpent's:

Who is it that opposes God? You know the answer to that.

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@ Jaffi, fynguy, joagbaje and mba emeka, can i please have your email addresses as there is an article i need to send to your boxes. will be waiting, thanks

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Word of Faith = Gnosticism

GNOSIS is a Greek work that means knowledge, in particular, "Revelation knowledge", hidden truths that are revealed supernaturally to the initiate. The Gnostics of old had certain central beliefs and these are now coming to the surface again today."

DEFINITION

The "Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church" defines gnosticism thus:

A religious movement in which central importance was attached to the gnosis, or revelation knowledge, of God and of the origin and destiny of mankind. The source of this special gnosis or knowledge was held to be either the Apostles from whom it was derived by a secret tradition, or by a direct revelation."

HERETICAL DOCTRINES

The goal was to attain self-awareness as a spiritual being, and god-consciousness. The true world is spirit, and the material realm is a snare from which we must escape. All men possess a divine spark, a part of the divine being, which fell from the transcendent realm into the material universe, and was imprisoned in human bodies. Reawakened by knowledge, the divine element in humanity can return to its proper home in the transcendent spiritual realm. Gnostics knew nothing of the redemption of the body. Their hope was in the transformation of the soul! Characteristic of the gnostic teaching was that the material creation was antagonistic to what is truly spiritual, but that each man had a spark or seed of the divine substance within (Pelegianism). Through the secret doctrines and the rites associated with them, this divine spark might be rescued from its evil material environment and be reunited with the divine.

Here's how Christian Gnostics explained the phenomenon of Jesus Christ:

The "christ spirit" simply inhabited the body of the man Jesus. The christ spirit had come to teach man the gnosis whereby he could free himself from bondage to the evil material world. Some even taught that Jesus did not actually have a body of flesh, but was pure spirit. Thus the ideas of physical death and resurrection were denied by the gnostics.

Those who are modern day gnostics in the Church would be people the Word-Faith movement.

Word-Faith Gnostic Teachings

The Word-Faith movement is very Gnostic in many ways, and it comes out of the New Thought Movement.

New Thought Movement

The movement originated in 19th Century New England, and is now worldwide. New Thought includes Divine Science, Religious Science (Science of Mind), Seicho-No-Ie, Unity, and other groups. From its early writings to its current use of process philosophy, it consciously has incorporated Eastern and Western insights. Phineas Parkhurst Quimby generally is recognized as the "Father of New Thought." He transmitted his views to Warren Felt Evans, Mary Baker Eddy, and Julius and Annetta Dresser. Essek Kenyon was another New Thought teacher, and Kenneth Hagin used Kenyon's ideas almost verbatim. Kenneth Copeland and all other Word-Faith teachers trace their roots back to Hagin and Kenyon. Another strain of new thought is to be found in the Norman Vincent Peale adherents of the "positive confession" movement. His followers were Robert Schuller and many others.

HERETICAL DOCTRINES

New Thought is a popular application of philosophical idealism, optimistic mental discipline, and the practice of the presence of God in healing and in daily living. New Thought metaphysics in its various forms combines (1) Hindu-like pantheism in the denial of objective material reality and (2) Western, largely Christian, recognition of the reality of the world as divine creation, with matter a name for certain mental experiences. NT was influenced by quantum physics as well as philosophy and Process New Thought. Each new experience co-creates itself with God by blending the influence of the past with individually-tailored divine guidance: PAST + DIVINE PROPOSAL (God's offer of perfection as expressible in that situation) + CHOICE = NEW CREATION. All creating is co-creating; there was no original creation.

Word-Faith Movement

", it can be shown that Word of Faith does hold to gnosticism in some degree: the true man is spirit, not flesh; we can rise above sin, sickness and even death, to a life of the spirit; we can overcome this fallen world - not by the life of Jesus, the Tree of Life, but by the Tree of hidden Wisdom, through the possession and use of words - which have creative power to release us from the material world; ultimately we become so glorified that we are transformed into spiritual-beings." (Tricia Tillin, THE NEW THING - Part One. Global Revival as the Key Element In Deception in Twentieth Century Pentecostalism, 1997

Benny Hinn

"Are you ready for some real revelation knowledge, you are god" (Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape # AO31190-1)

Word-Faith Movement (Prosperity Doctrine/Positive Confession)

BRIEF HISTORY

Word-Faith is the fastest-growing movement within the professing church. It has involved two distinct but closely related factions: the Peale/Schuller Positive/Possibility thinkers, with their roots in New Thought, and the Hagin/Copeland Positive Confession and Word-Faith groups, which have their roots in E.W. Kenyon, William Branham, and the Manifest Sons of God/Latter Rain Movement. (Charismatic Chaos , p. 281).

Though popular today, but it coexisted with, and grew out of the Latter Rain movement. It tends to be predominantly trinitarian, as opposed to the Latter Rain movement, but holds to the primary doctrines put forward by William Branham, and most leaders in this movement uphold Branham as a man of God or prophet. (Christianity in Crisis, Hank Hanegraaf, Harvest House, 1993)

HERETICAL DOCTRINES

Because of the diverse nature of the movement, the doctrines listed below are representative of those held widely or predominantly throughout the leadership of the movement.

- Christians are "gods", and therefore do not need to ask "in God's will", but rather use our own divinity to speak what we want into being.

- We are lacking faith if we are not healthy and wealthy. (God intended for us to be rich and healthy).

- Men are capable of saving themselves.

- Belief in faith as a "force" capable of being used for good or evil.

- Use of faith-force to change reality or to create through visualization

- God is unable to operate within the earth realm without our help

- Use of words (negative) releases Satan's power, while words (positive) release God's power.

- See Also Manifest Sons of God; and William Branham. (Christianity in Crisis, Hank Hanegraaff, Harvest House, 1993)

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bros, Jaffi, fynguy, joagbaje and sis mabell

religousity hasnt changed much. people are still the same, the message we preach is not meant for the "know it alls" their experience counts more than anything to them. let them believe what they want to. i have always said that the greatest theologian i know is satan yet he is still a devil.

Jesus was never offended when anybody treated him as God almighty, we know the people who were: the pharisees, sadducees and the scribes.

They would always resort to name calling and its sort.

CAN THEY PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION FYNGUY PUT UP?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A PARTAKER OF THE DIVINE NATURE?

REMEMBER JOHN THE BELOVED WAS ALSO CALLED JOHN THE DIVINE, WAS GOD OFFENDED?

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^^^Well said.

There are similarities between WoF claims to divinity and certain Mormom beliefs.

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Faith simply means that you believe that you pray and believe that God can do it.

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. . . and this is the summary of this entire thread . . .

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Viaro,

Your problem is that the statement is strong meat to you.

You need to understand what he meant by ''God of this world''. If I called my self ''The sibling of Jesus Christ'', I'm sure you would call it heresy, as it would appear there's no direct use of ''sibling'' in the scripture to describe my status.

''God of this world'' refers to one who has the God-sanctioned authority to rule over the world! Adam was in this stead until he lost it to Satan.

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digha.mabel@yahoo.com

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Viaro

lol

You can be sure I won't allow this to degenerate into an unnecessary argument with you. I have only pointed out the mistakes many christians make.

It was on this same religious forum that Kunle Oshob opened a thread that sought to belittle the word ''Born again'', by claiming that the word was not usually used in the bible.

I don't think we should allow unprofitable semantics to becloud biblical connotations.

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Where did you read the bold part in Scripture? Do people have to force such falsehoods all in the name of a WOF argument?

If you cannot find any verse in Scripture referring to Adam as 'God', are you not confirming the fact that heresy is at the root of your theology as much as is characteristic of the WOF movement?

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Good talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a partaker of his divine nature.

Glory to God.

am a god and i reign in this life.Glory be to God.

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YE ARE GODS

There is difference between lucifer trying to be like God and Man who God has made in his image. Adam was created in the image and likeness to function like God . As a matter of fact Adam was created to be God of this world.

But he lost the glory before he could finish his training.so Adam did not fully mature in the image of God.

Psalm 115:16

The heaven, [even] the heavens, [are] the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Man was creted to be superior to Satan and angels. Satan had angelic power but Adamic authority God gave man was higher than angelic power. When Satan made Adam fall, he took over Adamic power, that was what made Satan "God of this world".

2Cor 4:3,4

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Satan began to function in Adamic power.That was why he could come into the presence of God in Job. Because Adamic power was superior to angelic power.He knew the potential of man but helped him destroy it. He did not lie to eve in a sense.

Gen 3:5[/b]

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This was Gods plan for man to function in the class of God as sons . God didnt deny the fact.

Gen 3:22

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The Adamic power lucifer gained made it impossible for man to defeat him  and made it impossible for angels to defeat him either. Angel micheal once defeated lucifer in heaven but when Satan gained Adamic power micheal could not stand him because now he had a higher authority . Remember the scenario when he was sent to prevent Satan from stealing the body of Moses. He couldn't fight him as he did before , he had to use a higher name. Angels don't toy with spiritual authority. He treated Satan with respect!

Jude 1:8

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

But this authority belong to man. Except that he lost it prematurely to Satan.That was why when Jesus came as our representative being the second Adam ,Satan had the audacity to demand worship.

Luke 4:5,6

And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

And  said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me . ; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

But what he didn't know was that Jesus came as a new Adam , he didn't have the nature of sin . He was a son of God. The term used for sonship denotes class. A son of God means "In the class of God" Adam was also called Son of God.

Luke 3:38

Adam, which was [the son] of God.

Dogs gives birth to dogs, monkey gives birth to monkey, God gave birth to his likeness.

1John 5:4

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

Anything that comes from God is God . The word of God is God. When the word of God comes to you , It makes you in his likeness. If you are born again , you become as holy as God is , as righteous as he is because you have his nature .

IJohn 4:17 

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world  .

The jews understood this  when Jesus said he was son of God , it meant equality with the father. They were mad.

[color=#990000]John 10:34,35

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

David said prophetically in psalms " ye are gods but ye shall die like men" he explained the reason in the preceding verses . He said because they knew not , they understood not , they walk on in darkness.That is why they die like men.

It important to know that a new creation In christ right now has atttained what Adam couldn't attain. He is superior to Adam, he is superior to Satan . He is a partaker of the life and nature of God the father .

1pet1:4

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,

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Good point bro,

we as Christians are not suppose to accept the praises of men or allow it get to our heads-watch out for pride!

but that does not mean that we should not take our place of divinity-gods and act like one 'cos the whole waiteth for the manifastionns of the sons of God.

you know what am talking about!

Back to faith,do you believe in faithwalk?

you can't get so much done without it anyways!

i have basketful testimonies thru this tool call faith.

and when i talk about faith i mean not just faith to get material things but for spiritual development.

How do u get to pray for those that deliberately wronged you-by faith.

to respond to God's word must/is by faith.

Give offering is by faith

praying is by faith

forgiving by faith

loving is by faith

patience is by faith.what have you?think on anything in the kingdom it must be by FAITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My brother WOF is needed.

check it out.

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Faith is the belief in God and all that he stands for, Simple!

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Proud swelling and arrogant words. I am waiting for mba_emeka to show up here to lend support to Jaffi and Joagbaje. So you are god. Interesting how we have come full cycle from the garden of Eden. You are of your father the devil who tempted Eve with this same words.

As Viaro rightly pointed out:

Our confession is this:

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@jaffi,

No problem, I can afford to forget small or big letters in any language on the subject. However, my reference to the gods of 'small letter g' is informed by the fact that such a notion is the popular teaching of many WOF proponents such as Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch of TBN, and several others. Do you care to show us your position on such teachings - whether you agree with them or disagree?

The question of John 10:34 is open to anyone's interpretation howsoever they may choose. Not that I applaud all sorts of interpretations; but I tend to hold the view that - (a) the Lord Jesus in that verse was not affirming deity or divinity for any human being in His audience (Christian, Jewish or otherwise); (b) as well the point in verse 38 summing up what exactly He wanted to convey.

In other verses within that same John's Gospel, it is evident that He affirmed His Deity (John 5:23) without making any reference anywhere that Christians were to function the same in essence and nature in such pointers to His Deity.

Let me assure you that my aim is not to fight what Jesus said; but rather that we all try and understand what He meant by any statement He made.

It is clear that there is a fundamental reason why it is written several times that the disciples did not understand what Jesus was saying at various instances (eg., Mark 9:32; Luke 2:50 and 18:34); and it was not until after His resurrection that He opened their understanding that they might understand the scripture (Luke 24:45). In the same manner, we should not just go by the sound of the words in John 10:34 without seeking to understand what He was saying. Whatever reference we might attach to it, it is clear that He certainly was not affirming deity for any man in His audience there.

I don't see anything anywhere in Hebrews 2 saying that God has given any position of 'god' or 'deity' to any Christian. Could you kindly show me where the contrary might've been said in that same passage?

They also condemned Him more on His confession that He is the Son of God (see John 10:36 and 19:7).

I have not denied what Jesus said in John 10:34 - but the difference is that I categorically deny the WOF proponents' confession on that verse that Christians are therefore 'deity' (Jeremiah 10:11).

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jaffi

May God open your eyes. Here is psalm 82:6-7 together:

So which part is talking to different people?

As I said, may God help you!

As for you Joagbaje, God will deliver you from heresy, from the brainwashing that you have received and from the latterly revealed arrogance with which you are trying to mislead others into your heresy.

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@ttalks

wonderful drawing . I will like to see your drawing of the Godhead too!

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@viaro,

we are not saying small 'g' or big 'G'.FORGET ALPHABETS!!!The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life.

but functioning in his class even Jesus Christ our lord quoted this scriptures to the john 10:34.

suggest u read from verse 30.

religion will fight this like what you are doing now.

read Heb 2 and see the position God gave man.

they wanted to stone Jesus imagine!

why because He said ,He and His father are ONE!

THEY COULDN'T TAKE IT JUST LIKE YOU CAN'T TAKE THE FACT THE WE(CHRISTIANS) ARE GODS!SO THEY WANTED TO STONE HIM.

WHY ARE SO DIFFERENT?

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I don't mean to be a damper here; but whenever a believer quotes Psalm 82 and trying to affirm a 'god-status' for a Christian, I wonder if they also read the very next verse: "But ye shall die like men" (verse 7)?

However, Scripture testifies again and again that as to Deity and Divinity, we as Christians believe in one God (1 Cor. 8:6).

Furthermore, I hear many WOF teachers saying that the only difference between God and the born-again Christian is that God is spelt with a big 'G' and we are small 'g'. That says nothing at all - for there are indeed many, many differences between the only God and believers anywhere and anytime. An example: the prophet Jeremiah long ago said, "The [b]g[/b]ods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens" (Jer. 10:11).

Let's be careful about the WOF movement: it is not every colour of yellow that is 'gold'.

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Psalm 82 the latter part was talking about you-that don't believe in that ye are gods

he said you shall die like mere men.

sickness

diseases

lack and want

etc

all those thing that are not meant for the children of God but,those that don't believe or function in this reality will suffer the same economic depressions,diseases sickness etc others suffer.

as for revelation knowledge?

has God revealed anything to you before?

Do u have the holy Ghost inside of you?i know you do if Jesus is your lord so question what is the ministry of the Spirit of God?

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The word of God is word of faith.

Romans 10:8

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

If anyone have a problem with word of faith, the person is simply ignorant and know not scriptures.

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You are wrong on many levels but I will deal with only one and just refer to another briefly.

OK you believe you are a "god" because of Psalm 82:6, right?

OK Psalm 82:6 says

You believe that Psalm 82:6 is referring to you, right?

OK then but the speech directed to "YOU" continues in Psalm 82:7 and says this:

Do you still think the passage is saying that "YOU" are a god ---- a god that shall die like a man and fall like one of the princes?

Now, who do you think is "lazy" and has not studied the scriptures; could it be YOU ---- which makes it easy for charlatan "pastors" to brainwash you?

The second point I will deal with is your reference to "revelation knowledge". What you do not realise is that "revelation knowledge" is code that "pastors" use to deceive you by saying "God told me"; "God revealed to me" ----- when they are just spouting the evil from their hearts with which they brainwash you.

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Paul gave us a good one, in chapter one; Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. One can also define faith as the response of man's spirit to the word of God.

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